----------------------------------------------------------
                           Kitfox-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Mon 10/02/06: 28
           ----------------------------------------------------------
 
 
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:47 AM - [off topic]Gnomes  (Michel Verheughe)
     2. 04:17 AM - Re: flight checklist  (Dave)
     3. 08:50 AM - Re: Two Series 7 Questions  (darinh)
     4. 09:17 AM - Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 vs. Handling of IV-1200  (Nick Scholtes)
     5. 09:17 AM - Buying a KitFox, How to get parts to do some modifications?  (Nick Scholtes)
     6. 09:17 AM - Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace everything?  (Nick Scholtes)
     7. 09:34 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace everything?  (Dave)
     8. 09:36 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 vs. Handling of IV-1200  (Dave)
     9. 10:30 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 vs. Ha  (wingnut)
    10. 11:00 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox, How to get parts to do some modifications?  (Don Smythe)
    11. 11:03 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace everything?  (Don Smythe)
    12. 01:50 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers  (John Anderson)
    13. 02:16 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers  (Dave)
    14. 02:52 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers  (Lowell Fitt)
    15. 03:06 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers  (Dave)
    16. 04:01 PM - Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 vs. Handling of IV-1200  (Noel Loveys)
    17. 04:54 PM - Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace everything?  (Bob Unternaehrer)
    18. 05:07 PM - Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace e  (dcsfoto)
    19. 05:54 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers  (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
    20. 06:00 PM - Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 vs. Handling of IV-1200  (john perry)
    21. 06:32 PM - Re: flight checklist  (dwight purdy)
    22. 06:46 PM - Re: flight checklist LINK here  (Dave)
    23. 07:27 PM - Re: Kitfox 5 1400 Gross Weight  (JJProbasco@cs.com)
    24. 07:27 PM - Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace everything?  (Noel Loveys)
    25. 07:31 PM - Where can I get a Kitfox V POH  (Frank Lenzotti Jr.)
    26. 08:23 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers  (ron schick)
    27. 08:34 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers  (ron schick)
    28. 09:11 PM - Re: flight checklist  (Jerry)
 
 
 
________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 01:47:30 AM PST US
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: [off topic]Gnomes

> From: Guy Buchanan [bnn@nethere.com]
>  They must be the American version, evolved to encourage a 
> vigorous marine industry economy!

They must be, Guy, because, in the Scandinavian tradition, gnomes are the wise
small guys and trolls are the nasty big fellows. My only knowledge of a nasty
little guy is the South African tokelosh, who will come and take you when you
sleep near the ground.
Incidently, a few years ago in Belgium and The Netherlands, a group of people started
the "Free the garden gnomes" organisation. They would come and steal the
small scultupres in people's garden, at night. 
... some people really need to get a life! :-)

Cheers,
Michel

do not archive


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</b></font></pre></body></html>

________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 04:17:39 AM PST US
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flight checklist

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>

Dwight,

I have a Kitfox  2 POH  it about 1.2 megs   --- let me know if you want it 
mailed to you or i can post a link for it if you let me know for download.


Dave


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dwight purdy" <dpurdy@comteck.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:23 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: flight checklist


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
>
>   Have a friend not on the list with a model ll wanting a checklist before 
> his first flight.
>   I know there were a few on the list in the last year or so. Could 
> someone help me out?  Is there another way to get to the most recent 
> archives?
>
> dwight
>
> -- 
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 08:50:02 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Two Series 7 Questions
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>

Float Flyr,

We don't have ethynol laced fuel in my area yet either but I am sure it is coming.
I will use premium unleaded in my Series 7 until they start mixing the corn
gas (ethynol) in.  At that point, I will make the switch to 100LL with a lead
scavenger.  In my model III I always carried a bottle of the scavenger for
when I fueled up while on X-country trips.  

The scavenger is called Decalin TCP and John McBean sells it on Sportplanellc.com.
Here is a link:

http://www.sportplanellc.com/Decalin%20TCP.htm

John uses it exclusively in his personal Kitfox as I understand and if its good
for his Fox, it will be good for mine.

Darin Hawkes
Series 7


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65205#65205


________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 09:17:25 AM PST US
From: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, First Question:  Handling of IV-1050 vs.
Handling  of IV-1200

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>

Hi KitFoxers!

I've posted to the list a few times in the last few weeks, but here's my 
background again:  I'm an "old fart" CFI who teaches on weekends and 
evenings over at the local FBO, just for fun (not trying to build hours 
to be an airline pilot, like all the young kids do).  I teach tailwheel 
in the Citabria and Decathlon and others.

I want to buy an airplane, I don't want to build one.  But, the KitFox 
has some unique qualities (STOL, folding wings) that make it much more 
feasible for my situation than a Cub or Citabria or whatever.  So, I'm 
looking to purchase a KitFox Model IV, and basically I want it to be as 
much like the airplanes I'm used to as it can be. 

This weekend, I went to look at my first KitFox, and this has raised a 
bunch of questions.  I'll ask each question in a separate email, so they 
"thread" better.  So here's the first one:


-- The KitFox I went to look at is a Model IV-1050.  I read somewhere 
that there were significant changes to the vertical surfaces on the 
IV-1200 vs. the IV-1050.
I was very "unimpressed" with how the IV-1050 handled in yaw, it sure 
seems to lack yaw stability.  So, how big of a difference is there, in 
handling, between the IV-1050 and the IV-1200?  Is it a big, noticable 
difference, or a tiny little difference?

Thanks!

Nick Scholtes


________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 09:17:36 AM PST US
From: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, How to get parts to do some modifications?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>

KitFoxers!

Hi, my next question revolves around making modifications to the 
airplane.  For example, I want an airplane that has brakes on both 
sides, and I also want to have electric trim.  None of the airplanes 
that I have seen on BarnStormers or anywhere else have BOTH, so I will 
have to install at least one, and probably both, on whatever I buy. 

So, the question is, are there "kits" available to install the electric 
trim or the dual brakes, and if so, where are they offered? 

How hard is it to add the electric trim?  The electric part is easy for 
me (I'm an electrical engineer), but I don't know how hard it would be 
to modify the elevator, etc.

Thanks for any thoughts!

Nick Scholtes


________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 09:17:36 AM PST US
From: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox:  When folding the wings, how do you brace
everything?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>

KitFoxers!

Hi, my next question revolves around bracing the wings once they're 
folded.  The person that is selling the Kitfox IV-1050 that I looked at 
is not the builder, and he has never folded the wings, so when he and I 
folded them it was a first-time for both of us.  Once folded, he brought 
out three pieces of steel tubing that supposedly held the wings once 
they were folded.  One of the pieces of steel tubing clearly went from a 
tang on the fuselage near the fin to a tang on the wing, but there was 
only one of these tubes (the other must've gotten lost over the years).  
The other two steel tubes were much longer, but we had no clue as to 
what they were for. 

Bruce Lina from this list sent me a great "Wing Folding Checklist" that 
I used to help learn the folding procedure.  In that procedure, it talks 
about a "tail bra", "tail tow braces", "forward tow brace", and other 
things that weren't clear.  So, can anyone send a few photos of what all 
these things are, and how they are installed, when a KitFox IV is all 
folded-up and buttoned-up and ready to travel?

Thanks very much!

Nick Scholtes


________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 09:34:07 AM PST US
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox:  When folding the wings, how do you
brace everything?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>

Nick,


The long braces go from the bottom of front spar wing attach point to the 
lower strut attach fitting at fuselage.
This supports the front of wing when folded.

The short tubes connnet to the tail just ahead and on top of the horiz. stab 
to the upper wing attach point .  There is a tab  there .


A tail bra?  well  if  I told my wife she needs a Bra for her tail I would 
be camped out in hangar for life    LOL


Dave


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you 
brace everything?


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
>
> KitFoxers!
>
> Hi, my next question revolves around bracing the wings once they're 
> folded.  The person that is selling the Kitfox IV-1050 that I looked at is 
> not the builder, and he has never folded the wings, so when he and I 
> folded them it was a first-time for both of us.  Once folded, he brought 
> out three pieces of steel tubing that supposedly held the wings once they 
> were folded.  One of the pieces of steel tubing clearly went from a tang 
> on the fuselage near the fin to a tang on the wing, but there was only one 
> of these tubes (the other must've gotten lost over the years).  The other 
> two steel tubes were much longer, but we had no clue as to what they were 
> for.
> Bruce Lina from this list sent me a great "Wing Folding Checklist" that I 
> used to help learn the folding procedure.  In that procedure, it talks 
> about a "tail bra", "tail tow braces", "forward tow brace", and other 
> things that weren't clear.  So, can anyone send a few photos of what all 
> these things are, and how they are installed, when a KitFox IV is all 
> folded-up and buttoned-up and ready to travel?
>
> Thanks very much!
>
> Nick Scholtes
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 09:36:26 AM PST US
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, First Question:  Handling of IV-1050
vs. Handling  of IV-1200

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>

If  you think a IV has unimpressive ya then don't fly a Kitfox  1 or 2

The IV up has aileron differntial and cuts out alot of  adverse yaw.

Overall  I think the Kitfox  IV has excellent yaw control at all speeds.


Dave


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 
vs. Handling of IV-1200


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
>
> Hi KitFoxers!
>
> I've posted to the list a few times in the last few weeks, but here's my 
> background again:  I'm an "old fart" CFI who teaches on weekends and 
> evenings over at the local FBO, just for fun (not trying to build hours to 
> be an airline pilot, like all the young kids do).  I teach tailwheel in 
> the Citabria and Decathlon and others.
>
> I want to buy an airplane, I don't want to build one.  But, the KitFox has 
> some unique qualities (STOL, folding wings) that make it much more 
> feasible for my situation than a Cub or Citabria or whatever.  So, I'm 
> looking to purchase a KitFox Model IV, and basically I want it to be as 
> much like the airplanes I'm used to as it can be.
> This weekend, I went to look at my first KitFox, and this has raised a 
> bunch of questions.  I'll ask each question in a separate email, so they 
> "thread" better.  So here's the first one:
>
>
> -- The KitFox I went to look at is a Model IV-1050.  I read somewhere that 
> there were significant changes to the vertical surfaces on the IV-1200 vs. 
> the IV-1050.
> I was very "unimpressed" with how the IV-1050 handled in yaw, it sure 
> seems to lack yaw stability.  So, how big of a difference is there, in 
> handling, between the IV-1050 and the IV-1200?  Is it a big, noticable 
> difference, or a tiny little difference?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Nick Scholtes
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 10:30:40 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050
vs. Ha
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>


> Overall I think the Kitfox IV has excellent yaw control at all speeds. 


Yaw 'stability' and yaw 'control' are different issues right?

-Luis Rodriguez
824KF
Mod IV 1200


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65245#65245


________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 11:00:25 AM PST US
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, How to get parts to do some modifications?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>

Nick,  (see below)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>

> airplane.  For example, I want an airplane that has brakes on both sides, 
> and I also want to have electric trim.

I have brakes on the left side only but do have the electric trim.  In my 
opinion, it would be much easier to install dual brakes than the electric 
trim.  1st, the electric trim fits into the elevator that is cut out for the 
trim.  This is an option at the time of ordering the kit.  It could be 
installed after the fact but would probably require some fabric cutting, 
etc.  The dual brakes would just be a matter of purchasing the cylinders and 
doing some piping.  Most of that would be right at the firewall.
    BTW, my Classic IV (one step up from the IV 1200) is for sale in 
Virginia.  I have Cleveland brakes and wheels.  Let me know if you might be 
interested.  Price to sell at $20K

Don Smythe
Newport News, Va. (PHF) 


________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 11:03:44 AM PST US
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox:  When folding the wings, how do you
brace everything?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>

Nick,
    The only braces I know about are the two short ones that hold the wings 
back into the folded position.  The two long ones are put in place from the 
leading edge of the wing down the fuselage to support the wing when 
"trailering".  Not used if just sitting in the hanger.  I have the two short 
ones only.

Don Smythe
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you 
brace everything?


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
>
> KitFoxers!
>
> Hi, my next question revolves around bracing the wings once they're 
> folded.  The person that is selling the Kitfox IV-1050 


________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 01:50:47 PM PST US
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>

After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my 
Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight back 
pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back pressure it's 
ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed builds to vy..


From:  Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject:  Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>

At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
>Were you able to get your off the ground better now ?

Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of 
Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm 
between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. 
(Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I 
reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my stall 
speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on was 40 and 
31, respectively.

I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift the 
tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 over 
stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't remember, 
the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff is much 
shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right at stall 
speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty day. What are 
you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs?


Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.


_________________________________________________________________
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming


________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 02:16:13 PM PST US
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>

Guy,

 I forgot to ask,  is this a speedwing? If so that would explain a bit.

We got together 2 Kitofxes and an Avid today for some videos.
I will try to get a few clips together.  That being said I thought about you 
when i did takeoff today with zero wind and stick neutral and it flew off 
the ground in about 200 to 250 feet. solo and  by the time Iwas down the 
runway 1000 feet i was over 200 AGL already.  Plane was about 850 lb take 
off weight with me  solo.
 Unforutnaly I will not be able to do it till next week unless i hit the 
Midnight video centre tonight .

Dave


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" 
> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>
> After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my 
> Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight back 
> pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back pressure it's 
> ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed builds to vy..
>
>
> From:  Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> To:  kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject:  Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
> Date:  Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:55:43 -0700
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
>>Were you able to get your off the ground better now ?
>
> Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of 
> Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm 
> between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. 
> (Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I 
> reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my stall 
> speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on was 40 
> and 31, respectively.
>
> I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift the 
> tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 over 
> stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't remember, 
> the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff is much 
> shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right at stall 
> speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty day. What are 
> you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs?
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 02:52:52 PM PST US
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>

Dave,

The models I through III had an undercambered wing.  All models IV through 
Series 7 use the same airfoil.  I guess in Avid parlence, the latter wouild 
be considered  "Speedwings", although there is no designation as such in the 
Kitfox vernacular.

I scanned past posts and can't determine what you are flying.

Lowell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Guy,
>
> I forgot to ask,  is this a speedwing? If so that would explain a bit.
>
> We got together 2 Kitofxes and an Avid today for some videos.
> I will try to get a few clips together.  That being said I thought about 
> you when i did takeoff today with zero wind and stick neutral and it flew 
> off the ground in about 200 to 250 feet. solo and  by the time Iwas down 
> the runway 1000 feet i was over 200 AGL already.  Plane was about 850 lb 
> take off weight with me  solo.
> Unforutnaly I will not be able to do it till next week unless i hit the 
> Midnight video centre tonight .
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" 
>> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>>
>> After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my 
>> Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight 
>> back pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back 
>> pressure it's ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed 
>> builds to vy..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:  Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>> To:  kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject:  Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>> Date:  Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:55:43 -0700
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>
>> At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
>>>Were you able to get your off the ground better now ?
>>
>> Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of 
>> Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm 
>> between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. 
>> (Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I 
>> reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my 
>> stall speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on 
>> was 40 and 31, respectively.
>>
>> I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift 
>> the tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 
>> over stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't 
>> remember, the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff 
>> is much shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right 
>> at stall speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty day. 
>> What are you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs?
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 03:06:36 PM PST US
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>

Lowell,
Yes   Mine is a 582  IV       TO roll about 250 or less
We had a Kitfox 1   with 503       "  "      "           "
and a Avid Heavy hauler 618    TO Roll about 400 feet.

The latter two have the undercambered wing bit I will say the Avid Take off 
roll is about 400 feet BUT it climbs extremely well once it off the ground.
. He has no VSI and if I climb at 1200 to 1400  fpm he is going up faster 
rate then me. But the Avid is a few feet  narrow wingspan than a Kitfor and 
the chord and wing area I am not sure.

Point is 3 planes all getting off  the terra firma  in decent time.


Dave


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Dave,
>
> The models I through III had an undercambered wing.  All models IV through 
> Series 7 use the same airfoil.  I guess in Avid parlence, the latter 
> wouild be considered  "Speedwings", although there is no designation as 
> such in the Kitfox vernacular.
>
> I scanned past posts and can't determine what you are flying.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>> Guy,
>>
>> I forgot to ask,  is this a speedwing? If so that would explain a bit.
>>
>> We got together 2 Kitofxes and an Avid today for some videos.
>> I will try to get a few clips together.  That being said I thought about 
>> you when i did takeoff today with zero wind and stick neutral and it flew 
>> off the ground in about 200 to 250 feet. solo and  by the time Iwas down 
>> the runway 1000 feet i was over 200 AGL already.  Plane was about 850 lb 
>> take off weight with me  solo.
>> Unforutnaly I will not be able to do it till next week unless i hit the 
>> Midnight video centre tonight .
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" 
>>> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>> After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with 
>>> my Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight 
>>> back pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back 
>>> pressure it's ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed 
>>> builds to vy..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:  Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>> To:  kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject:  Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>>> Date:  Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:55:43 -0700
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>>
>>> At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
>>>>Were you able to get your off the ground better now ?
>>>
>>> Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of 
>>> Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm 
>>> between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. 
>>> (Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I 
>>> reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my 
>>> stall speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on 
>>> was 40 and 31, respectively.
>>>
>>> I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift 
>>> the tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 
>>> over stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't 
>>> remember, the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff 
>>> is much shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right 
>>> at stall speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty 
>>> day. What are you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs?
>>>
>>>
>>> Guy Buchanan
>>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 04:01:55 PM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, First Question:  Handling of IV-1050
vs. Handling  of IV-1200

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>

I have a model III-A on Aerocet 1100 floats.  It also has a pretty good
ventral fin.  There is a bit of adverse yaw nothing for a low time pilot
(me) to worry about.  If I ever get around to it I'll build a slightly
larger rudder to allow for a bit more authority in a slip.

As for the elevator trim This is a 75+ mph aircraft.   I find I only have to
keep a finger on the stick to keep things under control.  I can also use a
slight bit of flaperon to drop my nose slightly if I want to.  I really
don't see re-trimming for a climb... I don't get that high.  I think I may
install a gap seal to allow for a bit more elevator authority close to the
stall.

I did blind rivet a small trim tab on my rudder to help keep make things
easier on my right foot. 

I flew a Super Cub the other day (160hp) I liked the visceral feeling I got
when I opened the throttle but all in all I found the 'Fox to be more agile
but if anything, easier to control.  P.S. I didn't have to re-trim the Cub
either.

Noel


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:06 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, First Question: 
> Handling of IV-1050 vs. Handling of IV-1200
> 
> 
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> 
> If  you think a IV has unimpressive ya then don't fly a Kitfox  1 or 2
> 
> The IV up has aileron differntial and cuts out alot of  adverse yaw.
> 
> Overall  I think the Kitfox  IV has excellent yaw control at 
> all speeds.
> 
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:16 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, First Question: 
> Handling of IV-1050 
> vs. Handling of IV-1200
> 
> 
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes 
> <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
> >
> > Hi KitFoxers!
> >
> > I've posted to the list a few times in the last few weeks, 
> but here's my 
> > background again:  I'm an "old fart" CFI who teaches on 
> weekends and 
> > evenings over at the local FBO, just for fun (not trying to 
> build hours to 
> > be an airline pilot, like all the young kids do).  I teach 
> tailwheel in 
> > the Citabria and Decathlon and others.
> >
> > I want to buy an airplane, I don't want to build one.  But, 
> the KitFox has 
> > some unique qualities (STOL, folding wings) that make it much more 
> > feasible for my situation than a Cub or Citabria or 
> whatever.  So, I'm 
> > looking to purchase a KitFox Model IV, and basically I want 
> it to be as 
> > much like the airplanes I'm used to as it can be.
> > This weekend, I went to look at my first KitFox, and this 
> has raised a 
> > bunch of questions.  I'll ask each question in a separate 
> email, so they 
> > "thread" better.  So here's the first one:
> >
> >
> > -- The KitFox I went to look at is a Model IV-1050.  I read 
> somewhere that 
> > there were significant changes to the vertical surfaces on 
> the IV-1200 vs. 
> > the IV-1050.
> > I was very "unimpressed" with how the IV-1050 handled in 
> yaw, it sure 
> > seems to lack yaw stability.  So, how big of a difference 
> is there, in 
> > handling, between the IV-1050 and the IV-1200?  Is it a 
> big, noticable 
> > difference, or a tiny little difference?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Nick Scholtes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 04:54:45 PM PST US
From: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox:  When folding the wings, how do you
brace everything?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@mcmsys.com>

Holds the rudder from flopping.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do
you brace everything?


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Nick,
>
>
> The long braces go from the bottom of front spar wing attach point to the
> lower strut attach fitting at fuselage.
> This supports the front of wing when folded.
>
> The short tubes connnet to the tail just ahead and on top of the horiz.
stab
> to the upper wing attach point .  There is a tab  there .
>
>
> A tail bra?  well  if  I told my wife she needs a Bra for her tail I would
> be camped out in hangar for life    LOL
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:17 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you
> brace everything?
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
> >
> > KitFoxers!
> >
> > Hi, my next question revolves around bracing the wings once they're
> > folded.  The person that is selling the Kitfox IV-1050 that I looked at
is
> > not the builder, and he has never folded the wings, so when he and I
> > folded them it was a first-time for both of us.  Once folded, he brought
> > out three pieces of steel tubing that supposedly held the wings once
they
> > were folded.  One of the pieces of steel tubing clearly went from a tang
> > on the fuselage near the fin to a tang on the wing, but there was only
one
> > of these tubes (the other must've gotten lost over the years).  The
other
> > two steel tubes were much longer, but we had no clue as to what they
were
> > for.
> > Bruce Lina from this list sent me a great "Wing Folding Checklist" that
I
> > used to help learn the folding procedure.  In that procedure, it talks
> > about a "tail bra", "tail tow braces", "forward tow brace", and other
> > things that weren't clear.  So, can anyone send a few photos of what all
> > these things are, and how they are installed, when a KitFox IV is all
> > folded-up and buttoned-up and ready to travel?
> >
> > Thanks very much!
> >
> > Nick Scholtes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>


________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 05:07:49 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace
e
From: "dcsfoto" <david@kelm.com>

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dcsfoto" <david@kelm.com>

just got back from a trip to the Kitkox plant. 
they sell the front and back braces,I am getting ready to order a set for me.
give John a call


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65338#65338


________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 05:54:16 PM PST US
From: Malcolmbru@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers


________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 06:00:09 PM PST US
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox, First Question:  Handling of IV-1050
vs. Handling  of IV-1200

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>

I say its a matter of just using your feet for something besides standing on 
..
My feet were made for flying a real plane with a ruudder and tailwheel . I 
really think people get complacent when flying ga aircraft and when they get 
into our great kitfoxes they get scared because a person has to fly the 
plane and not just sit there and watch instruments and the auto pilot . I am 
not trying to belittle anyone out there but if your going to fly a TD then, 
there is no better plane than the fox to learn in. You have to use your feet 
and cordinate your turns which is something that should be taught in pilot 
training if someone can fly a fox straight and true and cordinated turns 
then any other plane including them there planes with the wheel at the wrong 
end should be a piece of cake.
 Just my opinion and only mine and no one made me say any of this .

Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582/ subbie soon
HOT PINK IVO inflight
TD / Straight floats

>>
>>
>> -- The KitFox I went to look at is a Model IV-1050.  I read somewhere 
>> that there were significant changes to the vertical surfaces on the 
>> IV-1200 vs. the IV-1050.
>> I was very "unimpressed" with how the IV-1050 handled in yaw, it sure 
>> seems to lack yaw stability.  So, how big of a difference is there, in 
>> handling, between the IV-1050 and the IV-1200?  Is it a big, noticable 
>> difference, or a tiny little difference?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Nick Scholtes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 21  ____________________________________


Time: 06:32:41 PM PST US
From: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flight checklist

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>

Thanks Dave. I will get back with you.

                   Dwight


At 07:15 AM 10/2/2006 -0400, you wrote:

>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
>Dwight,
>
>I have a Kitfox  2 POH  it about 1.2 megs   --- let me know if you want it 
>mailed to you or i can post a link for it if you let me know for download.
>
>
>Dave
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "dwight purdy" <dpurdy@comteck.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:23 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: flight checklist
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
>>
>>   Have a friend not on the list with a model ll wanting a checklist 
>> before his first flight.
>>   I know there were a few on the list in the last year or so. Could 
>> someone help me out?  Is there another way to get to the most recent archives?
>>
>>dwight
>>
>>--
>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.


-- 
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.


________________________________  Message 22  ____________________________________


Time: 06:46:56 PM PST US
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flight checklist  LINK here

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>

Bottom link on left    http://www.cfisher.com/

Direct d/l   link     http://cfisher.com/kitfox/kitfox2poh.pdf
I have lots more i have found on web but I am slow to organize it.

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dwight purdy" <dpurdy@comteck.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flight checklist


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
>
> Thanks Dave. I will get back with you.
>
>                   Dwight
>
>
> At 07:15 AM 10/2/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>>Dwight,
>>
>>I have a Kitfox  2 POH  it about 1.2 megs   --- let me know if you want it 
>>mailed to you or i can post a link for it if you let me know for download.
>>
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "dwight purdy" <dpurdy@comteck.com>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:23 AM
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: flight checklist
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
>>>
>>>   Have a friend not on the list with a model ll wanting a checklist 
>>> before his first flight.
>>>   I know there were a few on the list in the last year or so. Could 
>>> someone help me out?  Is there another way to get to the most recent 
>>> archives?
>>>
>>>dwight
>>>
>>>--
>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
> -- 
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 23  ____________________________________


Time: 07:27:33 PM PST US
From: JJProbasco@cs.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 1400 Gross Weight

Mine is a 1995 S5 kit.  It came with .058 wall spars.  When I asked SkyStar 
about the upgrade to 1550#, all they recommended was .065 wall spars and a NASA

grade bolt for the lift strut to fuse attachment.  No mention of heavier 
carry through tubes or fuse reinforcement. Sky star proceeded to accept my return

of .058 spars and replaced them with the .065 ones for a very nominal charge. 

It seems the .058 ones were getting hard to procure for the two place Kitfox 
Lite. 

Jeff 

________________________________  Message 24  ____________________________________


Time: 07:27:33 PM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox:  When folding the wings, how do you
brace everything?

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>

I use a cloth wrap around my flaperons where they contact the vertical
stabilizer and rudder A big cloth envelope to put over the vertical stab and
rudder would probably be easier to use.

Noel


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
> Bob Unternaehrer
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:36 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox: When folding the 
> wings, how do you brace everything?
> 
> 
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" 
> <shilocom@mcmsys.com>
> 
> Holds the rudder from flopping.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox: When folding the 
> wings, how do
> you brace everything?
> 
> 
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> >
> > Nick,
> >
> >
> > The long braces go from the bottom of front spar wing 
> attach point to the
> > lower strut attach fitting at fuselage.
> > This supports the front of wing when folded.
> >
> > The short tubes connnet to the tail just ahead and on top 
> of the horiz.
> stab
> > to the upper wing attach point .  There is a tab  there .
> >
> >
> > A tail bra?  well  if  I told my wife she needs a Bra for 
> her tail I would
> > be camped out in hangar for life    LOL
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:17 PM
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Buying a KitFox: When folding the 
> wings, how do you
> > brace everything?
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Nick Scholtes 
> <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
> > >
> > > KitFoxers!
> > >
> > > Hi, my next question revolves around bracing the wings 
> once they're
> > > folded.  The person that is selling the Kitfox IV-1050 
> that I looked at
> is
> > > not the builder, and he has never folded the wings, so 
> when he and I
> > > folded them it was a first-time for both of us.  Once 
> folded, he brought
> > > out three pieces of steel tubing that supposedly held the 
> wings once
> they
> > > were folded.  One of the pieces of steel tubing clearly 
> went from a tang
> > > on the fuselage near the fin to a tang on the wing, but 
> there was only
> one
> > > of these tubes (the other must've gotten lost over the 
> years).  The
> other
> > > two steel tubes were much longer, but we had no clue as 
> to what they
> were
> > > for.
> > > Bruce Lina from this list sent me a great "Wing Folding 
> Checklist" that
> I
> > > used to help learn the folding procedure.  In that 
> procedure, it talks
> > > about a "tail bra", "tail tow braces", "forward tow 
> brace", and other
> > > things that weren't clear.  So, can anyone send a few 
> photos of what all
> > > these things are, and how they are installed, when a 
> KitFox IV is all
> > > folded-up and buttoned-up and ready to travel?
> > >
> > > Thanks very much!
> > >
> > > Nick Scholtes
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


________________________________  Message 25  ____________________________________


Time: 07:31:04 PM PST US
From: "Frank Lenzotti Jr." <varykino@webtv.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Where can I get a Kitfox V POH

I just bought a Kitfox V with a 912s and I don't know a thing about how t
o fly it (or even fire it up.) 

The seller was uninformed too but he did start it and we taxied it. Other
 than that he and I did manage to get the wings folded for trailering but
 I'm not confident I could unfold them without forgetting something.

I thought looking at a POH would be a good place to start. Can anyone hel
p me here? And are there other resources I can consult to learn more abou
t my new baby?

Frank (New to Kitfox)


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD><META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=is
o-8859-1"></HEAD>
<BODY>
<div style='padding:0 0 10px 0'><font face='font-family:segoe tv,Aria
l,Verdana'>I just bought a Kitfox V with a 912s and I don't know a thing 
about how to fly it (or even fire it up.) <br><br>The seller was uninform
ed too but he did start it and we taxied it. Other than that he and I did
 manage to get the wings folded for trailering but I'm not confident I co
uld unfold them without forgetting something.<br><br>I thought looking at
 a POH would be a good place to start. Can anyone help me here? And are t
here other resources I can consult to learn more about my new baby?<br><b
r>Frank (New to Kitfox)</font></div>


<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">


</b></font></pre></body></html>

________________________________  Message 26  ____________________________________


Time: 08:23:22 PM PST US
From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>

Guy I hope you have your "passenger" seat belted in well.  I had 5 50lb bags 
in my Avid to get gross.  Stalls were exciting with the load.  Ron NB Ore


>From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582  numbers
>Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:55:43 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
>At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
>>Were you able to get your off the ground better now ?
>
>Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of 
>Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm 
>between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. 
>(Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I 
>reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my stall 
>speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on was 40 and 
>31, respectively.
>
>I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift the 
>tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 over 
>stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't remember, 
>the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff is much 
>shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right at stall 
>speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty day. What are 
>you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs?
>
>
>Guy Buchanan
>K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip  http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip


________________________________  Message 27  ____________________________________


Time: 08:34:08 PM PST US
From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>

Lowell I think I've heard the term Riblett airfoil for the latter style.  
Ron NB Ore (Speedster)


>From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:51:06 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Dave,
>
>The models I through III had an undercambered wing.  All models IV through 
>Series 7 use the same airfoil.  I guess in Avid parlence, the latter wouild 
>be considered  "Speedwings", although there is no designation as such in 
>the Kitfox vernacular.
>
>I scanned past posts and can't determine what you are flying.
>
>Lowell
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:15 PM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>>Guy,
>>
>>I forgot to ask,  is this a speedwing? If so that would explain a bit.
>>
>>We got together 2 Kitofxes and an Avid today for some videos.
>>I will try to get a few clips together.  That being said I thought about 
>>you when i did takeoff today with zero wind and stick neutral and it flew 
>>off the ground in about 200 to 250 feet. solo and  by the time Iwas down 
>>the runway 1000 feet i was over 200 AGL already.  Plane was about 850 lb 
>>take off weight with me  solo.
>>Unforutnaly I will not be able to do it till next week unless i hit the 
>>Midnight video centre tonight .
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Anderson" 
>><janderson412@hotmail.com>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:49 PM
>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>>
>>
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" 
>>><janderson412@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my 
>>>Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight 
>>>back pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back 
>>>pressure it's ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed 
>>>builds to vy..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>From:  Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>>To:  kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject:  Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
>>>Date:  Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:55:43 -0700
>>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>>>
>>>At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:
>>>>Were you able to get your off the ground better now ?
>>>
>>>Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of 
>>>Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm 
>>>between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. 
>>>(Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I 
>>>reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my 
>>>stall speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on 
>>>was 40 and 31, respectively.
>>>
>>>I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift 
>>>the tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 
>>>over stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't 
>>>remember, the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff 
>>>is much shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right 
>>>at stall speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty day. 
>>>What are you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs?
>>>
>>>
>>>Guy Buchanan
>>>K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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________________________________  Message 28  ____________________________________


Time: 09:11:39 PM PST US
From: "Jerry" <vcmi@lewiston.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flight checklist

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jerry" <vcmi@lewiston.com>

I would like a copy of the POH.  Jerry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flight checklist


> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Dwight,
>
> I have a Kitfox  2 POH  it about 1.2 megs   --- let me know if you want it 
> mailed to you or i can post a link for it if you let me know for download.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "dwight purdy" <dpurdy@comteck.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:23 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: flight checklist
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
>>
>>   Have a friend not on the list with a model ll wanting a checklist 
>> before his first flight.
>>   I know there were a few on the list in the last year or so. Could 
>> someone help me out?  Is there another way to get to the most recent 
>> archives?
>>
>> dwight
>>
>> -- 
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
>