---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/01/06: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Re: Kitfox 5 1400 Gross Weight (Jim Crowder) 2. 12:49 AM - Re: Off topic Beothuck People (Michel Verheughe) 3. 02:03 AM - Re: Off topic Beothuck PeopleOff topic Beothuck People (Michael Gibbs) 4. 07:45 AM - Re: Undercarriage - Bungee nico press (Richard D'Archangel) 5. 07:52 AM - Re: Off topic Beothuck People (Guy Buchanan) 6. 08:32 AM - Re: Graphics body wrap! (David C. Watterson) 7. 08:35 AM - Re: Student InsuranceStudent InsuranceStudent InsuranceStudent I (David C. Watterson) 8. 09:52 AM - Re: Kitfox 5 1400 Gross Weight (A Smith) 9. 11:18 AM - Re: Gnomes (Richard Rabbers) 10. 02:05 PM - Two Series 7 Questions (darinh) 11. 02:25 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (jdmcbean) 12. 04:14 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (PWilson) 13. 04:35 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (Guy Buchanan) 14. 04:42 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (Guy Buchanan) 15. 04:46 PM - Re: Graphics body wrap! (Guy Buchanan) 16. 05:41 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (darinh) 17. 06:21 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (Bob Unternaehrer) 18. 06:22 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (Bob Unternaehrer) 19. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Two Series 7 Questions (Noel Loveys) 20. 06:49 PM - VW redrive results (ron schick) 21. 06:56 PM - Re: VW redrive results (Dave) 22. 07:01 PM - Re: VW redrive results (Dave) 23. 07:06 PM - Guy -- 582 numbers (Dave) 24. 07:10 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (Noel Loveys) 25. 08:07 PM - Re: Re: Two Series 7 Questions "lead scavenging" to Noel (Ceashman@aol.com) 26. 08:30 PM - Re: VW redrive results (ron schick) 27. 08:30 PM - Re: VW redrive results (ron schick) 28. 09:58 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Guy Buchanan) 29. 10:02 PM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions (Noel Loveys) 30. 10:23 PM - flight checklist (dwight purdy) 31. 11:31 PM - Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 32. 11:34 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:32 AM PST US From: Jim Crowder Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 1400 Gross Weight Oops. I should have said "to upgrade my plane to 1550lbs. Jim Crowder At 12:25 AM 10/1/2006, you wrote: >At the suggestion of Skystar to upgrade my plant to 1450, I >purchased the heavier tubes, the stronger bolts, and added a plywood >gusset to the triangle tubing of the lower fuselage where it accepts >the load from the wings. At the time they thought that would do it. > >Jim Crowder > >At 09:25 AM 9/30/2006, you wrote: >>There is a kit manufacture date you can check. I recieved mine in >>96 and it is a 1400 lb. not to long after that they switched to the >>1500 lb. When I talked to Skystar about the upgrade they told me it >>was a spar carry through tube and area that was the major change. >>It was thicker and there was no way to up the gross on it. I did >>not chase any details after that. The only thing for sure is the >>kit manufacture date for the 1400 to 1500. Not much help. Good luck >>Albert >>5TD-NSI-T ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:00 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Off topic Beothuck People --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Oct 1, 2006, at 2:04 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Vikings settled here over a thousand years ago As the Scandinavian metalwork found at l'Anse aux Meadows proves, and the American timber found in Greenland. Thank you for the story, Noel, I just love that kind of stuff! As John's daddy said, not a day without learning something! Today I learnt that Labrador comes from "Le bras d'or." Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:42 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Off topic Beothuck PeopleOff topic Beothuck People --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs John sez: "... if you dont learn something new everyday then the day was wasted !" I thought the expression was, "If you aren't wasted, the day is." :-) Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:36 AM PST US From: "Richard D'Archangel" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Undercarriage - Bungee nico press Wicks http://www.wicksaircraft.com/ sells aviation shock cord. Malcolmbru@aol.com wrote: > I need a set of bunges for my model 2 can someone send me the proper > stuf?. how much??malcolm > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:04 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Off topic Beothuck People --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 05:04 PM 9/30/2006, you wrote: >Hope this clears up the name on the plane..... To any Mic-Mac or other >indigenous people out there we will have to agree to disagree on First >Nations people in Newfoundland. Thanks Noel. It does. Between you and Michel I'm beginning to learn something! Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:29 AM PST US From: "David C. Watterson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Graphics body wrap! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David C. Watterson" Thanks everyone for your comments on graphics. I will give it a sample test and report back to the list my findings. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:01 AM PST US From: "David C. Watterson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Student InsuranceStudent InsuranceStudent InsuranceStudent I --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David C. Watterson" My local office in Kerrville wrote the policy for me. It is Falcon Insurance 830-257-1000, The agent is Ladd Gardner. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:06 AM PST US From: "A Smith" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 1400 Gross Weight --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "A Smith" That would be about the right date. Mine was early in 96 Just seconds before the upgrade. My typical luck. Albert ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:24 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gnomes From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Any connection between Gnomes and Genomics? Whether there is or not I believe you will find this blog entry by Anousheh Ansari very worthwhile reading. http://spaceblog.xprize.org/ I attended talks by Dick Rutan (Voyager Flight) and Mike Melville (Space Ship One) at AirVenture this year, and also Chuck Yeager. Gnomes may know when they are needed, and likely enjoy their mission. I was wondering about effects on weight and balance of a Gnome on board a KITFOX. I'll guess they can carry their own load. I'll do my best to convince my sea gnome to come flying with me. do not archive -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65034#65034 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:14 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions From: "darinh" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into a few questions. 1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks to clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT and 3/8" NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no holes in the tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and 5/8" NPT, not 1/8"). 2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible with gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the kit labeled 9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should use? And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked? Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet to figure it out. What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel compatibility of the resin in our tanks? I have yet to find a slosh that is compatible. I know there has been at least a couple of Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know something. There is always the option of simply not using gasoline and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am planning. But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium unleaded when at the home field. If anyone knows of a product that will work, I would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks guys, Darin Hawkes Series 7 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65054#65054 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:35 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Darin, The 1/8" and 5/8" NPT are correct. The 1/8" NPT is are the fuel sight tube fittings and vent tube. The 5/8" NPT is the main fuel line where the finger strainer is used. The 9AR is a good fuel sealant has worked well on ours. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of darinh Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into a few questions. 1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks to clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT and 3/8" NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no holes in the tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and 5/8" NPT, not 1/8"). 2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible with gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the kit labeled 9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should use? And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked? Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet to figure it out. What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel compatibility of the resin in our tanks? I have yet to find a slosh that is compatible. I know there has been at least a couple of Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know something. There is always the option of simply not using gasoline and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am planning. But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium unleaded when at the home field. If anyone knows of a product that will work, I would appreciate hearing about it. Thanks guys, Darin Hawkes Series 7 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65054#65054 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:36 PM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson Wow, E85 will eat most any thing in a fiberglass tank as well as the sealant for the fittings. E10 is bad enough. Lots of fitting sealer used over the years for various members of the list. I am sure you will get many suggestions. Some work some don't. My suggestion is to call Permatex and get ahold of the application engineer and tell him what fuel you want to use and that you have a fiberglass tank. Do not tell him it is for an airplane. The guy will tell you what their best product is. And I bet it will be different than when I called 2 years ago. Don't worry about the tap - just use the one that fits. BTW, you should reconsider using E85 its bad stuff and I know of no engine used in planes that will not be damaged by the stuff, unless you are using something out of an auto less than a year old that was originally designed for E85. I know of no sloshing compound designed for pure or 85% alcohol. You would need nylon, polyurethane, or Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and then make your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the fuel system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10% Regards, Paul =================== At 03:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > >I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into >a few questions. > >1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks >to clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT >and 3/8" NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no >holes in the tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized >as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and >5/8" NPT, not 1/8"). > >2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible >with gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the >kit labeled 9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should >use? And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked? > >Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet >to figure it out. What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel >compatibility of the resin in our tanks? I have yet to find a slosh >that is compatible. I know there has been at least a couple of >Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know >something. There is always the option of simply not using gasoline >and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am >planning. But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium >unleaded when at the home field. If anyone knows of a product that >will work, I would appreciate hearing about it. > >Thanks guys, > >Darin Hawkes >Series 7 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65054#65054 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:21 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 02:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote: >1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks to >clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT and 3/8" >NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no holes in the >tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized as I will need to >buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and 5/8" NPT, not 1/8"). The sizes recommended are correct. A 1/8" NPT looks like 3/8" NC. It's a bit confusing because they're pipe sizes. However, if I had to do it over again I'd do some serious investigation into putting a permanent 1/2" NPT boss at the intakes to facilitate repeated removal and installation of the finger strainers. The 1/8 NPT brass vent boss is permanent, since the vent is attached using a 90 degree AN fitting into a pipe/flare junction, which is never removed from the brass boss which is never removed from the tank. However the 3/8" NPT finger strainers are threaded into the tank directly which makes maintenance a pain. Eventually the threads will fail and I'll have to do the 1/2" boss installation with the tanks in the plane. I understand using a 1/2" boss will raise the pick-ups about 3/16", but since I never run the tanks that dry anyway I don't think it will be a problem. >2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible with >gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the kit labeled >9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should use? And if not, can >someone suggest a one that has worked? I tried lots of things which didn't work. (Permatex 1 & 2 & Grey.) The one that did was the 2-part polysulfide sealant sold by, among others, Aircraft Spruce. It's hideously expensive and messy to work with, but it definitely works with 100LL, even on a polyethylene tank. (This before Herb found the great polyethylene adhesive. I should have looked harder. Thanks Herb!) Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:15 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 04:10 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote: >You would need nylon, polyurethane, or >Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and then make >your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the >fuel system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10% >Regards, Paul Paul, I wouldn't go that far. Most gasoline storage tanks are made, now, of vinylester / E-glass laminate. It's entirely possible, (though unlikely,) that Skystar used vinylester in their original fabrication and that the tanks are impervious to auto and aviation fuel. Maybe John McBean at Kitfox will know. Guy ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:10 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Graphics body wrap! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 09:17 AM 9/30/2006, you wrote: >Since the gnomes, as their land-based cousins, live with their entire >family on board, they are very careful and are known to have safe many >a ship from disaster by warning of the imminent danger. For that >reason, they were respected by seafarers and it was good luck to have >them aboard. Michel, The only relative I'm familiar with are the gnomes that come on deck during races at night and cause spinnaker wraps, over-rides, and lost winch handles. They must be the American version, evolved to encourage a vigorous marine industry economy! Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:51 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Two Series 7 Questions From: "darinh" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" Thanks guys! Funny thing is about 15 minutes after I posted this question about the taps, I realized they are NPT threads...I have read this many times in the manual and written it in the original post and still have no idea why I failed to notice the big capitalized NPT...maybe its that 2-part varnish I have been using... [Shocked] As for the tanks and fuel...we don't have any alcohol in our fuel out here yet but I am sure it is coming. I will simply plan on using it until the ethynol bug hits and then switch to 100LL with a lead scavenger. Thanks again, Darin Hawkes Series 7 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65092#65092 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:39 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" http://www.age85.org/ Go to the above site and study for a while before making such claims below. Many Lycomings and Continentals are run on AGE85 which is at least 85% ethanol and generally closser to 90%. Read for yourself. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "PWilson" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 6:10 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson > > Wow, E85 will eat most any thing in a fiberglass tank as well as the > sealant for the fittings. E10 is bad enough. > Lots of fitting sealer used over the years for various members of > the list. I am sure you will get many suggestions. Some work some > don't. My suggestion is to call Permatex and get ahold of the > application engineer and tell him what fuel you want to use and that > you have a fiberglass tank. Do not tell him it is for an airplane. > The guy will tell you what their best product is. And I bet it will > be different than when I called 2 years ago. > Don't worry about the tap - just use the one that fits. > > BTW, you should reconsider using E85 its bad stuff and I know of no > engine used in planes that will not be damaged by the stuff, unless > you are using something out of an auto less than a year old that was > originally designed for E85. I know of no sloshing compound designed > for pure or 85% alcohol. You would need nylon, polyurethane, or > Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and then make > your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the > fuel system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10% > Regards, Paul > =================== > > At 03:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote: > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > > >I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into > >a few questions. > > > >1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks > >to clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT > >and 3/8" NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no > >holes in the tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized > >as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and > >5/8" NPT, not 1/8"). > > > >2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible > >with gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the > >kit labeled 9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should > >use? And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked? > > > >Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet > >to figure it out. What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel > >compatibility of the resin in our tanks? I have yet to find a slosh > >that is compatible. I know there has been at least a couple of > >Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know > >something. There is always the option of simply not using gasoline > >and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am > >planning. But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium > >unleaded when at the home field. If anyone knows of a product that > >will work, I would appreciate hearing about it. > > > >Thanks guys, > > > >Darin Hawkes > >Series 7 > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65054#65054 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:53 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" By the way the PR-1005-L slosh sold by ASP is good for Ethanol. You can call 10-237-6649 or ASP them selves. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "PWilson" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 6:10 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson > > Wow, E85 will eat most any thing in a fiberglass tank as well as the > sealant for the fittings. E10 is bad enough. > Lots of fitting sealer used over the years for various members of > the list. I am sure you will get many suggestions. Some work some > don't. My suggestion is to call Permatex and get ahold of the > application engineer and tell him what fuel you want to use and that > you have a fiberglass tank. Do not tell him it is for an airplane. > The guy will tell you what their best product is. And I bet it will > be different than when I called 2 years ago. > Don't worry about the tap - just use the one that fits. > > BTW, you should reconsider using E85 its bad stuff and I know of no > engine used in planes that will not be damaged by the stuff, unless > you are using something out of an auto less than a year old that was > originally designed for E85. I know of no sloshing compound designed > for pure or 85% alcohol. You would need nylon, polyurethane, or > Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and then make > your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the > fuel system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10% > Regards, Paul > =================== > > At 03:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote: > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > > >I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into > >a few questions. > > > >1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks > >to clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT > >and 3/8" NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no > >holes in the tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized > >as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and > >5/8" NPT, not 1/8"). > > > >2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible > >with gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the > >kit labeled 9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should > >use? And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked? > > > >Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet > >to figure it out. What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel > >compatibility of the resin in our tanks? I have yet to find a slosh > >that is compatible. I know there has been at least a couple of > >Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know > >something. There is always the option of simply not using gasoline > >and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am > >planning. But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium > >unleaded when at the home field. If anyone knows of a product that > >will work, I would appreciate hearing about it. > > > >Thanks guys, > > > >Darin Hawkes > >Series 7 > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65054#65054 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:57 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" Your post is the first I've heard of a lead scavenger can you tell me more about this process? Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:11 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Two Series 7 Questions > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > Thanks guys! Funny thing is about 15 minutes after I posted > this question about the taps, I realized they are NPT > threads...I have read this many times in the manual and > written it in the original post and still have no idea why I > failed to notice the big capitalized NPT...maybe its that > 2-part varnish I have been using... [Shocked] > > As for the tanks and fuel...we don't have any alcohol in our > fuel out here yet but I am sure it is coming. I will simply > plan on using it until the ethynol bug hits and then switch > to 100LL with a lead scavenger. > > Thanks again, > > Darin Hawkes > Series 7 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65092#65092 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:17 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" I got 541KF back in the air after the first engine failed. This time I had redesigned baffles, and a CHT guage. The oil temp read the same 190-200 degrees, but the new CHT read 450-550 degees. Thinking that the engine was about to melt again I gave up and called Steve Bennet at Great Plains. His suggestion was to read the temp from under a head bolt instead ot the spark plug. The new location shows a happy 250-275 degrees on the side I changed, and 500-550 on the other side still under the plug. With about 3 hours on this engine now I am beginnig to trust the installation. That was the good part. The downside is that I still don't have the GSC prop dialed in. I also feel that the 1915cc engine is tooooo small. 300' takeoff roll at sea level, 500fpm climb, 65~ mph cruise, 78~flat out at 60 F and 850 lbs. I know it's the Speedster, but I need better than that. I hope to test this motor/prop for the first 40 hours or so then spring for a stroker crank. 2275 cc should do the trick nicely, but I was hoping to keep the fuel burn down. Now that I can moniter the engines condition better I may start over on the prop selections as I believe the Ivo was the one that gave 370lbs of thrust. I thought it was responsible for my overheating problems. Ron NB Ore 1915cc VW 1.6:1 redrive MK IV Speedster 66" GSC/ 72" Ivo _________________________________________________________________ Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:35 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Glad to hear it running again Ron. NOt Glad to hear that the performance sux. I sure you figure it out yet. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron schick" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:48 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" > > > I got 541KF back in the air after the first engine failed. This time I > had redesigned baffles, and a CHT guage. The oil temp read the same > 190-200 degrees, but the new CHT read 450-550 degees. Thinking that the > engine was about to melt again I gave up and called Steve Bennet at Great > Plains. His suggestion was to read the temp from under a head bolt instead > ot the spark plug. The new location shows a happy 250-275 degrees on the > side I changed, and 500-550 on the other side still under the plug. With > about 3 hours on this engine now I am beginnig to trust the installation. > That was the good part. The downside is that I still don't have the GSC > prop dialed in. I also feel that the 1915cc engine is tooooo small. > 300' takeoff roll at sea level, 500fpm climb, 65~ mph cruise, 78~flat out > at 60 F and 850 lbs. I know it's the Speedster, but I need better than > that. I hope to test this motor/prop for the first 40 hours or so then > spring for a stroker crank. 2275 cc should do the trick nicely, but I was > hoping to keep the fuel burn down. Now that I can moniter the engines > condition better I may start over on the prop selections as I believe the > Ivo was the one that gave 370lbs of thrust. I thought it was responsible > for my overheating problems. > Ron NB Ore 1915cc VW 1.6:1 redrive MK IV Speedster 66" GSC/ 72" Ivo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get today's hot entertainment gossip > http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:13 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Ron, I should have added what is your prop speed now with Redrive ? I have found that GSC props like to run 2000 to 2600 rpm ........... How many HP is your vw putting out ? I bet it sounds pretty good. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron schick" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:48 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" > > > I got 541KF back in the air after the first engine failed. This time I > had redesigned baffles, and a CHT guage. The oil temp read the same > 190-200 degrees, but the new CHT read 450-550 degees. Thinking that the > engine was about to melt again I gave up and called Steve Bennet at Great > Plains. His suggestion was to read the temp from under a head bolt instead > ot the spark plug. The new location shows a happy 250-275 degrees on the > side I changed, and 500-550 on the other side still under the plug. With > about 3 hours on this engine now I am beginnig to trust the installation. > That was the good part. The downside is that I still don't have the GSC > prop dialed in. I also feel that the 1915cc engine is tooooo small. > 300' takeoff roll at sea level, 500fpm climb, 65~ mph cruise, 78~flat out > at 60 F and 850 lbs. I know it's the Speedster, but I need better than > that. I hope to test this motor/prop for the first 40 hours or so then > spring for a stroker crank. 2275 cc should do the trick nicely, but I was > hoping to keep the fuel burn down. Now that I can moniter the engines > condition better I may start over on the prop selections as I believe the > Ivo was the one that gave 370lbs of thrust. I thought it was responsible > for my overheating problems. > Ron NB Ore 1915cc VW 1.6:1 redrive MK IV Speedster 66" GSC/ 72" Ivo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get today's hot entertainment gossip > http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:14 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Guy , I was out tonight weight about 850lbs wet with me solo. 955 ASL zero wind temp about 50F Consistently off the ground in 200 or less with a bit of flap 250 + otherwise but certainly never over 300 feet. I got a video of it and will try to get it made into a .wmv. soon and post it. Were you able to get your off the ground better now ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 12:22 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Off topic Beothuck People > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > > At 05:04 PM 9/30/2006, you wrote: >>Hope this clears up the name on the plane..... To any Mic-Mac or other >>indigenous people out there we will have to agree to disagree on First >>Nations people in Newfoundland. > > Thanks Noel. It does. Between you and Michel I'm beginning to learn > something! > > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:51 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" I notice this fuel is so good it requires an STC. Available for only few engines and it seems only on a C180. This is uncertified fuel and there fore should not be used when carrying paying passengers. I noticed one of the constituents is bio-diesel A fuel that has no specs what ever. So much for consistency. Of course with the affinity ethanol has for water/vapour you can't expect any consistency any way. The only plus I see is it is described as being no lead. Before using this stuff be sure your complete fuel system is ethanol compatible and your insurance allows it's use. I've said it before and I'll say it again.... Ethanol is a dismally poor, at best, half baked, makeshift answer to a big question. There are better answers out there all we have to do is develop them. Of course most of these answers won't get politicians in agricultural ridings get re-elected Alcohol and flight should be separated by at least twelve hours....always! Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Bob Unternaehrer > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:02 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > > http://www.age85.org/ > > Go to the above site and study for a while before making such > claims below. > Many Lycomings and Continentals are run on AGE85 which is at least 85% > ethanol and generally closser to 90%. Read for yourself. Bob U. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "PWilson" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 6:10 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson > > > > Wow, E85 will eat most any thing in a fiberglass tank as well as the > > sealant for the fittings. E10 is bad enough. > > Lots of fitting sealer used over the years for various members of > > the list. I am sure you will get many suggestions. Some work some > > don't. My suggestion is to call Permatex and get ahold of the > > application engineer and tell him what fuel you want to use and that > > you have a fiberglass tank. Do not tell him it is for an airplane. > > The guy will tell you what their best product is. And I bet it will > > be different than when I called 2 years ago. > > Don't worry about the tap - just use the one that fits. > > > > BTW, you should reconsider using E85 its bad stuff and I know of no > > engine used in planes that will not be damaged by the stuff, unless > > you are using something out of an auto less than a year old that was > > originally designed for E85. I know of no sloshing compound designed > > for pure or 85% alcohol. You would need nylon, polyurethane, or > > Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and > then make > > your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the > > fuel system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10% > > Regards, Paul > > =================== > > > > At 03:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > > > > >I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into > > >a few questions. > > > > > >1. The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks > > >to clean out the existing threads. I then says to use a 1/8" NPT > > >and 3/8" NPT tap. Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as > there are no > > >holes in the tank that size. QUESTION: What are the correct sized > > >as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and > > >5/8" NPT, not 1/8"). > > > > > >2. The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible > > >with gasoline. I have a small tube of sealant that came with the > > >kit labeled 9AR. QUESTION: Is this the thread sealant I should > > >use? And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked? > > > > > >Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet > > >to figure it out. What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel > > >compatibility of the resin in our tanks? I have yet to > find a slosh > > >that is compatible. I know there has been at least a couple of > > >Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know > > >something. There is always the option of simply not using gasoline > > >and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am > > >planning. But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium > > >unleaded when at the home field. If anyone knows of a product that > > >will work, I would appreciate hearing about it. > > > > > >Thanks guys, > > > > > >Darin Hawkes > > >Series 7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Read this topic online here: > > > > > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65054#65054 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:18 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Two Series 7 Questions "lead scavenging" to Noel -->Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" -->Your post is the first I've heard of a lead scavenger can you tell me more -->about this process? -->Noel Hi Noel It looks like you are enquisitive about the "lead scavenger" Below I have pasted the thread that was around a couple of weeks ago. Based on some questions from me. But this is not really a "scavenger" only a softener, that the lead can pass more easily. Sounds like a well advertised personal medication to me :) Sorry guys, I have not forgot to reply to you. Been busy this last couple of weeks and I need to study the Rotax 912 manual on the topic of placement of the oil tank as compared to where we (Classic IV) mount the tank. Rex, will talk to you again, in the meantime take a look at the placement where Rotax is suggesting Eric Ashman. Atlanta area ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- thread: Ceashman, I don't believe the reduction gear is the reason for the synthetic/semi-synthetic oils you mention. Motorcycle oils have an additive that helps prevent the "shearing" of oil for their trannys, so a motorcycle oil grade oil should be used. The problem is that lead in aviation fuel isn't compatable with synthetic oil due to its suspension in the oil. TCP doesn't eliminate lead. It softens it and "helps" it to leave the engine out the exhaust. I wouldn't use synthetic oil with aviation fuel even with TCP. On your second question, the higher level of oil required (on dip stick) is an answer to some foaming of the oil in the oil tank. If there's enough foam instead of liquid oil, you could starve your engine. I don't believe the higher level will make your engine any more likely to get past the oil pump. The position where the pump stops determines that. Later models of Foxes lowered the entire location of the tank to reduce this tendency. Also, Rotax's choice of oils has to do with ones that don't foam as much as others. I use Honda HP4 semi synthetic motorcycle oil and have 557 trouble free hours. Just my understanding after taking two Rotax four stroke classes. If you get a chance to take them, they're very good. Eric Tucker does a great job of covering that engine. I hope I got this info right. Rex in Michigan -- Ceashman@aol.com wrote: How about this angle to the thread? We know that Rotax states that the 912 motor requires synthetic (with no 100 LL) or semi synthetic (for when 100 LL) is being used, for reason of lubing the reduction drive. But how about if you purchase the TCP lead scavenger fuel additive from John at Sport Plane LLC / Kitfox. ( side note: John, why don't you have your S.P.llc catalogue on your Kitfox site ?) The way I am thinking of this is; If I use the TCP to remove the lead, then there is no issue with the oil I use and we could use full synthetic. Any thoughts on this? Another question. (New topic, KITFOX 912 OIL TANK DIP STICK) For us who have the 912 with the oil tank behind and above the motor. Why are we using the new replacement dip stick? I know that there was a Rotax service memo about this. This will only load the system more than full and you get a dirty belly or you get hydraulic lock after the plane sits for a while and gravity drained the oil to the lowest places. This happened to me. It is a good thing that I always hand prop a couple of times with power off. I would hate to think of what would happen if I used the starter! Could have bent something. Has anyone had the hydraulic lock problem? Eric, Atlanta. Mark, All I know about this subject is from the Rotax bulletin on preferred oils and the Rotax seminars. Synthetics are recommended by them for unleaded fuels only. When using occasional leaded fuels they recommend a synthetic blend or full mineral if using 100 LL. If you would like to read their bulletin on this, follow the links below to the numbered bulletin. When I change oil, I wipe down the oil tank with a papertowl and without fail, if I have been using 100LL as in a long cross country, I get a pasty residue from the tank. It is light gray colored. With the exception of the gear additive recommended by Rotax because the engine oil also lubricates the gear box, I am comfortable with their general recommendations for all four stroke engine types. It would be good of course to have other data from other engine types to eliminate the need to extrapolate. http://www.rotax-owner.com/ SERVICE DOCUMENT RETRIEVAL SYSTEM SI-18-1997 (2004) SI-912-016 (2006) Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Thompson" Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 3:45 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question on oil > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Thompson" > > Lowel what do you think about running fully synthetic oil in an air cooled > VW engine using 100LL,........I hope this is ok because I am fly this > morning to fuel up again with 100LL,This will be the first flight using > synthetic oil.............. > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Lowell Fitt >> To: >> Date: 9/10/2006 12:08:14 PM >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question on oil >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" >> >> Dee, >> >> The value in a full synthetic is the higher temps they can tolerate, the > hit >> is their inability to keep the lead residues in suspension. If you fly >> strictly with car gas, the synthetic should be fine. If you occasionally >> use 100LL then you might want to avoid synthetics. This from the Rotax > oil >> recommendation bulletin. The Rotax 912 series engines use the same oil > in >> the engine as well as the gear box so they recommend a motorcycle engine > oil >> with the gear additive. If your engine is similar, you might want to > check >> the Rotax owners association website for info. >> >> Lowell =================================== ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List =================================== tronics.com =================================== ics.com =================================== www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:41 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Prop rpm ~2000 I have not dynoed the motor, but i'll bet it's not over 60 hp at these rpms. Sounds really good even when you pull the throttle for decent. Solid idle and smooth. I have built 1915cc motors that dynoed 115 hp, but they had big cams and carbs. If I build a 2275 stroker it will have a bigger cam and intake. Playing with a zero time Revmaster in the garage though so I may have to weld up another mount. (It's paid for) Ron NB Ore >From: "Dave" >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 22:00:45 -0400 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > >Ron, I should have added what is your prop speed now with Redrive ? >I have found that GSC props like to run 2000 to 2600 rpm ........... > >How many HP is your vw putting out ? I bet it sounds pretty good. > >Dave > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "ron schick" >To: >Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:48 PM >Subject: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" >> >> >>I got 541KF back in the air after the first engine failed. This time I >>had redesigned baffles, and a CHT guage. The oil temp read the same >>190-200 degrees, but the new CHT read 450-550 degees. Thinking that the >>engine was about to melt again I gave up and called Steve Bennet at Great >>Plains. His suggestion was to read the temp from under a head bolt instead >>ot the spark plug. The new location shows a happy 250-275 degrees on the >>side I changed, and 500-550 on the other side still under the plug. With >>about 3 hours on this engine now I am beginnig to trust the installation. >> That was the good part. The downside is that I still don't have the >>GSC prop dialed in. I also feel that the 1915cc engine is tooooo small. >>300' takeoff roll at sea level, 500fpm climb, 65~ mph cruise, 78~flat out >>at 60 F and 850 lbs. I know it's the Speedster, but I need better than >>that. I hope to test this motor/prop for the first 40 hours or so then >>spring for a stroker crank. 2275 cc should do the trick nicely, but I was >>hoping to keep the fuel burn down. Now that I can moniter the engines >>condition better I may start over on the prop selections as I believe the >>Ivo was the one that gave 370lbs of thrust. I thought it was responsible >>for my overheating problems. >> Ron NB Ore 1915cc VW 1.6:1 redrive MK IV Speedster 66" GSC/ 72" Ivo >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get today's hot entertainment gossip >>http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:56 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" Prop rpm ~2000 I have not dynoed the motor, but i'll bet it's not over 60 hp at these rpms. Sounds really good even when you pull the throttle for decent. Solid idle and smooth. I have built 1915cc motors that dynoed 115 hp, but they had big cams and carbs. If I build a 2275 stroker it will have a bigger cam and intake. Playing with a zero time Revmaster in the garage though so I may have to weld up another mount. (It's paid for) Ron NB Ore >From: "Dave" >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 22:00:45 -0400 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > >Ron, I should have added what is your prop speed now with Redrive ? >I have found that GSC props like to run 2000 to 2600 rpm ........... > >How many HP is your vw putting out ? I bet it sounds pretty good. > >Dave > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "ron schick" >To: >Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:48 PM >Subject: Kitfox-List: VW redrive results > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" >> >> >>I got 541KF back in the air after the first engine failed. This time I >>had redesigned baffles, and a CHT guage. The oil temp read the same >>190-200 degrees, but the new CHT read 450-550 degees. Thinking that the >>engine was about to melt again I gave up and called Steve Bennet at Great >>Plains. His suggestion was to read the temp from under a head bolt instead >>ot the spark plug. The new location shows a happy 250-275 degrees on the >>side I changed, and 500-550 on the other side still under the plug. With >>about 3 hours on this engine now I am beginnig to trust the installation. >> That was the good part. The downside is that I still don't have the >>GSC prop dialed in. I also feel that the 1915cc engine is tooooo small. >>300' takeoff roll at sea level, 500fpm climb, 65~ mph cruise, 78~flat out >>at 60 F and 850 lbs. I know it's the Speedster, but I need better than >>that. I hope to test this motor/prop for the first 40 hours or so then >>spring for a stroker crank. 2275 cc should do the trick nicely, but I was >>hoping to keep the fuel burn down. Now that I can moniter the engines >>condition better I may start over on the prop selections as I believe the >>Ivo was the one that gave 370lbs of thrust. I thought it was responsible >>for my overheating problems. >> Ron NB Ore 1915cc VW 1.6:1 redrive MK IV Speedster 66" GSC/ 72" Ivo >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get today's hot entertainment gossip >>http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and morethen map the best route! http://local.live.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:23 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote: >Were you able to get your off the ground better now ? Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. (Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my stall speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on was 40 and 31, respectively. I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift the tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 over stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't remember, the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff is much shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right at stall speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty day. What are you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs? Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:10 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Two Series 7 Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" I feel fortunate that there is so little ethanol degraded fuel in this area. There seems to be two or three things that can be done when dealing with a substance that is better suited to a glass after flying than in a tank to fly on. 1. The alcohol can be washed out of the fuel using plain old fashioned water. This of course has to be done in separate containers and the water drained off before fuelling your plane. There are a couple of inconveniences, one, it requires separate containers that you won't be flying to remote fields with and secondly, you cant be sure of what other additives the water will wash out. 2. Find a source of non eth fuel. 3. A guy on another list says he has been using eth laced fuel for years with no problems(composite tanks) He was premixing his gas for his R582. Recently, within the last year, he installed a Jab and now uses a little top lube (oil) in his gas in hopes that is why his tanks were not attacked by the booze. He may be right as it is more than possible that the alcohol may have more affinity to oil than to epoxy. The old dead horse now officially flogged again! Noel > Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I > have yet to figure it out. What has everyone been doing > about the E85 fuel compatibility of the resin in our tanks? > I have yet to find a slosh that is compatible. I know there > has been at least a couple of Kitfoxes built within the last > year, so someone should know something. There is always the > option of simply not using gasoline and sticking with 100LL > with a lead scavenger which is what I am planning. But is is > nice to be able to fill up with premium unleaded when at the > home field. If anyone knows of a product that will work, I > would appreciate hearing about it. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:45 PM PST US From: dwight purdy Subject: Kitfox-List: flight checklist --> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy Have a friend not on the list with a model ll wanting a checklist before his first flight. I know there were a few on the list in the last year or so. Could someone help me out? Is there another way to get to the most recent archives? dwight -- Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:21 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. 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These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "kitfox-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Kitfox-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kitfox-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kitfox-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kitfox-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Kitfox-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kitfox ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:48 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Kitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive