---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/06/06: 51 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:37 AM - Re: Wings Level ? (Ceashman@AOL.COM) 2. 04:24 AM - Re: Type of Aircraft (n61kf) 3. 04:40 AM - Kitfox Totals (Howard) 4. 04:45 AM - Re: Wings Level ? (Bob Unternaehrer) 5. 04:48 AM - Re: Name Check - Airplane type (W Duke) 6. 05:35 AM - Re: Aircraft Totals (Algate) 7. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: Type of AircraftRe: Type of Aircraft (Harper L. Jacoby) 8. 06:27 AM - Re: Wings Level ? (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 9. 06:51 AM - Kitfox specs for Lowell's count (Gary Glasgow) 10. 07:03 AM - Re: Wings Level ? (Floran Higgins) 11. 07:04 AM - Re: Kitfox Totals (Dave) 12. 07:12 AM - Fw: Re: Name Check - Airplane type (Donald STEVENSON) 13. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: Type of AircraftRe: Type of Aircraft (Marwynne Kuhn) 14. 07:46 AM - Re: Kitfox Totals (Dave G.) 15. 08:28 AM - Re: Kitfox Totals (Dave) 16. 08:42 AM - Re: Wings Level ? (kitfoxmike) 17. 09:36 AM - Kitfox totals (Fox5flyer) 18. 10:35 AM - Re: Kitfox totals (Don Smythe) 19. 10:51 AM - Re: Kitfox totals (Dave) 20. 11:10 AM - Re: Type of Aircraft (Torgeir Mortensen) 21. 12:16 PM - Re: Kitfox Totals (Gary Olson) 22. 12:48 PM - Re: Kitfox specs for Lowell's count (mscotter@comcast.net) 23. 01:08 PM - LED Nav lights?? (darinh) 24. 01:33 PM - Re: Kitfox Totals (Michel Verheughe) 25. 02:37 PM - Re: Kitfox Totals (Gary Olson) 26. 03:03 PM - Re: Wings Level ? (Lowell Fitt) 27. 03:30 PM - New spars, and different. (Dave G.) 28. 03:46 PM - Re: Kitfox Totals (Lowell Fitt) 29. 03:48 PM - Re: Wings Level ? (Lowell Fitt) 30. 03:49 PM - wrong photo. (Dave G.) 31. 04:05 PM - Re: LED Nav lights?? (cjswa) 32. 04:09 PM - Re: Wings Level ? (Lowell Fitt) 33. 04:28 PM - Re: LED Nav lights?? (Bradley M Webb) 34. 04:38 PM - Re: Wings Level ? (Bradley M Webb) 35. 04:39 PM - Re: Kitfox totals (Lowell Fitt) 36. 05:02 PM - Re: New spars, and different. (Lowell Fitt) 37. 05:23 PM - Re: Instructions for Cargo Bay Kit - Series 5 (Flybradair@cs.com) 38. 05:51 PM - Re: Instructions for Cargo Bay Kit - Series 5 (Dan Billingsley) 39. 06:01 PM - Re: wrong photo. (Guy Buchanan) 40. 06:01 PM - Re: New spars, and different. (Guy Buchanan) 41. 06:10 PM - Re: LED Nav lights?? (darinh) 42. 06:13 PM - Re: LED Nav lights?? (darinh) 43. 06:47 PM - Re: LED Nav lights?? (Bill Hammond) 44. 06:48 PM - Re: Kitfox Totals (Barry West) 45. 08:56 PM - Re: LED Nav lights?? (Noel Loveys) 46. 09:02 PM - Re: Wings Level ? (Lowell Fitt) 47. 09:37 PM - Re: wrong photo. (kurt schrader) 48. 09:39 PM - Re: New spars, and different. (kurt schrader) 49. 09:46 PM - So Far (Lowell Fitt) 50. 10:23 PM - Re: Kitfox specs for Lowell's count (Joel Mapes) 51. 11:16 PM - AW: Kitfox Totals (Werner Keiper) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:13 AM PST US From: Ceashman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" --I am strongly motivated to do something with the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. Hi Lowell. When climbing, I use a little right rudder and when descending I use left. When level and cruise in still air I use no rudder. But that again is in still air, you know, those times when you are at peace with your Kitfox, life and the whole world and you just want to fly for ever. But if you constantly need to keep a toe on the rudder pedal, it could be because of slight rudder warping while shrinking the covering (This was probably the first item we all cover, to gain experience with the covering process) You will see sometimes on factory produced airplanes a small tab of aluminum attached to the rudder for ground adjustable trimming purposes, so you can say this is the "poor mans trim tab". So even the professional manufacturers require the need for the customers self aligning trim tab. I guess we do not notice the problem with the elevator, we expect to trim for level flight. So why can't we trim for straight line flight, = straight and level! Unfortunately, while welding all the tubes together. Skystar did not weld a small plate to the rear rudder tube so that we could attach a small piece of aluminum on the outside of the fabric for trimming purposes. My Skybolt plans have this little weldment with the rivet on threads that can be used later for attaching the tab. So' Either I am losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge trying to fly with the wings level. I really don't think you are losing it as a pilot, it looks like a trim tab is required. OR JUST LOSING IT! Lowell, only close friends and family could answer that one :) Thanks for keeping tabs [Ha-Ha]. on the "type of aircraft" index. Cheers. Eric. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:46 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Type of Aircraft From: "n61kf" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "n61kf" 4-1200 under const. no engine td 4-1200 912uls td Keith Schneider Waynesville Oh. -------- Keith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59886#59886 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:22 AM PST US From: "Howard" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals Check this site for FAA totalls.... http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftinqSQL.asp?striptxt=kitfox& mfrtxt=&modeltxt=kitfox&cmndfind.x=12&cmndfind.y=3 Howard ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:18 AM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" You MAY find that different motor torque is the culprit. You can either use rudder trim or shim for motor offset and probably help. Bob UP. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:51 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > I tend to agree with Randy on this one. On a calm gradual descent I can fly > hands off for long periods. I mention this, because it gives me reason to > believe my wings are trimmed correctly, but at cruise, I need a tad of right > rudder to maintain heading. While coming home from our last cross country, > We flew two legs of about 3 hours each and during that time, I worked on my > coodinated flight with a little right rudder and trying to keep the ball > centered and watching the wingtips relative to the horizon. Either I am > losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge trying > to fly with the wings level. I am strongly motivated to do something with > the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. > > When we fly the highways or the rivers, no problemo, as we are in turns > almost continuously, but a GPS heading for hours at a time - I need some > work. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:01 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > > > > Rex, > > > > I am still skeptical. When on the ground, engine off - just sitting > > there - > > have a friend lift one wing tip 3.5 inches. This is easy to do. Note the > > difference. Now consider the same difference in the air with very light > > turbulence. > > > > > > > > Your second correction: I stand corrected. What I should have said is > > how > > coordinated I am flying. But where it applies, straight line cruise, they > > are the same thing. > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > . > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw > > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:08 AM > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > > > > > > > > Are there really Fox drivers out there that are > > so good that they can tell if one wing tip is 7" higher than the other? > > With the plane on a level surface (hangar floor?) this is easy too > > determine, but try it out on a sorta level field. You need a good level > > to > > tell. > > > > > > > > I would think one can easilly detect 7'' out of level in flight by looking > > out under one wing then the other to the horizon. My instructor taught me > > this way back. > > > > When I fly, I just use the ball for an immediate indication of how level I > > have the wings. > > > > > > > > The ball can be centred without being level in flight. It may act as a > > level > > on the groung and stationary. Take for example if you are making a > > co-ordinated turn. The ball is in the centre but the wings aren't level. > > > > > > Rex. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:18 AM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Name Check - Airplane type Duke, Maxwell S6/TD/Continental IO240 Lowell Fitt wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" check below to see if you are on the list. I have had a couple of senior moments and am almost positive, I lost another R name somewhere. Also I don't have last names for the last three entries. Lowell Algate Gary IV-1200 Ashman Eric CIV Baltrusaitis Ben 5 Anderson John 5 Bazzill Clint IV-1200S Begnaud Cliff 5 Boling Ralph 5 vixen Cannon Mike II Clements Travis IV-1200 Cozik Kevin 6 Cravener Don IV-1200 Crutchlow Mike II D'Archangel Dick C-IV Daughenbaugh Randy 5 Doud Herbert IV-1200 Eccles Steve 5 Estapa David 5 Fabian Jay IV-1200 Fitt Lowell IV-1200 Fitzgerald Mo 7A Gerace Greg II Goguen Nelson 5 Vixen Hastedt Margaret CIV Hefferen Rex III Higgins Florin IV-1200S Holliday Bob 5 Horne Glenn II Hull Kirk CIV Huston Barry IV-1200 Jones Kenneth 7 Kerr John CIV Klerks Jim IV-1050 Liebmann Ron II Lina Bruce V Logan Mike 5 Loveys Noel III-A Magdic Steve III Martin Brad 5 Matteson Lynn McConnell Roger 7 Meneszes Marco II Morisse Deke 5 Nichols Clem IV-1200 Olsen Gary 7 Osborn Tom III IV Wing Parker Jud 5 Patterson Scott IV-1200 Perry John II Persels Lyle IV-1200 Puls Jeff CIV-1200 Purdy Dwight II Rueb Duane 5 Sather Shane Lt SQ Schieffer Cjuck IV-1200 Schrader Kurt Shaw Rex IV-1200 Shiple Fred 6 Smythe Don IV-1200 Thiessen Mic IV-1200S Toft Graeme IV-1200 Toro Jose II Vader Tim CIV-1200 Verheughe Michel III Wahlquist Dave III Wehner Clem IV-1050 Wilson Steve II Wilyard Bill CIV-1200 Young Dee II Mike IV-1200 Eric IV-1200S David III Maxwell Duke S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:52 AM PST US From: "Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Totals Lowell Here's one more - a friend of mine just purchased a Model 4 in Sudbury,Ontario Brian Morisette Model 4 Taildragger 582 Blue Head Regards Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab2200 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:54 AM PST US From: "Harper L. Jacoby" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Type of AircraftRe: Type of Aircraft Lowell, Please add my information: Harper L. (Jake) Jacoby Castroville, TX (T89) Kitfox Model II (N7183H) Rotax 582 (Model 90) GSC Prop 3 Blade Tailwheel Thanks, Jake ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:57 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? Several years ago I added a simple metal trim tab to my rudder (Ground adjustable bend). It eliminated the stiff quadracep following long cross countries. I attached it at the point of tightest curve on the bottom for leverage. Three pop rivets do the trick. I have it set up for about 100 mph indicated. Your chosen speed may vary. The total time invested, including drying time was less than an hour. It was a worthwhile addition. John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Lowell Fitt" > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > I tend to agree with Randy on this one. On a calm gradual descent I can fly > hands off for long periods. I mention this, because it gives me reason to > believe my wings are trimmed correctly, but at cruise, I need a tad of right > rudder to maintain heading. While coming home from our last cross country, > We flew two legs of about 3 hours each and during that time, I worked on my > coodinated flight with a little right rudder and trying to keep the ball > centered and watching the wingtips relative to the horizon. Either I am > losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge trying > to fly with the wings level. I am strongly motivated to do something with > the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. > > When we fly the highways or the rivers, no problemo, as we are in turns > almost continuously, but a GPS heading for hours at a time - I need some > work. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:01 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > > > > Rex, > > > > I am still skeptical. When on the ground, engine off - just sitting > > there - > > have a friend lift one wing tip 3.5 inches. This is easy to do. Note the > > difference. Now consider the same difference in the air with very light > > turbulence. > > > > > > > > Your second correction: I stand corrected. What I should have said is > > how > > coordinated I am flying. But where it applies, straight line cruise, they > > are the same thing. > > > > > > > > Randy > > > > . > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw > > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:08 AM > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > > > > > > > > Are there really Fox drivers out there that are > > so good that they can tell if one wing tip is 7" higher than the other? > > With the plane on a level surface (hangar floor?) this is easy too > > determine, but try it out on a sorta level field. You need a good level > > to > > tell. > > > > > > > > I would think one can easilly detect 7'' out of level in flight by looking > > out under one wing then the other to the horizon. My instructor taught me > > this way back. > > > > When I fly, I just use the ball for an immediate indication of how level I > > have the wings. > > > > > > > > The ball can be centred without being level in flight. It may act as a > > level > > on the groung and stationary. Take for example if you are making a > > co-ordinated turn. The ball is in the centre but the wings aren't level. > > > > > > Rex. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Several years ago I added a simple metal trim tab to my rudder (Ground adjustable bend).  It eliminated the stiff quadracep following long cross countries. I attached it at the point of tightest curve on the bottom for leverage. Three pop rivets do the trick.  I have it set up for about 100 mph indicated.  Your chosen speed may vary. The total time invested, including drying time was less than an hour.
 
It was a worthwhile addition.
 
John Kerr
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>

> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>
> I tend to agree with Randy on this one. On a calm gradual descent I can fly
> hands off for long periods. I mention this, because it gives me reason to
> believe my wings are trimmed correctly, but at cruise, I need a tad of right
> rudder to maintain heading. While coming home from our last cross country,
> We flew two legs of about 3 hours each and during that time, I worked on my
> coodinated flight with a little right rudder and trying to keep the ball
> centered and watching the wingtips relative to the horizon. Either I am
> losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge trying
> to fly with the wings level . I am strongly motivated to do something with
> the rudder trim and see if that is my problem.
>
> When we fly the highways or the rivers, no problemo, as we are in turns
> almost continuously, but a GPS heading for hours at a time - I need some
> work.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:01 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ?
>
>
> > Rex,
> >
> > I am still skeptical. When on the ground, engine off - just sitting
> > there -
> > have a friend lift one wing tip 3.5 inches. This is easy to do. Note the
> > difference. Now consider the same difference in the air with very light
> > turbulence.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your second correction: I stand cor rected . What I should have said is
> > how
> > coordinated I am flying. But where it applies, straight line cruise, they
> > are the same thing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Randy
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:08 AM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Are there really Fox drivers out there that are
> > so good that they can tell if one wing tip is 7" higher than the other?
> > With the plane on a level surface (hangar floor?) this is easy too
> > determine, but try it out on a sorta level field. You need a good level > Use th nics.c
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:13 AM PST US From: "Gary Glasgow" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox specs for Lowell's count Gary Glasgow Kitfox - I I I 582 Shepherd Montana ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:53 AM PST US From: "Floran Higgins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? On my speedster the tailwheel is set loose enough that if I am out of trim in cruise I can give the rudder petal a quick push and cock the tailwheel so that it acts as a trim. As I use right rudder pedal on take of it usually means that I have to kick the left rudder to trim the airplane when I level off. I used to fly a Cessna 180 that I had to do the same thing. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ceashman@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:36 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" --I am strongly motivated to do something with the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. Hi Lowell. When climbing, I use a little right rudder and when descending I use left. When level and cruise in still air I use no rudder. But that again is in still air, you know, those times when you are at peace with your Kitfox, life and the whole world and you just want to fly for ever. But if you constantly need to keep a toe on the rudder pedal, it could be because of slight rudder warping while shrinking the covering (This was probably the first item we all cover, to gain experience with the covering process) You will see sometimes on factory produced airplanes a small tab of aluminum attached to the rudder for ground adjustable trimming purposes, so you can say this is the "poor mans trim tab". So even the professional manufacturers require the need for the customers self aligning trim tab. I guess we do not notice the problem with the elevator, we expect to trim for level flight. So why can't we trim for straight line flight, = straight and level! Unfortunately, while welding all the tubes together. Skystar did not weld a small plate to the rear rudder tube so that we could attach a small piece of aluminum on the outside of the fabric for trimming purposes. My Skybolt plans have this little weldment with the rivet on threads that can be used later for attaching the tab. So' Either I am losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge trying to fly with the wings level. I really don't think you are losing it as a pilot, it looks like a trim tab is required. OR JUST LOSING IT! Lowell, only close friends and family could answer that one :) Thanks for keeping tabs [Ha-Ha]. on the "type of aircraft" index. Cheers. Eric. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:43 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals FAA usa Model Name Entered : KITFOX Number of Records: 1428 (Page 1 of 29) and in Canada there are under Kitfox 102 matches found (As of April 5, 2006, all searches are limited to 500 records) So that means there are alot of Kitfoxes still not registered ? I thought there was 4 thousnd or more actually sold as kits ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:39 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals Check this site for FAA totalls.... http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftinqSQL.asp?striptxt=kitfox& mfrtxt=&modeltxt=kitfox&cmndfind.x=12&cmndfind.y=3 Howard ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:28 AM PST US From: Donald STEVENSON Subject: Fwd: Re: Kitfox-List: Name Check - Airplane type --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Donald STEVENSON --- Donald STEVENSON wrote: > Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:10:18 -0400 (EDT) > From: Donald STEVENSON > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Name Check - Airplane type > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Lowell, I did'n see your original post for this > list, > but it looks to me like your making a list of k/f > owners, if so please add me: > Don Stevenson, Caledon, Ontario, Canada > M4/1200 Speedster T/W 912UL- under construction. > > --- Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > > > > > check below to see if you are on the list. I have > > had a couple of senior > > moments and am almost positive, I lost another R > > name somewhere. Also I > > don't have last names for the last three entries. > > > > Lowell > > > > Algate > > Gary > > IV-1200 > > > > Ashman > > Eric > > CIV > > > > Baltrusaitis > > Ben > > 5 > > > > Anderson > > John > > 5 > > > > Bazzill > > Clint > > IV-1200S > > > > Begnaud > > Cliff > > 5 > > > > Boling > > Ralph > > 5 vixen > > > > Cannon > > Mike > > II > > > > Clements > > Travis > > IV-1200 > > > > Cozik > > Kevin > > 6 > > > > Cravener > > Don > > IV-1200 > > > > Crutchlow > > Mike > > II > > > > D'Archangel > > Dick > > C-IV > > > > Daughenbaugh > > Randy > > 5 > > > > Doud > > Herbert > > IV-1200 > > > > Eccles > > Steve > > 5 > > > > Estapa > > David > > 5 > > > > Fabian > > Jay > > IV-1200 > > > > Fitt > > Lowell > > IV-1200 > > > > Fitzgerald > > Mo > > 7A > > > > Gerace > > Greg > > II > > > > Goguen > > Nelson > > 5 Vixen > > > > Hastedt > > Margaret > > CIV > > > > Hefferen > > Rex > > III > > > > Higgins > > Florin > > IV-1200S > > > > Holliday > > Bob > > 5 > > > > Horne > > Glenn > > II > > > > Hull > > Kirk > > CIV > > > > Huston > > Barry > > IV-1200 > > > > Jones > > Kenneth > > 7 > > > > Kerr > > John > > CIV > > > > Klerks > > Jim > > IV-1050 > > > > Liebmann > > Ron > > II > > > > Lina > > Bruce > > V > > > > Logan > > Mike > > 5 > > > > Loveys > > Noel > > III-A > > > > Magdic > > Steve > > III > > > > Martin > > Brad > > 5 > > > > Matteson > > Lynn > > > > > > McConnell > > Roger > > 7 > > > > Meneszes > > Marco > > II > > > > Morisse > > Deke > > 5 > > > > Nichols > > Clem > > IV-1200 > > > > Olsen > > Gary > > 7 > > > > Osborn > > Tom > > III IV Wing > > > > Parker > > Jud > > 5 > > > > Patterson > > Scott > > IV-1200 > > > > Perry > > John > > > === message truncated == > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:57 AM PST US From: "Marwynne Kuhn" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Type of AircraftRe: Type of Aircraft Please add my information also Lowell, Marwynne Kuhn Hilltop Lakes , Texas ()TE4 Kitfox Model IV 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harper L. Jacoby Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:57 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Type of AircraftRe: Type of Aircraft Lowell, Please add my information: Harper L. (Jake) Jacoby Castroville, TX (T89) Kitfox Model II (N7183H) Rotax 582 (Model 90) GSC Prop 3 Blade Tailwheel Thanks, Jake ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:16 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals There are a lot that are registered as Skystar and Denney aircraft, I expect there are many in the US that do not have N numbers and may not appear in the FAA database. may also are in other countries besides Canada and what's it's name. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals FAA usa Model Name Entered : KITFOX Number of Records: 1428 (Page 1 of 29) and in Canada there are under Kitfox 102 matches found (As of April 5, 2006, all searches are limited to 500 records) So that means there are alot of Kitfoxes still not registered ? I thought there was 4 thousnd or more actually sold as kits ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:39 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals Check this site for FAA totalls.... http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftinqSQL.asp?striptxt=kitfox& mfrtxt=&modeltxt=kitfox&cmndfind.x=12&cmndfind.y=3 Howard ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:58 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals I just installed a Brand new 503 dual igntion in a Raven for a good friend of mine who built if from scratch plans. A Raven is basically a Kitfox 1. this one is a 9/10 inside and out and weight about 400 lbs and goes up like hell. ( build them lite to get a faster upward flight) The gentleman that owns it is 84 years old and is just about ready to sell it if anyone is interested . The price will be 20k$ CDN and is located within about 90 miles of Toronto Ontario. I have flown this aircraft many times and it is a very nice Kitfox clone. The builder has built many planes over the last 30 to 40 years and I would consider him to be a true craftsman. His age is starting to slow him down and would like to find a new home for this plane while he can still fly it . He has a grass strip that is 1800 feet long so you can fly right in to see it. I can post a pic if anyone is interested. There was simular Raven to this that was listed lastd year for 25k and with out a new engine and sold fyi. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals There are a lot that are registered as Skystar and Denney aircraft, I expect there are many in the US that do not have N numbers and may not appear in the FAA database. may also are in other countries besides Canada and what's it's name. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals FAA usa Model Name Entered : KITFOX Number of Records: 1428 (Page 1 of 29) and in Canada there are under Kitfox 102 matches found (As of April 5, 2006, all searches are limited to 500 records) So that means there are alot of Kitfoxes still not registered ? I thought there was 4 thousnd or more actually sold as kits ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:39 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals Check this site for FAA totalls.... http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftinqSQL.asp?striptxt=kitfox& mfrtxt=&modeltxt=kitfox&cmndfind.x=12&cmndfind.y=3 Howard ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:06 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wings Level ? From: "kitfoxmike" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" Rex, I'm trying to get the jest of this thread. I think you are just making a comment that the airplane needs constant attention to fly straight. I have to say yes. But then again that's what makes the kitfox or any aircraft like her so fun to fly. It really isn't a long distance flier unless you plan on a long time to get to your destination, sure many have flown from out west to OSH, but for the normal person, that isn't feasable, mainly because of time constraints and it takes plenty of inputs to keep you on track. I love mine if within 50 miles from the airport and I have taken a few trips over 200 miles, but at least one stop in between is usually in line. I never have an issue with holding wings level and on the rudder I usually just rest my right foot on the peddle and that takes care of the drift to the right. I do have dihedral in my wings so that stablizes the plane very nicely. Whenever the sun is out in full I generally have one wing up higher and compensate with the rudder to give a nice sun sheild, doesn't seem to effect airspeed so that's how I do it. When I land I can settle on both wheels at the same time, so I guess I know where wings level are on the plane when flying it. I've been spending most of my time at the airport doing touch and goes. The other day, I was feeling pretty frisky and did about 15 touches in a half hour. There was a training flight in the right pattern and I was in the left, the runway is 9000ft long and the tower kept me in a close in short approach. I actually got 3 touches while the 152 was on final. I was a bit worn after I landed, the fox really takes all your senses to fly like that. I did think it was rather amusing, the instructor that was in the 152 said, wow you did 3 touches in our final approach, all I could say was, Yup. Last night the smoke from our fires was so great I took the wife up for some touches, she made it through 3, I constrained my self and did three in about a half hour. But still managed to do the turn outs at the biggining and end of the runway. We were getting winds from everywhere, variable at about 6. I hit both runways and feel very confident that the fox is very controllable. In fact on my final, a little fast, I wanted to practice my wheel landing, I touched a little fast and the right wheel shuddered a little so I pulled up ever so slightly and waited until I was slower and settled back down, the wife said I went up about 2 inches off the runway, I thought, way cool. >From the sounds of it you just need more time in the fox, before you know it, things will feel second nature. -------- kitfoxmike kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike rv7 wingkit reserved 287RV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59960#59960 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:55 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox totals Competition can be brutal. It's easy for a manufacturer to throw numbers around and not have to be held accountable for them and it seems to be done a lot in the experimental aircraft business. I suspect the actual number is more like 2000-2500 (if you include Denney), but you probably won't find it in writing anywhere from an absolute source. Just my opinion. Deke So that means there are alot of Kitfoxes still not registered ? I thought there was 4 thousnd or more actually sold as kits ? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:07 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox totals The number 4 thousand was kicking around when I got my kit in 1995. Don Smythe Do Not archive >>So that means there are alot of Kitfoxes still not registered ? I thought there was 4 thousnd or more actually sold as kits ? >> ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:55 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox totals well 4 thousand it what i thought Don, I saw Another Email from Deke stating far less. I would say if 1500 approx are shown registered in USA and Canada alone that there mustd be at least 3 times that as alot of Kits never get finished by rule of thumb. That is why you had that garage right ? To start to build then store it there for years :) Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Smythe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox totals The number 4 thousand was kicking around when I got my kit in 1995. Don Smythe Do Not archive >>So that means there are alot of Kitfoxes still not registered ? I thought there was 4 thousnd or more actually sold as kits ? >> ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:05 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Type of Aircraft From: "Torgeir Mortensen" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Torgeir Mortensen" Kitfox model II Tail dragger Rotax 532 dual igntion IVO PROP UL 366Q Torgeir -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:03 PM PST US From: Gary Olson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals Gentlemen, There is also a handful of aircraft listed with "Skystar" as the manufacturer. That is where mine is listed. Just use the search feature on the FAA site. Gary Howard wrote: Check this site for FAA totalls.... http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftinqSQL.asp?striptxt=kitfox&mfrtxt=&modeltxt=kitfox&cmndfind.x=12&cmndfind.y=3 Howard --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:26 PM PST US From: mscotter@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox specs for Lowell's count Mark Scott Model IV, Rotax 618, Ivoprop, Taildragger In Construction Elkton, MD
Mark Scott
Model IV, Rotax 618, Ivoprop, Taildragger
In Construction
Elkton, MD
 
________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:53 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: LED Nav lights?? From: "darinh" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" I am looking at putting LED Navs in on my Series 7 to reduce the amp draw from the alternator. Has anyone used these or know anything about them? I had Whelen strobes and navs on my Model III (912UL) and with the com, transponder, GPS, EIS, stobes, and navs, the 18 amp alternator could not keep up. I would like to install the same instrumentation on my 7 and add landing/taxi lights but unless I can decrease the amp draw from a couple of these, it doesn't look like a viable option. Anyone know of a company that is making the LED navs?...If so, what do you guys (and possibly gals) recommend? Thanks, Darin Hawkes Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60023#60023 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:40 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Sep 6, 2006, at 9:15 PM, Gary Olson wrote: > There is also a handfulof aircraft listed with "Skystar" as the > manufacturer. That is where mine is listed. Just use the search > feature on the FAA site. I understand, Gary, but the original poster came with a question: What kind of engine, on this list, do we fly? Then, if I remember correctly, some else added: And how many, on this list, are taildraggers,? Of course, we could register all Kitfoxes ever built but ... I pity our poor friend Lowell who is writing down the list! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:17 PM PST US From: Gary Olson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals Michel, I clearly understand what the "original" post meant. I was just trying to expand on Howard's post. In no way was this intended add to Lowells already daunting task of compiling his information. It was just something that I thought some of you might find interesting. OK? Michel Verheughe wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Sep 6, 2006, at 9:15 PM, Gary Olson wrote: > There is also a handful of aircraft listed with "Skystar" as the > manufacturer. That is where mine is listed. Just use the search > feature on the FAA site. I understand, Gary, but the original poster came with a question: What kind of engine, on this list, do we fly? Then, if I remember correctly, some else added: And how many, on this list, are taildraggers,? Of course, we could register all Kitfoxes ever built but ... I pity our poor friend Lowell who is writing down the list! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive --------------------------------- Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:21 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" I do have a bit of dihedral. I am goung to ry to do something with the rudder. I am in deep thought about it, trying to avoid the tab, but that eventualy will be the likely solution. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > > At 06:51 PM 9/5/2006, you wrote: >>Either I am >>losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge trying >>to fly with the wings level. I am strongly motivated to do something with >>the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. > > If I recall correctly, your plane doesn't have a lot of dihedral. If you > want to fly hands-off, pump up the dihedral and it will get rock steady. > > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:34 PM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Kitfox-List: New spars, and different. My new spars arrived this morning, and they are much stronger than the old ones. The new ones are marked .065 wall thickness, I guess the old ones were .048. The insert web is also much thicker and the insert is 6" longer. I'm guessing this is all the result of developments that resulted in the heavier later series like the series seven , Vixen and such. The spars are replacing my rear spars, the fronts are undamaged. I expect they will result in a larger safety margin for integrity as I'm told the rear spars bear a larger portion of the load. I had previously noted the new lift struts are beefier than the ones original to my Model IV-1050. So, I've now got a Franken-fox with some stronger newer parts. Does anyone think the mismatch front-to-back would be an issue? I will have symmetrey side to side with most ribs original and original spars on the front. I will be re-using one flaperon and have one from a series six that appears to match the old one. I've attached a photo with the difference in the inserts showing. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:04 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Thanks Howard, I found my listing. I guess everyone is there somewhere. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:39 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals Check this site for FAA totalls.... http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/acftinqSQL.asp?striptxt=kitfox&mfrtxt=&modeltxt=kitfox&cmndfind.x=12&cmndfind.y=3 Howard ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:41 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Interesting thought. I put washers under the engine mount to shim it a bit when building per the post weld distortion. I will check that to see if the locations are likely to give the result I have. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:45 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > > You MAY find that different motor torque is the culprit. You can either > use > rudder trim or shim for motor offset and probably help. Bob UP. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lowell Fitt" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:51 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" >> >> I tend to agree with Randy on this one. On a calm gradual descent I can > fly >> hands off for long periods. I mention this, because it gives me reason >> to >> believe my wings are trimmed correctly, but at cruise, I need a tad of > right >> rudder to maintain heading. While coming home from our last cross > country, >> We flew two legs of about 3 hours each and during that time, I worked on > my >> coodinated flight with a little right rudder and trying to keep the ball >> centered and watching the wingtips relative to the horizon. Either I am >> losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge >> trying >> to fly with the wings level. I am strongly motivated to do something >> with >> the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. >> >> When we fly the highways or the rivers, no problemo, as we are in turns >> almost continuously, but a GPS heading for hours at a time - I need some >> work. >> >> Lowell >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:01 PM >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? >> >> >> > Rex, >> > >> > I am still skeptical. When on the ground, engine off - just sitting >> > there - >> > have a friend lift one wing tip 3.5 inches. This is easy to do. Note > the >> > difference. Now consider the same difference in the air with very >> > light >> > turbulence. >> > >> > >> > >> > Your second correction: I stand corrected. What I should have said is >> > how >> > coordinated I am flying. But where it applies, straight line cruise, > they >> > are the same thing. >> > >> > >> > >> > Randy >> > >> > . >> > >> > >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:08 AM >> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? >> > >> > >> > >> > Are there really Fox drivers out there that are >> > so good that they can tell if one wing tip is 7" higher than the other? >> > With the plane on a level surface (hangar floor?) this is easy too >> > determine, but try it out on a sorta level field. You need a good >> > level >> > to >> > tell. >> > >> > >> > >> > I would think one can easilly detect 7'' out of level in flight by > looking >> > out under one wing then the other to the horizon. My instructor taught > me >> > this way back. >> > >> > When I fly, I just use the ball for an immediate indication of how >> > level > I >> > have the wings. >> > >> > >> > >> > The ball can be centred without being level in flight. It may act as a >> > level >> > on the groung and stationary. Take for example if you are making a >> > co-ordinated turn. The ball is in the centre but the wings aren't >> > level. >> > >> > >> > Rex. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:50 PM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Kitfox-List: wrong photo. Here is a close up of the insert end on. do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:42 PM PST US From: "cjswa" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: LED Nav lights?? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "cjswa" Darin, I bought a set of LED position lights / strobes to reduce the current draw but haven't tried them yet so can't say how they perform. I bought them from Wicks, but I'm not sure if they still carry them. They were made by GS Air, whose website is www.gs-air.com Bill Anderson Model 4-1050 (still under construction) ----- Original Message ----- From: "darinh" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:07 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: LED Nav lights?? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > I am looking at putting LED Navs in on my Series 7 to reduce the amp draw from the alternator. Has anyone used these or know anything about them? I had Whelen strobes and navs on my Model III (912UL) and with the com, transponder, GPS, EIS, stobes, and navs, the 18 amp alternator could not keep up. I would like to install the same instrumentation on my 7 and add landing/taxi lights but unless I can decrease the amp draw from a couple of these, it doesn't look like a viable option. Anyone know of a company that is making the LED navs?...If so, what do you guys (and possibly gals) recommend? > > Thanks, > > Darin Hawkes > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60023#60023 > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:41 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Interesting! I'll have to try that. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Floran Higgins" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:03 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? On my speedster the tailwheel is set loose enough that if I am out of trim in cruise I can give the rudder petal a quick push and cock the tailwheel so that it acts as a trim. As I use right rudder pedal on take of it usually means that I have to kick the left rudder to trim the airplane when I level off. I used to fly a Cessna 180 that I had to do the same thing. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ceashman@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:36 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" --I am strongly motivated to do something with the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. Hi Lowell. When climbing, I use a little right rudder and when descending I use left. When level and cruise in still air I use no rudder. But that again is in still air, you know, those times when you are at peace with your Kitfox, life and the whole world and you just want to fly for ever. But if you constantly need to keep a toe on the rudder pedal, it could be because of slight rudder warping while shrinking the covering (This was probably the first item we all cover, to gain experience with the covering process) You will see sometimes on factory produced airplanes a small tab of aluminum attached to the rudder for ground adjustable trimming purposes, so you can say this is the "poor mans trim tab". So even the professional manufacturers require the need for the customers self aligning trim tab. I guess we do not notice the problem with the elevator, we expect to trim for level flight. So why can't we trim for straight line flight, = straight and level! Unfortunately, while welding all the tubes together. Skystar did not weld a small plate to the rear rudder tube so that we could attach a small piece of aluminum on the outside of the fabric for trimming purposes. My Skybolt plans have this little weldment with the rivet on threads that can be used later for attaching the tab. So' Either I am losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge trying to fly with the wings level. I really don't think you are losing it as a pilot, it looks like a trim tab is required. OR JUST LOSING IT! Lowell, only close friends and family could answer that one :) Thanks for keeping tabs [Ha-Ha]. on the "type of aircraft" index. Cheers. Eric. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:19 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: LED Nav lights?? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Sure do. I bought the Kuntzleman strobe/LED position light combo heads. Amp draw from the LEDs is less than 1A, and the strobes are about 3A. Very nice units, and pricey. But I figure it's cheaper than the mid-air. The wingtip heads have two LEDs (red/green) in front, the strobe in the middle, and a single white LED in the back. The third unit has the strobe and two white LEDs aft. All under very nice polycarbonate teardrop lenses, with tubing adapters for the tail. Bases are machined from aluminum, and have a rubber o-ring to seal from water. I mounted the third on top of the vertical stab, and of course the two on the wingtips. Very bright, and double strobe flashes, about 140 per minute. The box weighs about 10oz, maybe 12oz, and is mounted to the tubing aft of the baggage bag using Adel clamps. Two switches, and +12V and ground, ready to go. I'm thinking of adding an LED flasher, mostly for the Gucci effect, and it's really cheap. With these, and wig-wag landing lights, if you're not seen by anyone below FL200, they're not looking. I highly recommend these units. http://www.kestrobes.com/ Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: LED Nav lights?? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" I am looking at putting LED Navs in on my Series 7 to reduce the amp draw from the alternator. Has anyone used these or know anything about them? I had Whelen strobes and navs on my Model III (912UL) and with the com, transponder, GPS, EIS, stobes, and navs, the 18 amp alternator could not keep up. I would like to install the same instrumentation on my 7 and add landing/taxi lights but unless I can decrease the amp draw from a couple of these, it doesn't look like a viable option. Anyone know of a company that is making the LED navs?...If so, what do you guys (and possibly gals) recommend? Thanks, Darin Hawkes Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60023#60023 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:57 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Lowell, If you could, I'd be very interested in your thrust offset measurements. I put in 2 degrees down and 2 degrees right on my new mount, going by the old standard, but I couldn't find any reference to what it should be for the fox. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Interesting thought. I put washers under the engine mount to shim it a bit when building per the post weld distortion. I will check that to see if the locations are likely to give the result I have. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:45 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > > You MAY find that different motor torque is the culprit. You can either > use > rudder trim or shim for motor offset and probably help. Bob UP. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lowell Fitt" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:51 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" >> >> I tend to agree with Randy on this one. On a calm gradual descent I can > fly >> hands off for long periods. I mention this, because it gives me reason >> to >> believe my wings are trimmed correctly, but at cruise, I need a tad of > right >> rudder to maintain heading. While coming home from our last cross > country, >> We flew two legs of about 3 hours each and during that time, I worked on > my >> coodinated flight with a little right rudder and trying to keep the ball >> centered and watching the wingtips relative to the horizon. Either I am >> losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge >> trying >> to fly with the wings level. I am strongly motivated to do something >> with >> the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. >> >> When we fly the highways or the rivers, no problemo, as we are in turns >> almost continuously, but a GPS heading for hours at a time - I need some >> work. >> >> Lowell >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:01 PM >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? >> >> >> > Rex, >> > >> > I am still skeptical. When on the ground, engine off - just sitting >> > there - >> > have a friend lift one wing tip 3.5 inches. This is easy to do. Note > the >> > difference. Now consider the same difference in the air with very >> > light >> > turbulence. >> > >> > >> > >> > Your second correction: I stand corrected. What I should have said is >> > how >> > coordinated I am flying. But where it applies, straight line cruise, > they >> > are the same thing. >> > >> > >> > >> > Randy >> > >> > . >> > >> > >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:08 AM >> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? >> > >> > >> > >> > Are there really Fox drivers out there that are >> > so good that they can tell if one wing tip is 7" higher than the other? >> > With the plane on a level surface (hangar floor?) this is easy too >> > determine, but try it out on a sorta level field. You need a good >> > level >> > to >> > tell. >> > >> > >> > >> > I would think one can easilly detect 7'' out of level in flight by > looking >> > out under one wing then the other to the horizon. My instructor taught > me >> > this way back. >> > >> > When I fly, I just use the ball for an immediate indication of how >> > level > I >> > have the wings. >> > >> > >> > >> > The ball can be centred without being level in flight. It may act as a >> > level >> > on the groung and stationary. Take for example if you are making a >> > co-ordinated turn. The ball is in the centre but the wings aren't >> > level. >> > >> > >> > Rex. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:44 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox totals --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" When I bought in 1993, just at the time Denney became Skyster, they were producing and selling 40 kits a month with 125 employees. Under Skystar, the totals steadily declined until it was about 3 or 4 or maybe less at the time of the bankruptcy. 40 a month would be about 480 a year and it would take an average of half that to make the 4000 kits in the lore during the time they were being produced.. Ratcheting up from zero in 1984 then down to zero last year, that's twenty two years to make 4000 kits and my guess is that there was a period bracketing 1993 by about 2 or 3 years each way when the factory was screaming. Who knows. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Smythe" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox totals The number 4 thousand was kicking around when I got my kit in 1995. Don Smythe Do Not archive >>So that means there are alot of Kitfoxes still not registered ? I thought >>there was 4 thousnd or more actually sold as kits ? >> ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:13 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New spars, and different. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Dave, It is my understanding that the "beefier" lift struts are the major portion of the conversion from the 1050 GW to the 1200 lb. gross wt. You might want to check into that if you think you might need the extra payload. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave G." Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: New spars, and different. My new spars arrived this morning, and they are much stronger than the old ones. The new ones are marked .065 wall thickness, I guess the old ones were .048. The insert web is also much thicker and the insert is 6" longer. I'm guessing this is all the result of developments that resulted in the heavier later series like the series seven , Vixen and such. The spars are replacing my rear spars, the fronts are undamaged. I expect they will result in a larger safety margin for integrity as I'm told the rear spars bear a larger portion of the load. I had previously noted the new lift struts are beefier than the ones original to my Model IV-1050. So, I've now got a Franken-fox with some stronger newer parts. Does anyone think the mismatch front-to-back would be an issue? I will have symmetrey side to side with most ribs original and original spars on the front. I will be re-using one flaperon and have one from a series six that appears to match the old one. I've attached a photo with the difference in the inserts showing. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:29 PM PST US From: Flybradair@cs.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Instructions for Cargo Bay Kit - Series 5 Hi Mark If you have the baggage sack with fiberglass floorboard then its pretty easy. The floor goes inside the bag (the bag bottom is therefore sandwiched between the fuselage mounting tabs and the floor). Epoxy the tunnel to the floor board- skip the pop rivets. The bag can be glued (contact cement) to the back side of the tunnel so it does not rub on the aft elevator push-pull tube. (or it can be pop riveted to the tunnel if you want). I used hook rings instead of the bolts to tie everything down in the bay. Hope this helps. Brad Martin 5 Lyc o-235 Wichita In a message dated 9/5/06 9:10:55 AM Central Daylight Time, manliker@uiuc.edu writes: > > > Does anyone have instructions for installing the Cargo Bay Kit in a > Series 5. I have the kit, but no instructions. Do they exist? Anyone > have them as a pdf, or available for faxing? > > TIA, > > Mark Anliker > 217-898-4766 > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:19 PM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Instructions for Cargo Bay Kit - Series 5 Hey Mark, Personally I would loose (actually I did) the baggage sack idea and stick in a nice baggage compartment. Several of the guys here in the Pheonix area have done this and it's a great mod. Here are some pictures of how I did it. http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Baggage1.html Dan, Mesa AZ KF IV speedster w/ 912s build in progress Flybradair@cs.com wrote: Hi Mark If you have the baggage sack with fiberglass floorboard then its pretty easy. The floor goes inside the bag (the bag bottom is therefore sandwiched between the fuselage mounting tabs and the floor). Epoxy the tunnel to the floor board- skip the pop rivets. The bag can be glued (contact cement) to the back side of the tunnel so it does not rub on the aft elevator push-pull tube. (or it can be pop riveted to the tunnel if you want). I used hook rings instead of the bolts to tie everything down in the bay. Hope this helps. Brad Martin 5 Lyc o-235 Wichita In a message dated 9/5/06 9:10:55 AM Central Daylight Time, manliker@uiuc.edu writes: Does anyone have instructions for installing the Cargo Bay Kit in a Series 5. I have the kit, but no instructions. Do they exist? Anyone have them as a pdf, or available for faxing? TIA, Mark Anliker 217-898-4766 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:14 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wrong photo. At 03:49 PM 9/6/2006, you wrote: >Here is a close up of the insert end on. > >do not archive Are the inserts still good? The one you show appears OK. Couldn't you re-use them? (The old holes don't matter.) Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:15 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New spars, and different. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 03:30 PM 9/6/2006, you wrote: >Does anyone think the mismatch front-to-back would be an issue? Very possibly. Your front spars actually carry more load, since the CP is only about 30% of the chord from the LE. (Obviously just behind the CG.) Now I've noticed that my wings are very flexible. (I don't know what size spars I have, but will measure them when I get the chance.) What will happen with a softer LE is that when the wings load and deform the local angle of attack will increase, which will cause them to deform more, which will increase the local angle of attack... You get the idea. Now it's possible nothing will happen beyond a certain snappishness to the response. It's also possible you'll fail prematurely under load, or will have a flutter problem, or will snap roll with a vicious gust. Your's would be what we engineers call an "unstable" response. You'll definitely be in test pilot mode. If you have to use these spars, reverse them so the softer spars are in back. Better yet, get the right ones. The tubes should be trivial to procure. (6061 tubing is ubiquitous.) The inserts a little harder, but worst case is you have them welded from scratch. (Cut up a tube that fits the ID closely, then weld on a web, then heat treat.) I'll bet John at Kitfox LLC has some still, or can tell you the source. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:54 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: LED Nav lights?? From: "darinh" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" Thanks guys...Great leads! I like the Kuntzleman set-up from the looks of it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60088#60088 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:20 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: LED Nav lights?? From: "darinh" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" Bradley, Sent you a PM with some questions on your setup... Darin Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60089#60089 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:04 PM PST US From: Bill Hammond Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: LED Nav lights?? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Bill Hammond I decided to build my own LED bulbs and use the Whelen fittings. A description is here http://www.itsys3.com/kitfox/discover.shtml about half way down the page. darinh wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > I am looking at putting LED Navs in on my Series 7 to reduce the amp draw from the alternator. Has anyone used these or know anything about them? I had Whelen strobes and navs on my Model III (912UL) and with the com, transponder, GPS, EIS, stobes, and navs, the 18 amp alternator could not keep up. I would like to install the same instrumentation on my 7 and add landing/taxi lights but unless I can decrease the amp draw from a couple of these, it doesn't look like a viable option. Anyone know of a company that is making the LED navs?...If so, what do you guys (and possibly gals) recommend? > > Thanks, > > Darin Hawkes > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60023#60023 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:21 PM PST US From: "Barry West" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barry West" Michel, I have a Model IV with the 912 S and it is a taildragger. Barry West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > On Sep 6, 2006, at 9:15 PM, Gary Olson wrote: >> There is also a handful of aircraft listed with "Skystar" as the >> manufacturer. That is where mine is listed. Just use the search >> feature on the FAA site. > > I understand, Gary, but the original poster came with a question: What > kind of engine, on this list, do we fly? Then, if I remember correctly, > some else added: And how many, on this list, are taildraggers,? > Of course, we could register all Kitfoxes ever built but ... I pity our > poor friend Lowell who is writing down the list! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:39 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: LED Nav lights?? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" Most LEDs have a voltage drop of just under 2V and a current drain of a few milliamps this means a string of 6-7 LEDs wired in series will have a voltage drop of about 12V. The LEDS aren't expensive so you can experiment a bit with them and build your own nav lights. You can even make them dimmable. According to what I see as traffic lights are replaced with LEDs they are a lot brighter than the conventional filament bulbs. For ease of application there are red LED replacements made for automobiles that plug into the standard sockets.... I haven't seen any blue/green replacements yet. The nice thing is you won't need the expensive hard to find lenses any more. I would recommend that you have an ammeter installed in your plane as a load meter so that when you turn on your landing/taxi lights you will see how much of the nav gear etc. to turn off to prevent over loading the battery. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:38 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: LED Nav lights?? > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > I am looking at putting LED Navs in on my Series 7 to reduce > the amp draw from the alternator. Has anyone used these or > know anything about them? I had Whelen strobes and navs on > my Model III (912UL) and with the com, transponder, GPS, EIS, > stobes, and navs, the 18 amp alternator could not keep up. I > would like to install the same instrumentation on my 7 and > add landing/taxi lights but unless I can decrease the amp > draw from a couple of these, it doesn't look like a viable > option. Anyone know of a company that is making the LED > navs?...If so, what do you guys (and possibly gals) recommend? > > Thanks, > > Darin Hawkes > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60023#60023 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:40 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Bradley, At the risk of sounding like dummy, I haven't a clue how to determine thrust offset measurements. It would seem to me that it would require some sophisticated way of accurately determining the long axis of the airframe and the thrust line of the engine - perp. to the prop flange, I suppose, and calculating an angle. All I did was add washers to compensate for a warped engine mount per the manual. I will report on where the washers are if that is helpful, but my guess is that if the engineers put thrust offset into the mount, it would be buried there somewhere in the design. If it isn't too complex a procedure, I might be willing to try. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bradley M Webb" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" > > Lowell, > If you could, I'd be very interested in your thrust offset measurements. I > put in 2 degrees down and 2 degrees right on my new mount, going by the > old > standard, but I couldn't find any reference to what it should be for the > fox. > > Bradley > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:48 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Interesting thought. I put washers under the engine mount to shim it a > bit > when building per the post weld distortion. I will check that to see if > the > > locations are likely to give the result I have. > > Lowell > do not archive > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Unternaehrer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:45 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" >> >> >> You MAY find that different motor torque is the culprit. You can either >> use >> rudder trim or shim for motor offset and probably help. Bob UP. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lowell Fitt" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:51 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? >> >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" >>> >>> I tend to agree with Randy on this one. On a calm gradual descent I can >> fly >>> hands off for long periods. I mention this, because it gives me reason >>> to >>> believe my wings are trimmed correctly, but at cruise, I need a tad of >> right >>> rudder to maintain heading. While coming home from our last cross >> country, >>> We flew two legs of about 3 hours each and during that time, I worked on >> my >>> coodinated flight with a little right rudder and trying to keep the ball >>> centered and watching the wingtips relative to the horizon. Either I am >>> losing it as a pilot or just losing it, but I have a real challenge >>> trying >>> to fly with the wings level. I am strongly motivated to do something >>> with >>> the rudder trim and see if that is my problem. >>> >>> When we fly the highways or the rivers, no problemo, as we are in turns >>> almost continuously, but a GPS heading for hours at a time - I need some >>> work. >>> >>> Lowell >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" >>> To: >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:01 PM >>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? >>> >>> >>> > Rex, >>> > >>> > I am still skeptical. When on the ground, engine off - just sitting >>> > there - >>> > have a friend lift one wing tip 3.5 inches. This is easy to do. Note >> the >>> > difference. Now consider the same difference in the air with very >>> > light >>> > turbulence. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Your second correction: I stand corrected. What I should have said >>> > is >>> > how >>> > coordinated I am flying. But where it applies, straight line cruise, >> they >>> > are the same thing. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Randy >>> > >>> > . >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _____ >>> > >>> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >>> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw >>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:08 AM >>> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >>> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Are there really Fox drivers out there that are >>> > so good that they can tell if one wing tip is 7" higher than the >>> > other? >>> > With the plane on a level surface (hangar floor?) this is easy too >>> > determine, but try it out on a sorta level field. You need a good >>> > level >>> > to >>> > tell. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I would think one can easilly detect 7'' out of level in flight by >> looking >>> > out under one wing then the other to the horizon. My instructor taught >> me >>> > this way back. >>> > >>> > When I fly, I just use the ball for an immediate indication of how >>> > level >> I >>> > have the wings. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > The ball can be centred without being level in flight. It may act as a >>> > level >>> > on the groung and stationary. Take for example if you are making a >>> > co-ordinated turn. The ball is in the centre but the wings aren't >>> > level. >>> > >>> > >>> > Rex. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:10 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wrong photo. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I am surpised to see that the new inserts do not have the "V" relief cut in each end. This "V" cut is to reduce the sharp change in stiffness at the insert ends, which creates stress points on the spar. Anyone else have the inserts without the relief "Vs"? It is new to me. Kurt S. --- "Dave G." wrote: > Here is a close up of the insert end on. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:58 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New spars, and different. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I agree. Stiffer rear spars will make the front spars seem weaker in comparison causing some divergence and maybe increasing a chance of flutter. Test carefully, or change them both. Kurt S. --- "Dave G." wrote: > My new spars arrived this morning, and they are much > stronger than the old ones. The new ones are marked > .065 wall thickness, I guess the old ones were .048. > The insert web is also much thicker and the insert > is 6" longer. I'm guessing this is all the result of > developments that resulted in the heavier later > series like the series seven , Vixen and such. > > The spars are replacing my rear spars, the fronts > are undamaged. I expect they will result in a larger > safety margin for integrity as I'm told the rear > spars bear a larger portion of the load. I had > previously noted the new lift struts are beefier > than the ones original to my Model IV-1050. > > So, I've now got a Franken-fox with some stronger > newer parts. Does anyone think the mismatch > front-to-back would be an issue? I will have > symmetrey side to side with most ribs original and > original spars on the front. I will be re-using one > flaperon and have one from a series six that appears > to match the old one. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:14 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: So Far --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" The totals to date. 94 replies. TW-83 NW-7 Floats 4 Engines 503-2, 532-1, 582-19, 618-1, 912UL 22, 912ULX-2, 912ULS-14, 912A-1, 914-1, NSI-5, NSIT-2, StrSub-1, EA81-Belt -1, EA81 RAM-1, EA81 R-Aero-1, EA81T-IntrC-1, Sub EJ-22-1, J2200-3, L O-235-2, L O-290-1, C IO-240-3, C O-200-1, KFM-1, VW 1915-1, VW 2276-1 Aircraft Models: Model I-2, Model II-12, Model III-7, Modle IV-1050-3, Model IV-1200-20, Classic IV-8, Model IV Speedster-10, Series 5TD-15, Series 5 Vixen-3, Series 6-4, Series 7-4 Great guys: Nearly 100, Great gals at least 101 Please don't add up the numbers, I think we have more engines than airplanes. Did someone out there convert their little single to a twin?? Or is it more airplanes than engines, I forget. Lowell Lowell ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:35 PM PST US From: "Joel Mapes" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox specs for Lowell's count --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" Lowell, Please add mine to your census. Model 5 912ULS GTA In-Flight adjustable pitch prop Tail Wheel for 40 hours, then Aerocomp amphibs N422NL received her airworthiness certificate today and her first flight should be within two weeks. Joel _________________________________________________________________ Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:07 PM PST US From: "Werner Keiper" Subject: AW: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Werner Keiper" Hi, I have a Kitfox III with 912 Rotax and it is a taildragger. Werner Keiper / Germany -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Michel Verheughe Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. September 2006 22:31 An: kitfox-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Totals --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Sep 6, 2006, at 9:15 PM, Gary Olson wrote: > There is also a handfulof aircraft listed with "Skystar" as the > manufacturer. That is where mine is listed. Just use the search > feature on the FAA site. I understand, Gary, but the original poster came with a question: What kind of engine, on this list, do we fly? Then, if I remember correctly, some else added: And how many, on this list, are taildraggers,? Of course, we could register all Kitfoxes ever built but ... I pity our poor friend Lowell who is writing down the list! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive