Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount (kirkhull)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount (Dave)
3. 06:01 AM - broken tailwheel spring (Lynn Matteson)
4. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount (Michel Verheughe)
5. 06:42 AM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (Michel Verheughe)
6. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount (kirkhull)
7. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount (Ron Liebmann)
8. 08:43 AM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (Jerry)
9. 09:02 AM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (kurt schrader)
10. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount (kurt schrader)
11. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount (Dan Billingsley)
12. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount (Michel Verheughe)
13. 10:38 AM - Jabiru. WAS: broken tailwheel spring (Michel Verheughe)
14. 10:48 AM - Re: [Off-topic] Kiwiana (Michel Verheughe)
15. 10:50 AM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (jdmcbean)
16. 11:35 AM - Updated (Lowell Fitt)
17. 04:16 PM - Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (thanks Lowell) (Ceashman@aol.com)
18. 04:20 PM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (Lynn Matteson)
19. 05:18 PM - Grove gear (Rex Shaw)
20. 05:40 PM - Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (parahawk)
21. 05:57 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (jdmcbean)
22. 06:04 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (Brett Walmsley)
23. 06:22 PM - Re: Grove gear (Lowell Fitt)
24. 06:24 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (Lowell Fitt)
25. 07:20 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (kirkhull)
26. 07:20 PM - Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (thanks Lowell) (kirkhull)
27. 08:55 PM - Airfoils on empanage (Bob Unternaehrer)
28. 09:40 PM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (ron schick)
29. 10:04 PM - Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Nick Scholtes)
30. 10:13 PM - Re: CNBC Video segment and video (Lowell Fitt)
31. 10:26 PM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (Lowell Fitt)
32. 10:31 PM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Lowell Fitt)
33. 10:42 PM - need landing gear (John Allen)
34. 11:07 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (parahawk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
I would not even buy a BRS unless you are flying over very nasty areas. The
kitfox can land just about anywhere if you just maintain control and fly the
airplane. With the BRS , once you pull the handle you go down a little
slower but you have no control over where you go down.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of parahawk
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "parahawk" <alfi98596@yahoo.com>
I have not got the BRS yet and my plane is built. BRS tells me they only
suitable chute is the 1350 softpack mounted inside in the baggage area.
they sent a drawing similar to yours but it has the Bridle routed through
the fabric to the outside and around the fuselage and covered with a double
sided tape to hold it agains the fuselage. Seems to me me kind of an
unusual procedure, but I really don't know and probably have to go with
their suggestion.
Thanks
Al
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62024#62024
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
So true,
My motta is if the aeroplane needa parachute -- I will not be in it.
Dave
PS If any Kitfoxes in SW Ontario a few are going to Reeces Corners for
breakfast soon . Last minute deal here
Reeces Corner is a grass strip just east of Sarnia Port Huron and in CFS
we 1/8 mile vis now but should lift in next hour or so.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kirkhull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I would not even buy a BRS unless you are flying over very nasty areas.
> The
> kitfox can land just about anywhere if you just maintain control and fly
> the
> airplane. With the BRS , once you pull the handle you go down a little
> slower but you have no control over where you go down.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of parahawk
> Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 8:19 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "parahawk" <alfi98596@yahoo.com>
>
> I have not got the BRS yet and my plane is built. BRS tells me they only
> suitable chute is the 1350 softpack mounted inside in the baggage area.
> they sent a drawing similar to yours but it has the Bridle routed through
> the fabric to the outside and around the fuselage and covered with a
> double
> sided tape to hold it agains the fuselage. Seems to me me kind of an
> unusual procedure, but I really don't know and probably have to go with
> their suggestion.
> Thanks
> Al
>
> --------
> Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62024#62024
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break yesterday during taxi,
just after landing on a grass runway...slightly bumpy surface.
Fortunately I had a spare leaf that my instructor and I changed out
rather quickly. Now I'll be looking for a replacement spring. The plane
now has just over 158 hours on it. How are other 'fox owners finding
the tailwheel springs holding up? Mine uses the main spring, and one
other "booster" spring leaf. My main broke just about a half-inch
forward of the tapered end of the booster spring leaf.
Lynn
Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:30 PM, kirkhull wrote:
> I would not even buy a BRS unless you are flying over very nasty areas.
I tend to agree with you and Dave, Kirk.
I won't argue against BRS ballistic chute, safety is something
personal. Have one if it gives you peace of mind. But I don't want one
because I am afraid to use it ... when I don't really need it. Once
deployed, the chute takes you wherever the wind blows. You are no
longer a pilot, merely a passenger taken by the wind.
Which condition would call for the chute? Loosing a wing? I don't think
any Kitfox has ever done that and when it happened at my airfield, to a
Jora ultralight, the pilot, in the mad spin, didn't manage to release
the chute.
Of course, ballistic chute manufacturers will show you many cases of
accidents where life was saved by their product. ... or was it? How do
you know the end of an event that didn't happen?
In any case, my philosophy is to fly as the European utralight rule
obliges us to: Always with a possible landing site in sight. Apart from
loosing entirely a wing, I can't think of what could happen to my
Kitfox, that would require a chute. I can climb or descend on the
throttle only. I can turn with only the flaperon or the rudder. What
else could happen? Please correct me if I miss something.
I think my, and my eventual passenger's safety, is better served by
frequent training like dead-stick landings and manoeuvring without one
control surface. I have never landed without touching the elevator,
though. But I know I could make a non-fatal landing without it.
Ballistic chutes are like survival rafts at sea. When it gets pretty
nasty, one thinks: "I wanna go home and pronto!" But the safest way
home is not always the shortest one.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Sep 17, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break yesterday during
> taxi, just after landing on a grass runway...
I am sorry to hear that, Lynn. I broke mine this summer after about 450
hours and twice as many landings. I had only one leaf and now, I have
two; the main one and probably what you call the "booster" one.
My main one (the only one, at the time) snapped about half way. I got a
new one from Lowell and with the extra leaf (that I should have
installed long before but it needed modification and ... I was lazy) it
looks strong enough as it is.
I am surprised to see that yours broke, even with the "booster." Maybe
it wasn't long enough. Next time I go to my plane, I'll take a photo of
my tail spring as it is now.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
There are other reasons for a BRS but they just don't happen enough to worry
about. I don't know the exact #s but I don't believe the Brs brings you
down much slower then the stall speed of a fox. There have been some cases
where the BRS was deployed when all the pilot needed to do was Switch tanks
or pull carb heat. The end result was a destroyed aircraft ( even with a
BRS the plane will be substantially damaged on landing even if you land in
an open field)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:30 PM, kirkhull wrote:
> I would not even buy a BRS unless you are flying over very nasty areas.
I tend to agree with you and Dave, Kirk.
I won't argue against BRS ballistic chute, safety is something
personal. Have one if it gives you peace of mind. But I don't want one
because I am afraid to use it ... when I don't really need it. Once
deployed, the chute takes you wherever the wind blows. You are no
longer a pilot, merely a passenger taken by the wind.
Which condition would call for the chute? Loosing a wing? I don't think
any Kitfox has ever done that and when it happened at my airfield, to a
Jora ultralight, the pilot, in the mad spin, didn't manage to release
the chute.
Of course, ballistic chute manufacturers will show you many cases of
accidents where life was saved by their product. ... or was it? How do
you know the end of an event that didn't happen?
In any case, my philosophy is to fly as the European utralight rule
obliges us to: Always with a possible landing site in sight. Apart from
loosing entirely a wing, I can't think of what could happen to my
Kitfox, that would require a chute. I can climb or descend on the
throttle only. I can turn with only the flaperon or the rudder. What
else could happen? Please correct me if I miss something.
I think my, and my eventual passenger's safety, is better served by
frequent training like dead-stick landings and manoeuvring without one
control surface. I have never landed without touching the elevator,
though. But I know I could make a non-fatal landing without it.
Ballistic chutes are like survival rafts at sea. When it gets pretty
nasty, one thinks: "I wanna go home and pronto!" But the safest way
home is not always the shortest one.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
I agree with Michel's quote: "Once you deploy the chute you are no longer
in control of the plane." The reason I put the BRS in my plane is
because I fly in a high traffic area with students all around. If I were to
have a mid-air without the chute I'm a gonner. But the NTSB says that it is
usually not the mid-air that kills you, its the crash at the end of the
fall.
The chute gives me much peace of mind.
Ron N55KF
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" <vcmi@lewiston.com>
Hi, I am Jerry in Lewiston Idaho and I have a Kitfox 1/2/4, ie it is a
modified l with improvements up thru 4. I have removed a Rotax 583 fwf and
am installing a Jabiru 2200. I would like info from anyone that has a
Jabiru conversion. On the tail wheel thing, I have had problems with
several tail wheel airplanes over the years and it appears that in those
that broke or came loose it could be traced to reverse caster in the way the
pivot pin of the tail wheel slopes or angles as it sits on the ground. I
must caster or slope slightly rearward so the wheel tends to trail. If this
is not the case you get a lot of vibration, not always noticeable in the
cockpit but nevertheless it is beating up the spring and attach point.
Would like to hear from those with Jabiru engines. Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:03 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: broken tailwheel spring
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break yesterday during taxi,
> just after landing on a grass runway...slightly bumpy surface. Fortunately
> I had a spare leaf that my instructor and I changed out rather quickly.
> Now I'll be looking for a replacement spring. The plane now has just over
> 158 hours on it. How are other 'fox owners finding the tailwheel springs
> holding up? Mine uses the main spring, and one other "booster" spring
> leaf. My main broke just about a half-inch forward of the tapered end of
> the booster spring leaf.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
My S-5 has 2 full springs, but the upper one has to
have a bolt slot, not simply a hole at the tailwheel
end. This gives full redundancy, but avoids the
stress on the bolt/spring when they bend at different
radi.
Lynn, I think that the half spring only makes a stress
point on the main spring. If there are several
different lengths of thinner helper springs, the load
is better distributed and less likely to break the
main spring.
Don't know how my double spring will work out over
time, but it seems to give me redundancy, if one
breaks. Enough to get home and replace the broken
one?
Kurt S. S-5
--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break
> yesterday during taxi,
> just after landing on a grass runway...slightly
> bumpy surface.
> Fortunately I had a spare leaf that my instructor
> and I changed out
> rather quickly. Now I'll be looking for a
> replacement spring. The plane
> now has just over 158 hours on it. How are other
> 'fox owners finding
> the tailwheel springs holding up? Mine uses the main
> spring, and one
> other "booster" spring leaf. My main broke just
> about a half-inch
> forward of the tapered end of the booster spring
> leaf.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
__________________________________________________
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I thought seriously about getting one for my plane
because I intend to fly over rough terrain and at
higher altitude where stall speed will be much higher
ground speed. It would give peace of mind when there
is no place to land.
I think if you have an operating engine and rudder,
you can steer it a little like a decending blimp and
pick a better spot, if close and you have time. That
means the cause for using it is not the engine/prop.
I understand it will give a 20 mph verticle hit to the
plane. That is about 30 feet per second vs 5 feet per
second max for a "normal" landing.
For consideration:
When checking the accident records for all Fox's, back
around 2000, there were none that would have been
saved by a BRS. The highest failure points were
stalls on takeoff at about 300 feet. Not enough time
to deploy.
Second, my chute was 39 lbs.
Third, and the clincher was that there were no rockets
available for my chute when I wanted one due to the
NTSB restrictions after the Florida crash.
So I don't have one, but may add one later if the
mental work calls for it when I move to the Rockies.
As Michel said, it becomes a personal safety decision
in the end.
Kurt S.
__________________________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount |
All of these reasons are sound...whether you choose to install a BRS or not. I
tend to agree with Ron, as I too fly in a highly concentrated area of student
training. I have had one close encounter of the worst kind due to someone simply
not following proceedure. You tend to remember those things and plan accordingly.
If you are clipped and loose control, there's not one of us here that
would mind having that rip chord behind you.
Dan, Mesa
314DW
Ron Liebmann <rliebmann@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann"
I agree with Michel's quote: "Once you deploy the chute you are no longer
in control of the plane." The reason I put the BRS in my plane is
because I fly in a high traffic area with students all around. If I were to
have a mid-air without the chute I'm a gonner. But the NTSB says that it is
usually not the mid-air that kills you, its the crash at the end of the
fall.
The chute gives me much peace of mind.
Ron N55KF
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Sep 17, 2006, at 6:47 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:
> I tend to agree with Ron, as I too fly in a highly concentrated area
> of student training.
That is, indeed, a good argument. Just like the inflatable raft is a
good thing in a yacht that burns down, in calm waters. But my personal
consideration is also the fear of using it in panic and not when really
needed. Like, what do I do if I find myself suddenly in IMC? Getting
out of it by pulling he cord is tempting, but maybe not wise when I
don't even see what's under me. Could I resist the temptation?
Just a thought.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 13
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| Subject: | Jabiru. WAS: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Hello Jerry,
On Sep 17, 2006, at 5:43 PM, Jerry wrote:
> I have removed a Rotax 583 fwf and am installing a Jabiru 2200. I
> would like info from anyone that has a Jabiru conversion.
I change my 582 for a Jabiru 2200, one and half year ago, on my Kitfox
model 3. Since then I have been flying 160 hours of pure delight. In a
nutshell, the Jabiru is a good engine, easy to install, but most of the
work is in the modification of the cowling that will make the engine
room a good air circulation chamber and keep the engine cool. Since you
have already brought a model 1 to model 4, I guess working with
fiberglass won't scare you. Try to do it exactly as your Jabiru dealer
tells you to. The outlet, under the firewall must be 4 times as big as
the two ram air ducts, and oil cooler inlet, combined. To really move
the air, the outlet must be shaped to create a low pressure. Mine has a
scoop that is tilted 45 degrees and ... it really sucks! (if you excuse
my pund! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: [Off-topic] Kiwiana |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:42 AM, John Anderson wrote:
> Oooh Michel, might just be a wee bit far for even a Fox..Kiwiana. Come
> in the big metal one then we can fly around in mine..
I have no problem spending some holidays in Kiwiana, John. My son and
his wife has already been in your country twice, for holidays. And they
have been in nearly all the countries on all the continents. But it's a
long way. The antipode, actually. I remember, some years ago, I met a
NZ ham on the CW (Morse) wavebands. Then we wondered if our signals
were going over the north pole or the south pole. Further away from
Norway ... it's difficult to get.
BTW, a Norwegian grocery store chain is called Kiwi. www.kiwi.no
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Lynn,
Give us a shout we have a 3 leaf that several have used with good results.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:03 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: broken tailwheel spring
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break yesterday during taxi,
just after landing on a grass runway...slightly bumpy surface.
Fortunately I had a spare leaf that my instructor and I changed out
rather quickly. Now I'll be looking for a replacement spring. The plane
now has just over 158 hours on it. How are other 'fox owners finding
the tailwheel springs holding up? Mine uses the main spring, and one
other "booster" spring leaf. My main broke just about a half-inch
forward of the tapered end of the booster spring leaf.
Lynn
Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
Message 16
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I have updated the following. Updates will appear, again, after the traffic
subsides.
Lowell
Don S
Jim Gilliatt
John A.
Ted Palamarek
Dan Billingsley
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (thanks Lowell) |
>Attached is the organized data from the engine type survey.
>Keep me posted if there are any other that want to be on it.
>Lowell
______________________________________________________________________
Hi Lowell.
That is a pretty good spreadsheet you made of/for everyone.
That took a lot of evening time and we appreciate your perseverance in
accumulating the data.
I am sure I can say; "Thanks from all of us".
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
So one of the leafs has to bend at a different radius than the other,
hence the slotted leaf. Does this bolt just get tightened to a drag fit
then? This seems like a good idea in theory, but I'm thinking that it
leaves the tailwheel bracket-to-main leaf a little less than tight? Any
problems in that respect?
Lyn
On Sunday, September 17, 2006, at 12:01 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> My S-5 has 2 full springs, but the upper one has to
> have a bolt slot, not simply a hole at the tailwheel
> end. This gives full redundancy, but avoids the
> stress on the bolt/spring when they bend at different
> radi.
>
> Lynn, I think that the half spring only makes a stress
> point on the main spring. If there are several
> different lengths of thinner helper springs, the load
> is better distributed and less likely to break the
> main spring.
>
> Don't know how my double spring will work out over
> time, but it seems to give me redundancy, if one
> breaks. Enough to get home and replace the broken
> one?
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
>> I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break
>> yesterday during taxi,
>> just after landing on a grass runway...slightly
>> bumpy surface.
>> Fortunately I had a spare leaf that my instructor
>> and I changed out
>> rather quickly. Now I'll be looking for a
>> replacement spring. The plane
>> now has just over 158 hours on it. How are other
>> 'fox owners finding
>> the tailwheel springs holding up? Mine uses the main
>> spring, and one
>> other "booster" spring leaf. My main broke just
>> about a half-inch
>> forward of the tapered end of the booster spring
>> leaf.
>>
>> Lynn
>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
Message 19
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i am thinking of
upgrading to grove gear and would like any opinions on doing so.
Ron,
I have Grove gear and love it. On the other hand I have no
experience with tube gear. However in my opinion Grove gear seems a bit
more robust and has a wider track. Logically this means it will not
groundloop quite as easilly.
Rex.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "parahawk" <alfi98596@yahoo.com>
I bought the plane with a bolted wing/cotter pin at the leading edge because the
previous owner never folded the wings. I am planning to fold the wings more
often and I wonder if I can use a clevis pin or how was it designed in the first
place ??
Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??
Thanks [Question]
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62167#62167
Message 21
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| Subject: | Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Typically used is a AN395-85 Clevis Pin.. Use a safety clip through the hole
in the pin.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of parahawk
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "parahawk" <alfi98596@yahoo.com>
I bought the plane with a bolted wing/cotter pin at the leading edge
because the previous owner never folded the wings. I am planning to fold the
wings more often and I wonder if I can use a clevis pin or how was it
designed in the first place ??
Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??
Thanks [Question]
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62167#62167
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brett Walmsley" <n93hj@numail.org>
original is a pin with a safety clip.
I will use a bolt with a wing nut and safety clip.
--------
Brett
Model IV 1200/912UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62172#62172
Message 23
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I too have the aluminum spring gear. All great except the one negative, it
will add about 15 lbs to the empty wt of the airplane. I have friends that
are more concerned with short field performance and every pound is a real
negative for them.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:47 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Grove gear
i am thinking of
upgrading to grove gear and would like any opinions on doing so.
Ron,
I have Grove gear and love it. On the other hand I have no
experience with tube gear. However in my opinion Grove gear seems a bit
more robust and has a wider track. Logically this means it will not
groundloop quite as easilly.
Rex.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
The clevis pin and spring clip is the ofiginal design.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "parahawk" <alfi98596@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 5:39 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "parahawk" <alfi98596@yahoo.com>
>
> I bought the plane with a bolted wing/cotter pin at the leading edge
> because the previous owner never folded the wings. I am planning to fold
> the wings more often and I wonder if I can use a clevis pin or how was it
> designed in the first place ??
> Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??
>
> Thanks [Question]
>
> --------
> Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62167#62167
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kirkhull" <kirkhull@sbcglobal.net>
Make sure you use aircraft parts. I would not trust a part from the
hardware store for this. You can probably order the pins from kitfox.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of parahawk
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "parahawk" <alfi98596@yahoo.com>
I bought the plane with a bolted wing/cotter pin at the leading edge
because the previous owner never folded the wings. I am planning to fold the
wings more often and I wonder if I can use a clevis pin or how was it
designed in the first place ??
Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??
Thanks [Question]
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62167#62167
Message 26
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| Subject: | Aircraft Model, Engine etc (thanks Lowell) |
Can you resend this. I did not get the attachment
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ceashman@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (thanks Lowell)
>Attached is the organized data from the engine type survey.
>Keep me posted if there are any other that want to be on it.
>Lowell
______________________________________________________________________
Hi Lowell.
That is a pretty good spreadsheet you made of/for everyone.
That took a lot of evening time and we appreciate your perseverance in
accumulating the data.
I am sure I can say; "Thanks from all of us".
Message 27
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| Subject: | Airfoils on empanage |
Does anyone have some pics or drawings with dimensions of the "airfoil"
type empennage that I think was used on the Late model 4 and up? I
think it was an option and used plywood ribs that were either bowed in
like a symmetrical airfoil or maybe just bowed on top like the wing
airfoil.
Also what was the Idea of using it as opposed to a "flat" surface on the
empennage?
Was it used only on the horizontal and vertical stabs or did it include
the rudder and elevator?
Is it still used today on the mod VII etc?
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom@mcmsys.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Airfoils on empanage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Bob My Speedster has light plywood ribs in the stabs and elavator/rudder.
Non on the fuselage other than the wooden stringer along each side. Did
you ever get your valley redrive to work? Still tinkering with mine.
Ron NB Ore
>From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Airfoils on empanage
>Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:03:53 -0500
>
>Does anyone have some pics or drawings with dimensions of the "airfoil"
>type empennage that I think was used on the Late model 4 and up? I think
>it was an option and used plywood ribs that were either bowed in like a
>symmetrical airfoil or maybe just bowed on top like the wing airfoil.
>
>Also what was the Idea of using it as opposed to a "flat" surface on the
>empennage?
>
>Was it used only on the horizontal and vertical stabs or did it include the
>rudder and elevator?
>
>Is it still used today on the mod VII etc?
>
>Blue Skies
>Bob Unternaehrer
>shilocom@mcmsys.com
_________________________________________________________________
Message 29
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| Subject: | Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Hi KitFox Owners!
My name is Nick Scholtes and I'm a typical renter/CFI who flies and
teaches in all of the Cessna and Piper products that you find at the
local FBO. However, I live on a farm in Illinois where I have a pasture
that would make a perfect Kitfox airstrip (about 800'), and I have an
old cattle shed that would make a perfect hangar. So, I want to own my
own airplane, for the first time in my life.
Problem is, the "hangar" has an overhead door that is big enough to get
tractors in, but not big enough to get an airplane in with the wings
spread. The door is 14' wide, 11' tall.
I'm really attracted to the Kitfox IV, and have seen many wonderful Kitfox
IV's for sale in excellent condition. I've never actually flown one,
however, and have never actually seen the wings folded or the folding
procedure.
So, my questions are: Is it practical to fold the wings each time you
put the KitFox IV away? Or is the folding mechanism more like one of
those "you only want to do it once a season" kind of things? How long
does it REALLY take for a regular guy to fold the wings? Is it
practical to store the 'Fox in an enclosed trailer? I know what the
sales brochures say, but what is the REAL story?
Any advice would be appreciated!
Best Regards,
Nick Scholtes
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: CNBC Video segment and video |
List
I have finally finished the DVD with the CNBC segment (s) and the two video
shoots from which the CNBC producer picked a few seconds of video for her
editing.
I will duplicate them for anyone that would like one. I think I will need
about $6 for the DVD which will include mail. I have attached 3 images
clipped from the video for a little bit of a heads-up on what is there.
If you would like one sent out, please contact me at:
lcfitt@sbcglobal,net
Lowell
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Bob,
The airfoil was not continuous across the Horizontal Stab - elevator, but
rather ribs that created a rough airfoil shape on the horizontal and
elevator separately converging at the tube diameters at the hinge line.
I created an overall airfoil shape largely due to ignorance as I had
purchased the trim tab cutout and didn't know how to create the room in the
horizontal stab for the servo and U-channel that was the hinge line at the
trim tab. I made the ribs of medium density foam with glass laminations on
the flats. The foam was 1/4" and there is a drawing on the Sportflight web
site of the gap seal design.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1041348095
Regarding the airfoil: There was talk on the Lancair list after a couple of
stall spin accidents where a suggestion was made that the elevator might
have stalled contributing to the inability of the pilot to recover from the
stall. I had never considered this, but the suggestion was made by several
of the gurus on that list that a properly designed airfoil would reduce the
tendency of the elevator to stall.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 9:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Airfoils on empanage
Does anyone have some pics or drawings with dimensions of the "airfoil" type
empennage that I think was used on the Late model 4 and up? I think it was
an option and used plywood ribs that were either bowed in like a symmetrical
airfoil or maybe just bowed on top like the wing airfoil.
Also what was the Idea of using it as opposed to a "flat" surface on the
empennage?
Was it used only on the horizontal and vertical stabs or did it include the
rudder and elevator?
Is it still used today on the mod VII etc?
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom@mcmsys.com
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Nick,
One of the guys in the No Calif flying group folds and trailers every
flight. He doesn't even have the luxury of a cattle shed on the strip. I
think he's pushing 600 hours. There has been some talk of the difficulty of
keeping the fuel lines routed properly with the folding and unfolding. With
proper assembly, It needn't be a problem. At least Larry has never had a
problem or spoken of one.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is it practical to fold wings each flight?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
>
> Hi KitFox Owners!
>
> My name is Nick Scholtes and I'm a typical renter/CFI who flies and
> teaches in all of the Cessna and Piper products that you find at the
> local FBO. However, I live on a farm in Illinois where I have a pasture
> that would make a perfect Kitfox airstrip (about 800'), and I have an
> old cattle shed that would make a perfect hangar. So, I want to own my
> own airplane, for the first time in my life.
>
> Problem is, the "hangar" has an overhead door that is big enough to get
> tractors in, but not big enough to get an airplane in with the wings
> spread. The door is 14' wide, 11' tall.
>
> I'm really attracted to the Kitfox IV, and have seen many wonderful Kitfox
> IV's for sale in excellent condition. I've never actually flown one,
> however, and have never actually seen the wings folded or the folding
> procedure.
>
> So, my questions are: Is it practical to fold the wings each time you
> put the KitFox IV away? Or is the folding mechanism more like one of
> those "you only want to do it once a season" kind of things? How long
> does it REALLY take for a regular guy to fold the wings? Is it
> practical to store the 'Fox in an enclosed trailer? I know what the
> sales brochures say, but what is the REAL story?
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nick Scholtes
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | need landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Allen <kitfoxfugit@yahoo.com>
I started flying with the Grove gear, wheels and
brakes a week ago on a Kitfox IV Speedster with 912UL.
The original landing gear, consisting of
fabric-covered welded tubes suspended with bungees,
lousy brakes, one piece wheels and square shouldered
trailer tires, was a squirrly beast on takeoff and
landing, always wanting to dart off to the side.
After breaking a bungee on a bounced landing, I
decided to change it.
Now, it is all improved from the fuselage down,
aluminum gear, real airplane wheels, excellent brakes
and 6:00 x 6 airplane tires. It tracks straight
taxiing (even with feet off the pedals), taking off,
and landing. It is very stable. Land on one wheel
and it will settle onto the other. Get blown crooked
and a little rudder pressure brings it straight. It
is one piece, aligned straight when made. It is not
wobbly like a Cessna 140's steel gear. It is easier
to get in and out since it is not in the way as the
tube gear was. The Grove setup is a vast improvement.
It tamed the little beast and I can go to tundra
tires later if I want. I can't say whether it
affected the speed but don't think so as it seems like
it can still go pretty fast even without wheel pants.
I haven't determined the weight difference yet,
although we weighed the plane after installation.
I have no reason to keep the steel gear any more.
John Allen
209-223-5705
-->9/16/06 Kitfox-List message posted by: "GRPP"
<kevinnickel@goinet.ca> said
i am thinking of upgrading to grove gear and would
like any opinions on doing so.
__________________________________________________
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "parahawk" <alfi98596@yahoo.com>
Thanks everybody, I ordered the AN pins from Aircraft Spruce
Al
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62219#62219
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