---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/19/06: 67 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:34 AM - Re: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (fix the wing pin) (Ceashman@AOL.COM) 2. 04:57 AM - Re: broken tailwheel spring (Lynn Matteson) 3. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Lynn Matteson) 4. 05:22 AM - Re: Aircraft Model, Engine etc (Lynn Matteson) 5. 05:30 AM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Michel Verheughe) 6. 05:31 AM - Re: need landing gear (Lynn Matteson) 7. 05:40 AM - Re: Factory help - John and Debra (Lynn Matteson) 8. 05:55 AM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (Michel Verheughe) 9. 06:01 AM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (Dan Billingsley) 10. 06:48 AM - Re: [Off-topic] ham (Rueb, Duane) 11. 06:51 AM - Re: Jab in KitFox (Michel Verheughe) 12. 06:59 AM - Re: CNBC Video segment and video (Michel Verheughe) 13. 07:09 AM - Re: need landing gear (Lowell Fitt) 14. 07:17 AM - Re: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? (Lowell Fitt) 15. 07:28 AM - Re: need landing gear (Dave) 16. 07:55 AM - Short Takeoff (Ben-PA) 17. 08:20 AM - Re: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th (Guy Buchanan) 18. 08:52 AM - Re: Short Takeoff (Lynn Matteson) 19. 09:06 AM - Re: Short Takeoff (Ben-PA) 20. 09:30 AM - Re: Short Takeoff (Dave) 21. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: CNBC Video segment and video (George Wells@adelphia.net) 22. 10:35 AM - 912 ULS Ignition installation (Lyle Persels) 23. 10:42 AM - Re: Short Takeoff (Lynn Matteson) 24. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Short Takeoff () 25. 11:11 AM - Re: Airfoils on empanage (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 26. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: Short Takeoff (Lynn Matteson) 27. 11:25 AM - Re: 912 ULS Ignition installation (dcsfoto) 28. 11:33 AM - Installing a low fuel level sensor (HMDOUD) 29. 12:01 PM - Re: Installing a low fuel level sensor (Guy Buchanan) 30. 12:12 PM - Re: Installing a low fuel level sensor (flier) 31. 12:25 PM - Insuring your Kitfox (Chris In Madison) 32. 12:32 PM - Re: Insuring your Kitfox (Ben-PA) 33. 12:47 PM - Re: Installing a low fuel level sensor (John Oakley) 34. 01:06 PM - Re: Short Takeoff (Richard Rabbers) 35. 01:31 PM - Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Nick Scholtes) 36. 01:57 PM - Re: Insuring your Kitfox (Gary Olson) 37. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: CNBC Video segment and video (Lowell Fitt) 38. 02:27 PM - Re: Installing a low fuel level sensor (Lynn Matteson) 39. 02:32 PM - Model V Baggage (dcsfoto) 40. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: Short Takeoff (Lynn Matteson) 41. 02:32 PM - Re: Installing a low fuel level sensor (Marco Menezes) 42. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Lynn Matteson) 43. 02:37 PM - Fox Video Footage (kitfoxjunky) 44. 03:10 PM - Added to the database (Lowell Fitt) 45. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Short Takeoff (Michel Verheughe) 46. 03:20 PM - Re: Short Takeoff (Richard Rabbers) 47. 03:28 PM - Re: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? (Paul) 48. 03:29 PM - Evans Coolant (Ben Burbridge) 49. 05:03 PM - Re: Evans Coolant (Lowell Fitt) 50. 05:57 PM - Re: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? (Malcolmbru@aol.com) 51. 05:57 PM - Re: Evans Coolant (flier) 52. 06:06 PM - Re: Installing a low fuel level sensor (Jerry) 53. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Michel) (Ceashman@aol.com) 54. 06:28 PM - Re: Evans Coolant (Randy Daughenbaugh) 55. 06:34 PM - Re: Evans Coolant (Ben-PA) 56. 06:45 PM - Re: Short Takeoff DAVE (Malcolmbru@aol.com) 57. 07:27 PM - Re: Insuring your Kitfox (Guy Buchanan) 58. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Short Takeoff (Guy Buchanan) 59. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: Short Takeoff (Guy Buchanan) 60. 07:34 PM - Re: Fox Video Footage (jimcarriere) 61. 07:58 PM - Re: Short Takeoff (Richard Rabbers) 62. 08:09 PM - Re: Short Takeoff DAVE (Lynn Matteson) 63. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Evans Coolant (wingsdown) 64. 08:58 PM - Re: Short Takeoff DAVE (Richard Rabbers) 65. 09:33 PM - metal bushings in the poly header tank (Richard D'Archangel) 66. 09:46 PM - Re: Short Takeoff (Jose M. Toro) 67. 10:45 PM - Tailwheel dolly question (parahawk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:36 AM PST US From: Ceashman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Folding Wing Kitfox IV-1200 (fix the wing pin) message posted by: kurt schrader My Al cuff covers the pin and safety pin. I can still see them from inside, but they can't come apart or even wear much as long as the cuff traps them together. I used 1/16th" self sticking rubber on the inside of the cuff to keep it from wearing or leaking rain. Seems to work so far. Hi Kurt. Are you talking about the small aluminum cuffs that transition the wings leading edge to the windshield? Buggers to make, to form the pattern to match the form of the window! and then again when I went with the LP molded windshield...double bugger!! Anyway, I shaped my cuffs that would allow me to remove the pins so that I could fold the wings. I just shaped little notches in the cuffs that I could slide the wing pin out. During pre-flight, I always check my safety pin from outside. I can touch it, spin it and bless it. I also made a small flat rubber shingle looking thing that keeps the slip stream from swirling into the recess where the pin is dropped in between the top windshield and the butt rib. Being a rubber flap, the pin pushes it out of the way during extraction and I can hold it forward when I need to insert the wing pin. Two small rivets with very thin washers holds the rubber shingle to the cuff. All on the list. >From reading this thread topic. I see no reason why I should not change to a bolt and castle nut or a wing nut and secure the nut with a safety pin or split pin. Wing nut and safety pin if you intend to fold wings. Castle nut and split pin for a more permanent set up. (Not safer but just more permanent) I think the shear strength (sorry' I used the word tensile in my earlier email) should be equal to the original wing pin (I will have to look that up). And no threads. All threads should poke out the bottom of the spar tube so we don't get any abrasion. So careful selection of bolt shank length (the smooth shaft of the bolt) is important. What say you! If I do this, wanna come fly with me? Eric Ashman, Atlanta ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: broken tailwheel spring From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Hi Rex- Yes, from what I heard the Grove TW spring has been discontinued. I just ordered the 3-leaf spring from John McBean, and will try that when it arrives. My tailwheel weight was 43 pounds during the weigh-in at Airworthiness Certification time, with the total being 650 pounds. When I lift the rear with fuel aboard, it is quite a bit more than 43, and with 2 persons aboard, way more than that. I haven't done the math, but during a landing, especially during a soft field landing with the weight on the rear, that weight has got to be a big burden for the spring. Lynn On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 12:25 PM, Rex Shaw wrote: > I had the main leaf of my tailwheel spring break yesterday during taxi, > just after landing on a grass runway...slightly bumpy surface. > Fortunately I had a spare leaf that my instructor and I changed out > rather quickly. Now I'll be looking for a replacement spring. The plane > now has just over 158 hours on it. How are other 'fox owners finding > the tailwheel springs holding up? Mine uses the main spring, and one > other "booster" spring leaf. My main broke just about a half-inch > forward of the tapered end of the booster spring leaf. > Hi ! Lynn, > sorry to hear your tailspring broke but I'm glad it > was no big problem. I have the Grove spring on mine butI thought I > heard this was no longer available. It's spring aluminium although I > don't know where the spring comes from as it seems rock solid as far > as I can determine. This part worries me somewhat from that point of > view. I have watched some steel leaf springs and to me they look much > gentler on the airframe. However I guess a broken spring can be rather > hard on things, so what is the best answer. I am not sure but I > believe the Grove spring doesn't break. [ Cross my fingers ] > > Rex from Australia. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Michel- I have folded my wings alone on many occasions during the building of my plane, and have a few small scars on one flaperon to show for it. I hold the wing by the lift strut while pulling the clevis pin, then while holding the wing, I walk around the end of the wing and get hold of the flap, and allow the wing to swing back while pivoting the flap into position. I don't fold the wings any more, but it helps to use a small block of wood on a string that is placed between the wing and flap. This block keeps the flap from swinging down while the wing is being folded into position. When the flap is rotated upwards, the block will fall out, being retained by the string. The scars that I mentioned are from not paying close enough attention while folding and having the flap rub against the flap horn hinge...which I forgot to hinge down. Happily, I have a hangar at a grass strip 4 miles from home and the folding issue is no longer an issue...knock on wood. : ) Lynn Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200 On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 08:15 PM, Ceashman@aol.com wrote: > Another point is that, the wing, even with empty tanks, is heavy in a > taildragger attitude. It needs two people to fold it; one to remove > the pin, and one to hold the wing from swinging back uncontrolled. You > need also to watch the flaperons as the come inside of the removed > turtledeck. A dolly would make this a one-man's job, I think. > As I said, I haven't made the dolly so I don't know how well it would > work. Maybe someone else on the list has tried it. > > Cheers, > Michel ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Model, Engine etc From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Alright, Jerry! Good choice of engines...you won't be disappointed, I don't think. I'm very happy with my choice of the 2200. Lynn Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200 On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 09:02 PM, Jerry wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" > > Nice list, I am Jerry Bateman, Lewiston Idaho, I have a model 1 with > modifications from 2,3,4. My plane will have a Jabiru 2200 soon and > the tail # is N 87TJ, It was built and rebuilt during the 90 tys. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:52 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? > From: Ceashman@aol.com > I think the wheeled dolly (big wheels because of the farm like setting) is a > brilliant idea. Thank you Eric, it's good to know. Not that I need to fold my wings for the moment, but I am in a hangar that is condemned. We have to build a new one but ... you know how it is. I might, one day, be in need to a temporary situation where I'll need to foil the wings. And your mentioning of a big wheel makes me think more ... in direction of a bicycle wheel. Why not? An old bicycle, cut the frame and keep the front wheel and the fork. Hum, sounds good. What do you think? Cheers, Michel
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: need landing gear From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Jerry- I got my Grove gear during the building of my plane, thanks to this group, and especially to Rex from Australia, who first suggested it to me. The gear brackets fit into the tabs under the side of the fuselage, and is very easy to attach...a one-man job. I got the rifle-drilled gear, as it makes the brake line part of the job come out a lot cleaner. Lynn Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200 On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 09:11 PM, Jerry wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" > > How could I find out more about this gear conversion, I am currently > installing a Jabiru 2200 and would like to make all changes at once. > I do not like squirley airplanes and anything to make them better is > always welcome. Jerry ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Factory help - John and Debra From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I've got the Jabiru 2200 in my Model IV, Jerry, and I couldn't be happier. I had it test flown for me in late March, the 40 flown off by early May, and got instruction, and made my first solo in it in June. I now have over 150 hours on the plane and engine, and hardly a problem with either. Let me know what you need info on, and I'll be glad to help. Lynn Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200 On Monday, September 18, 2006, at 09:22 PM, Jerry wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" > > Do you have the jabiru engine in your bird,, I am converting and need > info. Jerry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:49 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Airfoils on empanage > From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com] > Remember the problems that the Cessna Cardinal had on > the first models? Sir, no Sir! At the time I was only flirting with the sea - my first love - and cardinal were only the points of the compass rose! :-) > I understand SS twisted the elevator to allow one side > to be at the top of the boundry layer while the other > side is at the bottom. Well, my Denney's model 3 has already that, Kurt. Maybe SkyStar increased it. > A good curved profile will do better than a sudden > change in a flat plate. Yes, and that's where simulation is doing a poor job because if standard NACA airfoils can be tested in a wind tunnel and the data transfered to a digital model, such oddity as an angled flat plate, cannot. Likewise, an open or sealed gap is not modelable in a simulator. Unless one uses CFD (Computerized Fluid Dynamics) which would exclude real-time simulation since it is so complex and time consuming. Then there is one last factor; a computer model is "clean." Reality never is. Do you remember that Mathias made a model for my "Avid" wing? It flew very well in the simulator. Too well! That's because our wings are never as perfect as a model. And how could they be with fabric on ribs? Cheers, Michel
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:39 AM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Airfoils on empanage Thanks for the info Kurt :>) Dan kurt schrader wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hey Dan, ACS has some great yellow foam something like SS used for gap seals, but a little lighter. I think I used 2" thick and doubled where needed. A 4' x 4' piece. I just shaped the foam in as a full leading edge piece to the widest part, with 3 ribs - top, bottom and middle - back from there. The top and bottom plywood ribs were the sanding forms to shape to. Looks almost solid. A big hotwire would have been easier.... You can epoxy some very light fiberglass over the foam, but I just covered with fabric and left it that way. It will probably destroy the foam when I need to recover later though. The polybrush probably penetrated the surface of the foam for a bit and I expect it will rip out with the fabric in another 25 years. Always hangared. :-) Not a hard job to redo the foam though. Next time I will use the epoxy and light glass over it. The model hobby shops have the best light weight glass I found. I weighed the parts, but forgot by now how much it added. I seem to remember 6 oz max without the fiberglass. You can hollow out the foam, careful to leave a web, and offset the weight of the glass a little. My tail still came in light and I am nose heavy, so it wouldn't have been a problem to glass it. If you haven't covered the H stab, now is the time to put in a good gap seal. Just add a piece of foam to the rear of the stab, front of the elevator, or both, your choice, and leave enough room for the fabric. Shape to allow full control movement and glass on. I didn't do it and now have to use tape. The foam is just a little more aerodynamic. Kurt S. --- Dan Billingsley wrote: > Kurt, I just picked up this thread so forgive if > redundancy occurs...I am about to put ribs in my > vertical stab and wondered what kind of foam did you > use and how thick? did you wrap them w/ anything? > Thanks, > Dan __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:49 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] ham From: "Rueb, Duane" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rueb, Duane" Yes, we are made up of more HAMs than so far indicated. I am only a tech class, and have not yet seen the need to go HF and code, but may yet do so. '73s' to all, Duane (KF6GYB) -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] ham --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Sep 18, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Glad to see another "Ham" has the flying "Fox" bug! Oh but I think we are several hams on this list, aren't we? I must admit that I have been CW only. I just love my old keyer and, like music, send slowly: tks fer nice qso dr om es cu agn vy sn = best 73 de la0ha sk e e Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:00 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Jab in KitFox > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net] > I love it, Bob! Not hard to install at all. Guys, although Lynn and I are separated by a big ocean, our minds and experiences work at unison. Listen to him, he has resumed the installation of a Jabiru engine quite well, I have nothing to add. Cheers, Michel do not archive
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:00 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CNBC Video segment and video > From: Dave and Diane [ddsyverson@comcast.net] > Lowell, Michel, and all, > A few members of our group put up aerial photos on the list or on a linked > web site. For those who do - PLEASE KEEP DOING SO. Thank you Dave. I am very flattered to be associated with Lowell in your comments. My modest photographing has little to do with his fantastic video shooting. Yet you give me another argument to fly even more. (my wife) -"What? You're going flying? Again?" (me) - "But darling, ... I must! You know, those builders are expecting me to ... they need my photos to keep on building ... such a responsability ... you must understand, don't you? ... :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:51 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: need landing gear --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Jerry, There is nothing inherently squirrely with the tube gear. I had both. (For those wondering, I changed out because I was having a hard time finding the ground early on and was concerned with structural damage due to the limit cables on the grear bulkhead. I know of guys that do not have the limit cables for that reason.) Lots of posts on the list address opinions and lots of the posts have opinions based on quite limited experience. If you find your gear squirrely, it will be due to misaligned wheels. This topic has been discussed in depth nearly every year or so. Toed in wheels will result in squirrely ground handling. Parallel tracking or slightly towed out will be fine. If you are landing well and then go squirrely, you might try checking wheel alignment. Just before we started the "Model, Engine" survey there was a long thread on tri vs. tw gear. With lots of discussion about equally divided between nose gear and tail wheel guys. The immediate implication to me was that lots of guys had opted to go nose wheel - lots of list traffic in favor. The survey showed that tail wheel is extremely predominant for those responding at about 10:1. Those numbers suggest that tail wheel is not too difficult to master by average pilots. I suspect that if we added spring vs. bungee to the survey, my guess would be that a majority of guys still fly with the tube gear with none complaining. Neither is inherently better than the other. You can find a mis-alligned spring that will be just as squirrely as a mis-aligned tube. That is why they sell the angled shims to correct for misallignment on the spring gear. I have heard of other negatives on the spring gear besides wt. They are shorter giving a more shallow angel of attack and quick off the ground is not as good as with the tube gear. There have been comments recently about taller tube gear for enhanced short field performance I hear that elsewhere also. In short it is all related to the mission of your airplane and personal preferences. No one's preference is any better than any other's preference - it is all just opinion. And this is just my opinion. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry" Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: need landing gear > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" > > How could I find out more about this gear conversion, I am currently > installing a Jabiru 2200 and would like to make all changes at once. I do > not like squirley airplanes and anything to make them better is always > welcome. Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Allen" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:41 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: need landing gear > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Allen >> >> I started flying with the Grove gear, wheels and >> brakes a week ago on a Kitfox IV Speedster with 912UL. >> The original landing gear, consisting of >> fabric-covered welded tubes suspended with bungees, >> lousy brakes, one piece wheels and square shouldered >> trailer tires, was a squirrly beast on takeoff and >> landing, always wanting to dart off to the side. >> After breaking a bungee on a bounced landing, I >> decided to change it. >> >> Now, it is all improved from the fuselage down, >> aluminum gear, real airplane wheels, excellent brakes >> and 6:00 x 6 airplane tires. It tracks straight >> taxiing (even with feet off the pedals), taking off, >> and landing. It is very stable. Land on one wheel >> and it will settle onto the other. Get blown crooked >> and a little rudder pressure brings it straight. It >> is one piece, aligned straight when made. It is not >> wobbly like a Cessna 140's steel gear. It is easier >> to get in and out since it is not in the way as the >> tube gear was. The Grove setup is a vast improvement. >> It tamed the little beast and I can go to tundra >> tires later if I want. I can't say whether it >> affected the speed but don't think so as it seems like >> it can still go pretty fast even without wheel pants. >> I haven't determined the weight difference yet, >> although we weighed the plane after installation. >> >> I have no reason to keep the steel gear any more. >> >> John Allen >> 209-223-5705 >> >> -->9/16/06 Kitfox-List message posted by: "GRPP" >> said >> i am thinking of upgrading to grove gear and would >> like any opinions on doing so. >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:08 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Jerry, The early Matco's when the passenger brakes were also installed used to lock up in the event pressure was applied to both sides simultaneously. To unlock, they had to be bled at the caliper. Don't know if this is the problem. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Poe" Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:47 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Poe" > > I am having problems with my MC-1 and MC-3 Matco's dragging, getting hot > and locking up. I cleaned and rebuilt them and after 10 hours the same > thing happened. Are the new Matco's any better? The machine work on the > insides were of poor quality when I rebuilt them. Jerry Poe > > _________________________________________________________________ > Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:22 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: need landing gear --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Lowell, You laid that out very well. And it was me that suggested that if I ever bent a tube gear that I would build a taller one for higher stance and possibly shorter take off . I am glad to hear that tube gear is safe from your viewpoint as well as mine. I think second to mis-aligned toe in that pilot proficiencies is lacking and causing some of this fear ? Dave .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: need landing gear > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Jerry, > > There is nothing inherently squirrely with the tube gear. I had both. > (For those wondering, I changed out because I was having a hard time > finding the ground early on and was concerned with structural damage due > to the limit cables on the grear bulkhead. I know of guys that do not > have the limit cables for that reason.) Lots of posts on the list address > opinions and lots of the posts have opinions based on quite limited > experience. > > If you find your gear squirrely, it will be due to misaligned wheels. > This topic has been discussed in depth nearly every year or so. Toed in > wheels will result in squirrely ground handling. Parallel tracking or > slightly towed out will be fine. If you are landing well and then go > squirrely, you might try checking wheel alignment. > > Just before we started the "Model, Engine" survey there was a long thread > on tri vs. tw gear. With lots of discussion about equally divided between > nose gear and tail wheel guys. The immediate implication to me was that > lots of guys had opted to go nose wheel - lots of list traffic in favor. > The survey showed that tail wheel is extremely predominant for those > responding at about 10:1. Those numbers suggest that tail wheel is not > too difficult to master by average pilots. > > I suspect that if we added spring vs. bungee to the survey, my guess would > be that a majority of guys still fly with the tube gear with none > complaining. Neither is inherently better than the other. You can find a > mis-alligned spring that will be just as squirrely as a mis-aligned tube. > That is why they sell the angled shims to correct for misallignment on the > spring gear. > > I have heard of other negatives on the spring gear besides wt. They are > shorter giving a more shallow angel of attack and quick off the ground is > not as good as with the tube gear. There have been comments recently > about taller tube gear for enhanced short field performance I hear that > elsewhere also. > > In short it is all related to the mission of your airplane and personal > preferences. No one's preference is any better than any other's > preference - it is all just opinion. And this is just my opinion. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 6:11 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: need landing gear > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" >> >> How could I find out more about this gear conversion, I am currently >> installing a Jabiru 2200 and would like to make all changes at once. I >> do not like squirley airplanes and anything to make them better is always >> welcome. Jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Allen" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:41 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: need landing gear >> >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Allen >>> >>> I started flying with the Grove gear, wheels and >>> brakes a week ago on a Kitfox IV Speedster with 912UL. >>> The original landing gear, consisting of >>> fabric-covered welded tubes suspended with bungees, >>> lousy brakes, one piece wheels and square shouldered >>> trailer tires, was a squirrly beast on takeoff and >>> landing, always wanting to dart off to the side. >>> After breaking a bungee on a bounced landing, I >>> decided to change it. >>> >>> Now, it is all improved from the fuselage down, >>> aluminum gear, real airplane wheels, excellent brakes >>> and 6:00 x 6 airplane tires. It tracks straight >>> taxiing (even with feet off the pedals), taking off, >>> and landing. It is very stable. Land on one wheel >>> and it will settle onto the other. Get blown crooked >>> and a little rudder pressure brings it straight. It >>> is one piece, aligned straight when made. It is not >>> wobbly like a Cessna 140's steel gear. It is easier >>> to get in and out since it is not in the way as the >>> tube gear was. The Grove setup is a vast improvement. >>> It tamed the little beast and I can go to tundra >>> tires later if I want. I can't say whether it >>> affected the speed but don't think so as it seems like >>> it can still go pretty fast even without wheel pants. >>> I haven't determined the weight difference yet, >>> although we weighed the plane after installation. >>> >>> I have no reason to keep the steel gear any more. >>> >>> John Allen >>> 209-223-5705 >>> >>> -->9/16/06 Kitfox-List message posted by: "GRPP" >>> said >>> i am thinking of upgrading to grove gear and would >>> like any opinions on doing so. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:10 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff From: "Ben-PA" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" What is your technique for short takeoff? Do you do anything different if on pavement or grass? Might as well ask for your short landing technique, too. Thanks! Ben -------- Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: http://www.frappr.com/kitfox You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of the Kitfox world. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62517#62517 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:04 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: San Diego Kitfox Fly-in Sat. Sept. 16th --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 09:40 PM 9/18/2006, you wrote: > wanted to get down to Brown Field on Saturday but a fuel leak on my > Kitfox had me grounded. Did anyone show up? Pete KF-IV 1050 N102KM LOL. We had a fly-in of one. Me. I was glad I went, though, as two prospective Kitfox pilots showed up and asked a lot of questions. I'm a member of Chapter 14 so next year I'll organize in an attempt to get more Kitfoxes to come. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I don't know who this question was addressed to, so I'll jump in with what I'm being taught. My instructor takes every opportunity to ask me "What is the objective of the shortfield takeoff?" and "What is the one-word answer to describe the method for making a shortfield takeoff?" (He is readying me for the upcoming checkride for my Sport Pilot Certificate) The answer that he expects to hear is "the objective is to accelerate as quickly as possible to Vx, lift off at Vx, clear the end-of-field obstruction, then resume the climb at Vy." The second answer is "acceleration" He queries me also on softfield techniques: "What is the objective for making a softfield takeoff?" and "What is the one-word answer to making a softfield takeoff?" The first answer he expects is: "Get the weight off the wheels as soon as possible" And the one-word answer is "lift" So to these ends, a shortfield takeoff requires holding the brakes, go to WOT, release brakes, get the tail up as quick as possible (given the conditions of the field), lift off at just before Vx speed, stay in ground effects until Vx has been achieved, clear the obstacle, then nose down slightly to Vy and continue climbout at Vy. The softfield technique requires keeping the tail as low as possible to provide angle of attack (and to keep the plane from nosing over due to friction), then lift-off at Vy. Pavement allows bringing up the tail quicker (there is no soft field to add drag to the mains, hence the tail can come up quicker allowing faster acceleration) than on grass, snow, mud, etc., where the friction against the mains requires the tail to be kept low. As to short landings, bring the plane in as slow as possible, touch down early, and get on the brakes, keeping the plane straight. This is what I THINK I've been taught. If I'm wrong, jump in and tell me, because I'm just learning these techniques and do not consider myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I'm really just "thinking out loud" and looking for input from others as to what I've learned. Lynn On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Ben-PA wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" > > What is your technique for short takeoff? Do you do anything different > if on pavement or grass? > Might as well ask for your short landing technique, too. > Thanks! > Ben > > -------- > Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: > http://www.frappr.com/kitfox > You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. > Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery > of the Kitfox world. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62517#62517 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:25 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff From: "Ben-PA" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" Thanks, Lynn, this is addressed to anyone who wants to respond. I read about some guys installing taller gear for short field ops and decided to ask about technique. I'm wondering if full flaps and tail down will get off pavement quickest. -------- Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: http://www.frappr.com/kitfox You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of the Kitfox world. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62537#62537 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:20 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Good post Lynn, Only thing you forgot was flaps. I bet the use of over 20 degrees will stir up the pot here. Depending on your model Kitfox -- the more the merrier on flaps if you know how to use them. 30 to 35 degrees will get you off the ground or water alot quicker than 20 degrees on my IV. I have heard about limiters ec but really seems only a issue with the model 1,2 and maybe 3 untill the flapleron differential started. For landing over 20 degrees really does not help much but agressive sideslipping does. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > I don't know who this question was addressed to, so I'll jump in with what > I'm being taught. My instructor takes every opportunity to ask me "What is > the objective of the shortfield takeoff?" and "What is the one-word > answer to describe the method for making a shortfield takeoff?" (He is > readying me for the upcoming checkride for my Sport Pilot Certificate) > The answer that he expects to hear is "the objective is to accelerate as > quickly as possible to Vx, lift off at Vx, clear the end-of-field > obstruction, then resume the climb at Vy." > The second answer is "acceleration" > He queries me also on softfield techniques: "What is the objective for > making a softfield takeoff?" and "What is the one-word answer to making > a softfield takeoff?" > The first answer he expects is: "Get the weight off the wheels as soon as > possible" And the one-word answer is "lift" > > So to these ends, a shortfield takeoff requires holding the brakes, go to > WOT, release brakes, get the tail up as quick as possible (given the > conditions of the field), lift off at just before Vx speed, stay in ground > effects until Vx has been achieved, clear the obstacle, then nose down > slightly to Vy and continue climbout at Vy. > > The softfield technique requires keeping the tail as low as possible to > provide angle of attack (and to keep the plane from nosing over due to > friction), then lift-off at Vy. > > Pavement allows bringing up the tail quicker (there is no soft field to > add drag to the mains, hence the tail can come up quicker allowing faster > acceleration) than on grass, snow, mud, etc., where the friction against > the mains requires the tail to be kept low. > > As to short landings, bring the plane in as slow as possible, touch down > early, and get on the brakes, keeping the plane straight. > > This is what I THINK I've been taught. If I'm wrong, jump in and tell me, > because I'm just learning these techniques and do not consider myself an > expert by any stretch of the imagination. I'm really just "thinking out > loud" and looking for input from others as to what I've learned. > > Lynn > > On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Ben-PA wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" >> >> What is your technique for short takeoff? Do you do anything different if >> on pavement or grass? >> Might as well ask for your short landing technique, too. >> Thanks! >> Ben >> >> -------- >> Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: >> http://www.frappr.com/kitfox >> You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be >> sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of >> the Kitfox world. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62517#62517 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:02 AM PST US From: "George Wells@adelphia.net" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CNBC Video segment and video Where do you go to view these attachments ? Pictures and videos Etc ?? thanks ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:05 AM PST US From: Lyle Persels Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 ULS Ignition installation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lyle Persels I'm replacing the Rotax 912UL in my KF-IV 1200 with a 912ULS. Several of the 912 listers have experienced wire breakage and other ignition problems on their 912UL thought to be related to vibration that is common at startup and shutdown or at lower rpm. Some have sought (and found) relief by relocating their ignition modules/coil assemblies from the engine to the firewall or engine mount on the firewall side of the donuts. I was one of these. I'm wondering if these problems have have followed the 912 into the 912S engines. Are 912S operators experiencing similar problems with the engine-mounted installations? I need to decide whether to leave the ignition unit on the engine or move it to a more vibration- isolated location. I'd appreciate thoughts and recommendations. New subject: I've also bought a set of King Fox (I think that's their name) 21X12-8 tires to install on my Matco wheels and brakes. They're great looking tires and John M says they've been well received in the field (pun?), but mine won't fit. The wide side of the tire contacts the rear fairing on my tube gear installation. Have others had this problem? Again, I'd appreciate thoughts and recommendations. Thanks, Lyle Persels ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Flaps...oops, I just busted my checkride. : ) I guess I could say that I was leaving the use of flaps up to the individual pilot, but the truth is I forgot to mention that I use 10 deg. for all takeoffs, short, soft, or short and soft. I haven't really taken the time to try no flaps or full (20 deg. in my case) flaps. I use full, 20 degrees for all landings so far. This seems to work for all the crosswind landings that I've made so far as well. Lynn On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Dave wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > > Good post Lynn, > > Only thing you forgot was flaps. > > I bet the use of over 20 degrees will stir up the pot here. > Depending on your model Kitfox -- the more the merrier on flaps if you > know how to use them. > > 30 to 35 degrees will get you off the ground or water alot quicker > than 20 degrees on my IV. > I have heard about limiters ec but really seems only a issue with the > model 1,2 and maybe 3 untill the flapleron differential started. > > For landing over 20 degrees really does not help much but agressive > sideslipping does. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:54 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson >> >> I don't know who this question was addressed to, so I'll jump in with >> what I'm being taught. My instructor takes every opportunity to ask >> me "What is the objective of the shortfield takeoff?" and "What >> is the one-word answer to describe the method for making a shortfield >> takeoff?" (He is readying me for the upcoming checkride for my >> Sport Pilot Certificate) >> The answer that he expects to hear is "the objective is to accelerate >> as quickly as possible to Vx, lift off at Vx, clear the end-of-field >> obstruction, then resume the climb at Vy." >> The second answer is "acceleration" >> He queries me also on softfield techniques: "What is the objective >> for making a softfield takeoff?" and "What is the one-word answer >> to making a softfield takeoff?" >> The first answer he expects is: "Get the weight off the wheels as >> soon as possible" And the one-word answer is "lift" >> >> So to these ends, a shortfield takeoff requires holding the brakes, >> go to WOT, release brakes, get the tail up as quick as possible >> (given the conditions of the field), lift off at just before Vx >> speed, stay in ground effects until Vx has been achieved, clear the >> obstacle, then nose down slightly to Vy and continue climbout at Vy. >> >> The softfield technique requires keeping the tail as low as possible >> to provide angle of attack (and to keep the plane from nosing over >> due to friction), then lift-off at Vy. >> >> Pavement allows bringing up the tail quicker (there is no soft field >> to add drag to the mains, hence the tail can come up quicker allowing >> faster acceleration) than on grass, snow, mud, etc., where the >> friction against the mains requires the tail to be kept low. >> >> As to short landings, bring the plane in as slow as possible, touch >> down early, and get on the brakes, keeping the plane straight. >> >> This is what I THINK I've been taught. If I'm wrong, jump in and tell >> me, because I'm just learning these techniques and do not consider >> myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I'm really just >> "thinking out loud" and looking for input from others as to what I've >> learned. >> >> Lynn >> >> On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Ben-PA wrote: >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" >>> >>> What is your technique for short takeoff? Do you do anything >>> different if on pavement or grass? >>> Might as well ask for your short landing technique, too. >>> Thanks! >>> Ben >>> >>> -------- >>> Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: >>> http://www.frappr.com/kitfox >>> You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their >>> planes. Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share >>> the scenery of the Kitfox world. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62517#62517 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:37 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Good answer dave.... used these techniques for years and taught the same way from a half dozen instructors... >From: Dave >Date: 2006/09/19 Tue AM 11:29:47 CDT >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > >Good post Lynn, > >Only thing you forgot was flaps. > >I bet the use of over 20 degrees will stir up the pot here. >Depending on your model Kitfox -- the more the merrier on flaps if you know >how to use them. > >30 to 35 degrees will get you off the ground or water alot quicker than 20 >degrees on my IV. >I have heard about limiters ec but really seems only a issue with the model >1,2 and maybe 3 untill the flapleron differential started. > >For landing over 20 degrees really does not help much but agressive >sideslipping does. > >Dave > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lynn Matteson" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:54 AM >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson >> >> I don't know who this question was addressed to, so I'll jump in with what >> I'm being taught. My instructor takes every opportunity to ask me "What is >> the objective of the shortfield takeoff?" and "What is the one-word >> answer to describe the method for making a shortfield takeoff?" (He is >> readying me for the upcoming checkride for my Sport Pilot Certificate) >> The answer that he expects to hear is "the objective is to accelerate as >> quickly as possible to Vx, lift off at Vx, clear the end-of-field >> obstruction, then resume the climb at Vy." >> The second answer is "acceleration" >> He queries me also on softfield techniques: "What is the objective for >> making a softfield takeoff?" and "What is the one-word answer to making >> a softfield takeoff?" >> The first answer he expects is: "Get the weight off the wheels as soon as >> possible" And the one-word answer is "lift" >> >> So to these ends, a shortfield takeoff requires holding the brakes, go to >> WOT, release brakes, get the tail up as quick as possible (given the >> conditions of the field), lift off at just before Vx speed, stay in ground >> effects until Vx has been achieved, clear the obstacle, then nose down >> slightly to Vy and continue climbout at Vy. >> >> The softfield technique requires keeping the tail as low as possible to >> provide angle of attack (and to keep the plane from nosing over due to >> friction), then lift-off at Vy. >> >> Pavement allows bringing up the tail quicker (there is no soft field to >> add drag to the mains, hence the tail can come up quicker allowing faster >> acceleration) than on grass, snow, mud, etc., where the friction against >> the mains requires the tail to be kept low. >> >> As to short landings, bring the plane in as slow as possible, touch down >> early, and get on the brakes, keeping the plane straight. >> >> This is what I THINK I've been taught. If I'm wrong, jump in and tell me, >> because I'm just learning these techniques and do not consider myself an >> expert by any stretch of the imagination. I'm really just "thinking out >> loud" and looking for input from others as to what I've learned. >> >> Lynn >> >> On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Ben-PA wrote: >> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" >>> >>> What is your technique for short takeoff? Do you do anything different if >>> on pavement or grass? >>> Might as well ask for your short landing technique, too. >>> Thanks! >>> Ben >>> >>> -------- >>> Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: >>> http://www.frappr.com/kitfox >>> You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be >>> sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of >>> the Kitfox world. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62517#62517 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:49 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Airfoils on empanage I was in the aviation section of Walmart earlier this week and again saw the rolls of gap sealing tape (clear contact paper). One roll will do 10 Kitfoxes for under a $1 per plane. It is what I used 10 years ago and it is still in place. John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- From: kurt schrader > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > Hey Dan, > > ACS has some great yellow foam something like SS used > for gap seals, but a little lighter. I think I used > 2" thick and doubled where needed. A 4' x 4' piece. > > I just shaped the foam in as a full leading edge piece > to the widest part, with 3 ribs - top, bottom and > middle - back from there. The top and bottom plywood > ribs were the sanding forms to shape to. Looks almost > solid. A big hotwire would have been easier.... > > You can epoxy some very light fiberglass over the > foam, but I just covered with fabric and left it that > way. It will probably destroy the foam when I need to > recover later though. The polybrush probably > penetrated the surface of the foam for a bit and I > expect it will rip out with the fabric in another 25 > years. Always hangared. :-) > > Not a hard job to redo the foam though. Next time I > will use the epoxy and light glass over it. The model > hobby shops have the best light weight glass I found. > > I weighed the parts, but forgot by now how much it > added. I seem to remember 6 oz max without the > fiberglass. You can hollow out the foam, careful to > leave a web, and offset the weight of the glass a > little. My tail still came in light and I am nose > heavy, so it wouldn't have been a problem to glass it. > > If you haven't covered the H stab, now is the time to > put in a good gap seal. Just add a piece of foam to > the rear of the stab, front of the elevator, or both, > your choice, and leave enough room for the fabric. > Shape to allow full control movement and glass on. > > I didn't do it and now have to use tape. The foam is > just a little more aerodynamic. > > Kurt S. > > --- Dan Billingsley wrote: > > > Kurt, I just picked up this thread so forgive if > > redundancy occurs...I am about to put ribs in my > > vertical stab and wondered what kind of foam did you > > use and how thick? did you wrap them w/ anything? > > Thanks, > > Dan > > __________________________________________________ > > > >
I was in the aviation section of Walmart earlier this week and again saw the rolls of gap sealing tape (clear contact paper). One roll will do 10 Kitfoxes for under a $1 per plane.  It is what I used 10 years ago and it is still in place.
 
John Kerr
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>

> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>
> Hey Dan,
>
> ACS has some great yellow foam something like SS used
> for gap seals, but a little lighter. I think I used
> 2" thick and doubled where needed. A 4' x 4' piece.
>
> I just shaped the foam in as a full leading edge piece
> to the widest part, with 3 ribs - top, bottom and
> middle - back from there. The top and bottom plywood
> ribs were the sanding forms to shape to. Looks almost
> solid. A big hotwire would have been easier....
>
> You can epoxy some very light fiberglass over the
> foam, but I just covered with fabric and left it that
> way. It will probably dest roy th e foam when I need to
> recover later though. The polybrush probably
> penetrated the surface of the foam for a bit and I
> expect it will rip out with the fabric in another 25
> years. Always hangared. :-)
>
> Not a hard job to redo the foam though. Next time I
> will use the epoxy and light glass over it. The model
> hobby shops have the best light weight glass I found.
>
> I weighed the parts, but forgot by now how much it
> added. I seem to remember 6 oz max without the
> fiberglass. You can hollow out the foam, careful to
> leave a web, and offset the weight of the glass a
> little. My tail still came in light and I am nose
> heavy, so it wouldn't have been a problem to glass it.
>
> If you haven't covered the H stab, now is the time to
> put in a good gap seal. Just add a piece of foam to
> the rear of the stab, front of the elevator, or b oth, < h & >
________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson The one other thing that my instructor has taught me is the softfield landing, and that one is a little harder for me to visualize. He says to bring the plane in as slow as possible, let the tail touch first, then add a little power to drag the plane along with the mains off the ground, then letting it settle in with a reduction in power. I've only practiced a couple of these and it was tricky, but it worked. It does take a little more runway to do this one. It was explained that this is working with the "region of reverse command", or "the back side of the power curve", which I'm still trying to get squared away in my mind. It may have been this maneuver that caused the strain and subsequent breaking of my tailwheel spring. : ) Lynn ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:01 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 ULS Ignition installation From: "dcsfoto" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" I have the old ignition installed behind firewall and been told by two Rotax service centers that off eng mounting is best ,they see almost no problems with the old system. The black boxes now cost $900.00 +. Just mounted my new tires, they fit fine.John advised me that Matco wheels may need a 1" spacer between wheel haves.I have ATV wheels an they work fine. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62558#62558 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:27 AM PST US From: "HMDOUD" Subject: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor Hi Listers.. I have a Kitfox model, with a poly header tank. I want to put a low level float valve in the top of the tank. Aircraft Spruce # 6905-400. I have an aluminum threaded collar, that the small float valve will screw into. Before drilling a hole in the tank, I want to make certain that I can glue the aluminum collar onto the poly tank. It was suggested, by a lister, to use a 2 part polysulfide adhesive. I'm aware that hardly anything will stick to polypropylene, and have been thinking about ....Hysol?.....Epoxy?......Polyurethane glue?....Hot glue gun sticks?.......Whatever the adhesive, it would have to stick to poly and be gasoline safe..... Is there anyone out there who has had and solved my problem? Appreciate any feed-back available. Herb ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:02 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 11:33 AM 9/19/2006, you wrote: >Is there anyone out there who has had and solved my problem? I can only say that my 2-part polysulfide installation was successful. No leaks! YEA! Unfortunately, the polysulfide doesn't cure hard, like epoxy, so if you use it you will have to be careful to restrain the aluminum collar when you install the sensor. (I think this will be the case for any installation into polyethylene.) Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:41 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" You'll likely never get it to seal Herb. Virtually nothing will stick to those tanks. Your best bet would be to bite the bullet and go with an aluminum tank. Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "HMDOUD" Subject: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor >Hi Listers.. > >I have a Kitfox model, with a poly header tank. I want to put a low >level float valve in the top of the tank. Aircraft Spruce # 6905-400. >I have an aluminum threaded collar, that the small float valve will >screw into. > >Before drilling a hole in the tank, I want to make certain that I can >glue the aluminum collar onto the poly tank. It was suggested, by a >lister, to use a 2 part polysulfide adhesive. I'm aware that hardly >anything will stick to polypropylene, and have been thinking about >....Hysol?.....Epoxy?......Polyurethane glue?....Hot glue gun >sticks?.......Whatever the adhesive, it would have to stick to poly and >be gasoline safe..... Is there anyone out there who has had and solved >my problem? > >Appreciate any feed-back available. > >Herb > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:11 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Insuring your Kitfox From: "Chris In Madison" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" Hello all, When it comes to insuring an aircraft of this type, are you finding the rates are reasonable? I suspect that insurance for the Kitfox, Highlander, Rans, and similar size/weight aircraft are about the same, but I'm only speculating since I don't know any of their safety records or other insurance criteria. For those of you who own/have owned all-metal aircraft, how do rates compare between them and tube-and-fabric craft, tri-gear or tailwheel? Do you have hull insurance, or do you carry only liability and eat the cost of any repairs due to accident, weather, etc.? I'm not flying at the moment but plan to get my PPL next Spring/Summer. But insurance costs for the planes I really love have me worried the most. I'd like to find a class of aircraft that I will love to fly that won't break me. Many thanks for all of your wisdom and insight :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62570#62570 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:53 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Insuring your Kitfox From: "Ben-PA" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" Chris, you will find that the Kitfox is one of the few conventional gear experimentals that the insurance companies will risk writing on student pilots. Ben -------- Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: http://www.frappr.com/kitfox You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of the Kitfox world. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62571#62571 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:35 PM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Do like the factory did and drill and tap, install using sealers/ John Oakley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flier Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" You'll likely never get it to seal Herb. Virtually nothing will stick to those tanks. Your best bet would be to bite the bullet and go with an aluminum tank. Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "HMDOUD" Subject: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor >Hi Listers.. > >I have a Kitfox model, with a poly header tank. I want to put a low >level float valve in the top of the tank. Aircraft Spruce # 6905-400. >I have an aluminum threaded collar, that the small float valve will >screw into. > >Before drilling a hole in the tank, I want to make certain that I can >glue the aluminum collar onto the poly tank. It was suggested, by a >lister, to use a 2 part polysulfide adhesive. I'm aware that hardly >anything will stick to polypropylene, and have been thinking about >....Hysol?.....Epoxy?......Polyurethane glue?....Hot glue gun >sticks?.......Whatever the adhesive, it would have to stick to poly and >be gasoline safe..... Is there anyone out there who has had and solved >my problem? > >Appreciate any feed-back available. > >Herb > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:11 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" I've recently happened upon some mid-70s vintage FAA-GA Videos that some of you may enjoy. Short/soft field ops (current topic) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5153377456393829236 Others links should show along side of the video above or can be found at Google Video - a search for 'FAA training' will bring up most. Other videos include Float Flying, Mountain Flying, Icing, Flying basics and several others, some better than others, I' guess that all would be entertaining to most listers. I've found myself with some time on my hands due to a table saw incident. I still have all ten digits though my projects are stalled while my right index finger heals. Richard - Now preaching safety in all thing including flight. - Coffee and full alert before mags or saw are switched on! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62575#62575 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:18 PM PST US From: Nick Scholtes Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes Hi KitFoxers! I just wanted to thank you for your input to my question about how practical it is to fold a KitFox each time you fly it. Here's what I heard: -- The guys who do it regularly say it's practical, and not too painful. -- There were multiple suggestions about how to make it less painful (much thanks!) -- Some folks who haven't done it regularly thought it was or might be not practical. Overall, it sounds practical and painless enough to me. One thought I had regarding draining fuel when folding the wings: Most of the fuel caps I've seen in pictures (remember, I haven't seen or flown a KitFox yet!) have a curved vent tube coming from them, and I assume this is where the fuel leaks out when folding the wings. So, why not, when folding, slip a piece of fuel hose over this vent, and attach the other end of this length of hose to the highest point of the fuselage (probably the spot where the pin is removed to fold the wings)? This is basically creating a "stand-pipe" for the fuel. Yes, it will flow up the hose, but it won't leak out. It will remove the requirement to drain the tanks (except for the weight issue that many folks pointed out). Anyway, just a thought from somebody who doesn't know what he's talking about! So, now that you've convinced me that it's practical to fold the wings, and you've also convinced me that they are fun to fly, I want to buy one! Two more questions: -- Who's got one for sale? Email me off-list with what you've got. -- Who can I get to give me a ride? I live near Chicago, and I'm willing to travel. Thanks again for all the help! Nick Scholtes ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:40 PM PST US From: Gary Olson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Insuring your Kitfox Chris, Check the archives as well, we had some good conversation about this very topic about a month ago or so. Gary Chris In Madison wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" Hello all, When it comes to insuring an aircraft of this type, are you finding the rates are reasonable? I suspect that insurance for the Kitfox, Highlander, Rans, and similar size/weight aircraft are about the same, but I'm only speculating since I don't know any of their safety records or other insurance criteria. For those of you who own/have owned all-metal aircraft, how do rates compare between them and tube-and-fabric craft, tri-gear or tailwheel? Do you have hull insurance, or do you carry only liability and eat the cost of any repairs due to accident, weather, etc.? I'm not flying at the moment but plan to get my PPL next Spring/Summer. But insurance costs for the planes I really love have me worried the most. I'd like to find a class of aircraft that I will love to fly that won't break me. Many thanks for all of your wisdom and insight :-) Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62570#62570 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:12 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CNBC Video segment and video --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" George, In Short, CNBC came to town last month and filmed a short segment on a guy that commutes from Cameron Park to Palo Alto to work. They came up with a very positive little piece, very friendly to aviation that was broadcast on CNBC, MSNBC, and many local NBC afiliates over the course of several weeks. She used some video that I had taken from the Kitfox in her feature. The producer sent me a copy of the two versions of her production and I burned that onto a DVD with the rest of the video she didn't use. The images referred to were some stills I captured from the video that I posted as attachments to the e-mail I sent to the list so anyone interested would get a feel of what was in the video. I would like $6 for the video and that would include postage both ways. I am enclosing a self addressed envelope for the $6 to make it easy. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Wells@adelphia.net" Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CNBC Video segment and video Where do you go to view these attachments ? Pictures and videos Etc ?? thanks ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I used Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Sealant Liquid 3H for all my header tank sealing. Wipe on both areas, let set for awhile, and assemble. So far, so good. Lynn On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 02:33 PM, HMDOUD wrote: > Hi Listers.. > > I have a Kitfox model, with a poly header tank. I want to put a low > level float valve in the top of the tank. Aircraft Spruce # > 6905-400. I have an aluminum threaded collar, that the small float > valve will screw into. > > Before drilling a hole in the tank, I want to make certain that I can > glue the aluminum collar onto the poly tank. It was suggested, by a > lister, to use a 2 part polysulfide adhesive. I'm aware that hardly > anything will stick to polypropylene,and have been thinking > about....Hysol?.....Epoxy?......Polyurethane glue?....Hot glue gun > sticks?.......Whatever the adhesive, it would have to stick topoly > and be gasoline safe.....Is there anyone out there who has had and > solved my problem? > > Appreciate any feed-back available. > > Herb > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:00 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Model V Baggage From: "dcsfoto" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" looking for a few photos of the baggage area in a model V Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62586#62586 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Ouch! Good thing it wasn't your horn-honking finger, Richard...seriously, take care of yourself. I hope to get down your way one of these days when I get Certified as a SP. Lynn On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 04:05 PM, Richard Rabbers wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" > > > I've recently happened upon some mid-70s vintage FAA-GA Videos that > some of you may enjoy. > > > Short/soft field ops (current topic) > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5153377456393829236 > > Others links should show along side of the video above or can be found > at Google Video - a search for 'FAA training' will bring up most. > Other videos include Float Flying, Mountain Flying, Icing, Flying > basics and several others, some better than others, I' guess that all > would be entertaining to > most listers. > > I've found myself with some time on my hands due to a table saw > incident. I still have all ten digits though my projects are stalled > while my right index finger heals. > > Richard > - Now preaching safety in all thing including flight. > - Coffee and full alert before mags or saw are switched on! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62575#62575 > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:01 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor Yep, that's what I did: drilled the poly tank and carefully screwed a brass fitting into the hole. It self-tapped. I used a fuel proof thread sealer and, contrary to Ted's experience (knock wood), eventually it quit leaking. I did have to tighten the fitting a few times, as much as I dared while trying not to strip the "threads". Also, I drain my tanks after each flight, which may be contributing to my good fortune so far. Good luck Herb. Sometimes it seems like there's as much art to this as science. John Oakley wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Do like the factory did and drill and tap, install using sealers/ John Oakley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flier Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" You'll likely never get it to seal Herb. Virtually nothing will stick to those tanks. Your best bet would be to bite the bullet and go with an aluminum tank. Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "HMDOUD" Subject: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor >Hi Listers.. > >I have a Kitfox model, with a poly header tank. I want to put a low >level float valve in the top of the tank. Aircraft Spruce # 6905-400. >I have an aluminum threaded collar, that the small float valve will >screw into. > >Before drilling a hole in the tank, I want to make certain that I can >glue the aluminum collar onto the poly tank. It was suggested, by a >lister, to use a 2 part polysulfide adhesive. I'm aware that hardly >anything will stick to polypropylene, and have been thinking about >....Hysol?.....Epoxy?......Polyurethane glue?....Hot glue gun >sticks?.......Whatever the adhesive, it would have to stick to poly and >be gasoline safe..... Is there anyone out there who has had and solved >my problem? > >Appreciate any feed-back available. > >Herb > > Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson This would seem like a workable idea, but it puts the gasket under the cap as the next place to leak, and that's a real possibility. You could also attach the hose to the other cap vent, but the weak links are the cap gaskets again. Lynn On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 04:30 PM, Nick Scholtes wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes > > One thought I had regarding draining fuel when folding the wings: > Most of the fuel caps I've seen in pictures (remember, I haven't seen > or flown a KitFox yet!) have a curved vent tube coming from them, and > I assume this is where the fuel leaks out when folding the wings. So, > why not, when folding, slip a piece of fuel hose over this vent, and > attach the other end of this length of hose to the highest point of > the fuselage (probably the spot where the pin is removed to fold the > wings)? This is basically creating a "stand-pipe" for the fuel. Yes, > it will flow up the hose, but it won't leak out. It will remove the > requirement to drain the tanks (except for the weight issue that many > folks pointed out). Anyway, just a thought from somebody who doesn't > know what he's talking about! > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:51 PM PST US From: kitfoxjunky Subject: Kitfox-List: Fox Video Footage Google video is pretty cool. I put a few short clips up after a weekend of flying my Kitfox and playing with my new digital camera. The one of the landing shows the runway and the airspeed indicator in the same shot..which is sort of interesting if you ever wondered what your speeds are on approach, over the fence and touchdown. Interesting how the 30 frames/sec frame rate makes the prop look like it is spinning backwards. Landing.... http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-1021959723641298331 Taxiing on the water http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-7216954109326802719 Touring the river and spying on the neighbors... http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=1279429939209084487 Gary Walsh KF IV Anphib 912S C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox do not archive ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:55 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: Added to the database --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" These I have added. I hope this was not duplicated from previous update notices. I have been having computer challenges lately. Ted Palamarek Dan Billingsley Francisco J Ocampo Harper L (Jake) Jacoby Thanks for the edit Jerry Bateman Mikd Gibbs - Corrected. Now you know my secret. Data entry is enjoyable to me, but I need a pretty good proof reader After returning from Aus. yesterday, my wife, Kay, looked at the video and promptly pointed out spelling and identification errors. Spent the rest of the day updating the video - I think it is OK now. ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:27 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Sep 19, 2006, at 10:05 PM, Richard Rabbers wrote: > Short/soft field ops (current topic) > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5153377456393829236 Cool, but this one is the most hairy landing I've ever seen! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7047249536078175239 Wow! Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:14 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" > . I hope to get down your way > one of these days when I get Certified as a SP. > Lynn, Congratulations on your 'almost' pilpt status. Take care in all things. Honk when you fly over West Main Street near the port. I'll be watching for you. Richard - do not archive -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62598#62598 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:27 PM PST US From: "Paul" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul" I have my passenger brakes removed, however matco has a simple fix for this problem, when talked to them at Oshkosh. Paul N102DG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Jerry, > > The early Matco's when the passenger brakes were also installed used to > lock up in the event pressure was applied to both sides simultaneously. > To unlock, they had to be bled at the caliper. Don't know if this is the > problem. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Poe" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:47 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry Poe" >> >> >> I am having problems with my MC-1 and MC-3 Matco's dragging, getting hot >> and locking up. I cleaned and rebuilt them and after 10 hours the same >> thing happened. Are the new Matco's any better? The machine work on the >> insides were of poor quality when I rebuilt them. Jerry Poe >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams >> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 03:29:58 PM PST US From: Ben Burbridge Subject: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ben Burbridge One gallon of Evans Coolant is WAY more than you need for a 912. Definitely get the Evans Flush to clean the anit-freeze out of the system. That said, I have been running way too hot ever since I put the Evans in (no other changes) and I am seriously considering switching back to 50-50. Has anybody else had this problem? Ben, Kitfox 3/4, 912UL in Florida ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:01 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Ben, Thanks for the update. Based on your post, I think I 'll pass on the Evans. My typical temps are in the 180-200 degree range and hot spots seem a stretch to me. I could use the extra temps in the winter, but not enough to go through the trouble of the rinse etc. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Burbridge" Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ben Burbridge > > One gallon of Evans Coolant is WAY more than you need for a 912. > Definitely get the Evans Flush to clean the anit-freeze out of the system. > That said, I have been running way too hot ever since I put the Evans in > (no other changes) and I am seriously considering switching back to 50-50. > Has anybody else had this problem? > Ben, Kitfox 3/4, 912UL in Florida > > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:54 PM PST US From: Malcolmbru@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: anyone using Matco MC-4 and MC-5 brakes? my breaks dont say matco byt look just like brakes them anu idea what kind they are ? ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:55 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" I've run Evans here in Houston for two years and really like it. No noticable difference in cooling. Before Evans I did run 100% antifreeze as I originally had boiling problems (hot spots) when running any water so maybe that's why I didn't see a temp increase. My coolant temps have always run fine. I also run Evans in my Sube powered Nieuport 11. It's good stuff. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:02 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Ben, Thanks for the update. Based on your post, I think I 'll pass on the Evans. My typical temps are in the 180-200 degree range and hot spots seem a stretch to me. I could use the extra temps in the winter, but not enough to go through the trouble of the rinse etc. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Burbridge" Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ben Burbridge > > One gallon of Evans Coolant is WAY more than you need for a 912. > Definitely get the Evans Flush to clean the anit-freeze out of the system. > That said, I have been running way too hot ever since I put the Evans in > (no other changes) and I am seriously considering switching back to 50-50. > Has anybody else had this problem? > Ben, Kitfox 3/4, 912UL in Florida > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:04 PM PST US From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor Being in construction, I have discovered that many plastics can be glued successfully with ABS pipe cement or PVC pipe cement that is used in the plumbing industry. It is not sold in the glue aisle of the hardware store along with all the epoxys that are supposed to work, I suspect because it is used in applications not expected to be used by the ordinary homeowner. Try a spot first and see if it cuts into the plastic, then you will know if it will work. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: HMDOUD To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Installing a low fuel level sensor Hi Listers.. I have a Kitfox model, with a poly header tank. I want to put a low level float valve in the top of the tank. Aircraft Spruce # 6905-400. I have an aluminum threaded collar, that the small float valve will screw into. Before drilling a hole in the tank, I want to make certain that I can glue the aluminum collar onto the poly tank. It was suggested, by a lister, to use a 2 part polysulfide adhesive. I'm aware that hardly anything will stick to polypropylene, and have been thinking about ....Hysol?.....Epoxy?......Polyurethane glue?....Hot glue gun sticks?.......Whatever the adhesive, it would have to stick to poly and be gasoline safe..... Is there anyone out there who has had and solved my problem? Appreciate any feed-back available. Herb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 9/19/2006 ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:25 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Is it practical to fold wings each flight? (Michel) Michel wrote: I might, one day, be in need to a temporary situation where I'll need to foil the wings. And your mentioning of a big wheel makes me think more ... in direction of a bicycle wheel. Why not? An old bicycle, cut the frame and keep the front wheel and the fork. Hum, sounds good. What do you think? Hi Michel. The trouble is when you winch the tail end up the track in the dolly, or if you build a kind of lever to lift the tail end. The weight shift will be great when the wings are folded, so you will need stability with the dolly. That is why I was thinking of big wheels, not very much weight but top heavy. So you would want good spread to the wheel base and a good longitudinal stability somehow, as well as a steering function. Also because of the weight, the wheels should be large enough to travel smoothly over uneven ground without sharp stops. As we know, with the tailwheel on the ground, the kitfox is a pleasure to move around with the wings outstretched but fold em and it is about impossible if you don't have a track system. Of course, the idea is to get the tail high before the fold. So' how do you say it...lift and fold? Eric. ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:43 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" I would urge all 912 drivers (especially 912S drivers) to change to Evans. I had a boil over with my 912S last Christmas day at about 34 F outside. This after flying all summer with no problems! As I understand it, it is sort of a random occurance. It may never happen to you, or it may pop up any time. All it takes is one steam bubble which impedes the flow of coolant in that circuit (one of four on the 912) and insulates the metal so it just gets hotter. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:02 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Ben, Thanks for the update. Based on your post, I think I 'll pass on the Evans. My typical temps are in the 180-200 degree range and hot spots seem a stretch to me. I could use the extra temps in the winter, but not enough to go through the trouble of the rinse etc. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Burbridge" Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Evans Coolant > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ben Burbridge > > One gallon of Evans Coolant is WAY more than you need for a 912. > Definitely get the Evans Flush to clean the anit-freeze out of the system. > That said, I have been running way too hot ever since I put the Evans in > (no other changes) and I am seriously considering switching back to 50-50. > Has anybody else had this problem? > Ben, Kitfox 3/4, 912UL in Florida > > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:51 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Evans Coolant From: "Ben-PA" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" benburb(at)comcast.net wrote: > One gallon of Evans Coolant is WAY more than you need for a 912. > I have been running way too hot ever since I put > the Evans in (no other changes) and I am seriously considering > switching back to 50-50. Has anybody else had this problem? > Ben, Kitfox 3/4, 912UL in Florida Hi Ben, I was looking at the Evans site and found this in the propaganda section: Evans NPG Coolant will transfer 27.5% more heat energy than water in your race engine, due to NPG's molar heat of vaporization and high saturation temperature. Could it be you are seeing higher coolant temperatures because Evans is pulling more heat from your engine? Another Ben (from PA) -------- Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: http://www.frappr.com/kitfox You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of the Kitfox world. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62642#62642 ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:43 PM PST US From: Malcolmbru@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff DAVE I have a KF2 what is flaperon differential? how do I know if I have it? my 2 was finished in 2000 michigan kit foxer ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:55 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Insuring your Kitfox --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 12:24 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote: >When it comes to insuring an aircraft of this type, are you finding the >rates are reasonable? ~$760/yr. for $1M / $100k from AIG. No hull. This for a 250hr TT, 20hr tailwheel, 65hr complex pilot. I expect it will drop to less than $600 next year. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:55 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 03:15 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote: >Cool, but this one is the most hairy landing I've ever seen! Well. That sets a new standard for me! I guess I'd better get out and practice more. Gonna have to change the 5 x 5 tires, though. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:55 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 01:05 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote: >I still have all ten digits though my projects are stalled while my right >index finger heals. You mention only ten digits. From your name I would have guessed 21. It must have been pretty serious. ;-) Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:44 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fox Video Footage From: "jimcarriere" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimcarriere" Gary, what part of the Grand is that? I spent several formative years in West Brant. Thanks Jim in NW FL Series 7 in progress Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62661#62661 ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:08 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Great short landing Michel. Definetly adventure seeker stuff. --------------- This one is quite different, a very bad day at the airport. The pilot should have stayed home and cut wood! http://airlinepilotcentral.com/web_video/now_showing/citation_runway_overshoot_20060904136.html do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62666#62666 ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff DAVE From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Apply the flaperons to one side or the other and see how much one side goes up versus the other side going down. Differential means that one side moves more or less than the other. In the Kitfox...as with most planes that I know of...the up-going aileron/flaperon moves further than the down-going one. This is so that the adverse yaw is reduced. If both flaperons moved the same amount, the nose of the plane would move opposite to the direction of the intended bank, and you would have a BUNCH of adverse yaw. We still have some in the Kitfox's, but I believe in the model IV's they reduced the adverse yaw a significant amount with flaperon differential. Lynn On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 09:45 PM, Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote: > I have a KF2 what is flaperon differential? how do I know if I have > it? my 2 was finished in 2000 michigan kit foxer > > ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:23 PM PST US From: "wingsdown" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Evans Coolant --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingsdown" Great product, you must have other problems. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben-PA Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Evans Coolant --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" benburb(at)comcast.net wrote: > One gallon of Evans Coolant is WAY more than you need for a 912. > I have been running way too hot ever since I put > the Evans in (no other changes) and I am seriously considering > switching back to 50-50. Has anybody else had this problem? > Ben, Kitfox 3/4, 912UL in Florida Hi Ben, I was looking at the Evans site and found this in the propaganda section: Evans NPG Coolant will transfer 27.5% more heat energy than water in your race engine, due to NPG's molar heat of vaporization and high saturation temperature. Could it be you are seeing higher coolant temperatures because Evans is pulling more heat from your engine? Another Ben (from PA) -------- Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: http://www.frappr.com/kitfox You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of the Kitfox world. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62642#62642 ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:35 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Takeoff DAVE From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" I believe that differential flaperon travel was intruduced with the model IV. Various tweaks larger rudder, longer fuse.. provided more effective directional control, but I was told that more than 'normal' rudder was needed to overcome adverse yaw on my model I. The plane would just fly yawed, until correction was applied. Malcolm. How does your model II respond? -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62678#62678 ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:18 PM PST US From: "Richard D'Archangel" Subject: Kitfox-List: metal bushings in the poly header tank I never liked using metal bushings in the poly header tank but, since I didn't have the option of an aluminum tank, finally came upon this solution. I used polyeurathane glue (also known at gorilla glue) to set the bushings in the tank. This glue is water activated and expands when it cures. I have flown the plane over 100 hrs in the last 2 years and have not had any leaks. I don't know of anyone else who has tried this, but if anyone has, or does, I'd like to hear how it worked for them. Dick > ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:22 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short Takeoff --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Lynn: Sounds to me like your instructor is doing a good job and you are learning the lesson. Jose --- Lynn Matteson wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > > I don't know who this question was addressed to, so > I'll jump in with > what I'm being taught. My instructor takes every > opportunity to ask me > "What is the objective of the shortfield takeoff?" > and "What is the > one-word answer to describe the method for making a > shortfield > takeoff?" (He is readying me for the upcoming > checkride for my Sport > Pilot Certificate) > The answer that he expects to hear is "the objective > is to accelerate > as quickly as possible to Vx, lift off at Vx, clear > the end-of-field > obstruction, then resume the climb at Vy." > The second answer is "acceleration" > He queries me also on softfield techniques: "What > is the objective > for making a softfield takeoff?" and "What is the > one-word answer to > making a softfield takeoff?" > The first answer he expects is: "Get the weight off > the wheels as soon > as possible" And the one-word answer is "lift" > > So to these ends, a shortfield takeoff requires > holding the brakes, go > to WOT, release brakes, get the tail up as quick as > possible (given the > conditions of the field), lift off at just before Vx > speed, stay in > ground effects until Vx has been achieved, clear the > obstacle, then > nose down slightly to Vy and continue climbout at > Vy. > > The softfield technique requires keeping the tail as > low as possible to > provide angle of attack (and to keep the plane from > nosing over due to > friction), then lift-off at Vy. > > Pavement allows bringing up the tail quicker (there > is no soft field to > add drag to the mains, hence the tail can come up > quicker allowing > faster acceleration) than on grass, snow, mud, etc., > where the friction > against the mains requires the tail to be kept low. > > As to short landings, bring the plane in as slow as > possible, touch > down early, and get on the brakes, keeping the plane > straight. > > This is what I THINK I've been taught. If I'm wrong, > jump in and tell > me, because I'm just learning these techniques and > do not consider > myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination. > I'm really just > "thinking out loud" and looking for input from > others as to what I've > learned. > > Lynn > > On Tuesday, September 19, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Ben-PA > wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben-PA" > > > > > What is your technique for short takeoff? Do you > do anything different > > if on pavement or grass? > > Might as well ask for your short landing > technique, too. > > Thanks! > > Ben > > > > -------- > > Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: > > http://www.frappr.com/kitfox > > You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and > pictures of their planes. > > Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, > or share the scenery > > of the Kitfox world. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62517#62517 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:12 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel dolly question From: "parahawk" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "parahawk" There was mention on using a dolly to bring the tail level with the wings for folding to avoid the swing back and removal of fuel. Does anybody have a picture or drawing of such a dolly ?? Thanks Al -------- Flying is the highest form of life on earth. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62692#62692