Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 AM - Re: small file Blank series V weight and balance (John Anderson)
2. 04:19 AM - Re: Spark Plug Wires (Barry West)
3. 04:46 AM - Trying to find Paul Liedl (Paul Seehafer)
4. 06:36 AM - Re: Trying to find Paul Liedl (Richard Rabbers)
5. 07:27 AM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (Noel Loveys)
6. 07:28 AM - Re: Spark Plug Wires (Lowell Fitt)
7. 07:39 AM - Re: Trying to find Paul Liedl (Richard Rabbers)
8. 07:44 AM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (Noel Loveys)
9. 07:44 AM - Re: thanks (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
10. 07:59 AM - Gross weight on floats (Richard Rabbers)
11. 09:27 AM - Re: Gross weight on floats (Noel Loveys)
12. 10:47 AM - Wow!! (Lowell Fitt)
13. 10:49 AM - Re: Gross weight on floats (Richard Rabbers)
14. 11:33 AM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (Bob Unternaehrer)
15. 12:36 PM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (PWilson)
16. 02:19 PM - Re: Spark Plug Wires (Jimmie Blackwell)
17. 02:39 PM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (Bob Unternaehrer)
18. 03:57 PM - Kitfox IV and 912ULS installation (Terry Hughes)
19. 04:00 PM - Re: Spark Plug Wires (Don Smythe)
20. 04:22 PM - Re: New Member (Lynn Matteson)
21. 04:29 PM - Re: Door Struts (Lynn Matteson)
22. 04:45 PM - Re: Little help with windshield please. (Lynn Matteson)
23. 04:52 PM - Re: Kitfox IV and 912ULS installation (Lowell Fitt)
24. 05:53 PM - Re: ENGINE MOUNT (Jimmie Blackwell)
25. 05:56 PM - Wrong Address (Jimmie Blackwell)
26. 06:19 PM - Re: Little help with windshield please. (Dave G.)
27. 07:14 PM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (Noel Loveys)
28. 07:27 PM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (Noel Loveys)
29. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Gross weight on floats (Noel Loveys)
30. 07:55 PM - Re: ENGINE MOUNT (Mark Thompson)
31. 08:01 PM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (John Anderson)
32. 08:26 PM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks (Lowell Fitt)
33. 09:03 PM - GPS Units (Steve Wilson)
34. 09:55 PM - Re: GPS Units (Mark Thompson)
35. 10:32 PM - Re: GPS Units (Marwynne)
36. 11:57 PM - USA. was: Door Struts (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | small file Blank series V weight and balance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
No Mark, I made then out of blade tape. Cut strips 90mmwide and overlapped
about 30mm and stuck together. Then I had a strip approx 135mm wide with a
sticky bit opposite sides on each edge. Cut out holes for the strut mounting
bolts as stuck on while the elevator was in the level position. Clear as
mud, perhaps you can work it out from the picture.
John
From: "Mark Thompson" <kr2@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: small file Blank series V weight and balance
Thanks John for the pics of the gap seals,this is the way I need to
go.......Did you get this from spruce?
Thanks Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: John Anderson
Sent: 8/12/2006 7:51:33 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: small file Blank series V weight and balance
I find that gap seals make quite a improvement.
From: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: small file Blank series V weight and balance
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
I think we had a similar discussion a while back. Try closing the gaps on
the elevator with clear tape, as seen on the Sportflight pics. While I can't
confirm a huge change on mine, others swear by it for getting elevator
effectiveness. I noticed an improvement, but nothing radical.
Also, a forward CG is a classic scenario of running out of elevator at low
speeds (in the flare). As the CG moves aft, the elevator gets move
authority, but it also gets more sensitive to small inputs at higher speeds.
Eventually it will get uncontrol lable. Forward is better than aft, but
you'd
be relegated to wheel landings.
Airplanes have loading limits, i.e., limited fuel with two passengers, etc.
You might want to check your W&B and see how different loadings affect you.
If you've not looked at it that way, you might be surprised.
My 2 runs out of elevator really quick with flap landings, but the gap seals
helped a little. Going from memory, a test I read showed that even a small
gap in a control surface reduces control effectiveness by as much as 30%. Hi
pressure always seeks low pressure, and it flows very nicely through that
gap. Thereby that air leak is not working for you.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Thompson
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: small file Blank series V weigh t and balance
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Thompson" <kr2@earthlink.net>
Hi Kurt,I am also having a hard time with full elevator control for a stal
landing,I am landing with no flaps and seem to flair high and then
drop...no bounces yet lol...,I am flying with 2 200lb pilots and 26gal fuel
so I know Im heavy,but can we get more elevator authority?
Thanks for your input.........Kitfox4..N61AC
Mark.
>[Original Message]
>From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Date: 8/8/2006 9:27:31 PM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: small file Blank series V weight and balance
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>I can confirm it is true on my S-5 for over 50% flaps
>and FWD CG. I run out of trim at around 60 knots and
>no fla ps. Still can get enough elevator until 1/2
>flaps. After that it is difficult to get the tail
>down with FWD CG. Just never saw it in a note before.
>
>Kurt S.
>
>--- AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Attached is subject page from SERIES V POH page 2-4.
> > I found a way to reduce
> > it from 2.4mb to 266.4KB. Hope I can figure a way to
> > repeat it for future
> > X-MSN.
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> > <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> > What was the source of the note? First I have seen
> > that.
> >
> > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
> >
> > --- AMuller589@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > ...... An associated note said
> > >
> > > " NOT E: it is recommended that flap deflection be
> > > limited to (unspecified)
> > > notch on Series V tail draggers when operating at
> > CG
> > > stations forward of 11.70
> > > inch. The aircraft may not be able to achieve a
> > > three point attitude upon
> > > landing at extreme forward CG stations with full
> >
_________________________________________________________________
Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals
http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid 0731
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plug Wires |
Jeff, this doesn't sound right. I am not looking at my wires right now
but I think they are all molded together and into the coil.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: jeff puls
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plug Wires
I'm doing my annual inspection. It has been ten years since I have had
my Classic IV certified. I'm replacing everything. I called Lockwood
today and gave them the part number for new spark plug wires. They said
they sell it by the MM. Anyone know how much to order? I have a 912UL.
Thanks, Jeff Classic IV
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Trying to find Paul Liedl |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Hey Gang,
I have a friend that wants to talk to Paul Liedl from Minnesota (Paul has a
Model V w/IO-240 on Murphy amphibs) but I have lost his phone number and
e-mail address. Anyone have it? Or Paul, are you lurking out there?
Paul Seehafer
av8rps@tznet.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trying to find Paul Liedl |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
>From a 2003 post on this list..
Paul Liedl - liedlp@infionline.net
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54920#54920
Message 5
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| Subject: | Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
PRC also used to seal the wet wings of several larger planes, not to mention
the seams of floats as they are being built.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark R Miller
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 12:12 PM
> To: kitfox-list@xenia.matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
> <markrmiller@cableone.net>
>
> Michel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > Michel,
>
> Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
> BD-4And 5) the
> fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and weeped a lot.
> So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing panels
> together.
> It is not a sloshing compound.
> It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
> It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
> orther modern kit
> aircraft.
>
> Mak Miller
>
>
>
> > My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
> do not use
> > alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
> sure I wouldn,t
> > want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
> containing mo-gas.
> > I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
> want to do it
> > again or make that twice if the Thiakol material doesn't work.
> >
> > ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
> there is a BD-4
> > thread recommending the material in the metal wing
> conversion. I don't
> > know which fuel they use.
> >
> > Lowell
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> <michel@online.no>
> >>
> >> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
> but on the
> >> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
> >>
> >> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
> Military use a
> >> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
> >>
> >> Then later,
> >>
> >> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and maintenance
> >> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
> might search on
> >> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
> the 2 is the pot
> >> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
> >>
> >> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
> about that
> >> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
> informant, the spy,
> >> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Michel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plug Wires |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Barry, The wires are threaded into the coil and the terminals. There are
threaded spikes in both and the wire can be twisted counter-clockwise out
and inserted opposite. The diameter is the important part. I replaced mine
several years ago.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:21 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plug Wires
Jeff, this doesn't sound right. I am not looking at my wires right now but
I think they are all molded together and into the coil.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: jeff puls
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plug Wires
I'm doing my annual inspection. It has been ten years since I have had my
Classic IV certified. I'm replacing everything. I called Lockwood today and
gave them the part number for new spark plug wires. They said they sell it
by the MM. Anyone know how much to order? I have a 912UL. Thanks, Jeff
Classic IV
===================================
===================================
===================================
===================================
===================================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Trying to find Paul Liedl |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
A more current address (1/9/06):
shoeless@barefootpilot
------
In searching I found some interesting reading on floats, gross weight related to,
etc.
I'll start a new topic and raise the gross wt. subject shortly.
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54941#54941
Message 8
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| Subject: | Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I'm another one who hates to keep harping on the dangers of ethanol in
fibreglass tanks. The worst part of the whole deal is that on this
continent ethanol is neither green or economical unless you can rate it in
votes per gallon.
Thee is a fellow flying an Avid on the avid group who was flying in
California where they have 10% ethanol. He said he didn't have any problems
but he was premixing his fuel. Recently he swapped out his trusty R582 for
a brand spankin' new Jab 2200. He is using a bit of "Top Lube" premixed
into his tanks with good results so far.
There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers octane
rating of the fuel.
BTW the only good thing about ethanol is it does increase the octane rating
of gasoline. (oct110)
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WBL
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:18 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
>
> I have posted this in the past. I had a bad experience
> several ago whin I put autofuel in my KF-Classic 4, flew for
> an hour or more then put it in the hangar for a couple of
> weeks. When I returned from a business trip I went out to
> the hangar (at a public use airport) and discovered fuel
> dripping out the tail and beyond the hangar. All of the
> militar spec hoses had melted and were leaking! I have since
> replaced all of the mil spec hoses with sae hoses and have
> had no more problems. Many states are now mandating ethnol
> to replace MBTE. Be careful! KF-2KM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Mark R Miller <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> >Sent: Aug 14, 2006 7:42 AM
> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
> <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> >
> >Michel
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >>
> >> Michel,
> >
> >Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
> BD-4And 5) the
> >fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and weeped a lot.
> >So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing
> panels together.
> >It is not a sloshing compound.
> >It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
> >It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
> orther modern kit
> >aircraft.
> >
> >Mak Miller
> >
> >
> >
> >> My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
> do not use
> >> alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
> sure I wouldn,t
> >> want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
> containing mo-gas.
> >> I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
> want to do it
> >> again or make that twice if the Thiakol material doesn't work.
> >>
> >> ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
> there is a BD-4
> >> thread recommending the material in the metal wing
> conversion. I don't
> >> know which fuel they use.
> >>
> >> Lowell
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
> >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> >>
> >>
> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> <michel@online.no>
> >>>
> >>> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
> but on the
> >>> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
> >>>
> >>> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
> Military use a
> >>> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
> >>>
> >>> Then later,
> >>>
> >>> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and
> maintenance
> >>> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
> might search on
> >>> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
> the 2 is the pot
> >>> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
> >>>
> >>> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
> about that
> >>> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
> informant, the spy,
> >>> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Michel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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|
Mark, I just used clear contact paper from one of the "Big Box" home stores.
It is sold as shelf liner. Mine has been in place for 8 years now without any
obvious deterioration or discoloration.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mark Thompson" <kr2@earthlink.net>
I would like to thank all you guys for your help and support to my questions,this
is an awsome group and we all are trying to achieve the same goals......fly.........
Thanks...Mark N61AC
Mark Thompson
kr2@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
<html><body>
<DIV>Mark, I just used clear contact paper from one of the "Big Box" home
stores. It is sold as shelf liner. Mine has been in place for 8 years
now without any obvious deterioration or discoloration.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Mark Thompson"
<kr2@earthlink.net> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
<P>
<DIV>I would like to thank all you guys for your help and support to my questions,this
is an awsome group and we all are trying to achieve the same goals......fly.........</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Thanks...Mark N61AC</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mark Thompson</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:kr2@earthlink.net">kr2@earthlink.net</A></DIV>
<DIV>EarthLink Revolves Around You.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P></P><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Gross weight on floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
Hello float flyers.
Having a model 1 with gross of 850#... I'm the tiny kid on the block.
I've not yet mounted my 'good as new' FL-1220 floats.. (the ones that Joel Mapes
helped with by doing a pre-purchase visual, thanks again Joel!)..or flown on
wheels on this plane but am pursuing float mounts.
SO far my kitfox purchase has lead me to this group and has served one intended
purpose.... reducing stress by getting my head out in the clouds.... I'd been
about 5 years without flying. After I purchased my model one I got my tailwheel
endorsement and float rating.
I've learned that the model 2 has some beefier wings and 100# higher gross. I took
my first Kitfox flight in a model V on full lotus floats and understood that
we were just under gross wt. (two guys at or just under 200#)
I'm working on lowering my personal gross but progress is slow.. and am also working
to trim or minimize float mount weight.
I assume that the angle of incidence would help the floats 'fly' and assist the
wing structural load (understanding that the floats would be adding drag with
higher incidence)
The certified gross is 850# - the builder mounted the plane on floats at some early
point - though did not pass along a log or notes. He had a Rotax 532. The
last owner installed a 618 so power should be pretty good.
I'm not sure if I can (as other than builder):
1- increase the gross wt.
2- be safe at a slighty higher gross wt.
I'd welcome any comments.
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54953#54953
Message 11
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| Subject: | Gross weight on floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I'm in a similar boat! Just a different float.... Aerocet 1100s
My model III-A has a gross weight of 950#. So far the closest I've come to
that is in the neighbourhood of 900#. I've been told that when my plane was
sold as a kit Denney was trying to sell the same kit in Japan and their
requirements stated a max of 950#. Shortly after my kit was delivered the
plane with a slightly wider fuselage was sold with a 1050 gross.
A Transport Canada Inspector told me I because in Canada these kits are
considered Amateur Built (similar to experimental) the builder or owner can
designate the gross weight or make any changes he wants. TC needs to be
informed of any changes and a new data plate needs to be attached to the
plane. A flight test may be required... ROC etc. His exact words were
"It's only a number don't worry about it". So I don't worry about it......
I worry about my insurance ;^}
BTW I am flying on a 582 grey head upgraded and a "B" box with an Ivo
in-flight adjustable prop. Take off run is short and climb is around
800'/min initial. To be honest I haven't tried to pull a full power stall
on floats to see how fast it will climb.
I think you will find your floats very adaptable... They can land on the
shallowest waters, snow, ice and even on wet grass. Lots of the guys around
here who have them regularly fly off snow and ice.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Rabbers
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:29 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Gross weight on floats
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers"
> <rira1950@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello float flyers.
>
> Having a model 1 with gross of 850#... I'm the tiny kid on the block.
>
> I've not yet mounted my 'good as new' FL-1220 floats.. (the
> ones that Joel Mapes helped with by doing a pre-purchase
> visual, thanks again Joel!)..or flown on wheels on this plane
> but am pursuing float mounts.
>
> SO far my kitfox purchase has lead me to this group and has
> served one intended purpose.... reducing stress by getting my
> head out in the clouds.... I'd been about 5 years without
> flying. After I purchased my model one I got my tailwheel
> endorsement and float rating.
>
> I've learned that the model 2 has some beefier wings and 100#
> higher gross. I took my first Kitfox flight in a model V on
> full lotus floats and understood that we were just under
> gross wt. (two guys at or just under 200#)
>
> I'm working on lowering my personal gross but progress is
> slow.. and am also working to trim or minimize float mount weight.
>
> I assume that the angle of incidence would help the floats
> 'fly' and assist the wing structural load (understanding that
> the floats would be adding drag with higher incidence)
>
> The certified gross is 850# - the builder mounted the plane
> on floats at some early point - though did not pass along a
> log or notes. He had a Rotax 532. The last owner installed a
> 618 so power should be pretty good.
>
> I'm not sure if I can (as other than builder):
> 1- increase the gross wt.
> 2- be safe at a slighty higher gross wt.
>
> I'd welcome any comments.
>
> --------
> Richard in SW Michigan
> Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54953#54953
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I am posting this to get a count of how many times it makes the circuit to
the KF list. I think something is amis in Cyberland.
Lowell
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Gross weight on floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
Noel,
Thanks for your note.
It will help me some to get my 'feet wet' - then I can develop a feel for things.
I'll read up on FAA regarding gross wt. changes.
More than once I've felt dissappointment for buying a model vs. 2-3 or 4. More
times than that... for not getting it flying by now!
Thanks to you and others I'm able to enjoy reading of challanges and adventures.
- Also I think about your great view of the north Atlantic from time to time.
I'm a sailor and have been too far away from the Ocean for quite some time now.
Lake Michigan is not small but there's something to thousands of miles of water....
that tweaks my adventure bug.
do not archive
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54987#54987
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
<<<<There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers octane
rating of the fuel>>>
There are many ways to calculate "octane", but if you do it the same way
autogas and 100LL are done, Ethanol is over 100 octane. It does other
things, but it doesn't lower the octane. Pure Ethanol in Mo. is currently
in the $2.20 range. 85% ethanol is around $2.50,,,go figure that and 87
octane autogas is a few cents either side of $3.00. What are you paying for
you're auto gas or 100LL in your state. You can check with So. Dakota U to
verify the above. They gave the sminar at OSH and it's on their web
site.Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> I'm another one who hates to keep harping on the dangers of ethanol in
> fibreglass tanks. The worst part of the whole deal is that on this
> continent ethanol is neither green or economical unless you can rate it in
> votes per gallon.
>
> Thee is a fellow flying an Avid on the avid group who was flying in
> California where they have 10% ethanol. He said he didn't have any
problems
> but he was premixing his fuel. Recently he swapped out his trusty R582
for
> a brand spankin' new Jab 2200. He is using a bit of "Top Lube" premixed
> into his tanks with good results so far.
>
> There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers octane
> rating of the fuel.
>
> BTW the only good thing about ethanol is it does increase the octane
rating
> of gasoline. (oct110)
>
> Noel
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WBL
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:18 AM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
> >
> > I have posted this in the past. I had a bad experience
> > several ago whin I put autofuel in my KF-Classic 4, flew for
> > an hour or more then put it in the hangar for a couple of
> > weeks. When I returned from a business trip I went out to
> > the hangar (at a public use airport) and discovered fuel
> > dripping out the tail and beyond the hangar. All of the
> > militar spec hoses had melted and were leaking! I have since
> > replaced all of the mil spec hoses with sae hoses and have
> > had no more problems. Many states are now mandating ethnol
> > to replace MBTE. Be careful! KF-2KM
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Mark R Miller <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > >Sent: Aug 14, 2006 7:42 AM
> > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > >
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
> > <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > >
> > >Michel
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
> > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > >
> > >
> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> > <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > >>
> > >> Michel,
> > >
> > >Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
> > BD-4And 5) the
> > >fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and weeped a lot.
> > >So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing
> > panels together.
> > >It is not a sloshing compound.
> > >It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
> > >It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
> > orther modern kit
> > >aircraft.
> > >
> > >Mak Miller
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
> > do not use
> > >> alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
> > sure I wouldn,t
> > >> want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
> > containing mo-gas.
> > >> I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
> > want to do it
> > >> again or make that twice if the Thiakol material doesn't work.
> > >>
> > >> ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
> > there is a BD-4
> > >> thread recommending the material in the metal wing
> > conversion. I don't
> > >> know which fuel they use.
> > >>
> > >> Lowell
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> > >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
> > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> > <michel@online.no>
> > >>>
> > >>> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
> > but on the
> > >>> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
> > >>>
> > >>> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
> > Military use a
> > >>> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
> > >>>
> > >>> Then later,
> > >>>
> > >>> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and
> > maintenance
> > >>> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
> > might search on
> > >>> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
> > the 2 is the pot
> > >>> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
> > >>>
> > >>> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
> > about that
> > >>> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
> > informant, the spy,
> > >>> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers,
> > >>> Michel
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
Other than the issue of fuel system compatibility, the alk does have
higher octane, but when used in a low compression engine that octane
goes to waste and the engine produces less horsepower that it would
if run on gas. This is true with all ratios of Alky/gas - the octane
goes up. An alky engine properly designed will have more horsepower
that an optimally tuned gas engine due to higher octane. However the
alky engine will deliver less fuel economy since the energy per
gallon is less. Of course e85 is pretty rare outside of the mid
states. At the 10% level it does not matter much, it just screws up
the systems not designed for the stuff.
Don't forget that for several years the Kitfox has been sold with
Alky compatible wing tanks using the proper epoxy resin. Which is the
same resin used in the gas station tanks. To make your Kitfox live
with alky and not have to use the sloshing liquids. Just buy the new
tanks. I am sure John McBean sells them.
Maybe Bob Unternaehrer was talking about premix of the 50:1 2 stroke
oil. which probably does reduce the fuel performance since it is not
generally known as an engine fuel.
Regards, Paul
=====================
At 12:41 PM 8/15/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>
><<<<There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers octane
>rating of the fuel>>>
>
>
>There are many ways to calculate "octane", but if you do it the same way
>autogas and 100LL are done, Ethanol is over 100 octane. It does other
>things, but it doesn't lower the octane. Pure Ethanol in Mo. is currently
>in the $2.20 range. 85% ethanol is around $2.50,,,go figure that and 87
>octane autogas is a few cents either side of $3.00. What are you paying for
>you're auto gas or 100LL in your state. You can check with So. Dakota U to
>verify the above. They gave the sminar at OSH and it's on their web
>site.Bob U.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:44 AM
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> >
> > I'm another one who hates to keep harping on the dangers of ethanol in
> > fibreglass tanks. The worst part of the whole deal is that on this
> > continent ethanol is neither green or economical unless you can rate it in
> > votes per gallon.
> >
> > Thee is a fellow flying an Avid on the avid group who was flying in
> > California where they have 10% ethanol. He said he didn't have any
>problems
> > but he was premixing his fuel. Recently he swapped out his trusty R582
>for
> > a brand spankin' new Jab 2200. He is using a bit of "Top Lube" premixed
> > into his tanks with good results so far.
> >
> > There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers octane
> > rating of the fuel.
> >
> > BTW the only good thing about ethanol is it does increase the octane
>rating
> > of gasoline. (oct110)
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WBL
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:18 AM
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > >
> > >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
> > >
> > > I have posted this in the past. I had a bad experience
> > > several ago whin I put autofuel in my KF-Classic 4, flew for
> > > an hour or more then put it in the hangar for a couple of
> > > weeks. When I returned from a business trip I went out to
> > > the hangar (at a public use airport) and discovered fuel
> > > dripping out the tail and beyond the hangar. All of the
> > > militar spec hoses had melted and were leaking! I have since
> > > replaced all of the mil spec hoses with sae hoses and have
> > > had no more problems. Many states are now mandating ethnol
> > > to replace MBTE. Be careful! KF-2KM
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Mark R Miller <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > >Sent: Aug 14, 2006 7:42 AM
> > > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >
> > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
> > > <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > >
> > > >Michel
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> > > <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > >>
> > > >> Michel,
> > > >
> > > >Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
> > > BD-4And 5) the
> > > >fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and weeped a lot.
> > > >So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing
> > > panels together.
> > > >It is not a sloshing compound.
> > > >It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
> > > >It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
> > > orther modern kit
> > > >aircraft.
> > > >
> > > >Mak Miller
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
> > > do not use
> > > >> alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
> > > sure I wouldn,t
> > > >> want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
> > > containing mo-gas.
> > > >> I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
> > > want to do it
> > > >> again or make that twice if the Thiakol material doesn't work.
> > > >>
> > > >> ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
> > > there is a BD-4
> > > >> thread recommending the material in the metal wing
> > > conversion. I don't
> > > >> know which fuel they use.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lowell
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> > > >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
> > > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> > > <michel@online.no>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
> > > but on the
> > > >>> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
> > > Military use a
> > > >>> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Then later,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and
> > > maintenance
> > > >>> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
> > > might search on
> > > >>> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
> > > the 2 is the pot
> > > >>> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
> > > about that
> > > >>> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
> > > informant, the spy,
> > > >>> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cheers,
> > > >>> Michel
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plug Wires |
I have the same metal box and would like to replace the spark plug wires also,
but I have not been able to determine how to disconnect the spark plug wires from
the trigger coils. Looks like they are molded into the trigger coils. Does
anyone know if the spark plug wires can be removed from the older trigger coils
like Paul and I have on our 912's?
Paul <ppeerenbo@charter.net> wrote: I am also looking for wire information.
It appears that the original wire I have (the blue wires) have a metal shielding.
The new wires do not have the shielding. I have the "big metal ignition
box behind the instrument panel. I am concern with noise. Any help out there.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: jeff puls
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plug Wires
I'm doing my annual inspection. It has been ten years since I have had my Classic
IV certified. I'm replacing everything. I called Lockwood today and gave
them the part number for new spark plug wires. They said they sell it by the MM.
Anyone know how much to order? I have a 912UL. Thanks, Jeff Classic IV
==================================== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ==================================== href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ==================================== href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com ==================================== href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ====================================
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
<<<<the alk does have
higher octane, but when used in a low compression engine that octane
goes to waste>>>
NOT so. If the Low compression engine is tuned for Ethanol ...aka ALK...and
has the proper fuel delivery system adjusted for alk, the the engine will
put out at least as many ponys and maybe a few more.
<<However the
> alky engine will deliver less fuel economy since the energy per
> gallon is less.>>>
Correct here. There isn't much economical advantage to Ethenol unless you
are a "blender" and can purchase in bulk, as we do, and get the 51c gov't
kickback. As you said...."MORE bang for the Vote" I believe it was.
<<Don't forget that for several years the Kitfox has been sold with
> Alky compatible wing tanks using the proper epoxy resin>>
The switch was done in 1992 and Skystar was never able to give me a serial
number break for the change. Mine is a 1992 Model. I plan on replacing the
Left hand, I beleive it is,, 6 gal tank to hold more fuel to bring the
aircraft range up to where it would be using 100LL . Even then some of the
newer resin tanks were till pourus and seeped. I've contacted Jim and he
hasn't got back to me as to the Material they are furnishing now. Seems
like someone on the list said once that there were after market ABS tanks
that worked good, but don't no who it was or who the supplier was.
Bob U
----- Original Message -----
From: "PWilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
>
> Other than the issue of fuel system compatibility, the alk does have
> higher octane, but when used in a low compression engine that octane
> goes to waste and the engine produces less horsepower that it would
> if run on gas. This is true with all ratios of Alky/gas - the octane
> goes up. An alky engine properly designed will have more horsepower
> that an optimally tuned gas engine due to higher octane. However the
> alky engine will deliver less fuel economy since the energy per
> gallon is less. Of course e85 is pretty rare outside of the mid
> states. At the 10% level it does not matter much, it just screws up
> the systems not designed for the stuff.
> Don't forget that for several years the Kitfox has been sold with
> Alky compatible wing tanks using the proper epoxy resin. Which is the
> same resin used in the gas station tanks. To make your Kitfox live
> with alky and not have to use the sloshing liquids. Just buy the new
> tanks. I am sure John McBean sells them.
>
> Maybe Bob Unternaehrer was talking about premix of the 50:1 2 stroke
> oil. which probably does reduce the fuel performance since it is not
> generally known as an engine fuel.
> Regards, Paul
> =====================
>
> At 12:41 PM 8/15/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
<shilocom@mcmsys.com>
> >
> ><<<<There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers
octane
> >rating of the fuel>>>
> >
> >
> >There are many ways to calculate "octane", but if you do it the same way
> >autogas and 100LL are done, Ethanol is over 100 octane. It does other
> >things, but it doesn't lower the octane. Pure Ethanol in Mo. is
currently
> >in the $2.20 range. 85% ethanol is around $2.50,,,go figure that and 87
> >octane autogas is a few cents either side of $3.00. What are you paying
for
> >you're auto gas or 100LL in your state. You can check with So. Dakota U
to
> >verify the above. They gave the sminar at OSH and it's on their web
> >site.Bob U.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:44 AM
> >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> > >
> > > I'm another one who hates to keep harping on the dangers of ethanol in
> > > fibreglass tanks. The worst part of the whole deal is that on this
> > > continent ethanol is neither green or economical unless you can rate
it in
> > > votes per gallon.
> > >
> > > Thee is a fellow flying an Avid on the avid group who was flying in
> > > California where they have 10% ethanol. He said he didn't have any
> >problems
> > > but he was premixing his fuel. Recently he swapped out his trusty
R582
> >for
> > > a brand spankin' new Jab 2200. He is using a bit of "Top Lube"
premixed
> > > into his tanks with good results so far.
> > >
> > > There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers
octane
> > > rating of the fuel.
> > >
> > > BTW the only good thing about ethanol is it does increase the octane
> >rating
> > > of gasoline. (oct110)
> > >
> > > Noel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WBL
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:18 AM
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
> > > >
> > > > I have posted this in the past. I had a bad experience
> > > > several ago whin I put autofuel in my KF-Classic 4, flew for
> > > > an hour or more then put it in the hangar for a couple of
> > > > weeks. When I returned from a business trip I went out to
> > > > the hangar (at a public use airport) and discovered fuel
> > > > dripping out the tail and beyond the hangar. All of the
> > > > militar spec hoses had melted and were leaking! I have since
> > > > replaced all of the mil spec hoses with sae hoses and have
> > > > had no more problems. Many states are now mandating ethnol
> > > > to replace MBTE. Be careful! KF-2KM
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: Mark R Miller <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > > >Sent: Aug 14, 2006 7:42 AM
> > > > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >
> > > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
> > > > <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > > >
> > > > >Michel
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > > >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> > > > <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Michel,
> > > > >
> > > > >Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
> > > > BD-4And 5) the
> > > > >fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and weeped a lot.
> > > > >So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing
> > > > panels together.
> > > > >It is not a sloshing compound.
> > > > >It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
> > > > >It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
> > > > orther modern kit
> > > > >aircraft.
> > > > >
> > > > >Mak Miller
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
> > > > do not use
> > > > >> alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
> > > > sure I wouldn,t
> > > > >> want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
> > > > containing mo-gas.
> > > > >> I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
> > > > want to do it
> > > > >> again or make that twice if the Thiakol material doesn't work.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
> > > > there is a BD-4
> > > > >> thread recommending the material in the metal wing
> > > > conversion. I don't
> > > > >> know which fuel they use.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Lowell
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> > > > >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > > >> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
> > > > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> > > > <michel@online.no>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
> > > > but on the
> > > > >>> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
> > > > Military use a
> > > > >>> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Then later,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and
> > > > maintenance
> > > > >>> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
> > > > might search on
> > > > >>> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
> > > > the 2 is the pot
> > > > >>> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
> > > > about that
> > > > >>> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
> > > > informant, the spy,
> > > > >>> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Cheers,
> > > > >>> Michel
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Kitfox IV and 912ULS installation |
I am in the final stages of installing a 912ULS in a Kitfox IV and I am having
a problem with lack of clearance between the top cowl piece and the top oil line
(the OUT line from the oil tank).
Actually, clearance isn't the right word here -- my oil line is actually lightly
touching the underside of the top cowl piece. I'm using the Skystar-modified
elbow fitting (thanks to John McBean) but that still isn't providing enough
clearance. Although the fitting itself fits under the cowl, once the oil hose
is attached and clamped all clearance between the oil hose and cowl is gone.
Has anyone else had this problem? What did you do?
I see several solutions, but so far I don't like any of them (or can't make them
work). One, try to find a "lower profile" fitting for the OUT oil line. I've
been looking, but so far no joy.
Two, try to bend the existing elbow beyond 90 degrees, which might get the oil
hose low enough to clear the cowl.
Three, try to lower the oil tank. At best, I think I could lower it maybe a 1/4
of an inch, which I don't think would be enough.
Four, cut a hole in the top cowl and fabricate a little "power bulge" to provide
adequate oil line clearance. This seems to be the most drastic approach, particularly
given my meager fiberglass-working skills, but it also gives the most
clearance.
Any other suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Terry Hughes
---------------------------------
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plug Wires |
I don't know about the 912 but on my 582, I relocated the coils off the
engine and to the firewall. Of course, I had to put in longer spark
plug wires. The wires at the coil end were installed with a type of
locktite. It's the locktite that held the wires in place. The spark
plug caps screwed into the wires.
As an added note, I purchased "ROTAX" replacement wire from Spruce
and it was "way" inferior to what was on the engine originally.
Re-ordered the same "ROTAX" wire from CPS and it matched perfectly to
the original wire. Just be aware...
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmie Blackwell
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plug Wires
I have the same metal box and would like to replace the spark plug
wires also, but I have not been able to determine how to disconnect the
spark plug wires from the trigger coils. Looks like they are molded into
the trigger coils. Does anyone know if the spark plug wires can be
removed from the older trigger coils like Paul and I have on our 912's?
Paul <ppeerenbo@charter.net> wrote:
I am also looking for wire information. It appears that the original
wire I have (the blue wires) have a metal shielding. The new wires do
not have the shielding. I have the "big metal ignition box behind the
instrument panel. I am concern with noise. Any help out there.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: jeff puls
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plug Wires
I'm doing my annual inspection. It has been ten years since I have
had my Classic IV certified. I'm replacing everything. I called Lockwood
today and gave them the part number for new spark plug wires. They said
they
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Hi Gary-
I just flew about 109 statute miles using about 7.6 gallons (US) into a
direct 20-25mph headwind. Because I was nearly out of fuel from my
home-based fuel supply, I could only fill each tank to about "that far"
from the tank neck before I started the trip. After I landed at my
destination, which was Mt. Pleasant, MI, I refueled, again filling to
the "same" eyeballed mark...not very scientific, you'll agree. Now that
I'm home I'll try to again fill to the same guess, and see what the
burn was with a tailwind. Again, not very scientific, but without the
fuel at home to fill to the neck before starting out, I could not get a
very accurate reading. Now that I'm cleared for solo x-country flights,
AND get a delivery of 100LL at home, I will be able to fill, fly to a
distant airport, fill, and be able to report an accurate number.
Lynn
On Friday, August 11, 2006, at 04:30 PM, Algate wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> Hi Lynn
>
> I don't have the S/No with me at work but I'll find out and send it to
> you
> on Monday. I have had quite a time trying to get the EGT under control
> as I
> had a very high EGT at WOT and I had to re-jet to get them right. All
> other
> temps and pressures are right on the money.
>
> I really like the sound and vibration free operation and it is a really
> simple power plant to work on. My new plane is model 4 with all speed
> mods
> and it crises around 90mph at 2600rpm burning 14 Ltr / hr - (How does
> that
> compare with yours?)
>
> I had about 500 hrs on my last Rotax 582 powered Kitfox (250 since
> major
> overhaul.) and I really never had any problems. With the few flights
> I've
> done to date with the Jab 2200 I am pretty happy with the
> performance. This
> weekend will tell!!!
>
>
> Best regards
> m
> Gary A
>
> -----Original Message----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:53 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Member
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of Jabiru power, Gary. What serial # is
> your engine? I hope you got the later one with the larger heads, and
> more cooling area like mine (ser. # 2062). I've got over a hundred
> hours on mine and I love it. I may regret saying it, but one nice thing
> about having Jab power is that I can skip by all the mail that relates
> to Rotax and their problems, and concentrate on reading about how
> Kitfoxes fly! And yes, I had a few minor problems at first with the
> Jab, but solved them early on.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV...Jabiru 2200
>
> p.s. really guys and gals, I did not say that to start a war! : )
>
> On Thursday, August 10, 2006, at 01:55 PM, Algate wrote:
>
>> I recently sold C-GVW to a gentleman in Westport, Ontario (near
>> Ottawa) and he will soon be added to the list. I was under the
>> impression that I might be returning to Australia in the very bear
>> future which prompted the sale but as always in business things change
>> and it now appears that I will be remaining in Canada for at least a
>> couple of years.
>>
>>
>>
>> I couldnt go long without a Kitfox so I managed to purchase another
>> one from Cornwall, Ontario. My new plane is a Model 4 with Jabiru 2200
>> and I am now going through the motions of personalizing it.
>>
>>
>>
>> This email is to basically introduce the new owner of C-IGVW (George
>> Briggs) to the list .
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary Algate
>>
>> FAJW
>>
>>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Michel-
Does this mean that you'll be flying your 'fox over here?
Lynn
On Saturday, August 12, 2006, at 03:33 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Aug 12, 2006, at 4:10 AM, Glenn Horne wrote:
>> If you can't get one in the near feature,maybe we can
>> work out something to get one to you.
>
> Thank you very much, Glenn, but Lowell has sent me, privately, the
> manufacturer of the original struts and it is > http://www.suspa-inc.com/
> Incidentally, I'll be touring in the US in September and Lowell has
> even kindly invited me at his home in Northern California, something I
> really look forward to.
> I am not in a hurry to replace my door strut, I have only the left one
> that is getting worn, lifting the door about half way, only. Of
> course, it is the most used door, it makes sense. The original struts
> are from 1992 and since then, the plane has been flying about 500
> times (not all by me) so it can be considered as normal wear.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Little help with windshield please. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I installed 10-32 nutplates under the butt rib capstrips, using solid
rivets to hold them in place. It makes life a lot easier when you
install, and a whole lot easier if you have to replace, the
windshield/skylight.
Lynn
On Sunday, August 13, 2006, at 04:59 PM, Dave G. wrote:
> I'm stuck for a bit on the wings waiting for parts and have started
> installing a new windshield. I removed all the fabric from one butt
> rib and I noticed that there is no reinforment strip to catch the
> rivets from the skylight. I can find no reference to one in the build
> manual but placed one anyway. I have no need to strip the butt rib on
> the other side but it is also lacking this strip. Is it normally there
> or not? I think I could place one without removing the fabric.
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV and 912ULS installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Terry,
have you permanently mounted the cowl and windshield, If so, the first thing
I would try is to drop the tank and then try to bend the exit line if
necessary or maybe find a local that could cut and reweld the SS tube. If
all else fails drop a note and I have a neat trick for adding a contour to
fiberglass.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Hughes" <thughes0202@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV and 912ULS installation
>I am in the final stages of installing a 912ULS in a Kitfox IV and I am
>having a problem with lack of clearance between the top cowl piece and the
>top oil line (the OUT line from the oil tank).
>
> Actually, clearance isn't the right word here -- my oil line is actually
> lightly touching the underside of the top cowl piece. I'm using the
> Skystar-modified elbow fitting (thanks to John McBean) but that still
> isn't providing enough clearance. Although the fitting itself fits under
> the cowl, once the oil hose is attached and clamped all clearance between
> the oil hose and cowl is gone.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem? What did you do?
>
> I see several solutions, but so far I don't like any of them (or can't
> make them work). One, try to find a "lower profile" fitting for the OUT
> oil line. I've been looking, but so far no joy.
>
> Two, try to bend the existing elbow beyond 90 degrees, which might get
> the oil hose low enough to clear the cowl.
>
> Three, try to lower the oil tank. At best, I think I could lower it maybe
> a 1/4 of an inch, which I don't think would be enough.
>
> Four, cut a hole in the top cowl and fabricate a little "power bulge" to
> provide adequate oil line clearance. This seems to be the most drastic
> approach, particularly given my meager fiberglass-working skills, but it
> also gives the most clearance.
>
> Any other suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Terry Hughes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: ENGINE MOUNT |
Mark
Shipped it today via UPS. So you should have it in 4-5 days. I included in
the box some information I found on the internet about welding 4130 chromoly.
The newer mounts have gussets welded on the upper part of the mount near the
oil tank mount. Hopefully, you will be able to put gussets on this one. I will
get a picture and send it to you in a few days.
This thing may turn out to be a big pain, and if it gets to be to much trouble
let me know. A welder I am not , but it appears to me that welding the old
piece back on will be tough to get lined up just right. Hopefully, for someone
like you with experience it will be a piece of cake.
My phone number again is 512 258-7020 or cell 512 695-6627.
Thanks Mark.
Jimmie
Mark Thompson <kr2@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hey Jimmie when are you going to send me that engine mount for tig welding?
Mark...N61AC
Mark Thompson
kr2@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
Message 25
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Sorry everyone, but I mistakenly addressed a message for Mark to the List.
Jimmie
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Little help with windshield please. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
I like that idea, perhaps with a smaller nut plate, maybe a 6-32. It would
be no problem with countersunk rivets on the butt rib. I could use regular
nuts on the rear attachment.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Little help with windshield please.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I installed 10-32 nutplates under the butt rib capstrips, using solid
> rivets to hold them in place. It makes life a lot easier when you install,
> and a whole lot easier if you have to replace, the windshield/skylight.
>
> Lynn
> On Sunday, August 13, 2006, at 04:59 PM, Dave G. wrote:
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I think you will find the gas station tanks are not epoxy. But HDPE.
Sloshing compounds seem to eventually come off.... Better to not use
ethanol fuel or replace the tank with a pre-moulded HDPE like the five
gallon "Jerry" cans are made of.
I can't wait until I can put all this behind me..... Someone please design
a nice 70-80 hp turbo diesel!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PWilson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:04 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
>
> Other than the issue of fuel system compatibility, the alk does have
> higher octane, but when used in a low compression engine that octane
> goes to waste and the engine produces less horsepower that it would
> if run on gas. This is true with all ratios of Alky/gas - the octane
> goes up. An alky engine properly designed will have more horsepower
> that an optimally tuned gas engine due to higher octane. However the
> alky engine will deliver less fuel economy since the energy per
> gallon is less. Of course e85 is pretty rare outside of the mid
> states. At the 10% level it does not matter much, it just screws up
> the systems not designed for the stuff.
> Don't forget that for several years the Kitfox has been sold with
> Alky compatible wing tanks using the proper epoxy resin. Which is the
> same resin used in the gas station tanks. To make your Kitfox live
> with alky and not have to use the sloshing liquids. Just buy the new
> tanks. I am sure John McBean sells them.
>
> Maybe Bob Unternaehrer was talking about premix of the 50:1 2 stroke
> oil. which probably does reduce the fuel performance since it is not
> generally known as an engine fuel.
> Regards, Paul
> =====================
>
> At 12:41 PM 8/15/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
> <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
> >
> ><<<<There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently
> it lowers octane
> >rating of the fuel>>>
> >
> >
> >There are many ways to calculate "octane", but if you do it
> the same way
> >autogas and 100LL are done, Ethanol is over 100 octane. It
> does other
> >things, but it doesn't lower the octane. Pure Ethanol in
> Mo. is currently
> >in the $2.20 range. 85% ethanol is around $2.50,,,go figure
> that and 87
> >octane autogas is a few cents either side of $3.00. What
> are you paying for
> >you're auto gas or 100LL in your state. You can check with
> So. Dakota U to
> >verify the above. They gave the sminar at OSH and it's on their web
> >site.Bob U.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:44 AM
> >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> > >
> > > I'm another one who hates to keep harping on the dangers
> of ethanol in
> > > fibreglass tanks. The worst part of the whole deal is
> that on this
> > > continent ethanol is neither green or economical unless
> you can rate it in
> > > votes per gallon.
> > >
> > > Thee is a fellow flying an Avid on the avid group who was
> flying in
> > > California where they have 10% ethanol. He said he
> didn't have any
> >problems
> > > but he was premixing his fuel. Recently he swapped out
> his trusty R582
> >for
> > > a brand spankin' new Jab 2200. He is using a bit of "Top
> Lube" premixed
> > > into his tanks with good results so far.
> > >
> > > There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently
> it lowers octane
> > > rating of the fuel.
> > >
> > > BTW the only good thing about ethanol is it does increase
> the octane
> >rating
> > > of gasoline. (oct110)
> > >
> > > Noel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WBL
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:18 AM
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
> > > >
> > > > I have posted this in the past. I had a bad experience
> > > > several ago whin I put autofuel in my KF-Classic 4, flew for
> > > > an hour or more then put it in the hangar for a couple of
> > > > weeks. When I returned from a business trip I went out to
> > > > the hangar (at a public use airport) and discovered fuel
> > > > dripping out the tail and beyond the hangar. All of the
> > > > militar spec hoses had melted and were leaking! I have since
> > > > replaced all of the mil spec hoses with sae hoses and have
> > > > had no more problems. Many states are now mandating ethnol
> > > > to replace MBTE. Be careful! KF-2KM
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: Mark R Miller <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > > >Sent: Aug 14, 2006 7:42 AM
> > > > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >
> > > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
> > > > <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > > >
> > > > >Michel
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > > >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> > > > <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Michel,
> > > > >
> > > > >Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
> > > > BD-4And 5) the
> > > > >fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and
> weeped a lot.
> > > > >So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing
> > > > panels together.
> > > > >It is not a sloshing compound.
> > > > >It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
> > > > >It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
> > > > orther modern kit
> > > > >aircraft.
> > > > >
> > > > >Mak Miller
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
> > > > do not use
> > > > >> alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
> > > > sure I wouldn,t
> > > > >> want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
> > > > containing mo-gas.
> > > > >> I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
> > > > want to do it
> > > > >> again or make that twice if the Thiakol material
> doesn't work.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
> > > > there is a BD-4
> > > > >> thread recommending the material in the metal wing
> > > > conversion. I don't
> > > > >> know which fuel they use.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Lowell
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> > > > >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > > >> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
> > > > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> > > > <michel@online.no>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
> > > > but on the
> > > > >>> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
> > > > Military use a
> > > > >>> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Then later,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and
> > > > maintenance
> > > > >>> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
> > > > might search on
> > > > >>> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
> > > > the 2 is the pot
> > > > >>> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
> > > > about that
> > > > >>> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
> > > > informant, the spy,
> > > > >>> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Cheers,
> > > > >>> Michel
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I think you misunderstood me. Ethanol is approximately 110 octane so it
will raise the octane level of most gas.
Premixing oil in the gas, as some two strokers do, will lower the octane
rating of the fuel. Oil injection systems allow higher octane fuel to enter
the cylinders but you might have your fuel tanks disintegrate if there is
ethanol in your gas.
I am extremely lucky in that I live in Newfoundland and ethanol hasn't
ventured this far north yet.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Bob Unternaehrer
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:12 PM
> To: Kitfox List
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
> <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>
> <<<<There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently
> it lowers octane
> rating of the fuel>>>
>
>
> There are many ways to calculate "octane", but if you do it
> the same way
> autogas and 100LL are done, Ethanol is over 100 octane. It
> does other
> things, but it doesn't lower the octane. Pure Ethanol in Mo.
> is currently
> in the $2.20 range. 85% ethanol is around $2.50,,,go figure
> that and 87
> octane autogas is a few cents either side of $3.00. What are
> you paying for
> you're auto gas or 100LL in your state. You can check with
> So. Dakota U to
> verify the above. They gave the sminar at OSH and it's on their web
> site.Bob U.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:44 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> >
> > I'm another one who hates to keep harping on the dangers of
> ethanol in
> > fibreglass tanks. The worst part of the whole deal is that on this
> > continent ethanol is neither green or economical unless you
> can rate it in
> > votes per gallon.
> >
> > Thee is a fellow flying an Avid on the avid group who was flying in
> > California where they have 10% ethanol. He said he didn't have any
> problems
> > but he was premixing his fuel. Recently he swapped out his
> trusty R582
> for
> > a brand spankin' new Jab 2200. He is using a bit of "Top
> Lube" premixed
> > into his tanks with good results so far.
> >
> > There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it
> lowers octane
> > rating of the fuel.
> >
> > BTW the only good thing about ethanol is it does increase the octane
> rating
> > of gasoline. (oct110)
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WBL
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:18 AM
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > >
> > >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
> > >
> > > I have posted this in the past. I had a bad experience
> > > several ago whin I put autofuel in my KF-Classic 4, flew for
> > > an hour or more then put it in the hangar for a couple of
> > > weeks. When I returned from a business trip I went out to
> > > the hangar (at a public use airport) and discovered fuel
> > > dripping out the tail and beyond the hangar. All of the
> > > militar spec hoses had melted and were leaking! I have since
> > > replaced all of the mil spec hoses with sae hoses and have
> > > had no more problems. Many states are now mandating ethnol
> > > to replace MBTE. Be careful! KF-2KM
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Mark R Miller <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > >Sent: Aug 14, 2006 7:42 AM
> > > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >
> > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
> > > <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > >
> > > >Michel
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> > > <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > >>
> > > >> Michel,
> > > >
> > > >Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
> > > BD-4And 5) the
> > > >fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and weeped a lot.
> > > >So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing
> > > panels together.
> > > >It is not a sloshing compound.
> > > >It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
> > > >It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
> > > orther modern kit
> > > >aircraft.
> > > >
> > > >Mak Miller
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
> > > do not use
> > > >> alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
> > > sure I wouldn,t
> > > >> want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
> > > containing mo-gas.
> > > >> I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
> > > want to do it
> > > >> again or make that twice if the Thiakol material doesn't work.
> > > >>
> > > >> ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
> > > there is a BD-4
> > > >> thread recommending the material in the metal wing
> > > conversion. I don't
> > > >> know which fuel they use.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lowell
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> > > >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
> > > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> > > <michel@online.no>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
> > > but on the
> > > >>> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
> > > Military use a
> > > >>> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Then later,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and
> > > maintenance
> > > >>> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
> > > might search on
> > > >>> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
> > > the 2 is the pot
> > > >>> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
> > > about that
> > > >>> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
> > > informant, the spy,
> > > >>> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cheers,
> > > >>> Michel
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Gross weight on floats |
This is a scene from my deck overlooking Indian Arm, Notre Dame Bay,
Newfoundland.
Greetings!
I have a slight problem that has kept me out of the air most of the summer.
TC changed the registration of my plane so now I have to do a float
endorsement. Getting it done in this remote location had been a bit
difficult. Worse than that winter is coming and I need some conventional
instruction... If I put the wheels or skis on this winter.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Rabbers
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:20 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gross weight on floats
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers"
> <rira1950@yahoo.com>
>
> Noel,
>
> Thanks for your note.
> It will help me some to get my 'feet wet' - then I can
> develop a feel for things. I'll read up on FAA regarding
> gross wt. changes.
> More than once I've felt dissappointment for buying a model
> vs. 2-3 or 4. More times than that... for not getting it
> flying by now!
>
> Thanks to you and others I'm able to enjoy reading of
> challanges and adventures.
>
> - Also I think about your great view of the north Atlantic
> from time to time.
>
> I'm a sailor and have been too far away from the Ocean for
> quite some time now. Lake Michigan is not small but there's
> something to thousands of miles of water.... that tweaks my
> adventure bug.
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Richard in SW Michigan
> Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54987#54987
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE MOUNT |
Hi Jimmie,I dont hink I will have a problem with your tig weld joints....unless
I have to many beers...lol
Please email or send me any and all Gussett locations....................
See ya Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmie Blackwell
Sent: 8/15/2006 9:02:58 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ENGINE MOUNT
Mark
Shipped it today via UPS. So you should have it in 4-5 days. I included in the
box some information I found on the internet about welding 4130 chromoly.
The newer mounts have gussets welded on the upper part of the mount near the oil
tank mount. Hopefully, you will be able to put gussets on this one. I will
get a picture and send it to you in a few days.
This thing may turn out to be a big pain, and if it gets to be to much trouble
let me know. A welder I am not , but it appears to me that welding the old piece
back on will be tough to get lined up just right. Hopefully, for someone
like you with experience it will be a piece of cake.
My phone number again is 512 258-7020 or cell 512 695-6627.
Thanks Mark.
Jimmie
Mark Thompson
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
My kit left SkyStar in Dec 96, does that mean I have the good tanks? John A,
Series 5
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
<<<<the alk does have
higher octane, but when used in a low compression engine that octane
goes to waste>>>
NOT so. If the Low compression engine is tuned for Ethanol ...aka ALK...and
has the proper fuel delivery system adjusted for alk, the the engine will
put out at least as many ponys and maybe a few more.
<<However the
>alky engine will deliver less fuel economy since the energy per
>gallon is less.>>>
Correct here. There isn't much economical advantage to Ethenol unless you
are a "blender" and can purchase in bulk, as we do, and get the 51c gov't
kickback. As you said...."MORE bang for the Vote" I believe it was.
<<Don't forget that for several years the Kitfox has been sold with
>Alky compatible wing tanks using the proper epoxy resin>>
The switch was done in 1992 and Skystar was never able to give me a serial
number break for the change. Mine is a 1992 Model. I plan on replacing the
Left hand, I beleive it is,, 6 gal tank to hold more fuel to bring the
aircraft range up to where it would be using 100LL . Even then some of the
newer resin tanks were till pourus and seeped. I've contacted Jim and he
hasn't got back to me as to the Material they are furnishing now. Seems
like someone on the list said once that there were after market ABS tanks
that worked good, but don't no who it was or who the supplier was.
Bob U
----- Original Message -----
From: "PWilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
>
>Other than the issue of fuel system compatibility, the alk does have
>higher octane, but when used in a low compression engine that octane
>goes to waste and the engine produces less horsepower that it would
>if run on gas. This is true with all ratios of Alky/gas - the octane
>goes up. An alky engine properly designed will have more horsepower
>that an optimally tuned gas engine due to higher octane. However the
>alky engine will deliver less fuel economy since the energy per
>gallon is less. Of course e85 is pretty rare outside of the mid
>states. At the 10% level it does not matter much, it just screws up
>the systems not designed for the stuff.
>Don't forget that for several years the Kitfox has been sold with
>Alky compatible wing tanks using the proper epoxy resin. Which is the
>same resin used in the gas station tanks. To make your Kitfox live
>with alky and not have to use the sloshing liquids. Just buy the new
>tanks. I am sure John McBean sells them.
>
>Maybe Bob Unternaehrer was talking about premix of the 50:1 2 stroke
>oil. which probably does reduce the fuel performance since it is not
>generally known as an engine fuel.
>Regards, Paul
>=====================
>
>At 12:41 PM 8/15/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
<shilocom@mcmsys.com>
> >
> ><<<<There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers
octane
> >rating of the fuel>>>
> >
> >
> >There are many ways to calculate "octane", but if you do it the same way
> >autogas and 100LL are done, Ethanol is over 100 octane. It does other
> >things, but it doesn't lower the octane. Pure Ethanol in Mo. is
currently
> >in the $2.20 range. 85% ethanol is around $2.50,,,go figure that and 87
> >octane autogas is a few cents either side of $3.00. What are you paying
for
> >you're auto gas or 100LL in your state. You can check with So. Dakota U
to
> >verify the above. They gave the sminar at OSH and it's on their web
> >site.Bob U.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:44 AM
> >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> > >
> > > I'm another one who hates to keep harping on the dangers of ethanol in
> > > fibreglass tanks. The worst part of the whole deal is that on this
> > > continent ethanol is neither green or economical unless you can rate
it in
> > > votes per gallon.
> > >
> > > Thee is a fellow flying an Avid on the avid group who was flying in
> > > California where they have 10% ethanol. He said he didn't have any
> >problems
> > > but he was premixing his fuel. Recently he swapped out his trusty
R582
> >for
> > > a brand spankin' new Jab 2200. He is using a bit of "Top Lube"
premixed
> > > into his tanks with good results so far.
> > >
> > > There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently it lowers
octane
> > > rating of the fuel.
> > >
> > > BTW the only good thing about ethanol is it does increase the octane
> >rating
> > > of gasoline. (oct110)
> > >
> > > Noel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WBL
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:18 AM
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
> > > >
> > > > I have posted this in the past. I had a bad experience
> > > > several ago whin I put autofuel in my KF-Classic 4, flew for
> > > > an hour or more then put it in the hangar for a couple of
> > > > weeks. When I returned from a business trip I went out to
> > > > the hangar (at a public use airport) and discovered fuel
> > > > dripping out the tail and beyond the hangar. All of the
> > > > militar spec hoses had melted and were leaking! I have since
> > > > replaced all of the mil spec hoses with sae hoses and have
> > > > had no more problems. Many states are now mandating ethnol
> > > > to replace MBTE. Be careful! KF-2KM
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: Mark R Miller <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > > >Sent: Aug 14, 2006 7:42 AM
> > > > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >
> > > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
> > > > <markrmiller@cableone.net>
> > > > >
> > > > >Michel
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > > >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> > > > <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Michel,
> > > > >
> > > > >Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
> > > > BD-4And 5) the
> > > > >fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and weeped a lot.
> > > > >So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing
> > > > panels together.
> > > > >It is not a sloshing compound.
> > > > >It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
> > > > >It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
> > > > orther modern kit
> > > > >aircraft.
> > > > >
> > > > >Mak Miller
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
> > > > do not use
> > > > >> alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
> > > > sure I wouldn,t
> > > > >> want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
> > > > containing mo-gas.
> > > > >> I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
> > > > want to do it
> > > > >> again or make that twice if the Thiakol material doesn't work.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
> > > > there is a BD-4
> > > > >> thread recommending the material in the metal wing
> > > > conversion. I don't
> > > > >> know which fuel they use.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Lowell
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> > > > >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > > >> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
> > > > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> > > > <michel@online.no>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
> > > > but on the
> > > > >>> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
> > > > Military use a
> > > > >>> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Then later,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and
> > > > maintenance
> > > > >>> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
> > > > might search on
> > > > >>> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
> > > > the 2 is the pot
> > > > >>> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
> > > > about that
> > > > >>> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
> > > > informant, the spy,
> > > > >>> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Cheers,
> > > > >>> Michel
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol and wing tanks |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I don't know about up there, but down here the gas station tanks are vinyl
ester resin. And this is the resin used in the newer Skystar tanks.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> I think you will find the gas station tanks are not epoxy. But HDPE.
> Sloshing compounds seem to eventually come off.... Better to not use
> ethanol fuel or replace the tank with a pre-moulded HDPE like the five
> gallon "Jerry" cans are made of.
>
> I can't wait until I can put all this behind me..... Someone please
> design
> a nice 70-80 hp turbo diesel!
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PWilson
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:04 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
>>
>> Other than the issue of fuel system compatibility, the alk does have
>> higher octane, but when used in a low compression engine that octane
>> goes to waste and the engine produces less horsepower that it would
>> if run on gas. This is true with all ratios of Alky/gas - the octane
>> goes up. An alky engine properly designed will have more horsepower
>> that an optimally tuned gas engine due to higher octane. However the
>> alky engine will deliver less fuel economy since the energy per
>> gallon is less. Of course e85 is pretty rare outside of the mid
>> states. At the 10% level it does not matter much, it just screws up
>> the systems not designed for the stuff.
>> Don't forget that for several years the Kitfox has been sold with
>> Alky compatible wing tanks using the proper epoxy resin. Which is the
>> same resin used in the gas station tanks. To make your Kitfox live
>> with alky and not have to use the sloshing liquids. Just buy the new
>> tanks. I am sure John McBean sells them.
>>
>> Maybe Bob Unternaehrer was talking about premix of the 50:1 2 stroke
>> oil. which probably does reduce the fuel performance since it is not
>> generally known as an engine fuel.
>> Regards, Paul
>> =====================
>>
>> At 12:41 PM 8/15/2006, you wrote:
>> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
>> <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>> >
>> ><<<<There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently
>> it lowers octane
>> >rating of the fuel>>>
>> >
>> >
>> >There are many ways to calculate "octane", but if you do it
>> the same way
>> >autogas and 100LL are done, Ethanol is over 100 octane. It
>> does other
>> >things, but it doesn't lower the octane. Pure Ethanol in
>> Mo. is currently
>> >in the $2.20 range. 85% ethanol is around $2.50,,,go figure
>> that and 87
>> >octane autogas is a few cents either side of $3.00. What
>> are you paying for
>> >you're auto gas or 100LL in your state. You can check with
>> So. Dakota U to
>> >verify the above. They gave the sminar at OSH and it's on their web
>> >site.Bob U.
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> >Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:44 AM
>> >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>> >
>> >
>> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
>> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>> > >
>> > > I'm another one who hates to keep harping on the dangers
>> of ethanol in
>> > > fibreglass tanks. The worst part of the whole deal is
>> that on this
>> > > continent ethanol is neither green or economical unless
>> you can rate it in
>> > > votes per gallon.
>> > >
>> > > Thee is a fellow flying an Avid on the avid group who was
>> flying in
>> > > California where they have 10% ethanol. He said he
>> didn't have any
>> >problems
>> > > but he was premixing his fuel. Recently he swapped out
>> his trusty R582
>> >for
>> > > a brand spankin' new Jab 2200. He is using a bit of "Top
>> Lube" premixed
>> > > into his tanks with good results so far.
>> > >
>> > > There is a bit of a problem with premixing. Apparently
>> it lowers octane
>> > > rating of the fuel.
>> > >
>> > > BTW the only good thing about ethanol is it does increase
>> the octane
>> >rating
>> > > of gasoline. (oct110)
>> > >
>> > > Noel
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> > > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WBL
>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:18 AM
>> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
>> > > >
>> > > > I have posted this in the past. I had a bad experience
>> > > > several ago whin I put autofuel in my KF-Classic 4, flew for
>> > > > an hour or more then put it in the hangar for a couple of
>> > > > weeks. When I returned from a business trip I went out to
>> > > > the hangar (at a public use airport) and discovered fuel
>> > > > dripping out the tail and beyond the hangar. All of the
>> > > > militar spec hoses had melted and were leaking! I have since
>> > > > replaced all of the mil spec hoses with sae hoses and have
>> > > > had no more problems. Many states are now mandating ethnol
>> > > > to replace MBTE. Be careful! KF-2KM
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > >From: Mark R Miller <markrmiller@cableone.net>
>> > > > >Sent: Aug 14, 2006 7:42 AM
>> > > > >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> > > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>> > > > >
>> > > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark R Miller"
>> > > > <markrmiller@cableone.net>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Michel
>> > > > >----- Original Message -----
>> > > > >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>> > > > >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> > > > >Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:51 PM
>> > > > >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>> > > > <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Michel,
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Pro seal has been used in the BD-4 since the beginng (of the
>> > > > BD-4And 5) the
>> > > > >fiberglass pannels of the BD-4 were very porris and
>> weeped a lot.
>> > > > >So Proseal was ued to seal the holes and bond the wing
>> > > > panels together.
>> > > > >It is not a sloshing compound.
>> > > > >It is very thick and is applied with a putty knife.
>> > > > >It is also used today to seal the RV fuel tanks and many
>> > > > orther modern kit
>> > > > >aircraft.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Mak Miller
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> My only thought on that is that the military and airlines
>> > > > do not use
>> > > > >> alcohol containing fuels, but jet-(something). I'm pretty
>> > > > sure I wouldn,t
>> > > > >> want to be the Beta tester for the group using alcohol
>> > > > containing mo-gas.
>> > > > >> I have already sloshed one completed wing tank and don't
>> > > > want to do it
>> > > > >> again or make that twice if the Thiakol material
>> doesn't work.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> ' though, I did a quick search on Google and found that
>> > > > there is a BD-4
>> > > > >> thread recommending the material in the metal wing
>> > > > conversion. I don't
>> > > > >> know which fuel they use.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Lowell
>> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > >> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
>> > > > >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> > > > >> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:36 PM
>> > > > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ethanol and wing tanks
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
>> > > > <michel@online.no>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> I know, I know, we have already discussed that many times
>> > > > but on the
>> > > > >>> Jabiru list, there is a Bill Evans who writes the following:
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> "The fuel tank problem can be solved. The airlines and
>> > > > Military use a
>> > > > >>> Thiokol Rubber sealant generally known as PRC."
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> Then later,
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> "I can buy PRC here from the local aircraft service and
>> > > > maintenance
>> > > > >>> shops. I believe it is manufactured by Pro-Seal now. You
>> > > > might search on
>> > > > >>> the part number PRC-1422 A2 The A is the thin stuff and
>> > > > the 2 is the pot
>> > > > >>> life. Full cure is probably 8 hours at 70F."
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> Just to let you know, guys. I don't know the first thing
>> > > > about that
>> > > > >>> product, I am only the go-between, the messenger, the
>> > > > informant, the spy,
>> > > > >>> the turncoat, the ... ok, I'll shut up! :-)
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> Cheers,
>> > > > >>> Michel
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
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Message 33
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I am considering purchasing a Lowrance 2000c GPS unit. Does anyone have
one or have experience with one. Also, is there another unit that you
like. I will be using it in my plane, but also in my truck. The Garmin
price tag is more than I am willing to pay at this time.
Steve Wilson
Message 34
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Hi Steve,I use the same Lorance gps 2000c in my plane and also in my truck,and
boat.....its a nice unit with color graphics and is loaded with all the current
nav sys.........I paid around $800 for it about 6 months ago,some places wanted
$1200 for the same thing,so do your shopping..
I cant remember off hand where I bought mine,but if you need to know ,let me know
and I will dig up the reciept.
See Ya Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Wilson
Sent: 8/16/2006 12:13:32 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS Units
I am considering purchasing a Lowrance 2000c GPS unit. Does anyone have one or
have experience with one. Also, is there another unit that you like. I will
be using it in my plane, but also in my truck. The Garmin price tag is more
than I am willing to pay at this time.
Steve Wilson
Message 35
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I have a 2000c . It works great. I havn't had it but a short time and is
easy to learn. Lots of things it will do. The big difference that I see
is the quality of the drawing is not as sharp as the Garmin. If I had to
do it again I would buy the 2000c. A lot less expensive and leaves a little
more money for other toys.
If you get it let us know what you think.
Marwynne
Hilltop Lakes Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Wilson
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:03 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS Units
I am considering purchasing a Lowrance 2000c GPS unit. Does anyone have
one or have experience with one. Also, is there another unit that you like.
I will be using it in my plane, but also in my truck. The Garmin price tag
is more than I am willing to pay at this time.
Steve Wilson
Message 36
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> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> Michel-
> Does this mean that you'll be flying your 'fox over here?
He, he! I know that Michel Gordillo did it but ... I am only the other Michel,
the one without IFR license nor the guts to fly that long, Lynn. I'll fly an airliner
... :-)
Cheers,
Michel
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