---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/12/06: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:24 AM - Re: Factory help (Lynn Matteson) 2. 04:44 AM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Don Smythe) 3. 04:51 AM - Heavy turtledeck option (Dave G.) 4. 04:54 AM - on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Dave) 5. 05:35 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Don Smythe) 6. 05:50 AM - Re: Low level fuel indicators (Algate) 7. 05:58 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Dave G.) 8. 06:04 AM - Leaky fuel tanks. (Dave G.) 9. 06:16 AM - Source for strut fairings???????????? (Dwayne) 10. 06:27 AM - San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th (Jake Lewis) 11. 06:48 AM - Re: Factory help (dcsfoto) 12. 06:52 AM - Re: Source for strut fairings???????????? (Marwynne Kuhn) 13. 07:25 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Don Smythe) 14. 07:39 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Fox5flyer) 15. 07:41 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Fox5flyer) 16. 07:41 AM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (PWilson) 17. 07:46 AM - Aircraft plans for sale (Fox5flyer) 18. 07:51 AM - Re: Low level fuel indicators (PWilson) 19. 07:51 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (PWilson) 20. 08:07 AM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (Don Smythe) 21. 08:12 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Don Smythe) 22. 08:24 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Dave G.) 23. 08:30 AM - 912 (80 hp) Engine Mount for Sale - Series 5 (Anliker, Mark) 24. 08:31 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Dave G.) 25. 08:37 AM - comment on latest threads (kitfoxmike) 26. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Factory help (jdmcbean) 27. 08:45 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Don Smythe) 28. 10:05 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Randy Daughenbaugh) 29. 10:20 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (kurt schrader) 30. 10:43 AM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Lynn Matteson) 31. 10:43 AM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (kurt schrader) 32. 10:49 AM - Re: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation (kurt schrader) 33. 10:58 AM - Re: Source for strut fairings???????????? (kurt schrader) 34. 11:51 AM - Re: Aircraft plans for sale (Ron Liebmann) 35. 12:25 PM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Fox5flyer) 36. 01:17 PM - Fw: Aircraft plans for sale (Ron Liebmann) 37. 01:18 PM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (Don Smythe) 38. 01:58 PM - Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th (Guy Buchanan) 39. 01:58 PM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Guy Buchanan) 40. 02:18 PM - Re: on fuel caps --what about fairings? (Fox5flyer) 41. 02:40 PM - New Kitfox CFI (Andrew Matthaey) 42. 02:40 PM - FW: Kitfox Fuel System (Don Pearsall) 43. 03:00 PM - Re: Factory help (Roger McConnell) 44. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Factory help (Herbert R Gottelt) 45. 06:48 PM - Fly In IMT (Cudnohufsky's) 46. 07:46 PM - How smart are you ? (Malcolmbru@aol.com) 47. 08:34 PM - Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th (WBL) 48. 09:38 PM - Re: Leaky fuel tanks. (John Anderson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I have had John answer my phone calls even when he was just walking out of the graphics shop after dropping off an order for me. Parts ordered were sent within a reasonable amount of time, or an explanation given. Both John and Debra are fun to talk to...mention Nascar racing sometime when there's a lull in the conversation. : ) Lynn On Monday, September 11, 2006, at 09:37 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" > > > I too any very happy with the responses that I get from John & Debra. > They get back to me fast if I have to leave a message but usually they > just answer the phone. > > Congratulations to them for what they are doing for us! They deserve > our full support far more than previous owners. > > Ron N55KF Model 2/582C > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >> >> I have just had support for my Mod IV from the new Kitfox folk, and >> spoke to Mr McBean on the phone. I can't really find fault with the >> support I recieved, parts were sent reasonably quickly. I expect that >> things are still being sorted out, most emails have been answered >> within a day or two. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:38 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Kurt, Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler with a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all the metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection plate on the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to the hole you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) and reach the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent hole/fitting at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill the hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go pull the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum line incased in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend forward and you are done. Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much easier. Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will pee out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and live with the little bit of peeing during taxi. Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a large donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach the new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back in. Just a quick thought Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > > Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to > see how it could be done easier, since I don't like > these big clunky caps and messy vents either. > > You've got the lead on this one too.... :-) > > Kurt S. S-5 > > --- Don Smythe wrote: > >> Paul, >> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I >> believe modifying the >> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom >> vent could be done fairly >> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would >> take a little thinking >> and design. >> >> Don Smythe > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:36 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Kitfox-List: Heavy turtledeck option I have a one piece turtledeck, as shown in the attached picture. It must work well as it has many hours on it, but it weighs in at around 5 lbs. Maybe this isn't a factor as I see they are now selling one piece formed decks and they must weigh even more. What other options have people used? Weight? Or should I just fly it as is. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:20 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining of the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Smythe" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:43 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > Kurt, > Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but > basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler with > a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all the > metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection plate on > the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to the hole > you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) and reach > the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent hole/fitting > at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of > the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill the > hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go pull > the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum line incased > in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at > the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend forward and you are done. > Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much easier. > Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only > problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will pee > out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The > further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the > other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and > live with the little bit of peeing during taxi. > Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person > just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole > would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a large > donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach the > new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back in. > > Just a quick thought > Don Smythe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kurt schrader" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader >> >> >> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to >> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like >> these big clunky caps and messy vents either. >> >> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-) >> >> Kurt S. S-5 >> >> --- Don Smythe wrote: >> >>> Paul, >>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I >>> believe modifying the >>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom >>> vent could be done fairly >>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would >>> take a little thinking >>> and design. >>> >>> Don Smythe >> >> __________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:15 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" I can't speak of speed since mine were installed from the start. The recessed caps I used (Marine) actually sit about 1/4" high above the tank top. I faired them into the tank top keeping the round shape and out about 8 inches. So, I have a small bubble sitting up a bit. I have noticed the fabric pulling loose in a couple places on that bubble due to the airflow over them. Lots of suction in that area. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > > Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining > of the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ? > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Smythe" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:43 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" >> >> Kurt, >> Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but >> basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler >> with a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all >> the metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection >> plate on the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to >> the hole you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) >> and reach the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent >> hole/fitting at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on >> the inside of the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have >> to predrill the hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole. >> Wheeee,,,, Now, go pull the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe >> 3/8" aluminum line incased in poly all the way through the wing. >> Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at the wing tip end and go out the bottom, >> bend forward and you are done. >> Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much easier. >> Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only >> problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will pee >> out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The >> further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the >> other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and >> live with the little bit of peeing during taxi. >> Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person >> just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole >> would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a large >> donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach >> the new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back >> in. >> >> Just a quick thought >> Don Smythe >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "kurt schrader" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation >> >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader >>> >>> >>> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to >>> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like >>> these big clunky caps and messy vents either. >>> >>> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-) >>> >>> Kurt S. S-5 >>> >>> --- Don Smythe wrote: >>> >>>> Paul, >>>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I >>>> believe modifying the >>>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom >>>> vent could be done fairly >>>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would >>>> take a little thinking >>>> and design. >>>> >>>> Don Smythe >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:49 AM PST US From: "Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Low level fuel indicators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" I certainly agree with Lynn on this one. I also purchased the Murle Williams low fuel warning system and had it fitted to my system in about 45 minutes. Admittedly Murle's documentation is a little sparse but this system is ultra simple and works like a charm. Also Murle doesn't use credit cards - he just sends you an invoice and you send a cheque. Nice guy Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab 2200 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low level fuel indicators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson More complex? I have one of Murle's units... Mount unit near header tank. Cut vent line (from your Kitfox header tank to right-hand fuel tank in wing). Lower portion of hose goes to lower fitting in Murle's unit. Upper portion of cut vent line goes to upper fitting in Murle's unit. How can this be complex? Lynn ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:53 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > > Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining > of the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ? > > Dave > I noticed on one of the sites that was posted the other day that there are fairings available to put behind the gas caps. I don't know what effect they would have. Does anyone use them? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:55 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as dark on the masking tape. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:58 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Source for strut fairings???????????? From: "Dwayne" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dwayne" I am searching for a supplier for the PVC strut fairings. Any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61163#61163 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:25 AM PST US From: Jake Lewis Subject: Kitfox-List: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th Hello All, I wanted to get the word out that EAA chapter 14 in San Diego, CA is hosting a Kitfox fly-in this Saturday, September 16th at Brown Field. I contacted the chapter event coordinator to ask how many Kitfox's they were expecting and he had no idea. He said that he was relying on the word to travel through the Kitfox community. I am thinking about purchasing a Kitfox in the near future and was hoping this event would give me a chance to see several aircraft and speak to their owners. Here is chapter 14's web site in case you have any questions http://www.eaa14.org Please spread the word! Hope to see you there, Jake Lewis --------------------------------- Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:31 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Factory help From: "dcsfoto" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" John All of the positive responce above makes me feel a little better about the new Kitfox. In your responce it seems that the emails about the elevator got lost,you responded and gave me a price,my return email ask how do I make payment and that was never responded to. ( I got lucky and have found a used one) As far as phone calls, I have called as much as 20 times and never got anything but voicemail. Please do not get me wrong as I want to see Kitfox LLC survive and am willing to help all I can.I am a full time DAR,I support the homebuliders in my area by providing free certification services. I do still want Bubble doors Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61165#61165 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:05 AM PST US From: "Marwynne Kuhn" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Source for strut fairings???????????? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marwynne Kuhn" I don't know if they will fit, but Quad City Challenger had PVC fairings for my Challenger II. I bought the plane and they had them . You might want to check with Quad city. Good luck Marwynne -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dwayne Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:16 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Source for strut fairings???????????? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dwayne" I am searching for a supplier for the PVC strut fairings. Any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61163#61163 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:50 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. Dave, It looks like these tanks are new and never been installed. What year were they manufactured? What type fuel did you use that showed the weeps? With the rapid use of Ethanol, it makes the tank questions much harder. I for one do not think an outside patch is the way to go. I also don't feel comfortable with sloshes (Just my opinion). However, short of cutting the tanks open I might consider a large outside patch of glass and epoxy resin. I would always be suspicious of the rest of the tank area and future leaks. Don Smythe (opinion only) ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as dark on the masking tape. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:57 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Dave, I faired mine in both front and back sides. Previously I'd placed small drops of oil randomly on the wing behind the caps to see what they would look like after flying. What I found was that the caps disturbed the flow enough that from the rear of the cap to the trailing was turbulent air that wedged out to about 18" wide at the trailing edge. I thought that was good enough reason to fair them in. It was a slow winter anyway. Photos on Sportflight.com, our Kitfox Photo Archive hosted by Don Pearsall. Browse around while you're in there. Deke http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1007426364 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > > Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining of > the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ? > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Smythe" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:43 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > > > Kurt, > > Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but > > basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler with > > a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all the > > metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection plate on > > the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to the hole > > you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) and reach > > the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent hole/fitting > > at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of > > the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill the > > hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go pull > > the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum line incased > > in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at > > the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend forward and you are done. > > Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much easier. > > Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only > > problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will pee > > out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The > > further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the > > other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and > > live with the little bit of peeing during taxi. > > Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person > > just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole > > would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a large > > donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach the > > new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back in. > > > > Just a quick thought > > Don Smythe > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "kurt schrader" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > > > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > >> > >> > >> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to > >> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like > >> these big clunky caps and messy vents either. > >> > >> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-) > >> > >> Kurt S. S-5 > >> > >> --- Don Smythe wrote: > >> > >>> Paul, > >>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I > >>> believe modifying the > >>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom > >>> vent could be done fairly > >>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would > >>> take a little thinking > >>> and design. > >>> > >>> Don Smythe > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:28 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. small web cam on a dowel? Cool! Why is sloshing out? Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as dark on the masking tape. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:45 AM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation Here is what I did and I think it is easier that Dons method for a retro fit. After having the parts in hand it just cut a hole the size to fit but left enough tank so the flange fit on top of the tank. This method leave some of the old flange imbedded in the tank top. Then I chamfered the mounting holes and made very rough gouges on the back of the flange so when I bonded the unit to the tank it would have lots of grip. Some shaping of the flange was required to make it fit flush with the tank. I did not use screws to clamp the flange, but you may want to? If so remember that each screw is a possible leak path. Then I drilled a hole in the tank end and ran my 1/4" vent to a location near the filler - then down. I used safety wire to hold the vent pipe to the top of the tank. The safety wire was brought up so as to be under the flange for good electrical contact. The lump of twisted wire make contact with the flange for the ground. Then I used a clamp to the vent line to allow a wire to go to the spar. I even drilled small holed in the side of this new vent to allow a higher gas level. Read Dons comment of venting at the wing tip for a better method. My vent terminated directly straight down. Then I glued it all together, using 3m epoxy. Probably not the best choice but that is what Skystar said to use. Don did more research after this and came up with West epoxy. Do your home work and see what epoxy is the best now days. I used some west epoxy filler to smooth everything out at the cap area. ACS has many more filler choices these days for flush un vented cap assemblies. I used a UD-3-F about $40? Mine came with holes in the flange. The cap is lever operated and has a fat alcohol compatible Viton o-ring See the attached build picture. Notice that the quick drain has not been deleted at photo time. Alas, if you study the pic carefully you can see the thin Al strip coming from the filler neck It is the ground because the safety wire on this tank had poor contact. I secured the Al strip with a tiny AL wood screw then sanded epoxy filler flush. So much for good intentions :-) Regards, Paul ================ At 05:43 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > >Kurt, > Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it > but basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing > filler with a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big > to get all the metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install > an inspection plate on the bottom of the wing just outboard of the > tank and adjacent to the hole you cut. Now you can work inside the > tank (through the hole) and reach the outside end (inspection hole) > for installing the new vent hole/fitting at the outboard top > end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of the tank where > the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill the hole > since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go > pull the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum > line incased in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 > degree fitting at the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend > forward and you are done. > Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much > easier. Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing > tip. The only problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do > a turn, fuel will pee out the one vent or the other depending on > which way I'm turning. The further you go out the wing (dihedral) > the higher the vent is. On the other hand, it might be just as > good to put the vent near the tank and live with the little bit of > peeing during taxi. > Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a > person just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the > big hole would largely depend on what style filler you have. I > epoxied in a large donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave > me a flange to attach the new filler. Then using epoxy and feather > light fair everything back in. > >Just a quick thought >Don Smythe >----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" > >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader >> >> >>Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to >>see how it could be done easier, since I don't like >>these big clunky caps and messy vents either. >> >>You've got the lead on this one too.... :-) >> >>Kurt S. S-5 >> >>--- Don Smythe wrote: >> >>>Paul, >>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I >>>believe modifying the >>>existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom >>>vent could be done fairly >>>easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would >>>take a little thinking >>>and design. >>> >>>Don Smythe >> >>__________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:35 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale I'm forwarding this for Jeff Hays who is not on list. Reply to the address below. Deke I have a set of Bearhawk plans for sale, unused for $200 if you know anybody interested they're $275 from Bob Barrows. Also a set of KR-2S plans for $175 which are $240 from Rand Robinson now. Bought both at various points when thinking about other projects. Regards, Jeff Hays jeff.hays@bankofamerica.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:37 AM PST US From: PWilson Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Low level fuel indicators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson 45 compared to 5 for teh lowtech method PW ===================== At 06:54 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" > >I certainly agree with Lynn on this one. I also purchased the Murle Williams >low fuel warning system and had it fitted to my system in about 45 minutes. > >Admittedly Murle's documentation is a little sparse but this system is ultra >simple and works like a charm. > >Also Murle doesn't use credit cards - he just sends you an invoice and you >send a cheque. > >Nice guy > >Gary Algate >Classic 4 Jab 2200 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson >Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:43 PM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low level fuel indicators > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > >More complex? I have one of Murle's units... Mount unit near header >tank. Cut vent line (from your Kitfox header tank to right-hand fuel >tank in wing). Lower portion of hose goes to lower fitting in Murle's >unit. Upper portion of cut vent line goes to upper fitting in Murle's >unit. How can this be complex? > >Lynn > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:37 AM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson Very small pinholes which is why Skystar used the internal sloshing stuff. Clean it and and epoxy on the outside? The pinholes are very common. Paul At 07:04 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote: >I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had >this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way >to repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, >I had as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam >on a dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots >shown as dark on the masking tape. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:05 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Paul, I agree that your install seems much easier. A couple little problems I ran into was, the tank tops have a little contour to them and the new fillers were flat. I had to do a little shaving and build up to get a good fit. Also, do you have a problem with fuel overflow out the vents with them so close to the tank? Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "PWilson" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > Here is what I did and I think it is easier that Dons method for a retro > fit. > After having the parts in hand it just cut a hole the size ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:20 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" I might add one more suggestion if those are new/never installed tanks. Clean the outsides very good. Mix up some good epoxy resin and coat the entire outside of the tanks. Use a plastic scraper and put the epoxy on as thin as you can. Epoxy (especially when lightly warmed with a hairdryer) will wick into the smallest of pin holes. This might just add a little extra assurance. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: "PWilson" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:45 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson > > Very small pinholes which is why Skystar used the internal sloshing stuff. > Clean it and and epoxy on the outside? The pinholes are very common. > Paul > > At 07:04 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote: >>I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:23 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. Hi Don, these tanks have been used for ~500 flying hours. with avgas and CDN auto gas, so likely no ethanol. The show the laks I just tossed a gallon of gas into them and let them sit for a few days. I knew where it was leaking and wanted to see how bad it was. Is regular epoxy resin gasproof, I have some really nice tight weave fiberglass cloth. Dave, It looks like these tanks are new and never been installed. What year were they manufactured? What type fuel did you use that showed the weeps? With the rapid use of Ethanol, it makes the tank questions much harder. I for one do not think an outside patch is the way to go. I also don't feel comfortable with sloshes (Just my opinion). However, short of cutting the tanks open I might consider a large outside patch of glass and epoxy resin. I would always be suspicious of the rest of the tank area and future leaks. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 (80 hp) Engine Mount for Sale - Series 5 From: "Anliker, Mark" I just posted it for sale with pictures on www.Barnstormers.com . Never installed. One small crack in powdercoat that's almost unnoticeable, but I'm being up front. $275 plus shipping. Mark Anliker 217-898-4766 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:38 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. Sloshing compound was found to be coming off on some aircraft and I think currently you are not supposed to use it. I could be wrong. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fox5flyer To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. small web cam on a dowel? Cool! Why is sloshing out? Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as dark on the masking tape. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:07 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: comment on latest threads From: "kitfoxmike" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" Group, I have to comment on the latest threads. Tanks: I have independent tanks, meaning I have shut off valves for each tank, inline filters after the valves. I have a header tank with a vent that goes to the right wing, top side. I have a main shut off valve under the dash. I fly on one tank at a time only. I've had too much trouble trying to fly on both tanks at the same time, seems the right side always bleeds into the left tank. I have sight tubes for each tank, I only let a tank go to the bottom of the sight tube aout an inch off the bottom, I estimate 5 gal. left 16 gal. tanks. I like looking at the inline filters they shows fuel flow. How, they come off the tanks and have a vertical drop to the header tank, so they don't fill all the way up. I ALWAYS check the caps for the tanks before climbing into the aircraft ALWAYS, and grab them by the pitot tubes, not real hard, but enough to know the caps are properly installed. If the sight tubes don't show, could be empty or full, I climb up and remove the cap and look inside. If anybody else, not usually, fills my plane, I look everything over that they did, including taking a sample for the right fuel. On the subject of lights, I have standard lights that are wired in series at the lights, in other words the white and colored lights are in series. Cuts down on the amp draw and the light output is sufficient. I have the strongest Whellen system and explodes in the sky, so to speak. Last night I went on a night flight and with all lights on and transponder, tower heard me just fine on the radio. After landing, I turned off the strobes, at idle I usually loose the radio transmit. I don't have a landing light, never will, I guess back when I learned to fly, the 172 that I flew always had a burned out light so I never had the luxery of landing lights, so why have one now. To be seen, believe me they see me with those strobes. In fact with strobes it lights up the runway real good. Hope this helps. -------- kitfoxmike kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike rv7 wingkit reserved 287RV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61193#61193 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:08 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Factory help --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" David, I will contact you off list... Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dcsfoto Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Factory help --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" John All of the positive responce above makes me feel a little better about the new Kitfox. In your responce it seems that the emails about the elevator got lost,you responded and gave me a price,my return email ask how do I make payment and that was never responded to. ( I got lucky and have found a used one) As far as phone calls, I have called as much as 20 times and never got anything but voicemail. Please do not get me wrong as I want to see Kitfox LLC survive and am willing to help all I can.I am a full time DAR,I support the homebuliders in my area by providing free certification services. I do still want Bubble doors Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61165#61165 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:10 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. I'm far from being an Epoxy expert. I used West Systems after talking with the manufacture a couple times. They insured me that West Systems was gasoline safe. HOWEVER, I talked with them again not too long ago and they are concerned about their product and Ethanol. They are not willing to give the same assurance when using Ethanol??? I would recommend you do some research to find the best epoxy resin. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. Hi Don, these tanks have been used for ~500 flying hours. with avgas and CDN auto gas, so likely no ethanol. The show the laks I just tossed a gallon of gas into them and let them sit for a few days. I knew where it was leaking and wanted to see how bad it was. Is regular epoxy resin gasproof, I have some really nice tight weave fiberglass cloth. Dave, It looks like these tanks are new and never been installed. What year were they manufactured? What type fuel did you use that showed the weeps? With the rapid use of Ethanol, it makes the tank questions much harder. I for one do not think an outside patch is the way to go. I also don't feel comfortable with sloshes (Just my opinion). However, short of cutting the tanks open I might consider a large outside patch of glass and epoxy resin. I would always be suspicious of the rest of the tank area and future leaks. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:36 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Dave, I faired mine too. Probably learned from Don. I have pictures at: http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1151042132 I shaped mine a little differently than Don's. I have heard statements that with out the fairing you effectively lose about 2' of wing. I don't know. I did mine during construction. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Dave, I faired mine in both front and back sides. Previously I'd placed small drops of oil randomly on the wing behind the caps to see what they would look like after flying. What I found was that the caps disturbed the flow enough that from the rear of the cap to the trailing was turbulent air that wedged out to about 18" wide at the trailing edge. I thought that was good enough reason to fair them in. It was a slow winter anyway. Photos on Sportflight.com, our Kitfox Photo Archive hosted by Don Pearsall. Browse around while you're in there. Deke http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1007426364 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > > Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone done any streamlining of > the fuel caps and did they even notice an increase in cruise ? > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Smythe" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:43 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > > > Kurt, > > Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring out how to do it but > > basically, you would have to start by cutting out the existing filler with > > a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes a hole that big to get all the > > metal that's epoxied into the tank. Next, install an inspection plate on > > the bottom of the wing just outboard of the tank and adjacent to the hole > > you cut. Now you can work inside the tank (through the hole) and reach > > the outside end (inspection hole) for installing the new vent hole/fitting > > at the outboard top end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside of > > the tank where the new vent hole get's punched. May have to predrill the > > hole since a drill motor might not fit the hole. Wheeee,,,, Now, go pull > > the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe 3/8" aluminum line incased > > in poly all the way through the wing. Fabricate a 90 degree fitting at > > the wing tip end and go out the bottom, bend forward and you are done. > > Mine was installed prior to covering so of course, it was much easier. > > Mine comes out the bottom about half way to the wing tip. The only > > problem I have is when I taxi with full fuel and do a turn, fuel will pee > > out the one vent or the other depending on which way I'm turning. The > > further you go out the wing (dihedral) the higher the vent is. On the > > other hand, it might be just as good to put the vent near the tank and > > live with the little bit of peeing during taxi. > > Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could be done if a person > > just had to do it. Attaching the new recessed filler to the big hole > > would largely depend on what style filler you have. I epoxied in a large > > donut on the inside of the tank hole. This gave me a flange to attach the > > new filler. Then using epoxy and feather light fair everything back in. > > > > Just a quick thought > > Don Smythe > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "kurt schrader" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:47 AM > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation > > > > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > >> > >> > >> Care to elaborated on that design Don? I'd like to > >> see how it could be done easier, since I don't like > >> these big clunky caps and messy vents either. > >> > >> You've got the lead on this one too.... :-) > >> > >> Kurt S. S-5 > >> > >> --- Don Smythe wrote: > >> > >>> Paul, > >>> Thank you. At least, I did something good. I > >>> believe modifying the > >>> existing cap/vent to recessed units and a bottom > >>> vent could be done fairly > >>> easy even with the wings covered and painted. Would > >>> take a little thinking > >>> and design. > >>> > >>> Don Smythe > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:32 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Don, Now you tell me.... :-) Kurt S. Do not archive --- Don Smythe wrote: > I might add one more suggestion if those are > new/never installed tanks. > Clean the outsides very good. Mix up some good > epoxy resin and coat the > entire outside of the tanks. Use a plastic scraper > and put the epoxy on as > thin as you can. Epoxy (especially when lightly > warmed with a hairdryer) > will wick into the smallest of pin holes. This > might just add a little > extra assurance. > > Don Smythe __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson How about one more suggestion, Don....apply a SLIGHT vacuum to the filler cap area via the vent tube and maybe it will help draw the epoxy into those small pin holes...just a thought. A vacuum cleaner might do the trick, or running your car's engine might do it...NOT AT FULL vacuum, though...don't want anybody sucking those expensive tanks into junk! Personally, I did the slosh method, and have over 150 hrs on the plane without (knock on wood) a problem yet. My tanks were 12 yrs old with no fuel ever in them when Frank Miller suggested that I clean and slosh them. I use only avgas...when you burn only 3.3 gals/hour, it's affordable, I feel. Lynn On Tuesday, September 12, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Don Smythe wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > I might add one more suggestion if those are new/never installed > tanks. Clean the outsides very good. Mix up some good epoxy resin and > coat the entire outside of the tanks. Use a plastic scraper and put > the epoxy on as thin as you can. Epoxy (especially when lightly > warmed with a hairdryer) will wick into the smallest of pin holes. > This might just add a little extra assurance. > > Don Smythe > ----- Original Message ----- From: "PWilson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:45 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:42 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I bought a pair of large Piper Cub pully covers from ACS. They are cheap, lightweight plastic and seem to fit over the caps, but I haven't had time to mount them yet. Too many things to do on my list.... But if these work, they are a quick, cheap solution. Anyone else can try them and not lose much of they don't work out for you. Kurt S. --- "Dave G." wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." > > > Seeing that you on topic of fuel caps. Has anyone > done any streamlining > > of the fuel caps and did they even notice an > increase in cruise ? > > > > Dave __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:28 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox and Fuel Starvation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Thanks Guys, I'll keep this for later when I can do more complex changes. Right now I only have time for simple stuff. Kurt S. --- PWilson wrote: > Here is what I did and I think it is easier that > Dons method for a retro fit. > After having the parts in hand it just cut a hole > the size to fit > but left enough tank so the flange fit on top of the > tank. This > method leave some of the old flange imbedded in the > tank top. Then I > chamfered the mounting holes and made very rough > gouges on the back > of the flange so when I bonded the unit to the tank > it would have > lots of grip. Some shaping of the flange was > required to make it fit > flush with the tank. I did not use screws to clamp > the flange, but > you may want to? If so remember that each screw is a > possible leak path. > Then I drilled a hole in the tank end and ran my > 1/4" vent to a > location near the filler - then down. I used safety > wire to hold the > vent pipe to the top of the tank. The safety wire > was brought up so > as to be under the flange for good electrical > contact. The lump of > twisted wire make contact with the flange for the > ground. Then I used > a clamp to the vent line to allow a wire to go to > the spar. I even > drilled small holed in the side of this new vent to > allow a higher > gas level. Read Dons comment of venting at the wing > tip for a better > method. My vent terminated directly straight down. > Then I glued it all together, using 3m epoxy. > Probably not the best > choice but that is what Skystar said to use. Don did > more research > after this and came up with West epoxy. Do your home > work and see > what epoxy is the best now days. > I used some west epoxy filler to smooth everything > out at the cap area. > > ACS has many more filler choices these days for > flush un vented cap > assemblies. I used a UD-3-F about $40? Mine came > with holes in the > flange. The cap is lever operated and has a fat > alcohol compatible Viton o-ring > > See the attached build picture. Notice that the > quick drain has not > been deleted at photo time. Alas, if you study the > pic carefully you > can see the thin Al strip coming from the filler > neck It is the > ground because the safety wire on this tank had poor > contact. I > secured the Al strip with a tiny AL wood screw then > sanded epoxy > filler flush. So much for good intentions :-) > > Regards, Paul > ================ > > At 05:43 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote: > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > > > >Kurt, > > Well, I haven't put too much time in figuring > out how to do it > > but basically, you would have to start by cutting > out the existing > > filler with a hole about 5" in diameter. It takes > a hole that big > > to get all the metal that's epoxied into the tank. > Next, install > > an inspection plate on the bottom of the wing just > outboard of the > > tank and adjacent to the hole you cut. Now you > can work inside the > > tank (through the hole) and reach the outside end > (inspection hole) > > for installing the new vent hole/fitting at the > outboard top > > end. I installed a 1/4" thick boss on the inside > of the tank where > > the new vent hole get's punched. May have to > predrill the hole > > since a drill motor might not fit the hole. > Wheeee,,,, Now, go > > pull the wing tip and run a piece of 1/4" or maybe > 3/8" aluminum > > line incased in poly all the way through the wing. > Fabricate a 90 > > degree fitting at the wing tip end and go out the > bottom, bend > > forward and you are done. > > Mine was installed prior to covering so of > course, it was much > > easier. Mine comes out the bottom about half way > to the wing > > tip. The only problem I have is when I taxi with > full fuel and do > > a turn, fuel will pee out the one vent or the > other depending on > > which way I'm turning. The further you go out the > wing (dihedral) > > the higher the vent is. On the other hand, it > might be just as > > good to put the vent near the tank and live with > the little bit of > > peeing during taxi. > > Maybe this ain't so easy afterall but, it could > be done if a > > person just had to do it. Attaching the new > recessed filler to the > > big hole would largely depend on what style filler > you have. I > > epoxied in a large donut on the inside of the tank > hole. This gave > > me a flange to attach the new filler. Then using > epoxy and feather > > light fair everything back in. > > > >Just a quick thought > >Don Smythe __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:17 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Source for strut fairings???????????? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I made my own out of foam, carbon fiber and S glass. Michel (Norway) and a friend of his from France greatly helped with the design! This list is great! Anyway, very light, but more effort. Gained 10% in speed! The carbon fiber adds stiffness but is not impact resistant (NASA-pay attention!) The S-glass and West Epoxy made them quite hard. I think the whole thing weighs 7 lbs, but I estimated up to 40 lbs in additional lift and a hugh reduction in drag. They lift themselves, stiffen the strut and make you go faster. A gain all around, except you will float until you get use to the drag reduction. :-) Fairing profile available on request. Kurt S. S-5 --- Dwayne wrote: > I am searching for a supplier for the PVC strut > fairings. Any help would be appreciated. __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:09 AM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale Howzit go'in Jeff......... Is the new plane com'in along well? Now don't forget that before ya sell the Fox, I still get my first ride in it...Our T-Craft is out at C77 now waiting for final assembly. It may fly this year. Our new T-28 shop is coming along ok and we have already started the T-28 project. Hope to talk soon, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Fox5flyer To: Kitfox List Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:46 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale I'm forwarding this for Jeff Hays who is not on list. Reply to the address below. Deke I have a set of Bearhawk plans for sale, unused for $200 if you know anybody interested they're $275 from Bob Barrows. Also a set of KR-2S plans for $175 which are $240 from Rand Robinson now. Bought both at various points when thinking about other projects. Regards, Jeff Hays jeff.hays@bankofamerica.com ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:27 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. This is news to me Dave. As far as I know, the Kreem is still fine. The only reason it was a problem with Skystar supplied tanks is that the mold release wasn't cleaned out of the inside of the tanks prior to applying the Kreem which caused it to eventually peel off of the inside surface. Cleaning the tanks with MEK or Acetone then reapplying Kreem 50/50 was a good fix. Some were able to get away with using no slosh at all. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. Sloshing compound was found to be coming off on some aircraft and I think currently you are not supposed to use it. I could be wrong. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fox5flyer To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. small web cam on a dowel? Cool! Why is sloshing out? Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. I have one tank that is weeping through the glass. I see Skystar had this problem and offered replacement at one time. Is there any way to repair this? from the outside? Inside? Sloshing seems to be out, I had as good a look inside the tank as possible with a small webcam on a dowel and they seem in good shape other than the small spots shown as dark on the masking tape. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:04 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Fw: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale Sorry list about this message. I should have sent it direct to Jeff. Ron N55KF DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Liebmann Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale Howzit go'in Jeff......... Is the new plane com'in along well? Now don't forget that before ya sell the Fox, I still get my first ride in it...Our T-Craft is out at C77 now waiting for final assembly. It may fly this year. Our new T-28 shop is coming along ok and we have already started the T-28 project. Hope to talk soon, Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Fox5flyer To: Kitfox List Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:46 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft plans for sale I'm forwarding this for Jeff Hays who is not on list. Reply to the address below. Deke I have a set of Bearhawk plans for sale, unused for $200 if you know anybody interested they're $275 from Bob Barrows. Also a set of KR-2S plans for $175 which are $240 from Rand Robinson now. Bought both at various points when thinking about other projects. Regards, Jeff Hays jeff.hays@bankofamerica.com ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:41 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Kurt, You mean you didn't do that. I remember telling you 7 years ago to be sure and coat the outsides. Also, the one post that mentioned putting on a vacuum might work even better. Don Smythe Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" > Don, > > Now you tell me.... :-) > > Kurt S. > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:17 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 06:27 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote: >I wanted to get the word out that EAA chapter 14 in San Diego, CA is >hosting a Kitfox fly-in this Saturday, September 16th at Brown Field. I'll be there with the Red & White Kitfox. (Brown's inside my test fly box.) I'm trying to get Harold (from Ramona) to come down too. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:17 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 07:39 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote: >Dave, I faired mine in both front and back sides. Love the fairings but what I want to know is, howinaheck do ya get the caps off? I have to use my whole hand to get mine off. (Kinda stiff.) Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:15 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Just use the pitot tubes. They're plenty strong. Just keep a little lube on the gasket. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: on fuel caps --what about fairings? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > > At 07:39 AM 9/12/2006, you wrote: > >Dave, I faired mine in both front and back sides. > > Love the fairings but what I want to know is, howinaheck do ya get the caps > off? I have to use my whole hand to get mine off. (Kinda stiff.) > > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:01 PM PST US From: "Andrew Matthaey" Subject: Kitfox-List: New Kitfox CFI --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andrew Matthaey" Hello List... Well, it's official - I am now a CFI/CFII/MEI ! Currently I'm in the Jacksonville, FL area to Flight Instruct, but have no idea where I'll be in the coming weeks and months... So, if any lister here is in need of a Kitfox CFI, I would be more than happy to offer my services free of charge to help anybody out...Just shoot me an email offlist or feel free to call. Andrew KF3 646.354.3252 _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:12 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox Fuel System (Posted at request of Guy Buchanan) I wanted to upload these pictures of my Kitfox fuel system. There's been some discussion about loops in lines so I wanted to show my system which runs entirely "down-hill". The tank to header lines are 3/8". The header vent is 1/4". The header to fuel pump, (not shown,) is 3/8". Thanks, Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:00 PM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Factory help --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" I'll second that!! Roger Mac DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Pearsall Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:17 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Factory help --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" I just want to chime and also give kudos to John and Debra McBean for even being ON this Kitfox List. I have been a member of the KF list for about 11 years, and John is the ONLY "official" Kitfox factory rep to participate and help the KF list members. And all for FREE. From Dan Denney, to Phil Reed, to Ed Downs, John is the only one to be an active member of this group. He is a Kitfox expert, and is the key to keeping the Kitfox line going. So please appreciate what John is doing, and thank him for the contributions that he has made. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Liebmann Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" I too any very happy with the responses that I get from John & Debra. They get back to me fast if I have to leave a message but usually they just answer the phone. Congratulations to them for what they are doing for us! They deserve our full support far more than previous owners. Ron N55KF Model 2/582C DO NOT ARCHIVE > > I have just had support for my Mod IV from the new Kitfox folk, and spoke > to Mr McBean on the phone. I can't really find fault with the support I > recieved, parts were sent reasonably quickly. I expect that things are > still being sorted out, most emails have been answered within a day or > two. ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:27:56 PM PST US From: Herbert R Gottelt Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Factory help Dave and Diane wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane Regarding the comments about the new Kitfox owners. I feel that I need to speak up because my experience with John and Debra has been excellent; particularily since they are now occupied with the setup and development of the new company. Their new responsibilities; by necessity, cannot help but create some real challenges with balancing everything they need to do - its got to be a big job. First and formost, John and Debra have demonstrated to me that they are ethical people, they have been truthful and honest in all their dealings with me. I have been lied to by OTHER people in the past (some little thing about a measly $18,000 discrepancy and a year's history of blaming someone else for not delivering it). I can confidently say that John and Debra have been absolutely honest with me and that counts for everything. When they were at Oshkosh, obviously they could not be at two places at once, and a person would not have been able to communicate with them immediately. Things happen in cyber world too. While I consider myself somewhat capable in dealing with computers and e-mail, it is very apparent to me that electronic communication systems and those of us operating them have their flaws and hick-ups. I have long ago considered that sometimes an e-mail doesn't go through, or some screening software erroneously filters it out; or, God forbid, my Norwegian fingers don't match up with the keyboard and I type an incorrect character in an e-mail address - I found out it only takes one.... I have long ago decided that it is better not to jump to conclusions when I don't hear back on an e-mail - just go about my business and try to figure out what went wrong. I can't claim to know the whys and whats of someone else's experience; but I would certainly say that (Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" ) is not at all what I have seen and I would certainly recommend that if you do get in touch with John and Debra and you are reasonable with them, they will take care of their business with you, they will be honest and fair. Sincerely, Dave S St Paul, MN I agree with the super comments above 100%. John and Debra will always do their utmost to bring back every customer from way back and prove reliability, honesty and super customer service whenever possible. Herb Gottelt M4-1200UL On Monday 11 September 2006 5:26 pm, dcsfoto wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:17 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fly In IMT Gang, Our EAA Chapter is having a Fly-In this weekend, sorry I spaced it off until now to post it for the list in case anyone is looking for someplace to fly to this Saturday. It is at the Iron Mountain Ford Airport "IMT". We couple it with a car show, we have 2 aerobatics routines performing this year, warbirds, rides and food and much more. Last year we had the Shockley Jet truck race a Pitts down the runway, you can see a video of it at the web site. Check it out at www.eaa439.org there is also some pics from 04 Ford Airport Day under the pics section. Would love to see some of you make it up for the event. Lloyd ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:00 PM PST US From: Malcolmbru@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: How smart are you ? No mater how smart you are it is always what you don't know that gets you in trouble. When I don't know why my plain is broke I become very beside my self. That is I cant even explain the variety of things I feal. But as pilot in command I must remember it is my responsibility and I must never blame anyone. To become an aviator one must realize they are embarking on a journey that may take a lifetime and still may never reveal the true destination. I guess that is why they say it's getting there not being there that's all the fun. if not for people like Mr. McBean and there are a lot of them, most of us would never get off the ground. Malcolm Michigan kit foxer ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:42 PM PST US From: WBL Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th --> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL I will try to make it down! N102KM KF Classic IV, Lake Riverside, Pete -----Original Message----- >From: Jake Lewis >Sent: Sep 12, 2006 6:27 AM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th > >Hello All, > > I wanted to get the word out that EAA chapter 14 in San Diego, CA is hosting a Kitfox fly-in this Saturday, September 16th at Brown Field. I contacted the chapter event coordinator to ask how many Kitfox's they were expecting and he had no idea. He said that he was relying on the word to travel through the Kitfox community. > > I am thinking about purchasing a Kitfox in the near future and was hoping this event would give me a chance to see several aircraft and speak to their owners. Here is chapter 14's web site in case you have any questions http://www.eaa14.org > > Please spread the word! > > Hope to see you there, > Jake Lewis > > >--------------------------------- > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:51 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Sloshing the tanks works ok so long as theey are flushed out well to get rid of the waxy coat left from the mold. Detergent is no good, MEK or the likes is needed. From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson How about one more suggestion, Don....apply a SLIGHT vacuum to the filler cap area via the vent tube and maybe it will help draw the epoxy into those small pin holes...just a thought. A vacuum cleaner might do the trick, or running your car's engine might do it...NOT AT FULL vacuum, though...don't want anybody sucking those expensive tanks into junk! Personally, I did the slosh method, and have over 150 hrs on the plane without (knock on wood) a problem yet. My tanks were 12 yrs old with no fuel ever in them when Frank Miller suggested that I clean and slosh them. I use only avgas...when you burn only 3.3 gals/hour, it's affordable, I feel. Lynn On Tuesday, September 12, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Don Smythe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > >I might add one more suggestion if those are new/never installed tanks. >Clean the outsides very good. Mix up some good epoxy resin and coat the >entire outside of the tanks. Use a plastic scraper and put the epoxy on as >thin as you can. Epoxy (especially when lightly warmed with a hairdryer) >will wick into the smallest of pin holes. This might just add a little >extra assurance. > >Don Smythe >----- Original Message ----- From: "PWilson" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:45 AM >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leaky fuel tanks. _________________________________________________________________ Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment