---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/23/06: 78 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:03 AM - Re: Is a taildragger dangerous (Michael Gibbs) 2. 01:05 AM - Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks (Michael Gibbs) 3. 01:14 AM - Re: ALtimeter adjustment (Michael Gibbs) 4. 02:59 AM - Re: ALtimeter adjustment (Michel Verheughe) 5. 03:28 AM - ELT loocation and Ethanol (Dill Family) 6. 03:44 AM - Re: Font sizes (Dave) 7. 04:19 AM - Re: Font sizes (Rexster) 8. 05:17 AM - Re: ELT loocation and Ethanol (Don Smythe) 9. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: ALtimeter adjustment (Lowell Fitt) 10. 05:29 AM - Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Magdic, Steve) 11. 05:42 AM - Idaho BackCcountry Trip (Lowell Fitt) 12. 06:17 AM - Re: Re: Handheld Trancievers (Noel Loveys) 13. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks (Noel Loveys) 14. 06:54 AM - Re: Re: ALtimeter adjustment (Noel Loveys) 15. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Handheld Trancievers (flier) 16. 07:31 AM - Fw: Age (HMDOUD) 17. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous (Kenneth and Alice Jones) 18. 07:46 AM - Re: Is a taildragger dangerous? (Ben Baltrusaitis) 19. 07:47 AM - Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Joe Connell) 20. 08:00 AM - Re: Age (Tony Clark) 21. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous (Dave) 22. 08:01 AM - Re: Idaho BackCcountry Trip (Ted Palamarek) 23. 08:03 AM - Re: Idaho BackCcountry Trip (Fox5flyer) 24. 08:05 AM - Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Joel Mapes) 25. 08:13 AM - Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? (Anliker, Mark) 26. 08:21 AM - Re: Is a taildragger dangerous? (John Oakley) 27. 08:29 AM - Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Margaret Hastedt) 28. 09:06 AM - Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Grant Fluent) 29. 09:17 AM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (John Galt) 30. 09:26 AM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (John Galt) 31. 09:32 AM - Re: Age (Fox5flyer) 32. 09:46 AM - Re: Idaho Back Country (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 33. 09:52 AM - Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (John Oakley) 34. 09:53 AM - Tri gear vs tailwheel for short take-off, was: Is a taildragger dangerous (Clifford Begnaud) 35. 09:54 AM - Re: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? (Jose M. Toro) 36. 10:06 AM - Check Ride in a Kitfox? (wingnut) 37. 10:17 AM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (Jose M. Toro) 38. 10:42 AM - Re: Check Ride in a Kitfox? (spudnuts) 39. 10:53 AM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (Don Smythe) 40. 10:55 AM - Re: Age (Tony Clark) 41. 11:02 AM - Re: Check Ride in a Kitfox? (vft@aol.com) 42. 11:15 AM - Re: Idaho Back Country (John Oakley) 43. 11:54 AM - (Off-topic) Thailand (Michel Verheughe) 44. 12:34 PM - Oil Cooler Instructions (Dave and Diane) 45. 12:38 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Mr NELSON GOGUEN) 46. 12:52 PM - Re: kitfox list: age (Fox5flyer) 47. 01:08 PM - Re: Font sizes (Lynn Matteson) 48. 01:27 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Jose M. Toro) 49. 02:02 PM - Re: Check Ride in a Kitfox? (Jose M. Toro) 50. 02:28 PM - Need a 582 (Ron Liebmann) 51. 03:38 PM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (Rexster) 52. 04:04 PM - Re: Need a 582 (Dave) 53. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Kevin Cozik) 54. 04:53 PM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (RichWill) 55. 04:56 PM - Oil Cooler Installation (??) (RichWill) 56. 05:01 PM - Re: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? (RichWill) 57. 05:02 PM - Re: Is a taildragger dangerous? (RichWill) 58. 05:30 PM - Re: Is a taildragger dangerous? (Noel Loveys) 59. 05:35 PM - Re: Fw: Age (Noel Loveys) 60. 05:39 PM - Re: Font sizes (Noel Loveys) 61. 05:41 PM - Re: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? (Cudnohufsky's) 62. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (John Galt) 63. 05:46 PM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (John Galt) 64. 06:39 PM - Re: Check Ride in a Kitfox? (Paul) 65. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Mr NELSON GOGUEN) 66. 06:47 PM - Re: Check Ride in a Kitfox? (Malcolmbru@aol.com) 67. 06:54 PM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (Noel Loveys) 68. 06:57 PM - Re: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? (Dave) 69. 06:58 PM - Re: Check Ride in a Kitfox? (Dave) 70. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks (Jay Carter) 71. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks (Lyle Persels) 72. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks (Noel Loveys) 73. 08:05 PM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (John Galt) 74. 08:26 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Jose M. Toro) 75. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) (Don Pearsall) 76. 11:01 PM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand? (Noel Loveys) 77. 11:50 PM - Re: Re: Handheld Trancievers (Dave) 78. 11:50 PM - Re: Idaho BackCcountry Trip (Dave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:39 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Michel sez: >...Ground loop from bad landing in good weather condition. Is it a >real danger when you have several hundred landings on a plane you >know well? Will I, one day, loose control without apparent reason? There is a famous story about Dan Denney giving a demonstration flight in a Kitfox to a magazine reporter and ground-looping the airplane on landing. I'm sure Denney had thousands of hours in 'foxes at that time. Distraction is something that can sneak up on the most experienced of pilots. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:48 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Noel sez: >No where in that piece did it say the octane number can't go above 100. I don't know what you are smoking, Noel, but it must be good stuff. I copied this DIRECTLY from the article: > "Note that, technically, there is no such thing as an octane number > above 100. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:20 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: ALtimeter adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs kitfoxmike sez: >...THat's why you always give your altitude when getting clearance >with atc, so that things can be zero'd so to speak with the >controller. Air traffic control is looking for your indicated altitude to be within 125 feet of the altitude your encoder is transmitting (adjusted for local pressure). If it is not, you may be asked to turn off your encoder while receiving radar services because the controller cannot rely on the altitude value he sees on his screen. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:43 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: ALtimeter adjustment > From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys@yahoo.ca] > To swing a compass properly on floats Hum, if I had a seaplane, I think I would adjust the compass by taxiing at say, 10 MPH, on the water, using the GPS set to magnetic heading, as a reference. Of course, it's a two men's job. My experience in both maritime and aviation magnetic compass is that it is impossible to expect more than 5 degrees accuracy, which, IMHO, is good enough. Cheers, Michel
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:58 AM PST US From: "Dill Family" Subject: Kitfox-List: ELT loocation and Ethanol Have been working on a Kitfox 2 hoping to get it back in the air. The longer story includes my dad purchasing it on EBay for 14K. He paid way too much for a worn out engine, ground loop history and surface rust on the fuselage tubing. I am in for over 7k in parts and materials including an engine rebuild and new windows all around. Have spent two years on it, but am getting close to breaking in the engine. Just to let you know, my state sells only 10% ethanol. I have a couple of gallons of it mixed with two cycle oil that I have been putting in and out of the tanks to check for leaks. The o-rings on both fuel tank drain valves, which I put in brand new, swelled up and started a leak just from the short time in the garage (say 5 or 6 months). Plus, a valve that was with the airplane when I got it, pretty much seized in position. I plan to drain fuel completely after each flight and start each flight with fresh gas. Does anybody know if New York State uses ethanol mix? I can go there to get my gas. I just bought an ACK E-01 ELT. This is the yellow one for $227 in Aircraft Spruce. Has anybody put one of these into a Kitfox? Where is a good place to put it? Can I leave the antenna inside the fuselage or must I mount it outside? I presume it comes with a remote switch, where did you put that? I have not gotten over the fact that this aircraft, with 220 hours on it, never had an ELT. Regs allow no ELT for local training, I think this rule was to stay within 50 miles. Is it common for these things to be flying around without an ELT? Jeff Dill, K2, N767JD ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:10 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Font sizes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Lynn, I use outlook express for mail and to adjust font size I just hold down CTRL button and roll the mouse wheel on message and it changes size. Or alternate would be click on View ==> Text size ==> select font size you like Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:22 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Font sizes > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Hey guys and gals, how about giving this old man a break and not use those > stinkin' little 10 size lettering that have been cropping up here lately. > For some reason, a lot of mail has been coming in using that tiny, hard to > read size. It doesn't cost any more to use a 12, and these tired eyes > would appreciate it. : ) > And it's not just my reader, or my computer, as some messages contain size > 10, 12, and even 14 when quoting other posters. > > Thanks, > Lynn > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:54 AM PST US From: "Rexster" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Font sizes Thanks Dave. It works! Rex in Michigan -- "Dave" wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Lynn, I use outlook express for mail and to adjust font size I just hold down CTRL button and roll the mouse wheel on message and it changes size. Or alternate would be click on View ==> Text size ==> select font size you like Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:22 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Font sizes > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Hey guys and gals, how about giving this old man a break and not use t hose > stinkin' little 10 size lettering that have been cropping up here late ly. > For some reason, a lot of mail has been coming in using that tiny, har d to > read size. It doesn't cost any more to use a 12, and these tired eyes > would appreciate it. : ) > And it's not just my reader, or my computer, as some messages contain size > 10, 12, and even 14 when quoting other posters. > > Thanks, > Lynn > > > ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========

Thanks Dave.

 It works!


Rex in Michigan

 


-- "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
--> ; Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" &l t;dave@cfisher.com>

Lynn,

I use outlook  express for mail and to adjust font s ize I just hold down CTRL 
button  and roll the mouse wheel on message a nd it changes size.
Or alternate would  be  click on View ==>  Text&nb sp;size  ==> select font size 
y ou like

Dave


----- Original Message&nbs p;----- 
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.n et>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesd ay, August 22, 2006 10:22 PM
Subject: K itfox-List: Font sizes


> --> Kitfox -List message posted by: Lynn Matteson < ;lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Hey guys and g als, how about giving this old man a& nbsp;break and not use those 
> stin kin' little 10 size lettering that have&nb sp;been cropping up here lately. 
>  For some reason, a lot of mail has&nb sp;been coming in using that tiny, hard&nb sp;to 
> read size. It doesn't cost& nbsp;any more to use a 12, and these& nbsp;tired eyes 
> would appreciate it.&n bsp;: )
> And it's not just my  reader, or my computer, as some messages&n bsp;contain size 
> 10, 12, and even  14 when quoting other posters.
>
>  Thanks,
> Lynn
>
>
>
>
>< ======================== =======================
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:46 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ELT loocation and Ethanol Jeff, See below for comments (and opinions) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dill Family >>10% ethanol. I have a couple of gallons of it mixed with two cycle oil that I have been putting in and out of the tanks to check for leaks. The o-rings on both fuel tank drain valves, which I put in brand new, swelled up and started a leak just from the short time in the garage (say 5 or 6 months). >> The ethanol is a different question but on my classic IV, I simply removed the tank drains and pluged the holes with small pipe plugs. On the classic IV, those drains were pretty much useless due to their location and wing dihedral. Plus, if you have the doors open and get a small drip you tend to mess up the Lexan. >>Plus, a valve that was with the airplane when I got it, pretty much seized in position.>> If you have the round cylinder type main shut off made of some sort of plastic, that valve had some problems from the start. The internal "O" ring was know to cut and end up down the fuel line. I would recommend replacing the valve with a small ball and seat type. Again, ethanol is another question >> I plan to drain fuel completely after each flight and start each flight with fresh gas.>> I'm not sure that draining the tanks will be the fix when using ethanol. The mixture will still be inside the engine block, carb bowls, filters, etc.,etc. ( I'm assuming you have a two stroke) BTW, if you have black MIL-6000 fuel lines I'd recommend "highly" you replace all them with either SAE auto fuel injection line or Polyurethane from Spruce. I use the Poly (good results) and still replace all fuel lines every two years. >>Does anybody know if New York State uses ethanol mix? I can go there to get my gas.>> I was just in Long Island and they have 10% Ethanol. Having said that, 10% Ethanol has just hit my area but my particular County (due to being a rural area) still has ethanol free fuel. You might check around and see if maybe rural areas of NY might be operating the same. This is a tough decision but I might consider 100LL before ethanol???? >>I just bought an ACK E-01 ELT. This is the yellow one for $227 in Aircraft Spruce. Can I leave the antenna inside the fuselage or must I mount it outside? >> I mounted mine just behind the pilot seat bulkhead and left it inside the fuselage (just enough height). The IV has an antenna mounting plate in that area. >>I presume it comes with a remote switch, where did you put that? >> I installed mine in an overhead console (my design). I think most install them somewhere in the panel >>Is it common for these things to be flying around without an ELT?>> I don't think so. I think the regs basically call for an ELT if you are going to carry passengers. Don Smythe Jeff Dill, K2, N767JD ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:31 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: ALtimeter adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" This has been my thought while reading this thread. It seems that the only time I use the compass is to estimate my position from an airport when making an initial contact and that is always reported in approximat terms - East, Southwest, etc. and when determining runway designations. I guess I have become a "lazy" pilot as we on the West Coast always are in view of mountains for general headings. and navigation. Lots of time when on a cross country, we use roads or rivers, but when in a flight of at least two will fly direct so have a GPS and "ELT" back-up. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 2:58 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: ALtimeter adjustment >> From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys@yahoo.ca] >> To swing a compass properly on floats > > Hum, if I had a seaplane, I think I would adjust the compass by taxiing at > say, 10 MPH, on the water, using the GPS set to magnetic heading, as a > reference. Of course, it's a two men's job. My experience in both maritime > and aviation magnetic compass is that it is impossible to expect more than > 5 degrees accuracy, which, IMHO, is good enough. > > Cheers, > Michel > > > 

>
>
>
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:01 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) From: "Magdic, Steve" Just checked my drivers license. Been here 44 years. Own a 912UL powered Model 3 with Model 4 wing taildragger. Fly with the doors off all summer long. Installed a cargo pod which proved to be very useful. Fly off a private 1300ft grass strip in Pewaukee Wisconsin. Steve Magdic ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:47 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: Idaho BackCcountry Trip Well, this is the forth time I have tried to send this out. The first two times, I got no rejection notice, but FYI, I suppose Matronics has a max file size. Mine checked out at 11kb before sending. I did get a rejection notice the third time and apparently Matronics doesn't like Word Perfect and rejected it for that reason. I am now sending with only doc and txt attachment versions. I was just trying to be helpful with the file types. Lowell A quick report on the Idaho trip. The California contingent left at first light on the 17th, or close to first light. AT 0530, Wray, (Model IV 912) got an early phone call telling us that the two from Westover - Larry, (Model IV 912) and Ken (Rans S-6 912S) were running a bit late. We got a heads-up at 6 that they were ready and we taxied up to our runway which put us about 10 minutes behind them and as usual it wasn't until Carson City - about an hour - that we made first visual contact. This part of the trip is always a tough one as we are Eastbound and as the sun rises it is right behind the compass, or should I say right beside the compass. This trip it was all business as our first night was to be at Smiley Creek so we did not fly the Rye Patch Dam outflow at tree top level preferring to make time to Winnemucca for a fuel stop. The FBO there is under new management the last couple of years and it is a nice place with good people. We are always remembered there even though we buy less than ten gallons of fuel each. With four airplanes to fuel and the normal potty stops it is 45 minutes until we are off again for the stop at Caldwell for fuel and the hook up with Mark (Model IV 912) from Caldwell, Danny (Model V 912 ULS) from Tuskarora, and Hal (Rans S-7 912 UL with the high comp piston conversion) from Elko. As we taxied into the fueling area we heard Mark making pattern calls and he and Hal arrived from a local flight as we were fueling. Danny was already tied down and fueled. The trip from Cameron Park to Caldwell put just shy of 5 hours on the airplane and a bit more than 27 gallons through the engine. For the bean counters, this was at close to 5500 rpm the whole way with the first hour climbing from 1300 to 10,000 ft. Now we were a flight of seven and off to Smiley Creek. This 7,100 ft elevation airport is on the Salmon River in the middle of the Sawtooth Mountains. http://www.ruralnetwork.net/~smileyck/airport.html This is one nice grass strip. The State of Idaho provides a full time caretaker that takes his business seriously. Showers and a nearby restaurant provides all an air camper needs. We lined up in the tiedown area near a Bonanza and a C-206 and others and pitched our tents. Night time temps were in the low 20s with frost on the tents, windshields and wings by morning, but a little sunshine in the AM took care of that and after a great breakfast at the Lodge we were on our way. Departing Smiley Creek airport, we fly low over the meandering Salmon River practicing our tight turns as the river flows North. Flying North, the valley tightens into a canyon with the rim rising above us a thousand feet or more and peaks to 10,000 ft. on either side. About 20 miles North of Smiley Creek, still on the Salmon, the Stanley airport - grass and gravel - marks the Eastern turn of the river as it follows the canyon Eastward another 20 miles where the river again turns Northward to Challis. Challis is in more open country, grass land rather than timbered, with lots of irrigated farmland touching the river banks. Challis is a fuel stop where we once again top off the tanks. A note here, The Kitfoxes in the group have never used more than half their fuel on any leg as the Rans airplanes have smaller tanks and the fuel management is usually to their benefit leaving the Kitfoxes with lots of reserves. A discussion on the design differences arrived at the conclusion that the Kitfox is a Western creation with lots of wide open spaces and the Rans out of the Midwest with an airport around every corner, hence fuel and lots of it is designed into the Kitfox. Challis is a fun place for me as I once had a dental assistant who had grand kids there on a farm near the river and trying to find it from the air is a nice diversion. We follow the Salmon Northward from Challis about 35 miles, past Lemhi and North Fork where the river turns Westward where it will eventually merge with the Snake a bit above Hells Canyon on it's way to become part of the Columbia River outflow. Twenty miles North of North Fork we fly over 6,900 ft. Gibbons pass where we enter the Bitter Root watershed and follow that river to Hamilton where we will once again spend the night. A friendly competition between two FBOs there gives us great fuel prices, and a 24 hour FBO with Computer, TV, hot showers and would you believe a restaurant. Also enough lawn to pitch seven tents and courtesy cars to boot. When we got there the restaurant was closed and we learned later that the afternoon cook was the owners wife and she walked that day because as he explained, she was divorcing him - at least that is the way he told it. After tying down our airplanes again on grass, we grabbed the courtesy cars to try to find a restaurant in town where most of us got sick the last time there. That time the flight was in reverse order and after eating there and barfing all night from both ends we flew to Smiley Creek where those affected did the rapid quick step to the johns as soon as the airplanes rolled to a stop. Anyway we found the restaurant and I ordered the same thing I had last time, the 12 oz hamburger special with about a half pound of sauteed mushrooms. Nearly too much to eat, but it got et. The next morning we had breakfast at the FBO's restaurant as payback for the great night's sleep. No one got sick this time and it was while there that we heard of the Polson Fly-in at a great little airport on the Southern edge of Flathead Lake near Polson, Montana. This is a great fly-in. Lots of airplanes flown by common folk like you and me. On registering we found that PICs got a free breakfast for their trouble so by ten 0'clock we all had our second breakfast of the day. Good too. >From Polson it was across the mountains to the West to Thompson Falls another fuel stop then to Elk River for the night. http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=11&X=703&Y=647 6&W=1 (you may have to copy and paste this one.) Elk River is a grass? strip with enough length to accommodate rather healthy certified singles. We were the only ones there this day however and proceeded immediately after tying down to walk the 100 yds to Huckleberry Heaven for that legendary huckleberry milkshake. On a walk looking for a cabin that was advertised to sleep 7 for forty bucks somewhere on E. 3rd street we found the city park and seeing the grass under a couple of shady trees, I knew where I belonged and that is where we spent the next hour hangar talking and gossiping. (Larry and I were coming home early - we both had family obligations - and it occurred to both of us that we would be fair game for just such a lazy time under another tree after we left. We love each other, but we all have done things that make us notorious in our own right and anyone not able to defend himself - and sometimes even if he can - is attack fodder) We never found the cabin, but we were able to get rooms there for $40 a night per two pilots with a bathroom down the hall so that was the plan. Dinner was at the restaurant across the street that managed the rooms. We all had rib eye steaks, fresh corn on the cob, - the farmer came peddling the corn as we were killing time in the closed restaurant - baked potato, and raspberry-rhubarb cobbler. All this, and it was a big steak, for$12.00. With bulging bellies once again we went down to the airport for our pajamas and settled into our rooms. That evening after the air cooled a bit we hiked up the street to an old abandoned school. It was huge, three stories with a bell tower and lots of gables. I guess built when the logging industry was booming, but sadly in a very poor state of preservation and a multimillion dollar project if anyone was interested. A bit of history that will eventually fade from the scene. Sleep was good and early the next morning I was in the shower expecting the commotion to rouse everyone else, but as I walked back down the hall, I saw Larry look up and wave and that was that for another hour. I was back in bed shortly and got another wink or two between mental projects that always come up during a long adventure like this. When we finally got everyone up it was back to the restaurant for everyone's usual breakfast and after packing the airplanes it was a take off to the south, one pass over the airport with Larry and I continuing South as the others headed up to Cavanaugh Bay on Priest lake. http://www.airnav.com/airport/66s Some pictures: http://www.nwaac.com/flyout_cavanaugh_bay_2004.htm For those old timers on the list it was to Cavanaugh Bay that John McBean led a group after the 2005 Cameron Park fly-in. Larry and I didn't make it this year, but the place deserves some recognition. It is one gorgeous place. A fairway-like grass strip that you approach over the lake with one tall pine right were it shouldn't be, but long enough that the tree really isn't a problem. Great grass for pitching a tent - last time there we were told that our camp spot became a lake when it rained and it was raining - and a 50 yard walk to the lake and a great outdoor restaurant right next to the runway threshold where we could eat good food while watching the approaching traffic and the float planes coming and going. I haven't heard from any of the guys that stayed, but I know it isn't raining. Their plan is to go to Port Hill where there is a neat grass strip that is a POE with customs office. You have to see it to believe it.. While the guys were off to Cavanaugh Bay, Larry and I were navigating between the fire fighting TFRs back to Caldwell. We had great skies on the Eastern side of Idaho as we flew North and smoke after smoke as we headed South on the Western Side. We stayed in Caldwell for the night at Mark's house and at first light we were on our way home with a ten minute stop in Winnemucca for fuel. We were home shortly after 1100 and it is great to be home. Lowell ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:02 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers That is not normal for any hand held radio. Send the radio with the antenna back to Icom I'll bet they'll do good for you. The problem could even be in the rubber duck. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:35 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers Jack, That is quite interesting...same thing going on here. I even stood outside my car in direct line of sight to the tower and they didn't hear transmission. After hearing this I wouldnt give two cents for another one. Thanks for the reply. Dan B Jack L Bell wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jack L Bell Oddly- I recently donated my sporty's JD-200 to the local neighborhood around my hangar, and ended up purchasing an Icom A-24 on Ebay. I thought I'd been "had"- the system would receive, but not transmit. Whenver I attempted to transmit, I'd get a "low battery" indication.. and no-one could hear me. In, or out of the plane. I stopped by the local ham supply store- and purchased the alkaline battery pack.. no difference. I, ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:44 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" Haven't had a cigarette in sixteen years .... But I did have a cigar this weekend ( the first one in about 15 yr.) Technically you may be right practically tell that to all the guys who burned tons of octane 110-115 Technically by that definition if the fuel doesn't have iso-octane in it the octane rating is zero Technically they're playing with semantics. Cheers, Noel P.S. Think I'll go flying 8^} > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Gibbs > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:35 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and > wing tanks > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs > > > Noel sez: > > >No where in that piece did it say the octane number can't go > above 100. > > I don't know what you are smoking, Noel, but it must be good stuff. > I copied this DIRECTLY from the article: > > > "Note that, technically, there is no such thing as an > octane number > > above 100. > > Mike G. > N728KF > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:05 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: ALtimeter adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" That's why I think some of the requirements for the compass swing is simply out to lunch. Having the avionics and other flight equipment turned on may account for a degree or two and having the engine charging system operating may account for another degree of error. The probability is that the shotgun in the back of the cabin, the hunting knife on your buddy's waist, the outboard motor you have strapped to the float or the extra set of headphones will swing your compass more than having the plane on a trailer or having the engine switched off. We are flying relatively slow aircraft VFR. That means we watch the ground and make course corrections as necessary. This is why as long as the compass points in the general direction of north we can use it. While in this part of the world a magnetic compass is a primary navigation instrument. It is also probably the least used instrument required. Noel > > Hum, if I had a seaplane, I think I would adjust the compass > by taxiing at say, 10 MPH, on the water, using the GPS set to > magnetic heading, as a reference. Of course, it's a two men's > job. My experience in both maritime and aviation magnetic > compass is that it is impossible to expect more than 5 > degrees accuracy, which, IMHO, is good enough. > > Cheers, > Michel > > > 

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> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> ics.com/contribution
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> ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:07 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" I have an A6 and use it all the time in my Nieuport. No problem talking to towers from miles away. ICOM makes great radios. I agree, send it to them and let them fix it. --- Original Message --- From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers >That is not normal for any hand held radio. Send the radio with the >antenna >back to Icom I'll bet they'll do good for you. The problem could even >be in >the rubber duck. > > > >Noel > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan >Billingsley >Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:35 AM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers > > >Jack, >That is quite interesting...same thing going on here. I even stood >outside >my car in direct line of sight to the tower and they didn't hear >transmission. After hearing this I wouldnt give two cents for another >one. >Thanks for the reply. >Dan B > >Jack L Bell wrote: > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jack L Bell > > >Oddly- I recently donated my sporty's JD-200 to the local neighborhood >around my hangar, >and ended up purchasing an Icom A-24 on Ebay. > >I thought I'd been "had"- the system would receive, but not transmit. >Whenver I attempted to transmit, I'd get a "low battery" indication.. >and no-one could hear me. In, or out of the plane. > >I stopped by the local ham supply store- and purchased the alkaline >battery >pack.. >no difference. I, > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:49 AM PST US From: "HMDOUD" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: Age Subject: Age In response to the email regarding Kitfiox owner's ages. Tho I feel a young 102............. I'm really 78, or is it 87?........Keep fergettin'.......... Flyin' a Kitfox 4..........I think..........with a 582 blue head....... (or red?) Like to fly with the door open down here, watchin' all them little people and little cars..........but yuh shor gotta be careful spittin' tubacci juice. Yup! figured it out.............Somebody keeps moving the airporrt, when I'm flyin'. Went to the Doc the other day, 'bout my fergettin' problem..........s'plained about fergettin'..........Doc, asked some questions fer a coupla minutes and asked me how long I'd had my problem.....I said, what problem? D'juh ever walk in the next room and wonder why yuh went there? Got this little invisible man, who folllows me around and when I lay sumpin' down.....the turkey moves it. Bent down to tie my shoe and wondered if there wasn't sumpin' else I could do, while I was down there. Time for my nap.......Mighta already had it? ...............Just looked in the mirror.and it broke. Anyway.glad to talk at all you ...............Foxkiters.............I 'member now.It's 78 years.........Goin' on 102. Foxkit ........Herb ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:04 AM PST US From: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" I think I read on this list some time ago ( a year or more) that the nose wheel Kitfox can take off and land a little shorter than the tailwheel version because of the ability to get a little more rotation and thus a greater angle of attack. Does anyone else remember that discussion? I made the tailwheel decision and purchased the parts before I heard about this. That being said I am staying with the tailwheel - logic aside. I have tailwheel experience, I like the looks, and I like being in the fraternity of the few pilots who fly tailwheel airplanes. Ken Jones Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gibbs" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:02 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs > > Michel sez: > >>...Ground loop from bad landing in good weather condition. Is it a real >>danger when you have several hundred landings on a plane you know well? >>Will I, one day, loose control without apparent reason? > > There is a famous story about Dan Denney giving a demonstration flight in > a Kitfox to a magazine reporter and ground-looping the airplane on > landing. I'm sure Denney had thousands of hours in 'foxes at that time. > > Distraction is something that can sneak up on the most experienced of > pilots. > > Mike G. > N728KF > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:29 AM PST US From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a taildragger dangerous? I was disappointed when I read "How to Fly a Kitfox" by Edward Downs on page 13: "In general, a less skilled tri-gear pilot has about the same statistical safety record as a skilled taildragger pilot." I thought I could be better than that. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:55 AM PST US From: "Joe Connell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) I built a Kitfox-II when I was 50. Now building an RV-9A at 66... Joe ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:13 AM PST US From: Tony Clark Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Age 47 years old, but no longer have a kitfox. i used to have a model 2. i just monitor this site for future reference. i now own and fly a van's rv-4, which, by the way, is for sale. i'm looking for another kitfox. i want to get back to the open door flying. if anyone knows of kitfox for sale, please let me know. for all you folks discussing taildraggers, i too transitioned from a tricycle gear to my kitfox, and yes, i did ground loop it once. but as discussed earlier, it was typical pilot error and inattention (emphasize error on this one). i was landing with a 10 mph tailwind and i looped it at moving at about 20mph. the wing never tilted and the mains remained on the ground, but still, a real attention getter. never did that again. the tail on a model 2 didn't have enough authority to allow a tailwind landing once the speed got slow or the prop was blowing over the tail. never had a problem with tailwind takeoffs tho. on the positive side of having taildragger kitfox, when i transitioned to the vans rv-4, i only had to have 3 hours of dual for insurance purposes. the rv-4 is a lot easier to land than the kitfox, but not nearly as fun. the kitfox always required "dancing feet" like the jitterbug, whereas the van's requires something akin to a slow waltz to keep it straight on roll out. --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:12 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Good question, I would think that weight is your biggest enemy on quicker takeoffs. I think a taidragger Kitfox would tend to be lighter than a nose gear equipped one. One thing for sure is Tailwheel aircraft will get you in and out of places that a trigear will not, plus can be ski equipped easier and make a better skiplane. Thoughts ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" > > > I think I read on this list some time ago ( a year or more) that the nose > wheel Kitfox can take off and land a little shorter than the tailwheel > version because of the ability to get a little more rotation and thus a > greater angle of attack. Does anyone else remember that discussion? I > made the tailwheel decision and purchased the parts before I heard about > this. That being said I am staying with the tailwheel - logic aside. I > have tailwheel experience, I like the looks, and I like being in the > fraternity of the few pilots who fly tailwheel airplanes. > > Ken Jones > > Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Gibbs" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:02 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs >> >> Michel sez: >> >>>...Ground loop from bad landing in good weather condition. Is it a real >>>danger when you have several hundred landings on a plane you know well? >>>Will I, one day, loose control without apparent reason? >> >> There is a famous story about Dan Denney giving a demonstration flight in >> a Kitfox to a magazine reporter and ground-looping the airplane on >> landing. I'm sure Denney had thousands of hours in 'foxes at that time. >> >> Distraction is something that can sneak up on the most experienced of >> pilots. >> >> Mike G. >> N728KF >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:57 AM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Idaho BackCcountry Trip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" Lowell Your report on the trip came through fine last night. Some wonderful country in that part of Idaho. Ted Palamarek DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: August 23, 2006 6:42 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Idaho BackCcountry Trip Well, this is the forth time I have tried to send this out. The first two times, I got no rejection notice, but FYI, I suppose Matronics has a max file size. Mine checked out at 11kb before sending. I did get a rejection notice the third time and apparently Matronics doesn't like Word Perfect and rejected it for that reason. I am now sending with only doc and txt attachment versions. I was just trying to be helpful with the file types. Lowell ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:32 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Idaho BackCcountry Trip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Lowell, I got the one you sent last night just fine. I have no idea about the bounces. Good report. Thanks, Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Idaho BackCcountry Trip > Well, this is the forth time I have tried to send this out. The first two > times, I got no rejection notice, but FYI, I suppose Matronics has a max > file size. Mine checked out at 11kb before sending. I did get a rejection > notice the third time and apparently Matronics doesn't like Word Perfect and > rejected it for that reason. I am now sending with only doc and txt > attachment versions. I was just trying to be helpful with the file types. > > Lowell > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:56 AM PST US From: "Joel Mapes" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" Hi Darin, Time to recaluclate the average. Age 52. Paperwork has been sent to the FAA and I'm waiting for the inspection. Joel Model 5 912 GTA CS prop Aerocomp amphibs Bremerton, WA USA _________________________________________________________________ Search from any web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? From: "Anliker, Mark" Anyone with a Model 3 (or similar) flying with a Rotax 503 engine installation? I have a friend who just bought a Model 3 w/o engine, and he's "kicking around" installing a 503. Does anyone have experience with this airframe and engine combination? Is it underpowered with two up? ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:13 AM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is a taildragger dangerous? When I bought my fox in 92 I made the mistake of taking my wife into the insurance guys office, he explained to her that a tail dragger was four times more likely to have a mishap than the tricycle gear and the amphip float equipped fox like yours is 5 times more likely to have a mishap than the tail dragger.. she looked at him with big eyes and said " our float plane is 20 times more likely to have a mishap than the tricycle gear 182 ? " he nodded and hummm,.. Like Walter Mitty , we never did fly the floats. John Oakley _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Baltrusaitis Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a taildragger dangerous? I was disappointed when I read "How to Fly a Kitfox" by Edward Downs on page 13: "In general, a less skilled tri-gear pilot has about the same statistical safety record as a skilled taildragger pilot." I thought I could be better than that. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:14 AM PST US From: "Margaret Hastedt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Margaret Hastedt" I'm a 43 yr. old woman and have built a Classic IV. But it ain't the years, it's the mileage! A little over half the 40 hours flown off now. Feels like it's taking forever... -Margaret H. College Station, TX >>> gerns25@netscape.net 08/21/06 7:23 PM >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" I am currently building a Series 7 and started wondering if there are any other builders located near Salt Lake City, Utah. Then I started wondering what the general demographic of our group looked like (age wise). I figured this would be a fun topic and I may get to now some of you better by putting it out there. I will start with myself...I am 30 and have owned a Model III and am currently building a Series 7 (almost finished with the Fuse). If there are any of you that are located near Salt Lake City, Utah let me know, I wouldn't mind some moral support/encouragement while building. Darin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56191#56191 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:11 AM PST US From: Grant Fluent Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent Grant Fluent - Age 37 Newcastle, NE close to Vermillion,SD (VMR) Classic IV --- darinh wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > > I am currently building a Series 7 and started > wondering if there are any other builders located > near Salt Lake City, Utah. Then I started wondering > what the general demographic of our group looked > like (age wise). I figured this would be a fun > topic and I may get to now some of you better by > putting it out there. > > I will start with myself...I am 30 and have owned a > Model III and am currently building a Series 7 > (almost finished with the Fuse). > > If there are any of you that are located near Salt > Lake City, Utah let me know, I wouldn't mind some > moral support/encouragement while building. > > Darin ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:32 AM PST US From: "John Galt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Ahhhh... but you didn't see what he said off list regarding price controls and trying to beat kitfox sellers into "holding the line" on price let alone the insults he hurls at others who may own planes other then a kitfox currently. I realize these religious zealots exist in any vocation, so it will not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole point is the market sets the price, not some over zealous evangelist, no matter how well intentioned they may be. With regards to the Thai comment, all I have to say is if you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. Regards, John On 8/22/06, Don Smythe wrote: > > John, > I've been on this list close to 11 years and have known Lowell for most > of them. I read your post and his. Why you compared child sex trade and a > Kitfox on this list, I'll never know. The second part of the post talked > about the price of a kitfox and not being allowed on the list. I was very > confused about it all. Also, Lowell's post did not sound condescending. > He basically only asked, What does this have to do with a Kitfox? I started > to ask the same question. Occasionally, we get into a big peeing contest > over some misunderstood comment or opinion. I hope this is not the case. > > Don Smythe > > Hello Lowell: > > > is not a get out of jail free card. > > I take it by the condescending tone of your message, those not willing > to overpay for a used Kitfox are not allowed on this list? Like it or not, > it is a buyer's market > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:30 AM PST US From: "John Galt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Hello Ted: You misunderstood me. I am saying kitfox owners have the same responsiblities as the rest of society. That is what the "get out of jail free" comment was about. Owning a kitfox does not excuse ones actions, be they direct or indirect, in the bigger picture. We clear? Thanks John On 8/22/06, Ted Palamarek wrote: > > John > > > I don't usually reply to statements such as yours. But I take offence to > the fact that you may be suggesting that because a lot of us own a Kitfox we > somehow contribute to what may be going on in Thailand. Innuendos such as > this have no place on this list and suggest you curtail any further comments > in this regard. That is my humble opinion. > > > Ted Palamarek > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Galt > *Sent:* August 22, 2006 12:17 PM > *To:* Lowell Fitt; kitfox-list@matronics.com > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? > > > Hello Lowell: > > > Yes, I am unhappy when I see people contributing to the child sex trade > industry. Doesn't matter to me if the party owns a kitfox or not! Kitfox > ownership is not a get out of jail free card. > > > I take it by the condescending tone of your message, those not willing > to overpay for a used Kitfox are not allowed on this list? Like it or not, > it is a buyer's market for airplanes, let alone experimentals. Doesn't > matter what you ask for a product, what matters is what the buyer is willing > to pay. It is a testament to feeble mindedness that someone would get hate > mail for pricing their kitfox "too low". > > > On 8/21/06, *Lowell Fitt* wrote: > > John, Just curious, what is your interest in the Kitfox list. It doesn't > seem that you have much knowledge regarding the airplane and your posts > seem > rather bitter in tone. Are you unhappy? > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Galt" > To: < kitfox-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 1:37 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? > > > >I really don't think very much of the child sex trade. > > > > On 8/19/06, WBL < aeromer@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL > >> > >> Is Michel Gordillo still on the Kitfox list? I believe that he landed > in > >> Thailand on his epic Madrid to Oshkosh flight in 1998 and connected > with > >> some Kitfox builders in South Asia. I have met Kitfoxers in many > >> countries > >> around the world. A Google search usually comes up with aircraft type > >> clubs, etc. AeroMer N102KM (tail dragger with amphib floats in the > near > >> future) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> >From: Colin Durey > >> >Sent: Aug 19, 2006 4:13 PM > >> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > >> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? > >> > > >> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" < colin@ptclhk.com> > >> > > >> >Hi Guys!, > >> > > >> > I'm about to do a work stint in Thailand for the next couple of > months > >> >(there goes the building schedule), and was wondering if anyone knows > of > >> >any Kitfoxes flying in Thailand. If there are any there, I'd like to > try > >> >and make contact to see if I can both look over their a/c and, if > >> >possible, do a bit of flying. > >> > > >> > > >> >Regards > >> > > >> >Colin Durey > >> >Sydney > >> >+61-418-677073 (M) > >> >+61-2-945466162 (F) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > * * > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:42 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Age Hi Tony. Where did my "baby" go off to this time? Deke Morisse Mikado MI do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Clark To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Age 47 years old, but no longer have a kitfox. i used to have a model 2. i just monitor this site for future reference. i now own and fly a van's rv-4, which, by the way, is for sale. i'm looking for another kitfox. i want to get back to the open door flying. if anyone knows of kitfox for sale, please let me know. for all you folks discussing taildraggers, i too transitioned from a tricycle gear to my kitfox, and yes, i did ground loop it once. but as discussed earlier, it was typical pilot error and inattention (emphasize error on this one). i was landing with a 10 mph tailwind and i looped it at moving at about 20mph. the wing never tilted and the mains remained on the ground, but still, a real attention getter. never did that again. the tail on a model 2 didn't have enough authority to allow a tailwind landing once the speed got slow or the prop was blowing over the tail. never had a problem with tailwind takeoffs tho. on the positive side of having taildragger kitfox, when i transitioned to the vans rv-4, i only had to have 3 hours of dual for insurance purposes. the rv-4 is a lot easier to land than the kitfox, but not nearly as fun. the kitfox always required "dancing feet" like the jitterbug, whereas the van's requires something akin to a slow waltz to keep it straight on roll out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:42 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Idaho Back Country Lowell, great narrative in an area we enjoy. Every year my buddy and I say next year. John Oakley, lets do it, I'll stop buy IF to link up and we can join them in Challis. John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Oakley" > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" > > Ah Lowell, > You talk so pretty. I am sorry I missed you guys again this year. > > John....see you soon. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:02 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Idaho Back Country > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > My apologies if this post surfaces again. I posted it early this morning > and am trying again as I will be out of town again, this time for two weeks. > > > > A quick report on the Idaho trip. > > The California contingent left at first light on the 17th, or close to first > > light. AT 0530, Wray, (Model IV 912) got an early phone call telling us that > > the two from Westover - Larry, (Model IV 912) and Ken (Rans S-6 912S) were > running a bit late. We got a heads-up at 6 that they were ready and we > taxied up to our runway which put us about 10 minutes behind them and as > usual it wasn't until Carson City - about an hour - that we made first > visual contact. This part of the trip is always a tough one as we are > Eastbound and as the sun rises it is right behind the compass, or should I > say right beside the compass. > > This trip it was all business as our first night was to be at Smiley Creek > so we did not fly the Rye Patch Dam outflow at tree top level preferring to > make time to Winnemucca for a fuel stop. The FBO there is under new > management the last couple of years and it is a nice place with good people. > > We are always remembered there even though we buy less than ten gallons of > fuel each. With four airplanes to fuel and the normal potty stops it is 45 > minutes until we are off again for the stop at Caldwell for fuel and the > hook up with Mark (Model IV 912) from Caldwell, Danny (Model V 912 ULS) from > > Tuskarora, and Hal (Rans S-7 912 UL with the high comp piston conversion) > from Elko. As we taxied into the fueling area we heard Mark making pattern > calls and he and Hal arrived from a local flight as we were fueling. Danny > was already tied down and fueled. The trip from Cameron Park to Caldwell put > > just shy of 5 hours on the airplane and a bit more than 27 gallons through > the engine. For the bean counters, this was at close to 5500 rpm the whole > way with the first hour climbing from 1300 to 10,000 ft. > > Now we were a flight of seven and off to Smiley Creek. This 7,100 ft > elevation airport is on the Salmon River in the middle of the Sawtooth > Mountains. http://www.ruralnetwork.net/~smileyck/airport.html This is one > nice grass strip. The State of Idaho provides a full time caretaker that > takes his business seriously. Showers and a nearby restaurant provides all > an air camper needs. We lined up in the tiedown area near a Bonanza and a > C-206 and others and pitched our tents. Night time temps were in the low 20s > > with frost on the tents, windshields and wings by morning, but a little > sunshine in the AM took care of that and after a great breakfast at the > Lodge we were on our way. > > Departing Smiley Creek airport, we fly low over the meandering Salmon River > practicing our tight turns as the river flows north. As we flying north, the > > valley tightens into a canyon with the rim rising above us a thousand feet > or more with peaks to 10,000 ft. on either side. About 20 miles north of > Smiley Creek, still on the Salmon, the Stanley airport - grass and gravel - > marks the eastern turn of the river as it follows the canyon eastward > another 20 miles where the river again turns northward to Challis. Challis > is in more open country, grass land rather than timbered, with lots of > irrigated farmland touching the river's bank. Challis is a fuel stop where > we once again top off the tanks. > > A note here, The Kitfoxes in the group have never used more than half their > fuel on any leg as the Rans airplanes have smaller tanks and the fuel > management is usually to their needs leaving the Kitfoxes with lots of > reserves. Discussing this design difference, we arrived at the conclusion > that the Kitfox is a western creation with lots of wide open spaces and the > Rans out of the Midwest with an airport around every corner, hence fuel and > lots of it is designed into the Kitfox. > > Challis is a fun place for me as I once had a dental assistant who had grand > > kids there on a farm near the river and trying to find it from the air is a > nice diversion. > > We follow the Salmon northward from Challis about 35 miles, past Lemhi and > North Fork where the river turns westward where it will eventually merge > with the Snake a bit above Hells Canyon on it's way to become part of the > Columbia River outflow. Twenty miles north of North Fork we fly over 6,900 > ft. Gibbons pass where we enter the Bitter Root watershed and follow that > river to Hamilton where we will once again spend the night. > > A friendly competition between two FBOs there gives us great fuel prices, > and a 24 hour FBO with computer, TV, hot showers and would you believe a > restaurant. Also enough lawn to pitch seven tents and courtesy cars to boot. > > When we got there the restaurant was closed and we learned later that the > afternoon cook was the owners wife and she walked that day because as he > explained, she was divorcing him - at least that is the way he told it. > After tying down our airplanes, again on grass, we grabbed the courtesy cars > > to try to find a restaurant in town where most of us got sick the last time > there. That time the flight was in reverse order and after eating there and > barfing all night from both ends we flew to Smiley Creek where those > affected did the rapid quick step to the johns as soon as the airplanes > rolled to a stop. > > Anyway we found the restaurant and I ordered the same thing I had last time, > > the 12 oz hamburger special with about a half pound of sauteed mushrooms. > Nearly too much to eat, but it got et. The next morning we had breakfast at > the FBO's restaurant as payback for the great night's sleep. No one got sick > > this time and it was while there that we heard of the Polson Fly-in at a > great little airport on the southern edge of Flathead Lake near Polson, > Montana. This is a great fly-in. Lots of airplanes flown by common folk like > > you and me. On registering we found that PICs got a free breakfast for their > > trouble so by ten 0'clock we all had our second breakfast of the day. Good > too. > > >From Polson it was across the mountains to the west to Thompson Falls > another fuel stop then to Elk River for the night. > > http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=11&X=703&Y=6476&W=1 (you > may have to copy and paste this one.) > > Elk River is a grass? strip with enough length to accommodate rather healthy > > certified singles. We were the only ones there this day however and > proceeded immediately after tying down to walk the 100 yds to Huckleberry > Heaven for that legendary huckleberry milkshake. On a walk looking for a > cabin that was advertised to sleep 7 for forty bucks somewhere on E. 3rd > street we found the city park and seeing the grass under a couple of shady > trees, I knew where I belonged and that is where we spent the next hour > hangar talking and gossiping. (Larry and I were coming home early - we both > had family obligations - and it occurred to both of us that we would be fair > > game for just such a lazy time under another tree after we left. We love > each other, but we all have done things that make us notorious in our own > right and anyone not able to defend himself - and sometimes even if he can - > > is attack fodder) We never found the cabin, but we were able to get rooms in > > town for $40 a night per two pilots with a bathroom down the hall so that > was the plan. Dinner was at the restaurant across the street that managed > the rooms. We all had rib eye steaks, fresh corn on the cob, - the farmer > came peddling the corn as we were killing time in the closed restaurant - > baked potato, and raspberry-rhubarb cobbler. All this, and it was a big > steak, for$12.00. With bulging bellies once again we went down to the > airport for our pajamas and settled into our rooms. That evening after the > air outside cooled a bit we hiked up the street to an old abandoned school. > It was huge, three stories with a bell tower and lots of gables. I guess > built when the logging industry was booming, but sadly in a very poor state > of preservation and a multimillion dollar project if anyone was interested. > A bit of history that will eventually fade from the scene. > > Sleep was good and early the next morning I was in the shower expecting the > commotion to rouse everyone else, but as I walked back down the hall, I saw > Larry look up and wave and that was that for another hour. I was back in bed > > shortly and got another wink or two between mental projects that always come > > up during a long adventure like this. When we finally got everyone up it was > > back to the restaurant for everyone's usual breakfast and after packing the > airplanes it was a take off to the south. We made one low pass over the > airport with Larry and I continuing south and the others headed up to > Cavanaugh Bay on Priest lake. http://www.airnav.com/airport/66s > > Some pictures: http://www.nwaac.com/flyout_cavanaugh_bay_2004.htm > > For those old timers on the list it was to Cavanaugh Bay that John McBean > led a group after the 2005 Cameron Park fly-in. Larry and I didn't make it > this year, but the place deserves some recognition. It is one gorgeous > place. A fairway-like grass strip that you approach over the lake with one > tall pine right were it shouldn't be, but a long enough strip that the tree > really isn't a problem. Great grass for pitching a tent - last time there we > > were told that our camp spot became a lake when it rained and it was raining > > at the time - and a 50 yard walk to the lake and a great outdoor restaurant > right next to the runway threshold where we could eat good food while > watching the approaching traffic and the float planes coming and going. I > haven't heard from any of the guys that stayed, but I know it isn't raining. > > Their plan is to go to Port Hill where there is a neat grass strip that is a > > POE with customs office. You have to see it to believe it.. > > While the guys were off to Cavanaugh Bay, Larry and I were navigating > between the fire fighting TFRs back to Caldwell. We had great skies on the > Eastern side of Idaho as we flew north and smoke after smoke as we headed > south on the western Side. We stayed in Caldwell for the night at Mark's > house and at first light we were on our way home with a ten minute stop in > Winnemucca for fuel. We were home shortly after 1100 and it is great to be > home. > > Lowell > > > > > > > > > > > >
Lowell, great narrative in an area we enjoy. Every year my buddy and I say next year.  John Oakley, lets do it, I'll stop buy IF to link up and we can join them in Challis.
 
John Kerr
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "John Oakley" <john@leptron.com>

> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley"
>
> Ah Lowell,
> You talk so pretty. I am sorry I missed you guys again this year.
>
> John....see you soon.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:02 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Idaho Back Country
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>
> My apologies if this post surfaces again. I posted it early this morning
> and am trying again as I will be out of town again, this time for two weeks .
>
>
>
> A quick report on the Idaho trip.
>
> The California contingent left at first light on the 17th, or close to first
>
> light. AT 0530, Wray, (Model IV 912) got an early phone call telling us that
>
> the two from Westover - Larry, (Model IV 912) and Ken (Rans S-6 912S) were
> running a bit late. We got a heads-up at 6 that they were ready and we
> taxied up to our runway which put us about 10 minutes behind them and as
> usual it wasn't until Carson City - about an hour - that we made first
> visual contact. This part of the trip is always a tough one as we are
> Eastbound and as the sun rises it is right behind the compass, or should I
> say right beside the compass.
>
> This trip it was all business as our first night was to be at Smiley Creek
> so we did not fly the Rye Patch Dam outflow at tree top level preferring to
> make time to Winnemucca for a fuel stop. The FBO there is under new
> management the last couple of years and it is a nice place with good people.
>
> We are always remembered there even though we buy less than ten gallons of
> fuel each. With four airplanes to fuel and the normal potty stops it is 45
> minutes until we are off again for the stop at Caldwell for fuel and the
> hook up with Mark (Model IV 912) from Caldwell, Danny (Model V 912 ULS) from
>
> Tuskarora, and Hal (Rans S-7 912 UL with the high comp piston conversion)
> from Elko. As we taxied into the fueling area we heard Mark making pattern
> calls and he and Hal arrived from a local flight as we were fueling. Danny
> was already tied down and fueled. The trip from Cameron Park to Caldwell put
>
> just shy of 5 hours on the airplane and a bit more than 27 gallons through
> the engine. For the bean counters, this was at close to 550 0 rpm the whole
> way with the first hour climbing from 1300 to 10,000 ft.
>
> Now we were a flight of seven and off to Smiley Creek. This 7,100 ft
> elevation airport is on the Salmon River in the middle of the Sawtooth
> Mountains. http://www.ruralnetwork.net/~smileyck/airport.html This is one
> nice grass strip. The State of Idaho provides a full time caretaker that
> takes his business seriously. Showers and a nearby restaurant provides all
> an air camper needs. We lined up in the tiedown area near a Bonanza and a
> C-206 and others and pitched our tents. Night time temps were in the low 20s
>
> with frost on the tents, windshields and wings by morning, but a little
> sunshine in the AM took care of that and after a great breakfast at the
> Lodge we were on our way.
>
> Departing Smiley Creek airport, we fly low over the meandering Salmon River
> practicing our tight turns as the river flows north. As we flying north, the
>
> valley tightens into a canyon with the rim rising above us a thousand feet
> or more with peaks to 10,000 ft. on either side. About 20 miles north of
> Smiley Creek, still on the Salmon, the Stanley airport - grass and gravel -
> marks the eastern turn of the river as it follows the canyon eastward
> another 20 miles where the river again turns northward to Challis. Challis
> is in more open country, grass land rather than timbered, with lots of
> irrigated farmland touching the river's bank. Challis is a fuel stop where
> we once again top off the tanks.
>
> A note here, The Kitfoxes in the group have never used more than half their
> fuel on any leg as the Rans airplanes have smaller tanks and the fuel
> management is usually to their needs leaving the Kitfoxes with lots of
> reserves. Discussing this design differenc e, we arrived at the conclusion
> that the Kitfox is a western creation with lots of wide open spaces and the
> Rans out of the Midwest with an airport around every corner, hence fuel and
> lots of it is designed into the Kitfox.
>
> Challis is a fun place for me as I once had a dental assistant who had grand
>
> kids there on a farm near the river and trying to find it from the air is a
> nice diversion.
>
> We follow the Salmon northward from Challis about 35 miles, past Lemhi and
> North Fork where the river turns westward where it will eventually merge
> with the Snake a bit above Hells Canyon on it's way to become part of the
> Columbia River outflow. Twenty miles north of North Fork we fly over 6,900
> ft. Gibbons pass where we enter the Bitter Root watershed and follow that
> river to Hamilton where we will once again spend the night.
>
> A friendly competit ion be tween two FBOs there gives us great fuel prices,
> and a 24 hour FBO with computer, TV, hot showers and would you believe a
> restaurant. Also enough lawn to pitch seven tents and courtesy cars to boot.
>
> When we got there the restaurant was closed and we learned later that the
> afternoon cook was the owners wife and she walked that day because as he
> explained, she was divorcing him - at least that is the way he told it.
> After tying down our airplanes, again on grass, we grabbed the courtesy cars
>
> to try to find a restaurant in town where most of us got sick the last time
> there. That time the flight was in reverse order and after eating there and
> barfing all night from both ends we flew to Smiley Creek where those
> affected did the rapid quick step to the johns as soon as the airplanes
> rolled to a stop.
>
> Anyway we found the restaurant and I ordered the same t hing I had last time,
>
> the 12 oz hamburger special with about a half pound of sauteed mushrooms.
> Nearly too much to eat, but it got et. The next morning we had breakfast at
> the FBO's restaurant as payback for the great night's sleep. No one got sick
>
> this time and it was while there that we heard of the Polson Fly-in at a
> great little airport on the southern edge of Flathead Lake near Polson,
> Montana. This is a great fly-in. Lots of airplanes flown by common folk like
>
> you and me. On registering we found that PICs got a free breakfast for their
>
> trouble so by ten 0'clock we all had our second breakfast of the day. Good
> too.
>
> >From Polson it was across the mountains to the west to Thompson Falls
> another fuel stop then to Elk River for the night.
>
> http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=11&X=703&Y =6476& amp;W=1 (you
> may have to copy and paste this one.)
>
> Elk River is a grass? strip with enough length to accommodate rather healthy
>
> certified singles. We were the only ones there this day however and
> proceeded immediately after tying down to walk the 100 yds to Huckleberry
> Heaven for that legendary huckleberry milkshake. On a walk looking for a
> cabin that was advertised to sleep 7 for forty bucks somewhere on E. 3rd
> street we found the city park and seeing the grass under a couple of shady
> trees, I knew where I belonged and that is where we spent the next hour
> hangar talking and gossiping. (Larry and I were coming home early - we both
> had family obligations - and it occurred to both of us that we would be fair
>
> game for just such a lazy time under another tree after we left. We love
> each other, but we all have done things that make us notorious in our ow n
> right and anyone not able to defend himself - and sometimes even if he can -
>
> is attack fodder) We never found the cabin, but we were able to get rooms in
>
> town for $40 a night per two pilots with a bathroom down the hall so that
> was the plan. Dinner was at the restaurant across the street that managed
> the rooms. We all had rib eye steaks, fresh corn on the cob, - the farmer
> came peddling the corn as we were killing time in the closed restaurant -
> baked potato, and raspberry-rhubarb cobbler. All this, and it was a big
> steak, for$12.00. With bulging bellies once again we went down to the
> airport for our pajamas and settled into our rooms. That evening after the
> air outside cooled a bit we hiked up the street to an old abandoned school.
> It was huge, three stories with a bell tower and lots of gables. I guess
> built when the logging industry was booming, b ut sad ly in a very poor state
> of preservation and a multimillion dollar project if anyone was interested.
> A bit of history that will eventually fade from the scene.
>
> Sleep was good and early the next morning I was in the shower expecting the
> commotion to rouse everyone else, but as I walked back down the hall, I saw
> Larry look up and wave and that was that for another hour. I was back in bed
>
> shortly and got another wink or two between mental projects that always come
>
> up during a long adventure like this. When we finally got everyone up it was
>
> back to the restaurant for everyone's usual breakfast and after packing the
> airplanes it was a take off to the south. We made one low pass over the
> airport with Larry and I continuing south and the others headed up to
> Cavanaugh Bay on Priest lake. http://www.airnav.com/airport/66s
>
> Some pictures : http ://www.nwaac.com/flyout_cavanaugh_bay_2004.htm
>
> For those old timers on the list it was to Cavanaugh Bay that John McBean
> led a group after the 2005 Cameron Park fly-in. Larry and I didn't make it
> this year, but the place deserves some recognition. It is one gorgeous
> place. A fairway-like grass strip that you approach over the lake with one
> tall pine right were it shouldn't be, but a long enough strip that the tree
> really isn't a problem. Great grass for pitching a tent - last time there we
>
> were told that our camp spot became a lake when it rained and it was raining
>
> at the time - and a 50 yard walk to the lake and a great outdoor restaurant
> right next to the runway threshold where we could eat good food while
> watching the approaching traffic and the float planes coming and going. I
> haven't heard from any of the guys that stayed, but I know it isn't rain ing. < -= the ===== =========================
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:13 AM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Good grief you guys, what's with the kids on this group, thirties and forties wow, maybe we should out law them. :-) At least we have the saving grace of a lady among us.... that's cool. John Oakley 58 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Hastedt Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Margaret Hastedt" I'm a 43 yr. old woman and have built a Classic IV. But it ain't the years, it's the mileage! A little over half the 40 hours flown off now. Feels like it's taking forever... -Margaret H. College Station, TX >>> gerns25@netscape.net 08/21/06 7:23 PM >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" I am currently building a Series 7 and started wondering if there are any other builders located near Salt Lake City, Utah. Then I started wondering what the general demographic of our group looked like (age wise). I figured this would be a fun topic and I may get to now some of you better by putting it out there. I will start with myself...I am 30 and have owned a Model III and am currently building a Series 7 (almost finished with the Fuse). If there are any of you that are located near Salt Lake City, Utah let me know, I wouldn't mind some moral support/encouragement while building. Darin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56191#56191 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:16 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tri gear vs tailwheel for short take-off, was: Is a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" ken wrote: "I think I read on this list some time ago ( a year or more) that the nose wheel Kitfox can take off and land a little shorter than the tailwheel version" Ken, I believe this to be true. John McBean is likely the best authority on this subject. While I have not actually tested a tri-gear vs. tailwheel kitfox (partly because it's difficult to find two similarly configured) I do have some empirical evidence to support the idea that a trigear can take-off and land shorter... Recently, I switched tires from 600x6 to 850X6. The taller tires allow the wing to sit at a higher angle when on the ground in the 3 pt position. This higher angle allows my plane to take-off 75' shorter than before. (5100' elevation airport) Test were done on two subsequent days in identical conditions. I have commented about this wing angle issue before. The sitting position of the plane puts the wing at an angle that is well below the angle at which the wing will stall on landing. Because of this, a TRUE 3 pt, full stall landing in a kitfox (models 4 and higher are the ones I refer to here) will cause the tailwheel to touch down first. (by a significant amount in the kitfoxes I have flown) This angle also lengthens the take off roll. With wing sitting at this low angle, the plane must accelerate to a higher speed before liftoff than if the wing were at a higher angle. Now I realize that some people will comment that their kitfox can stall and land in 3 pt position without the tailwheel touching first (or at least not by a significant amount) But I would counter that by suggesting that your CG may be such that you don't have the elevator authority to really stall it hard, especially in ground effect. Following this logic, a tri-gear plane could rotate so that the wing is at the optimum angle for short take-offs and landings, thus outperforming a similar tailwheel airplane. In addition to this, a trigear plane has less drag initially in the takeoff roll, thus allowing it to accelerate faster. Despite this, I would never switch to a tri gear airplane because many of the off-airport places that I land would leave a tri gear fox with it's nose buried in the ground. There is a nice article on STOL aircraft design on the Zenair web site: http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/design/design.html Best Regards, Cliff S5, Erie, CO I think I read on this list some time ago ( a year or more) that the nose wheel Kitfox can take off and land a little shorter than the tailwheel version because of the ability to get a little more rotation and thus a greater angle of attack. Does anyone else remember that discussion? I made the tailwheel decision and purchased the parts before I heard about this. That being said I am staying with the tailwheel - logic aside. I have tailwheel experience, I like the looks, and I like being in the fraternity of the few pilots who fly tailwheel airplanes. Ken Jones ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:48 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Mark: Skystar once offered the Kitfox 2 Lite. It is my understanding that it was a Model IV that was kept light during construction. Model III fuselage is lighter than Model IV. It should be possible! However, I don't know any case. It will certainly have less climb that a 582 powered KF III. However, I will not be surprised if cruising is similar. Jose --- "Anliker, Mark" wrote: > Anyone with a Model 3 (or similar) flying with a > Rotax 503 engine > installation? I have a friend who just bought a > Model 3 w/o engine, and > he's "kicking around" installing a 503. Does anyone > have experience > with this airframe and engine combination? Is it > underpowered with two > up? > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:11 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" I was informed today by my instructor that the FAA would not allow me to take my check ride for my license in a Kitfox. Some business about it being too much like an ultralight... Sounded fishy to me. I this true? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56708#56708 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:41 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" What is the relation between child sex trade industry and a Kitfox? Is it this being discussed in the right forum? I don't think so! Jos --- John Galt wrote: > Hello Ted: > > You misunderstood me. I am saying kitfox owners have > the same > responsiblities as the rest of society. That is what > the "get out of jail > free" comment was about. Owning a kitfox does not > excuse ones actions, be > they direct or indirect, in the bigger picture. > > We clear? > > Thanks > > John > > > On 8/22/06, Ted Palamarek > wrote: > > > > John > > > > > > > > I don't usually reply to statements such as yours. > But I take offence to > > the fact that you may be suggesting that because a > lot of us own a Kitfox we > > somehow contribute to what may be going on in > Thailand. Innuendos such as > > this have no place on this list and suggest you > curtail any further comments > > in this regard. That is my humble opinion. > > > > > > > > Ted Palamarek > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto: > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf > Of *John Galt > > *Sent:* August 22, 2006 12:17 PM > > *To:* Lowell Fitt; kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? > > > > > > > > Hello Lowell: > > > > > > > > Yes, I am unhappy when I see people contributing > to the child sex trade > > industry. Doesn't matter to me if the party owns a > kitfox or not! Kitfox > > ownership is not a get out of jail free card. > > > > > > > > I take it by the condescending tone of your > message, those not willing > > to overpay for a used Kitfox are not allowed on > this list? Like it or not, > > it is a buyer's market for airplanes, let alone > experimentals. Doesn't > > matter what you ask for a product, what matters is > what the buyer is willing > > to pay. It is a testament to feeble mindedness > that someone would get hate > > mail for pricing their kitfox "too low". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/21/06, *Lowell Fitt* > wrote: > > > > John, Just curious, what is your interest in the > Kitfox list. It doesn't > > seem that you have much knowledge regarding the > airplane and your posts > > seem > > rather bitter in tone. Are you unhappy? > > > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Galt" > > To: < kitfox-list@matronics.com> > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 1:37 PM > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? > > > > > > >I really don't think very much of the child sex > trade. > > > > > > On 8/19/06, WBL < aeromer@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL > > > >> > > >> Is Michel Gordillo still on the Kitfox list? I > believe that he landed > > in > > >> Thailand on his epic Madrid to Oshkosh flight > in 1998 and connected > > with > > >> some Kitfox builders in South Asia. I have met > Kitfoxers in many > > >> countries > > >> around the world. A Google search usually > comes up with aircraft type > > >> clubs, etc. AeroMer N102KM (tail dragger with > amphib floats in the > > near > > >> future) > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> >From: Colin Durey > > >> >Sent: Aug 19, 2006 4:13 PM > > >> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > >> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? > > >> > > > >> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin > Durey" < colin@ptclhk.com> > > >> > > > >> >Hi Guys!, > > >> > > > >> > I'm about to do a work stint in Thailand for > the next couple of > > months > > >> >(there goes the building schedule), and was > wondering if anyone knows > > of > > >> >any Kitfoxes flying in Thailand. If there are > any there, I'd like to > > try > > >> >and make contact to see if I can both look > over their a/c and, if > > >> >possible, do a bit of flying. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Regards > > >> > > > >> >Colin Durey > > >> >Sydney > > >> >+61-418-677073 (M) > > >> >+61-2-945466162 (F) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > * * > > > > * * > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > ** > > > > * * > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:54 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Check Ride in a Kitfox? From: "spudnuts" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "spudnuts" Sounds weird but I don't know for sure. Who is your DPE? Ask him. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56720#56720 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:37 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? From: John Galt I realize these religious zealots exist in any vocation, so it will not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole point is the market sets the price, not some over zealous evangelist, no matter how well intentioned they may be. RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS EVANGELIST... I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. No telling what I'll hear next. Fly alone young man. Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:48 AM PST US From: Tony Clark Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Age deke? so you still remember her ? a little history for you..... the third owner (florida) was ex military and painted your pretty yellow plane this gosh awful camo scheme.... i purchased it at a good price and flew it til the next annual at which time i went all the way thru it, including a new paint job.... back to yellow with orange trim....i ended up putting about 175 hours on the plane. little kids loved the plane... they called it an army plane, but the guys i flew with always complained because if i was below them, they would lose me because of the lack of contrasting colors with the ground and trees. especially dangerous on short finals over trees. i decided to sell her bacause of the limited fuel range. i put her up for sale and a mexican bought the plane, sight unseen. we met in arizona and he took her south of the border to add it to his other 3 planes. he planned to use it for beach flying. the plane was approaching 1000 total hours when i sold it. the engine was zero timed once... i think it was on its third set of tires, 2nd windshield, the doors were recovered with full plexiglass, and those aluminum fuel tanks had to be slosh sealed twice due to stress cracks. it sputtered a couple of times at altitude from trash in the gas during 175 hours of flying time, but i never had the engine die on me. i did make a hasty landing once after a hose clamp loosened and i lost some of the engine coolant. after several owners and nearly a 1000 hours, she was going strong. you should be very proud of your construction, even if it is 700 miles south of the border now. i've attached a photo of how she looked when i sold it. Fox5flyer wrote: Hi Tony. Where did my "baby" go off to this time? Deke Morisse Mikado MI do not archive --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:29 AM PST US From: vft@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? I believe the decision is left up to the examiner. I took my PP check our ride in N24ZM back in "98. My instructor took the examiner around the pattern a few times to check her out in the Kitfox and when they landed I hopped in and we did the check ride. On the way back to the airport she informed me that she would do the flying and landing. I thought I must have messed something up badly as she seemed not to want me to fly any more. She bounced it and then turned to me and said "congratulations, your a pilot, we'll just tell them you did the landing". Turns out she liked Kitfox so well she just wanted to fly it some more:) PS: I sure miss that airplane:( Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: wingnut@spamarrest.com Sent: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 1:04 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" I was informed today by my instructor that the FAA would not allow me to take my check ride for my license in a Kitfox. Some business about it being too much like an ultralight... Sounded fishy to me. I this true? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56708#56708 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:19 AM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Idaho Back Country John Kerr, I have been in the same mind set. We will do it next year. My girl friend and I are also talking about Alaska, any one in a mind set for that trip? John Oakley _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kerrjohna@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Idaho Back Country Lowell, great narrative in an area we enjoy. Every year my buddy and I say next year. John Oakley, lets do it, I'll stop buy IF to link up and we can join them in Challis. John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- From: "John Oakley" > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" > > Ah Lowell, > You talk so pretty. I am sorry I missed you guys again this year. > > John....see you soon. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:02 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Idaho Back Country > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > My apologies if this post surfaces again. I posted it early this morning > and am trying again as I will be out of town again, this time for two weeks . > > > > A quick report on the Idaho trip. > > The California contingent left at first light on the 17th, or close to first > > light. AT 0530, Wray, (Model IV 912) got an early phone call telling us that > > the two from Westover - Larry, (Model IV 912) and Ken (Rans S-6 912S) were > running a bit late. We got a heads-up at 6 that they were ready and we > taxied up to our runway which put us about 10 minutes behind them and as > usual it wasn't until Carson City - about an hour - that we made first > visual contact. This part of the trip is always a tough one as we are > Eastbound and as the sun rises it is right behind the compass, or should I > say right beside the compass. > > This trip it was all business as our first night was to be at Smiley Creek > so we did not fly the Rye Patch Dam outflow at tree top level preferring to > make time to Winnemucca for a fuel stop. The FBO there is under new > management the last couple of years and it is a nice place with good people. > > We are always remembered there even though we buy less than ten gallons of > fuel each. With four airplanes to fuel and the normal potty stops it is 45 > minutes until we are off again for the stop at Caldwell for fuel and the > hook up with Mark (Model IV 912) from Caldwell, Danny (Model V 912 ULS) from > > Tuskarora, and Hal (Rans S-7 912 UL with the high comp piston conversion) > from Elko. As we taxied into the fueling area we heard Mark making pattern > calls and he and Hal arrived from a local flight as we were fueling. Danny > was already tied down and fueled. The trip from Cameron Park to Caldwell put > > just shy of 5 hours on the airplane and a bit more than 27 gallons through > the engine. For the bean counters, this was at close to 550 0 rpm the whole > way with the first hour climbing from 1300 to 10,000 ft. > > Now we were a flight of seven and off to Smiley Creek. This 7,100 ft > elevation airport is on the Salmon River in the middle of the Sawtooth > Mountains. http://www.ruralnetwork.net/~smileyck/airport.html This is one > nice grass strip. The State of Idaho provides a full time caretaker that > takes his business seriously. Showers and a nearby restaurant provides all > an air camper needs. We lined up in the tiedown area near a Bonanza and a > C-206 and others and pitched our tents. Night time temps were in the low 20s > > with frost on the tents, windshields and wings by morning, but a little > sunshine in the AM took care of that and after a great breakfast at the > Lodge we were on our way. > > Departing Smiley Creek airport, we fly low over the meandering Salmon River > practicing our tight turns as the river flows north. As we flying north, the > > valley tightens into a canyon with the rim rising above us a thousand feet > or more with peaks to 10,000 ft. on either side. About 20 miles north of > Smiley Creek, still on the Salmon, the Stanley airport - grass and gravel - > marks the eastern turn of the river as it follows the canyon eastward > another 20 miles where the river again turns northward to Challis. Challis > is in more open country, grass land rather than timbered, with lots of > irrigated farmland touching the river's bank. Challis is a fuel stop where > we once again top off the tanks. > > A note here, The Kitfoxes in the group have never used more than half their > fuel on any leg as the Rans airplanes have smaller tanks and the fuel > management is usually to their needs leaving the Kitfoxes with lots of > reserves. Discussing this design differenc e, we arrived at the conclusion > that the Kitfox is a western creation with lots of wide open spaces and the > Rans out of the Midwest with an airport around every corner, hence fuel and > lots of it is designed into the Kitfox. > > Challis is a fun place for me as I once had a dental assistant who had grand > > kids there on a farm near the river and trying to find it from the air is a > nice diversion. > > We follow the Salmon northward from Challis about 35 miles, past Lemhi and > North Fork where the river turns westward where it will eventually merge > with the Snake a bit above Hells Canyon on it's way to become part of the > Columbia River outflow. Twenty miles north of North Fork we fly over 6,900 > ft. Gibbons pass where we enter the Bitter Root watershed and follow that > river to Hamilton where we will once again spend the night. > > A friendly competit ion be tween two FBOs there gives us great fuel prices, > and a 24 hour FBO with computer, TV, hot showers and would you believe a > restaurant. Also enough lawn to pitch seven tents and courtesy cars to boot. > > When we got there the restaurant was closed and we learned later that the > afternoon cook was the owners wife and she walked that day because as he > explained, she was divorcing him - at least that is the way he told it. > After tying down our airplanes, again on grass, we grabbed the courtesy cars > > to try to find a restaurant in town where most of us got sick the last time > there. That time the flight was in reverse order and after eating there and > barfing all night from both ends we flew to Smiley Creek where those > affected did the rapid quick step to the johns as soon as the airplanes > rolled to a stop. > > Anyway we found the restaurant and I ordered the same t hing I had last time, > > the 12 oz hamburger special with about a half pound of sauteed mushrooms. > Nearly too much to eat, but it got et. The next morning we had breakfast at > the FBO's restaurant as payback for the great night's sleep. No one got sick > > this time and it was while there that we heard of the Polson Fly-in at a > great little airport on the southern edge of Flathead Lake near Polson, > Montana. This is a great fly-in. Lots of airplanes flown by common folk like > > you and me. On registering we found that PICs got a free breakfast for their > > trouble so by ten 0'clock we all had our second breakfast of the day. Good > too. > > >From Polson it was across the mountains to the west to Thompson Falls > another fuel stop then to Elk River for the night. > > http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=11&X=703&Y =6476& amp;W=1 (you > may have to copy and paste this one.) > > Elk River is a grass? strip with enough length to accommodate rather healthy > > certified singles. We were the only ones there this day however and > proceeded immediately after tying down to walk the 100 yds to Huckleberry > Heaven for that legendary huckleberry milkshake. On a walk looking for a > cabin that was advertised to sleep 7 for forty bucks somewhere on E. 3rd > street we found the city park and seeing the grass under a couple of shady > trees, I knew where I belonged and that is where we spent the next hour > hangar talking and gossiping. (Larry and I were coming home early - we both > had family obligations - and it occurred to both of us that we would be fair > > game for just such a lazy time under another tree after we left. We love > each other, but we all have done things that make us notorious in our ow n > right and anyone not able to defend himself - and sometimes even if he can - > > is attack fodder) We never found the cabin, but we were able to get rooms in > > town for $40 a night per two pilots with a bathroom down the hall so that > was the plan. Dinner was at the restaurant across the street that managed > the rooms. We all had rib eye steaks, fresh corn on the cob, - the farmer > came peddling the corn as we were killing time in the closed restaurant - > baked potato, and raspberry-rhubarb cobbler. All this, and it was a big > steak, for$12.00. With bulging bellies once again we went down to the > airport for our pajamas and settled into our rooms. That evening after the > air outside cooled a bit we hiked up the street to an old abandoned school. > It was huge, three stories with a bell tower and lots of gables. I guess > built when the logging industry was booming, b ut sad ly in a very poor state > of preservation and a multimillion dollar project if anyone was interested. > A bit of history that will eventually fade from the scene. > > Sleep was good and early the next morning I was in the shower expecting the > commotion to rouse everyone else, but as I walked back down the hall, I saw > Larry look up and wave and that was that for another hour. I was back in bed > > shortly and got another wink or two between mental projects that always come > > up during a long adventure like this. When we finally got everyone up it was > > back to the restaurant for everyone's usual breakfast and after packing the > airplanes it was a take off to the south. We made one low pass over the > airport with Larry and I continuing south and the others headed up to > Cavanaugh Bay on Priest lake. http://www.airnav.com/airport/66s > > Some pictures : http ://www.nwaac.com/flyout_cavanaugh_bay_2004.htm > > For those old timers on the list it was to Cavanaugh Bay that John McBean > led a group after the 2005 Cameron Park fly-in. Larry and I didn't make it > this year, but the place deserves some recognition. It is one gorgeous > place. A fairway-like grass strip that you approach over the lake with one > tall pine right were it shouldn't be, but a long enough strip that the tree > really isn't a problem. Great grass for pitching a tent - last time there we > > were told that our camp spot became a lake when it rained and it was raining > > at the time - and a 50 yard walk to the lake and a great outdoor restaurant > right next to the runway threshold where we could eat good food while > watching the approaching traffic and the float planes coming and going. I > haven't heard from any of the guys that stayed, but I know it isn't rain ing. < -= the ====== ========================= > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:54 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) Thailand --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Aug 23, 2006, at 7:16 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > What is the relation between child sex trade industry and a Kitfox? None whatsoever, Jose, and I wrote to John, privately, to answer that. But since the discussion is still on the list, I'd like to add something, which I already told John: The only reason child sex trade in Thailand is known about is that the Thai authorities are doing something about it and jail pedophiles, nationals or foreigners - something not all countries have the guts to do. Thailand is a beautiful country with very friendly people. Their country shouldn't be associated with this infamous trade. I know about it because my wife and I are contributors to a Norwegian association (translated to "Save the Children") that, among other things, works for preventing child sex trade in underdeveloped countries and we are informed about the progress done in Thailand. We feel our contribution is worth every penny of it. Nobody is "sleeping with the dogs" by holidaying in Thailand, John! After the Tsunami disaster, nearly two years ago, the Thai people helped Scandinavian tourists before their own. While I lost a very good friend in the disaster, I will always be grateful to the Thai people for their kindness and helpfulness in a difficult moment. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:31 PM PST US From: Dave and Diane Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil Cooler Instructions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane Good afternoon, I am getting the engine systems in place (912 ULS in a 2004 model 7) and find that while Skyscam was kind enough to actually supply me with the oil cooler I paid for, they seem to have forgotten about the instructions that should have come with it. Anybody out who has the instructions and would be willing to share them please contact me off line. Thanks, Dave St Paul, MN ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:20 PM PST US From: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Nelson Goguen---76. I passed my 3rd class Medical in April so the FAA has given me 2 more years to finish my vixen, now it's up to God to go along with that. I'm almost finished but I'm working with a nephew who presents some good changes to the electrical system. Will have two batteries and a additional alternator-no vacuum pump. ----- Original Message ----- From: "darinh" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:30 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > Michel and all, > > I tallied up the responses so far and here are the results: > > Average age: 56.8 years > Youngest: 30 years (thats me) > Oldest: 85 years > > I gotta do something at work to keep me entertained [Wink] > > Darin > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56391#56391 > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:57 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: re: kitfox list: age Thank you Tony for the picture. Nice paint job. How could I forget something that I put that much of my life into building and flying? All good memories. Every minute of it. I hope Tweety is still being well cared for. Deke do not archive deke? so you still remember her ? a little history for you..... the third owner (florida) was ex military and painted your pretty yellow plane this gosh awful camo scheme.... i purchased it at a good price and flew it til the next annual at which time i went all the way thru it, including a new paint job.... back to yellow with orange trim....i ended up putting about 175 hours on the plane. little kids loved the plane... they called it an army plane, but the guys i flew with always complained because if i was below them, they would lose me because of the lack of contrasting colors with the ground and trees. especially dangerous on short finals over trees. i decided to sell her bacause of the limited fuel range. i put her up for sale and a mexican bought the plane, sight unseen. we met in arizona and he took her south of the border to add it to his other 3 planes. he planned to use it for beach flying. the plane was approaching 1000 total hours when i sold it. the engine was zero timed once... i think it was on its third set of tires, 2nd windshield, the doors were recovered with full plexiglass, and those aluminum fuel tanks had to be slosh sealed twice due to stress cracks. it sputtered a couple of times at altitude from trash in the gas during 175 hours of flying time, but i never had the engine die on me. i did make a hasty landing once after a hose clamp loosened and i lost some of the engine coolant. after several owners and nearly a 1000 hours, she was going strong. you should be very proud of your construction, even if it is 700 miles south of the border now. i've attached a photo of how she looked when i sold it. Fox5flyer wrote: Hi Tony. Where did my "baby" go off to this time? Deke Morisse Mikado MI do not archive ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Font sizes From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson That didn't work for me Rex and Dave...but then I buck the tide by using a Mac. I can go to font size and increase the size of the offending post, but then what would I have to complain about? : ) Strangely enough, if I were to reply to one of these hard-to-read, 10-point posts, my mail system automatically increases the font size to that which I have set for my system, which is 12-point...so even my mail system recognizes that 10-point is too small. Lynn On Wednesday, August 23, 2006, at 07:16 AM, Rexster wrote: > Thanks Dave. > > It works! > > > Rex in Michigan > > > > > --"Dave"wrote: > -->Kitfox-Listmessagepostedby:"Dave" > > Lynn, > > IuseoutlookexpressformailandtoadjustfontsizeIjustholddown > CTRL > buttonandrollthemousewheelonmessageanditchangessize. > OralternatewouldbeclickonView==>Textsize==>selectfontsi > ze > youlike > > Dave > > > -----OriginalMessage----- > From:"LynnMatteson" > To: > Sent:Tuesday,August22,200610:22PM > Subject:Kitfox-List:Fontsizes > > > >-->Kitfox-Listmessagepostedby:LynnMatteson > > > >Heyguysandgals,howaboutgivingthisoldmanabreakandnotuse > those > >stinkin'little10sizeletteringthathavebeencroppingupherelat > ely. > >Forsomereason,alotofmailhasbeencominginusingthattiny,ha > rdto > >readsize.Itdoesn'tcostanymoretousea12,andthesetiredeyes > > >wouldappreciateit.:) > >Andit'snotjustmyreader,ormycomputer,assomemessagescontain > size > >10,12,andeven14whenquotingotherposters. > > > >Thanks, > >Lynn > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:41 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Nelson: If you certify that Vixen with a gross weight of 1320 pounds, you could fly it as a sport pilot, and won't need to have a medical. Most likely you know this, however, I want to make sure you are aware of this option. Jose --- Mr NELSON GOGUEN wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON > GOGUEN" > > Nelson Goguen---76. I passed my 3rd class Medical > in April so the FAA has > given me 2 more years to finish my vixen, now it's > up to God to go along > with that. I'm almost finished but I'm working with > a nephew who presents > some good changes to the electrical system. Will > have two batteries and a > additional alternator-no vacuum pump. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "darinh" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:30 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? > (you can lie if you > want ;-) > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > > > > Michel and all, > > > > I tallied up the responses so far and here are the > results: > > > > Average age: 56.8 years > > Youngest: 30 years (thats me) > > Oldest: 85 years > > > > I gotta do something at work to keep me > entertained [Wink] > > > > Darin > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56391#56391 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:11 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Danny: I took a picture of this plane in Sun&Fun 97, one month before I bought my Kitfox. It was literally a "magazine aircraft". As a matter of fact, I remember seen it in ACS catalog and EAA magazine. Most likely, still have a copy. No doubt I'm a fan of the checkered tail Kitfox. Jose --- vft@aol.com wrote: > I believe the decision is left up to the examiner. I > took my PP check our ride in N24ZM back in "98. My > instructor took the examiner around the pattern a > few times to check her out in the Kitfox and when > they landed I hopped in and we did the check ride. > On the way back to the airport she informed me that > she would do the flying and landing. I thought I > must have messed something up badly as she seemed > not to want me to fly any more. She bounced it and > then turned to me and said "congratulations, your a > pilot, we'll just tell them you did the landing". > Turns out she liked Kitfox so well she just wanted > to fly it some more:) > > PS: I sure miss that airplane:( > > Danny Melnik > F1 #25 > Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wingnut@spamarrest.com > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 1:04 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > > I was informed today by my instructor that the FAA > would not allow me to take my > check ride for my license in a Kitfox. Some business > about it being too much > like an ultralight... Sounded fishy to me. I this > true? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56708#56708 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:44 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Kitfox-List: Need a 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" Hi Listers, A good friend is in need of a good 582 for his newly purchased Model 3. Anybody know of one? Ron N55KF Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:50 PM PST US From: "Rexster" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? John Galt, Have you checked into some good counseling in your area? Nobody on thi s list seems to have a clue how you have connected Kifox flyers with sex trade and/or religious zealots. I would guess that this issue isn't the only termoil you have going on in your head. Please stay off of this fo rum unless you're here for the intended purpose. Rex in Michigan -- "Don Smythe" wrote: From: John Galt I realize these religious zealots exist in any vocation, so it will not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole point is the marke t sets the price, not some over zealous evangelist, no matter how well i ntentioned they may be. RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS EVANGELIST. ..I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. No telling what I'll hear ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ====

John Galt,

  Have you checked into some good counseling in your area? Nobod y on this list seems to have a clue how you have connected Kifox flyers with sex trade and/or religious zealots. I would guess that this issue i sn't the only termoil you have going on in your head. Please stay off of this forum unless you're here for the intended purpose.

Rex in Michigan

-- "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@co x.net> wrote:

From: John Galt
I realize these religious zealots exist in any vocation, so it will not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole po int is the market sets the price, not some over zealous evangelist, no m atter how well intentioned they may be.
 
RELI GIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS EVANGELIST...
I do n't think I'll respond anymore to this.  No telling what I'll hear next.  Fly alone young man.
 
Don Smythe


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________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:07 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Need a 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Rotax has an exchange program and a pretty good deal if you want a new one and trade in your old one. I would not buy a used 582 as who knows it's history. Many guy will claim a rebuild and it never had a new crank. You get what you pay for and sometimes trying to save a few bucks will end up costing more when it all said and done. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Liebmann" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Need a 582 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" > > Hi Listers, > > A good friend is in need of a good 582 for his newly purchased Model 3. > Anybody know of one? > > Ron N55KF > > > Do Not Archive > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:41 PM PST US From: "Kevin Cozik" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kevin Cozik" 38 years old. Kevin S6 in mid Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: "john perry" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 2:09 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john perry" > > > Hello fellers and ladies . A kitfoxer here in middle America where the age > of the owner is a young 38 . Hopefully flying forever . > > Take care fly safe fly low fly slow > John Perry > N718PD Kitfox 2 > 582, c box 2:62-1 > GSC / Ivo inflight > Going on floats soon > > > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:34 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in Thailand? From: "RichWill" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" So...to get back to the original question.. Yes, there are some Kitfoxes in Thailand. I go work/go there often for my job.. I travel between Bangkok and Laem Chabang Industrial zone near Pattaya Beach.. There is a small airport just outside of Pattaya where I have seen small "kit type" aircraft.. Its on the right head south towards Pattaya,, maybe 30KMs out.. Try there and good luck.. I will be there again in Sept and may stop by myself.. Rich -------- Semper Fi 15 ITT G2 HqCo HqBn 1st MarDiv Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56795#56795 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:55 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil Cooler Installation (??) From: "RichWill" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" I just purchased a new oil cooler from Williams Aviation in AZ.. Recv'd the parts , cooler, connects and brackets, but there is no drawing for installation. Has anyone installed this type cooler on your 912, under the gear box? Does anyone have a picture or drawing of how the brackets connect to the engine ? Thanks Rich -------- Semper Fi 15 ITT G2 HqCo HqBn 1st MarDiv Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56798#56798 ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:05 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? From: "RichWill" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" I wouldn't do it! Unless you are a 100lb pilot, will never take up another passenger, won't fly in hot humid weather... you'd be pushing the envelope.. Don't get me wrong.. the 503 is a great engine.. but a normal Model 3 with fuel and pilot is going to be a load for a 503.. my two cents Rich -------- Semper Fi 15 ITT G2 HqCo HqBn 1st MarDiv Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56800#56800 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:31 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerous? From: "RichWill" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" Tail-draggers are NOT inherently dangerous... Pilots are !!! -------- Semper Fi 15 ITT G2 HqCo HqBn 1st MarDiv Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56801#56801 ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:15 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is a taildragger dangerous? You should have asked him to be specific on the kinds of accidents and specifically injuries incurred by float planes. Are we talking gear down landing in water on amphibs? Possibly the same amphib float gear up on the runway? How about denting a float on a submerged rock? or falling off a float while trying to dock? There seem to be more dangers only because floats give you the opportunity to go more places. Try them sometime you'll love 'em! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Oakley Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Is a taildragger dangerous? When I bought my fox in 92 I made the mistake of taking my wife into the insurance guys office, he explained to her that a tail dragger was four times more likely to have a mishap than the tricycle gear and the amphip float equipped fox like yours is 5 times more likely to have a mishap than the tail dragger.. she looked at him with big eyes and said " our float plane is 20 times more likely to have a mishap than the tricycle gear 182 ? " he nodded and hummm,.. Like Walter Mitty , we never did fly the floats. John Oakley _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Baltrusaitis Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is a taildragger dangerous? I was disappointed when I read "How to Fly a Kitfox" by Edward Downs on page 13: "In general, a less skilled tri-gear pilot has about the same statistical safety record as a skilled taildragger pilot." I thought I could be better than that. ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:30 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: Age Wonderful !!! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HMDOUD Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:02 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: Age Subject: Age In response to the email regarding Kitfiox owner's ages. Tho I feel a young 102............. I'm really 78, or is it 87?........Keep fergettin'.......... Flyin' a Kitfox 4..........I think..........with a 582 blue head....... (or red?) Like to fly with the door open down here, watchin' all them little people and little cars..........but yuh shor gotta be careful spittin' tubacci juice. Yup! figured it out.............Somebody keeps moving the airporrt, when I'm flyin'. Went to the Doc the other day, 'bout my fergettin' problem..........s'plained about fergettin'..........Doc, asked some questions fer a coupla minutes and asked me how long I'd had my problem.....I said, what problem? D'juh ever walk in the next room and wonder why yuh went there? Got this little invisible man, who folllows me around and when I lay sumpin' down.....the turkey moves it. Bent down to tie my shoe and wondered if there wasn't sumpin' else I could do, while I was down there. Time for my nap.......Mighta already had it? ...............Just looked in the mirror.and it broke. Anyway.glad to talk at all you ...............Foxkiters.............I 'member now.It's 78 years.........Goin' on 102. Foxkit ........Herb ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:33 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Font sizes --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" If GM made cars like Apple makes Macs they would be three times faster.... But could only travel on 10% of the roads. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Lynn Matteson > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:40 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Font sizes > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > That didn't work for me Rex and Dave...but then I buck the tide by > using a Mac. I can go to font size and increase the size of the > offending post, but then what would I have to complain about? : ) > Strangely enough, if I were to reply to one of these hard-to-read, > 10-point posts, my mail system automatically increases the > font size to > that which I have set for my system, which is 12-point...so even my > mail system recognizes that 10-point is too small. > > Lynn > > On Wednesday, August 23, 2006, at 07:16 AM, Rexster wrote: > > > Thanks Dave. > > > > It works! > > > > > > Rex in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > --"Dave"wrote: > > -->Kitfox-Listmessagepostedby:"Dave" > > > > Lynn, > > > > IuseoutlookexpressformailandtoadjustfontsizeI > justholddown > > CTRL > > buttonandrollthemousewheelonmessageanditchangessize. > > OralternatewouldbeclickonView==>Textsize==> > selectfontsi > > ze > > youlike > > > > Dave > > > > > > -----OriginalMessage----- > > From:"LynnMatteson" > > To: > > Sent:Tuesday,August22,200610:22PM > > Subject:Kitfox-List:Fontsizes > > > > > > >-->Kitfox-Listmessagepostedby:LynnMatteson > > > > > > >Heyguysandgals,howaboutgivingthisoldmanabreak > andnotuse > > those > > >stinkin'little10sizeletteringthathavebeencropping > upherelat > > ely. > > >Forsomereason,alotofmailhasbeencominginusing > thattiny,ha > > rdto > > >readsize.Itdoesn'tcostanymoretousea12,and > thesetiredeyes > > > > >wouldappreciateit.:) > > >Andit'snotjustmyreader,ormycomputer,assome > messagescontain > > size > > >10,12,andeven14whenquotingotherposters. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Lynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:59 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? Mark, I built and flew a Model IV XL Series with a 503DCDI with a 3 blade ground adjust GSC for 5 years. The kit was sold by Skystar with that engine option. My empty weight was around 530 pounds, and useful load was 420. I was pleased with the performance for a 52hp bird, it would get off the ground faster than the 150 I was previously flying, about 500' on grass and 200 on pavement (or less with a head wind). I have flown all my children in it but not enough gross for me and my wife, I am 6' 2" 220 pounds. I flew the plane into Oshkosh Airventure 3 times and I was loaded to the max when I did it. It had two 6 gal wing tanks and a custom 10 gal aluminum header tank behind the panel. I would get 70 MPH cruise at 5900 RPM climb was at 55 MPH @ 6400 RPM and I would get about 700' / min with me in it, had wheel pants but no strut fairings. Was pleased with the engines reliability, when it would get very hot, (like airventure time) I would have to make a jet change to maximize engine performance. Was a blast to fly, but then I think they all are. Is it the best engine for the 3, I don't know, If the price is right and the numbers fit it might for now. I am building a 5 with a 912, I am sure I will like it better but I have nothing but fond memories of my 4 with the 503 in it. Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Anliker, Mark To: Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:12 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? Anyone with a Model 3 (or similar) flying with a Rotax 503 engine installation? I have a friend who just bought a Model 3 w/o engine, and he's "kicking around" installing a 503. Does anyone have experience with this airframe and engine combination? Is it underpowered with two up? ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:33 PM PST US From: "John Galt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in Thailand? Thanks Rich. On 8/23/06, RichWill wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" > > So...to get back to the original question.. Yes, there are some Kitfoxes > in Thailand. I go work/go there often for my job.. I travel between Bangkok > and Laem Chabang Industrial zone near Pattaya Beach.. There is a small > airport just outside of Pattaya where I have seen small "kit type" > aircraft.. Its on the right head south towards Pattaya,, maybe 30KMs out.. > > Try there and good luck.. I will be there again in Sept and may stop by > myself.. > > Rich > > -------- > Semper Fi > 15 ITT > G2 HqCo HqBn > 1st MarDiv > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56795#56795 > > ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:15 PM PST US From: "John Galt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I look for Kitfoxes to buy or is even that frowned upon by the list crumogeons on here? Too bad you were not reading the thread, you would have figured out what I was talking about. I was objecting to the list zealots attacking a man (not me) for "pricing his kitfox too low". If anyone needs counseling, it is them. Or perhaps a one way ticket to Thailand. On 8/23/06, Rexster wrote: > > John Galt, > > Have you checked into some good counseling in your area? Nobody on this > list seems to have a clue how you have connected Kifox flyers with sex trade > and/or religious zealots. I would guess that this issue isn't the only > termoil you have going on in your head. Please stay off of this forum unless > you're here for the intended purpose. > > Rex in Michigan > > -- "Don Smythe" wrote: > *From:* John Galt > > I realize these religious zealots exist in any vocation, so it will not > cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole point is the market sets the price, > not some over zealous evangelist, no matter how well intentioned they may > be. > > RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS EVANGELIST... > I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. No telling what I'll hear > next. Fly alone young man. > > Don Smythe > > * > > =================================== > ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ====================================tronics.com > ====================================ics.com > ====================================www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > * > > * > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://wiki.matronics.com > * > > ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:39 PM PST US From: "Paul" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul" I took my private test in my model IV. ( and pased) Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:04 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > I was informed today by my instructor that the FAA would not allow me to > take my check ride for my license in a Kitfox. Some business about it > being too much like an ultralight... Sounded fishy to me. I this true? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56708#56708 > > > ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:12 PM PST US From: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Thanks Jose, I was aware of the 1320 option and that is my plan. I want to get my private certificate for my own gratification and ego, then the sport pilot license before the next medical is due. I'm probably the oldest student pilot on the list. Indecently, I don't know why the Mr. comes before my name when I post a message. I sent an e-mail to Matt Dralle to eliminate that, but I guess it did not work. Fly safe, Nelson do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose M. Toro" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > Nelson: > > If you certify that Vixen with a gross weight of 1320 > pounds, you could fly it as a sport pilot, and won't > need to have a medical. Most likely you know this, > however, I want to make sure you are aware of this > option. > > Jose > > --- Mr NELSON GOGUEN wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON >> GOGUEN" >> >> Nelson Goguen---76. I passed my 3rd class Medical >> in April so the FAA has >> given me 2 more years to finish my vixen, now it's >> up to God to go along >> with that. I'm almost finished but I'm working with >> a nephew who presents >> some good changes to the electrical system. Will >> have two batteries and a >> additional alternator-no vacuum pump. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "darinh" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:30 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? >> (you can lie if you >> want ;-) >> >> >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" >> >> > >> > Michel and all, >> > >> > I tallied up the responses so far and here are the >> results: >> > >> > Average age: 56.8 years >> > Youngest: 30 years (thats me) >> > Oldest: 85 years >> > >> > I gotta do something at work to keep me >> entertained [Wink] >> > >> > Darin >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56391#56391 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> browse >> Subscriptions page, >> FAQ, >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> >> Web Forums! >> >> >> Admin. >> >> >> >> >> > > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:50 PM PST US From: Malcolmbru@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? In Michigan last week 2 friends of mine took there check rides in a quicksilver the faa examiners name is Walter Plenteous malcolm kf2 582 ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:14 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Consider that some people, I'm one, who didn't figure out your original comment in relation pricing a plane. Consider also the ire, make that blind rage, the words "child sex trade", would invoke! Maybe it's time to close the book on this one. You can buy my model III-A 582"B" box w/ Ivo in flight three blade UL Aerocet floats and straight skis wheels if you want 'em..... Bring money..... Big MONEY! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Galt Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I look for Kitfoxes to buy or is even that frowned upon by the list crumogeons on here? Too bad you were not reading the thread, you would have figured out what I was talking about. I was objecting to the list zealots attacking a man (not me) for "pricing his kitfox too low". If anyone needs counseling, it is them. Or perhaps a one way ticket to Thailand. On 8/23/06, Rexster wrote: John Galt, Have you checked into some good counseling in your area? Nobody on this list seems to have a clue how you have connected Kifox flyers with sex trade and/or religious zealots. I would guess that this issue isn't the only termoil you have going on in your head. Please stay off of this forum unless you're here for the intended purpose. Rex in Michigan -- "Don Smythe" wrote: From: John Galt I realize these religious zealots exist in any vocation, so it will not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole point is the market sets the price, not some over zealous evangelist, no matter how well intentioned they may be. RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS EVANGELIST... I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. No telling what I'll hear next. Fly alone young man. Don Smythe tronics.com ics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:15 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? Good report on the 503. I just replaced a 503 single carb in a Kitfox 1 this week. I broke the engine in today and test flew it for 30 mins. Will retorque heads tomorrow. This one weighs about 410 lbs and performs well solo and dual with 2 @ 200 each will fly fine but not a hot rod. A model three i think has a 1050 gross and I think the 503 would make is underpowered but would fly. The biggest problem is that you would miss all the fun you could have with a 582 giving near 50% more HP and will give you an excellent performer both solo and dual. What would be reason to choose a 503 over a 582 ? Does he need engine mount as well? I did email a guy that had a complete FWF package for a Kitfox 582 for sale but I do not have his info anymore. I think i got it from Green sky aviation but I am not 100% sure. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Cudnohufsky's To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? Mark, I built and flew a Model IV XL Series with a 503DCDI with a 3 blade ground adjust GSC for 5 years. The kit was sold by Skystar with that engine option. My empty weight was around 530 pounds, and useful load was 420. I was pleased with the performance for a 52hp bird, it would get off the ground faster than the 150 I was previously flying, about 500' on grass and 200 on pavement (or less with a head wind). I have flown all my children in it but not enough gross for me and my wife, I am 6' 2" 220 pounds. I flew the plane into Oshkosh Airventure 3 times and I was loaded to the max when I did it. It had two 6 gal wing tanks and a custom 10 gal aluminum header tank behind the panel. I would get 70 MPH cruise at 5900 RPM climb was at 55 MPH @ 6400 RPM and I would get about 700' / min with me in it, had wheel pants but no strut fairings. Was pleased with the engines reliability, when it would get very hot, (like airventure time) I would have to make a jet change to maximize engine performance. Was a blast to fly, but then I think they all are. Is it the best engine for the 3, I don't know, If the price is right and the numbers fit it might for now. I am building a 5 with a 912, I am sure I will like it better but I have nothing but fond memories of my 4 with the 503 in it. Lloyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Anliker, Mark To: Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:12 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with a 503 "Do-able"? Anyone with a Model 3 (or similar) flying with a Rotax 503 engine installation? I have a friend who just bought a Model 3 w/o engine, and he's "kicking around" installing a 503. Does anyone have experience with this airframe and engine combination? Is it underpowered with two up? ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:55 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Better tell him that an Ultralight weighs about 254 lbs . ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:04 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Check Ride in a Kitfox? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > I was informed today by my instructor that the FAA would not allow me to > take my check ride for my license in a Kitfox. Some business about it > being too much like an ultralight... Sounded fishy to me. I this true? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56708#56708 > > > ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:53 PM PST US From: "Jay Carter" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Carter" List, Way back when in mechanics school at Navy Memphis, students were told that fuel ratings above 100 were performance numbers. 115/145, 100/130, rich and lean. As for Newfoundland. I spent a lifetime there one year (Argentia). do not archive Jay C. ----- Original Message ----- ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:12 PM PST US From: Lyle Persels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels Jay, I flew those fuel ratings for 25 years in the Navy and never knew what they meant. We learn so much late in life, mainly that the things we knew for certain when we were young were entirely wrong, and the that the things we know now represent only our current state of understanding, certain to change if we live long enough. Lyle Do not archive. On 08 23, 06, at 9:01 PM, Jay Carter wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Carter" > > > List, > > Way back when in mechanics school at Navy Memphis, students > were > told that fuel ratings above 100 were performance numbers. 115/145, > 100/130, > rich and lean. > As for Newfoundland. I spent a lifetime there one year > (Argentia). > > do not archive Jay C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > ________________________________ Message 72 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:03 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol and wing tanks --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" I spent a year in Placentia...You know where that is. We, the construction crew I was on, used to hit the club on base every Friday afternoon. D@#$ if I can remember the name of it. Maybe the Windjammer. I once had a conversation with a "Full Bird Colonel who said they used Argentia to re-introduce service men to civilization after particularly hard isolated postings like Greenland. Not the end of the world.... But you can smell it from there ;^} Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Jay Carter > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:32 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol and wing tanks Ethanol > and wing tanks > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Carter" > > > List, > > Way back when in mechanics school at Navy Memphis, > students were > told that fuel ratings above 100 were performance numbers. > 115/145, 100/130, > rich and lean. > As for Newfoundland. I spent a lifetime there one > year (Argentia). > > do not archive Jay C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 73 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:52 PM PST US From: "John Galt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Yeap, the other poster did not like my comment that it is a buyers market out there, let alone for experimentals. Big money? You mean in the $14K range? On 8/23/06, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Consider that some people, I'm one, who didn't figure out your original > comment in relation pricing a plane. Consider also the ire, make that blind > rage, the words "child sex trade", would invoke! > > Maybe it's time to close the book on this one. > > You can buy my model III-A 582"B" box w/ Ivo in flight three blade UL > Aerocet floats and straight skis wheels if you want 'em..... Bring > money..... Big MONEY! > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Galt > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:16 PM > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? > > Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I look for Kitfoxes to buy or is > even that frowned upon by the list crumogeons on here? Too bad you were not > reading the thread, you would have figured out what I was talking about. I > was objecting to the list zealots attacking a man (not me) for "pricing his > kitfox too low". If anyone needs counseling, it is them. Or perhaps a one > way ticket to Thailand. > > > On 8/23/06, Rexster wrote: > > > John Galt, > > Have you checked into some good counseling in your area? Nobody on this > list seems to have a clue how you have connected Kifox flyers with sex trade > and/or religious zealots. I would guess that this issue isn't the only > termoil you have going on in your head. Please stay off of this forum unless > you're here for the intended purpose. > > Rex in Michigan > > -- "Don Smythe" wrote: > *From:* John Galt > > I realize these religious zealots exist in any vocation, so it will not > cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole point is the market sets the price, > not some over zealous evangelist, no matter how well intentioned they may > be. > > RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS EVANGELIST... > I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. No telling what I'll hear > next. Fly alone young man. > > Don Smythe > > * > tronics.comics.com > * > > * > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com > * > > > * > > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 74 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:10 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Nelson: Do this experiment: send an e-mail to yourself. Most likely, it will read Mr NELSON GOGUEN as well. I don't think the "Mr" is added by the matronics list but by the way your verizon e-mail is configured. Please, provide feedback on the result of the experiment. Jose --- Mr NELSON GOGUEN wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON > GOGUEN" > > Thanks Jose, > > I was aware of the 1320 option and that is my plan. > I want to get my > private certificate for my own gratification and > ego, then the sport pilot > license before the next medical is due. I'm > probably the oldest student > pilot on the list. Indecently, I don't know why > the Mr. comes before my > name when I post a message. I sent an e-mail to > Matt Dralle to eliminate > that, but I guess it did not work. > > Fly safe, > Nelson > > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jose M. Toro" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:27 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder > Age?? (you can lie if you > want ;-) > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > > > > Nelson: > > > > If you certify that Vixen with a gross weight of > 1320 > > pounds, you could fly it as a sport pilot, and > won't > > need to have a medical. Most likely you know > this, > > however, I want to make sure you are aware of this > > option. > > > > Jose > > > > --- Mr NELSON GOGUEN wrote: > > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON > >> GOGUEN" > >> > >> Nelson Goguen---76. I passed my 3rd class > Medical > >> in April so the FAA has > >> given me 2 more years to finish my vixen, now > it's > >> up to God to go along > >> with that. I'm almost finished but I'm working > with > >> a nephew who presents > >> some good changes to the electrical system. Will > >> have two batteries and a > >> additional alternator-no vacuum pump. > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "darinh" > >> To: > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:30 PM > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder > Age?? > >> (you can lie if you > >> want ;-) > >> > >> > >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > >> > >> > > >> > Michel and all, > >> > > >> > I tallied up the responses so far and here are > the > >> results: > >> > > >> > Average age: 56.8 years > >> > Youngest: 30 years (thats me) > >> > Oldest: 85 years > >> > > >> > I gotta do something at work to keep me > >> entertained [Wink] > >> > > >> > Darin > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Read this topic online here: > >> > > >> > > >> > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56391#56391 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> browse > >> Subscriptions page, > >> FAQ, > >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > >> > >> Web Forums! > >> > >> > >> Admin. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 75 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:14 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Nelson, The Matronics mailer does not add anything to your email name. That is done with your email client. Or possibly your internet provider is adding it. Go into your email name configuration and see what it is set for. For instance I use Outlook, and I can click Tools > Email Accounts > Change Email Account and I can set my name to be anything I want, including Mr. Don Pearsall. Check that out, and if you still need help, let us know. Don Pearsall List Admin. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mr NELSON GOGUEN Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON GOGUEN" Thanks Jose, I was aware of the 1320 option and that is my plan. I want to get my private certificate for my own gratification and ego, then the sport pilot license before the next medical is due. I'm probably the oldest student pilot on the list. Indecently, I don't know why the Mr. comes before my name when I post a message. I sent an e-mail to Matt Dralle to eliminate that, but I guess it did not work. Fly safe, Nelson do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose M. Toro" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? (you can lie if you want ;-) > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > Nelson: > > If you certify that Vixen with a gross weight of 1320 > pounds, you could fly it as a sport pilot, and won't > need to have a medical. Most likely you know this, > however, I want to make sure you are aware of this > option. > > Jose > > --- Mr NELSON GOGUEN wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mr NELSON >> GOGUEN" >> >> Nelson Goguen---76. I passed my 3rd class Medical >> in April so the FAA has >> given me 2 more years to finish my vixen, now it's >> up to God to go along >> with that. I'm almost finished but I'm working with >> a nephew who presents >> some good changes to the electrical system. Will >> have two batteries and a >> additional alternator-no vacuum pump. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "darinh" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:30 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Pilot/Builder Age?? >> (you can lie if you >> want ;-) >> >> >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" >> >> > >> > Michel and all, >> > >> > I tallied up the responses so far and here are the >> results: >> > >> > Average age: 56.8 years >> > Youngest: 30 years (thats me) >> > Oldest: 85 years >> > >> > I gotta do something at work to keep me >> entertained [Wink] >> > >> > Darin >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56391#56391 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> browse >> Subscriptions page, >> FAQ, >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> >> Web Forums! >> >> >> Admin. >> >> >> >> >> > > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 76 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:21 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Not even warm! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Galt Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:35 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Yeap, the other poster did not like my comment that it is a buyers market out there, let alone for experimentals. Big money? You mean in the $14K range? On 8/23/06, Noel Loveys wrote: Consider that some people, I'm one, who didn't figure out your original comment in relation pricing a plane. Consider also the ire, make that blind rage, the words "child sex trade", would invoke! Maybe it's time to close the book on this one. You can buy my model III-A 582"B" box w/ Ivo in flight three blade UL Aerocet floats and straight skis wheels if you want 'em..... Bring money..... Big MONEY! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Galt Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand? Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I look for Kitfoxes to buy or is even that frowned upon by the list crumogeons on here? Too bad you were not reading the thread, you would have figured out what I was talking about. I was objecting to the list zealots attacking a man (not me) for "pricing his kitfox too low". If anyone needs counseling, it is them. Or perhaps a one way ticket to Thailand. On 8/23/06, Rexster > wrote: John Galt, Have you checked into some good counseling in your area? Nobody on this list seems to have a clue how you have connected Kifox flyers with sex trade and/or religious zealots. I would guess that this issue isn't the only termoil you have going on in your head. Please stay off of this forum unless you're here for the intended purpose. Rex in Michigan -- "Don Smythe" wrote: From: John Galt I realize these religious zealots exist in any vocation, so it will not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole point is the market sets the price, not some over zealous evangelist, no matter how well intentioned they may be. RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS EVANGELIST... I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. No telling what I'll hear next. Fly alone young man. Don Smythe tronics.com ics.com http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 77 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:24 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" I have ICOM A - 22 and A 24 great radios and both nav/coms and can commicate with ATC just fine higher you go the further you can transmit . ICOM has 3 year warranty on all radiso as well so if you got trouble - SEND IT IN !! Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "flier" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" > > I have an A6 and use it all the time in my Nieuport. > No problem talking to towers from miles away. > > ICOM makes great radios. I agree, send it to them > and let them fix it. > > > --- Original Message --- > From: "Noel Loveys" > To: > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers > >>That is not normal for any hand held radio. Send > the radio with the >>antenna >>back to Icom I'll bet they'll do good for you. The > problem could even >>be in >>the rubber duck. >> >> >> >>Noel >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Dan >>Billingsley >>Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:35 AM >>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Handheld Trancievers >> >> >>Jack, >>That is quite interesting...same thing going on > here. I even stood >>outside >>my car in direct line of sight to the tower and they > didn't hear >>transmission. After hearing this I wouldnt give two > cents for another >>one. >>Thanks for the reply. >>Dan B >> >>Jack L Bell wrote: >> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jack L Bell >> >> >>Oddly- I recently donated my sporty's JD-200 to the > local neighborhood >>around my hangar, >>and ended up purchasing an Icom A-24 on Ebay. >> >>I thought I'd been "had"- the system would receive, > but not transmit. >>Whenver I attempted to transmit, I'd get a "low > battery" indication.. >>and no-one could hear me. In, or out of the plane. >> >>I stopped by the local ham supply store- and > purchased the alkaline >>battery >>pack.. >>no difference. I, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 78 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:25 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Idaho BackCcountry Trip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Lowell, Great story. I have rec;d it twice now FYI Once in text and second time with a .doc attachment. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Idaho BackCcountry Trip > Well, this is the forth time I have tried to send this out. The first two > times, I got no rejection notice, but FYI, I suppose Matronics has a max > file size. Mine checked out at 11kb before sending. I did get a > rejection > notice the third time and apparently Matronics doesn't like Word Perfect > and > rejected it for that reason. I am now sending with only doc and txt > attachment versions. I was just trying to be helpful with the file > types. > > Lowell >