---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/25/06: 106 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:27 AM - Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous (Michael Gibbs) 2. 01:27 AM - Re: Insurance (Michael Gibbs) 3. 03:20 AM - (off topic) The experience of sailing. WAS: Is a taildragger dangerous? (Michel Verheughe) 4. 04:39 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Brian Smith) 5. 04:51 AM - Grass strips (Fox5flyer) 6. 05:03 AM - Re: Insurance (Lynn Matteson) 7. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Fox5flyer) 8. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Don Smythe) 9. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Brian Smith) 10. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous (Clifford Begnaud) 11. 06:02 AM - (off-topic) 9/11 pilots. WAS: Member Terminated (Michel Verheughe) 12. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Don Smythe) 13. 06:16 AM - Kitfox for Sale (Don Smythe) 14. 06:16 AM - Re: Grass strips (Dave) 15. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous (Dave) 16. 06:24 AM - Mechanic near 35A? (wingnut) 17. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Ted Palamarek) 18. 06:50 AM - Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (wingnut) 19. 06:54 AM - Re: Mechanic near 35A? (Brian Smith) 20. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous (Algate) 21. 06:56 AM - Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous (wingnut) 22. 06:59 AM - Re: Mechanic near 35A? (Don Smythe) 23. 07:00 AM - Re: Mechanic near 35A? (wingnut) 24. 07:00 AM - Re: Mechanic near 35A? (PWilson) 25. 07:02 AM - Re: Mechanic near 35A? (Jose M. Toro) 26. 07:08 AM - Re: (off-topic) 9/11 pilots. WAS: Member Terminated (Jose M. Toro) 27. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous (Noel Loveys) 28. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Jose M. Toro) 29. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Brian Smith) 30. 07:35 AM - Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (Algate) 31. 07:44 AM - Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (kitfoxmike) 32. 07:47 AM - Re: Member Terminated (kitfoxmike) 33. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Noel Loveys) 34. 07:59 AM - Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (wingnut) 35. 08:09 AM - (MA Stanard) 36. 08:11 AM - Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (Fox5flyer) 37. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Member Terminated (Jose M. Toro) 38. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Mechanic near 35A? (Jose M. Toro) 39. 08:37 AM - Re: FLOAT PLANE GROUP: CZECH FLOATS (John Marzulli) 40. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (Dave) 41. 08:43 AM - Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (wingnut) 42. 08:43 AM - (off-topic) Amsterdam-Schiphol intercept (Michel Verheughe) 43. 08:52 AM - Re: Mechanic near 35A? (wingnut) 44. 09:24 AM - Re: literary references (John Galt) 45. 09:26 AM - Re: Kitfox for sale (John Galt) 46. 09:48 AM - Poll (Michel Verheughe) 47. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (Algate) 48. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (Dave) 49. 10:25 AM - Re: Poll (Dave G.) 50. 10:26 AM - Re: (Mike Crutchlow) 51. 10:28 AM - Re: Poll (Dave G.) 52. 10:40 AM - Re: Grass strips (Lynn Matteson) 53. 10:52 AM - Re: (off topic) The experience of sailing. WAS: Is a taildragger (Richard Rabbers) 54. 10:52 AM - Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (wingnut) 55. 10:59 AM - Re: Mechanic near 35A? (Tony Clark) 56. 11:13 AM - Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Michel) 57. 11:16 AM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (kitfoxmike) 58. 11:19 AM - Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Michel) 59. 11:24 AM - Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Michel) 60. 11:26 AM - Re: Poll (Michel Verheughe) 61. 11:27 AM - Re: Poll (Richard Rabbers) 62. 11:27 AM - Re: Grass strips (kitfoxmike) 63. 11:49 AM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Scott Patterson) 64. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (Dave) 65. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: Grass strips (Dave) 66. 12:10 PM - Re: Grass strips (W Duke) 67. 12:14 PM - Re: (off topic) The experience of sailing (Michel Verheughe) 68. 12:15 PM - Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (wingnut) 69. 12:17 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Forfun3@aol.com) 70. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip (Dave) 71. 12:29 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Ben-PA) 72. 12:37 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Algate) 73. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Michel Verheughe) 74. 01:13 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Lyle Persels) 75. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Jose M. Toro) 76. 01:48 PM - Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Barry) 77. 02:17 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Nelson Goguen) 78. 03:26 PM - Re: Poll (QSS) 79. 03:47 PM - Re: (john perry) 80. 04:19 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Eric) 81. 04:28 PM - Re: (off topic) The experience of sailing (Richard Rabbers) 82. 04:52 PM - Re: (neflyer48) 83. 05:01 PM - Re: (John Anderson) 84. 05:13 PM - Re: (Dee Young) 85. 05:17 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (eccles) 86. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Roger McConnell) 87. 05:40 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Steve Wilson) 88. 05:44 PM - (Rexster) 89. 05:52 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Fred Shiple) 90. 06:24 PM - Type of Aircraft (Glenn Horne) 91. 07:06 PM - Type of Aircraft (Don Smythe) 92. 07:11 PM - Re: Grass strips (morid@northland.lib.mi.us) 93. 07:28 PM - Re: Type of Aircraft (Eric) 94. 07:29 PM - Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? (Clem Nichols) 95. 07:30 PM - Weight (David Estapa) 96. 07:33 PM - Fw: Type of Aircraft (Ron Liebmann) 97. 07:35 PM - Re: Grass strips (Kenneth and Alice Jones) 98. 07:39 PM - Re: (kirkhull) 99. 07:40 PM - Re: Type of Aircraft (kirkhull) 100. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Mechanic near 35A? (kirkhull) 101. 08:18 PM - Fw: malcolm Falcom ins web site (Malcolmbru@AOL.COM) 102. 09:07 PM - poll (Shane Sather) 103. 09:31 PM - Re: poll (Ted Palamarek) 104. 10:04 PM - Ignition system (QSS) 105. 10:04 PM - Kitfox in Thailand - Is it safe to come out now? (Colin Durey) 106. 11:39 PM - Re: Kitfox in Thailand - Is it safe to come out now? (QSS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:20 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Cliff sez: >...maingear on the Tri is farther aft, this has the effect of >raising the front end of the plane farther when the tail is all the >way down. You're right Cliff, I hadn't thought about that. >...who cares if the Tri gear plane can brake harder than the TW >plane, you could only do it on an improved runway and there isn't >much need to do so there. That all depends on what you are landing on. :-) There are lots of hard-packed dirt runways here in the southwest that are very short. The question was, though, why would a nose wheel 'fox take off and land shorter. I simply offered some comments on why that might be the case. Obviously it has everything to do with the situation and the pilot's skills. As for rough field operations, I would say the same is true: it depends entirely on the situation. I've seen taildraggers ground loop or flip over as a result of catching a main or two in a rut and I've seen nose wheel 'foxes land on some impossibly nasty terrain and vice versa. When you land on unimproved strips you are, in a sense, rolling the dice. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:20 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Insurance --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Scott sez: >I just signed up with Avemco. 800-638-8440. >$1,000,000 liability for $572/year. Model IV. I'd like to point out something about the insurance policies many of us have on our airplanes. If you read the fine print you may discover that, although you have a million dollars in liability coverage, it is limited to a fairly low value, typically $100,000, per seat. In other words, if you smash into someone's house and injure their child, the full million will be paid out. If, on the other hand, the child was in the plane with you, it will only pay out the one hundred thousand per seat. This came into play when the medical expenses for the passenger who was with me when I had my accident climbed above $100,000--it can happen quite easily these days! Luckily for me, my insurance company worked with my passenger to negotiate the medical expenses down below the covered amount, otherwise I would have been personally liable for the difference. When the policy came up for renewal on my Piper Turbo Arrow this time, we paid a little bit more for what is called "smooth coverage," i.e., a policy with no per-seat limits. In my opinion, if you fly with passengers much, it's worth the extra few dollars. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:28 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: (off topic) The experience of sailing. WAS: Is a taildragger dangerous? > From: Richard Rabbers [rira1950@yahoo.com] > The strength of the cold wind and resulting power of a sail is much greater > than a warm tropical breeze. Well ... yes and no, Richard. While colder, and therefore denser air, will put more pressure on your sails, it will also on your anemometer and therefore, for the same wind force reading, you will carry the same reefed sail, summer or winter. It is a common concept that the wind "hits harder" in the winter but it is attributed to the general discomfort of feeling a cold wind, which indeed feels "harder." In the temperate latitudes, the frequency of gale winds is largely higher in the winter, though. But that is due to the fact that the difference between polar and tropical air masses is greater in winter, because of the very short polar day, in winter; vs. the very long one in summer. This being said, I have never been carrying a wind measuring instrument in my sailboat because, for me, there is only three wind forces: Not enough, enough and, too much. That is very subjective and it should be. If I feel like reefing down the main, or seek shelter in a harbour, it is because it blows "too much." What is the actual wind speed in knots, doesn't matter. It may be that I feel tired, start a cold, have a passenger I worry about, need a good night sleep. All those are good enough reasons to say that the wind force is: too much. But you are right to say that e.g. maritime radio communication helps once becoming a pilot, Richard. There is very much similarity between ATC and VTS (vessel traffic surveillance) and SAR is, anyway, common for the maritime and aviation world, ... although I still have to see an aircraft calling pan-pan. Cheers, Michel do not archive
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:04 AM PST US From: "Brian Smith" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this guy to the pilots that lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not their "flying judgements" that caused these events to happen. Being an AA pilot, I lost friends that day and I walked the platform over the site that only family members were allowed to go to and there were way too many pictures of lost friends and family to make this kind of statement lightly. Brian Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" --> Don: Thanks for your decision!!! If this person is really a pilot, and his flying judgements are similar to his postings, then the sky is not anymore as safe as it used to be. Any relation with the 911 pilots??? Jose --- John Galt wrote: > Talk about a hypocrite! All the accusations you make against me, yet > it is your members who are full of hate. Shall I repost the other > members message who wished me to die because I owned a piper cherokee? > > Mr. Pearsall, you are truly a sick and closed minded individial who > supports the hate of your membership towards anyone who would question > the kitfox purple koolaid. > > And take your head out of your ass. It is people like yourself and > some of your list that condone the abuse of children during their sex > vacations in Thailand that sicken me. I will not keep your dirty > little secret that your list members hold. > > And not resubscribe to the list? The beauty of the internet is that > you can change your e-mail address. I will now make it my mission to > let all know what a sick bunch of preverts invest this kitfox list. > You truly should be ashamed of yourself. > > > > On 8/24/06, Don Pearsall > wrote: > > > > Mr.. Galt, > > You have been given many chances to be supportive > and to contribute > > positively to the Kitfox forum. We have over 400 > members who can manage to > > do that with no controversy. You have chosen not > to do so. Instead you > > answer every post with some complaint about a > member, and post bizarre > > messages such as about child sex in Thailand. > > > > The last straw is this post where you publicly > posted a member's private > > message to you. That was a breach of > confidentiality that we cannot > > tolerate. > > > > Sorry it did not work out for you, but you are > gone. Do not try to > > re-subscribe. > > > > Don Pearsall > > List Administrator > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto: > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf > Of *John Galt > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:25 PM > > *To:* Rexster > > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in Thailand? > > > > > > Mesier Rexster: > > > > Well, judging by the amount of personal attacks I > have recieved, including > > your e-mail below, it doesn't seem like a friendly > place... certainly not if > > you disagree with anyone or question the > collective. > > > > Still, I bet you do feel better after getting that > off your chest, so we > > might as well share that with everyone. Ahhhhh.... > much better, aye? > > > > > > On 8/24/06, Rexster wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > > > You're an interesting fellow. I'm curious > about what your history is. > > > Try to understand that I'm not getting on your > case, but trying to > > > understand you. It seems that all you want to do > on the forum is argue and > > > fight with people on what for the rest of us, is > a friendly chat place. I'm > > > sure that this lack of people skills transfers > into the rest of your life > > > and you probably have very few friends, if any. > That's sad for someone to go > > > through life like that. I'm surprised from the > many people on the forum that > > > are appalled by your comments that you continue > to be nasty with almost all > > > of your emails to the forum. > > > > > > Out of curiosity, there's a fellow from my > high school graduating > > > class who has completely alienated himself from > the rest of the class with a > > > similar attitude. Everybody shakes their heads > in amazement at how nasty he > > > is and why he chooses that lifestyle. It's sad > to see him so miserable. > > > There's no way to ask him as he's even less > approachable than you are (I > > > think). We feel badly for him and the lifestyle > he chooses as I actually > > > liked him during high school. We're all trying > to figure out what makes him > > > like that. The rest of us have had so much fun > getting together and enjoying > > > emails with each other over the years. Why would > he choose to constantly be > > > digging up things to argue about? You seem a bit > more talkative so maybe you > > > can give me some insight. Life is too short to > be like that. > > > > > > One more question. I've noticed that both of > you guys like to use long > > > words that don't seem to come up in most > people's conversations. I don't > > > save any of the forum emails if they're not > pertaining to Kitfoxes so I > > > don't have examples to give you. The only one I > remember (zealots)isn't that > > > uncommon but you do tend to use pretty big and > uncommon terms. The fellow > > > from my high school class does the same thing. > Any ideas here? > > > > > > I doubt that at this stage in your life that > we'd be able to help you > > > be a happier person, but my guess would be that > if you talked to people on > > > the forum with in a friendlier manner that you'd > be more welcome. Keep in > > > mind that I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I > would just like to > > > understand what makes you seem to enjoy haggling > with people. Life can be so > > > much more fun if you make friends instead. > > > > > > Please note that I'm sending this to you > personally and not the entire > > > Kitfox forum. Let's keep the personal stuff off > of there. Good luck to you > > > and I hope things get better for you. > > > > > > Rex in Michigan > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > > Guess you'll be quick to sell it with that > attitude. > > > > > > On 8/24/06, Noel Loveys > wrote: > > > > > > > > Not even warm! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto: > > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On > Behalf Of *John Galt > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:35 AM > > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in > Thailand? > > > > > > > > Yeap, the other poster did not like my > comment that it is a buyers > > > > market out there, let alone for experimentals. > Big money? You mean in the > > > > $14K range? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, Noel Loveys < noelloveys@yahoo.ca > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Consider that some people, I'm one, who > didn't figure out your > > > > > original comment in relation pricing a > plane. Consider also the ire, make > > > > > that blind rage, the words "child sex > trade", would invoke! > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it's time to close the book on this > one. > > > > > > > > > > You can buy my model III-A 582"B" box w/ Ivo > in flight three blade > > > > > UL Aerocet floats and straight skis wheels > if you want 'em..... Bring > > > > > money..... Big MONEY! > > > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > *From:* > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On > Behalf Of *John Galt > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:16 PM > > > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in > Thailand? > > > > > > > > > > Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I > look for Kitfoxes to buy or > > > > > is even that frowned upon by the list > crumogeons on here? Too bad you were > > > > > not reading the thread, you would have > figured out what I was talking > > > > > about. I was objecting to the list zealots > attacking a man (not me) for > > > > > "pricing his kitfox too low". If anyone > needs counseling, it is them. Or > > > > > perhaps a one way ticket to Thailand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, Rexster > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > John Galt, > > > > > > > > > > Have you checked into some good counseling > in your area? Nobody on > > > > > this list seems to have a clue how you have > connected Kifox flyers with sex > > > > > trade and/or religious zealots. I would > guess that this issue isn't the only > > > > > termoil you have going on in your head. > Please stay off of this forum unless > > > > > you're here for the intended purpose. > > > > > > > > > > Rex in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > -- "Don Smythe" wrote: > > > > > *From:* John Galt > > > > > > > > > > I realize these religious zealots exist in > any vocation, so it will > > > > > not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole > point is the market sets the > > > > > price, not some over zealous evangelist, no > matter how well intentioned they > > > > > may be. > > > > > > > > > > RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS > EVANGELIST... > > > > > I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. > No telling what I'll > > > > > hear next. Fly alone young man. > > > > > > > > > > Don Smythe > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > tronics.comics.com > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt p://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > * > > > > > > > > * > > > > * > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:47 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Grass strips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than paved strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people who have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up here in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds me of the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control. Deke S5 TD > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" > > I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are done. > Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a grass > strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure that > everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a former > Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world > > > --Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger McConnell > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger > dangerous > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" > > Mike, > Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete. > Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or made the > push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very much, just > not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I haven't > gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety > conscious. > > Roger Mac > S7/912s (trigear) > DO NOT ARCHIVE > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:04 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger > dangerous > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" > > I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us actually land in a rough > off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. Off field, or the boonees > landing is very risky and I concider most to be extrem flying. Am I the > only one that takes safety seriously and determines yes or no to a landing > site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the engine quites. I say, > that's not a normal. > > My definition of extrem is daredevil. > > -------- > kitfoxmike > kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster > http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike > rv7 wingkit > reserved 287RV > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Insurance From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson The way I've heard it is that once you are quoted a price for insurance, that quote is fed out to all the insurance companies, and they all will then "honor" that quote. In other words, you are locked into that quote figure with all the insurers. I've heard this from several sources...is it true? Lynn On Thursday, August 24, 2006, at 03:53 PM, Rexster wrote: > With Falcon, I'm paying $969 for liability plus $30,000value of full > coverage. I had checked with Avemco and they were much higher. Why not > call both and compare for what you'd like. > > Rex in Michigan > > --ScottPattersonwrote: > -->Kitfox- > Listmessagepostedby:ScottPatterson > > IjustsignedupwithAvemco.800-638-8440. > > $1,000,000liabilityfor$572========================================== > ======-TheKitfox- > ListEmailForuistutilitiessuchastheSubscriptionspa============== > ==================================sp;-NEWMATRONICSWEB========= > =======================================-NEWMATRONICS========= > =======================================sp;-ListContributionWebS > nbsp;- > Matt&n================================================= > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:16 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" I thought he was talking about the terrorist pilots. Anyway, Mr. Galt is gone now so maybe it's time to put this topic to bed and get on with something more appropriate to what this list is all about. Thanks, Deke do not archive > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" > > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this guy to the pilots that > lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not their "flying judgements" > that caused these events to happen. Being an AA pilot, I lost friends that > day and I walked the platform over the site that only family members were > allowed to go to and there were way too many pictures of lost friends and > family to make this kind of statement lightly. > > Brian > > Do Not Archive > > Thanks for your decision!!! If this person is really a pilot, and his > flying judgements are similar to his postings, then the sky is not anymore > as safe as it used to be. Any relation with the 911 pilots??? > > Jose ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:47 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Brian, I read that without any doubt in my mind that the pilot reference was to the "Terrorist" who piloted the planes into the WTC. Do Not Archive Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Smith" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:38 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" > > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this guy to the pilots that > lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not their "flying > judgements" > that caused these events to happen. Being an AA pilot, I lost friends > that > day and I walked the platform over the site that only family members were > allowed to go to and there were way too many pictures of lost friends and > family to make this kind of statement lightly. > > Brian > > Do Not Archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:44 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > --> > > Don: > > Thanks for your decision!!! If this person is really a pilot, and his > flying judgements are similar to his postings, then the sky is not anymore > as safe as it used to be. Any relation with the 911 pilots??? > > Jose > > --- John Galt wrote: > >> Talk about a hypocrite! All the accusations you make against me, yet >> it is your members who are full of hate. Shall I repost the other >> members message who wished me to die because I owned a piper cherokee? >> >> Mr. Pearsall, you are truly a sick and closed minded individial who >> supports the hate of your membership towards anyone who would question >> the kitfox purple koolaid. >> >> And take your head out of your ass. It is people like yourself and >> some of your list that condone the abuse of children during their sex >> vacations in Thailand that sicken me. I will not keep your dirty >> little secret that your list members hold. >> >> And not resubscribe to the list? The beauty of the internet is that >> you can change your e-mail address. I will now make it my mission to >> let all know what a sick bunch of preverts invest this kitfox list. >> You truly should be ashamed of yourself. >> >> >> >> On 8/24/06, Don Pearsall >> wrote: >> > >> > Mr.. Galt, >> > You have been given many chances to be supportive >> and to contribute >> > positively to the Kitfox forum. We have over 400 >> members who can manage to >> > do that with no controversy. You have chosen not >> to do so. Instead you >> > answer every post with some complaint about a >> member, and post bizarre >> > messages such as about child sex in Thailand. >> > >> > The last straw is this post where you publicly >> posted a member's private >> > message to you. That was a breach of >> confidentiality that we cannot >> > tolerate. >> > >> > Sorry it did not work out for you, but you are >> gone. Do not try to >> > re-subscribe. >> > >> > Don Pearsall >> > List Administrator >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto: >> > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf >> Of *John Galt >> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:25 PM >> > *To:* Rexster >> > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in Thailand? >> > >> > >> > Mesier Rexster: >> > >> > Well, judging by the amount of personal attacks I >> have recieved, including >> > your e-mail below, it doesn't seem like a friendly >> place... certainly not if >> > you disagree with anyone or question the >> collective. >> > >> > Still, I bet you do feel better after getting that >> off your chest, so we >> > might as well share that with everyone. Ahhhhh.... >> much better, aye? >> > >> > >> > On 8/24/06, Rexster wrote: >> > > >> > > John, >> > > >> > > You're an interesting fellow. I'm curious >> about what your history is. >> > > Try to understand that I'm not getting on your >> case, but trying to >> > > understand you. It seems that all you want to do >> on the forum is argue and >> > > fight with people on what for the rest of us, is >> a friendly chat place. I'm >> > > sure that this lack of people skills transfers >> into the rest of your life >> > > and you probably have very few friends, if any. >> That's sad for someone to go >> > > through life like that. I'm surprised from the >> many people on the forum that >> > > are appalled by your comments that you continue >> to be nasty with almost all >> > > of your emails to the forum. >> > > >> > > Out of curiosity, there's a fellow from my >> high school graduating >> > > class who has completely alienated himself from >> the rest of the class with a >> > > similar attitude. Everybody shakes their heads >> in amazement at how nasty he >> > > is and why he chooses that lifestyle. It's sad >> to see him so miserable. >> > > There's no way to ask him as he's even less >> approachable than you are (I >> > > think). We feel badly for him and the lifestyle >> he chooses as I actually >> > > liked him during high school. We're all trying >> to figure out what makes him >> > > like that. The rest of us have had so much fun >> getting together and enjoying >> > > emails with each other over the years. Why would >> he choose to constantly be >> > > digging up things to argue about? You seem a bit >> more talkative so maybe you >> > > can give me some insight. Life is too short to >> be like that. >> > > >> > > One more question. I've noticed that both of >> you guys like to use long >> > > words that don't seem to come up in most >> people's conversations. I don't >> > > save any of the forum emails if they're not >> pertaining to Kitfoxes so I >> > > don't have examples to give you. The only one I >> remember (zealots)isn't that >> > > uncommon but you do tend to use pretty big and >> uncommon terms. The fellow >> > > from my high school class does the same thing. >> Any ideas here? >> > > >> > > I doubt that at this stage in your life that >> we'd be able to help you >> > > be a happier person, but my guess would be that >> if you talked to people on >> > > the forum with in a friendlier manner that you'd >> be more welcome. Keep in >> > > mind that I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I >> would just like to >> > > understand what makes you seem to enjoy haggling >> with people. Life can be so >> > > much more fun if you make friends instead. >> > > >> > > Please note that I'm sending this to you >> personally and not the entire >> > > Kitfox forum. Let's keep the personal stuff off >> of there. Good luck to you >> > > and I hope things get better for you. >> > > >> > > Rex in Michigan >> > > >> > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >> > > Guess you'll be quick to sell it with that >> attitude. >> > > >> > > On 8/24/06, Noel Loveys >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Not even warm! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Noel >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto: >> > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On >> Behalf Of *John Galt >> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:35 AM >> > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in >> Thailand? >> > > > >> > > > Yeap, the other poster did not like my >> comment that it is a buyers >> > > > market out there, let alone for experimentals. >> Big money? You mean in the >> > > > $14K range? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On 8/23/06, Noel Loveys < noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Consider that some people, I'm one, who >> didn't figure out your >> > > > > original comment in relation pricing a >> plane. Consider also the ire, make >> > > > > that blind rage, the words "child sex >> trade", would invoke! >> > > > > >> > > > > Maybe it's time to close the book on this >> one. >> > > > > >> > > > > You can buy my model III-A 582"B" box w/ Ivo >> in flight three blade >> > > > > UL Aerocet floats and straight skis wheels >> if you want 'em..... Bring >> > > > > money..... Big MONEY! >> > > > > >> > > > > Noel >> > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > *From:* >> owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> > > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On >> Behalf Of *John Galt >> > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:16 PM >> > > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in >> Thailand? >> > > > > >> > > > > Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I >> look for Kitfoxes to buy or >> > > > > is even that frowned upon by the list >> crumogeons on here? Too bad you were >> > > > > not reading the thread, you would have >> figured out what I was talking >> > > > > about. I was objecting to the list zealots >> attacking a man (not me) for >> > > > > "pricing his kitfox too low". If anyone >> needs counseling, it is them. Or >> > > > > perhaps a one way ticket to Thailand. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 8/23/06, Rexster >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > John Galt, >> > > > > >> > > > > Have you checked into some good counseling >> in your area? Nobody on >> > > > > this list seems to have a clue how you have >> connected Kifox flyers with sex >> > > > > trade and/or religious zealots. I would >> guess that this issue isn't the only >> > > > > termoil you have going on in your head. >> Please stay off of this forum unless >> > > > > you're here for the intended purpose. >> > > > > >> > > > > Rex in Michigan >> > > > > >> > > > > -- "Don Smythe" wrote: >> > > > > *From:* John Galt >> > > > > >> > > > > I realize these religious zealots exist in >> any vocation, so it will >> > > > > not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole >> point is the market sets the >> > > > > price, not some over zealous evangelist, no >> matter how well intentioned they >> > > > > may be. >> > > > > >> > > > > RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS >> EVANGELIST... >> > > > > I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. >> No telling what I'll >> > > > > hear next. Fly alone young man. >> > > > > >> > > > > Don Smythe >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > > tronics.comics.com >> > > > > * >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > >> > > * >> > > >> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt > p://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > * >> > > >> > > >> > * >> > >> > * >> > >> > >> > > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:36 AM PST US From: "Brian Smith" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" Ops. Then my mistake and my appologies. B. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Brian, I read that without any doubt in my mind that the pilot reference was to the "Terrorist" who piloted the planes into the WTC. Do Not Archive Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Smith" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:38 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" > > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this guy to the pilots that > lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not their "flying > judgements" > that caused these events to happen. Being an AA pilot, I lost friends > that > day and I walked the platform over the site that only family members were > allowed to go to and there were way too many pictures of lost friends and > family to make this kind of statement lightly. > > Brian > > Do Not Archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:44 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > --> > > Don: > > Thanks for your decision!!! If this person is really a pilot, and his > flying judgements are similar to his postings, then the sky is not anymore > as safe as it used to be. Any relation with the 911 pilots??? > > Jose > > --- John Galt wrote: > >> Talk about a hypocrite! All the accusations you make against me, yet >> it is your members who are full of hate. Shall I repost the other >> members message who wished me to die because I owned a piper cherokee? >> >> Mr. Pearsall, you are truly a sick and closed minded individial who >> supports the hate of your membership towards anyone who would question >> the kitfox purple koolaid. >> >> And take your head out of your ass. It is people like yourself and >> some of your list that condone the abuse of children during their sex >> vacations in Thailand that sicken me. I will not keep your dirty >> little secret that your list members hold. >> >> And not resubscribe to the list? The beauty of the internet is that >> you can change your e-mail address. I will now make it my mission to >> let all know what a sick bunch of preverts invest this kitfox list. >> You truly should be ashamed of yourself. >> >> >> >> On 8/24/06, Don Pearsall >> wrote: >> > >> > Mr.. Galt, >> > You have been given many chances to be supportive >> and to contribute >> > positively to the Kitfox forum. We have over 400 >> members who can manage to >> > do that with no controversy. You have chosen not >> to do so. Instead you >> > answer every post with some complaint about a >> member, and post bizarre >> > messages such as about child sex in Thailand. >> > >> > The last straw is this post where you publicly >> posted a member's private >> > message to you. That was a breach of >> confidentiality that we cannot >> > tolerate. >> > >> > Sorry it did not work out for you, but you are >> gone. Do not try to >> > re-subscribe. >> > >> > Don Pearsall >> > List Administrator >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto: >> > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf >> Of *John Galt >> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:25 PM >> > *To:* Rexster >> > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in Thailand? >> > >> > >> > Mesier Rexster: >> > >> > Well, judging by the amount of personal attacks I >> have recieved, including >> > your e-mail below, it doesn't seem like a friendly >> place... certainly not if >> > you disagree with anyone or question the >> collective. >> > >> > Still, I bet you do feel better after getting that >> off your chest, so we >> > might as well share that with everyone. Ahhhhh.... >> much better, aye? >> > >> > >> > On 8/24/06, Rexster wrote: >> > > >> > > John, >> > > >> > > You're an interesting fellow. I'm curious >> about what your history is. >> > > Try to understand that I'm not getting on your >> case, but trying to >> > > understand you. It seems that all you want to do >> on the forum is argue and >> > > fight with people on what for the rest of us, is >> a friendly chat place. I'm >> > > sure that this lack of people skills transfers >> into the rest of your life >> > > and you probably have very few friends, if any. >> That's sad for someone to go >> > > through life like that. I'm surprised from the >> many people on the forum that >> > > are appalled by your comments that you continue >> to be nasty with almost all >> > > of your emails to the forum. >> > > >> > > Out of curiosity, there's a fellow from my >> high school graduating >> > > class who has completely alienated himself from >> the rest of the class with a >> > > similar attitude. Everybody shakes their heads >> in amazement at how nasty he >> > > is and why he chooses that lifestyle. It's sad >> to see him so miserable. >> > > There's no way to ask him as he's even less >> approachable than you are (I >> > > think). We feel badly for him and the lifestyle >> he chooses as I actually >> > > liked him during high school. We're all trying >> to figure out what makes him >> > > like that. The rest of us have had so much fun >> getting together and enjoying >> > > emails with each other over the years. Why would >> he choose to constantly be >> > > digging up things to argue about? You seem a bit >> more talkative so maybe you >> > > can give me some insight. Life is too short to >> be like that. >> > > >> > > One more question. I've noticed that both of >> you guys like to use long >> > > words that don't seem to come up in most >> people's conversations. I don't >> > > save any of the forum emails if they're not >> pertaining to Kitfoxes so I >> > > don't have examples to give you. The only one I >> remember (zealots)isn't that >> > > uncommon but you do tend to use pretty big and >> uncommon terms. The fellow >> > > from my high school class does the same thing. >> Any ideas here? >> > > >> > > I doubt that at this stage in your life that >> we'd be able to help you >> > > be a happier person, but my guess would be that >> if you talked to people on >> > > the forum with in a friendlier manner that you'd >> be more welcome. Keep in >> > > mind that I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I >> would just like to >> > > understand what makes you seem to enjoy haggling >> with people. Life can be so >> > > much more fun if you make friends instead. >> > > >> > > Please note that I'm sending this to you >> personally and not the entire >> > > Kitfox forum. Let's keep the personal stuff off >> of there. Good luck to you >> > > and I hope things get better for you. >> > > >> > > Rex in Michigan >> > > >> > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- >> > > Guess you'll be quick to sell it with that >> attitude. >> > > >> > > On 8/24/06, Noel Loveys >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Not even warm! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Noel >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto: >> > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On >> Behalf Of *John Galt >> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:35 AM >> > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in >> Thailand? >> > > > >> > > > Yeap, the other poster did not like my >> comment that it is a buyers >> > > > market out there, let alone for experimentals. >> Big money? You mean in the >> > > > $14K range? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On 8/23/06, Noel Loveys < noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Consider that some people, I'm one, who >> didn't figure out your >> > > > > original comment in relation pricing a >> plane. Consider also the ire, make >> > > > > that blind rage, the words "child sex >> trade", would invoke! >> > > > > >> > > > > Maybe it's time to close the book on this >> one. >> > > > > >> > > > > You can buy my model III-A 582"B" box w/ Ivo >> in flight three blade >> > > > > UL Aerocet floats and straight skis wheels >> if you want 'em..... Bring >> > > > > money..... Big MONEY! >> > > > > >> > > > > Noel >> > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > *From:* >> owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> > > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On >> Behalf Of *John Galt >> > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:16 PM >> > > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in >> Thailand? >> > > > > >> > > > > Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I >> look for Kitfoxes to buy or >> > > > > is even that frowned upon by the list >> crumogeons on here? Too bad you were >> > > > > not reading the thread, you would have >> figured out what I was talking >> > > > > about. I was objecting to the list zealots >> attacking a man (not me) for >> > > > > "pricing his kitfox too low". If anyone >> needs counseling, it is them. Or >> > > > > perhaps a one way ticket to Thailand. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 8/23/06, Rexster >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > John Galt, >> > > > > >> > > > > Have you checked into some good counseling >> in your area? Nobody on >> > > > > this list seems to have a clue how you have >> connected Kifox flyers with sex >> > > > > trade and/or religious zealots. I would >> guess that this issue isn't the only >> > > > > termoil you have going on in your head. >> Please stay off of this forum unless >> > > > > you're here for the intended purpose. >> > > > > >> > > > > Rex in Michigan >> > > > > >> > > > > -- "Don Smythe" wrote: >> > > > > *From:* John Galt >> > > > > >> > > > > I realize these religious zealots exist in >> any vocation, so it will >> > > > > not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole >> point is the market sets the >> > > > > price, not some over zealous evangelist, no >> matter how well intentioned they >> > > > > may be. >> > > > > >> > > > > RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS >> EVANGELIST... >> > > > > I don't think I'll respond anymore to this. >> No telling what I'll >> > > > > hear next. Fly alone young man. >> > > > > >> > > > > Don Smythe >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > > tronics.comics.com >> > > > > * >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > > >> > > > > * >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > * >> > > > >> > > > >> > > * >> > > >> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt > p://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > * >> > > >> > > >> > * >> > >> > * >> > >> > >> > > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:23 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Mike, You are right about the short dirt strips... my apologies. In fact I have landed on some of those. The Trigear plane has the potential to land shorter for the same reason it can take off shorter, wing angle. However, on landing in a TW plane you can get the angle needed to fully stall it, but you will be touching the tailwheel down first. Not something I like doing on rough landing spots. I have no doubt that in the hands of skilled pilot a Tri gear plane can be landed on some really rough spots, I just think that, in general, a TW plane is a better platform for that kind of flying. Rolling the dice?? Well, without the skills and/or without the proper precautions, sure. But lots of practice in a tamer environment first with lots of caution and good judgement, off aiport op's can reach an acceptable level of risk. (note I didn't say safetly, there's no such thing, IMHO) I'm sure you "drag" your landing spots first, from several directions. Then test the surface to see how feels. This can go a long way toward minimizing the risk. Best Regards, Cliff Cliff sez: >...maingear on the Tri is farther aft, this has the effect of >raising the front end of the plane farther when the tail is all the >way down. You're right Cliff, I hadn't thought about that. >...who cares if the Tri gear plane can brake harder than the TW >plane, you could only do it on an improved runway and there isn't >much need to do so there. That all depends on what you are landing on. :-) There are lots of hard-packed dirt runways here in the southwest that are very short. The question was, though, why would a nose wheel 'fox take off and land shorter. I simply offered some comments on why that might be the case. Obviously it has everything to do with the situation and the pilot's skills. As for rough field operations, I would say the same is true: it depends entirely on the situation. I've seen taildraggers ground loop or flip over as a result of catching a main or two in a rut and I've seen nose wheel 'foxes land on some impossibly nasty terrain and vice versa. When you land on unimproved strips you are, in a sense, rolling the dice. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:29 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: (off-topic) 9/11 pilots. WAS: Member Terminated > From: Brian Smith [bsmith3163@aol.com] > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this guy to the pilots that > lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. Brian, I know too well Jose to know that it is a regretable misunderstanding, he was comparing John Galt, not to the actual pilots of the four planes, but to the terrorists who took over (short-period pilots). The entire world has nothing but compassion and respect for all the victims of 9/11, pilots, fire-fighters, civilians, and their families. And the few who don't ... are not worth breathing our air on this planet. Cheers, Michel do not archive
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:55 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Now, that's what being a good list member is all about. Read something wrong, make a boo boo and then come back with an apology. Good job Brian. Don Smythe Do Not Archive End of Subject ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Smith" > Ops. Then my mistake and my appologies. B. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:05 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox for Sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Now that all the nasty stuff has left us, let's get back to some serious Kitfox talk. Does anybody want to buy my Classic IV? I might could have sold it to a previous list member but I have my limits. I've had 9 request for information and gave 1 test ride so far. Going once, Going twice, ------------ Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:47 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grass strips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Deke, You are absoutly correct !! Grass is alot easier that paved runways. It should be part of every flight test. When i did my priv license almost 26 years ago we trained from pavement but also nearly every flight did soft field and short field operations. Luckily we do have a few "licensed " grass strips nearby so I think that made it legal with insurance regs. I think it good training to be able to landing narrow strips as well like 40 feet or less. One never knows when a 2 lane road might be your only option for a forced landing. Practice will not make perfect but it helps you make good decisions at critical moments. Is there really folks that are not flying a Kitfox into grass for this reason ? I can see if we wer all flying 421's or 310s or a Lear 35 into grass but a fox not in a grass strip ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 7:51 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Grass strips > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more > forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than paved > strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even > better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people who > have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up here > in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds me > of > the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control. > Deke > S5 TD > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" >> >> I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are > done. >> Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a grass >> strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure > that >> everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a former >> Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world >> >> >> --Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger > McConnell >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger >> dangerous >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" >> >> Mike, >> Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete. >> Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or made > the >> push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very much, > just >> not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I > haven't >> gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety >> conscious. >> >> Roger Mac >> S7/912s (trigear) >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:04 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger >> dangerous >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" >> >> I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us actually land in a > rough >> off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. Off field, or the > boonees >> landing is very risky and I concider most to be extrem flying. Am I the >> only one that takes safety seriously and determines yes or no to a >> landing >> site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the engine quites. I say, >> that's not a normal. >> >> My definition of extrem is daredevil. >> >> -------- >> kitfoxmike >> kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster >> http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike >> rv7 wingkit >> reserved 287RV >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:40 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Hi Noel, For legal reasons and ongoing litigation I cannot disclose too much. I will say it was a single engine landplane flying 1000 agl at cruise when what seemed like a shotgoun went off in my face. Windshield cracked and part departed as well as parts of the cowl and spinner as well as one blade. I was over a grass strip at the time but opted for a field that had a better approach and longer. Landing was un-eventful and plane was dismantled and loaded on trailer. Luckily this was over a rural area and not over a city. I had just come from a control zone and enroute to another. ELT was turned off luckily or it would surely of gone off and then a report would have to been filed. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:22 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > > With a prop lost you have to be one of the luckiest guys around. I'm > curious as to the type of plane and prop that was.... I'm not looking for > brand names just general info. > > Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:55 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a >> taildragger dangerous >> >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" >> >> I fly off grass 98% on wheels when no snow >> I fly off 98 % skis when there is no snow and sometimes on >> just grass with >> skis.( straight skis only ) >> I fly off water and asphault and grass strips when on amphibs >> I have practiced forced approaches since I started flying >> over 25 years ago >> and have had 4 forced landings. >> - one engine failure - homebuilt >> -one carb came loose and engine failed homebuilt >> -one lost power on TO in 172 and deadstick back to airport >> - one prop failure ( blade departed) and landed in field >> with engine just >> barely attached. >> >> all the above -- no damage to landing gear or anything other >> that the last >> prop failure where the windshield blew out and firewall got >> partially torn >> away from engine shaking around. >> >> moral of story is practice certainly helps in realtime. >> >> same story for spins -- if you cannot demostrate and be >> proficient then just >> a course in "awareness " does not necessarily cut it. How >> many get killed >> from stall/spin accidents yearly but only instructors need to >> train for them >> ? >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "kitfoxmike" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:03 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger >> dangerous >> >> >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" >> >> > >> > I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us >> actually land in a >> > rough off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. >> Off field, or the >> > boonees landing is very risky and I concider most to be >> extrem flying. Am >> > I the only one that takes safety seriously and determines >> yes or no to a >> > landing site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the >> engine quites. I >> > say, that's not a normal. >> > >> > My definition of extrem is daredevil. >> > >> > -------- >> > kitfoxmike >> > kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster >> > http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike >> > rv7 wingkit >> > reserved 287RV >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:11 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Mechanic near 35A? From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" The fuel odor in my kitfox is getting worse. I suspect that it's the fuel lines so I want to have them replaced with automotive lines. Only problem is that I'm not the builder so, as I understand it, I'm not allowed to make this kind of modification myself... Any thoughts? Can someone point me to a good shop in the near 34A (no FBO at my airport). I need something close because my pitch trim decided to stop working yesterday (it's stuck in the landing configuration) so I'm giong to have to trailer it. I'm so depressed...:-( Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57217#57217 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:09 AM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" Brian I read that to mean the "So called pilots" that took over the plane and then created the havoc and not the airline pilots. Ted Palamarek DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Smith Sent: August 25, 2006 5:38 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this guy to the pilots that lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not their "flying judgements" that caused these events to happen. Being an AA pilot, I lost friends that day and I walked the platform over the site that only family members were allowed to go to and there were way too many pictures of lost friends and family to make this kind of statement lightly. Brian ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:00 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" I own a bit of rough field that I'd like to turn into a nice grass strip. Anyone out there have any experience doing this kind of thing? Ive talked to some of the locals around here that do some grading but its a little out of their range of experience. Someone suggested that I hire a motor grader but then another guy pointed out that the first thing they do with a grader is push off all the topsoil. When theyre done grading, youre left with huge piles of lumpy topsoil to deal with that wont spread back onto the strip without making it lumpy again. This route seems like overkill to me. The field is rough but its mostly level so I was hoping that I could get it smooth without bringing in heavy equipment. I thought about tilling about six inches and then smoothing it with my tractor but Im sold that this would make the field to soft to use for years Any thoughts? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57223#57223 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:50 AM PST US From: "Brian Smith" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mechanic near 35A? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" I found this on the EAA website: "Condition Inspection What is a Condition Inspection? A condition inspection is the equivalent of an "annual" for a type certificated aircraft. Although FAR Part 43 specifically states that it does not apply to experimental airworthiness certificates, the operating limitations on your homebuilt will include the following (or something similar): No person shall operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12 calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, or other FAA-approved programs, and found to be in a condition for safe operation. This inspection will be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records. Condition inspections shall be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records showing the following or a similarly worded statement: "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43 and found to be in a condition for safe operation." The entry will include the aircraft total time in service, and the name, signature, certificate number, and type of certificate held by the person performing the inspection. See the condition inspection checklist for use in conducting annual condition inspections. Who can perform a Condition Inspection? The inspection can be performed by any licensed A&P mechanic, an FAA Approved Repair Station, or by the builder of the airplane provided the builder obtains a "Repairman's Certificate" from the FAA. Note that unlike an annual for a type certificated aircraft, the A&P mechanic does NOT have to have his/her "Inspection Authorization". Who can maintain a Homebuilt? FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to amateur-built airplanes. Therefore, any maintenance on an experimental airplane can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of credentials. (This does not apply to the condition inspection previously discussed). Let common sense be your guide as to what maintenance you conduct yourself." The last paragraph holds what I believe to be the answer to your question. I am new to this type of flying (experimental) so confirm this before you act on it but I believe the owner may do all maintenance on his experimental aircraft. If he is listed on the "Repairmans Certificate" then he can even do the Annual Condition Inspection. If he is not the original builder and he is not listed on the Repairmans Certificate, then he can not do the Annual Condition Inspection. He then can have any A&P (one without a Inspection Authorization is OK) do the annual. Anyone else know this to be wrong or misleading? Brian Smith -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Mechanic near 35A? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" The fuel odor in my kitfox is getting worse. I suspect that it's the fuel lines so I want to have them replaced with automotive lines. Only problem is that I'm not the builder so, as I understand it, I'm not allowed to make this kind of modification myself... Any thoughts? Can someone point me to a good shop in the near 34A (no FBO at my airport). I need something close because my pitch trim decided to stop working yesterday (it's stuck in the landing configuration) so I'm giong to have to trailer it. I'm so depressed...:-( Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57217#57217 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:41 AM PST US From: "Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" Living in Northern Ontario means you have access to many off field landing sites. As part of my basic training (Albeit from a certified Bush Pilot instructor) some of the first things I learned were how to evaluate the length and acceptability of any proposed landing site. As we often have to land on relatively short lakes with high trees etc on the approach I was taught to arrive high and side slip to landing so that you have plenty of reserve energy in case of engine problems or for a go around if required. Probably 80% of my landings are on short grass strips and 10% on various fields and lakes. In winter I do a lot of ice fishing on remote lakes (skis) and many of the better fishing sites offer higher levels of difficulty but as long as you have practiced short field landings and departures I really don't believe the risk is higher - it's just a matter of practice and confidence. That being said if I have any doubts about the suitability of the site ie) obstacles or soft patches I give it a wide berth. I certainly don't take risks I just use the attribute of the Kitfox in a way I think they were designed. I find myself concentrating a lot more when landing on tarmac than I do approaching a small grass field. Regards Gary Algate Model 4 /Jab2200 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john perry Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john perry" If I see a creek bed or river bar or field strip big enough to get in and out then i try it . That is what these planes are for short field and fun . when you start talking safety try driving down the freeway and see how safe you are . use good judgement and if you are secure in your abilities to get into and out of short rough fields then by all meens DONT TRY IT . But if you want to experience what the plane can really do then try it , you will love it . John flying safe flying low flying slow . Kitfox 2 N718PD 582 gsc/ivo inflight soon to be on floats ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxmike" Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:03 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" > > I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us actually land in a > rough off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. Off field, or the > boonees landing is very risky and I concider most to be extrem flying. Am > I the only one that takes safety seriously and determines yes or no to a > landing site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the engine quites. I > say, that's not a normal. > > My definition of extrem is daredevil. > > -------- > kitfoxmike > kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster > http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike > rv7 wingkit > reserved 287RV > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > ELT was turned off luckily or it would surely of gone off and then a report would have to been filed. Is that such a bad thing? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57227#57227 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:19 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mechanic near 35A? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Wingnut, I might be off here but I "think" you can make the changes to your fuel lines you just can't sign off the yearly conditional inspection. This might not be the right attitude but nobody is ever going to know you changed the fuel lines anyway. Besides, I don't think changing a fuel line would be considered a major change any more than changing oil or spark plugs. As far as the pitch trim goes, (this is just a thought) fabricate another piece of linkage or screw the original one in/out to put the trim tab back to zero and disable the servo until you can get to a spot for further repairs. I rarely ever use my elevator trim. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:23 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Mechanic near 35A? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > I want to have them replaced with automotive lines. Only problem is that > I'm not the builder so, as I understand it, I'm not allowed to make this > kind of modification myself... Any thoughts? > > my pitch trim decided to stop working yesterday (it's stuck in the > landing configuration) so I'm giong to have to trailer it. I'm so > depressed...:-( ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:11 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mechanic near 35A? From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > Therefore, any maintenance on an experimental > airplane can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of credentials. > Hmm. That's something to chew on. I guess I'll wait until I can talk to a loca A&P. Thanks for the heads up. -Luis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57228#57228 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:33 AM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mechanic near 35A? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson I never heard that the owner of an experimental cannot do his own maint. or repairs. The only thing you cannot do if you did not build the plane is the annual inspection. If you are confused about the rules just ask the EAA and they will tell you what I said above. Just follow the advice from the list members as to how to solve your leak. Regards, Paul ============ At 07:23 AM 8/25/2006, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > >The fuel odor in my kitfox is getting worse. I suspect that it's the >fuel lines so I want to have them replaced with automotive lines. >Only problem is that I'm not the builder so, as I understand it, I'm >not allowed to make this kind of modification myself... Any thoughts? > >Can someone point me to a good shop in the near 34A (no FBO at my >airport). I need something close because my pitch trim decided to >stop working yesterday (it's stuck in the landing configuration) so >I'm giong to have to trailer it. I'm so depressed...:-( ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:27 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mechanic near 35A? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" "wingnut": It is my understanding that you can do the lines replacement and any other maintenance on your experimental. What you can't do is to perform or sign the annual condition inspection because you are not the repairman. Listers, if this information is incorrect, please provide feedback for the benefit of all. Regards! Jose --- wingnut wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > > The fuel odor in my kitfox is getting worse. I > suspect that it's the fuel lines so I want to have > them replaced with automotive lines. Only problem is > that I'm not the builder so, as I understand it, I'm > not allowed to make this kind of modification > myself... Any thoughts? > > Can someone point me to a good shop in the near 34A > (no FBO at my airport). I need something close > because my pitch trim decided to stop working > yesterday (it's stuck in the landing configuration) > so I'm giong to have to trailer it. I'm so > depressed...:-( > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57217#57217 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:06 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: (off-topic) 9/11 pilots. WAS: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Brian, Michel and all the listers: Sorry for the misunderstanding!!! English is not my first language. Of course, I'm talking about the terrorists pilot that took control of the planes and their sick minds. My respect and symphaties to all the persons that lost family members and close people that terrible day. Jose --- Michel Verheughe wrote: > > From: Brian Smith [bsmith3163@aol.com] > > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing > this guy to the pilots that > > lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. > > Brian, I know too well Jose to know that it is a > regretable misunderstanding, he was comparing John > Galt, not to the actual pilots of the four planes, > but to the terrorists who took over (short-period > pilots). > > The entire world has nothing but compassion and > respect for all the victims of 9/11, pilots, > fire-fighters, civilians, and their families. > And the few who don't ... are not worth breathing > our air on this planet. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > > 

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__________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:23 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger dangerous --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" I changed out a ground adjustable wood prop last year. The company that manufactured the prop gave it a five year 500 hr. which ever comes first TBO. The prop was close to 15 yr. Being a coward at heart I decided to opt for a new composite unit. That was my reason for asking for a few more particulars. I have intentionally not mentioned the names of the manufacturers here so you won't, by accident, compromise any legal actions. Thanx Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:51 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a > taildragger dangerous > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > > Hi Noel, > > For legal reasons and ongoing litigation I cannot disclose too much. > I will say it was a single engine landplane flying 1000 agl > at cruise when > what seemed like a shotgoun went off in my face. > Windshield cracked and part departed as well as parts of the cowl and > spinner as well as one blade. > > I was over a grass strip at the time but opted for a field > that had a better > approach and longer. > Landing was un-eventful and plane was dismantled and loaded > on trailer. > > Luckily this was over a rural area and not over a city. I > had just come > from a control zone and enroute to another. > ELT was turned off luckily or it would surely of gone off and > then a report > would have to been filed. > > Dave > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Noel Loveys" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:22 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a > taildragger > dangerous > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > > > > > > With a prop lost you have to be one of the luckiest guys > around. I'm > > curious as to the type of plane and prop that was.... I'm > not looking for > > brand names just general info. > > > > Noel > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave > >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:55 PM > >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a > >> taildragger dangerous > >> > >> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > >> > >> I fly off grass 98% on wheels when no snow > >> I fly off 98 % skis when there is no snow and sometimes on > >> just grass with > >> skis.( straight skis only ) > >> I fly off water and asphault and grass strips when on amphibs > >> I have practiced forced approaches since I started flying > >> over 25 years ago > >> and have had 4 forced landings. > >> - one engine failure - homebuilt > >> -one carb came loose and engine failed homebuilt > >> -one lost power on TO in 172 and deadstick back to airport > >> - one prop failure ( blade departed) and landed in field > >> with engine just > >> barely attached. > >> > >> all the above -- no damage to landing gear or anything other > >> that the last > >> prop failure where the windshield blew out and firewall got > >> partially torn > >> away from engine shaking around. > >> > >> moral of story is practice certainly helps in realtime. > >> > >> same story for spins -- if you cannot demostrate and be > >> proficient then just > >> a course in "awareness " does not necessarily cut it. How > >> many get killed > >> from stall/spin accidents yearly but only instructors need to > >> train for them > >> ? > >> > >> > >> Dave > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "kitfoxmike" > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:03 PM > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a > taildragger > >> dangerous > >> > >> > >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" > >> > >> > > >> > I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us > >> actually land in a > >> > rough off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. > >> Off field, or the > >> > boonees landing is very risky and I concider most to be > >> extrem flying. Am > >> > I the only one that takes safety seriously and determines > >> yes or no to a > >> > landing site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the > >> engine quites. I > >> > say, that's not a normal. > >> > > >> > My definition of extrem is daredevil. > >> > > >> > -------- > >> > kitfoxmike > >> > kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster > >> > http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike > >> > rv7 wingkit > >> > reserved 287RV > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Read this topic online here: > >> > > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:27 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Brian: I sent my apologies for the misunderstanding in a separate e-mail to the list. I supposed it should have been terrible for your as a professional pilot to do your first flight right after those events. I can imagine the combination of feelings, memories, and fear you had in your mind on that first flight. It's so sad America and the World had to face that experience. Regards! Jose --- Brian Smith wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" > > > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this > guy to the pilots that > lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not > their "flying judgements" > that caused these events to happen. Being an AA > pilot, I lost friends that > day and I walked the platform over the site that > only family members were > allowed to go to and there were way too many > pictures of lost friends and > family to make this kind of statement lightly. > > Brian > > Do Not Archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Jose M. Toro > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:44 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > --> > > Don: > > Thanks for your decision!!! If this person is > really a pilot, and his > flying judgements are similar to his postings, then > the sky is not anymore > as safe as it used to be. Any relation with the 911 > pilots??? > > Jose > > --- John Galt wrote: > > > Talk about a hypocrite! All the accusations you > make against me, yet > > it is your members who are full of hate. Shall I > repost the other > > members message who wished me to die because I > owned a piper cherokee? > > > > Mr. Pearsall, you are truly a sick and closed > minded individial who > > supports the hate of your membership towards > anyone who would question > > the kitfox purple koolaid. > > > > And take your head out of your ass. It is people > like yourself and > > some of your list that condone the abuse of > children during their sex > > vacations in Thailand that sicken me. I will not > keep your dirty > > little secret that your list members hold. > > > > And not resubscribe to the list? The beauty of the > internet is that > > you can change your e-mail address. I will now > make it my mission to > > let all know what a sick bunch of preverts invest > this kitfox list. > > You truly should be ashamed of yourself. > > > > > > > > On 8/24/06, Don Pearsall > > wrote: > > > > > > Mr.. Galt, > > > You have been given many chances to be > supportive > > and to contribute > > > positively to the Kitfox forum. We have over 400 > > members who can manage to > > > do that with no controversy. You have chosen not > > to do so. Instead you > > > answer every post with some complaint about a > > member, and post bizarre > > > messages such as about child sex in Thailand. > > > > > > The last straw is this post where you publicly > > posted a member's private > > > message to you. That was a breach of > > confidentiality that we cannot > > > tolerate. > > > > > > Sorry it did not work out for you, but you are > > gone. Do not try to > > > re-subscribe. > > > > > > Don Pearsall > > > List Administrator > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto: > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On > Behalf > > Of *John Galt > > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:25 PM > > > *To:* Rexster > > > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in Thailand? > > > > > > > > > Mesier Rexster: > > > > > > Well, judging by the amount of personal attacks > I > > have recieved, including > > > your e-mail below, it doesn't seem like a > friendly > > place... certainly not if > > > you disagree with anyone or question the > > collective. > > > > > > Still, I bet you do feel better after getting > that > > off your chest, so we > > > might as well share that with everyone. > Ahhhhh.... > > much better, aye? > > > > > > > > > On 8/24/06, Rexster wrote: > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > You're an interesting fellow. I'm curious > > about what your history is. > > > > Try to understand that I'm not getting on your > > case, but trying to > > > > understand you. It seems that all you want to > do > > on the forum is argue and > > > > fight with people on what for the rest of us, > is > > a friendly chat place. I'm > > > > sure that this lack of people skills transfers > > into the rest of your life > > > > and you probably have very few friends, if > any. > > That's sad for someone to go > > > > through life like that. I'm surprised from the > > many people on the forum that > > > > are appalled by your comments that you > continue > > to be nasty with almost all > > > > of your emails to the forum. > > > > > > > > Out of curiosity, there's a fellow from my > > high school graduating > > > > class who has completely alienated himself > from > > the rest of the class with a > > > > similar attitude. Everybody shakes their heads > > in amazement at how nasty he > > > > is and why he chooses that lifestyle. It's sad > > to see him so miserable. > > > > There's no way to ask him as he's even less > > approachable than you are (I > > > > think). We feel badly for him and the > lifestyle > > he chooses as I actually > > > > liked him during high school. We're all trying > > to figure out what makes him > > > > like that. The rest of us have had so much fun > > getting together and enjoying > > > > emails with each other over the years. Why > would > > he choose to constantly be > > > > digging up things to argue about? You seem a > bit > > more talkative so maybe you > > > > can give me some insight. Life is too short to > > be like that. > > > > > > > > One more question. I've noticed that both of > > you guys like to use long > > > > words that don't seem to come up in most > > people's conversations. I don't > > > > save any of the forum emails if they're not > > pertaining to Kitfoxes so I > > > > don't have examples to give you. The only one > I > > remember (zealots)isn't that > > > > uncommon but you do tend to use pretty big > and > > uncommon terms. The fellow > > > > from my high school class does the same thing. > > Any ideas here? > > > > > > > > I doubt that at this stage in your life that > > we'd be able to help you > > > > be a happier person, but my guess would be > that > > if you talked to people on > > > > the forum with in a friendlier manner that > you'd > > be more welcome. Keep in > > > > mind that I'm not trying to make you feel bad, > I > > would just like to > > > > understand what makes you seem to enjoy > haggling > > with people. Life can be so > > > > much more fun if you make friends instead. > > > > > > > > Please note that I'm sending this to you > > personally and not the entire > > > > Kitfox forum. Let's keep the personal stuff > off > > of there. Good luck to you > > > > and I hope things get better for you. > > > > > > > > Rex in Michigan > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > > > Guess you'll be quick to sell it with that > > attitude. > > > > > > > > On 8/24/06, Noel Loveys > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Not even warm! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > *From:* > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto: > > > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On > > Behalf Of *John Galt > > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:35 AM > > > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in > > Thailand? > > > > > > > > > > Yeap, the other poster did not like my > > comment that it is a buyers > > > > > market out there, let alone for > experimentals. > > Big money? You mean in the > > > > > $14K range? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, Noel Loveys < > noelloveys@yahoo.ca > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Consider that some people, I'm one, who > > didn't figure out your > > > > > > original comment in relation pricing a > > plane. Consider also the ire, make > > > > > > that blind rage, the words "child sex > > trade", would invoke! > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it's time to close the book on this > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can buy my model III-A 582"B" box w/ > Ivo > > in flight three blade > > > > > > UL Aerocet floats and straight skis wheels > > if you want 'em..... Bring > > > > > > money..... Big MONEY! > > > > > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > *From:* > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] > *On > > Behalf Of *John Galt > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:16 > PM > > > > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in > > Thailand? > > > > > > > > > > > > Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I > > look for Kitfoxes to buy or > > > > > > is even that frowned upon by the list > > crumogeons on here? Too bad you were > > > > > > not reading the thread, you would have > > figured out what I was talking > > > > > > about. I was objecting to the list zealots > > attacking a man (not me) for > > > > > > "pricing his kitfox too low". If anyone > > needs counseling, it is them. Or > > > > > > perhaps a one way ticket to Thailand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, Rexster > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > John Galt, > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you checked into some good > counseling > > in your area? Nobody on > > > > > > this list seems to have a clue how you > have > > connected Kifox flyers with sex > > > > > > trade and/or religious zealots. I would > > guess that this issue isn't the only > > > > > > termoil you have going on in your head. > > Please stay off of this forum unless > > > > > > you're here for the intended purpose. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rex in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > -- "Don Smythe" wrote: > > > > > > *From:* John Galt > > > > > > > > > > > > I realize these religious zealots exist in > > any vocation, so it will > > > > > > not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole > > point is the market sets the > > > > > > price, not some over zealous evangelist, > no > > matter how well intentioned they > > > > > > may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS > > EVANGELIST... > > > > > > I don't think I'll respond anymore to > this. > > No telling what I'll > > > > > > hear next. Fly alone young man. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don Smythe > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > tronics.comics.com > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt > p://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:30 AM PST US From: "Brian Smith" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" No problems. I guess that I am a little punchy in the morning. Good day and good flying. B. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:22 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" --> Brian: I sent my apologies for the misunderstanding in a separate e-mail to the list. I supposed it should have been terrible for your as a professional pilot to do your first flight right after those events. I can imagine the combination of feelings, memories, and fear you had in your mind on that first flight. It's so sad America and the World had to face that experience. Regards! Jose --- Brian Smith wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" > > > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this guy to the pilots > that lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not their "flying > judgements" > that caused these events to happen. Being an AA pilot, I lost friends > that day and I walked the platform over the site that only family > members were allowed to go to and there were way too many pictures of > lost friends and family to make this kind of statement lightly. > > Brian > > Do Not Archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. > Toro > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:44 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > --> > > Don: > > Thanks for your decision!!! If this person is really a pilot, and his > flying judgements are similar to his postings, then the sky is not > anymore as safe as it used to be. Any relation with the 911 pilots??? > > Jose > > --- John Galt wrote: > > > Talk about a hypocrite! All the accusations you > make against me, yet > > it is your members who are full of hate. Shall I > repost the other > > members message who wished me to die because I > owned a piper cherokee? > > > > Mr. Pearsall, you are truly a sick and closed > minded individial who > > supports the hate of your membership towards > anyone who would question > > the kitfox purple koolaid. > > > > And take your head out of your ass. It is people > like yourself and > > some of your list that condone the abuse of > children during their sex > > vacations in Thailand that sicken me. I will not > keep your dirty > > little secret that your list members hold. > > > > And not resubscribe to the list? The beauty of the > internet is that > > you can change your e-mail address. I will now > make it my mission to > > let all know what a sick bunch of preverts invest > this kitfox list. > > You truly should be ashamed of yourself. > > > > > > > > On 8/24/06, Don Pearsall > > wrote: > > > > > > Mr.. Galt, > > > You have been given many chances to be > supportive > > and to contribute > > > positively to the Kitfox forum. We have over 400 > > members who can manage to > > > do that with no controversy. You have chosen not > > to do so. Instead you > > > answer every post with some complaint about a > > member, and post bizarre > > > messages such as about child sex in Thailand. > > > > > > The last straw is this post where you publicly > > posted a member's private > > > message to you. That was a breach of > > confidentiality that we cannot > > > tolerate. > > > > > > Sorry it did not work out for you, but you are > > gone. Do not try to > > > re-subscribe. > > > > > > Don Pearsall > > > List Administrator > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto: > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On > Behalf > > Of *John Galt > > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:25 PM > > > *To:* Rexster > > > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in Thailand? > > > > > > > > > Mesier Rexster: > > > > > > Well, judging by the amount of personal attacks > I > > have recieved, including > > > your e-mail below, it doesn't seem like a > friendly > > place... certainly not if > > > you disagree with anyone or question the > > collective. > > > > > > Still, I bet you do feel better after getting > that > > off your chest, so we > > > might as well share that with everyone. > Ahhhhh.... > > much better, aye? > > > > > > > > > On 8/24/06, Rexster wrote: > > > > > > > > John, > > > > > > > > You're an interesting fellow. I'm curious > > about what your history is. > > > > Try to understand that I'm not getting on your > > case, but trying to > > > > understand you. It seems that all you want to > do > > on the forum is argue and > > > > fight with people on what for the rest of us, > is > > a friendly chat place. I'm > > > > sure that this lack of people skills transfers > > into the rest of your life > > > > and you probably have very few friends, if > any. > > That's sad for someone to go > > > > through life like that. I'm surprised from the > > many people on the forum that > > > > are appalled by your comments that you > continue > > to be nasty with almost all > > > > of your emails to the forum. > > > > > > > > Out of curiosity, there's a fellow from my > > high school graduating > > > > class who has completely alienated himself > from > > the rest of the class with a > > > > similar attitude. Everybody shakes their heads > > in amazement at how nasty he > > > > is and why he chooses that lifestyle. It's sad > > to see him so miserable. > > > > There's no way to ask him as he's even less > > approachable than you are (I > > > > think). We feel badly for him and the > lifestyle > > he chooses as I actually > > > > liked him during high school. We're all trying > > to figure out what makes him > > > > like that. The rest of us have had so much fun > > getting together and enjoying > > > > emails with each other over the years. Why > would > > he choose to constantly be > > > > digging up things to argue about? You seem a > bit > > more talkative so maybe you > > > > can give me some insight. Life is too short to > > be like that. > > > > > > > > One more question. I've noticed that both of > > you guys like to use long > > > > words that don't seem to come up in most > > people's conversations. I don't > > > > save any of the forum emails if they're not > > pertaining to Kitfoxes so I > > > > don't have examples to give you. The only one > I > > remember (zealots)isn't that > > > > uncommon but you do tend to use pretty big > and > > uncommon terms. The fellow > > > > from my high school class does the same thing. > > Any ideas here? > > > > > > > > I doubt that at this stage in your life that > > we'd be able to help you > > > > be a happier person, but my guess would be > that > > if you talked to people on > > > > the forum with in a friendlier manner that > you'd > > be more welcome. Keep in > > > > mind that I'm not trying to make you feel bad, > I > > would just like to > > > > understand what makes you seem to enjoy > haggling > > with people. Life can be so > > > > much more fun if you make friends instead. > > > > > > > > Please note that I'm sending this to you > > personally and not the entire > > > > Kitfox forum. Let's keep the personal stuff > off > > of there. Good luck to you > > > > and I hope things get better for you. > > > > > > > > Rex in Michigan > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Guess you'll be quick to > > > > sell it with that > > attitude. > > > > > > > > On 8/24/06, Noel Loveys > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Not even warm! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > *From:* > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto: > > > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] *On > > Behalf Of *John Galt > > > > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:35 AM > > > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in > > Thailand? > > > > > > > > > > Yeap, the other poster did not like my > > comment that it is a buyers > > > > > market out there, let alone for > experimentals. > > Big money? You mean in the > > > > > $14K range? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, Noel Loveys < > noelloveys@yahoo.ca > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Consider that some people, I'm one, who > > didn't figure out your > > > > > > original comment in relation pricing a > > plane. Consider also the ire, make > > > > > > that blind rage, the words "child sex > > trade", would invoke! > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it's time to close the book on this > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can buy my model III-A 582"B" box w/ > Ivo > > in flight three blade > > > > > > UL Aerocet floats and straight skis wheels > > if you want 'em..... Bring > > > > > > money..... Big MONEY! > > > > > > > > > > > > Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > *From:* > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > > > > > > owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] > *On > > Behalf Of *John Galt > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:16 > PM > > > > > > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in > > Thailand? > > > > > > > > > > > > Gosh Rex, is it permissable to you if I > > look for Kitfoxes to buy or > > > > > > is even that frowned upon by the list > > crumogeons on here? Too bad you were > > > > > > not reading the thread, you would have > > figured out what I was talking > > > > > > about. I was objecting to the list zealots > > attacking a man (not me) for > > > > > > "pricing his kitfox too low". If anyone > > needs counseling, it is them. Or > > > > > > perhaps a one way ticket to Thailand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/23/06, Rexster > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > John Galt, > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you checked into some good > counseling > > in your area? Nobody on > > > > > > this list seems to have a clue how you > have > > connected Kifox flyers with sex > > > > > > trade and/or religious zealots. I would > > guess that this issue isn't the only > > > > > > termoil you have going on in your head. > > Please stay off of this forum unless > > > > > > you're here for the intended purpose. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rex in Michigan > > > > > > > > > > > > -- "Don Smythe" wrote: > > > > > > *From:* John Galt > > > > > > > > > > > > I realize these religious zealots exist in > > any vocation, so it will > > > > > > not cool my interest in kitfoxes. My sole > > point is the market sets the > > > > > > price, not some over zealous evangelist, > no > > matter how well intentioned they > > > > > > may be. > > > > > > > > > > > > RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS...........ZEALOUS > > EVANGELIST... > > > > > > I don't think I'll respond anymore to > this. > > No telling what I'll > > > > > > hear next. Fly alone young man. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don Smythe > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > tronics.comics.com > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt > p://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:30 AM PST US From: "Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip I think a lot depends on climate and drainage. In N.Ontario most of the privately developed strips are mounded so that during the thaw the strip remains dry and useable in Spring. Even in the clay based soils this still works - they basically move the soil to the centre if the strip and then roll it to contour the desired run off. Once seeded they continue to roll and after about two years they are perfect and useable year round. I have attached a photo of our strip and as you can see the approach is interesting as you fly between two telephone poles on final (The wire goes underground) but passengers can find this a little disconcerting Gary Algate Model 4 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" I own a bit of rough field that I'd like to turn into a nice grass strip. Anyone out there have any experience doing this kind of thing? I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve talked to some of the locals around here that do some grading but it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a little out of their range of experience. Someone suggested that I hire a motor grader but then another guy pointed out that the first thing they do with a grader is push off all the topsoil. When they=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2re done grading, you=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2re left with huge piles of lumpy topsoil to deal with that won=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t spread back onto the strip without making it lumpy again. This route seems like overkill to me. The field is rough but it=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s mostly level so I was hoping that I could get it smooth without bringing in heavy equipment. I thought about tilling about six inches and then smoothing it with my tractor but I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m sold that this would make the field to soft to use for years=C3=A2=82=AC=C2 Any thoughts? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57223#57223 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:59 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip From: "kitfoxmike" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" Looks like a very nice strip. -------- kitfoxmike kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike rv7 wingkit reserved 287RV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57247#57247 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:51 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated From: "kitfoxmike" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" Like most others I to didn't follow the thai thread until now. I just read through it and was amazed on how it progressed. I can only say that this guy must have something agains anybody that chooses to go into Thailand period. Anyway, glad the guy is gone, seemed to have a loose screw. -------- kitfoxmike kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike rv7 wingkit reserved 287RV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57248#57248 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:57 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" This is another case where the use of a phrase that is close to the humanity of every one can cause an immediate ire. This is especially true if there is any question at all in the readers mind there may be a distasteful comment being made... Just another case of "Open mouth - change feet" Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Ted Palamarek > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:15 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" > > > Brian > > I read that to mean the "So called pilots" that took over the > plane and then > created the havoc and not the airline pilots. > > Ted Palamarek > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Brian Smith > Sent: August 25, 2006 5:38 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" > > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing this guy to > the pilots that > lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not their > "flying judgements" > that caused these events to happen. Being an AA pilot, I > lost friends that > day and I walked the platform over the site that only family > members were > allowed to go to and there were way too many pictures of lost > friends and > family to make this kind of statement lightly. > > Brian > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:11 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > they basically move the soil to the centre if the strip and then roll it to contour the desired run off. Don't have to worry about a thaw in SC but runoff from rain is an issue. When they push the soil to the middle, do they scrape off the topsoil first? I was told that once you dig up top soil, it has to be discarded because the grass roots make it impossible to smooth out. > Once seeded they continue to roll and after about two years they are perfect and useable year round So you couldn't use the field for two years? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57250#57250 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:18 AM PST US From: "MA Stanard" Subject: Kitfox-List: i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. thanks, mas ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:42 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" If you want a good strip plow it, disk it, drag it, plant it, and once the grass is doing well, roll it. If you have access to a grader, crown it slightly between disking and dragging. Keep that top soil. Most of the work you can do yourself if you have the tractor, etc. Mine is just a hay field that was in pretty good shape so I just mowed and rolled it. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:49 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > I own a bit of rough field that I'd like to turn into a nice grass strip. Anyone out there have any experience doing this kind of thing? I?Tve talked to some of the locals around here that do some grading but it?Ts a little out of their range of experience. Someone suggested that I hire a motor grader but then another guy pointed out that the first thing they do with a grader is push off all the topsoil. When they?Tre done grading, you?Tre left with huge piles of lumpy topsoil to deal with that won?Tt spread back onto the strip without making it lumpy again. This route seems like overkill to me. The field is rough but it?Ts mostly level so I was hoping that I could get it smooth without bringing in heavy equipment. I thought about tilling about six inches and then smoothing it with my tractor but I?Tm sold that this would make the field to soft to use for years? Any thoughts? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57223#57223 > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:27 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" You are absolutely right Noel! Jose --- Noel Loveys wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > > This is another case where the use of a phrase that > is close to the humanity > of every one can cause an immediate ire. This is > especially true if there > is any question at all in the readers mind there may > be a distasteful > comment being made... > > Just another case of "Open mouth - change feet" > > Noel > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of > > Ted Palamarek > > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:15 AM > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted > Palamarek" > > > > > > Brian > > > > I read that to mean the "So called pilots" that > took over the > > plane and then > > created the havoc and not the airline pilots. > > > > Ted Palamarek > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of > > Brian Smith > > Sent: August 25, 2006 5:38 AM > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Member Terminated > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" > > > > > Jose, I hope that you are not really comparing > this guy to > > the pilots that > > lost their lives in the 9/11 tragedy. It was not > their > > "flying judgements" > > that caused these events to happen. Being an AA > pilot, I > > lost friends that > > day and I walked the platform over the site that > only family > > members were > > allowed to go to and there were way too many > pictures of lost > > friends and > > family to make this kind of statement lightly. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:57 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Mechanic near 35A? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Luis: Another source for this information is the EAA web site, www.eaa.org. I know this specific question is answered in that site. Jose --- wingnut wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > > > > Therefore, any maintenance on an experimental > > airplane can be performed virtually by anyone > regardless of credentials. > > > > > Hmm. That's something to chew on. I guess I'll wait > until I can talk to a loca A&P. Thanks for the heads > up. > > -Luis > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57228#57228 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:02 AM PST US From: "John Marzulli" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: FLOAT PLANE GROUP: CZECH FLOATS Actually, Chip Erwin posted on the Zenith list this week stating that CZAW has developed a new series of floats that are not derived from the Zenair series. -John in Seattle ( 27 years old, but building a CH701 ) On 8/24/06, Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote: > > the check floats are the old zenair beefed up they where available as a > kit at one time I am building a set now Murphy in Canada still makes a set > as a kit about $6,000 > mal modil 2 582 > > * > > > * > > -- John Marzulli http://701Builder.blogspot.com/ "Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:23 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Hi, I have 2 strips here. One I cultivated and harrowed and seeded in fall and picked stones on every walk down it . Other one was in wheat with clover. In the fall, I ran the bush hog over it and chopped it all up and then ran plug aeroator down it and overseeded and the grass is good. It is not as smooth as the one I first mentioned but it still better than alot of grass strips and i get guys in with amphibs and they usualy comment how smooth it is. . I cut with a finished mower with a roller on the back and it gets better every year. Worst time is on a dry year and the roller has little impact except in spring. And it does not hurt to keep grass a bit longer like 2 to 3 inches and get lot of mulch on it from clippings to shelter the ground from evaporation of the soil. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > >> they basically move the soil to the centre if the strip and then roll it >> to contour the desired run off. > > > Don't have to worry about a thaw in SC but runoff from rain is an issue. > When they push the soil to the middle, do they scrape off the topsoil > first? I was told that once you dig up top soil, it has to be discarded > because the grass roots make it impossible to smooth out. > > >> Once seeded they continue to roll and after about two years they are >> perfect and useable year round > > > So you couldn't use the field for two years? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57250#57250 > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:31 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" Deke: What did you roll your field with? Was it one of those heavy duty jobs that you drive? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57264#57264 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:51 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: (off-topic) Amsterdam-Schiphol intercept --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe As you probably know, two days ago a Northwest airliner had to return to Amsterdam - Schiphol, escorted by two Dutch F-16. http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/08/23/schiphol/index.html Here is the sound file of the communication between the pilots and controllers: http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/Intercept.wav Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:50 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mechanic near 35A? From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" Thanks for the help guys. To be honest, I'm still a little nervous about pulling fuel lines myself. I pulled the turtledeck last night and it looked like a somewhat involved job. I just happened to discover the trim failure the same night (maybe that was God's way of telling me to get an A&P :-) ). Then again, it was night and the hangar lights weren't as helpfull as I would have liked. I'll sneek out for lunch today and see if things look a little less scary in daylight... What's the best way to drain the fuel? Should I leave a little in the header tank? -Luis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57269#57269 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:46 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: literary references From: "John Galt" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Galt" Marco: I suspect this was lost on most of the list members, but very good find. I wish you well and you are a credit to this list. Regards, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57275#57275 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:51 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox for sale From: "John Galt" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Galt" Hey Don: Do you have a weblink for your plane? Still a bit rich for my blood, but moving in the right direction. I'm a cash buyer. Don't let the price fixers get you down, it is the market that sets the price. Regards, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57280#57280 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:59 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Poll --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Aug 25, 2006, at 5:08 PM, MA Stanard wrote: > i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently > flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. The proper way to do this is to go to the forum: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8 and start a new poll. But before that, one has to list all Kitfox models and all engine types. I am not sure I can do that. Anyone else? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:03 AM PST US From: "Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" Sorry for clarity of post. No the field can be basically used immediately it's just that it improves year by year with rolling and mowing etc Gary Algate So you couldn't use the field for two years? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57250#57250 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:16 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Just for clarification . I do not know why you would want to remove topsoil at all. You want to plant into the topsoil. If you are going to be raising the runway above the current level , then by all means remove the top soil and use after your leveling and filling has been done. If you plant this fall you can fly off it when dry but it would be better to wait for the grass to at least germinate so that you do not blow the loose dirt and seed around. You might also check into renting a brillion seeder which is a seed drill for grass. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > >> they basically move the soil to the centre if the strip and then roll it >> to contour the desired run off. > > > Don't have to worry about a thaw in SC but runoff from rain is an issue. > When they push the soil to the middle, do they scrape off the topsoil > first? I was told that once you dig up top soil, it has to be discarded > because the grass roots make it impossible to smooth out. > > >> Once seeded they continue to roll and after about two years they are >> perfect and useable year round > > > So you couldn't use the field for two years? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57250#57250 > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:34 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." Probably not, I'd half bet there's one flying somewhere with a Briggs and Stratton. But it should be possible to list the majors, with a spot for "other". Bigs ones would be Rotax 912, 532, 582, Subaru, Jabiru. That likely covers more than 95%. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:48 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Poll > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > On Aug 25, 2006, at 5:08 PM, MA Stanard wrote: >> i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently >> flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. > > The proper way to do this is to go to the forum: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8 > > and start a new poll. But before that, one has to list all Kitfox models > and all engine types. I am not sure I can do that. Anyone else? > > Cheers, > Michel > > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:40 AM PST US From: "Mike Crutchlow" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model II with 582 bluehead and a tailwheel. Mike C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MA Stanard Sent: August 25, 2006 11:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. thanks, mas ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:35 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." > On Aug 25, 2006, at 5:08 PM, MA Stanard wrote: >> i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently >> flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. > I'm guessing none have nose and tail wheels, most people will manage to choose one or the other. I have seen a picture of one with floats and a tail wheel. ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grass strips From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Speaking of grass strips, Deke, what're the dimensions for yours and the headings? Easier to get in and out than Howland? Lynn do not archive On Friday, August 25, 2006, at 07:51 AM, Fox5flyer wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more > forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than > paved > strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even > better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people > who > have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up > here > in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds > me of > the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control. > Deke > S5 TD > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" >> >> I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are > done. >> Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a >> grass >> strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure > that >> everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a >> former >> Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world >> >> >> --Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger > McConnell >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a >> taildragger >> dangerous >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" >> >> >> Mike, >> Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete. >> Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or >> made > the >> push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very >> much, > just >> not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I > haven't >> gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety >> conscious. >> >> Roger Mac >> S7/912s (trigear) >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> kitfoxmike >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:04 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger >> dangerous >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" >> >> I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us actually land in a > rough >> off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. Off field, or the > boonees >> landing is very risky and I concider most to be extrem flying. Am I >> the >> only one that takes safety seriously and determines yes or no to a >> landing >> site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the engine quites. I >> say, >> that's not a normal. >> >> My definition of extrem is daredevil. >> >> -------- >> kitfoxmike >> kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster >> http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike >> rv7 wingkit >> reserved 287RV >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:03 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: (off topic) The experience of sailing. WAS: Is a taildragger From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" > Michel sez > It is a common concept that the wind "hits harder" in the winter but it is attributed to the general discomfort of feeling a cold wind, which indeed feels "harder." Michel, I don't have an anemometer either. I was recalling a trip I made and... It was probably my skin that was becoming harder as well as an icy crust on things and frozen knots, etc. I always wondered how those northern sailors managed. I don't want to know more. I'll do my best to avoid extreme cold while sailing. I've not flown much in winter yet. I'd imagine that it's more difficult to carry out 'normal' preparation for flight, etc. I've pretty much decided I'll begin my KF flying in warmer months. My last miserable sail (I pulled into the first port I could manage after the weather turned cold... not quite like punching up 'nearest airport on the GPS) was when I was sailing solo, going west 'around the horn' which I know considet to be going up and around Michigan's Lower Peninsula too late in the year. The wind speed continued to climb and it got colder and colder. I could hear on the radio that freighters were prepping to 'hove-to' in sheltered water behind islands in the straights... It started snowing. I finally made the harbor of Cheboygan about 3 am. I found out later that I had experienced the western edge of 'The Perfect Storm'. This was in November 2001. Other aspects of sailing that relate to flying are - preparation, planning, self sufficiency, and also confidence building based on experience. This shift in topic came from a comment by Dick, about kayaking and rudder peddle experience. I agree...... there are many experiences and many areas of knowledge that are related to or can be applied to flight, working on, building planes, etc. There is a wealth of knowledge represented by this group and its a pleasure to continue to learn by participating. Thanks to all! Richard PS - on the topic of dangerous configuration or risk, as experienced in float training, and, anticipated in the future... I will feel very much at home on floats. Do not achive -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57301#57301 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:03 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > I do not know why you would want to remove topsoil at all. I don't. I was informed by a local company that this is what they would have to do to get it smooth. Their explanation is that, if they didn't, any dirt they moved that had grass roots in it would be lumpy and they couldn't smooth it out. I didn't like the idea myself but these guys are not experienced with runways. > I cut with a finished mower with a roller on the back and it gets better every year. Are you talking about one of those big barrels that you fill with water? How did you attach it to the mower deck? I was thinking I'd need to pick up one of those but I wasn't sure how effective they were. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57302#57302 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:22 AM PST US From: Tony Clark Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mechanic near 35A? i too had a fuel odor for a time and also couldn't determine the source. it ended up being from stress cracks at the formed ends near the welds of the aluminum wing fuel tanks. the cracks were so small that only minor discoloration from fuel occurred, but you still got the odor in the cockpit from the wing roots. the cracks were fortunately near the top of the tank and there was never any measurable loss of fuel. (of couse, lighting up a cigarette in the closed cabin would've been interesting) flying with the doors opened eliminated the odor and kept me flying til time for the annual inspection, at which time the wings were removed and slosh seal installed in both tanks. problem solved. finding the problem took a lot of looking, smelling and shaking of the plane with all the cowlings off and everything opened up for inspection. the stress cracks only appeared in one tank, but i sealed them both just to be sure. wingnut wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" The fuel odor in my kitfox is getting worse. I suspect that it's the fuel lines so I want to have them replaced with automotive lines. Only problem is that I'm not the builder so, as I understand it, I'm not allowed to make this kind of modification myself... Any thoughts? Can someone point me to a good shop in the near 34A (no FBO at my airport). I need something close because my pitch trim decided to stop working yesterday (it's stuck in the landing configuration) so I'm giong to have to trailer it. I'm so depressed...:-( Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57217#57217 --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:08 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? From: "Michel" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" Please, select which Kitfox model you have, which engine and if a tri-gear or tail-dragger. Thank you, Michel -------- Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57305#57305 ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:03 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? From: "kitfoxmike" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" this poll only lets you pick one entry. -------- kitfoxmike kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike rv7 wingkit reserved 287RV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57307#57307 ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:56 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? From: "Michel" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" Here, we are listing the engines commonly used on Kitfoxes. Please select your engine. Thanks, Michel -------- Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57308#57308 ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:04 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? From: "Michel" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" Finally, do you have a tri-gear or tail-dragger? Michel -------- Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57309#57309 ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:13 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Aug 25, 2006, at 7:25 PM, Dave G. wrote: > Bigs ones would be Rotax 912, 532, 582, Subaru, Jabiru. That likely > covers more than 95%. Thanks Dave, here is the poll: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57305#57305 Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:30 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Poll From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Not currently flying but may as well include my 618. While not common, I've heard of others -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57311#57311 ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:45 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Grass strips From: "kitfoxmike" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" I never said landing on grass strips where for daredevils, but I believe some off field flying is. I'm sure a lot of us know what these are. I will try and describe some strips. On a side of a mountain where you land going up hill, greater than 4% grade. Holes and rocks sure enough to knock out a landing gear, if you where to take your 4X4 into them you wouldn't be able to drive through them very well. 150ft. trees on the approach end of the strip and then less than 1000ft length. Trees along the side of the runway, if you're off just a little your in them. Or try a cliff of the side of the strip that goes up 3000ft. that sujects you to cross winds and updrafts(yes you can argue that johnson creek is that way, but you have to remember, this strip is 150ft. wide and no trees). These are just some examples. I will say I've seen some real good grass fields and I've landed on them, I agree, grass is better than cement. Lot more forgiving. But there is a line to be drawn on what ones are safe and the ones that are daredevil strips. -------- kitfoxmike kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike rv7 wingkit reserved 287RV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57312#57312 ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:02 AM PST US From: Scott Patterson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott Patterson Kitfox IV. 912UL w/ Xtra Kit (10.5:1 compression ratio/93 HP). Nosewheel. Scott Patterson ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:00 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Mine finishing mower cuts 87 " and has 3 blades. It attaches to a 3 pt hitch on Massey diesel tractor. I made a hitch on the back of the mower to accept a drawbar type hitch with a 3/4 " pin. My roller is only 5 feet but wieghts near 1000 lbs with water. My neighbour has a better roller than I do and I would like to make one like his. It consists of a propane tank about 10 or 12 feet wide and diamter of about 30 to 36 " filled with water. With the rounded ends you will not get any scalping on sharp corners. I guess they were just talking about grading your proposed runway ? How smooth or rough is your field now ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > >> I do not know why you would want to remove topsoil at all. > > > I don't. I was informed by a local company that this is what they would > have to do to get it smooth. Their explanation is that, if they didn't, > any dirt they moved that had grass roots in it would be lumpy and they > couldn't smooth it out. I didn't like the idea myself but these guys are > not experienced with runways. > > >> I cut with a finished mower with a roller on the back and it gets better >> every year. > > Are you talking about one of those big barrels that you fill with water? > How did you attach it to the mower deck? I was thinking I'd need to pick > up one of those but I wasn't sure how effective they were. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57302#57302 > > > ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:04 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Grass strips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Where I live we don't have any extreme strips like that. But we got lots of water, lakes and rivers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxmike" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:27 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Grass strips > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" > > I never said landing on grass strips where for daredevils, but I believe > some off field flying is. I'm sure a lot of us know what these are. I > will try and describe some strips. On a side of a mountain where you land > going up hill, greater than 4% grade. Holes and rocks sure enough to > knock out a landing gear, if you where to take your 4X4 into them you > wouldn't be able to drive through them very well. 150ft. trees on the > approach end of the strip and then less than 1000ft length. Trees along > the side of the runway, if you're off just a little your in them. Or try > a cliff of the side of the strip that goes up 3000ft. that sujects you to > cross winds and updrafts(yes you can argue that johnson creek is that way, > but you have to remember, this strip is 150ft. wide and no trees). These > are just some examples. > > I will say I've seen some real good grass fields and I've landed on them, > I agree, grass is better than cement. Lot more forgiving. But there is a > line to be drawn on what ones are safe and the ones that are daredevil > strips. > > -------- > kitfoxmike > kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster > http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike > rv7 wingkit > reserved 287RV > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57312#57312 > > > ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:54 PM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grass strips I live on a grass strip and think everyone should fly from them. One caveat that did not occur to me despite 200 or more dry grass strip landings, however, is this: When wet, the grass is very slick. I was landing early one perfect morning and the dew had not yet evaporated. I touched down on the 1000ft strip at my Dad's house and applied a little brake as usual. No appreciable deceration. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed the main gear was locked. I stopped in plenty of time and with more respect for wet grass. Maxwell S6/TW/IO240 Fox5flyer wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than paved strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people who have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up here in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds me of the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control. Deke S5 TD > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" > > I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are done. > Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a grass > strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure that > everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a former > Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world > > > --Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger McConnell > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger > dangerous > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" > > Mike, > Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete. > Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or made the > push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very much, just > not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I haven't > gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety > conscious. > > Roger Mac > S7/912s (trigear) > DO NOT ARCHIVE > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:04 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger > dangerous > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" > > I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us actually land in a rough > off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. Off field, or the boonees > landing is very risky and I concider most to be extrem flying. Am I the > only one that takes safety seriously and determines yes or no to a landing > site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the engine quites. I say, > that's not a normal. > > My definition of extrem is daredevil. > > -------- > kitfoxmike > kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster > http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike > rv7 wingkit > reserved 287RV > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:17 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: (off topic) The experience of sailing --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Aug 25, 2006, at 7:51 PM, Richard Rabbers wrote: > I had experienced the western edge of 'The Perfect Storm'. This was in > November 2001 ... T ... Th ... The Perfect Storm, Richard? ? ? Fellow pilots, sorry this is off-topic, you don't have to read it but I MUST write it: Richard, you have certainly seen the movie "The Perfect Storm," so-called "Based on a true story," of the storm of October 1991, when the name was invented by a meteorologist. In the movie, a fishing vessel leaves harbour ... to never return. The entire movie is based on ... no witnesses and Hollywood calls it "based on a true story!" Ok, let's move on. In the movie, you see a yacht with its skipper and two female passengers on their way to Bermuda. Hearing about the storm, the skipper decides to go for deep water and ride the storm there, rather than in the shallow waters of Bermuda, something that worries the passengers. Later, the ship goes into a B2-knock-down (mast under the water) and the two women want to call for help. The skipper refuses, they call anyway and the US Coast Guards come to their rescue with two helicopters and a cutter. That is a true story. I even got a photo of the real sailboat, taken by the Coast Guards and given to me by Bob Makowsky, a Coast Guard pilot stationed in Puerto Rico. ( I used it in a training module on SAR). Where I get very angry is when the movie shows the two female passengers as the "right" people and the skipper as a fool. It is true that any sailor with a bit of sense shall seek deep water in a storm. Look at all the wrecks around Bermuda! It is true that only the skipper (a.k.a. Ship Master, the equivalent of PIC) can send a Mayday signal. Those women had no authority to do so. The result of which: a servicemen lost his life, while the sailboat was still floating the day after and was even towed to harbour by a passing vessel. So, Hollywood is wrong! This being said, the super warm and humid air from the Gulf, meeting the super cool and dry polar air ... then passing over the shallow water of the Great Banks, yes, it can create freak waves as the one shown in the movie. And such a single wave was registered from a meteorological buoy on the Banks. BTW, I have also been sailing single-handed in snow. Brrrrr! The most horrible wet and cold moment in my life! Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:15 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > I guess they were just talking about grading your proposed runway ? That's correct. > How smooth or rough is your field now ? With the tundra tires on my kitfox now, I coul'd probably use it as is but I imagine that it would wear the airplane after a while and wouldn't be much fun. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57322#57322 ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:21 PM PST US From: Forfun3@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? Model 5 Vixen, lycoming 235, trigear Ralph Boling Kirksville, MO, KIRK ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:40 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" If the field is usuable now I would do as little as possible but remove rocks and fill in the holes if not alot. If too many possbily follow Deke's reco and work it up. If it got solid ground cover you wil have to disc it and cultivate and harrow at least. You might have to plough it first depending on how the disc works. The more you work it , the more rocks you will be picking over the next year or two. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need help turning a rough field into a nice grass strip > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > >> I guess they were just talking about grading your proposed runway ? > > > That's correct. > > >> How smooth or rough is your field now ? > > > With the tundra tires on my kitfox now, I coul'd probably use it as is but > I imagine that it would wear the airplane after a while and wouldn't be > much fun. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57322#57322 > > > ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:37 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? From: "Ben-PA" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" Michel, I think you need to add the certified engines also. Thanks for the polls. Ben Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57328#57328 ________________________________ Message 72 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:23 PM PST US From: "Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" Gary Algate Model 4 Taildragger Jabiru 2200 ________________________________ Message 73 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:37 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Aug 25, 2006, at 9:28 PM, Ben-PA wrote: > Michel, I think you need to add the certified engines also. Thanks for > the polls. Yes and I forgot the Kitfox Lite too. Unfortunatey, while I can now edit the text, I can't edit the poll. Maybe the administrator can. Don Pearsall, can do, please? Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 74 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:28 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? From: "Lyle Persels" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lyle Persels" Model IV Rotax 912UL Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57337#57337 ________________________________ Message 75 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:46 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Jose Toro Kitfox II Taildragger 582 "gray" head Will sign the bill of sale, soon. However, the new owner already started a complete restoration, and will keep the same configuration. Will certainly miss it! --- Lyle Persels wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lyle Persels" > > > Model IV > Rotax 912UL > Tailwheel > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57337#57337 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 76 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:00 PM PST US From: "Barry" Subject: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barry" Kitfox Model IV 912UL 80 hp Tri-Gear Conversion from TW this winter N20577 Lake Ossipee, NH -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" Please, select which Kitfox model you have, which engine and if a tri-gear or tail-dragger. Thank you, Michel -------- Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57305#57305 ________________________________ Message 77 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:52 PM PST US From: "Nelson Goguen" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Nelson Goguen" Series 5 vixen 912S nose wheel N. Central Massachusetts ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:19 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" > > Here, we are listing the engines commonly used on Kitfoxes. Please select > your engine. Thanks, > > Michel > > -------- > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57308#57308 > > > ________________________________ Message 78 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:49 PM PST US From: "QSS" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "QSS" Graeme Toft (Australia) Model 1V 1200, tail dragger with NSI subaru Regards Graeme ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave G." Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 3:28 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." > > >> On Aug 25, 2006, at 5:08 PM, MA Stanard wrote: >>> i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently >>> flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. >> > > I'm guessing none have nose and tail wheels, most people will manage to > choose one or the other. I have seen a picture of one with floats and a > tail wheel. > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 79 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:57 PM PST US From: "john perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: John Perry kitfox 2 N718PD 582 / c box 2:62-1 gsc/ivo in flight taildragger soon to be on floats 38 years young and gaining ----- Original Message ----- From: MA Stanard To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. thanks, mas ________________________________ Message 80 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:09 PM PST US From: "Eric" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Eric" Scott, what is this Xtra Kit and where do I get one? Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Patterson" Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:48 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott Patterson > > Kitfox IV. 912UL w/ Xtra Kit (10.5:1 compression ratio/93 HP). Nosewheel. > > Scott Patterson > > > ________________________________ Message 81 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:14 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: (off topic) The experience of sailing From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" > .. T ... Th ... The Perfect Storm, Richard? ? ? Right Michel, it was late October. I arrived at my destination in November heading out again after things warmed up a bit. Yes, I've seen the movie. I didn't hear of or connect 'my' weather until much later in reading about the weather that fed the 'Perfect Storm'. I was clearly on the fringe. A couple other sailing stories your message brings to mind... The sailboat near Bermuda you mention, reminds me of a delivery an old(long ago, not age) girlfriend made. Male skipper and two female crew. They were south of Bermuda - weather came up. I knew only one on board. I was told that the skipper was concerned, but maybe inexperienced, didn't manage the boat too well and demanded the crew stay below with him. I didn't know the boat, and for many other response can't comment on that approach other than things didn't work out all that well. They rolled and then pitch-poled, lost part of their rig and waterlogged the motor. They were eventually able to get a tow to the Carolinas. Another friend was part of a delivery crew on a sailboat owned by well known American newscaster 'Walter Cronkite'. This boat ran into bad weather north of Bermuda, rolled, and lost their deck stepped rig. Walter was able to initiate a rescue and tow. To a comment you made a while back about 'staying with the ship' I agree completely. I once salvaged a 60 foot steel hull sailboat that had been abandoned by it's owner 3 weeks prior. We're still at sea... Sorry for this long message.. but ..... memories surface and connections are made. Someone may ask if a load of ping-pong balls would have boosted the confidence of the owner. Nope, I don't think so. Beyond containment of the balls, it would be pretty tough to add enough buoyancy to float a displacement hull with tons of lead for a keel. This particular owner should not have attempted the trip without experienced help. Sadly it's not uncommon for boaters to head out.... a good radio is their number one, and often only safety device. This guy (the equivalent of a 2 hour pilot, fired a hired skipper in Nassau, Bahamas. He managed to clear the Bahamas on his way to the USVI, but ... one thing led to another and he 'used his emergency device (radio) to call a passing freighter to request assistance. ... This is a true story and could be a movie :), he dropped his sails, was unable to start his engine... the tow boats drifted together - he was dismasted. (main mast stood to the lower spreaders, deck stepped mizzen, gone.) Now on to insurance topic. [this could/would NEVER happened to a pilot] - He boarded the freighter, called his insurance carrier Lloyds' of London for hours... They finally told him to, or he heard, he was to stay on the freighter and leave his boat behind. (3 weeks later, after hearing about this incident and hoping a pilot friend would come along, (yes an airplane pilot) having gotten positions from passing freighters, we banded resources together and - got lucky... found her rolling along east of the northern Bahamas. - I've got to stop this story.... it's not over but would be too long. I learned to fly a couple years after this. Anyway... what topic are we on? Oh, the sea. A variation of ping-pong balls - I've heard of a concept where an inflatable tube is installed inside the hull below the deck, which could be inflated with hope of keeping the boat at the surface of the sea, but only an option for a very light hull. (would work for a plane if you could manage to keep from popping the air chamber along with keeping the weight down. Back to the sea. 99.9% of the time the sea is a wondrous place. Thankfully only about .1% of the time.... other words would be used to describe it. Smooth sailing / safe flying Richard Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57366#57366 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/perfectstorm_617.gif ________________________________ Message 82 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:20 PM PST US From: "neflyer48" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 3 912UL Taildragger ----- Original Message ----- From: MA Stanard To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. thanks, mas ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 08/24/2006 ________________________________ Message 83 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:20 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Series 5. Subaru EA81 Turbo EFI Tail Dragger From: "MA Stanard" Subject: Kitfox-List: i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. thanks, mas _________________________________________________________________ Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment ________________________________ Message 84 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:03 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model II - KFM 112 tail dragger Dee ________________________________ Message 85 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:28 PM PST US From: "eccles" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "eccles" Steve Eccles Model V Tail dragger Continental 0-200 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Algate Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:41 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" Gary Algate Model 4 Taildragger Jabiru 2200 ________________________________ Message 86 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:07 PM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" Roger McConnell Model 7 on trigear with Rotax 912uls GSC prop. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57337#57337 ________________________________ Message 87 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:52 PM PST US From: "Steve Wilson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? Model I, 912A (Certified Aircraft Engine) Tailwheel being converted to nose wheel. Steve Wilson ----- Original Message ----- From: Forfun3@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? Model 5 Vixen, lycoming 235, trigear Ralph Boling Kirksville, MO, KIRK ________________________________ Message 88 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:55 PM PST US From: "Rexster" Subject: Kitfox-List: 912ULModel 3Tail draggerRex in Michigan 
912UL
Model 3
Tail dragger
Rex in Michigan
________________________________ Message 89 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:43 PM PST US From: Fred Shiple Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? Series 6 912S tail-dragger (floats summer) Fred Shiple ________________________________ Message 90 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:41 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Kitfox-List: Type of Aircraft Model II 582 Gray head taildragger Glenn Horne Suffolk, VA ________________________________ Message 91 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:28 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Kitfox-List: Type of Aircraft Classic IV w/ 582 Gray Head. Tail Dragger Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 92 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:20 PM PST US From: morid@northland.lib.mi.us Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grass strips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: morid@northland.lib.mi.us Hi Lynn. I'm not home right now, but my two strips are 1600 and 1220, intersecting with the windsock at the vertex. The 1600 is east/west with no obstacles and the 1220 is north/south with obstacles both ends. The 1220 is a bit of a challenge, especially dropping down over the wires landing to the north. I generally use it for takeoff if winds are calm and generally use the long one for landing. Then again, it all depends on the wind. I'll send a photo when I get home on Sunday or Monday. Deke > > Speaking of grass strips, Deke, what're the dimensions for yours and > the headings? Easier to get in and out than Howland? > > Lynn > do not archive > On Friday, August 25, 2006, at 07:51 AM, Fox5flyer wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > > > Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more > > forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than > > paved > > strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even > > better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people > > who > > have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up > > here > > in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds > > me of > > the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control. > > Deke > > S5 TD > > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" > >> > >> I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are > > done. > >> Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a > >> grass > >> strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure > > that > >> everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a > >> former > >> Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world > >> > >> > >> --Original Message----- > >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger > > McConnell > >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM > >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a > >> taildragger > >> dangerous > >> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" > >> > >> > >> Mike, > >> Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete. > >> Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or > >> made > > the > >> push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very > >> much, > > just > >> not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I > > haven't > >> gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety > >> conscious. > >> > >> Roger Mac > >> S7/912s (trigear) > >> DO NOT ARCHIVE > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > >> kitfoxmike > >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:04 PM > >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger > >> dangerous > >> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" > >> > >> I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us actually land in a > > rough > >> off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. Off field, or the > > boonees > >> landing is very risky and I concider most to be extrem flying. Am I > >> the > >> only one that takes safety seriously and determines yes or no to a > >> landing > >> site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the engine quites. I > >> say, > >> that's not a normal. > >> > >> My definition of extrem is daredevil. > >> > >> -------- > >> kitfoxmike > >> kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster > >> http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike > >> rv7 wingkit > >> reserved 287RV > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ________________________________ Message 93 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:13 PM PST US From: "Eric" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Type of Aircraft Mod. IV Speedster 912UL, tail dragger being converted to nose dragger Eric ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Smythe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:05 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Type of Aircraft Classic IV w/ 582 Gray Head. Tail Dragger Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 94 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:39 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Poll: Which plane, engine and gear configuration, please? From: "Clem Nichols" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" Clem Nichols Model IV 1200 NSI Subaru EA81 Taildragger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57409#57409 ________________________________ Message 95 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:56 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Weight From: David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: David Estapa I recently had my 5 signed off. I did my weight and balance using a set of scales and came up with a total weight of 868 lbs. That is what is listed on my weight & balance (which the DAR took a copy)and also on the data plate. I later found out there was reason to suspect the scales. Last night weighed the airplane on a set of calibrated scales and came up with 833 lbs. My question is there anything I need to do other than carry the revised W&B in the airplane. What about the data plate? David Estapa Woodstock, GA S5TD N97DE ________________________________ Message 96 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:21 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Fw: Kitfox-List: Type of Aircraft From:Ron Liebmann Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:29 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Type of Aircraft Model II 582 Gray head taildragger Ron Liebmann Near Chicago ________________________________ Message 97 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:55 PM PST US From: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grass strips --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" Series 7, under construction, 912S, tailwheel Ken Jones - South Central PA ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:11 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grass strips > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: morid@northland.lib.mi.us > > Hi Lynn. I'm not home right now, but my two strips are 1600 and 1220, > intersecting with the windsock at the vertex. The 1600 is east/west with > no > obstacles and the 1220 is north/south with obstacles both ends. The 1220 > is a > bit of a challenge, especially dropping down over the wires landing to the > north. I generally use it for takeoff if winds are calm and generally use > the > long one for landing. Then again, it all depends on the wind. > I'll send a photo when I get home on Sunday or Monday. > Deke > >> >> Speaking of grass strips, Deke, what're the dimensions for yours and >> the headings? Easier to get in and out than Howland? >> >> Lynn >> do not archive >> On Friday, August 25, 2006, at 07:51 AM, Fox5flyer wrote: >> >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" >> > >> > >> > Good post Kirk. In my opinion, grass strips are much easier, more >> > forgiving, safer, and less apt to cause problems in crosswinds than >> > paved >> > strips, especially with tail draggers. If the grass is wet it's even >> > better. Nothing daredevil about it. Yet, I've known several people >> > who >> > have never landed on one because of hangar stories they've heard. Up >> > here >> > in northern Michigan, that eliminates a lot of places to go. Reminds >> > me of >> > the reasons some folks who won't use air traffic control. >> > Deke >> > S5 TD >> > >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" >> >> >> >> I have not landed the fox on grass yet but will as soon as the 40 are >> > done. >> >> Short strips are no place for test flights but I don't thank that a >> >> grass >> >> strip is unsafe and would almost argue the other way. I'm pretty sure >> > that >> >> everyone on the list would consider me safety consensus as I am a >> >> former >> >> Safety analyst for a major airline, And now in the insurance world >> >> >> >> >> >> --Original Message----- >> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger >> > McConnell >> >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:21 PM >> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a >> >> taildragger >> >> dangerous >> >> >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike, >> >> Count me as one that lands 100% on asphalt or better still concrete. >> >> Sense I'm still flying the 40 hours off my plane; I haven't had or >> >> made >> > the >> >> push to try grass yet. I have landed on grass and enjoyed it very >> >> much, >> > just >> >> not in the Kitfox. I will some day but sense I'm a "lazy" pilot:) I >> > haven't >> >> gotten around to it yet. By the way you might consider me, too safety >> >> conscious. >> >> >> >> Roger Mac >> >> S7/912s (trigear) >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> >> kitfoxmike >> >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:04 PM >> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is a taildragger dangerousIs a taildragger >> >> dangerous >> >> >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" >> >> >> >> I think we need to have a poll as to how many of us actually land in a >> > rough >> >> off field. I don't. Currently 100% is ashphalt. Off field, or the >> > boonees >> >> landing is very risky and I concider most to be extrem flying. Am I >> >> the >> >> only one that takes safety seriously and determines yes or no to a >> >> landing >> >> site. Sure some of us are thinking, what if the engine quites. I >> >> say, >> >> that's not a normal. >> >> >> >> My definition of extrem is daredevil. >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> kitfoxmike >> >> kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster >> >> http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike >> >> rv7 wingkit >> >> reserved 287RV >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57025#57025 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > ________________________________ Message 98 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:08 PM PST US From: "kirkhull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Classic VI with a stratus Subaru and a tail wheel _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john perry Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: John Perry kitfox 2 N718PD 582 / c box 2:62-1 gsc/ivo in flight taildragger soon to be on floats 38 years young and gaining ----- Original Message ----- From: MA Stanard Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: i would appreciate a poll of who has what engines that are currently flying and how many actually have nose and tail wheels. thanks, mas ________________________________ Message 99 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:30 PM PST US From: "kirkhull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Type of Aircraft How about adding your location as well? Kirk with a classic VI powered by a stratus Subaru and located in Kansas city Missouri / 0N0 _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:05 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Type of Aircraft Classic IV w/ 582 Gray Head. Tail Dragger Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 100 ___________________________________ Time: 08:11:11 PM PST US From: "kirkhull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Mechanic near 35A? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" Maintenance on a homebuilt can only be done by an A&P or a person holding a repairmans cert for that plane. Aka the builder. Not just anybody can do the maintenance -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Mechanic near 35A? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Luis: Another source for this information is the EAA web site, www.eaa.org. I know this specific question is answered in that site. Jose --- wingnut wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > > > > Therefore, any maintenance on an experimental > > airplane can be performed virtually by anyone > regardless of credentials. > > > > > Hmm. That's something to chew on. I guess I'll wait > until I can talk to a loca A&P. Thanks for the heads > up. > > -Luis > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57228#57228 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 101 ___________________________________ Time: 08:18:54 PM PST US From: Malcolmbru@AOL.COM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fwd: malcolm Falcom ins web site ----=_NextPart_000_06EB_01C6C820.E92013A0-- ________________________________ Message 102 ___________________________________ Time: 09:07:08 PM PST US From: "Shane Sather" Subject: Kitfox-List: poll --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Sather" Shane Sather Light squared 912s full lotus floats Nunavut, Canada ________________________________ Message 103 ___________________________________ Time: 09:31:09 PM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: poll --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" Shane Are you still up at CamBay on Victoria Island?? I'll be up there on Wed night next week. Ted Edmonton DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shane Sather Sent: August 25, 2006 10:06 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: poll --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Sather" Shane Sather Light squared 912s full lotus floats Nunavut, Canada ________________________________ Message 104 ___________________________________ Time: 10:04:54 PM PST US From: "QSS" Subject: Kitfox-List: Ignition system HI Guys, I seem to have a real problem with the ignition CDI's on my NSI. I have absolutely no spark at all and suspect that both black boxes have finally succumbed to the salt water they were sitting in for several hours when we had our unscheduled swim at Christmas time.. Has anyone ever changed these CDI ignition systems to a conventional distributor and coil?. I have heard that the traditional Subaru distributor can be retro fitted with dual points. If this is correct it might be a sensible alternative for me to consider due to the NSI replacement CDI's being no longer available. My engine is the standard NSI EA 81 non turbo and there is still provision on the engine to fit a distributor. Any comments would be appreciated as I don't want to be out of the air for another 6 months. Im just starting to have fun again. Thanks guys. Regards Graeme ________________________________ Message 105 ___________________________________ Time: 10:04:59 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand - Is it safe to come out now? From: "Colin Durey" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" Hi guys, I'm the one who asked what I thought was a simple question " Does anyone know of any Fitfoxes flying in Thailand?" I'm absolutley gobsmacked at the exchanges that have gone on over this, and hope that its all died down now. However, my original question still stands, as I've only seen one message (an exchange between two other list members)that gives any indication as whether there is or not. So, if anyone does know, could they please tell me? Regards Colin Durey ________________________________ Message 106 ___________________________________ Time: 11:39:12 PM PST US From: "QSS" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand - Is it safe to come out now? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "QSS" Hi Colin, you cant go to Thailand, youv'e got a plane to build by the end of September. so you can come on our run to Cape York. When I was their last we noticed the same strip that some one else mentioned. It is on the Bangkok side of Pattaya. If you do a search on the Pacific Flyer web site I think they ran an article some time back on ultraligths in that area. Might turn up something. Also I need a VSI. Are you in business yet??. Cheers Graeme ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Durey" Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox in Thailand - Is it safe to come out now? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Colin Durey" > > Hi guys, > > I'm the one who asked what I thought was a simple question " Does anyone > know of any Fitfoxes flying in Thailand?" > > I'm absolutley gobsmacked at the exchanges that have gone on over this, > and hope that its all died down now. However, my original question still > stands, as I've only seen one message (an exchange between two other list > members)that gives any indication as whether there is or not. So, if > anyone does know, could they please tell me? > > > Regards > > Colin Durey > > > -- > >