---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/10/06: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:36 AM - Re: 582 RPM Variation (Don Smythe) 2. 04:38 AM - Re: 582 RPM Variation (Torgeir Mortensen) 3. 04:54 AM - Re: Turtle deck vibration (Fox5flyer) 4. 05:04 AM - Re: Turtle deck vibration (Fox5flyer) 5. 05:15 AM - Re: Turtle deck vibration (Dave) 6. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (Noel Loveys) 7. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (Don Smythe) 8. 06:40 AM - Low level fuel indicators (HMDOUD) 9. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (Randy Daughenbaugh) 10. 06:56 AM - Polyfiber chemicals in Canada (Dave G.) 11. 07:09 AM - Question on oil (Dee Young) 12. 07:20 AM - Re: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada (Stan Bearup) 13. 07:30 AM - Re: Ethanol damage to fuel tanks ? (A Smith) 14. 07:46 AM - Re: Low level fuel indicators (PWilson) 15. 07:50 AM - Don's Lawnmower. (Dave G.) 16. 07:52 AM - Re: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada (Dave G.) 17. 08:18 AM - Re: Ethanol damage to fuel tanks ? (PWilson) 18. 08:18 AM - Re: Question on oil (PWilson) 19. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! (Lowell Fitt) 20. 08:52 AM - Re: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada (Dave) 21. 08:55 AM - Re: Question on oil (Lowell Fitt) 22. 08:56 AM - Re: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada (Dave) 23. 10:01 AM - spark plugs (Glenn Horne) 24. 10:37 AM - Re: spark plugs (Dave) 25. 11:05 AM - Re: spark plugs (Dave G.) 26. 11:30 AM - Re: Recent purchase questions (Rex) 27. 11:37 AM - Re: Question on oil (Dee Young) 28. 01:19 PM - Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Willem Huisman) 29. 01:57 PM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Don Smythe) 30. 01:58 PM - Re: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada (Donald STEVENSON) 31. 02:34 PM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Willem Huisman) 32. 02:43 PM - Re: spark plugs (Glenn Horne) 33. 02:49 PM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Fox5flyer) 34. 03:59 PM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Don Smythe) 35. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Don Smythe) 36. 05:11 PM - Re: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada (Noel Loveys) 37. 05:12 PM - Re: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada (Noel Loveys) 38. 05:44 PM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Dave) 39. 05:58 PM - Fuel starvation & Mike Harter (Fox5flyer) 40. 05:59 PM - Header Tank (dcsfoto) 41. 06:29 PM - RE/MAX of Midland, Michigan - Balloon Festival (Fox5flyer) 42. 06:35 PM - Re: spark plugs (Dave) 43. 07:05 PM - Synthetic oils (John Anderson) 44. 07:09 PM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (John Anderson) 45. 07:21 PM - RE/MAX of Midland, Michigan - Balloon Festival (Rexster) 46. 07:22 PM - RE/MAX of Midland, Michigan - Balloon Festival (Rexster) 47. 07:39 PM - Re: Header Tank (kirkhull) 48. 08:02 PM - Re: Header Tank (Bradley M Webb) 49. 08:41 PM - Re: Header Tank (Ron Liebmann) 50. 08:55 PM - Re: Fuel starvation & Mike Harter (Les Chambers) 51. 09:12 PM - Re: 582 RPM Variation (Guy Buchanan) 52. 09:12 PM - Re: 582 RPM Variation (Guy Buchanan) 53. 10:33 PM - Re: Header Tank (flier) 54. 10:37 PM - Re: Header Tank (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:30 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM Variation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" >>Make sure you don't have a slipping clutch like Don S. >>had a while back. His was worse, but yours could be >>just starting. > > Any idea how you check this? Guy, You need to pull the front cover off the "C" box (have new gasket ready). There is a large nut in there that holds a cone shaped sleeve on a shaft. Remove the nut and examine the sleeve for any signs of slipping (scoring). Once you've done that, degrease it all and reassemble with a special locktite and retorque nut to 250 ft lbs. (I think). There is a Rotax bulletin that covers all this. My hardest part was finding a torque wrench that would do 250 ft lbs. That was quite a hoss. I always referred to my problem as "surging". What was happening was, I would get up to about 4500 RPM's and the sleeve would slip. That caused the prop to unload and the engine would rev to the outer limits. As soon as this would happen, there would be a great amount of heat developed in the sleeve and it would seize then the prop would be back in the picture and RPM's would settle out. It was intermittent and in short burst. Appeared to be surging. Having said all that, I always have to stay on the throttle to maintain my RPM's. I think a lot of it is just the way it is on a 582. Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM Variation From: "Torgeir Mortensen" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Torgeir Mortensen" Hi Guy, Yes you have to pull the aft. part of the engine to check this, however, there is more to be checked before removing the engine. Will the engine do the same at 5400 RPM, and at 6200 RPM?? If the ignition "pick up" plate is become loose, this RPM fluctuating will occurs (more or less) in the whole operating band. Also, -since your AC is relatively new, is this something that shows up all that sudden, or is this a problem that's been there since day one? Just as an example, a fluctuating pressure inside the cowl can create engine rpm changes, but rarely happen. The carb. cross venting etc. Try to isolate if this is fuel, ignition or prop. releated. Good luck. Torgeir. On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 05:51:06 +0200, Guy Buchanan wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > > At 06:02 PM 9/9/2006, you wrote: >> Make sure you don't have a slipping clutch like Don S. >> had a while back. His was worse, but yours could be >> just starting. > > Any idea how you check this? > > >> Next guess is a lose timing adjustment. My old 2 >> cycle would handle a mixture problem better than a >> timing problem. > > I assume you mean that the pick-ups are loose on their screws. I have to > pull the back of the engine apart to look at these, don't I? > > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > Do not archive > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:21 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Thanks for the feedback Dave. Do you have a url for Harrison Designs? Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > > Deke , > > I have a vibration at run up on turtle deck but nothing in flight. I > have Vgs in shop but have not used yet. > Kitfox IV works good now with full elevator authority and great slow speed > performance. But my Kitfox is about 550 lbs so the weight helps alot. > I think I will try them some time as well. I have heard that a few vgs > placed on the back of the windshield near the turtle deck will stop the > vibrations. > > I have harrison designs ones here . You can get I think 100 of them for ? > under 100$ ithink. Plus just try with 2 sided carpet tape. > > Dave ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:26 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Thanks Kurt. I definitely don't want to lose 5 kts, nor even 1 kt if I can get away with it. However, I can probably live with one kt if it has a good enough trade off. Lowering stall speed is always a good thing and making the airplane more controllable close to stall is equally good. Actually my S5 is pretty good at low speeds, but it's always better if I can gain a little more without the top end loss. I know, there's almost always a trade off somewhere. One just has to decide what one can live with. Deke From: "kurt schrader" > Hi Deke, > When I tested the VG's on my plane 2 years back, I > found that the max speed varied a bit with position. > Closer to the leading edge seemed to have no speed > loss, while further back did cost a few knots. This > is why I suggested a max of 6" back. My worst loss in > max speed was about 5 knots on a further aft position. > > The VG stalls were much more controlled in that I > could cross control or use considerable rudder and > still fly the plane in the stall without uncontrolled > fall off to a side. That alone made the VG's a good > deal to me. If you inadvertently stall it, nothing > real scarry happens and recovery is even easier than > usual for a KF. It makes slow flight and short field > work much more secure. > > Unfortunately I got no significant reduction in stall > speed from them. I'll test again in the future with > some enhanced elevator authority and see if that > helps. > > But I wouldn't let any worry about cruise speed loss > stop you. You can test several positions and use the > one that works best without more than a knot > difference in max speed. > > Now cleaning the wing.... that will be a little > harder. > > Kurt S. > > --- Fox5flyer wrote: > > .......I'd like to do the VGs across the whole > > wing, but I'm concerned about the loss of speed. > > That's about the only thing that's held me back. > > Deke > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:30 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" http://www.landshorter.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:53 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > Thanks for the feedback Dave. Do you have a url for Harrison Designs? > Deke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Turtle deck vibration > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" >> >> Deke , >> >> I have a vibration at run up on turtle deck but nothing in flight. I >> have Vgs in shop but have not used yet. >> Kitfox IV works good now with full elevator authority and great slow > speed >> performance. But my Kitfox is about 550 lbs so the weight helps alot. >> I think I will try them some time as well. I have heard that a few vgs >> placed on the back of the windshield near the turtle deck will stop the >> vibrations. >> >> I have harrison designs ones here . You can get I think 100 of them for > ? >> under 100$ ithink. Plus just try with 2 sided carpet tape. >> >> Dave > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:24 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" It is true that the 100LL is not a volatile as the MOGAS therefore won't vapour lock as easily. Your riding mower has the tank in an enclosed area directly over the engine where the gas can get very warm. The plane on the other hand has the tanks in the wings and header remote form engine heat. All I can think of is on my plane the vent form my header is connected to the right wing tank if the right tank were to lose it's cap I could see how both the right tank and the header could be siphoned very quickly. Once the plane comes to a stop fuel form the left tank could then equalize making it look as if there was fuel in all three tanks at the moment of a fuel outage. I don't have a low fuel warning light on my header tank but I'm seriously looking into it. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Don Smythe > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 11:39 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > This might not apply but, is along the same subject line. I > have a riding > lawnmower and the fuel system is "similar" to a kitfox. That > is, has a > large tank above the engine and is gravity fed to the engine. > Now, my > lawnmower will run 1/2 of the fuel in the tank and then, go > dead (out of > fuel). This is observed by the completely empty inline fuel > filter. It's > not the vented cap because it happens with the cap off????? > If I pull the > tank side line off the filter, fuel again starts to flow from > the tank, > refills the filter and off she runs again??? It has to be > some sort of > vapor lock and wonder if some sort of similar situation could > happen to a > Kitfox system. BTW, the lawnmower will use the whole tank if > filled with > 100LL. 100LL tends not to vapor lock like autofuel. I spend > hours and > weeks testing my Fox fuel system to see what would conditions > could cause > flow restrictions etc. This lawnmower system has me stumped. > > Don Smythe > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:37 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" I remember my old buddy Michael Harter (Rest his sole) took off twice not once without a fuel cap. One time he left it way up in Eastern Canada and it was mailed back to him from the airport (bent). I ended up giving him both of mine (from my kit) since I used recessed fillers. I do not remember him ever saying that he lost a significant amount of fuel??? On the trip to Canada I seem to remember him having to purchase a replacement cap at the auto store when he noticed the original missing. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > It is true that the 100LL is not a volatile as the MOGAS therefore won't > vapour lock as easily. Your riding mower has the tank in an enclosed area > directly over the engine where the gas can get very warm. The plane on > the > other hand has the tanks in the wings and header remote form engine heat. > All I can think of is on my plane the vent form my header is connected to > the right wing tank if the right tank were to lose it's cap I could see > how > both the right tank and the header could be siphoned very quickly. Once > the > plane comes to a stop fuel form the left tank could then equalize making > it > look as if there was fuel in all three tanks at the moment of a fuel > outage. > I don't have a low fuel warning light on my header tank but I'm seriously > looking into it. > > Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Don Smythe >> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 11:39 AM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! >> >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" >> >> This might not apply but, is along the same subject line. I >> have a riding >> lawnmower and the fuel system is "similar" to a kitfox. That >> is, has a >> large tank above the engine and is gravity fed to the engine. >> Now, my >> lawnmower will run 1/2 of the fuel in the tank and then, go >> dead (out of >> fuel). This is observed by the completely empty inline fuel >> filter. It's >> not the vented cap because it happens with the cap off????? >> If I pull the >> tank side line off the filter, fuel again starts to flow from >> the tank, >> refills the filter and off she runs again??? It has to be >> some sort of >> vapor lock and wonder if some sort of similar situation could >> happen to a >> Kitfox system. BTW, the lawnmower will use the whole tank if >> filled with >> 100LL. 100LL tends not to vapor lock like autofuel. I spend >> hours and >> weeks testing my Fox fuel system to see what would conditions >> could cause >> flow restrictions etc. This lawnmower system has me stumped. >> >> Don Smythe >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:53 AM PST US From: "HMDOUD" Subject: Kitfox-List: Low level fuel indicators Thanks to you Kitfoxers, who sent emails concerning a low level fuel indicator for my Kitfox 4, poly header tank. Below are several suppliers of low level fuel indicators, that I'll pass on to the group, for those folks wanting the low level fuel indicator. Awfully good insurrance ............. www.blueskyaviation.net http://www.murlewilliamsaviation.com Wicks, ACS 6905-400 $20.60 Sensor ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:57 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Noel, I have to disagree with you a little bit on your assertion that BOTH the header tank and the right wing tank would be emptied quickly if you lost the cap on the right side. In your scenario of losing the right cap, low pressure will start to pull gas from the right tank. BUT, the header tank will not empty until all the gas from the left tank is pulled through the header tank. Even then much of the gas in the header tank will be available to the engine. In the case of losing the left cap, it is possible that the "unported" vent line in the right tank will clear of fuel quickly and thus let vapors go into the header tank and push gas up the feed line to the left tank, it will not empty the header tank since the vent is from the top of the header tank. The right tank will keep feeding fuel to the header tank until the right tank is empty. Then after you have burned the fuel left in the header tank, it will get quiet. This, with your left tank possibly holding lots of fuel. One thing to worry about in the case of losing either cap is that the lower pressure in the fuel system makes vapor lock much more likely. Randy - Now checking caps as part of preflight! I agree with you that Don's lawn mower problem sounds like vapor lock. . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:41 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" It is true that the 100LL is not a volatile as the MOGAS therefore won't vapour lock as easily. Your riding mower has the tank in an enclosed area directly over the engine where the gas can get very warm. The plane on the other hand has the tanks in the wings and header remote form engine heat. All I can think of is on my plane the vent form my header is connected to the right wing tank if the right tank were to lose it's cap I could see how both the right tank and the header could be siphoned very quickly. Once the plane comes to a stop fuel form the left tank could then equalize making it look as if there was fuel in all three tanks at the moment of a fuel outage. I don't have a low fuel warning light on my header tank but I'm seriously looking into it. Noel ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:58 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I'll need to order soon, and I wondered where others have purchased. It strikes me as the kind of stuff that won't travel across the border well. Any experiences? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:04 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Question on oil Have been considering a change in oil. The engine is a four stroke air cooled and manufacturer suggests using an Automotive type engine oil meeting SAE SE grade or above. It also goes on to say MIL-L-46152B Spec. is recommended??? I have been using Aero Shell 15W-50 since the engine was new. Winter is coming and the Aero Shell is hard to turn the engine in the cold. That is the reason I am considering the change. I have been looking at the synthetics. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Thanks Dee Young N345DY Model II Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:38 AM PST US From: "Stan Bearup" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada Dave, Below are the Canadian distributors of PolyFiber supplies that I took from the PolyFiber web site. Stan GOULET AlRCRAFT SUPPLY 59 Eagle Drive Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R2R 1V4 204-783-8512 800-665-8662 (Canada only) www.gouletaircraft.com 48 Airport Road Edmonton, Alberta Canada T5G 0W7 780-452-4242 THE AERO MART 6790 Davand Drive, Unit 7 Mississauga, Ontario Canada L5T 2G5 905-565-0737 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I'll need to order soon, and I wondered where others have purchased. It strikes me as the kind of stuff that won't travel across the border well. Any experiences? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:37 AM PST US From: "A Smith" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol damage to fuel tanks ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "A Smith" I have had 3 boats. The fuel lines were why no fuel containing ethanol could be used. Nothing was mentioned about the tank. I have not heard that ethanol will harm fiberglass. Albert 5TD ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:59 AM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low level fuel indicators And the low tech unit http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_search_results.php/search=ZndzLTE ~$30+ shipping And the light http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_search_results.php/search=Z3ctMzI2 ~$10+shipping It does not flash nor is it an LED but a quick search will find yo a flashing LED light. Murle's unit is also good but plumbing is more complex and it costs $95 + shipping The Blue Sky site does not have an on line catalog? Contact John at www.kitfoxaircraftllc.com to see if they sell the original Skystar unit which was optical and required the header tank to be painted black. Regards, Paul ================= At 07:40 AM 9/10/2006, you wrote: >Thanks to you Kitfoxers, who sent emails concerning a low level fuel >indicator for my Kitfox 4, poly header tank. Below are several >suppliers of low level fuel indicators, that I'll pass on to the >group, for those folks wanting the low level fuel >indicator. Awfully good insurrance ............. > > >www.blueskyaviation.net > > >http://www.murlewilliamsaviation.com > > >Wicks, ACS 6905-400 $20.60 Sensor > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:03 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Kitfox-List: Don's Lawnmower. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." Don, not kifox related but if the system is strictly gravity, it sounds like the float bowl vent might be plugged. If there's a place to vent any vapour then gravity feed sytems can cope with a lot. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:59 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada Thanks. I was actually looking for experiences with dealers. Neither of those two have prices on their sites and I will have to call to get that information. If others have had no trouble ordering in from the U.S. that's also worth knowing. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Bearup To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada Dave, Below are the Canadian distributors of PolyFiber supplies that I took from the PolyFiber web site. Stan GOULET AlRCRAFT SUPPLY 59 Eagle Drive Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R2R 1V4 204-783-8512 800-665-8662 (Canada only) www.gouletaircraft.com 48 Airport Road Edmonton, Alberta Canada T5G 0W7 780-452-4242 THE AERO MART 6790 Davand Drive, Unit 7 Mississauga, Ontario Canada L5T 2G5 905-565-0737 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I'll need to order soon, and I wondered where others have purchased. It strikes me as the kind of stuff that won't travel across the border well. Any experiences? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:39 AM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol damage to fuel tanks ? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson Alcohol is a solvent and very few resins used in fuel tanks are compatible. Maybe your boat tanks have been internally coated? Of course the glass in not affected, just the resin that holds it all together. Check the archives for many-many discussions on this issue. Paul ======================= At 08:30 AM 9/10/2006, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "A Smith" > >I have had 3 boats. The fuel lines were why no fuel containing >ethanol could be used. Nothing was mentioned about the tank. I have >not heard that ethanol will harm fiberglass. >Albert >5TD ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:39 AM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question on oil --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson What kind of engine? 15w50 is very heavy duty oil like I use in my diesel truck. 15w50 is used in air cooled airplane engines that run hot and have significant oil thinning at the high temps. What are your oil temps at the high end for a worst case senerio? How does your oil temp look under the high temp situation? Do you have a sealed RG battery? In any event synthetic is better for high temps and cold cranking but its use depends on the fuel you are using and how much you want to spend for more frequent changes of the pricey oil. Paul ================ At 08:08 AM 9/10/2006, you wrote: >Have been considering a change in oil. The engine is a four stroke >air cooled and manufacturer suggests using an Automotive type engine >oil meeting SAE SE grade or above. It also goes on to say >MIL-L-46152B Spec. is recommended??? I have been using Aero Shell >15W-50 since the engine was new. Winter is coming and the Aero Shell >is hard to turn the engine in the cold. That is the reason I am >considering the change. I have been looking at the synthetics. I >would very much appreciate your thoughts on this matter. > >Thanks > >Dee Young >N345DY Model II > > >Do not archive. > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:11 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Lots of theoretical stuff here, Why not a volunteer test pilot type to give it a try :-). Actually the scnerio presented would suggest to me - correct me if I am misreading this - that the missing fuel cap (left tank as described) would suck gas from the right tank (right tank being pressurized by the cap pito pressure) and if I am reading this correctly, the first sign of missing fuel would then be a drop in the sight gauge on the right tank. When I flew the three hours with my right cap askew - only one tang attached - the lost fuel came almost exclusively from the right tank, sucking it to almost empty. The left tank showed some fuel loss as well, but I typically burn preferentially from the left tank for the much discussed unknown for sure reason. I would propose that the primary loss of fuel would be due to the low pressure at the top of the wing near the filler neck rather than any pressure generated from the forward facing vent on the other fuel cap. At the time I was burning about 8 gallons in a three hour run - throttled back. Lowell Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:48 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" > > > Noel, > I have to disagree with you a little bit on your assertion that BOTH the > header tank and the right wing tank would be emptied quickly if you lost > the > cap on the right side. > > In your scenario of losing the right cap, low pressure will start to pull > gas from the right tank. BUT, the header tank will not empty until all > the > gas from the left tank is pulled through the header tank. Even then much > of > the gas in the header tank will be available to the engine. > > In the case of losing the left cap, it is possible that the "unported" > vent > line in the right tank will clear of fuel quickly and thus let vapors go > into the header tank and push gas up the feed line to the left tank, it > will > not empty the header tank since the vent is from the top of the header > tank. > The right tank will keep feeding fuel to the header tank until the right > tank is empty. Then after you have burned the fuel left in the header > tank, > it will get quiet. This, with your left tank possibly holding lots of > fuel. > > > One thing to worry about in the case of losing either cap is that the > lower > pressure in the fuel system makes vapor lock much more likely. > > Randy - Now checking caps as part of preflight! > > I agree with you that Don's lawn mower problem sounds like vapor lock. > > > . > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:41 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Runs out of gas Please read on! > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > It is true that the 100LL is not a volatile as the MOGAS therefore won't > vapour lock as easily. Your riding mower has the tank in an enclosed area > directly over the engine where the gas can get very warm. The plane on > the > other hand has the tanks in the wings and header remote form engine heat. > All I can think of is on my plane the vent form my header is connected to > the right wing tank if the right tank were to lose it's cap I could see > how > both the right tank and the header could be siphoned very quickly. Once > the > plane comes to a stop fuel form the left tank could then equalize making > it > look as if there was fuel in all three tanks at the moment of a fuel > outage. > I don't have a low fuel warning light on my header tank but I'm seriously > looking into it. > > Noel > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:02 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada Hi Dave , try THE AERO MART 6790 Davand Drive, Unit 7 Mississauga, Ontario Canada L5T 2G5 905-565-0737 Also , AircraftSpruce is coming to Toronto. I am not sure where or when but it was scheduled for Sept 2006 I think . I no wonder Leavens prices have dropped 30 to 40% i have notice in last 6 months :) ABOUT TIME !! ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:56 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I'll need to order soon, and I wondered where others have purchased. It strikes me as the kind of stuff that won't travel across the border well. Any experiences? ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:09 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question on oil --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Dee, The value in a full synthetic is the higher temps they can tolerate, the hit is their inability to keep the lead residues in suspension. If you fly strictly with car gas, the synthetic should be fine. If you occasionally use 100LL then you might want to avoid synthetics. This from the Rotax oil recommendation bulletin. The Rotax 912 series engines use the same oil in the engine as well as the gear box so they recommend a motorcycle engine oil with the gear additive. If your engine is similar, you might want to check the Rotax owners association website for info. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dee Young" Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Question on oil Have been considering a change in oil. The engine is a four stroke air cooled and manufacturer suggests using an Automotive type engine oil meeting SAE SE grade or above. It also goes on to say MIL-L-46152B Spec. is recommended??? I have been using Aero Shell 15W-50 since the engine was new. Winter is coming and the Aero Shell is hard to turn the engine in the cold. That is the reason I am considering the change. I have been looking at the synthetics. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Thanks Dee Young N345DY Model II Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:24 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I just replied before seeing this message. You will likely not get shipped from USA. And you will most likely pay a hazardous shipping fee in Canada as well. I jusdt got in 2 quarts of rand o bond from Leavens and had no haz fees but it was just part of another order. I find that US orders are sometimes mosre expensive after you pay exchange and the huge broker fees that the carriwer dings you . Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada Thanks. I was actually looking for experiences with dealers. Neither of those two have prices on their sites and I will have to call to get that information. If others have had no trouble ordering in from the U.S. that's also worth knowing. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Bearup To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada Dave, Below are the Canadian distributors of PolyFiber supplies that I took from the PolyFiber web site. Stan GOULET AlRCRAFT SUPPLY 59 Eagle Drive Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R2R 1V4 204-783-8512 800-665-8662 (Canada only) www.gouletaircraft.com 48 Airport Road Edmonton, Alberta Canada T5G 0W7 780-452-4242 THE AERO MART 6790 Davand Drive, Unit 7 Mississauga, Ontario Canada L5T 2G5 905-565-0737 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I'll need to order soon, and I wondered where others have purchased. It strikes me as the kind of stuff that won't travel across the border well. Any experiences? ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:24 AM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Kitfox-List: spark plugs Glenn Horne here, Can anyone on the list tell me the firing order of the 582 and the spark plug gap? Have to see the FESDO tomorrow and need this. Have the engine manual but don't seem to fine it in there. GlennHorne Suffolk, Va Kitfox II 582. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:58 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: spark plugs 582 plug gap .018 only two cylinders so pick 1 -2 or 2 -1 Spark plugs BR8ES ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Horne To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:02 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: spark plugs Glenn Horne here, Can anyone on the list tell me the firing order of the 582 and the spark plug gap? Have to see the FESDO tomorrow and need this. Have the engine manual but don't seem to fine it in there. GlennHorne Suffolk, Va Kitfox II 582. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:58 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: spark plugs The spark plug gap is 0.5 mm or .02". The firing order is of course 1-2 on a two cylinder engine but in fact all plugs fire at the same time at the top and bottom of each stroke. ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Horne To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: spark plugs Glenn Horne here, Can anyone on the list tell me the firing order of the 582 and the spark plug gap? Have to see the FESDO tomorrow and need this. Have the engine manual but don't seem to fine it in there. GlennHorne Suffolk, Va Kitfox II 582. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:44 AM PST US From: Rex Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Recent purchase questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex I'm not sure how much I can help. I don't know for sure what enhancements you might realize. Possible gross weight increase. I have a model 2 which I bought as a repair project. I had to buy a new spar and I got the model 4 wing instruction section of the builders manual with the newer spar kit. The important difference of the model 4 is the struts are longer than the model 2 (which I believe model 2 and 3 are the same, I may be wrong). So you must build the spars to position the internal "I" beam correctly for the struts you have. Model 3 struts or model 4 struts? I'm not at home so I can't get the reference dimensions for you. Perhaps someone else could tell us how far from the root to the strut bracket mounting bolt or the length of the model 3 or 4 struts. I could supply either construction sections for both M2 or M4 spars and wings by the end of the week. Rex Colorado goinghawgwyld@ssctv.net wrote: > I recently purchased a Kitfox III with a model 4 wing. What > enhancements will this provide to me over the model 3 wing? This kit > comes with a Rotax 912 80hp. What performance specs should I expect? I > am looking forward to finishing this project. If there is anything > else you feel I should know I would appreciate any input! Thanks again! > > > Ken Schwartz > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:01 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question on oil I burn 100LL all the time so that takes car of the synthetic idea. Thanks for the response Lowell Dee Do Not Archiv ----- Original Message ----- From: Lowell Fitt To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question on oil --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > Dee, The value in a full synthetic is the higher temps they can tolerate, the hit is their inability to keep the lead residues in suspension. If you fly strictly with car gas, the synthetic should be fine. If you occasionally use 100LL then you might want to avoid synthetics. This from the Rotax oil recommendation bulletin. The Rotax 912 series engines use the same oil in the engine as well as the gear box so they recommend a motorcycle engine oil with the gear additive. If your engine is similar, you might want to check the Rotax owners association website for info. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dee Young" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Question on oil Have been considering a change in oil. The engine is a four stroke air cooled and manufacturer suggests using an Automotive type engine oil meeting SAE SE grade or above. It also goes on to say MIL-L-46152B Spec. is recommended??? I have been using Aero Shell 15W-50 since the engine was new. Winter is coming and the Aero Shell is hard to turn the engine in the cold. That is the reason I am considering the change. I have been looking at the synthetics. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Thanks Dee Young N345DY Model II Do not archive. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:18 PM PST US From: "Willem Huisman" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a rapid GPH). You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an airport. Wim Huisman N77LR Holland ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:49 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Wim, It sounds like this actually happened to you. Right?. As I said before, my friend left his cap off twice and I don't remember him talking about loosing excessive fuel. Just curious. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Willem Huisman To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a rapid GPH). You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an airport. Wim Huisman N77LR Holland ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:56 PM PST US From: Donald STEVENSON Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave G. Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:56:34 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I'll need to order soon, and I wondered where others have purchased. It strikes me as the kind of stuff that won't travel across the border well. Any experiences? Hi Dave, I checked prices at The Aero Mart in Mississauga and found them to be quite a bit higher than Aircraft Spruce in the US even after the money exchange, so I picked up the material stste side and brought it back accross the border myself. However as of this Sept A/S has a Canadian Mississauga branch you may wish to check out.Good Luck, Don Contact Aircraft Spruce Canada at (877) 795-2278 or (905) 795-2278 (These phone numbers will be activated by September 1, 2006). The Company website is www.aircraftspruce.ca and orders can be placed on-line at the website. Don Stevenson, Caledon, Ontario, Canada M4/1200 Speedster 912UL ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:05 PM PST US From: "Willem Huisman" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Don, It did happen to me , my Kitfox series V has Tubes on the fuelcaps creating Airpressure inside the tanks,ensuring positive Fuelflow. If 1 tube is (partially) occluded , the only thing happening is Uneven pressure distribution, and uneven filling of tanks during flight. If one cap leaks, or is missing , pressure created during level flight, pushes Fuel from the Good Tank to the one that is leaking, emptying all your gas. Maybe speed , creating higher pressure could make a difference. My Lycoming makes me fly 120MPH . I lost 10 Gallons in 15 Min. Wim Huisman On 9/10/06, Don Smythe wrote: > > Wim, > It sounds like this actually happened to you. Right?. As I said > before, my friend left his cap off twice and I don't remember him talking > about loosing excessive fuel. Just curious. > > Don Smythe > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Willem Huisman > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:18 PM > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > > Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. > Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here > in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. > > Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. > > Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap > slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side > of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is > leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. > > After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing > all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a > rapid GPH). > > You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad > one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). > > > It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an > airport. > > Wim Huisman > N77LR > Holland > > * > > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:05 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: spark plugs Thanks Dave. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: spark plugs The spark plug gap is 0.5 mm or .02". The firing order is of course 1-2 on a two cylinder engine but in fact all plugs fire at the same time at the top and bottom of each stroke. ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Horne To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: spark plugs Glenn Horne here, Can anyone on the list tell me the firing order of the 582 and the spark plug gap? Have to see the FESDO tomorrow and need this. Have the engine manual but don't seem to fine it in there. GlennHorne Suffolk, Va Kitfox II 582. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:50 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Don, I've been watching this exchange and just to throw my 2 rubles in here I'll add mine. After fueling I placed a cap on with only one tab holding it and the pressure from the high side (tight cap) pushed the fuel out of the loose cap very quickly. Fortunately the cap stayed connected, but I lost about 5 gallons in less than the 15 minutes of flight from when I took off, figured it out, and returned to base. I now make rechecking the caps after refueling my last step. A simple step of just reaching up and grabbing the pitot while giving it a twist will tell you if it's on correctly or not. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Smythe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Wim, It sounds like this actually happened to you. Right?. As I said before, my friend left his cap off twice and I don't remember him talking about loosing excessive fuel. Just curious. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Willem Huisman To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a rapid GPH). You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an airport. Wim Huisman N77LR Holland ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:16 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Deke, Well, I'm now convinced that a loose or missing cap can cause this. I used to talk to Michael Harter every single morning on our Government phone tie line and he never mentioned loosing any fuel. Based on that, I had to question if the fuel would "really" siphon out. I guess it will and maybe Michael just didn't talk about that part. It's too bad I can't pick up the phone and yell at him like I used to. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Fox5flyer To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Don, I've been watching this exchange and just to throw my 2 rubles in here I'll add mine. After fueling I placed a cap on with only one tab holding it and the pressure from the high side (tight cap) pushed the fuel out of the loose cap very quickly. Fortunately the cap stayed connected, but I lost about 5 gallons in less than the 15 minutes of flight from when I took off, figured it out, and returned to base. I now make rechecking the caps after refueling my last step. A simple step of just reaching up and grabbing the pitot while giving it a twist will tell you if it's on correctly or not. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Smythe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Wim, It sounds like this actually happened to you. Right?. As I said before, my friend left his cap off twice and I don't remember him talking about loosing excessive fuel. Just curious. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Willem Huisman To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a rapid GPH). You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an airport. Wim Huisman N77LR Holland ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:32 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Wim, This is good news that might help the rest of us do a better check on the fuel caps. I might have been misinformed about Michael Harters missing cap episode. I have recessed non vent caps on my tanks with "O" ring seals. They don't leak and I don't have the problem with the little ears on the standard caps not catching or sealing but, I could forget to screw them in during refueling. Thanks, Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Willem Huisman To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Don, It did happen to me , my Kitfox series V has Tubes on the fuelcaps creating Airpressure inside the Wim Huisman On 9/10/06, Don Smythe wrote: Wim, It sounds like this actually happened to you. Right?. As I said before, my friend left his cap off twice and I don't remember him talking about loosing excessive fuel. Just curious. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Willem Huisman To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a rapid GPH). You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an airport. Wim Huisman N77LR Holland ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:58 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada Try Leavens or Avail Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald STEVENSON Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave G. Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:56:34 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I'll need to order soon, and I wondered where others have purchased. It strikes me as the kind of stuff that won't travel across the border well. Any experiences? Hi Dave, I checked prices at The Aero Mart in Mississauga and found them to be quite a bit higher than Aircraft Spruce in the US even after the money exchange, so I picked up the material stste side and brought it back accross the border myself. However as of this Sept A/S has a Canadian Mississauga branch you may wish to check out.Good Luck, Don Contact Aircraft Spruce Canada at (877) 795-2278 or (905) 795-2278 (These phone numbers will be activated by September 1, 2006). The Company website is www.aircraftspruce.ca and orders can be placed on-line at the website. Don Stevenson, Caledon, Ontario, Canada M4/1200 Speedster 912UL ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:00 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada sorry that's Aviall Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donald STEVENSON Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave G. Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:56:34 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Polyfiber chemicals in Canada I'll need to order soon, and I wondered where others have purchased. It strikes me as the kind of stuff that won't travel across the border well. Any experiences? Hi Dave, I checked prices at The Aero Mart in Mississauga and found them to be quite a bit higher than Aircraft Spruce in the US even after the money exchange, so I picked up the material stste side and brought it back accross the border myself. However as of this Sept A/S has a Canadian Mississauga branch you may wish to check out.Good Luck, Don Contact Aircraft Spruce Canada at (877) 795-2278 or (905) 795-2278 (These phone numbers will be activated by September 1, 2006). The Company website is www.aircraftspruce.ca and orders can be placed on-line at the website. Don Stevenson, Caledon, Ontario, Canada M4/1200 Speedster 912UL ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:36 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation I have noticed in the last 10 hours or so of flying that my right wing is getting a small fuel trail staining the top of the white wing from the fuel filler neak area. So today I blew into the the pitot tube after filling the tank and noticed a little leak around the filler neck where it goes into wing. I took some rand-o-bond superglue and put over top of the leak. I just flew for 30 mins just tonight and no sign of leakage and the blow test shows no leak . Hopefully it is fixed now . Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Fox5flyer To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Don, I've been watching this exchange and just to throw my 2 rubles in here I'll add mine. After fueling I placed a cap on with only one tab holding it and the pressure from the high side (tight cap) pushed the fuel out of the loose cap very quickly. Fortunately the cap stayed connected, but I lost about 5 gallons in less than the 15 minutes of flight from when I took off, figured it out, and returned to base. I now make rechecking the caps after refueling my last step. A simple step of just reaching up and grabbing the pitot while giving it a twist will tell you if it's on correctly or not. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Smythe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Wim, It sounds like this actually happened to you. Right?. As I said before, my friend left his cap off twice and I don't remember him talking about loosing excessive fuel. Just curious. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Willem Huisman To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a rapid GPH). You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an airport. Wim Huisman N77LR Holland ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:13 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel starvation & Mike Harter Actually Don, I don't think it's siphoned out. There might be a siphoning factor in it, but I believe that it's more being pushed out by the opposite high pressure tank that's pushing it out. It's probably a combination of both, hard to tell which one is dominant. Mike was a great guy. He gave me a big head start when it came time to wire my airplane by faxing me his well done schematics. Since we both had NSI/CAP setups it really helped me greatly. As I recall, I was about 1 year behind him with my completion and he had about 350 hours on his when I made my first flight. He was a great asset to the list and I still miss him. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Smythe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:58 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Deke, Well, I'm now convinced that a loose or missing cap can cause this. I used to talk to Michael Harter every single morning on our Government phone tie line and he never mentioned loosing any fuel. Based on that, I had to question if the fuel would "really" siphon out. I guess it will and maybe Michael just didn't talk about that part. It's too bad I can't pick up the phone and yell at him like I used to. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Fox5flyer To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Don, I've been watching this exchange and just to throw my 2 rubles in here I'll add mine. After fueling I placed a cap on with only one tab holding it and the pressure from the high side (tight cap) pushed the fuel out of the loose cap very quickly. Fortunately the cap stayed connected, but I lost about 5 gallons in less than the 15 minutes of flight from when I took off, figured it out, and returned to base. I now make rechecking the caps after refueling my last step. A simple step of just reaching up and grabbing the pitot while giving it a twist will tell you if it's on correctly or not. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Smythe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Wim, It sounds like this actually happened to you. Right?. As I said before, my friend left his cap off twice and I don't remember him talking about loosing excessive fuel. Just curious. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Willem Huisman To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a rapid GPH). You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an airport. Wim Huisman N77LR Holland ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:22 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Header Tank From: "dcsfoto" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" Just got my first Kitfox a Model III. It is 14 years old and has no header tank. I just got a used header tank from a model IV . my manual shows the header vent hooked to a vent line in the right tank,my right tank has no vent hookup. Do I need a vent line on my header tank? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60857#60857 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:55 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE/MAX of Midland, Michigan - Balloon Festival For those of you within commuting distance, weather permitting, this will be an even worth attending. If you've never seen the "afterglow" you've really been missing something. Next Fri/Sat/Sun. The best part is that it's FREE. Just bring a can of food for the Food Pantry of Midland. Deke http://www.remaxofmidland.com/balloonfest.cfm ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:38 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: spark plugs Dave, 582 plugs should be gapped .016 to .020 . I use .018 and if you gap at the max gap setting you will not allow any margin for wear . Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: spark plugs The spark plug gap is 0.5 mm or .02". The firing order is of course 1-2 on a two cylinder engine but in fact all plugs fire at the same time at the top and bottom of each stroke. ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Horne To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: spark plugs Glenn Horne here, Can anyone on the list tell me the firing order of the 582 and the spark plug gap? Have to see the FESDO tomorrow and need this. Have the engine manual but don't seem to fine it in there. GlennHorne Suffolk, Va Kitfox II 582. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:53 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Kitfox-List: Synthetic oils --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" I've been told semi synthetic is ok with 100LL? Is this correct? From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question on oil --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Dee, The value in a full synthetic is the higher temps they can tolerate, the hit is their inability to keep the lead residues in suspension. If you fly strictly with car gas, the syntheticsynthetic should be fine. If you occasionally use 100LL then you might want to avoid synthetics. This from the Rotax oil recommendation bulletin. The Rotax 912 series engines use the same oil in the engine as well as the gear box so they recommend a motorcycle engine oil with the gear additive. If your engine is similar, you might want to check the Rotax owners association website for info. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dee Young" Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Question on oil Have been considering a change in oil. The engine is a four stroke air cooled and manufacturer suggests using an Automotive type engine oil meeting SAE SE grade or above. It also goes on to say MIL-L-46152B Spec. is recommended??? I have been using Aero Shell 15W-50 since the engine was new. Winter is coming and the Aero Shell is hard to turn the engine in the cold. That is the reason I am considering the change. I have been looking at the synthetics. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Thanks Dee Young N345DY Model II Do not archive. _________________________________________________________________ Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid 0731 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:03 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Yes, I guess the speed you fly has a baring here, lot more pressure at 100kts that at 80...?? From: "Willem Huisman" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Don, It did happen to me , my Kitfox series V has Tubes on the fuelcaps creating Airpressure inside the tanks,ensuring positive Fuelflow. If 1 tube is (partially) occluded , the only thing happening is Uneven pressure distribution, and uneven filling of tanks during flight. If one cap leaks, or is missing , pressure created during level flight, pushes Fuel from the Good Tank to the one that is leaking, emptying all your gas. Maybe speed , creating higher pressure could make a difference. My Lycoming makes me fly 120MPH . I lost 10 Gallons in 15 Min. Wim Huisman On 9/10/06, Don Smythe wrote: > > Wim, > It sounds like this actually happened to you. Right?. As I said >before, my friend left his cap off twice and I don't remember him talking >about loosing excessive fuel. Just curious. > >Don Smythe > >----- Original Message ----- >*From:* Willem Huisman >*To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com >*Sent:* Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:18 PM >*Subject:* Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > >Kitfox and Fuel starvation, happens real easily. >Not a contributor normally, but this one is important. I fly N77LR here >in Holland, after buying it from Leo in 2003. > >Always check Fuel Caps carefully after Topping off. > >Happened to when I bought my Kifox early on. If you screw on the Fuelcap >slightly wrong (don't latch both lips on Cap or forget it), only one side >of the fuelcap closes, rubber gasket does not seal, and now that side is >leaking air, not creating pressure inside the tank. > >After take off the good side (other tank) is creating pressure, pushing >all fuel to the bad leaking side ( Now leaking fuel instade on air in a >rapid GPH). > >You can notice real fast, since One tank is completely full (the bad >one) and the other side rushes empty ( the one creating air pressure). > > >It takes no more as 15 Min to empty more as one tank, so hurry and find an >airport. > >Wim Huisman >N77LR >Holland > >* > >* > >* > >* > > _________________________________________________________________ Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:02 PM PST US From: "Rexster" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE/MAX of Midland, Michigan - Balloon Festival Deke, Is this something we would want to fly the Foxes to or is the airspace closed around there? Rex in Southeast Michigan -- "Fox5flyer" wrote: For those of you within commuting distance, weather permitting, this wil l be an even worth attending. If you've never seen the "afterglow" you' ve really been missing something. Next Fri/Sat/Sun. The best part is t hat it's FREE. Just bring a can of food for the Food Pantry of Midland. ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =========

Deke,

  Is this something we would want to fly the Foxes to or is the airspace closed around there?

Rex in Southeast Michigan



-- "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>&nb sp;wrote:

For those of you within commuting dista nce, weather permitting, this will be an even worth attending.  If you've never seen the "afterglow" you've really been missing something.& nbsp;
Next Fri/Sat/Sun.  The best part i s that it's FREE.  Just bring a can of food for the Food Pantry of Midland.
Deke
 
http://www.remaxofmidland.com/ball oonfest.cfm 


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________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:25 PM PST US From: "Rexster" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE/MAX of Midland, Michigan - Balloon Festival Deke, Is this something we would want to fly the Foxes to or is the airspace closed around there? Rex in Southeast Michigan -- "Fox5flyer" wrote: For those of you within commuting distance, weather permitting, this wil l be an even worth attending. If you've never seen the "afterglow" you' ve really been missing something. Next Fri/Sat/Sun. The best part is t hat it's FREE. Just bring a can of food for the Food Pantry of Midland. ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =========

Deke,

  Is this something we would want to fly the Foxes to or is the airspace closed around there?

Rex in Southeast Michigan



-- "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>&nb sp;wrote:

For those of you within commuting dista nce, weather permitting, this will be an even worth attending.  If you've never seen the "afterglow" you've really been missing something.& nbsp;
Next Fri/Sat/Sun.  The best part i s that it's FREE.  Just bring a can of food for the Food Pantry of Midland.
Deke
 
http://www.remaxofmidland.com/ball oonfest.cfm 


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">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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tronics.com
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________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:42 PM PST US From: "kirkhull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Header Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" Yes or the tank will not fill up with fuel properly as the air will have no way out of the tank. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dcsfoto Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Header Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" Just got my first Kitfox a Model III. It is 14 years old and has no header tank. I just got a used header tank from a model IV . my manual shows the header vent hooked to a vent line in the right tank,my right tank has no vent hookup. Do I need a vent line on my header tank? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60857#60857 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:06 PM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Header Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley M Webb" Yes, though I refer to it as a "purge" line. My Model 2 has the line going to an ON-OFF valve, and vented overboard. If my lo-fuel light in my header tank ever comes on, I simply open the valve until it goes out. Positive pressure from the tank, and suction from the aft facing vent tube fills the header quickly. I highly recommend a similar system to you. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dcsfoto Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Header Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" Just got my first Kitfox a Model III. It is 14 years old and has no header tank. I just got a used header tank from a model IV . my manual shows the header vent hooked to a vent line in the right tank,my right tank has no vent hookup. Do I need a vent line on my header tank? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60857#60857 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:00 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Header Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" When I built my Model 2 back in 1991 I installed a Facet fuel pump and fuel pressure gauge just in case....Before each days flight I open the valve between my header vent tube and the fuel return line that goes back up to my right wing tank and I turn on the fuel pump. That purges any & all air from the header tank. Then, with the pump still on, I shut that valve which then pressurizes the lines to the carbs. My engine starts are always fast since I have 3# of fuel pressure at the start. I would never fly without the Facet and the pressure gauge. Ron N55KF 582/C box > Yes, though I refer to it as a "purge" line. > > My Model 2 has the line going to an ON-OFF valve, and vented overboard. If > my lo-fuel light in my header tank ever comes on, I simply open the valve > until it goes out. Positive pressure from the tank, and suction from the > aft > facing vent tube fills the header quickly. > > I highly recommend a similar system to you. > > Bradley ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:16 PM PST US From: "Les Chambers" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel starvation & Mike Harter For you old-timers, here's a shot of Mike & Bruce Harrington and the Ghost at the Factory Fly In, Caldwell, Aug 25, 2001. Several sad events in the days & weeks afterward. Les Chambers ----- Original Message ----- From: Fox5flyer To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:57 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel starvation & Mike Harter Mike was a great guy. He gave me a big head start when it came time to wire my airplane by faxing me his well done schematics. Since we both had NSI/CAP setups it really helped me greatly. As I recall, I was about 1 year behind him with my completion and he had about 350 hours on his when I made my first flight. He was a great asset to the list and I still miss him. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Smythe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:58 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Deke, I used to talk to Michael Harter every single morning on our Government phone tie line and he never mentioned loosing any fuel. It's too bad I can't pick up the phone and yell at him like I used to. Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:57 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM Variation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 04:35 AM 9/10/2006, you wrote: > I always referred to my problem as "surging". What was happening was, I >would get up to about 4500 RPM's and the sleeve would slip. That caused the >prop to unload and the engine would rev to the outer limits. As soon as >this would happen, there would be a great amount of heat developed in the >sleeve and it would seize then the prop would be back in the picture and >RPM's would settle out. It was intermittent and in short burst. Appeared >to be surging. Thanks Don. This is definitely not my problem. My RPM's just seem to wander. Also Bob Robertson torqued the C-box when he put on the clutch and broke in the motor. I'm sure he got it right. Thanks anyway, though, as it's good information. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:57 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM Variation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 04:39 AM 9/10/2006, you wrote: >Will the engine do the same at 5400 RPM, and at 6200 RPM?? If the >ignition "pick up" plate is become loose, this RPM fluctuating will occurs >(more or less) in the whole operating band. I think it's everywhere. >Also, -since your AC is relatively new, is this something that shows up >all that sudden, or is this a problem that's been there since day one? I never notice a change. I think it's operated the same since I first started it. >Try to isolate if this is fuel, ignition or prop. releated. I will. Thanks Torgeir. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:28 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Header Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" The header has to vent to fill properly. You'll need a vent. Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "dcsfoto" Subject: Kitfox-List: Header Tank >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" > >Just got my first Kitfox a Model III. It is 14 years old and has no header tank. I just got a used header tank from a model IV . my manual shows the header vent hooked to a vent line in the right tank,my right tank has no vent hookup. >Do I need a vent line on my header tank? > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php? p=60857#60857 > > >_- ===================================================== ===== browse Subscriptions page, FAQ, List >_- ===================================================== ===== Web Forums! >_- ===================================================== ===== >_- ===================================================== ===== Admin. >_- ===================================================== ===== > > ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:20 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Header Tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I agree, the header vent is essential. I haven't done this, but it is an idea. You could "T" off of the upper tank sight gauge port to a vent line from the header, thus avoiding having to drill and lay up a new tank port. Takes a little plumbing, but should be easier??? Anyone think of a significant problem with this approach? It is past my bedtime, by a few years. ;-) Kurt S. --- dcsfoto wrote: > Just got my first Kitfox a Model III. It is 14 years > old and has no header tank. I just got a used header > tank from a model IV . my manual shows the header > vent hooked to a vent line in the right tank,my > right tank has no vent hookup. > Do I need a vent line on my header tank? __________________________________________________