Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:48 AM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (Barry West)
2. 03:43 AM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Ceashman@aol.com)
3. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (Ceashman@aol.com)
4. 03:49 AM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Bob Unternaehrer)
5. 03:57 AM - Re: Re: CNBC Video segment and video (Bob Unternaehrer)
6. 04:15 AM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Michel Verheughe)
7. 04:25 AM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Dave)
8. 04:37 AM - Re: Grove gear (Dave)
9. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (john perry)
10. 06:11 AM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Noel Loveys)
11. 06:25 AM - Re: [Off-topic] Kiwiana (Noel Loveys)
12. 06:28 AM - Re: Jab in KitFox (bob born)
13. 06:59 AM - Re: Grove gear (kitfoxmike)
14. 07:02 AM - Re: Grove gear (kitfoxmike)
15. 07:22 AM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (flier)
16. 07:50 AM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (Guy Buchanan)
17. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Grove gear (Dave)
18. 08:46 AM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (Jim Crowder)
19. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: Grove gear (Dave G.)
20. 10:52 AM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (Noel Loveys)
21. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Guy Buchanan)
22. 10:58 AM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Guy Buchanan)
23. 11:10 AM - 912 cooling system capacity (johnciolino@comcast.net)
24. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Dave)
25. 12:30 PM - Re: [Off-topic] ham (Michel Verheughe)
26. 12:45 PM - Re: Factory help - John and Debra (Jose M. Toro)
27. 12:46 PM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (Michel Verheughe)
28. 01:09 PM - Re: 912 cooling system capacity (Randy Daughenbaugh)
29. 01:37 PM - Re: Factory help - John and Debra (Lynn Matteson)
30. 02:06 PM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (John Anderson)
31. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: Grove gear (John Anderson)
32. 02:33 PM - Re: Factory help - tailwheel spring (Jose M. Toro)
33. 02:39 PM - Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (Francisco J Ocampo)
34. 02:46 PM - ATV wheel spindle (dcsfoto)
35. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Jab in KitFox (Lynn Matteson)
36. 03:15 PM - Re: CNBC Video segment and video (Richard Rabbers)
37. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: CNBC Video segment and video (Dave and Diane)
38. 03:22 PM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (willett)
39. 03:27 PM - Re: Factory help - tailwheel spring (Lynn Matteson)
40. 03:30 PM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Dave and Diane)
41. 03:32 PM - Re: ATV wheel spindle (Lynn Matteson)
42. 04:23 PM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (kurt schrader)
43. 04:32 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (kurt schrader)
44. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (kurt schrader)
45. 04:41 PM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (kurt schrader)
46. 04:46 PM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (kurt schrader)
47. 04:54 PM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (Rex Shaw)
48. 05:14 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (Rex Shaw)
49. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Ceashman@aol.com)
50. 05:18 PM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (John Anderson)
51. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Grove gear (Dan Billingsley)
52. 05:31 PM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (Dan Billingsley)
53. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (Ceashman@aol.com)
54. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Dave)
55. 05:45 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (Darrel Morisse)
56. 05:47 PM - Night flight (Ben-PA)
57. 05:53 PM - CNBC Video (Lowell Fitt)
58. 05:59 PM - Re: Jabiru. WAS: broken tailwheel spring (Jerry)
59. 06:03 PM - Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (Jerry)
60. 06:04 PM - Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (kurt schrader)
61. 06:09 PM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (kurt schrader)
62. 06:11 PM - Re: need landing gear (Jerry)
63. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (kurt schrader)
64. 06:23 PM - Re: Factory help - John and Debra (Jerry)
65. 06:38 PM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (kurt schrader)
66. 06:41 PM - Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (kurt schrader)
67. 06:47 PM - Re: Grove gear (Trevor Leathem)
68. 06:56 PM - Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (kurt schrader)
69. 07:18 PM - Re: Night flight (john perry)
70. 07:43 PM - Re: Night flight (Ben-PA)
71. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: Night flight (john perry)
72. 08:47 PM - anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? (Jerry Poe)
73. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (ron schick)
74. 09:04 PM - Re: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? (ron schick)
75. 09:41 PM - Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th (WBL)
76. 10:38 PM - Re: SELLING KITFOX SKYSTAR VIXEN (wingsdown)
77. 11:15 PM - KITFOX PARTS AND OTHER AIRCRAFT PARTS FOR SALE UPDATE: (wingsdown)
78. 11:51 PM - Re: Jabiru. (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
Bob, it was an option on IV when I bought my kit in about 1996 and I
didn't buy the option. I recall it was simply some ribs that formed
bottom and top of the horizontal and both side of the verticle. I'm
sure it was for drag reduction and also pretty sure it helped some.
There were also false ribs for the bottom of the wing, not to change the
shape but to keep the fabric from sinking in so much between the real
ribs and also to reduce drag and help maintain the air foil type. Same
thing for the fabric covered landing gear, there were ribs for that. My
IV was very draggy, 95 mph max, even with the 912 S engine. I didn't
even have fairings on the struts.
After flying it for 5 years, I fabricated fairings for the struts and
picked up 5 mph.
If I had to do it all over again, I would get all that drag reduction
stuff and the metal landing gear.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Unternaehrer
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Airfoils on empanage
Does anyone have some pics or drawings with dimensions of the
"airfoil" type empennage that I think was used on the Late model 4 and
up? I think it was an option and used plywood ribs that were either
bowed in like a symmetrical airfoil or maybe just bowed on top like the
wing airfoil.
Also what was the Idea of using it as opposed to a "flat" surface on
the empennage?
Was it used only on the horizontal and vertical stabs or did it
include the rudder and elevator?
Is it still used today on the mod VII etc?
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom@mcmsys.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
Nick asks;
So, my questions are: Is it practical to fold the wings each time you
put the KitFox IV away? Or is the folding mechanism more like one of
those "you only want to do it once a season" kind of things? How long
does it REALLY take for a regular guy to fold the wings? Is it
practical to store the 'Fox in an enclosed trailer? I know what the
sales brochures say, but what is the REAL story?
Any advice would be appreciated!
Best Regards,
Nick Scholtes
Hi Nick.
I used to fold and trailer every flight. I had a small barn in which to store
the IV while on the trailer, so I didn't have to de-trailer when I got home.
The biggest problems I had.
*Could not drive faster than 60 MPH
* If the fuel tanks were full (or fullish) could not fold the wings with the
tail wheel on the ground. As the wings fold back they also fold down (that's
how tail wheels are, tails are lower than the fronts). You either had to remove
the some of the fuel or winch on to the trailer making the back end as high
as the front before folding. Other wise fuel would leak out of the tank caps.
* It took me about 20 to 30 minutes to get the airplane back on the trailer.
Just folding the wings would be nothing (with low quantity of fuel in tanks)
So it is very practical, make sure you ask the seller if he installed longer
fuel lines and are the wings ready for folding.
* Of the issues with folding and trailering, the worst problem was reversing
off the street and down the drive to the barn.
If you have a landing strip with a barn and do not have to trailer. You will
be in heaven. Until you extend the existing barn and you do not have to fold
the wings, then you will be in second heaven!!
There are some little accessories that will make the job easier. You could
probably get these from John at the New Kitfox Co. A couple of tube supports and
a soft pad that goes over the vertical fin and rudder.
All the very best.
Eric.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
Brett said;
original is a pin with a safety clip.
I will use a bolt with a wing nut and safety clip.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
Good thinking Brett!
Man, I wish I thought of that. It should look a lot more secure than the
existing set up.
Cheers. Eric.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Folding the wings isn't real easy with one guy, but suppose it can be done.
On my Mod IV the fuel level needs to be pretty low to keep the wings light
and getting the flaperons disconnected and positioned right as well as the
front pin in and out isn't easy, but doable. IF the Door is in the Gable
end of the shed, I'd sure look into replacing the 14' wide door with a 40'
wide "ultimate door" that you buy a kit for and build it your self. You can
build it for around $1500 if you stay bare bones or 2 to 3 grand if you get
fancy with skylights, insulation, electric operation etc , etc. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:03 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Is it practical to fold wings each flight?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
>
> Hi KitFox Owners!
>
> My name is Nick Scholtes and I'm a typical renter/CFI who flies and
> teaches in all of the Cessna and Piper products that you find at the
> local FBO. However, I live on a farm in Illinois where I have a pasture
> that would make a perfect Kitfox airstrip (about 800'), and I have an
> old cattle shed that would make a perfect hangar. So, I want to own my
> own airplane, for the first time in my life.
>
> Problem is, the "hangar" has an overhead door that is big enough to get
> tractors in, but not big enough to get an airplane in with the wings
> spread. The door is 14' wide, 11' tall.
>
> I'm really attracted to the Kitfox IV, and have seen many wonderful Kitfox
> IV's for sale in excellent condition. I've never actually flown one,
> however, and have never actually seen the wings folded or the folding
> procedure.
>
> So, my questions are: Is it practical to fold the wings each time you
> put the KitFox IV away? Or is the folding mechanism more like one of
> those "you only want to do it once a season" kind of things? How long
> does it REALLY take for a regular guy to fold the wings? Is it
> practical to store the 'Fox in an enclosed trailer? I know what the
> sales brochures say, but what is the REAL story?
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nick Scholtes
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CNBC Video segment and video |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
I sent a email to lcfitt@sbcglobal,net, but was rejected. Can you take
PayPal for a DVD Bob U. shilocom@mcmsys.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:11 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CNBC Video segment and video
>
>
> List
>
> I have finally finished the DVD with the CNBC segment (s) and the two
video
> shoots from which the CNBC producer picked a few seconds of video for her
> editing.
>
> I will duplicate them for anyone that would like one. I think I will
need
> about $6 for the DVD which will include mail. I have attached 3 images
> clipped from the video for a little bit of a heads-up on what is there.
>
> If you would like one sent out, please contact me at:
> lcfitt@sbcglobal,net
>
> Lowell
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
> From: Ceashman@aol.com
> If you have a landing strip with a barn and do not have to trailer. You will
> be in heaven. Until you extend the existing barn and you do not have to fold
> the wings, then you will be in second heaven!!
... and in the 7th heaven, when you fly your Kitfox, up there! :-)
I have folded the wings of my model 3 only twice, because of convenience when working
on the plane. But I was considering folding them at every flight, due to
hangar problem that is now solved.
My idea was to make a dolly as an inverted pyramid, supporting the end of the fuselage,
and going to a free-castoring wheel, under. The idea was to keep the
plane horizontal when folding the wings, keep the fuel in the tanks, and ease
the manoeuvre when moving in and out of a narrow door.
Another point is that, the wing, even with empty tanks, is heavy in a taildragger
attitude. It needs two people to fold it; one to remove the pin, and one to
hold the wing from swinging back uncontrolled. You need also to watch the flaperons
as the come inside of the removed turtledeck. A dolly would make this a
one-man's job, I think.
As I said, I haven't made the dolly so I don't know how well it would work. Maybe
someone else on the list has tried it.
Cheers,
Michel
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
I have to disagree with you .
I have a Kitfox IV and a 40 foot wide hangar but I do take planes inside
smaller doors in shop.
My IV will take me about 5 minutes in total
remove turtle deck (about 8 dzus fasteners) and fold down the flapperon
bearings - under 1 minute
disconnent the 2 flapperon rods - 1 minute
Pull front spar pin flold wing and attach to vert stab point with rod 1
minute
same as above for other side 1 minute
push straight in the 9'W x 7' H door. 1 minute.
could not be easier really .
I do a Kitfox 1 and a AVID heavy same way but they do not require the
flapperon control rods to be removed.
I will agree that having a wide hanger is easier. Perhaps a lean too off
existing building with a 40 foot open web joist would work well and very
simple.
If you leave 4 feet overhang or more you don't even need a door.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is it practical to fold wings each flight?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
> <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
>
> Folding the wings isn't real easy with one guy, but suppose it can be
> done.
> On my Mod IV the fuel level needs to be pretty low to keep the wings light
> and getting the flaperons disconnected and positioned right as well as the
> front pin in and out isn't easy, but doable. IF the Door is in the Gable
> end of the shed, I'd sure look into replacing the 14' wide door with a 40'
> wide "ultimate door" that you buy a kit for and build it your self. You
> can
> build it for around $1500 if you stay bare bones or 2 to 3 grand if you
> get
> fancy with skylights, insulation, electric operation etc , etc. Bob U.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:03 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Is it practical to fold wings each flight?
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
>>
>> Hi KitFox Owners!
>>
>> My name is Nick Scholtes and I'm a typical renter/CFI who flies and
>> teaches in all of the Cessna and Piper products that you find at the
>> local FBO. However, I live on a farm in Illinois where I have a pasture
>> that would make a perfect Kitfox airstrip (about 800'), and I have an
>> old cattle shed that would make a perfect hangar. So, I want to own my
>> own airplane, for the first time in my life.
>>
>> Problem is, the "hangar" has an overhead door that is big enough to get
>> tractors in, but not big enough to get an airplane in with the wings
>> spread. The door is 14' wide, 11' tall.
>>
>> I'm really attracted to the Kitfox IV, and have seen many wonderful
>> Kitfox
>> IV's for sale in excellent condition. I've never actually flown one,
>> however, and have never actually seen the wings folded or the folding
>> procedure.
>>
>> So, my questions are: Is it practical to fold the wings each time you
>> put the KitFox IV away? Or is the folding mechanism more like one of
>> those "you only want to do it once a season" kind of things? How long
>> does it REALLY take for a regular guy to fold the wings? Is it
>> practical to store the 'Fox in an enclosed trailer? I know what the
>> sales brochures say, but what is the REAL story?
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Nick Scholtes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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|
I have never flown a grove gear airplane .
I have flown many bungee aircaft including Kitfox and Avid Flyers.
I don't know where all the fear comes from with regards to ground
looping, unstable tube gear etc as the kitfox is a pretty tame aircraft
in flight and take off and landing.
I think the pilot can be blamed for most of this fear.
Trigear pilots are esentially lazy footed creatures and do have troubles
adapting to flying a taildraggger at times but it is like walking. You
were given to feet but if you don;t move them you will not walk. In a
taildragger if you don't use them then you cannot steer.
Next time you out flying your fox go practice X wind landings 10 to 15
knot @ 90 degrees if you can find a suitable spot and preferably a
grass strip. If you cannot handle that then you should look up that
Andrew CFI that posted here and get some help.
Sorry to sound harsh guys but your Kitfox will fly in same conditions as
a c 152 or 172 and I don't see them grounded often.
as far as weight of grove gear ........ It just extra weight to carry
around.
I do not know which gear is more rugged but the tube style gear load is
carried over over 2 attact points about a foot or more apart and the
grove gear is attached in a smaller spot so I would only guess that the
load exerted is greater on the attach points of the bottom of fuselage.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Rex Shaw
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Grove gear
i am thinking of
upgrading to grove gear and would like any opinions on doing so.
Ron,
I have Grove gear and love it. On the other hand I have no
experience with tube gear. However in my opinion Grove gear seems a bit
more robust and has a wider track. Logically this means it will not
groundloop quite as easilly.
Rex.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
I hope you have thought this through . YOu say it looks more secure than
the existing set up .
Did you do any enginerring onthis or strees test or are you just going
to trust your { looks better judgement}.
I am not trying to be crass about this but it is your life when the
wings decide to change there line of flight when the pin removes itself
from the root of the attach point .
Just my thoughts and only mine no one made me say any of this .
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582/ subbie soon
TD / straight floats
----- Original Message -----
From: Ceashman@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200
Brett said;
original is a pin with a safety clip.
I will use a bolt with a wing nut and safety clip.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
Good thinking Brett!
Man, I wish I thought of that. It should look a lot more secure than
the existing set up.
Cheers. Eric.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I fly floats out of a pond that's about a mile or two away from my garage.
The road to the pond is about 1/2 paved secondary road and the other 1/2,
the way the cows come home through the woods. To navigate the second 1/2 I
always de-fuel my wing tanks.
Folding the wings usually takes about three minutes single handed then add
around 1 minute to attach the turtledeck. I have two turtle decks. The one
I usually use is a one piece unit that I have a 1/4 wave com antenna
attached to. I also have the folding turtle deck but to be honest I never
use it.
Defueling my wings is what takes a bit of time. I always defuel my wing
tanks before folding the wings. The siphoning of the wing tanks will take
about 5 minutes using the 3/8 tubing with a primer bulb ( I hate the taste
of gas!)
Folding the wings takes almost exactly the same amount of time as the
unfolding. I have heard people on the avid list complain that they have to
pull pins on their flapperon links to prevent the push rods from bending. I
have no such problem. My pins are snug enough that I can insert them with
my thumb. To remove them I usually use a small screwdriver to push the pin
out. I am using the clevis pin/locking zip pin set up and so far (only
around 25 hr.) I haven't seen either of the pins move or even swivel in
flight.
I usually also do a post flight inspection (while I still remember any
oddities in flight) and make notes on anything I see that is not 100%.
Included in that inspection is a check on the main strut attach point. I
keep that part well lubricated because of the number of times I am folding
the wings. To be totally honest I can fold or un-fold my wings faster alone
than with help ;-)
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Nick Scholtes
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 2:34 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Is it practical to fold wings each flight?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
>
> Hi KitFox Owners!
>
> My name is Nick Scholtes and I'm a typical renter/CFI who flies and
> teaches in all of the Cessna and Piper products that you find at the
> local FBO. However, I live on a farm in Illinois where I
> have a pasture
> that would make a perfect Kitfox airstrip (about 800'), and I have an
> old cattle shed that would make a perfect hangar. So, I want
> to own my
> own airplane, for the first time in my life.
>
> Problem is, the "hangar" has an overhead door that is big
> enough to get
> tractors in, but not big enough to get an airplane in with the wings
> spread. The door is 14' wide, 11' tall.
>
> I'm really attracted to the Kitfox IV, and have seen many
> wonderful Kitfox
> IV's for sale in excellent condition. I've never actually flown one,
> however, and have never actually seen the wings folded or the folding
> procedure.
>
> So, my questions are: Is it practical to fold the wings each time you
> put the KitFox IV away? Or is the folding mechanism more like one of
> those "you only want to do it once a season" kind of things? How long
> does it REALLY take for a regular guy to fold the wings? Is it
> practical to store the 'Fox in an enclosed trailer? I know what the
> sales brochures say, but what is the REAL story?
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Nick Scholtes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | [Off-topic] Kiwiana |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Glad to see another "Ham" has the flying "Fox" bug!
Noel
VO1 PL
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Verheughe
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 3:18 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] Kiwiana
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:42 AM, John Anderson wrote:
> > Oooh Michel, might just be a wee bit far for even a
> Fox..Kiwiana. Come
> > in the big metal one then we can fly around in mine..
>
> I have no problem spending some holidays in Kiwiana, John. My son and
> his wife has already been in your country twice, for
> holidays. And they
> have been in nearly all the countries on all the continents.
> But it's a
> long way. The antipode, actually. I remember, some years ago, I met a
> NZ ham on the CW (Morse) wavebands. Then we wondered if our signals
> were going over the north pole or the south pole. Further away from
> Norway ... it's difficult to get.
> BTW, a Norwegian grocery store chain is called Kiwi. www.kiwi.no
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: Jab in KitFox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob born" <bornbob@hotmail.com>
lynn how do you like your jab in your kit fox, was it hard to install, i
just bought a kitfos and want to do the same, thanks bob
>From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: broken tailwheel spring
>Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:03:02 -0400
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break yesterday during taxi,
>just after landing on a grass runway...slightly bumpy surface. Fortunately
>I had a spare leaf that my instructor and I changed out rather quickly. Now
>I'll be looking for a replacement spring. The plane now has just over 158
>hours on it. How are other 'fox owners finding the tailwheel springs
>holding up? Mine uses the main spring, and one other "booster" spring leaf.
>My main broke just about a half-inch forward of the tapered end of the
>booster spring leaf.
>
>Lynn
>Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get real-time traffic reports with Windows Live Local Search
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=42.336065~-109.392273&style=r&lvl=4&scene=3712634&trfc=1
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
why is it that when something is harder, it's the way to go??? I have flown both
the bungy gear and the grove gear and I will say the grove is much safer and
easier to land. My self, I prefer the safer. I have the grove and that's that.
When you have a landing that is hard(you know those last couple feet and
you just drop for no reason), the grove is going to hold up, when you come in
and get a dust devil that throws you around, the grove will help(wider stance).
Oh and lets not forget, you don't have to put those bungies on every year
either, or after a hard one.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62251#62251
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
Oh one last thing, 15lbs. My answer to that is drink more water and eat less Twinkies.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62255#62255
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
In 10 years I've NEVER had anyone help fold/unfold my
IV wings. Helpers tend to get in the way and it's
easy to damage something. I always fold/unfold by
myself. Many many cycles over the last decade and
have never had a problem or any damage. Takes 20
mins off the trailer and maybe 25 mins to go back
on...
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Is it practical to fold
wings each flight?
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave"
<dave@cfisher.com>
>
>I have to disagree with you .
>I have a Kitfox IV and a 40 foot wide hangar but I
do take planes inside
>smaller doors in shop.
>My IV will take me about 5 minutes in total
>remove turtle deck (about 8 dzus fasteners) and
fold down the flapperon
>bearings - under 1 minute
>disconnent the 2 flapperon rods - 1 minute
>Pull front spar pin flold wing and attach to vert
stab point with rod 1
>minute
>same as above for other side 1 minute
>
>push straight in the 9'W x 7' H door. 1 minute.
>
>could not be easier really .
>
>I do a Kitfox 1 and a AVID heavy same way but they
do not require the
>flapperon control rods to be removed.
>
>I will agree that having a wide hanger is easier.
Perhaps a lean too off
>existing building with a 40 foot open web joist
would work well and very
>simple.
>If you leave 4 feet overhang or more you don't even
need a door.
>
>Dave
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 05:39 PM 9/17/2006, you wrote:
>Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??
I'm not a big fan of the clevis, since if the tube decides to splay it will
strip the cotter. (Even with a washer.) I use a drilled bolt / castle nut
with the heavy duty safety clip. I guess it probably takes an additional 30
seconds per side but positively clamps the spar tube against the fuselage
frame.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Mike ,
Are you saying it is less safe to fly a Kitfox without a Grove gear ?
I think a poll should be done on that topic alone. Have you had a bad
experience with a tube gear ?
Sorry I cannot see how a proficient pillot could make a statement like that.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Grove gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
>
> why is it that when something is harder, it's the way to go??? I have
> flown both the bungy gear and the grove gear and I will say the grove is
> much safer and easier to land. My self, I prefer the safer. I have the
> grove and that's that. When you have a landing that is hard(you know
> those last couple feet and you just drop for no reason), the grove is
> going to hold up, when you come in and get a dust devil that throws you
> around, the grove will help(wider stance). Oh and lets not forget, you
> don't have to put those bungies on every year either, or after a hard one.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
> http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
> rv7 wingkit
> reserved 287RV
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62251#62251
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
Bob,
I have all of the foils on my Series 5 and will be working on my
plane today. I will take pictures and send them to you. As I
remember when I purchased my kit, they were standard on the
Speedsters and an option for me. I think they might have even been
called Speedster air foils.
Jim Crowder
At 10:03 PM 9/17/2006, you wrote:
>Does anyone have some pics or drawings with dimensions of the
>"airfoil" type empennage that I think was used on the Late model 4
>and up? I think it was an option and used plywood ribs that were
>either bowed in like a symmetrical airfoil or maybe just bowed on
>top like the wing airfoil.
>
>Also what was the Idea of using it as opposed to a "flat" surface on
>the empennage?
>
>Was it used only on the horizontal and vertical stabs or did it
>include the rudder and elevator?
>
>Is it still used today on the mod VII etc?
>
>Blue Skies
>Bob Unternaehrer
><mailto:shilocom@mcmsys.com>shilocom@mcmsys.com
>
>
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
> why is it that when something is harder, it's the way to go??? I have
> flown >both the bungy gear and the grove gear and I will say the grove is
> much >safer and easier to land. My self, I prefer the safer. I have the
> grove and >that's that.
But Mike- following that logic it would be easier to have only tricycle
gear. It seems a lot of people have the original gear and find it perfectly
adequate. The tone of your post seems to imply they are just plain wrong.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
The bolt, castellated nut and safety pin is just as safe as the clevis pin
so I have no beef with you on using that. I don't think it's any safer
though. When you are swinging your wings for flight you should check the
fittings for any splaying or wear. Even if you don't have to swing your
wings it's a good habit to check the attach points and let's not forget the
lower strut attach point.
Forces acting on the pin are shear not tensional there fore the I see
nothing to be gained by replacing the clevis pin with a bolt or vice versa
for that matter.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Guy Buchanan
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:48 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 05:39 PM 9/17/2006, you wrote:
> >Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??
>
> I'm not a big fan of the clevis, since if the tube decides to
> splay it will
> strip the cotter. (Even with a washer.) I use a drilled bolt
> / castle nut
> with the heavy duty safety clip. I guess it probably takes an
> additional 30
> seconds per side but positively clamps the spar tube against
> the fuselage
> frame.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 04:15 AM 9/18/2006, you wrote:
>It needs two people to fold it; one to remove the pin, and one to hold the
>wing from swinging back uncontrolled. You need also to watch the flaperons
>as the come inside of the removed turtledeck. A dolly would make this a
>one-man's job, I think.
Just to let you know I have no problem folding solo. You do have to be
CAREFUL, though. You can easily cause major damage. It's not like opening
and closing a door. ;-)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:03 PM 9/17/2006, you wrote:
>Is it
>practical to store the 'Fox in an enclosed trailer? I know what the
>sales brochures say, but what is the REAL story?
I have an 8 x 22' "toy box" that my plane fits into. (See Frapper (sp?)
picture.) It takes me about 3 - 5 minutes to fold both wings, working
methodically. Same for extension. Of course I set it up to make folding as
easy as possible. If you're going out to the used market you will have to
be wary, since many were built with folding incidental.
Putting it in the box takes another 10 minutes, since it barely fits, and I
have to be careful. Taking it out - less than 5.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | 912 cooling system capacity |
Does anyone know the capacity of the cooling system for the 912. I am changing
to the Evans waterless coolant and have a gal; but I suddenly realized that may
not be enough.
John Ciolino
IV-12000
<html><body>
<DIV>Does anyone know the capacity of the cooling system for the 912. I am
changing to the Evans waterless coolant and have a gal; but I suddenly
realized that may not be enough.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Ciolino</DIV>
<DIV>IV-12000</DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Guy,
It quite simple -- just go slow and hold the flapperon while folding so that
it does not contact anything.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 04:15 AM 9/18/2006, you wrote:
>>It needs two people to fold it; one to remove the pin, and one to hold the
>>wing from swinging back uncontrolled. You need also to watch the flaperons
>>as the come inside of the removed turtledeck. A dolly would make this a
>>one-man's job, I think.
>
> Just to let you know I have no problem folding solo. You do have to be
> CAREFUL, though. You can easily cause major damage. It's not like opening
> and closing a door. ;-)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: [Off-topic] ham |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Sep 18, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Glad to see another "Ham" has the flying "Fox" bug!
Oh but I think we are several hams on this list, aren't we? I must
admit that I have been CW only. I just love my old keyer and, like
music, send slowly: tks fer nice qso dr om es cu agn vy sn = best 73 de
la0ha sk e e
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Factory help - John and Debra |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
John:
Sometimes its great to be wrong! I'm very pleased of
the massive positive feedback that you, Debra and your
company received in response to my e-mail, and to
learn that, after all, "we are not alone". It is very
important for us, earlier Kitfox owners, to know that
there is support available "when things get tough".
I will contact you off the list to make the
arrangements to send my old, rusty wing lift strut.
Best regards,
Jos
--- jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
> <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Jose,
> Unfortunately the fixtures for the Model 1
> and 2 lift struts are no
> longer available... We can duplicate them from yours
> and that has been and
> can be done again.
>
> I did get your emails from the 1st of September...
> but missed them.. I'm
> sorry.
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> 208.337.5111
> www.kitfoxaircraft.com www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:11 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Duane:
>
> It is not clear what is driving you to write this
> e-mail, but seems to me like your experience and
> mine
> with the new factory have been different. A couple
> of
> weeks ago I did many attempts to get support from
> the
> factory on how to fix or replace the heavily
> corroded
> wing lift struts of my Kitfox II. I did not
> received
> any response from the new factory. I was expecting
> at
> least some technical support/advisory on how to fix
> this problem.
>
> Since this Kitfox was built by Dan Denney and not by
> Kitfox LLC, it is acceptable if they can't help me.
> Probably John McBean is avoiding any liability
> related
> to providing advisory to somebody fixing a plane
> that
> was not sold by him. That, again, is acceptable.
> His
> business is buiding awesome, brand new Kitfox kits,
> and it is great somebody is taking care of this.
>
> Based on my experience, if you have an early Kitfox,
> Model 1 thru 3, the factory that made your plane no
> longer exist and you are on your own. Since these
> are
> experimental aircrafts, this is also acceptable, but
> it is important that you are aware of it. Must also
> mentioned that the factory that made the Kitfox IV,
> Skystar, neither exist, so this information may
> apply
> to Model IV as well.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Jose Toro
>
>
>
>
>
> --- "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu> wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane"
> > <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
> >
> > To My Fellow Kitfoxers:
> >
> > It is so nice to have a factory again to
> help us
> > with our parts
> > and information and kit needs; especially the
> > particular group of folks
> > that we got - Debra and John McBean, and their
> > staff.
> > I think that we all breathe a little easier
> to know
> > that Kitfox
> > is now a viable company with friendly, helpful
> folks
> > there to satisfy
> > our many questions with good, solid answers and
> the
> > right products.
> > I, therefore think we owe some allegiance to
> those
> > who were
> > willing to take on the not small task of carrying
> > forward the Kitfox
> > banner, and so, as we are the primary
> beneficiaries
> > of having a factory
> > to consult, the least we can do in return is to
> > patronize that same
> > factory when we make purchases for the
> > up-grade/repair, or modification
> > of our little aircraft.
> > It is basically not reasonable for us to
> expect the
> > factory to
> > support us with information, and then for us to
> > purchase our parts
> > elsewhere. Moreover, when we do this, we are
> > jeopardizing the future of
> > our investment in our own KItfoxes.
> > If we expect to have a factory to help us
> when we
> > are in need,
> > then we owe them the consideration of doing
> business
> > with them whenever
> > possible, because this is the only way that they
> can
> > be there for us in
> > the future.
> >
> > Sincerely, Duane Rueb
> >
> >
> >
> > browse
> > Subscriptions page,
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> >
> > Web Forums!
> >
> >
> > Admin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Sep 18, 2006, at 7:24 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> I had never considered this, but the suggestion was made by several of
> the gurus on that list that a properly designed airfoil would reduce
> the tendency of the elevator to stall.
This is an interesting subject, Lowell, and as you probably know, I
have experimented for years with airfoils in the X-Plane flight
simulator. It is the reason a French friend helped Kurt to make a good
profile for his wing struts.
From this "digital experience" I know that any profile has a
coefficient of lift, of drag and moment. Depending of the profile, the
stall angle may vary from 16 to 20 degrees. The simulator comes with a
good library of standard airfoils, most of them NACA. From that, it is
obvious that a good lifting airfoil will stall later than say, a flat
plate. But it is not very much, we are talking of a couple of degrees
of AoA.
However, the rudder and elevator is an airfoil that changes shape.
Stick and pedals will change the profile, making it with more or less
camber. How does that affect the angle of stall? Here, digital
modelling is more uncertain. A rudder with an angle is not like say, my
under-cambered wing.
Will a volumetric control surface work better than a flat plate?
Certainly because it will give more lift, which is then translated into
rotation moment in one or the other axis. Will the stalling of it be
delayed? I think so, but IMHO, only by a very small margin.
My sailboat is very special. The rudder is hanging from a small "keel"
called a skeg. The rudder and the skeg are shaped as a NACA profile,
the rudder being faired in the skeg, a bit like your foam and
glassfiber gap sealing. It creates a super powerful rudder and a ship
that can be steered with the little finger, even in a gale wind. So, an
good airfoil is better than a flat plate, that's for sure.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 28
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| Subject: | 912 cooling system capacity |
John,
The gal is enough, but you do need to get all the water out. Evans sells a
flush (which I think is just the propylene glycol in the coolant but without
the additives.) to flush the system with to get the water out. It is
important to get the water out, or you won't get the advantages of the new
system.
Randy - Flying on Evans for 9 months now.
.
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
johnciolino@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:09 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 cooling system capacity
Does anyone know the capacity of the cooling system for the 912. I am
changing to the Evans waterless coolant and have a gal; but I suddenly
realized that may not be enough.
John Ciolino
IV-12000
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Factory help - John and Debra |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I just got off the phone with John, after ordering an in-stock
replacement spring of better-than-original-design for my recently
broken (original) tailwheel spring, Jose, and I'm sure your experiences
will parallel mine in dealing with the new Kitfox owners.
Lynn
On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 03:44 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> John:
>
> Sometimes its great to be wrong! I'm very pleased of
> the massive positive feedback that you, Debra and your
> company received in response to my e-mail, and to
> learn that, after all, "we are not alone". It is very
> important for us, earlier Kitfox owners, to know that
> there is support available "when things get tough".
>
> I will contact you off the list to make the
> arrangements to send my old, rusty wing lift strut.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jos
>
>
> --- jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
>> <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>>
>> Jose,
>> Unfortunately the fixtures for the Model 1
>> and 2 lift struts are no
>> longer available... We can duplicate them from yours
>> and that has been and
>> can be done again.
>>
>> I did get your emails from the 1st of September...
>> but missed them.. I'm
>> sorry.
>>
>> Fly Safe !!
>> John & Debra McBean
>> 208.337.5111
>> www.kitfoxaircraft.com www.sportplanellc.com
>> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
>> Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
>> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:11 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
>> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Duane:
>>
>> It is not clear what is driving you to write this
>> e-mail, but seems to me like your experience and
>> mine
>> with the new factory have been different. A couple
>> of
>> weeks ago I did many attempts to get support from
>> the
>> factory on how to fix or replace the heavily
>> corroded
>> wing lift struts of my Kitfox II. I did not
>> received
>> any response from the new factory. I was expecting
>> at
>> least some technical support/advisory on how to fix
>> this problem.
>>
>> Since this Kitfox was built by Dan Denney and not by
>> Kitfox LLC, it is acceptable if they can't help me.
>> Probably John McBean is avoiding any liability
>> related
>> to providing advisory to somebody fixing a plane
>> that
>> was not sold by him. That, again, is acceptable.
>> His
>> business is buiding awesome, brand new Kitfox kits,
>> and it is great somebody is taking care of this.
>>
>> Based on my experience, if you have an early Kitfox,
>> Model 1 thru 3, the factory that made your plane no
>> longer exist and you are on your own. Since these
>> are
>> experimental aircrafts, this is also acceptable, but
>> it is important that you are aware of it. Must also
>> mentioned that the factory that made the Kitfox IV,
>> Skystar, neither exist, so this information may
>> apply
>> to Model IV as well.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Jose Toro
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane"
>>> <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
>>>
>>> To My Fellow Kitfoxers:
>>>
>>> It is so nice to have a factory again to
>> help us
>>> with our parts
>>> and information and kit needs; especially the
>>> particular group of folks
>>> that we got - Debra and John McBean, and their
>>> staff.
>>> I think that we all breathe a little easier
>> to know
>>> that Kitfox
>>> is now a viable company with friendly, helpful
>> folks
>>> there to satisfy
>>> our many questions with good, solid answers and
>> the
>>> right products.
>>> I, therefore think we owe some allegiance to
>> those
>>> who were
>>> willing to take on the not small task of carrying
>>> forward the Kitfox
>>> banner, and so, as we are the primary
>> beneficiaries
>>> of having a factory
>>> to consult, the least we can do in return is to
>>> patronize that same
>>> factory when we make purchases for the
>>> up-grade/repair, or modification
>>> of our little aircraft.
>>> It is basically not reasonable for us to
>> expect the
>>> factory to
>>> support us with information, and then for us to
>>> purchase our parts
>>> elsewhere. Moreover, when we do this, we are
>>> jeopardizing the future of
>>> our investment in our own KItfoxes.
>>> If we expect to have a factory to help us
>> when we
>>> are in need,
>>> then we owe them the consideration of doing
>> business
>>> with them whenever
>>> possible, because this is the only way that they
>> can
>>> be there for us in
>>> the future.
>>>
>>> Sincerely, Duane Rueb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> browse
>>> Subscriptions page,
>>> FAQ,
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>>
>>> Web Forums!
>>>
>>>
>>> Admin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>
>> Web Forums!
>>
>>
>> Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Yes, the effort is surely worth it re drag reduction. I've gone to a bit of
effort on this and still air cruise is 100kts (GPS) Series V EA81
From: "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Airfoils on empanage
Bob, it was an option on IV when I bought my kit in about 1996 and I didn't
buy the option. I recall it was simply some ribs that formed bottom and top
of the horizontal and both side of the verticle. I'm sure it was for drag
reduction and also pretty sure it helped some. There were also false ribs
for the bottom of the wing, not to change the shape but to keep the fabric
from sinking in so much between the real ribs and also to reduce drag and
help maintain the air foil type. Same thing for the fabric covered landing
gear, there were ribs for that. My IV was very draggy, 95 mph max, even
with the 912 S engine. I didn't even have fairings on the struts.
After flying it for 5 years, I fabricated fairings for the struts and picked
up 5 mph.
If I had to do it all over again, I would get all that drag reduction stuff
and the metal landing gear.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Unternaehrer
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Airfoils on empanage
Does anyone have some pics or drawings with dimensions of the "airfoil" type
empennage that I think was used on the Late model 4 and up? I think it was
an option and used plywood ribs that were either bowed in like a symmetrical
airfoil or maybe just bowed on top like the wing airfoil.
Also what was the Idea of using it as opposed to a "flat" surface on the
empennage?
Was it used only on the horizontal and vertical stabs or did it include the
rudder and elevator?
Is it still used today on the mod VII etc?
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom@mcmsys.com
_________________________________________________________________
Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment
Message 31
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Ask seasoned Spitfire / Mustang pilots. The former type is a pig on the
ground to the latter as he's used to the wider Mustang track. But the
Spitfire pilot knows no diff...until he tries the Mustang..
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Grove gear
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Mike ,
Are you saying it is less safe to fly a Kitfox without a Grove gear ?
I think a poll should be done on that topic alone. Have you had a bad
experience with a tube gear ?
Sorry I cannot see how a proficient pillot could make a statement like that.
Dave
----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Grove gear
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike@yahoo.com>
>
>why is it that when something is harder, it's the way to go??? I have
>flown both the bungy gear and the grove gear and I will say the grove is
>much safer and easier to land. My self, I prefer the safer. I have the
>grove and that's that. When you have a landing that is hard(you know those
>last couple feet and you just drop for no reason), the grove is going to
>hold up, when you come in and get a dust devil that throws you around, the
>grove will help(wider stance). Oh and lets not forget, you don't have to
>put those bungies on every year either, or after a hard one.
>
>--------
>kitfoxmike
>kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
>http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
>rv7 wingkit
>reserved 287RV
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62251#62251
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Factory help - tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Lynn:
No damage to the rudder?
Jos
--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I just got off the phone with John, after ordering
> an in-stock
> replacement spring of better-than-original-design
> for my recently
> broken (original) tailwheel spring, Jose, and I'm
> sure your experiences
> will parallel mine in dealing with the new Kitfox
> owners.
>
> Lynn
>
> On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 03:44 PM, Jose M.
> Toro wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> > <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
> >
> > John:
> >
> > Sometimes its great to be wrong! I'm very pleased
> of
> > the massive positive feedback that you, Debra and
> your
> > company received in response to my e-mail, and to
> > learn that, after all, "we are not alone". It is
> very
> > important for us, earlier Kitfox owners, to know
> that
> > there is support available "when things get
> tough".
> >
> > I will contact you off the list to make the
> > arrangements to send my old, rusty wing lift
> strut.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Jos
> >
> >
> >
> > --- jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
> >> <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
> >>
> >> Jose,
> >> Unfortunately the fixtures for the Model
> 1
> >> and 2 lift struts are no
> >> longer available... We can duplicate them from
> yours
> >> and that has been and
> >> can be done again.
> >>
> >> I did get your emails from the 1st of
> September...
> >> but missed them.. I'm
> >> sorry.
> >>
> >> Fly Safe !!
> >> John & Debra McBean
> >> 208.337.5111
> >> www.kitfoxaircraft.com www.sportplanellc.com
> >> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
> >> Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
> >> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:11 PM
> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help
> >>
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> >> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> Duane:
> >>
> >> It is not clear what is driving you to write this
> >> e-mail, but seems to me like your experience and
> >> mine
> >> with the new factory have been different. A
> couple
> >> of
> >> weeks ago I did many attempts to get support from
> >> the
> >> factory on how to fix or replace the heavily
> >> corroded
> >> wing lift struts of my Kitfox II. I did not
> >> received
> >> any response from the new factory. I was
> expecting
> >> at
> >> least some technical support/advisory on how to
> fix
> >> this problem.
> >>
> >> Since this Kitfox was built by Dan Denney and not
> by
> >> Kitfox LLC, it is acceptable if they can't help
> me.
> >> Probably John McBean is avoiding any liability
> >> related
> >> to providing advisory to somebody fixing a plane
> >> that
> >> was not sold by him. That, again, is acceptable.
> >> His
> >> business is buiding awesome, brand new Kitfox
> kits,
> >> and it is great somebody is taking care of this.
> >>
> >> Based on my experience, if you have an early
> Kitfox,
> >> Model 1 thru 3, the factory that made your plane
> no
> >> longer exist and you are on your own. Since
> these
> >> are
> >> experimental aircrafts, this is also acceptable,
> but
> >> it is important that you are aware of it. Must
> also
> >> mentioned that the factory that made the Kitfox
> IV,
> >> Skystar, neither exist, so this information may
> >> apply
> >> to Model IV as well.
> >>
> >> Respectfully,
> >>
> >> Jose Toro
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane"
> >>> <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
> >>>
> >>> To My Fellow Kitfoxers:
> >>>
> >>> It is so nice to have a factory again to
> >> help us
> >>> with our parts
> >>> and information and kit needs; especially the
> >>> particular group of folks
> >>> that we got - Debra and John McBean, and their
> >>> staff.
> >>> I think that we all breathe a little
> easier
> >> to know
> >>> that Kitfox
> >>> is now a viable company with friendly, helpful
> >> folks
> >>> there to satisfy
> >>> our many questions with good, solid answers and
> >> the
> >>> right products.
> >>> I, therefore think we owe some allegiance
> to
> >> those
> >>> who were
> >>> willing to take on the not small task of
> carrying
> >>> forward the Kitfox
> >>> banner, and so, as we are the primary
> >> beneficiaries
> >>> of having a factory
> >>> to consult, the least we can do in return is to
> >>> patronize that same
> >>> factory when we make purchases for the
> >>> up-grade/repair, or modification
> >>> of our little aircraft.
> >>> It is basically not reasonable for us to
> >> expect the
> >>> factory to
> >>> support us with information, and then for us to
> >>> purchase our parts
> >>> elsewhere. Moreover, when we do this, we are
> >>> jeopardizing the future of
> >>> our investment in our own KItfoxes.
> >>> If we expect to have a factory to help us
> >> when we
> >>> are in need,
> >>> then we owe them the consideration of doing
> >> business
> >>> with them whenever
> >>> possible, because this is the only way that they
> >> can
> >>> be there for us in
> >>> the future.
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely, Duane Rueb
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> browse
> >>> Subscriptions page,
> >>> FAQ,
> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> >>>
> >>> Web Forums!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Admin.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> browse
> >> Subscriptions page,
> >> FAQ,
> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> >>
> >> Web Forums!
> >>
> >>
> >> Admin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 33
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| Subject: | Aircraft Model, Engine etc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Francisco J Ocampo <fjo@telecom.com.co>
Lowell
Please include me in the list.
Kitfox model VIXEN
Continental 0-200 with warp Drive
Thanks
Francisco J Ocampo
Ibagu, Colombia.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: September 16, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Model, Engine etc
Attached is the organized data from the engine type survey.
Keep me posted if there are any other that want to be on it.
Lowell
Message 34
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| Subject: | ATV wheel spindle |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" <david@kelm.com>
Kitfox MIII, during the install of tires the ridge that holds the dust cap on was
damaged.Kitfox is unable to help on this as ATV wheels have not been used for
a long time.
Anyone got a clue as to what brand ATV spindle was used.I want to stay with the
8 in tires
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62353#62353
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Jab in KitFox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I love it, Bob! Not hard to install at all. The biggest problem was
trying to fit the airbox to a suitable location on the firewall. You
are supposed to keep the airflow to the (single) carb as straight as
possible, and I was able to do this without TOO much work...the problem
was to find a suitable piece of radiator hose to act as a
smooth-interior air duct for that purpose, which I did. After that task
was worked out, everything else went almost without a hitch. Be aware
that the Jabiru engine comes with a muffler that is designed to be able
to be inverted so that you have two possible choices of where the
exhaust will exit the cowling. I did not have the Kitfox cowling, so I
bought a Skyfox (Australian knock-off of the Kitfox) cowling, which
required a good deal of fiberglas work to make it fit. See 3 back
issues of Kitplanes Magazine (Dec., 2003, Feb., 2004, and I think,
Mar., 2004) for Dave Jalanti's description of how he did his
installation...I used those 3 articles as a starting point and went
from there.
After getting the engine mount w/engine bolted to the airframe, it's
just a matter of seeing what can fit where...for example, fit the
airbox first, as it's the biggest part, then the battery, then the
smaller parts, etc. Plan everything out before committing to a location
for anything.
Lynn
Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 09:28 AM, bob born wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bob born" <bornbob@hotmail.com>
>
> lynn how do you like your jab in your kit fox, was it hard to install,
> i just bought a kitfos and want to do the same, thanks bob
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: CNBC Video segment and video |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
Lowel,
Thanks for your video and editing efforts. I look forward to your DVD.
Please relay your preferred method of reimbursement, address, etc.
Thank you!
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62362#62362
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: CNBC Video segment and video |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Lowell, Michel, and all,
A few members of our group put up aerial photos on the list or on a linked
web site. For those who do - PLEASE KEEP DOING SO. It is a good morale
booster for those of us who aren't quite flying yet. It is great to share the
tech stuff and also wonderful to see photos of people's activities with their
planes. Kinda reminds one what it is like to fly.....
Sincerely,
Dave S
Kitfox 7 - close but not quite yet
On Monday 18 September 2006 12:11 am, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> List
>
> I have finally finished the DVD with the CNBC segment (s) and the two
> video shoots from which the CNBC producer picked a few seconds of video for
> her editing.
>
> I will duplicate them for anyone that would like one. I think I will need
> about $6 for the DVD which will include mail. I have attached 3 images
> clipped from the video for a little bit of a heads-up on what is there.
>
> If you would like one sent out, please contact me at:
> lcfitt@sbcglobal,net
>
> Lowell
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: willett <willett@bwn.net>
I had a model IV that I kept in my barn and folded the wings
everytime. What I did to prevent any gas problems was to build a tow
bar stand, two wheels about 3 feet apart with an upright high enough
to hold the tail wheel in a level flight position. I had two stands
one with a T handle for hand moving and another with a hitch to pull
the Fox out to the strip behind my ATV. Before folding the wings
just lift the tail into the cradle on the stand, in this level
position the wings don't try to swing away while folding alone. Mike
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Factory help - tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Just a little skinning of the fabric right on the tubing that is right
over the spring...not enough to warrant "grounding" the plane
though....a case of bronchitis has seen to that. When I feel better,
I'll add a patch over the skinned area and repaint. I was only taxiing
at about 3-4 mph, and the ground was very soft...in fact we were
practicing soft field T/O's and landings when it happened, and it was
fixed in one hour including 20 minutes to go home and get the spare
spring. The tail dug a 10-foot long furrow from the broken spring
dragging on the ground...it made a pretty good tail skid. : )
Lynn
Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 05:32 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Lynn:
>
> No damage to the rudder?
>
> Jos
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Nick,
I was sort of on the other end - renting all the typical Cessna & Piper stuff
and getting the services of a CFI, then went to a non equity club which had
both - then that crapped out - sort of been airplane-less since because the
rental places also crapped out around here after that.
What sold me on a Kitfox was flying one! (or two) - a model 7 and a model 4.
I figure a guy will find some way to set up storage; but I can tell you the
Kitfox is an absolute joy to fly.
You know the two most dangerous words in aviation (Watch this)? - well when
the Kitfox demo owner said it; (once I got over my usual apprehension over
people who say this), I discovered that the takeoff and landing (which the
guy was what the guy was talking about) could be made ACROSS the runways of
come airports I have been to (OK, he didn't takeoff across the runway, but
could have).
I know full well how much runway a Warrior will eat up on a hot July day with
full fuel and gross Wt.
And, a Kitfox actually has roll control at or near the stall.
In a word - Kitfox - Do it!
Dave S.
St Paul, MN
Kitfox 7 - close but not quite yet
DO NOT Archive
On Monday 18 September 2006 12:03 am, Nick Scholtes wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
>
> Hi KitFox Owners!
>
> My name is Nick Scholtes and I'm a typical renter/CFI who flies and
> teaches in all of the Cessna and Piper products that you find at the
> local FBO.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: ATV wheel spindle |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I doubt it was any ATV spindle that was used...more like a length of
chrome moly tubing of the proper diameter and wall thickness.
Lynn
On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 05:45 PM, dcsfoto wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" <david@kelm.com>
>
> Kitfox MIII, during the install of tires the ridge that holds the dust
> cap on was damaged.Kitfox is unable to help on this as ATV wheels have
> not been used for a long time.
> Anyone got a clue as to what brand ATV spindle was used.I want to stay
> with the 8 in tires
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62353#62353
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Very well written Michel,
I don't have my airfoil book unpacked yet, but I seem
to remember a difference in stall around 4 degrees
between flat plate and a medium thin airfoil.
Thicker airfoils go to higher AOA's before stall.
Eventually you get round. Does a ball ever stall, or
is it always stalled? What is the AOA of a ball
anyway?
Leading edge geometry makes a big difference, but for
our tails, it is the same nose on a flat or profiled
tail.
The much modified, and I think improved, tail section
made by Lowell is on my computer as near ultimate
perfection for the job. His "eye balled engineering"
has made his plane go fast ya' know. What a gap seal!
Be interesting to do a wind tunnel comparison.
Remember the problems that the Cessna Cardinal had on
the first models? The tail would stall in the flare
and you'd land nose first. An inverted slot was added
to improve the downward lift before stalling and that
fixed it. If you look at an old F-4 tail, it has
inverted slots too, plus a multicurved profile.
Flat plates have a problem with a thicker boundry
layer that the elevator can hide in. Movement inside
of this boundry layer does little, making it feel like
the elevator is in the "loose stearing" mode. I
understand SS twisted the elevator to allow one side
to be at the top of the boundry layer while the other
side is at the bottom. This way, any movement got a
response. It reduces flutter too.
A profiled airfoil fills this boundry layer shadow and
keeps it thin and attached. Better elevator response
and less drag.
The big difference is when you displace the
elevator/rudder a large amount and try to keep the
lifting side (usually the bottom) from stalling. A
good curved profile will do better than a sudden
change in a flat plate.
Then there is that gap....
So a profiled tail should give a little better control
with a little less drag. A good gap seal should do
about as much good again, on top of that.
Results may vary....
Kurt S. S-5
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
> On Sep 18, 2006, at 7:24 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> > I had never considered this, but the suggestion
> was made by several of
> > the gurus on that list that a properly designed
> airfoil would reduce
> > the tendency of the elevator to stall.
>
> This is an interesting subject, Lowell, and as you
> probably know, I
> have experimented for years with airfoils in the
> X-Plane flight
> simulator. It is the reason a French friend helped
> Kurt to make a good
> profile for his wing struts.
> From this "digital experience" I know that any
> profile has a
> coefficient of lift, of drag and moment. Depending
> of the profile, the
> stall angle may vary from 16 to 20 degrees. The
> simulator comes with a
> good library of standard airfoils, most of them
> NACA. From that, it is
> obvious that a good lifting airfoil will stall later
> than say, a flat
> plate. But it is not very much, we are talking of a
> couple of degrees
> of AoA.
> However, the rudder and elevator is an airfoil that
> changes shape.
> Stick and pedals will change the profile, making it
> with more or less
> camber. How does that affect the angle of stall?
> Here, digital
> modelling is more uncertain. A rudder with an angle
> is not like say, my
> under-cambered wing.
> Will a volumetric control surface work better than a
> flat plate?
> Certainly because it will give more lift, which is
> then translated into
> rotation moment in one or the other axis. Will the
> stalling of it be
> delayed? I think so, but IMHO, only by a very small
> margin.
> My sailboat is very special. The rudder is hanging
> from a small "keel"
> called a skeg. The rudder and the skeg are shaped as
> a NACA profile,
> the rudder being faired in the skeg, a bit like your
> foam and
> glassfiber gap sealing. It creates a super powerful
> rudder and a ship
> that can be steered with the little finger, even in
> a gale wind. So, an
> good airfoil is better than a flat plate, that's for
> sure.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Just be sure not to torque it down and damage the
attachments. It only needs to be there, not torqued.
Who was it that took off on their first flight and
after the excitement died off enough, noticed a
screwdriver in the hole instead of the pin?
It is a shear load after all.
Kurt S.
--- Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> The bolt, castellated nut and safety pin is just as
> safe as the clevis pin.....
__________________________________________________
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I use an old desk for a work bench/toolbox and mounted
it on rollers. I made sure that it was about equal to
level when my tailwheel is on the desk. Makes folding
the wings much easier. Not made for trailoring
though.
Multitasking?
Kurt S.
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
> > From: Ceashman@aol.com
> > If you have a landing strip with a barn and do not
> have to trailer. You will
> > be in heaven. Until you extend the existing barn
> and you do not have to fold
> > the wings, then you will be in second heaven!!
>
> ... and in the 7th heaven, when you fly your Kitfox,
> up there! :-)
> I have folded the wings of my model 3 only twice,
> because of convenience when working on the plane.
> But I was considering folding them at every flight,
> due to hangar problem that is now solved.
> My idea was to make a dolly as an inverted pyramid,
> supporting the end of the fuselage, and going to a
> free-castoring wheel, under. The idea was to keep
> the plane horizontal when folding the wings, keep
> the fuel in the tanks, and ease the manoeuvre when
> moving in and out of a narrow door.
> Another point is that, the wing, even with empty
> tanks, is heavy in a taildragger attitude. It needs
> two people to fold it; one to remove the pin, and
> one to hold the wing from swinging back
> uncontrolled. You need also to watch the flaperons
> as the come inside of the removed turtledeck. A
> dolly would make this a one-man's job, I think.
> As I said, I haven't made the dolly so I don't know
> how well it would work. Maybe someone else on the
> list has tried it.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier
> new,courier">
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
> </b></font></pre>
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I used the plywood ribs for the H. Stab, but used a
copy machine and only the one largest rib as a
template for the V. Stab. I just resized the largest
rib down with the copier to fit in each smaller space
using the copy machine. Then I cut foam for the rib,
but you can stick to the plywood if you want.
Kurt S.
--- Bob Unternaehrer <shilocom@mcmsys.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have some pics or drawings with
> dimensions of the "airfoil" type empennage that I
> think was used on the Late model 4 and up? I think
> it was an option and used plywood ribs that were
> either bowed in like a symmetrical airfoil or maybe
> just bowed on top like the wing airfoil.
>
> Also what was the Idea of using it as opposed to a
> "flat" surface on the empennage?
>
> Was it used only on the horizontal and vertical
> stabs or did it include the rudder and elevator?
>
> Is it still used today on the mod VII etc?
>
> Blue Skies
> Bob Unternaehrer
> shilocom@mcmsys.com
__________________________________________________
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
So far no problems, but I am also experimenting with
rubber between the leaves and mounts for an even
softer ride. It does allow the tailwheel to bend more
sideways when turned, but it takes up the jolts better
too. More bending, but less shock?
Don't know if this will increase or decrease the life
of the system, but it rides nice. Quieter too.
Kurt S.
--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> So one of the leafs has to bend at a different
> radius than the other,
> hence the slotted leaf. Does this bolt just get
> tightened to a drag fit
> then? This seems like a good idea in theory, but I'm
> thinking that it
> leaves the tailwheel bracket-to-main leaf a little
> less than tight? Any
> problems in that respect?
>
> Lyn
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: broken tailwheel spring |
I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break yesterday during taxi,
just after landing on a grass runway...slightly bumpy surface.
Fortunately I had a spare leaf that my instructor and I changed out
rather quickly. Now I'll be looking for a replacement spring. The plane
now has just over 158 hours on it. How are other 'fox owners finding
the tailwheel springs holding up? Mine uses the main spring, and one
other "booster" spring leaf. My main broke just about a half-inch
forward of the tapered end of the booster spring leaf.
Hi ! Lynn,
sorry to hear your tailspring broke but I'm glad it was
no big problem. I have the Grove spring on mine but I thought I heard
this was no longer available. It's spring aluminium although I don't
know where the spring comes from as it seems rock solid as far as I can
determine. This part worries me somewhat from that point of view. I have
watched some steel leaf springs and to me they look much gentler on the
airframe. However I guess a broken spring can be rather hard on things,
so what is the best answer. I am not sure but I believe the Grove spring
doesn't break. [ Cross my fingers ]
Rex from Australia.
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
I bought the plane with a bolted wing/cotter pin at the leading edge
because the
previous owner never folded the wings. I am planning to fold the
wings more
often and I wonder if I can use a clevis pin or how was it
designed in the first
place ??
Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??
I believe the Clevis pin with a safety pin is the original and this is
what mine has. I also believe it's quite safe despite the fact it seems
there is some chafing at this point and a little grease is therefore a
good thing. On my left wing there is a slight amount of play developed.
Very hard to detect moving the end of the wing but it is there. I bought
some AN bolts and castelated nuts to replace the Clevis pins as I never
fold the wings anyway. However I have never fitted them on second
thought as I'm not sure which is the best way to go. I was thinking
maybe the bolts with a rubber and steel washer each end and making sure
the thread is clear of the holes in the spar was perhaps the way to go
but then I'm still thinking I'm forcing the aluminium spar hard against
the steel tube in the fuselage framework and any movement that might
still occur will grind quicker into the aluminium.
I too would like comments on all this. I did ask the question once
before and it was pointed out that there was not any real force at this
point. In fact it was stated that you could pull that pin in flight and
the wing would stay put. I don't wish to dispute that but I and others
can't get our heads around that.
Any discussion on this ?????
Rex.
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
Another point is that, the wing, even with empty tanks, is heavy in a
taildragger attitude. It needs two people to fold it; one to remove the pin, and
one
to hold the wing from swinging back uncontrolled. You need also to watch the
flaperons as the come inside of the removed turtledeck. A dolly would make this
a one-man's job, I think.
As I said, I haven't made the dolly so I don't know how well it would work.
Maybe someone else on the list has tried it.
Cheers,
Michel
Hi Michel.
You are correct about the attitude of the airplane while folding the wings.
It can be done single handed but not with large quantities of fuel in the tanks
and you do not need any distractions or you will bend something.
I think the wheeled dolly (big wheels because of the farm like setting) is a
brilliant idea. You winch up the plane as you would onto a trailer, until she
is horizontal (good position) and then folding the wings is easy 'cause they
are horizontal. And you do not have to remove fuel from the tanks. But I would
suggest having having shut off valves to stop fuel migrating from one tank to
the other, in case of unlevel ground.
Don't forget to place the shut off valves on the pre-flight check list!
Cheers Eric.
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
I too have the Grove tail spring. I believe the failures recorded so far
were due to the spring chaffing on the steel mounting brk/bolts and wearing
a depression thus causing a stress fracture. I have mounted mine in a nylon
block to stop this, looks good so far, does have a degree of spring to it.
Same stuff as the main legs..Picture if you wish. John
From: "Rex Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: broken tailwheel spring
I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break yesterday during taxi,
just after landing on a grass runway...slightly bumpy surface.
Fortunately I had a spare leaf that my instructor and I changed out
rather quickly. Now I'll be looking for a replacement spring. The plane
now has just over 158 hours on it. How are other 'fox owners finding
the tailwheel springs holding up? Mine uses the main spring, and one
other "booster" spring leaf. My main broke just about a half-inch
forward of the tapered end of the booster spring leaf.
Hi ! Lynn,
sorry to hear your tailspring broke but I'm glad it was no
big problem. I have the Grove spring on mine but I thought I heard this was
no longer available. It's spring aluminium although I don't know where the
spring comes from as it seems rock solid as far as I can determine. This
part worries me somewhat from that point of view. I have watched some steel
leaf springs and to me they look much gentler on the airframe. However I
guess a broken spring can be rather hard on things, so what is the best
answer. I am not sure but I believe the Grove spring doesn't break. [ Cross
my fingers ]
Rex from Australia.
_________________________________________________________________
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
Message 51
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Well said John....:>)
Dan, Mesa
314DW - IV- 912s- Groves spring gear
John Anderson <janderson412@hotmail.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
Ask seasoned Spitfire / Mustang pilots. The former type is a pig on the
ground to the latter as he's used to the wider Mustang track. But the
Spitfire pilot knows no diff...until he tries the Mustang..
From: "Dave"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Grove gear
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave"
Mike ,
Are you saying it is less safe to fly a Kitfox without a Grove gear ?
I think a poll should be done on that topic alone. Have you had a bad
experience with a tube gear ?
Sorry I cannot see how a proficient pillot could make a statement like that.
Dave
----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxmike"
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Grove gear
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxmike"
>
>why is it that when something is harder, it's the way to go??? I have
>flown both the bungy gear and the grove gear and I will say the grove is
>much safer and easier to land. My self, I prefer the safer. I have the
>grove and that's that. When you have a landing that is hard(you know those
>last couple feet and you just drop for no reason), the grove is going to
>hold up, when you come in and get a dust devil that throws you around, the
>grove will help(wider stance). Oh and lets not forget, you don't have to
>put those bungies on every year either, or after a hard one.
>
>--------
>kitfoxmike
>kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
>http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
>rv7 wingkit
>reserved 287RV
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62251#62251
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Check out the latest video @ http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
Kurt, I just picked up this thread so forgive if redundancy occurs...I am about
to put ribs in my vertical stab and wondered what kind of foam did you use and
how thick? did you wrap them w/ anything?
Thanks,
Dan
kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
I used the plywood ribs for the H. Stab, but used a
copy machine and only the one largest rib as a
template for the V. Stab. I just resized the largest
rib down with the copier to fit in each smaller space
using the copy machine. Then I cut foam for the rib,
but you can stick to the plywood if you want.
Kurt S.
--- Bob Unternaehrer wrote:
> Does anyone have some pics or drawings with
> dimensions of the "airfoil" type empennage that I
> think was used on the Late model 4 and up? I think
> it was an option and used plywood ribs that were
> either bowed in like a symmetrical airfoil or maybe
> just bowed on top like the wing airfoil.
>
> Also what was the Idea of using it as opposed to a
> "flat" surface on the empennage?
>
> Was it used only on the horizontal and vertical
> stabs or did it include the rudder and elevator?
>
> Is it still used today on the mod VII etc?
>
> Blue Skies
> Bob Unternaehrer
> shilocom@mcmsys.com
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
I hope you have thought this through . YOu say it looks more secure than the
existing set up .
Did you do any enginerring onthis or strees test or are you just going to
trust your { looks better judgement}.
I am not trying to be crass about this but it is your life when the wings
decide to change there line of flight when the pin removes itself from the root
of the attach point .
Just my thoughts and only mine no one made me say any of this .
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
Hi John.
I will leave Brett answer the question.
I was thinking it was a good idea if the same tensile strength bolt was used
as the existing pin.
And I think, as long as all the threads poke out at the bottom of the
aluminum tube a washer is used and then the wing nut and the existing safety clip
is
used then everything should be as safe as designed but look a little more
secure.
Have you ever looked out the corner of the window and had deep thoughts about
tonight's game when you see the little safety clip rattling around with no
support in the relatively larger hole in the pin?
Sometimes I think a little chewing gum stopping the rattling would make me
feel better :)
Any engineers out there?
Eric.
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? |
Well guys, I posted earlier today that is takes about 5 minutes to fold
or unfold wings. True enough if it was level the wings would not have
the extra weight going backwards but it really is not a issue when
folding as much as when you fold back out. I have folded when on floats
and that is real easy. If you havea floor jack in your shop set the
tailwheel on it and jack it up to a more level attitude to fold wings
out. And like wise before folding wings just lift the tail onto the jack
and jack it up.
As far as the bolt idea with nuts....... well sure why not but don't be
torquing that nut down and crush your attach points. The simple clevis
pin works pretty well and you can see the safety pin on pre-flight as
well as when you are flying.
I pull them into shop door on Straight skis and once at the concrete,
put a 2 x 6 on top of floor jack pad and jack up under the axles and
just pull the plane in.
On the lighter side of things , would you rather fold and unfold your
Kitfox to fly or have to do all the unfolding of chutes on those para
planes. ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Ceashman@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each
flight?
Another point is that, the wing, even with empty tanks, is heavy in a
taildragger attitude. It needs two people to fold it; one to remove the
pin, and one to hold the wing from swinging back uncontrolled. You need
also to watch the flaperons as the come inside of the removed
turtledeck. A dolly would make this a one-man's job, I think.
As I said, I haven't made the dolly so I don't know how well it would
work. Maybe someone else on the list has tried it.
Cheers,
Michel
Hi Michel.
You are correct about the attitude of the airplane while folding the
wings. It can be done single handed but not with large quantities of
fuel in the tanks and you do not need any distractions or you will bend
something.
I think the wheeled dolly (big wheels because of the farm like
setting) is a brilliant idea. You winch up the plane as you would onto a
trailer, until she is horizontal (good position) and then folding the
wings is easy 'cause they are horizontal. And you do not have to remove
fuel from the tanks. But I would suggest having having shut off valves
to stop fuel migrating from one tank to the other, in case of unlevel
ground.
Don't forget to place the shut off valves on the pre-flight check
list!
Cheers Eric.
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
Either pins or bolts (AN), it shouldn't matter, in my opinion. They're
both plenty strong. Your concern about the bolt being too tight is
valid though. I'd tighten it only enough to take out the slack and use
a castle nut with cotter. One thing that is important though is to keep
plenty of grease on the pins and the hole. I use a que tip to ensure
the whole inside is coated with a light smear of grease.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Rex Shaw
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200
I bought the plane with a bolted wing/cotter pin at the leading edge
because the
previous owner never folded the wings. I am planning to fold the
wings more
often and I wonder if I can use a clevis pin or how was it
designed in the first
place ??
Can anyone tell me what to get and stay safe ??
I believe the Clevis pin with a safety pin is the original and this is
what mine has. I also believe it's quite safe despite the fact it seems
there is some chafing at this point and a little grease is therefore a
good thing. On my left wing there is a slight amount of play developed.
Very hard to detect moving the end of the wing but it is there. I bought
some AN bolts and castelated nuts to replace the Clevis pins as I never
fold the wings anyway. However I have never fitted them on second
thought as I'm not sure which is the best way to go. I was thinking
maybe the bolts with a rubber and steel washer each end and making sure
the thread is clear of the holes in the spar was perhaps the way to go
but then I'm still thinking I'm forcing the aluminium spar hard against
the steel tube in the fuselage framework and any movement that might
still occur will grind quicker into the aluminium.
I too would like comments on all this. I did ask the question once
before and it was pointed out that there was not any real force at this
point. In fact it was stated that you could pull that pin in flight and
the wing would stay put. I don't wish to dispute that but I and others
can't get our heads around that.
Any discussion on this ?????
Rex.
Message 56
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
Who flies conventional gear at night? I need some pointers.
Thanks!
Ben
--------
Don't forget to join the Kitfox Frappr Map:
http://www.frappr.com/kitfox
And post some pictures.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62406#62406
Message 57
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Not beeing too commercially minded at present, I am only able to take checks
and the way it will work is I will enclose self addressed envelope
What I will need off list is your address or on list if you are not nervous
about letting the world know where you live. I will then post the CD and
you can do the rest.
Lowell
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru. WAS: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" <vcmi@lewiston.com>
I am still installing, waiting for engine mount, have all the rest. Do you
have any picts of your installation. I still have the round bump cowl and
dont know how much mod will be required. Anything would help, Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:38 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabiru. WAS: broken tailwheel spring
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Hello Jerry,
>
> On Sep 17, 2006, at 5:43 PM, Jerry wrote:
>> I have removed a Rotax 583 fwf and am installing a Jabiru 2200. I would
>> like info from anyone that has a Jabiru conversion.
>
> I change my 582 for a Jabiru 2200, one and half year ago, on my Kitfox
> model 3. Since then I have been flying 160 hours of pure delight. In a
> nutshell, the Jabiru is a good engine, easy to install, but most of the
> work is in the modification of the cowling that will make the engine room
> a good air circulation chamber and keep the engine cool. Since you have
> already brought a model 1 to model 4, I guess working with fiberglass
> won't scare you. Try to do it exactly as your Jabiru dealer tells you to.
> The outlet, under the firewall must be 4 times as big as the two ram air
> ducts, and oil cooler inlet, combined. To really move the air, the outlet
> must be shaped to create a low pressure. Mine has a scoop that is tilted
> 45 degrees and ... it really sucks! (if you excuse my pund! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" <vcmi@lewiston.com>
Nice list, I am Jerry Bateman, Lewiston Idaho, I have a model 1 with
modifications from 2,3,4. My plane will have a Jabiru 2200 soon and the
tail # is N 87TJ, It was built and rebuilt during the 90 tys.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 1:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Model, Engine etc
> Attached is the organized data from the engine type survey.
>
> Keep me posted if there are any other that want to be on it.
>
> Lowell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
There is definately force on this part in flight, but
it is pushing in, so the wing would move inward until
something else stopped it, if the pin was removed. It
would change your sweep a little forward I suppose.
For most of us, the butt ribs coming together would be
the next stopping point?
On the ground the wing would obviously want to swing
outward without the pin. Nothing to stop it.
I think the lube idea is a good one to reduce the
wear. A snug fit is the best. A loose fit would
cause wear on whatever has the bigger hole, probably
the spar and brackets. Lubing this will let it wear
more slowly.
Once it is worn too much, you will need spar inserts
to reinforce it, or new reinforcing fittings to
replace the old. It is definately too much whenever
it can snap back and forth on the pin and shock the
pin in shear, in my opinion. A little movement is not
that bad though. It will wear eventually, but the
lube will make that time farther off.
I think the pin is fine to use. I agree squashing
aluminum that can move with a bolt may only mask
things and make them worse. Just one opinion off the
cuff. If it gets too loose for a pin, fix it.
Kurt S. S-5
--- Rex Shaw <rexjan@bigpond.com> wrote:
> I believe the Clevis pin with a safety pin is the
> original and this is what mine has. I also believe
> it's quite safe despite the fact it seems there is
> some chafing at this point and a little grease is
> therefore a good thing. On my left wing there is a
> slight amount of play developed. Very hard to detect
> moving the end of the wing but it is there. I bought
> some AN bolts and castelated nuts to replace the
> Clevis pins as I never fold the wings anyway.
> However I have never fitted them on second thought
> as I'm not sure which is the best way to go. I was
> thinking maybe the bolts with a rubber and steel
> washer each end and making sure the thread is clear
> of the holes in the spar was perhaps the way to go
> but then I'm still thinking I'm forcing the
> aluminium spar hard against the steel tube in the
> fuselage framework and any movement that might still
> occur will grind quicker into the aluminium.
> I too would like comments on all this. I did ask
> the question once before and it was pointed out that
> there was not any real force at this point. In fact
> it was stated that you could pull that pin in flight
> and the wing would stay put. I don't wish to dispute
> that but I and others can't get our heads around
> that.
> Any discussion on this ?????
> Rex.
__________________________________________________
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: broken tailwheel spring |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I wonder if your tail is just too light for the Al
tail spring? Did Grove make them different sizes for
light to heavy tails? One size does not fit all here.
30 lbs on the tail is a lot different ride than 65 lbs
or more. That is a guess at the ranges we fly with,
but I don't know. Haven't weighed mine under load,
only empty.
I know some have seen 150 lbs with wings folded and
that is too much for flight.
Kurt S.
__________________________________________________
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: need landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" <vcmi@lewiston.com>
How could I find out more about this gear conversion, I am currently
installing a Jabiru 2200 and would like to make all changes at once. I do
not like squirley airplanes and anything to make them better is always
welcome. Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allen" <kitfoxfugit@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: need landing gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Allen <kitfoxfugit@yahoo.com>
>
> I started flying with the Grove gear, wheels and
> brakes a week ago on a Kitfox IV Speedster with 912UL.
> The original landing gear, consisting of
> fabric-covered welded tubes suspended with bungees,
> lousy brakes, one piece wheels and square shouldered
> trailer tires, was a squirrly beast on takeoff and
> landing, always wanting to dart off to the side.
> After breaking a bungee on a bounced landing, I
> decided to change it.
>
> Now, it is all improved from the fuselage down,
> aluminum gear, real airplane wheels, excellent brakes
> and 6:00 x 6 airplane tires. It tracks straight
> taxiing (even with feet off the pedals), taking off,
> and landing. It is very stable. Land on one wheel
> and it will settle onto the other. Get blown crooked
> and a little rudder pressure brings it straight. It
> is one piece, aligned straight when made. It is not
> wobbly like a Cessna 140's steel gear. It is easier
> to get in and out since it is not in the way as the
> tube gear was. The Grove setup is a vast improvement.
> It tamed the little beast and I can go to tundra
> tires later if I want. I can't say whether it
> affected the speed but don't think so as it seems like
> it can still go pretty fast even without wheel pants.
> I haven't determined the weight difference yet,
> although we weighed the plane after installation.
>
> I have no reason to keep the steel gear any more.
>
> John Allen
> 209-223-5705
>
> -->9/16/06 Kitfox-List message posted by: "GRPP"
> <kevinnickel@goinet.ca> said
> i am thinking of upgrading to grove gear and would
> like any opinions on doing so.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 63
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
My Al cuff covers the pin and safety pin. I can still
see them from inside, but they can't come apart or
even wear much as long as the cuff traps them
together.
I used 1/16th" self sticking rubber on the inside of
the cuff to keep it from wearing or leaking rain.
Seems to work so far.
Now to stir up trouble: What happens when you fold
the wings on the Vexin? Does it fall on the tail?
Not trying to cause trouble, but really wondering....
Kurt S. S-5
> Have you ever looked out the corner of the window
> and had deep thoughts about
> tonight's game when you see the little safety clip
> rattling around with no
> support in the relatively larger hole in the pin?
> Sometimes I think a little chewing gum stopping the
> rattling would make me
> feel better :)
>
> Any engineers out there?
> Eric.
__________________________________________________
Message 64
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|
| Subject: | Re: Factory help - John and Debra |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" <vcmi@lewiston.com>
Do you have the jabiru engine in your bird,, I am converting and need info.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help - John and Debra
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I just got off the phone with John, after ordering an in-stock replacement
> spring of better-than-original-design for my recently broken (original)
> tailwheel spring, Jose, and I'm sure your experiences will parallel mine
> in dealing with the new Kitfox owners.
>
> Lynn
>
> On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 03:44 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>>
>> John:
>>
>> Sometimes its great to be wrong! I'm very pleased of
>> the massive positive feedback that you, Debra and your
>> company received in response to my e-mail, and to
>> learn that, after all, "we are not alone". It is very
>> important for us, earlier Kitfox owners, to know that
>> there is support available "when things get tough".
>>
>> I will contact you off the list to make the
>> arrangements to send my old, rusty wing lift strut.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jos
>>
>>
>>
>> --- jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
>>> <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>>>
>>> Jose,
>>> Unfortunately the fixtures for the Model 1
>>> and 2 lift struts are no
>>> longer available... We can duplicate them from yours
>>> and that has been and
>>> can be done again.
>>>
>>> I did get your emails from the 1st of September...
>>> but missed them.. I'm
>>> sorry.
>>>
>>> Fly Safe !!
>>> John & Debra McBean
>>> 208.337.5111
>>> www.kitfoxaircraft.com www.sportplanellc.com
>>> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
>>> Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
>>> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:11 PM
>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help
>>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
>>> <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> Duane:
>>>
>>> It is not clear what is driving you to write this
>>> e-mail, but seems to me like your experience and
>>> mine
>>> with the new factory have been different. A couple
>>> of
>>> weeks ago I did many attempts to get support from
>>> the
>>> factory on how to fix or replace the heavily
>>> corroded
>>> wing lift struts of my Kitfox II. I did not
>>> received
>>> any response from the new factory. I was expecting
>>> at
>>> least some technical support/advisory on how to fix
>>> this problem.
>>>
>>> Since this Kitfox was built by Dan Denney and not by
>>> Kitfox LLC, it is acceptable if they can't help me.
>>> Probably John McBean is avoiding any liability
>>> related
>>> to providing advisory to somebody fixing a plane
>>> that
>>> was not sold by him. That, again, is acceptable.
>>> His
>>> business is buiding awesome, brand new Kitfox kits,
>>> and it is great somebody is taking care of this.
>>>
>>> Based on my experience, if you have an early Kitfox,
>>> Model 1 thru 3, the factory that made your plane no
>>> longer exist and you are on your own. Since these
>>> are
>>> experimental aircrafts, this is also acceptable, but
>>> it is important that you are aware of it. Must also
>>> mentioned that the factory that made the Kitfox IV,
>>> Skystar, neither exist, so this information may
>>> apply
>>> to Model IV as well.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>>
>>> Jose Toro
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- "Rueb, Duane" <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane"
>>>> <ruebd@skymail.csus.edu>
>>>>
>>>> To My Fellow Kitfoxers:
>>>>
>>>> It is so nice to have a factory again to
>>> help us
>>>> with our parts
>>>> and information and kit needs; especially the
>>>> particular group of folks
>>>> that we got - Debra and John McBean, and their
>>>> staff.
>>>> I think that we all breathe a little easier
>>> to know
>>>> that Kitfox
>>>> is now a viable company with friendly, helpful
>>> folks
>>>> there to satisfy
>>>> our many questions with good, solid answers and
>>> the
>>>> right products.
>>>> I, therefore think we owe some allegiance to
>>> those
>>>> who were
>>>> willing to take on the not small task of carrying
>>>> forward the Kitfox
>>>> banner, and so, as we are the primary
>>> beneficiaries
>>>> of having a factory
>>>> to consult, the least we can do in return is to
>>>> patronize that same
>>>> factory when we make purchases for the
>>>> up-grade/repair, or modification
>>>> of our little aircraft.
>>>> It is basically not reasonable for us to
>>> expect the
>>>> factory to
>>>> support us with information, and then for us to
>>>> purchase our parts
>>>> elsewhere. Moreover, when we do this, we are
>>>> jeopardizing the future of
>>>> our investment in our own KItfoxes.
>>>> If we expect to have a factory to help us
>>> when we
>>>> are in need,
>>>> then we owe them the consideration of doing
>>> business
>>>> with them whenever
>>>> possible, because this is the only way that they
>>> can
>>>> be there for us in
>>>> the future.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely, Duane Rueb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> browse
>>>> Subscriptions page,
>>>> FAQ,
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>>>
>>>> Web Forums!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Admin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> browse
>>> Subscriptions page,
>>> FAQ,
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>>
>>> Web Forums!
>>>
>>>
>>> Admin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: Airfoils on empanage |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hey Dan,
ACS has some great yellow foam something like SS used
for gap seals, but a little lighter. I think I used
2" thick and doubled where needed. A 4' x 4' piece.
I just shaped the foam in as a full leading edge piece
to the widest part, with 3 ribs - top, bottom and
middle - back from there. The top and bottom plywood
ribs were the sanding forms to shape to. Looks almost
solid. A big hotwire would have been easier....
You can epoxy some very light fiberglass over the
foam, but I just covered with fabric and left it that
way. It will probably destroy the foam when I need to
recover later though. The polybrush probably
penetrated the surface of the foam for a bit and I
expect it will rip out with the fabric in another 25
years. Always hangared. :-)
Not a hard job to redo the foam though. Next time I
will use the epoxy and light glass over it. The model
hobby shops have the best light weight glass I found.
I weighed the parts, but forgot by now how much it
added. I seem to remember 6 oz max without the
fiberglass. You can hollow out the foam, careful to
leave a web, and offset the weight of the glass a
little. My tail still came in light and I am nose
heavy, so it wouldn't have been a problem to glass it.
If you haven't covered the H stab, now is the time to
put in a good gap seal. Just add a piece of foam to
the rear of the stab, front of the elevator, or both,
your choice, and leave enough room for the fabric.
Shape to allow full control movement and glass on.
I didn't do it and now have to use tape. The foam is
just a little more aerodynamic.
Kurt S.
--- Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com> wrote:
> Kurt, I just picked up this thread so forgive if
> redundancy occurs...I am about to put ribs in my
> vertical stab and wondered what kind of foam did you
> use and how thick? did you wrap them w/ anything?
> Thanks,
> Dan
__________________________________________________
Message 66
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Nice to see you Jerry!
You'll like it here. The worst thing is finding out
all you could have done better. The best thing is
they will save you money and maybe some risk.
Kurt S. S-5
--- Jerry <vcmi@lewiston.com> wrote:
> Nice list, I am Jerry Bateman, Lewiston Idaho, I
> have a model 1 with
> modifications from 2,3,4. My plane will have a
> Jabiru 2200 soon and the
> tail # is N 87TJ, It was built and rebuilt during
> the 90 tys.
__________________________________________________
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|
Ron, my advice is to do it. We switched to Grove gear a couple of years ago
and it was the best investment we have made in the aircraft. Much easier to
handle on the ground, x-wind landings are much easier and the gear does not
bounce as much as the bungies. I've done landings that may have collapsed
the original gear but the Grove gear just absorbed the impacts and kept the
aircraft straight and manageable on the runway. It's like flying in a
different aircraft.
J. Trevor Leathem
Ontario, Canada
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Don't know, but it looks like you got about 1/3 of the
total list, which is a pretty good responce for most
things.
Thanks for the work!
Kurt S.
--- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Attached is the organized data from the engine type
> survey.
>
> Keep me posted if there are any other that want to
> be on it.
>
> Lowell
__________________________________________________
Message 69
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|
| Subject: | Re: Night flight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
I do . This should have been taught to you in flight school . If not then
you did not have a very good instructor . Of course this is only my opinion
and no one twisted my arm to make me say this .
The way take off is ,look down the side of the cowling and keep the runway
lights parallel to you until tail lifts then can see where I / YOU are going
no problem . I have very good landing lights . landing is done with mains
touching first straight down runway watch left edge of runway lights while
pulling slowly back on stick till tail touches at around 20 mph . The plane
then slows to a crawl and I taxi in watching ahead and doing slight s turns
to make shure nothing is in my path of travel .
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582/ subbie soon
TD/ Straight floats
Message 70
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| Subject: | Re: Night flight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
Thanks John, I'm in flight school. I have about 15 solo hours in my Model 5 and
would be doing x-c if it wasn't for the morning fog. I think I scared my instructer
when I told him the runway lights were too far apart to use for reference
when landing! Seems he is having second thoughts.
That makes sense to do wheel landings for the visual reference. Thanks for the
advice!
Ben
--------
Don't forget to join the Kitfox Frappr Map:
http://www.frappr.com/kitfox
And post some pictures.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62440#62440
Message 71
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| Subject: | Re: Night flight |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
LMAO. OK I now understand . hmmmmmm If your instructor is scared he is a
smart instructor lol . Jk . Hopefully he will give alot of night time flying
most instructors i have met now days do very little instruction at night for
the reason alot of mishaps happen but i you learn to land in the daytime
with a TD doing wheel landings and full stall three pointers then you
should not have much of a problem . Keep on the rudder and do not get
complacent . I have not found another plane as fun as the Kitfox yet . On
my plane i have the original bungee gear and not had any problems . She has
almost 600 hours on her .
I love it keep up the good work you will get your ticket soon.
Fly safe fly low fly slow FLY FUN FLY KITFOX
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582/subbie soon
TD/ Straight Floats
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben-PA" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Night flight
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
>
> Thanks John, I'm in flight school. I have about 15 solo hours in my Model
> 5 and would be doing x-c if it wasn't for the morning fog. I think I
> scared my instructer when I told him the runway lights were too far apart
> to use for reference when landing! Seems he is having second thoughts.
>
> That makes sense to do wheel landings for the visual reference. Thanks for
> the advice!
> Ben
Message 72
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| Subject: | anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Poe" <boscoaircraft@hotmail.com>
I am having problems with my MC-1 and MC-3 Matco's dragging, getting hot and
locking up. I cleaned and rebuilt them and after 10 hours the same thing
happened. Are the new Matco's any better? The machine work on the insides
were of poor quality when I rebuilt them. Jerry Poe
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 73
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
My Avid trigear falls over and leaks fuel if over 5 gallons aboard. Ron NB
Ore
>From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:16:49 -0700 (PDT)
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
><smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>My Al cuff covers the pin and safety pin. I can still
>see them from inside, but they can't come apart or
>even wear much as long as the cuff traps them
>together.
>
>I used 1/16th" self sticking rubber on the inside of
>the cuff to keep it from wearing or leaking rain.
>Seems to work so far.
>
>Now to stir up trouble: What happens when you fold
>the wings on the Vexin? Does it fall on the tail?
>Not trying to cause trouble, but really wondering....
>
>Kurt S. S-5
>
> > Have you ever looked out the corner of the window
> > and had deep thoughts about
> > tonight's game when you see the little safety clip
> > rattling around with no
> > support in the relatively larger hole in the pin?
> > Sometimes I think a little chewing gum stopping the
> > rattling would make me
> > feel better :)
> >
> > Any engineers out there?
> > Eric.
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
Message 74
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| Subject: | anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Jerry I had to clearance my peddles where the clevis connected to the master
cyl. The cylinders need to extend all the way in both deflections of the
rudder. Mine bound in ceartain positions. Ron NB Ore
>From: "Jerry Poe" <boscoaircraft@hotmail.com>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes?
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:47:17 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Poe" <boscoaircraft@hotmail.com>
>
>I am having problems with my MC-1 and MC-3 Matco's dragging, getting hot
>and locking up. I cleaned and rebuilt them and after 10 hours the same
>thing happened. Are the new Matco's any better? The machine work on the
>insides were of poor quality when I rebuilt them. Jerry Poe
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Searchsay hello!
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Message 75
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| Subject: | Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: WBL <aeromer@ix.netcom.com>
I wanted to get down to Brown Field on Saturday but a fuel leak on my Kitfox had
me grounded. Did anyone show up? Pete KF-IV 1050 N102KM
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jake Lewis <jakelewis22@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2006 6:27 AM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th
>
>Hello All,
>
> I wanted to get the word out that EAA chapter 14 in San Diego, CA is hosting
a Kitfox fly-in this Saturday, September 16th at Brown Field. I contacted the
chapter event coordinator to ask how many Kitfox's they were expecting and he
had no idea. He said that he was relying on the word to travel through the
Kitfox community.
>
> I am thinking about purchasing a Kitfox in the near future and was hoping this event would give me a chance to see several aircraft and speak to their owners. Here is chapter 14's web site in case you have any questions http://www.eaa14.org
>
> Please spread the word!
>
> Hope to see you there,
> Jake Lewis
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
Message 76
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| Subject: | SELLING KITFOX SKYSTAR VIXEN |
Your email address failed for some reason. Could you send the pics of
the plane or your web address.
Thanks
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lemontree3
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 11:11 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: SELLING KITFOX SKYSTAR VIXEN
I have for sale my Kitfox Skystar Vixen , Tri gear , Eggenfellner 2.5L
100HP Subaru engine with a warp drive prop all new and is running on
airframe. It has extended wings and heavy struts and wheel pants. This
vixen was built with fast build kits. It needs cowl and fuselage cover,
the rest is done. I have all receipts. It can still be licensed as
owner/builder. Sell for $24,000. If interested in purchasing this
Kitfox Vixen - E-mail me for further information and phone number- This
plane is located in Northeast Michigan. Lemontree3
lemontree3@charter.net <mailto:Lemontreelemontree3@charter.net>
Message 77
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| Subject: | KITFOX PARTS AND OTHER AIRCRAFT PARTS FOR SALE UPDATE: |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" <wingsdown@comcast.net>
KITFOX PARTS AND OTHER AIRCRAFT PARTS FOR SALE UPDATE: 091706
Custom air oil separators (as seen on sportflight pic post) $150.00
each......................both for 250
CAP 140 complete hub assembly for NSI redrive, may fit others, no blades
$1,500 OBO.............
E.I digital EGT instrument, no probe $180 each or both for
$300.00....................
Hand held radio Yaesu VXA-200. This was there top of the line model and
should be compared to same now, has altitude,density altitude,pressure
alt. Temp, VOR heading plus extra Nmhi battery and programming software
and cable, list was over $600.00 sell for $350.00....................
Electric clock model MD-90 $60.00.....................
Electric servo/ jack screw assembly $500.00 OBO..................
Wheel pant left side only painted ready to mount or repaint
$50.00............
VDO gages:
2 1/8 tack , water temp,oil pressure, boost, large RPM 3 1/8 maybe 1/4,
EGT make offer..............
Horizontal Stabilator faired strut braces pair $100.00.................
Custom super trapp exhaust system. Will require the welding of a 3 bolt
flange to exhaust down pipe. $300.00 Pics on request....................
EA-81 turbo engine parts, blocks, engine mounts left and right, cranks,
rods, push rods, heads, cams, open price to be set, accepting
offers................
NSI alternator pulley New $60.00.......................
SS flight controls all factory parts available in excellent
condition....................
Carbon monoxide by co-guardian. Plugs into lighter socket audible plus
digital level indicator. They have a web site. $99.00 ...............
Airborne vacuum regulator valve model 2H3-23 #9AK FAA PMA list $728.00
in ACS catalog make offer..................
Airborne filter mount with filter best offer.............
Mr. Funnel large for water seperation funnel filling of fuel
$20.00...............
Remote PTT $5.00 with other purchse..............
Cessna dual vacuume gage with pop up no vac indicators can be used on
single system PN C668519-0101 $35.00............
Tire or tyre front Aero classic 11X4.00-5 8ply with new tube
$40.00......................
Thanks so much
Rick
Message 78
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> From: Jerry [vcmi@lewiston.com]
> I am still installing, waiting for engine mount, have all the rest. Do you
> have any picts of your installation. I still have the round bump cowl and
> dont know how much mod will be required. Anything would help, Thanks.
I will send you some photos this evening, Jerry.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
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