Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Instructions for Cargo Bay Kit - Series 5 (Michael Gibbs)
2. 04:01 AM - Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (Dave)
3. 04:14 AM - Turtle deck vibration (Fox5flyer)
4. 04:23 AM - Re: Name Check - Airplane type (Harold Flynn)
5. 05:30 AM - Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (wingnut)
6. 05:34 AM - Viewing Posted Photos (Howard)
7. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (Dave)
8. 06:12 AM - Re: Wings Level ? (Noel Loveys)
9. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (kirkhull)
10. 06:42 AM - Re: Name Check - Airplane type (Barry West)
11. 07:12 AM - Re: Turtle deck vibration (Lowell Fitt)
12. 07:17 AM - Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (kitfoxmike)
13. 07:18 AM - More additions (Lowell Fitt)
14. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (kirkhull)
15. 08:53 AM - Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (kitfoxmike)
16. 08:54 AM - Re: Viewing Posted Photos (Don Pearsall)
17. 09:38 AM - Re: Viewing Posted Photos (Dave G.)
18. 10:06 AM - Kitfox runs out of gas (Clem Nichols)
19. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (Brian Rodgers)
20. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (kurt schrader)
21. 11:34 AM - Re: Turtle deck vibration (kurt schrader)
22. 12:00 PM - Flyins Ontario Calendar I found (Dave)
23. 12:02 PM - Re: Wings Level ? (kurt schrader)
24. 12:12 PM - Re: Wings Level ? (Bradley M Webb)
25. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip (Bradley M Webb)
26. 12:43 PM - Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (Jay Fabian)
27. 01:06 PM - Re: Name Check - Airplane type (Michael Laundy)
28. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (Dave)
29. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (Rex)
30. 01:52 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (Dave G.)
31. 02:04 PM - Re: Turtle deck vibration (Nelson Goguen)
32. 02:06 PM - Re: More additions (Donald STEVENSON)
33. 02:11 PM - Kitfox List Re: Kitfox runs out of gas (John Disher)
34. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (kirkhull)
35. 03:00 PM - Re: Name Check - Airplane type (wingnut)
36. 03:30 PM - Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (kitfoxmike)
37. 04:37 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (John Oakley)
38. 05:26 PM - Re: Turtle deck vibration (Lynn Matteson)
39. 05:47 PM - Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (kitfoxmike)
40. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (john perry)
41. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (neflyer48)
42. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (john perry)
43. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Name Check - Airplane type (Herbert R Gottelt)
44. 10:26 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (John Oakley)
45. 11:12 PM - Please add my kitfox to the List (Willem Huisman)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Instructions for Cargo Bay Kit - Series 5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>His reference was directed to Mike Gibbs KF-IV which crashed and
>totaled coming in and pancaked.(jump in here Mike to add anything)
>His baggage compartment only had adel clamps and did not move.
The only thing that I'd add is that the rescue team estimated our
impact at 20g and said that they generally don't see any survivors
past about 23g. During construction, I also performed the
stand-in-the-baggage-area test successfully.
Steve Kellander constructed his gun bag similar to the way Dan has
his, while mine used a solid, rectangular tube made from aluminum
angle and sheet (you can see it a bit in Dan's photos). The tube
survived the crash completely intact and will be going into the
empennage of my new Series 6. :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 2
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Subject: | Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO27549/
09/08/2006
Plane goes down in Wareham after aircraft runs out of gas
[video]
E-mail this story to a friend
WAREHAM, Mass. -- It' s not a pretty picture for a pilot and passenger, who
take off in a plane from Plymouth and plummet into a Wareham cranberry bog.
The pair said plane ran out of gas.
No serious injuries resulted from this small aircraft crash on Blackmore
Pond Road, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.
The plane, which was built in 1999, is a home built Kitfox model aircraft
and is registered to James Lionberger of Marion. However, it is not
confirmed if Lionberger was actually one of the two people on the flight.
(Copyright (c) 2006 Sunbeam Television Corp. All Rights Reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.) JHR
Message 3
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Subject: | Turtle deck vibration |
My S5 has always been a pretty smooth flyer. However, one thing that
has always bothered me and is causing some wear is the turtle deck
vibrating at cruise speeds, presumably due to some turbulent air. I
can't hear it, but I can see it in the rear view mirror and the
vibration is causing wear on the contact surfaces. I am thinking that
perhaps some vortex generators might smooth out the air flow and help to
either solve or ameliorate the problem. I think it might work, but I
don't know where to place them. Has anybody tried this with any
success?
Deke
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Name Check - Airplane type |
Harold Flynn
S-5
Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
check below to see if you are on the list. I have had a couple of senior
moments and am almost positive, I lost another R name somewhere. Also I
don't have last names for the last three entries.
Lowell
Algate
Gary
IV-1200
Ashman
Eric
CIV
Baltrusaitis
Ben
5
Anderson
John
5
Bazzill
Clint
IV-1200S
Begnaud
Cliff
5
Boling
Ralph
5 vixen
Cannon
Mike
II
Clements
Travis
IV-1200
Cozik
Kevin
6
Cravener
Don
IV-1200
Crutchlow
Mike
II
D'Archangel
Dick
C-IV
Daughenbaugh
Randy
5
Doud
Herbert
IV-1200
Eccles
Steve
5
Estapa
David
5
Fabian
Jay
IV-1200
Fitt
Lowell
IV-1200
Fitzgerald
Mo
7A
Gerace
Greg
II
Goguen
Nelson
5 Vixen
Hastedt
Margaret
CIV
Hefferen
Rex
III
Higgins
Florin
IV-1200S
Holliday
Bob
5
Horne
Glenn
II
Hull
Kirk
CIV
Huston
Barry
IV-1200
Jones
Kenneth
7
Kerr
John
CIV
Klerks
Jim
IV-1050
Liebmann
Ron
II
Lina
Bruce
V
Logan
Mike
5
Loveys
Noel
III-A
Magdic
Steve
III
Martin
Brad
5
Matteson
Lynn
McConnell
Roger
7
Meneszes
Marco
II
Morisse
Deke
5
Nichols
Clem
IV-1200
Olsen
Gary
7
Osborn
Tom
III IV Wing
Parker
Jud
5
Patterson
Scott
IV-1200
Perry
John
II
Persels
Lyle
IV-1200
Puls
Jeff
CIV-1200
Purdy
Dwight
II
Rueb
Duane
5
Sather
Shane
Lt SQ
Schieffer
Cjuck
IV-1200
Schrader
Kurt
Shaw
Rex
IV-1200
Shiple
Fred
6
Smythe
Don
IV-1200
Thiessen
Mic
IV-1200S
Toft
Graeme
IV-1200
Toro
Jose
II
Vader
Tim
CIV-1200
Verheughe
Michel
III
Wahlquist
Dave
III
Wehner
Clem
IV-1050
Wilson
Steve
II
Wilyard
Bill
CIV-1200
Young
Dee
II
Mike
IV-1200
Eric
IV-1200S
David
III
---------------------------------
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
I'm skeptical that it was as simple as running out of gas. Wareham to Plymouth
is 17 miles driving distance. Just the gas in he header tank will take you farther
than that. Seems unlikely that they would take off with totally dry main
tanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60329#60329
Message 6
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Subject: | Viewing Posted Photos |
I notice on my Digest List, that members have posted photos. How do I
view them?
Howard Ligon
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
If so, then perhaps wing tank caps that came off or were not on in flight
.
The siphoning could evacuate a tank quickly I believe but i do not know how
long it would take .
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:28 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>
> I'm skeptical that it was as simple as running out of gas. Wareham to
> Plymouth is 17 miles driving distance. Just the gas in he header tank will
> take you farther than that. Seems unlikely that they would take off with
> totally dry main tanks.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60329#60329
>
>
>
Message 8
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
For cruising a cockpit adjustable rudder trim tab isn't really necessary.
Get a piece of aluminium 6061 .025" X 6" x 3" should do and staple it on
the trailing edge of your rudder with blind rivets. Neatness and following
curves counts! Set your plane up for a cruise speed and determine what
rudder corrections are needed. If you always find yourself standing on the
right rudder pedal then when you get down bend the tab slightly to the left.
Yes it's not adjustable in flight but it will take the tediousness out of
having to stand on one foot for a couple of hours at a time. It won't be
nearly as heavy as the cockpit controlled unit but it will work at a
fraction of the weight. Make sure you add checking it to your pre-flight
walk around.
I would like to see a trim on the horizontal stabilizer but the truth of the
matter is that the plane trims out pretty well just by using the tiniest bit
of flaperon input. Maybe the pendulum effect of having floats on and the
ventral fin help keep everything straight.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:24 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I'm also thinking about a trim fin for the rudder, Lowell. I'd like a
> cabin-adjustable. The biggest problem is I don't want to have to deal
> with stripping the covering and going in there with a servo, etc. I'm
> going to think more about it after I get my Sport Pilot Cert.
> and I get
> to actually GO somewhere...then when my right leg gets oversize, I'll
> put that project higher on the priority list. : )
>
> Lynn
> On Wednesday, September 6, 2006, at 06:02 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > I do have a bit of dihedral. I am goung to ry to do something with
> > the rudder. I am in deep thought about it, trying to avoid
> the tab,
> > but that eventualy will be the likely solution.
> >
> > Lowell
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
It would not surprise me at all if someone took off with empty tanks. Some
people don't do a preflight and just go. Also some people will know they are
almost out of fuel but thank that they can make it any way.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:29 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
I'm skeptical that it was as simple as running out of gas. Wareham to
Plymouth is 17 miles driving distance. Just the gas in he header tank will
take you farther than that. Seems unlikely that they would take off with
totally dry main tanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60329#60329
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: Name Check - Airplane type |
I'm not on the list. I have Model IV with a 912 S and it is a
taildragger.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: Harold Flynn
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:22 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Name Check - Airplane type
Harold Flynn
S-5
Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
check below to see if you are on the list. I have had a couple of
senior
moments and am almost positive, I lost another R name somewhere.
Also I
don't have last names for the last three entries.
Lowell
Algate
Gary
IV-1200
Ashman
Eric
CIV
Baltrusaitis
Ben
5
Anderson
John
5
Bazzill
Clint
IV-1200S
Begnaud
Cliff
5
Boling
Ralph
5 vixen
Cannon
Mike
II
Clements
Travis
IV-1200
Cozik
Kevin
6
Cravener
Don
IV-1200
Crutchlow
Mike
II
D'Archangel
Dick
C-IV
Daughenbaugh
Randy
5
Doud
Herbert
IV-1200
Eccles
Steve
5
Estapa
David
5
Fabian
Jay
IV-1200
Fitt
Lowell
IV-1200
Fitzgerald
Mo
7A
Gerace
Greg
II
Goguen
Nelson
5 Vixen
Hastedt
Margaret
CIV
Hefferen
Rex
III
Higgins
Florin
IV-1200S
Holliday
Bob
5
Horne
Glenn
II
Hull
Kirk
CIV
Huston
Barry
IV-1200
Jones
Kenneth
7
Kerr
John
CIV
Klerks
Jim
IV-1050
Liebmann
Ron
II
Lina
Bruce
V
Logan
Mike
5
Loveys
Noel
III-A
Magdic
Steve
III
Martin
Brad
5
Matteson
Lynn
McConnell
Roger
7
Meneszes
Marco
II
Morisse
Deke
5
Nichols
Clem
IV-1200
Olsen
Gary
7
Osborn
Tom
III IV Wing
Parker
Jud
5
Patterson
Scott
IV-1200
Perry
John
II
Persels
Lyle
IV-1200
Puls
Jeff
CIV-1200
Purdy
Dwight
II
Rueb
Duane
5
Sather
Shane
Lt
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Turtle deck vibration |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Deke, I get a little bit of pulsing evident in the fabric under the wing
from time to time. I have attributed it to the prop pulses in the prop wash
area. Keep us posted on what you find out.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:05 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration
My S5 has always been a pretty smooth flyer. However, one thing that has
always bothered me and is causing some wear is the turtle deck vibrating at
cruise speeds, presumably due to some turbulent air. I can't hear it, but I
can see it in the rear view mirror and the vibration is causing wear on the
contact surfaces. I am thinking that perhaps some vortex generators might
smooth out the air flow and help to either solve or ameliorate the problem.
I think it might work, but I don't know where to place them. Has anybody
tried this with any success?
Deke
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
The way I see it, this can happen in several ways. One somebody stole his gas
and he knew he filled it the day before. Still no excuse, you should always check,
not only the site tubes, but if you don't see the line you open the tanks
and double check. Next, the pilot hasn't flown very much and just got side
tracked and didn't do a preflight. But probably what gets me, is why he took
off without fuel, during the day we should have 30 min. left in the tanks to be
within faa regs. after landing. right people really go by that stuff. Am I
the only one that lands when the tanks get twards the bottom of the sight tubes.
Now this is for if the tanks were really empty. From the looks of the plane,
who knows, those tanks can empty pretty fast in that possision. So I guess
we will never know if it was just fuel starvation or truelly out of gas.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60352#60352
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I added the following:
Werner Keiper
Joel Mapes
Jerry Kohles
Harold Flynn
Lowell
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
A good crash investigator can tell if there was fuel just buy looking at the
carbs. There are also other ways of telling depending on the aircraft.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:16 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
The way I see it, this can happen in several ways. One somebody stole his
gas and he knew he filled it the day before. Still no excuse, you should
always check, not only the site tubes, but if you don't see the line you
open the tanks and double check. Next, the pilot hasn't flown very much and
just got side tracked and didn't do a preflight. But probably what gets me,
is why he took off without fuel, during the day we should have 30 min. left
in the tanks to be within faa regs. after landing. right people really go by
that stuff. Am I the only one that lands when the tanks get twards the
bottom of the sight tubes. Now this is for if the tanks were really empty.
>From the looks of the plane, who knows, those tanks can empty pretty fast in
that possision. So I guess we will never know if it was just fuel starvation
or truelly out of gas.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60352#60352
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
I would hate to be that guy if they find that he just didn't have fuel when he
left the airport.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60370#60370
Message 16
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Subject: | Viewing Posted Photos |
Howard, most of the photos come now as email attachments. Depending on your
email software, you should be able to just click on the attachment and your
photo-viewing software will open it. If you don't see any photo attachments,
then your email software may be stripping them off the emails.
Also, if you just get the digest version, it will not have the attachments.
You have to get the individual emails for that, or go to the Matronics daily
archive to view the pics.
Don Pearsall
Admin
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:33 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Viewing Posted Photos
I notice on my Digest List, that members have posted photos. How do I view
them?
Howard Ligon
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Viewing Posted Photos |
I think that you must be recieving individual emails to get attachments.
If you recieve the digest I think the attachments are stripped off.
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Pearsall
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Viewing Posted Photos
Howard, most of the photos come now as email attachments. Depending on
your email software, you should be able to just click on the attachment
and your photo-viewing software will open it. If you don't see any photo
attachments, then your email software may be stripping them off the
emails.
Also, if you just get the digest version, it will not have the
attachments. You have to get the individual emails for that, or go to
the Matronics daily archive to view the pics.
Don Pearsall
Admin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Howard
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:33 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Viewing Posted Photos
I notice on my Digest List, that members have posted photos. How do
I view them?
Howard Ligon
Message 18
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Subject: | Kitfox runs out of gas |
If you watched the video, you heard the announcer say the pair had been
taking pictures. That's still no excuse for running out of fuel, but
it's likely that their flight totaled more than 17 miles.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Rodgers" <brodg@texas.net>
..... or perhaps space aliens ....
......or maybe gasoline-eating bacteria.....
Speculating is such fun.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> If so, then perhaps wing tank caps that came off or were not on in
flight
> .
> The siphoning could evacuate a tank quickly I believe but i do not know
how
> long it would take .
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:28 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> >
> > I'm skeptical that it was as simple as running out of gas. Wareham to
> > Plymouth is 17 miles driving distance. Just the gas in he header tank
will
> > take you farther than that. Seems unlikely that they would take off with
> > totally dry main tanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60329#60329
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Dave,
I lost 3 gal in 45 minutes when checking my gas cap
seals for leaks. I flew them on their normal sides,
then swapped them. The fuel moved from the well
sealed tank to the poorly sealed tank and leaked out.
Tanks were less than 3/4s full. The pressurized tank
went down to 2 gal.
I am sure a bigger leak or a missing cap could drain
it much faster.
Kurt S. S-5
--- Dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
> If so, then perhaps wing tank caps that came off
> or were not on in flight.
> The siphoning could evacuate a tank quickly I
> believe but i do not know how
> long it would take.
> Dave
__________________________________________________
Message 21
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|
Subject: | Re: Turtle deck vibration |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Same with me Deke,
The only vibrating part seems to be the turtledeck.
I wonder if the air is seperating over the windscreen,
or the strakes on the side of the turtledeck are
vibrating in the turbulence from the draggy pocket
behind the aft spar. Maybe both. I'd like to attend
to both myself, when I get the time.
The VG's are easy to do. You can test them by taping
them down with enough good clear tape. Try them 6"
between pair centers. The pairs are 1" apart and set
17 degrees off in opposite directions, leading edge
closest. Run a straight edge parallel to the wing
leading edge 6" back and put the VG backs against it.
A cardboard template makes it easier to set the 17
degree angle and distances.
You can adjust the distance back from the leading edge
and test fly to get the best results. Somewhere
between 4" and 8" back should do it IMHO.
I expect to retire at the end of the year and maybe
fly all for fun then. :-) Then I can do a lot more
of this fun testing stuff. Not there just yet.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> My S5 has always been a pretty smooth flyer.
> However, one thing that has always bothered me and
> is causing some wear is the turtle deck vibrating at
> cruise speeds, presumably due to some turbulent air.
> I can't hear it, but I can see it in the rear view
> mirror and the vibration is causing wear on the
> contact surfaces. I am thinking that perhaps some
> vortex generators might smooth out the air flow and
> help to either solve or ameliorate the problem. I
> think it might work, but I don't know where to place
> them. Has anybody tried this with any success?
> Deke
__________________________________________________
Message 22
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|
Subject: | Flyins Ontario Calendar I found |
I might try to make it to Tillsonburg or St thomas Sat or Sunday .
WX looks better for Sunday for SW ontario at this point.
Dave
September 9-10, Tillsonburg, ON: Tillsonburg Airport will be hosting a
fly-in/drive-in as part of "Doors Open Ontario/Oxford" from 9 AM until 4
PM. Visit our airport for free tours of the Harvard buildings as well as
Spectrum Paint and Interior. Or just fly in and enjoy some food from our
barbecue and a refreshment. Vendors on site. Food will be available from
11:30 until 1:30 both days. For more information please contact the
airport at 519-842-2929 or e-mail: amurray@tillsonburg.ca If you are
interested in visiting any of the other participating 28 sites, please
contact us for transportation. Visit: www.doorsopenoxford.ca for more
info.
September 10, St. Thomas, ON: COPA Flight 75's 11th annual
fly-in/drive-in breakfast. Antique cars, live entertainment, excellent
food and the Lancaster Bomber fly-in and static display. Other
exceptional aircraft and exhibitors are anticipated. Contact
Easton44@rogers.com or bassons@execulink.com for more information.
September 9 Fort Francis ON
7th Annual pancake breakfast and BBQ at the Ft. Francis Airport.
Breakfast served from 9-11AM and the BBQ runs from 11AM-3PM. Check out
the Homebuilts, Wheel planes, Amphibs, old cars and motorcycles. For
more information call Bruce Caldwell at 807-274-3070 or email Crystal
Godbout
September 9th Brampton ON
RAA-TR Fall Corn Roast. Past events have featured roast pork, turkey,
and BBQ bratwursts to complement the farm fresh corn. Pot Luck for
salads, desserts, and buns. Coffee and other refreshments available. All
welcome, nominal cost. RAA-TR hangar at north end of field at Brampton
Airport NC3. Earl Trimble or Bill Tee at 905-787-8524 and 416-742-8939 .
September 10 Orono ON
RAA Oshawa Annual Barnyard Fly-in at Hawke Field (private strip)
9am-3pm. N44 00, W78 39 . Relaxed fly-in and lunch, with activities.
Circuit Height 1600 ASL. Frequency 122.775 . Nordo follow standard
procedures. All circuits to the WEST of 18/36 runway. 3300 ft grass, 300
ft displaced threshold on 18. Keep safety as first priority. Contact
Chris Gardiner at 905-668-5703 or cgardn628@rogers.com . Website at
www.geocities.com/oneflyguy@rogers.com
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: Wings Level ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
How about a cable with a button release in the cockpit
that pulls on a long spring or bungy attached to the
rudder cable or pedal? The "long" spring is necessary
to avoid the rapid rise in tension from a short spring
that would limit rudder movement.
You just pull a little tension on the cable/spring and
it pulls the rudder enough to trim.
The other way is a knob with a cable wrapped around a
pully that attaches to springs for both rudder sides,
if you need to adjust both ways.
Both are heavier than just a tab, but allow cockpit
adjustment without tearing the plane apart.
You can get fancy with a large servo, cables and
springs if you want electric trim.
Lots of ways to do it....
Kurt S.
--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> I'm also thinking about a trim fin for the rudder,
> Lowell. I'd like a
> cabin-adjustable. The biggest problem is I don't
> want to have to deal
> with stripping the covering and going in there with
> a servo, etc. I'm
> going to think more about it after I get my Sport
> Pilot Cert. and I get
> to actually GO somewhere...then when my right leg
> gets oversize, I'll
> put that project higher on the priority list. : )
>
> Lynn
__________________________________________________
Message 24
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
This is what I had, and what every Cessna 172 rudder has. Bu tI think I'm
going to be a little more suave about it on my new rudder. The RV guys are
using a balsa airplane trailing edge. Basically a wedge glued to the left
side of the rudder, at the trailing edge. Very light, and the size
determines the amount of trim. Cover or paint, and I think they look better.
The problem I had with the tab is that there isn't much meat back there to
rivet to. The flex as the rivets age lessens the effect after a while. Some
structural adhesive would have helped, but I didn't have any, and have now
re-covered my rudder.
Your system is very effective, though.
Bradley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
For cruising a cockpit adjustable rudder trim tab isn't really necessary.
Get a piece of aluminium 6061 .025" X 6" x 3" should do and staple it on
the trailing edge of your rudder with blind rivets. Neatness and following
curves counts! Set your plane up for a cruise speed and determine what
rudder corrections are needed. If you always find yourself standing on the
right rudder pedal then when you get down bend the tab slightly to the left.
Yes it's not adjustable in flight but it will take the tediousness out of
having to stand on one foot for a couple of hours at a time. It won't be
nearly as heavy as the cockpit controlled unit but it will work at a
fraction of the weight. Make sure you add checking it to your pre-flight
walk around.
I would like to see a trim on the horizontal stabilizer but the truth of the
matter is that the plane trims out pretty well just by using the tiniest bit
of flaperon input. Maybe the pendulum effect of having floats on and the
ventral fin help keep everything straight.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:24 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wings Level ?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I'm also thinking about a trim fin for the rudder, Lowell. I'd like a
> cabin-adjustable. The biggest problem is I don't want to have to deal
> with stripping the covering and going in there with a servo, etc. I'm
> going to think more about it after I get my Sport Pilot Cert.
> and I get
> to actually GO somewhere...then when my right leg gets oversize, I'll
> put that project higher on the priority list. : )
>
> Lynn
> On Wednesday, September 6, 2006, at 06:02 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > I do have a bit of dihedral. I am goung to ry to do something with
> > the rudder. I am in deep thought about it, trying to avoid
> the tab,
> > but that eventualy will be the likely solution.
> >
> > Lowell
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
>>>
>>>...I lost 3 gal in 45 minutes...
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>Kurt S. S-5
Hell, I lost that just flying the 582...
Bradley
Message 26
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|
Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
Hi Guys,
Well just to let you know Jim and the passenger are OK.
He is a friend of mine and this is how it happened as he told me last night.
He did do a preflight , and had half full tanks in Both wings. He even
checked the caps before flight, But he thinks he did not put the right side
one on tight or at all. As it was missing at the landing site?
While flying he noticed the pilots side gauge had no gas in it, but the
right tank still had 1/2 left. No Problem they always read diff untill
settling after landing.
Then as they headed back a few min later the engine Stopped!
Tried the restart, called in emergency landing , and started the landing, at
1,500'. Not too high but better to be in a kitfox than a fast plane.
Made the landing but slid off the Bog into the smallriver that feeds the
bog.
No prop strike, engine was dead, no major damage, except fiberglass and
Pride.
Problem is: If the cap of the half full tank had come off, why was there
gas still in it??? I donot remember if he has the glass fuel filters off of
each tank?
I would assume the gas would siphon out fast. Maybe he had two probs, clog
in line and ran out of gas in the other wing.
He did not use auto gas with alcohol either, he filled up a week ago in NH
at an airport with their auto fuel with no alcohol.
They are still invesigating it.
But they are OK, I think that is the first thing to be concerned with, not
making jokes about someones life just because you do not know them.
Lets just learn from the accidents, ok.
Plus , he is a retired fighter pilot, so he also has a few hours under his
belt and he is not a low timer . Just for extra info.
Jay Fabian
4-1200 912UL
PS. What ever was the out come on the auto fuel / alcohol problem? we have
the up to 10% methanol in our gas here in Mass.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I lost 3 gal in 45 minutes when checking my gas cap
> seals for leaks. I flew them on their normal sides,
> then swapped them. The fuel moved from the well
> sealed tank to the poorly sealed tank and leaked out.
> Tanks were less than 3/4s full. The pressurized tank
> went down to 2 gal.
>
> I am sure a bigger leak or a missing cap could drain
> it much faster.
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- Dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>
>> If so, then perhaps wing tank caps that came off
>> or were not on in flight.
>
>> The siphoning could evacuate a tank quickly I
>> believe but i do not know how
>> long it would take.
>
>> Dave
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 27
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|
Subject: | Re: Name Check - Airplane type |
Laundy
Mike
Model 3 Amphibs
Cornwall UK
neflyer48 <neflyer48@cableone.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48"
Jerry Kohles
Norfolk Ne.
Model 3 912UL
Tail dragger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt"
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:39 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Name Check - Airplane type
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>
> check below to see if you are on the list. I have had a couple of senior
> moments and am almost positive, I lost another R name somewhere. Also I
> don't have last names for the last three entries.
>
> Lowell
>
> Algate
> Gary
> IV-1200
>
> Ashman
> Eric
> CIV
>
> Baltrusaitis
> Ben
> 5
>
> Anderson
> John
> 5
>
> Bazzill
> Clint
> IV-1200S
>
> Begnaud
> Cliff
> 5
>
> Boling
> Ralph
> 5 vixen
>
> Cannon
> Mike
> II
>
> Clements
> Travis
> IV-1200
>
> Cozik
> Kevin
> 6
>
> Cravener
> Don
> IV-1200
>
> Crutchlow
> Mike
> II
>
> D'Archangel
> Dick
> C-IV
>
> Daughenbaugh
> Randy
> 5
>
> Doud
> Herbert
> IV-1200
>
> Eccles
> Steve
> 5
>
> Estapa
> David
> 5
>
> Fabian
> Jay
> IV-1200
>
> Fitt
> Lowell
> IV-1200
>
> Fitzgerald
> Mo
> 7A
>
> Gerace
> Greg
> II
>
> Goguen
> Nelson
> 5 Vixen
>
> Hastedt
> Margaret
> CIV
>
> Hefferen
> Rex
> III
>
> Higgins
> Florin
> IV-1200S
>
> Holliday
> Bob
> 5
>
> Horne
> Glenn
> II
>
> Hull
> Kirk
> CIV
>
> Huston
> Barry
> IV-1200
>
> Jones
> Kenneth
> 7
>
> Kerr
> John
> CIV
>
> Klerks
> Jim
> IV-1050
>
> Liebmann
> Ron
> II
>
> Lina
> Bruce
> V
>
> Logan
> Mike
> 5
>
> Loveys
> Noel
> III-A
>
> Magdic
> Steve
> III
>
> Martin
> Brad
> 5
>
> Matteson
> Lynn
>
>
> McConnell
> Roger
> 7
>
> Meneszes
> Marco
> II
>
> Morisse
> Deke
> 5
>
> Nichols
> Clem
> IV-1200
>
> Olsen
> Gary
> 7
>
> Osborn
> Tom
> III IV Wing
>
> Parker
> Jud
> 5
>
> Patterson
> Scott
> IV-1200
>
> Perry
> John
> II
>
> Persels
> Lyle
> IV-1200
>
> Puls
> Jeff
> CIV-1200
>
> Purdy
> Dwight
> II
>
> Rueb
> Duane
> 5
>
> Sather
> Shane
> Lt SQ
>
> Schieffer
> Cjuck
> IV-1200
>
> Schrader
> Kurt
>
>
> Shaw
> Rex
> IV-1200
>
> Shiple
> Fred
> 6
>
> Smythe
> Don
> IV-1200
>
> Thiessen
> Mic
> IV-1200S
>
> Toft
> Graeme
> IV-1200
>
> Toro
> Jose
> II
>
> Vader
> Tim
> CIV-1200
>
> Verheughe
> Michel
> III
>
> Wahlquist
> Dave
> III
>
> Wehner
> Clem
> IV-1050
>
> Wilson
> Steve
> II
>
> Wilyard
> Bill
> CIV-1200
>
> Young
> Dee
> II
>
>
> Mike
> IV-1200
>
>
> Eric
> IV-1200S
>
>
> David
> III
>
>
> --
>
>
---------------------------------
Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" The
Wall Street Journal
Message 28
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|
Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Jay,
Thanks for the report and good news that they are ok.
It can happen to anyone and sounds like a pretty good forced approach he
made and with little damage .
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd@COMCAST.NET>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian"
> <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Well just to let you know Jim and the passenger are OK.
>
> He is a friend of mine and this is how it happened as he told me last
> night.
>
> He did do a preflight , and had half full tanks in Both wings. He even
> checked the caps before flight, But he thinks he did not put the right
> side one on tight or at all. As it was missing at the landing site?
> While flying he noticed the pilots side gauge had no gas in it, but the
> right tank still had 1/2 left. No Problem they always read diff untill
> settling after landing.
> Then as they headed back a few min later the engine Stopped!
>
> Tried the restart, called in emergency landing , and started the landing,
> at 1,500'. Not too high but better to be in a kitfox than a fast plane.
> Made the landing but slid off the Bog into the smallriver that feeds the
> bog.
>
> No prop strike, engine was dead, no major damage, except fiberglass and
> Pride.
>
> Problem is: If the cap of the half full tank had come off, why was there
> gas still in it??? I donot remember if he has the glass fuel filters off
> of each tank?
> I would assume the gas would siphon out fast. Maybe he had two probs, clog
> in line and ran out of gas in the other wing.
> He did not use auto gas with alcohol either, he filled up a week ago in NH
> at an airport with their auto fuel with no alcohol.
> They are still invesigating it.
>
> But they are OK, I think that is the first thing to be concerned with, not
> making jokes about someones life just because you do not know them.
> Lets just learn from the accidents, ok.
>
> Plus , he is a retired fighter pilot, so he also has a few hours under his
> belt and he is not a low timer . Just for extra info.
>
> Jay Fabian
> 4-1200 912UL
>
> PS. What ever was the out come on the auto fuel / alcohol problem? we
> have the up to 10% methanol in our gas here in Mass.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video
> clip
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I lost 3 gal in 45 minutes when checking my gas cap
>> seals for leaks. I flew them on their normal sides,
>> then swapped them. The fuel moved from the well
>> sealed tank to the poorly sealed tank and leaked out.
>> Tanks were less than 3/4s full. The pressurized tank
>> went down to 2 gal.
>>
>> I am sure a bigger leak or a missing cap could drain
>> it much faster.
>>
>> Kurt S. S-5
>>
>> --- Dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If so, then perhaps wing tank caps that came off
>>> or were not on in flight.
>>
>>> The siphoning could evacuate a tank quickly I
>>> believe but i do not know how
>>> long it would take.
>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
One other thing that irks me is the terms often thrown about by the news
media. On the video the term "nosedived into a cranberry bog" was used.
Obviously the aircraft damage was not consistent with what I understand
as a nosedive accident.
m-w.com defines "Nosedive" as:
*1* *:* a downward nose-first plunge of a flying object (as an airplane).
Maybe it's debatable, but I would have said "nosed over after an
emergency landing" as he had run out of roll out room before reaching
the water.
Well, what can you do when News folks don't bother to run their script
by even a low time student pilot for accuracy.
Rex
Colorado
Jay Fabian wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian"
> <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Well just to let you know Jim and the passenger are OK.
>
> He is a friend of mine and this is how it happened as he told me last
> night.
>
> He did do a preflight , and had half full tanks in Both wings. He even
> checked the caps before flight, But he thinks he did not put the right
> side one on tight or at all. As it was missing at the landing site?
> While flying he noticed the pilots side gauge had no gas in it, but
> the right tank still had 1/2 left. No Problem they always read diff
> untill settling after landing.
> Then as they headed back a few min later the engine Stopped!
>
> Tried the restart, called in emergency landing , and started the
> landing, at 1,500'. Not too high but better to be in a kitfox than a
> fast plane.
> Made the landing but slid off the Bog into the smallriver that feeds
> the bog.
>
> No prop strike, engine was dead, no major damage, except fiberglass
> and Pride.
>
> Problem is: If the cap of the half full tank had come off, why was
> there gas still in it??? I donot remember if he has the glass fuel
> filters off of each tank?
> I would assume the gas would siphon out fast. Maybe he had two probs,
> clog in line and ran out of gas in the other wing.
> He did not use auto gas with alcohol either, he filled up a week ago
> in NH at an airport with their auto fuel with no alcohol.
> They are still invesigating it.
>
> But they are OK, I think that is the first thing to be concerned with,
> not making jokes about someones life just because you do not know them.
> Lets just learn from the accidents, ok.
>
> Plus , he is a retired fighter pilot, so he also has a few hours under
> his belt and he is not a low timer . Just for extra info.
>
> Jay Fabian
> 4-1200 912UL
>
> PS. What ever was the out come on the auto fuel / alcohol problem?
> we have the up to 10% methanol in our gas here in Mass.
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Well just to let you know Jim and the passenger are OK.
>
> He is a friend of mine and this is how it happened as he told me last
> night.
>
Glad to hear they landed ok with no injuries, hope all is repaired soon.
Jay, can you update us when the cause is discovered? It sounds like one of
those "nice to know" things.
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Turtle deck vibration |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Nelson Goguen" <mino2@verizon.net>
Deke,
I wonder if the glass area in the turtle deck had a slight bow to it, it
wouldn't oilcan and vibrate. I purchased mine, a one piece affair, an it
came with about a one inch crown on it. The instructions said it was to
keep it from vibrating. Can't be sure as I'm still not flying yet.
Fly safe,
Nelson
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Same with me Deke,
>
> The only vibrating part seems to be the turtledeck.
>
> I wonder if the air is seperating over the windscreen,
> or the strakes on the side of the turtledeck are
> vibrating in the turbulence from the draggy pocket
> behind the aft spar. Maybe both. I'd like to attend
> to both myself, when I get the time.
>
> The VG's are easy to do. You can test them by taping
> them down with enough good clear tape. Try them 6"
> between pair centers. The pairs are 1" apart and set
> 17 degrees off in opposite directions, leading edge
> closest. Run a straight edge parallel to the wing
> leading edge 6" back and put the VG backs against it.
> A cardboard template makes it easier to set the 17
> degree angle and distances.
>
> You can adjust the distance back from the leading edge
> and test fly to get the best results. Somewhere
> between 4" and 8" back should do it IMHO.
>
> I expect to retire at the end of the year and maybe
> fly all for fun then. :-) Then I can do a lot more
> of this fun testing stuff. Not there just yet.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
>
>> My S5 has always been a pretty smooth flyer.
>> However, one thing that has always bothered me and
>> is causing some wear is the turtle deck vibrating at
>> cruise speeds, presumably due to some turbulent air.
>> I can't hear it, but I can see it in the rear view
>> mirror and the vibration is causing wear on the
>> contact surfaces. I am thinking that perhaps some
>> vortex generators might smooth out the air flow and
>> help to either solve or ameliorate the problem. I
>> think it might work, but I don't know where to place
>> them. Has anybody tried this with any success?
>> Deke
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: More additions |
Hi Lowell, I added my info a few days ago but have not seen my name on any list,
so here it is again just in case it was missed:-
Don Stevenson
Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Email, shericom@rogers.com
M4/1200 Speedster
Tail wheel
912UL- 3 blade wooden prop
Build about 75% completed (in covering stage)
----- Original Message ----
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2006 7:16:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: More additions
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I added the following:
Werner Keiper
Joel Mapes
Jerry Kohles
Harold Flynn
Lowell
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox List Re: Kitfox runs out of gas |
Message 34
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
We had a Piper get caught in a wake behind a 767 ( I thank it might have
been something else)here in Kansas City about 8 or 9 months ago. On the
news report they said that " it was heard shifting gears and then it fell
out of the sky" . I'm still waiting for some one to show me where the gear
shift lever. It seems to be the case that most media outlets are more
interested in saying something fast rather then something correct or
intelligent.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex <gypsybee@copper.net>
One other thing that irks me is the terms often thrown about by the news
media. On the video the term "nosedived into a cranberry bog" was used.
Obviously the aircraft damage was not consistent with what I understand
as a nosedive accident.
m-w.com defines "Nosedive" as:
*1* *:* a downward nose-first plunge of a flying object (as an airplane).
Maybe it's debatable, but I would have said "nosed over after an
emergency landing" as he had run out of roll out room before reaching
the water.
Well, what can you do when News folks don't bother to run their script
by even a low time student pilot for accuracy.
Rex
Colorado
Jay Fabian wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian"
> <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Well just to let you know Jim and the passenger are OK.
>
> He is a friend of mine and this is how it happened as he told me last
> night.
>
> He did do a preflight , and had half full tanks in Both wings. He even
> checked the caps before flight, But he thinks he did not put the right
> side one on tight or at all. As it was missing at the landing site?
> While flying he noticed the pilots side gauge had no gas in it, but
> the right tank still had 1/2 left. No Problem they always read diff
> untill settling after landing.
> Then as they headed back a few min later the engine Stopped!
>
> Tried the restart, called in emergency landing , and started the
> landing, at 1,500'. Not too high but better to be in a kitfox than a
> fast plane.
> Made the landing but slid off the Bog into the smallriver that feeds
> the bog.
>
> No prop strike, engine was dead, no major damage, except fiberglass
> and Pride.
>
> Problem is: If the cap of the half full tank had come off, why was
> there gas still in it??? I donot remember if he has the glass fuel
> filters off of each tank?
> I would assume the gas would siphon out fast. Maybe he had two probs,
> clog in line and ran out of gas in the other wing.
> He did not use auto gas with alcohol either, he filled up a week ago
> in NH at an airport with their auto fuel with no alcohol.
> They are still invesigating it.
>
> But they are OK, I think that is the first thing to be concerned with,
> not making jokes about someones life just because you do not know them.
> Lets just learn from the accidents, ok.
>
> Plus , he is a retired fighter pilot, so he also has a few hours under
> his belt and he is not a low timer . Just for extra info.
>
> Jay Fabian
> 4-1200 912UL
>
> PS. What ever was the out come on the auto fuel / alcohol problem?
> we have the up to 10% methanol in our gas here in Mass.
Message 35
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|
Subject: | Re: Name Check - Airplane type |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Model IV 1200
912UL
Luis Rodriguez
824KF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60458#60458
Message 36
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
Glad all is well with the pilot and passenger. Now to reilerate on the fuel caps.
They are the last things I check before I get in the plane. In the last
month I've had one cap that was off, forgot I put it in the window next to where
the pin for the wing goes. Now this one will scare you guys, I had a cap
that was not clipped on the second clip, if that makes sense. When I check the
cap I always grap the vent end, this does two things, makes sure the cap is
on right, forward, and if it's solid on the wiggle test, then both clips are secure.
This cap wasn't, scared me, but then I was on the ground so all was well,
removed the cap, reinstalled and went flying.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60461#60461
Message 37
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <john@leptron.com>
Jay,
Ok, to tell this story I have to admit that I, a man, perfect as I am, made
a mistake..... once, 2 years ago I flew out of the primitive area and
fueled at Salmon. While self fueling, I was talking, and well shooting the
bull. Some one else pulled up a bit close for me and I hurried to finish. I
remember that I left the passenger cap a bit loose or something. I was going
to go back to it after I put the hose down. Ok, I did not. After take off I
listened to other guys talk about debris on the runway. One asked what color
it was, one asked what it looked like, some one said it had a goose neck on
it and was chrome..... Duh, at the same time my fuel system was alarming
with bells that I had low pressure. Investigation showed almost 0 lbs of
pressure. My wife said there was a blue cloud on her side... ok crap... we
announced the part was ours and were returning, lord don't let us back
fire.... we lost 8 gal. In about 10 minutes, it sucked the fuel from the
wing with the cap on, and lowered the pressure to the point to alarm my
gages..... I assume this has happened today ...again..
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Fabian
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian"
<experimental208nd@comcast.net>
Hi Guys,
Well just to let you know Jim and the passenger are OK.
He is a friend of mine and this is how it happened as he told me last night.
He did do a preflight , and had half full tanks in Both wings. He even
checked the caps before flight, But he thinks he did not put the right side
one on tight or at all. As it was missing at the landing site?
While flying he noticed the pilots side gauge had no gas in it, but the
right tank still had 1/2 left. No Problem they always read diff untill
settling after landing.
Then as they headed back a few min later the engine Stopped!
Tried the restart, called in emergency landing , and started the landing, at
1,500'. Not too high but better to be in a kitfox than a fast plane.
Made the landing but slid off the Bog into the smallriver that feeds the
bog.
No prop strike, engine was dead, no major damage, except fiberglass and
Pride.
Problem is: If the cap of the half full tank had come off, why was there
gas still in it??? I donot remember if he has the glass fuel filters off of
each tank?
I would assume the gas would siphon out fast. Maybe he had two probs, clog
in line and ran out of gas in the other wing.
He did not use auto gas with alcohol either, he filled up a week ago in NH
at an airport with their auto fuel with no alcohol.
They are still invesigating it.
But they are OK, I think that is the first thing to be concerned with, not
making jokes about someones life just because you do not know them.
Lets just learn from the accidents, ok.
Plus , he is a retired fighter pilot, so he also has a few hours under his
belt and he is not a low timer . Just for extra info.
Jay Fabian
4-1200 912UL
PS. What ever was the out come on the auto fuel / alcohol problem? we have
the up to 10% methanol in our gas here in Mass.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video clip
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I lost 3 gal in 45 minutes when checking my gas cap
> seals for leaks. I flew them on their normal sides,
> then swapped them. The fuel moved from the well
> sealed tank to the poorly sealed tank and leaked out.
> Tanks were less than 3/4s full. The pressurized tank
> went down to 2 gal.
>
> I am sure a bigger leak or a missing cap could drain
> it much faster.
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- Dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>
>> If so, then perhaps wing tank caps that came off
>> or were not on in flight.
>
>> The siphoning could evacuate a tank quickly I
>> believe but i do not know how
>> long it would take.
>
>> Dave
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 38
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|
Subject: | Re: Turtle deck vibration |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I got mine from LP Aeroplastics, and it is domed and does not vibrate.
Like you said, Nelson, it has about a 1" dome to the "glass". This
required that I remove the hinge, therefore the whole 'deck has to be
dealt with as an unbendable whole and not hinging it any more....but it
doesn't leak, either.
Lynn
Lynn
On Friday, September 8, 2006, at 05:03 PM, Nelson Goguen wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Nelson Goguen" <mino2@verizon.net>
>
> Deke,
>
> I wonder if the glass area in the turtle deck had a slight bow to it,
> it wouldn't oilcan and vibrate. I purchased mine, a one piece affair,
> an it came with about a one inch crown on it. The instructions said
> it was to keep it from vibrating. Can't be sure as I'm still not
> flying yet.
>
> Fly safe,
>
> Nelson
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader"
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Same with me Deke,
>>
>> The only vibrating part seems to be the turtledeck.
>>
>> I wonder if the air is seperating over the windscreen,
>> or the strakes on the side of the turtledeck are
>> vibrating in the turbulence from the draggy pocket
>> behind the aft spar. Maybe both. I'd like to attend
>> to both myself, when I get the time.
>>
>> The VG's are easy to do. You can test them by taping
>> them down with enough good clear tape. Try them 6"
>> between pair centers. The pairs are 1" apart and set
>> 17 degrees off in opposite directions, leading edge
>> closest. Run a straight edge parallel to the wing
>> leading edge 6" back and put the VG backs against it.
>> A cardboard template makes it easier to set the 17
>> degree angle and distances.
>>
>> You can adjust the distance back from the leading edge
>> and test fly to get the best results. Somewhere
>> between 4" and 8" back should do it IMHO.
>>
>> I expect to retire at the end of the year and maybe
>> fly all for fun then. :-) Then I can do a lot more
>> of this fun testing stuff. Not there just yet.
>>
>> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>>
>> --- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
>>
>>> My S5 has always been a pretty smooth flyer.
>>> However, one thing that has always bothered me and
>>> is causing some wear is the turtle deck vibrating at
>>> cruise speeds, presumably due to some turbulent air.
>>> I can't hear it, but I can see it in the rear view
>>> mirror and the vibration is causing wear on the
>>> contact surfaces. I am thinking that perhaps some
>>> vortex generators might smooth out the air flow and
>>> help to either solve or ameliorate the problem. I
>>> think it might work, but I don't know where to place
>>> them. Has anybody tried this with any success?
>>> Deke
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 39
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|
Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
John, what an experience. Do you have seperate shut off valves for each tank?
I do and I usually pic a tank to run off of and shut the other one off. I wonder
if that would prevent problems by turning off one tank and running on the
other if the cap was missing. One thing I am serious about doing is putting
a low fuel alarm on my header tank. Seems a wise thing to do now.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60486#60486
Message 40
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|
Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Thanks for the heads up . Very Glad both are ok . I do agree this is no
place to make jokes but to learn and not condemn . Hopefully he will have
the lady back in the air soon .
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 But soon to be Subbie
TD and Straight Floats
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on!
>
>
>
Message 41
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|
Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48" <neflyer48@cableone.net>
I ran off without a gas cap a couple of years ago. After about 20 miles the
capless tank was running over and the tank with the cap on showed empty. I
made it to my destination OK. I'm sure the reason the capless tank ran over
is that the tank with the cap on is pressurized from the forward tube and
forced the gas over to the tank with no cap. (I don't have shut-off valves
between them).
Jerry Kohles M3,912
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd@COMCAST.NET>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian"
> <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Well just to let you know Jim and the passenger are OK.
>
> He is a friend of mine and this is how it happened as he told me last
> night.
>
> He did do a preflight , and had half full tanks in Both wings. He even
> checked the caps before flight, But he thinks he did not put the right
> side one on tight or at all. As it was missing at the landing site?
> While flying he noticed the pilots side gauge had no gas in it, but the
> right tank still had 1/2 left. No Problem they always read diff untill
> settling after landing.
> Then as they headed back a few min later the engine Stopped!
>
> Tried the restart, called in emergency landing , and started the landing,
> at 1,500'. Not too high but better to be in a kitfox than a fast plane.
> Made the landing but slid off the Bog into the smallriver that feeds the
> bog.
>
> No prop strike, engine was dead, no major damage, except fiberglass and
> Pride.
>
> Problem is: If the cap of the half full tank had come off, why was there
> gas still in it??? I donot remember if he has the glass fuel filters off
> of each tank?
> I would assume the gas would siphon out fast. Maybe he had two probs, clog
> in line and ran out of gas in the other wing.
> He did not use auto gas with alcohol either, he filled up a week ago in NH
> at an airport with their auto fuel with no alcohol.
> They are still invesigating it.
>
> But they are OK, I think that is the first thing to be concerned with, not
> making jokes about someones life just because you do not know them.
> Lets just learn from the accidents, ok.
>
> Plus , he is a retired fighter pilot, so he also has a few hours under his
> belt and he is not a low timer . Just for extra info.
>
> Jay Fabian
> 4-1200 912UL
>
> PS. What ever was the out come on the auto fuel / alcohol problem? we
> have the up to 10% methanol in our gas here in Mass.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 2:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas - News plus video
> clip
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I lost 3 gal in 45 minutes when checking my gas cap
>> seals for leaks. I flew them on their normal sides,
>> then swapped them. The fuel moved from the well
>> sealed tank to the poorly sealed tank and leaked out.
>> Tanks were less than 3/4s full. The pressurized tank
>> went down to 2 gal.
>>
>> I am sure a bigger leak or a missing cap could drain
>> it much faster.
>>
>> Kurt S. S-5
>>
>> --- Dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If so, then perhaps wing tank caps that came off
>>> or were not on in flight.
>>
>>> The siphoning could evacuate a tank quickly I
>>> believe but i do not know how
>>> long it would take.
>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 42
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|
Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
OK OK OK i will tell one on Myself After refuleing the nose tank on my Mod
2 i set the cap on , then proceeded to fill the wing tank I did put that one
on good and tite and the vent pointing forward . A friend came by and we
talked for 5 min or so then i got in started up and taxied out on the take
off 150 into the roll the front cap left the plane and rolled to the side of
runway and the gas was being siphoned out up and over the windshield faster
than i could get her shut down . I thought she would burn with all that gas
dripping into and on the exhaust but some one was looking out for em that
day and i survived . after new windshield .
Preflight now says fuel first check caps on Last part of preflight says
Check fuel caps on . I think even i get complacent in my daily life and
things i do . so a written reminder is good .
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
kitfox 2 N718pd
582 Soon to be Subbie
TD and Straight Floats
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Name Check - Airplane type |
Model 4-1200
912UL
Tail Dragger
94HG
350 hrs
wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut"
Model IV 1200
912UL
Luis Rodriguez
824KF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60458#60458
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Subject: | Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <john@leptron.com>
Kitfox mike,
I firmly believe if I had a vent from the header tank, I would have gone
down with fuel in the tanks. I have since, been very wary of my fuel
systems; we lost several good people from our list the same way years ago.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
John, what an experience. Do you have seperate shut off valves for each
tank? I do and I usually pic a tank to run off of and shut the other one
off. I wonder if that would prevent problems by turning off one tank and
running on the other if the cap was missing. One thing I am serious about
doing is putting a low fuel alarm on my header tank. Seems a wise thing to
do now.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60486#60486
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Subject: | Please add my kitfox to the List |
Kitfox Series V N77LR 420TT
Lycoming O-235
Wim Huisman
Lelystad Netherlands
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