Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:24 AM - Re: Factory help (Lynn Matteson)
2. 04:44 AM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Don Smythe)
3. 04:51 AM - Heavy turtledeck option (Dave G.)
4. 04:54 AM - on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Dave)
5. 05:35 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Don Smythe)
6. 05:50 AM - Re: Low level fuel indicators (Algate)
7. 05:58 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Dave G.)
8. 06:04 AM - Leaky fuel tanks. (Dave G.)
9. 06:16 AM - Source for strut fairings???????????? (Dwayne)
10. 06:27 AM - San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th (Jake Lewis)
11. 06:48 AM - Re: Factory help (dcsfoto)
12. 06:52 AM - Re: Source for strut fairings???????????? (Marwynne Kuhn)
13. 07:25 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Don Smythe)
14. 07:39 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Fox5flyer)
15. 07:41 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Fox5flyer)
16. 07:41 AM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (PWilson)
17. 07:46 AM - Aircraft plans for sale (Fox5flyer)
18. 07:51 AM - Re: Low level fuel indicators (PWilson)
19. 07:51 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (PWilson)
20. 08:07 AM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Don Smythe)
21. 08:12 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Don Smythe)
22. 08:24 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Dave G.)
23. 08:30 AM - 912 (80 hp) Engine Mount for Sale - Series 5 (Anliker, Mark)
24. 08:31 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Dave G.)
25. 08:37 AM - comment on latest threads (kitfoxmike)
26. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Factory help (jdmcbean)
27. 08:45 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Don Smythe)
28. 10:05 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
29. 10:20 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (kurt schrader)
30. 10:43 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Lynn Matteson)
31. 10:43 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (kurt schrader)
32. 10:49 AM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (kurt schrader)
33. 10:58 AM - Re: Source for strut fairings???????????? (kurt schrader)
34. 11:51 AM - Re: Aircraft plans for sale (Ron Liebmann)
35. 12:25 PM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Fox5flyer)
36. 01:17 PM - Fw: Aircraft plans for sale (Ron Liebmann)
37. 01:18 PM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Don Smythe)
38. 01:58 PM - Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th (Guy Buchanan)
39. 01:58 PM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Guy Buchanan)
40. 02:18 PM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Fox5flyer)
41. 02:40 PM - New Kitfox CFI (Andrew Matthaey)
42. 02:40 PM - FW: Kitfox Fuel System (Don Pearsall)
43. 03:00 PM - Re: Factory help (Roger McConnell)
44. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Factory help (Herbert R Gottelt)
45. 06:48 PM - Fly In IMT (Cudnohufsky's)
46. 07:46 PM - How smart are you ? (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
47. 08:34 PM - Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th (WBL)
48. 09:38 PM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (John Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Factory help |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I have had John answer my phone calls even when he was just walking out
of the graphics shop after dropping off an order for me. Parts ordered
were sent within a reasonable amount of time, or an explanation given.
Both John and Debra are fun to talk to...mention Nascar racing sometime
when there's a lull in the conversation. : )
Lynn
On Monday, September 11, 2006, at 09:37 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann"
> <rliebmann@comcast.net>
>
> I too any very happy with the responses that I get from John & Debra.
> They get back to me fast if I have to leave a message but usually they
> just answer the phone.
>
> Congratulations to them for what they are doing for us! They deserve
> our full support far more than previous owners.
>
> Ron N55KF Model 2/582C
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>>
>> I have just had support for my Mod IV from the new Kitfox folk, and
>> spoke to Mr McBean on the phone. I can't really find fault with the
>> support I recieved, parts were sent reasonably quickly. I expect that
>> things are still being sorted out, most emails have been answered
>> within a day or two.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Kurt,
Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but
basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler with a
hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all the metal
that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection plate on the
bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to the hole you
cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) and reach the
outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent hole/fitting at
the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of the
tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill the hole
since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go pull the
wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum line incased in poly
all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at the wing tip
end and go out the bottom, bend forward and you are done.
Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much easier.
Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only problem
I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will pee out the
one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The further you
go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the other hand, it
might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and live with the little
bit of peeing during taxi.
Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person just
had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole would
largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a large donut on
the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach the new
filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back in.
Just a quick thought
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to
> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like
> these big clunky caps and messy vents either.
>
> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-)
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I
>> believe modifying the
>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom
>> vent could be done fairly
>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would
>> take a little thinking
>> and design.
>>
>> Don Smythe
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Heavy turtledeck option |
I have a one piece turtledeck, as shown in the attached picture. It must
work well as it has many hours on it, but it weighs in at around 5 lbs.
Maybe this isn't a factor as I see they are now selling one piece formed
decks and they must weigh even more. What other options have people
used? Weight? Or should I just fly it as is.
Message 4
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| Subject: | on fuel caps --what about fairings? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining of
the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> Kurt,
> Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but
> basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler with
> a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all the
> metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection plate on
> the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to the hole
> you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) and reach
> the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent hole/fitting
> at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of
> the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill the
> hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go pull
> the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum line incased
> in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at
> the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend forward and you are done.
> Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much easier.
> Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only
> problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will pee
> out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The
> further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the
> other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and
> live with the little bit of peeing during taxi.
> Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person
> just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole
> would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a large
> donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach the
> new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back in.
>
> Just a quick thought
> Don Smythe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to
>> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like
>> these big clunky caps and messy vents either.
>>
>> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-)
>>
>> Kurt S. S-5
>>
>> --- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Paul,
>>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I
>>> believe modifying the
>>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom
>>> vent could be done fairly
>>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would
>>> take a little thinking
>>> and design.
>>>
>>> Don Smythe
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I can't speak of speed since mine were installed from the start. The
recessed caps I used (Marine) actually sit about 1/4" high above the tank
top. I faired them into the tank top keeping the round shape and out about
8 inches. So, I have a small bubble sitting up a bit. I have noticed the
fabric pulling loose in a couple places on that bubble due to the airflow
over them. Lots of suction in that area.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining
> of the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ?
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>
>> Kurt,
>> Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but
>> basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler
>> with a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all
>> the metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection
>> plate on the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to
>> the hole you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole)
>> and reach the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent
>> hole/fitting at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on
>> the inside of the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have
>> to predrill the hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole.
>> Wheeee,,,, Now, go pull the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe
>> 3/8" aluminum line incased in poly all the way through the wing.
>> Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at the wing tip end and go out the bottom,
>> bend forward and you are done.
>> Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much easier.
>> Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only
>> problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will pee
>> out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The
>> further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the
>> other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and
>> live with the little bit of peeing during taxi.
>> Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person
>> just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole
>> would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a large
>> donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach
>> the new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back
>> in.
>>
>> Just a quick thought
>> Don Smythe
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to
>>> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like
>>> these big clunky caps and messy vents either.
>>>
>>> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-)
>>>
>>> Kurt S. S-5
>>>
>>> --- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I
>>>> believe modifying the
>>>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom
>>>> vent could be done fairly
>>>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would
>>>> take a little thinking
>>>> and design.
>>>>
>>>> Don Smythe
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Low level fuel indicators |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I certainly agree with Lynn on this one. I also purchased the Murle Williams
low fuel warning system and had it fitted to my system in about 45 minutes.
Admittedly Murle's documentation is a little sparse but this system is ultra
simple and works like a charm.
Also Murle doesn't use credit cards - he just sends you an invoice and you
send a cheque.
Nice guy
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab 2200
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low level fuel indicators
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
More complex? I have one of Murle's units... Mount unit near header
tank. Cut vent line (from your Kitfox header tank to right-hand fuel
tank in wing). Lower portion of hose goes to lower fitting in Murle's
unit. Upper portion of cut vent line goes to upper fitting in Murle's
unit. How can this be complex?
Lynn
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining
> of the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ?
>
> Dave
>
I noticed on one of the sites that was posted the other day that there are
fairings available to put behind the gas caps. I don't know what effect they
would have. Does anyone use them?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Leaky fuel tanks. |
I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had
this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to
repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had
as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a
dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as
dark on the masking tape.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Source for strut fairings???????????? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dwayne" <dwaynemccourt@yahoo.com>
I am searching for a supplier for the PVC strut fairings. Any help would be appreciated.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61163#61163
Message 10
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| Subject: | San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th |
Hello All,
I wanted to get the word out that EAA chapter 14 in San Diego, CA is hosting
a Kitfox fly-in this Saturday, September 16th at Brown Field. I contacted the
chapter event coordinator to ask how many Kitfox's they were expecting and he
had no idea. He said that he was relying on the word to travel through the Kitfox
community.
I am thinking about purchasing a Kitfox in the near future and was hoping this event would give me a chance to see several aircraft and speak to their owners. Here is chapter 14's web site in case you have any questions http://www.eaa14.org
Please spread the word!
Hope to see you there,
Jake Lewis
---------------------------------
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Factory help |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" <david@kelm.com>
John
All of the positive responce above makes me feel a little better about the new
Kitfox. In your responce it seems that the emails about the elevator got lost,you
responded and gave me a price,my return email ask how do I make payment and
that was never responded to. ( I got lucky and have found a used one)
As far as phone calls, I have called as much as 20 times and never got anything
but voicemail.
Please do not get me wrong as I want to see Kitfox LLC survive and am willing to
help all I can.I am a full time DAR,I support the homebuliders in my area by
providing free certification services.
I do still want Bubble doors
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61165#61165
Message 12
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| Subject: | Source for strut fairings???????????? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marwynne Kuhn" <marwynne@verizon.net>
I don't know if they will fit, but Quad City Challenger had PVC fairings for
my Challenger II. I bought the plane and they had them . You might want
to check with Quad city. Good luck
Marwynne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dwayne
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:16 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Source for strut fairings????????????
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dwayne" <dwaynemccourt@yahoo.com>
I am searching for a supplier for the PVC strut fairings. Any help would be
appreciated.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61163#61163
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
Dave,
It looks like these tanks are new and never been installed. What
year were they manufactured? What type fuel did you use that showed the
weeps? With the rapid use of Ethanol, it makes the tank questions much
harder. I for one do not think an outside patch is the way to go. I
also don't feel comfortable with sloshes (Just my opinion). However,
short of cutting the tanks open I might consider a large outside patch
of glass and epoxy resin. I would always be suspicious of the rest of
the tank area and future leaks.
Don Smythe (opinion only)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had
this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to
repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had
as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a
dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as
dark on the masking tape.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Dave, I faired mine in both front and back sides. Previously I'd placed
small drops of oil randomly on the wing behind the caps to see what they
would look like after flying. What I found was that the caps disturbed the
flow enough that from the rear of the cap to the trailing was turbulent air
that wedged out to about 18" wide at the trailing edge. I thought that was
good enough reason to fair them in. It was a slow winter anyway.
Photos on Sportflight.com, our Kitfox Photo Archive hosted by Don Pearsall.
Browse around while you're in there.
Deke
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1007426364
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining
of
> the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ?
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> >
> > Kurt,
> > Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but
> > basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler
with
> > a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all the
> > metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection plate
on
> > the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to the
hole
> > you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) and reach
> > the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent
hole/fitting
> > at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of
> > the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill
the
> > hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go
pull
> > the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum line incased
> > in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at
> > the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend forward and you are done.
> > Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much
easier.
> > Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only
> > problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will
pee
> > out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The
> > further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the
> > other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and
> > live with the little bit of peeing during taxi.
> > Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person
> > just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole
> > would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a
large
> > donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach
the
> > new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back in.
> >
> > Just a quick thought
> > Don Smythe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> >> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to
> >> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like
> >> these big clunky caps and messy vents either.
> >>
> >> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-)
> >>
> >> Kurt S. S-5
> >>
> >> --- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Paul,
> >>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I
> >>> believe modifying the
> >>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom
> >>> vent could be done fairly
> >>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would
> >>> take a little thinking
> >>> and design.
> >>>
> >>> Don Smythe
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
small web cam on a dowel? Cool!
Why is sloshing out?
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had
this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to
repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had
as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a
dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as
dark on the masking tape.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation |
Here is what I did and I think it is easier that Dons method for a retro fit.
After having the parts in hand it just cut a hole the size to fit
but left enough tank so the flange fit on top of the tank. This
method leave some of the old flange imbedded in the tank top. Then I
chamfered the mounting holes and made very rough gouges on the back
of the flange so when I bonded the unit to the tank it would have
lots of grip. Some shaping of the flange was required to make it fit
flush with the tank. I did not use screws to clamp the flange, but
you may want to? If so remember that each screw is a possible leak path.
Then I drilled a hole in the tank end and ran my 1/4" vent to a
location near the filler - then down. I used safety wire to hold the
vent pipe to the top of the tank. The safety wire was brought up so
as to be under the flange for good electrical contact. The lump of
twisted wire make contact with the flange for the ground. Then I used
a clamp to the vent line to allow a wire to go to the spar. I even
drilled small holed in the side of this new vent to allow a higher
gas level. Read Dons comment of venting at the wing tip for a better
method. My vent terminated directly straight down.
Then I glued it all together, using 3m epoxy. Probably not the best
choice but that is what Skystar said to use. Don did more research
after this and came up with West epoxy. Do your home work and see
what epoxy is the best now days.
I used some west epoxy filler to smooth everything out at the cap area.
ACS has many more filler choices these days for flush un vented cap
assemblies. I used a UD-3-F about $40? Mine came with holes in the
flange. The cap is lever operated and has a fat alcohol compatible Viton o-ring
See the attached build picture. Notice that the quick drain has not
been deleted at photo time. Alas, if you study the pic carefully you
can see the thin Al strip coming from the filler neck It is the
ground because the safety wire on this tank had poor contact. I
secured the Al strip with a tiny AL wood screw then sanded epoxy
filler flush. So much for good intentions :-)
Regards, Paul
================
At 05:43 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>Kurt,
> Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it
> but basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing
> filler with a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big
> to get all the metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install
> an inspection plate on the bottom of the wing just outboard of the
> tank and adjacent to the hole you cut. Now you can work inside the
> tank (through the hole) and reach the outside end (inspection hole)
> for installing the new vent hole/fitting at the outboard top
> end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of the tank where
> the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill the hole
> since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go
> pull the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum
> line incased in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90
> degree fitting at the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend
> forward and you are done.
> Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much
> easier. Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing
> tip. The only problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do
> a turn, fuel will pee out the one vent or the other depending on
> which way I'm turning. The further you go out the wing (dihedral)
> the higher the vent is. On the other hand, it might be just as
> good to put the vent near the tank and live with the little bit of
> peeing during taxi.
> Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a
> person just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the
> big hole would largely depend on what style filler you have. I
> epoxied in a large donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave
> me a flange to attach the new filler. Then using epoxy and feather
> light fair everything back in.
>
>Just a quick thought
>Don Smythe
>----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader"
><smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>><smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>>Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to
>>see how it could be done easier, since I don't like
>>these big clunky caps and messy vents either.
>>
>>You've got the lead on this one too.... :-)
>>
>>Kurt S. S-5
>>
>>--- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Paul,
>>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I
>>>believe modifying the
>>>existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom
>>>vent could be done fairly
>>>easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would
>>>take a little thinking
>>>and design.
>>>
>>>Don Smythe
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Aircraft plans for sale |
I'm forwarding this for Jeff Hays who is not on list. Reply to the
address below.
Deke
I have a set of Bearhawk plans for sale, unused for $200 if
you know
anybody interested they're $275 from Bob Barrows. Also a set of KR-2S
plans for
$175 which are $240 from Rand Robinson now. Bought both at various
points when
thinking about other projects.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
jeff.hays@bankofamerica.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Low level fuel indicators |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
45 compared to 5 for teh lowtech method
PW
=====================
At 06:54 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
>I certainly agree with Lynn on this one. I also purchased the Murle Williams
>low fuel warning system and had it fitted to my system in about 45 minutes.
>
>Admittedly Murle's documentation is a little sparse but this system is ultra
>simple and works like a charm.
>
>Also Murle doesn't use credit cards - he just sends you an invoice and you
>send a cheque.
>
>Nice guy
>
>Gary Algate
>Classic 4 Jab 2200
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
>Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:43 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low level fuel indicators
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>More complex? I have one of Murle's units... Mount unit near header
>tank. Cut vent line (from your Kitfox header tank to right-hand fuel
>tank in wing). Lower portion of hose goes to lower fitting in Murle's
>unit. Upper portion of cut vent line goes to upper fitting in Murle's
>unit. How can this be complex?
>
>Lynn
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
Very small pinholes which is why Skystar used the internal sloshing
stuff. Clean it and and epoxy on the outside? The pinholes are very common.
Paul
At 07:04 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
>I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had
>this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way
>to repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out,
>I had as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam
>on a dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots
>shown as dark on the masking tape.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Paul,
I agree that your install seems much easier. A couple little problems I
ran into was, the tank tops have a little contour to them and the new
fillers were flat. I had to do a little shaving and build up to get a good
fit. Also, do you have a problem with fuel overflow out the vents with them
so close to the tank?
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "PWilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
> Here is what I did and I think it is easier that Dons method for a retro
> fit.
> After having the parts in hand it just cut a hole the size
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
I might add one more suggestion if those are new/never installed tanks.
Clean the outsides very good. Mix up some good epoxy resin and coat the
entire outside of the tanks. Use a plastic scraper and put the epoxy on as
thin as you can. Epoxy (especially when lightly warmed with a hairdryer)
will wick into the smallest of pin holes. This might just add a little
extra assurance.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "PWilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
>
> Very small pinholes which is why Skystar used the internal sloshing stuff.
> Clean it and and epoxy on the outside? The pinholes are very common.
> Paul
>
> At 07:04 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
>>I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
Hi Don, these tanks have been used for ~500 flying hours. with avgas and
CDN auto gas, so likely no ethanol. The show the laks I just tossed a
gallon of gas into them and let them sit for a few days. I knew where it
was leaking and wanted to see how bad it was. Is regular epoxy resin
gasproof, I have some really nice tight weave fiberglass cloth.
Dave,
It looks like these tanks are new and never been installed. What
year were they manufactured? What type fuel did you use that showed the
weeps? With the rapid use of Ethanol, it makes the tank questions much
harder. I for one do not think an outside patch is the way to go. I
also don't feel comfortable with sloshes (Just my opinion). However,
short of cutting the tanks open I might consider a large outside patch
of glass and epoxy resin. I would always be suspicious of the rest of
the tank area and future leaks.
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | 912 (80 hp) Engine Mount for Sale - Series 5 |
I just posted it for sale with pictures on www.Barnstormers.com
<http://www.barnstormers.com/> .
Never installed. One small crack in powdercoat that's almost
unnoticeable, but I'm being up front.
$275 plus shipping.
Mark Anliker
217-898-4766
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
Sloshing compound was found to be coming off on some aircraft and I
think currently you are not supposed to use it. I could be wrong.
----- Original Message -----
From: Fox5flyer
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
small web cam on a dowel? Cool!
Why is sloshing out?
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had
this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to
repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had
as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a
dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as
dark on the masking tape.
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | comment on latest threads |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
Group,
I have to comment on the latest threads. Tanks: I have independent tanks, meaning
I have shut off valves for each tank, inline filters after the valves. I
have a header tank with a vent that goes to the right wing, top side. I have
a main shut off valve under the dash. I fly on one tank at a time only. I've
had too much trouble trying to fly on both tanks at the same time, seems the
right side always bleeds into the left tank. I have sight tubes for each tank,
I only let a tank go to the bottom of the sight tube aout an inch off the bottom,
I estimate 5 gal. left 16 gal. tanks. I like looking at the inline filters
they shows fuel flow. How, they come off the tanks and have a vertical drop
to the header tank, so they don't fill all the way up. I ALWAYS check the caps
for the tanks before climbing into the aircraft ALWAYS, and grab them by the
pitot tubes, not real hard, but enough to know the caps are properly installed.
If the sight tubes don't show, could be empty or full, I climb up and remove
the cap and look inside. If anybody else, not usually, fills my plane, I
look everything over that they did, including taking a sample for the right fuel.
On the subject of lights, I have standard lights that are wired in series at the
lights, in other words the white and colored lights are in series. Cuts down
on the amp draw and the light output is sufficient. I have the strongest Whellen
system and explodes in the sky, so to speak. Last night I went on a night
flight and with all lights on and transponder, tower heard me just fine on
the radio. After landing, I turned off the strobes, at idle I usually loose the
radio transmit. I don't have a landing light, never will, I guess back when
I learned to fly, the 172 that I flew always had a burned out light so I never
had the luxery of landing lights, so why have one now. To be seen, believe
me they see me with those strobes. In fact with strobes it lights up the runway
real good.
Hope this helps.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61193#61193
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Factory help |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
David,
I will contact you off list...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dcsfoto
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:48 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Factory help
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" <david@kelm.com>
John
All of the positive responce above makes me feel a little better about the
new Kitfox. In your responce it seems that the emails about the elevator got
lost,you responded and gave me a price,my return email ask how do I make
payment and that was never responded to. ( I got lucky and have found a used
one)
As far as phone calls, I have called as much as 20 times and never got
anything but voicemail.
Please do not get me wrong as I want to see Kitfox LLC survive and am
willing to help all I can.I am a full time DAR,I support the homebuliders in
my area by providing free certification services.
I do still want Bubble doors
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61165#61165
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
I'm far from being an Epoxy expert. I used West Systems after talking
with the manufacture a couple times. They insured me that West Systems
was gasoline safe. HOWEVER, I talked with them again not too long ago
and they are concerned about their product and Ethanol. They are not
willing to give the same assurance when using Ethanol??? I would
recommend you do some research to find the best epoxy resin.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
Hi Don, these tanks have been used for ~500 flying hours. with avgas
and CDN auto gas, so likely no ethanol. The show the laks I just tossed
a gallon of gas into them and let them sit for a few days. I knew where
it was leaking and wanted to see how bad it was. Is regular epoxy resin
gasproof, I have some really nice tight weave fiberglass cloth.
Dave,
It looks like these tanks are new and never been installed.
What year were they manufactured? What type fuel did you use that showed
the weeps? With the rapid use of Ethanol, it makes the tank questions
much harder. I for one do not think an outside patch is the way to go.
I also don't feel comfortable with sloshes (Just my opinion). However,
short of cutting the tanks open I might consider a large outside patch
of glass and epoxy resin. I would always be suspicious of the rest of
the tank area and future leaks.
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | on fuel caps --what about fairings? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Dave,
I faired mine too. Probably learned from Don. I have pictures at:
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1151042132
I shaped mine a little differently than Don's.
I have heard statements that with out the fairing you effectively lose about
2' of wing. I don't know. I did mine during construction.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Dave, I faired mine in both front and back sides. Previously I'd placed
small drops of oil randomly on the wing behind the caps to see what they
would look like after flying. What I found was that the caps disturbed the
flow enough that from the rear of the cap to the trailing was turbulent air
that wedged out to about 18" wide at the trailing edge. I thought that was
good enough reason to fair them in. It was a slow winter anyway.
Photos on Sportflight.com, our Kitfox Photo Archive hosted by Don Pearsall.
Browse around while you're in there.
Deke
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1007426364
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining
of
> the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ?
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> >
> > Kurt,
> > Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but
> > basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler
with
> > a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all the
> > metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection plate
on
> > the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to the
hole
> > you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) and reach
> > the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent
hole/fitting
> > at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of
> > the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill
the
> > hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go
pull
> > the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum line incased
> > in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at
> > the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend forward and you are done.
> > Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much
easier.
> > Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only
> > problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will
pee
> > out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The
> > further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the
> > other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and
> > live with the little bit of peeing during taxi.
> > Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person
> > just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole
> > would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a
large
> > donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach
the
> > new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back in.
> >
> > Just a quick thought
> > Don Smythe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> >> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to
> >> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like
> >> these big clunky caps and messy vents either.
> >>
> >> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-)
> >>
> >> Kurt S. S-5
> >>
> >> --- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Paul,
> >>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I
> >>> believe modifying the
> >>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom
> >>> vent could be done fairly
> >>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would
> >>> take a little thinking
> >>> and design.
> >>>
> >>> Don Smythe
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Don,
Now you tell me.... :-)
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net> wrote:
> I might add one more suggestion if those are
> new/never installed tanks.
> Clean the outsides very good. Mix up some good
> epoxy resin and coat the
> entire outside of the tanks. Use a plastic scraper
> and put the epoxy on as
> thin as you can. Epoxy (especially when lightly
> warmed with a hairdryer)
> will wick into the smallest of pin holes. This
> might just add a little
> extra assurance.
>
> Don Smythe
__________________________________________________
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
How about one more suggestion, Don....apply a SLIGHT vacuum to the
filler cap area via the vent tube and maybe it will help draw the epoxy
into those small pin holes...just a thought. A vacuum cleaner might do
the trick, or running your car's engine might do it...NOT AT FULL
vacuum, though...don't want anybody sucking those expensive tanks into
junk!
Personally, I did the slosh method, and have over 150 hrs on the plane
without (knock on wood) a problem yet. My tanks were 12 yrs old with no
fuel ever in them when Frank Miller suggested that I clean and slosh
them. I use only avgas...when you burn only 3.3 gals/hour, it's
affordable, I feel.
Lynn
On Tuesday, September 12, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Don Smythe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> I might add one more suggestion if those are new/never installed
> tanks. Clean the outsides very good. Mix up some good epoxy resin and
> coat the entire outside of the tanks. Use a plastic scraper and put
> the epoxy on as thin as you can. Epoxy (especially when lightly
> warmed with a hairdryer) will wick into the smallest of pin holes.
> This might just add a little extra assurance.
>
> Don Smythe
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "PWilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I bought a pair of large Piper Cub pully covers from
ACS. They are cheap, lightweight plastic and seem to
fit over the caps, but I haven't had time to mount
them yet. Too many things to do on my list....
But if these work, they are a quick, cheap solution.
Anyone else can try them and not lose much of they
don't work out for you.
Kurt S.
--- "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G."
> <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
> > Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone
> done any streamlining
> > of the fuel caps and did they even notice an
> increase in cruise ?
> >
> > Dave
__________________________________________________
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks Guys,
I'll keep this for later when I can do more complex
changes. Right now I only have time for simple stuff.
Kurt S.
--- PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com> wrote:
> Here is what I did and I think it is easier that
> Dons method for a retro fit.
> After having the parts in hand it just cut a hole
> the size to fit
> but left enough tank so the flange fit on top of the
> tank. This
> method leave some of the old flange imbedded in the
> tank top. Then I
> chamfered the mounting holes and made very rough
> gouges on the back
> of the flange so when I bonded the unit to the tank
> it would have
> lots of grip. Some shaping of the flange was
> required to make it fit
> flush with the tank. I did not use screws to clamp
> the flange, but
> you may want to? If so remember that each screw is a
> possible leak path.
> Then I drilled a hole in the tank end and ran my
> 1/4" vent to a
> location near the filler - then down. I used safety
> wire to hold the
> vent pipe to the top of the tank. The safety wire
> was brought up so
> as to be under the flange for good electrical
> contact. The lump of
> twisted wire make contact with the flange for the
> ground. Then I used
> a clamp to the vent line to allow a wire to go to
> the spar. I even
> drilled small holed in the side of this new vent to
> allow a higher
> gas level. Read Dons comment of venting at the wing
> tip for a better
> method. My vent terminated directly straight down.
> Then I glued it all together, using 3m epoxy.
> Probably not the best
> choice but that is what Skystar said to use. Don did
> more research
> after this and came up with West epoxy. Do your home
> work and see
> what epoxy is the best now days.
> I used some west epoxy filler to smooth everything
> out at the cap area.
>
> ACS has many more filler choices these days for
> flush un vented cap
> assemblies. I used a UD-3-F about $40? Mine came
> with holes in the
> flange. The cap is lever operated and has a fat
> alcohol compatible Viton o-ring
>
> See the attached build picture. Notice that the
> quick drain has not
> been deleted at photo time. Alas, if you study the
> pic carefully you
> can see the thin Al strip coming from the filler
> neck It is the
> ground because the safety wire on this tank had poor
> contact. I
> secured the Al strip with a tiny AL wood screw then
> sanded epoxy
> filler flush. So much for good intentions :-)
>
> Regards, Paul
> ================
>
> At 05:43 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe"
> <dosmythe@cox.net>
> >
> >Kurt,
> > Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring
> out how to do it
> > but basically, you would have to start by cutting
> out the existing
> > filler with a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes
> a hole that big
> > to get all the metal that's epoxied into the tank.
> Next, install
> > an inspection plate on the bottom of the wing just
> outboard of the
> > tank and adjacent to the hole you cut. Now you
> can work inside the
> > tank (through the hole) and reach the outside end
> (inspection hole)
> > for installing the new vent hole/fitting at the
> outboard top
> > end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside
> of the tank where
> > the new vent hole get's punched. May have to
> predrill the hole
> > since a drill motor might not fit the hole.
> Wheeee,,,, Now, go
> > pull the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe
> 3/8" aluminum
> > line incased in poly all the way through the wing.
> Fabricate a 90
> > degree fitting at the wing tip end and go out the
> bottom, bend
> > forward and you are done.
> > Mine was installed prior to covering so of
> course, it was much
> > easier. Mine comes out the bottom about half way
> to the wing
> > tip. The only problem I have is when I taxi with
> full fuel and do
> > a turn, fuel will pee out the one vent or the
> other depending on
> > which way I'm turning. The further you go out the
> wing (dihedral)
> > the higher the vent is. On the other hand, it
> might be just as
> > good to put the vent near the tank and live with
> the little bit of
> > peeing during taxi.
> > Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could
> be done if a
> > person just had to do it. Attaching the new
> recessed filler to the
> > big hole would largely depend on what style filler
> you have. I
> > epoxied in a large donut on the inside of the tank
> hole. This gave
> > me a flange to attach the new filler. Then using
> epoxy and feather
> > light fair everything back in.
> >
> >Just a quick thought
> >Don Smythe
__________________________________________________
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Source for strut fairings???????????? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I made my own out of foam, carbon fiber and S glass.
Michel (Norway) and a friend of his from France
greatly helped with the design! This list is great!
Anyway, very light, but more effort. Gained 10% in
speed! The carbon fiber adds stiffness but is not
impact resistant (NASA-pay attention!) The S-glass
and West Epoxy made them quite hard. I think the
whole thing weighs 7 lbs, but I estimated up to 40 lbs
in additional lift and a hugh reduction in drag.
They lift themselves, stiffen the strut and make you
go faster. A gain all around, except you will float
until you get use to the drag reduction. :-)
Fairing profile available on request.
Kurt S. S-5
--- Dwayne <dwaynemccourt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am searching for a supplier for the PVC strut
> fairings. Any help would be appreciated.
__________________________________________________
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft plans for sale |
Howzit go'in Jeff.........
Is the new plane com'in along well? Now don't forget that before ya
sell the Fox, I still get my first ride in it...Our T-Craft is out at
C77 now waiting for final assembly. It may fly this year. Our new T-28
shop is coming along ok and we have already started the T-28 project.
Hope to talk soon, Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Fox5flyer
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale
I'm forwarding this for Jeff Hays who is not on list. Reply to the
address below.
Deke
I have a set of Bearhawk plans for sale, unused for $200 if
you know
anybody interested they're $275 from Bob Barrows. Also a set of KR-2S
plans for
$175 which are $240 from Rand Robinson now. Bought both at various
points when
thinking about other projects.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
jeff.hays@bankofamerica.com
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
This is news to me Dave. As far as I know, the Kreem is still fine.
The only reason it was a problem with Skystar supplied tanks is that the
mold release wasn't cleaned out of the inside of the tanks prior to
applying the Kreem which caused it to eventually peel off of the inside
surface. Cleaning the tanks with MEK or Acetone then reapplying Kreem
50/50 was a good fix. Some were able to get away with using no slosh at
all.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
Sloshing compound was found to be coming off on some aircraft and I
think currently you are not supposed to use it. I could be wrong.
----- Original Message -----
From: Fox5flyer
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
small web cam on a dowel? Cool!
Why is sloshing out?
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar
had this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way
to repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I
had as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a
dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as
dark on the masking tape.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Aircraft plans for sale |
Sorry list about this message. I should have sent it direct to Jeff.
Ron N55KF
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Liebmann
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale
Howzit go'in Jeff.........
Is the new plane com'in along well? Now don't forget that before ya
sell the Fox, I still get my first ride in it...Our T-Craft is out at
C77 now waiting for final assembly. It may fly this year. Our new T-28
shop is coming along ok and we have already started the T-28 project.
Hope to talk soon, Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Fox5flyer
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale
I'm forwarding this for Jeff Hays who is not on list. Reply to the
address below.
Deke
I have a set of Bearhawk plans for sale, unused for $200 if
you know
anybody interested they're $275 from Bob Barrows. Also a set of KR-2S
plans for
$175 which are $240 from Rand Robinson now. Bought both at various
points when
thinking about other projects.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
jeff.hays@bankofamerica.com
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Kurt,
You mean you didn't do that. I remember telling you 7 years ago to be
sure and coat the outsides. Also, the one post that mentioned putting on a
vacuum might work even better.
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader"
> Don,
>
> Now you tell me.... :-)
>
> Kurt S.
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 06:27 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
>I wanted to get the word out that EAA chapter 14 in San Diego, CA is
>hosting a Kitfox fly-in this Saturday, September 16th at Brown Field.
I'll be there with the Red & White Kitfox. (Brown's inside my test fly
box.) I'm trying to get Harold (from Ramona) to come down too.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:39 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
>Dave, I faired mine in both front and back sides.
Love the fairings but what I want to know is, howinaheck do ya get the caps
off? I have to use my whole hand to get mine off. (Kinda stiff.)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Just use the pitot tubes. They're plenty strong. Just keep a little lube
on the gasket.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 07:39 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
> >Dave, I faired mine in both front and back sides.
>
> Love the fairings but what I want to know is, howinaheck do ya get the
caps
> off? I have to use my whole hand to get mine off. (Kinda stiff.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
Message 41
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
Hello List...
Well, it's official - I am now a CFI/CFII/MEI !
Currently I'm in the Jacksonville, FL area to Flight Instruct, but have no
idea where I'll be in the coming weeks and months...
So, if any lister here is in need of a Kitfox CFI, I would be more than
happy to offer my services free of charge to help anybody out...Just shoot
me an email offlist or feel free to call.
Andrew
KF3
646.354.3252
_________________________________________________________________
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | FW: Kitfox Fuel System |
(Posted at request of Guy Buchanan)
I wanted to upload these pictures of my Kitfox fuel system.
There's been some discussion about loops in lines so I wanted to show my
system which runs entirely "down-hill". The tank to header lines are 3/8".
The header vent is 1/4". The header to fuel pump, (not shown,) is 3/8".
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 43
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
I'll second that!!
Roger Mac
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Pearsall
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:17 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Factory help
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
I just want to chime and also give kudos to John and Debra McBean for even
being ON this Kitfox List. I have been a member of the KF list for about 11
years, and John is the ONLY "official" Kitfox factory rep to participate and
help the KF list members. And all for FREE. From Dan Denney, to Phil Reed,
to Ed Downs, John is the only one to be an active member of this group. He
is a Kitfox expert, and is the key to keeping the Kitfox line going.
So please appreciate what John is doing, and thank him for the contributions
that he has made.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Liebmann
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
I too any very happy with the responses that I get from John & Debra. They
get back to me fast if I have to leave a message but usually they just
answer the phone.
Congratulations to them for what they are doing for us! They deserve our
full support far more than previous owners.
Ron N55KF Model 2/582C
DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> I have just had support for my Mod IV from the new Kitfox folk, and spoke
> to Mr McBean on the phone. I can't really find fault with the support I
> recieved, parts were sent reasonably quickly. I expect that things are
> still being sorted out, most emails have been answered within a day or
> two.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Factory help |
Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net> wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted
by: Dave and Diane
Regarding the comments about the new Kitfox owners.
I feel that I need to speak up because my experience with John and Debra has
been excellent; particularily since they are now occupied with the setup and
development of the new company. Their new responsibilities; by necessity,
cannot help but create some real challenges with balancing everything they
need to do - its got to be a big job.
First and formost, John and Debra have demonstrated to me that they are
ethical people, they have been truthful and honest in all their dealings with
me. I have been lied to by OTHER people in the past (some little thing about
a measly $18,000 discrepancy and a year's history of blaming someone else for
not delivering it). I can confidently say that John and Debra have been
absolutely honest with me and that counts for everything.
When they were at Oshkosh, obviously they could not be at two places at once,
and a person would not have been able to communicate with them immediately.
Things happen in cyber world too. While I consider myself somewhat capable in
dealing with computers and e-mail, it is very apparent to me that electronic
communication systems and those of us operating them have their flaws and
hick-ups. I have long ago considered that sometimes an e-mail doesn't go
through, or some screening software erroneously filters it out; or, God
forbid, my Norwegian fingers don't match up with the keyboard and I type an
incorrect character in an e-mail address - I found out it only takes one....
I have long ago decided that it is better not to jump to conclusions when I
don't hear back on an e-mail - just go about my business and try to figure
out what went wrong.
I can't claim to know the whys and whats of someone else's experience; but I
would certainly say that (Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto"
) is not at all what I have seen and I would certainly
recommend that if you do get in touch with John and Debra and you are
reasonable with them, they will take care of their business with you, they
will be honest and fair.
Sincerely,
Dave S
St Paul, MN
I agree with the super comments above 100%.
John and Debra will always do their utmost to bring back every customer from
way back and prove reliability, honesty and super customer service whenever possible.
Herb Gottelt
M4-1200UL
On Monday 11 September 2006 5:26 pm, dcsfoto wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto"
>
Message 45
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Gang,
Our EAA Chapter is having a Fly-In this weekend, sorry I spaced it off
until now to post it for the list in case anyone is looking for
someplace to fly to this Saturday. It is at the Iron Mountain Ford
Airport "IMT". We couple it with a car show, we have 2 aerobatics
routines performing this year, warbirds, rides and food and much more.
Last year we had the Shockley Jet truck race a Pitts down the runway,
you can see a video of it at the web site. Check it out at
www.eaa439.org there is also some pics from 04 Ford Airport Day under
the pics section. Would love to see some of you make it up for the
event.
Lloyd
Message 46
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| Subject: | How smart are you ? |
No mater how smart you are it is always what you don't know that gets you in
trouble.
When I don't know why my plain is broke I become very beside my self. That
is I cant even explain the variety of things I feal. But as pilot in command
I must remember it is my responsibility and I must never blame anyone.
To become an aviator one must realize they are embarking on a journey
that may take a lifetime and still may never reveal the true destination.
I guess that is why they say it's getting there not being there that's all
the fun.
if not for people like Mr. McBean and there are a lot of them, most of us
would never get off the ground. Malcolm Michigan kit foxer
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
I will try to make it down! N102KM KF Classic IV, Lake Riverside, Pete
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jake Lewis <jakelewis22@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2006 6:27 AM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th
>
>Hello All,
>
> I wanted to get the word out that EAA chapter 14 in San Diego, CA is hosting
a Kitfox fly-in this Saturday, September 16th at Brown Field. I contacted the
chapter event coordinator to ask how many Kitfox's they were expecting and he
had no idea. He said that he was relying on the word to travel through the
Kitfox community.
>
> I am thinking about purchasing a Kitfox in the near future and was hoping this event would give me a chance to see several aircraft and speak to their owners. Here is chapter 14's web site in case you have any questions http://www.eaa14.org
>
> Please spread the word!
>
> Hope to see you there,
> Jake Lewis
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Leaky fuel tanks. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Sloshing the tanks works ok so long as theey are flushed out well to get rid
of the waxy coat left from the mold. Detergent is no good, MEK or the likes
is needed.
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
How about one more suggestion, Don....apply a SLIGHT vacuum to the filler
cap area via the vent tube and maybe it will help draw the epoxy into those
small pin holes...just a thought. A vacuum cleaner might do the trick, or
running your car's engine might do it...NOT AT FULL vacuum, though...don't
want anybody sucking those expensive tanks into junk!
Personally, I did the slosh method, and have over 150 hrs on the plane
without (knock on wood) a problem yet. My tanks were 12 yrs old with no fuel
ever in them when Frank Miller suggested that I clean and slosh them. I use
only avgas...when you burn only 3.3 gals/hour, it's affordable, I feel.
Lynn
On Tuesday, September 12, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Don Smythe wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>I might add one more suggestion if those are new/never installed tanks.
>Clean the outsides very good. Mix up some good epoxy resin and coat the
>entire outside of the tanks. Use a plastic scraper and put the epoxy on as
>thin as you can. Epoxy (especially when lightly warmed with a hairdryer)
>will wick into the smallest of pin holes. This might just add a little
>extra assurance.
>
>Don Smythe
>----- Original Message ----- From: "PWilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:45 AM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks.
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