Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:08 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 vs. Handling of IV-1200 (Dave G.)
2. 04:46 AM - Correction (Bob Unternaehrer)
3. 08:17 AM - Viewing Photos Posted by List Members (Don W. McIntosh)
4. 08:18 AM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Guy Buchanan)
5. 08:18 AM - Re: Where can I get a Kitfox V POH (Guy Buchanan)
6. 08:18 AM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Guy Buchanan)
7. 08:18 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace everything? (Guy Buchanan)
8. 08:18 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 vs. Handling of IV-1200 (Guy Buchanan)
9. 08:18 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox, How to get parts to do some modifications? (Guy Buchanan)
10. 08:19 AM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Guy Buchanan)
11. 08:33 AM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Dave)
12. 08:37 AM - Re: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members (Dave)
13. 08:47 AM - EDIT ---- Re: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members (Dave)
14. 08:49 AM - Alodine spar (Dave G.)
15. 09:02 AM - Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace (Richard Rabbers)
16. 09:06 AM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Guy Buchanan)
17. 09:07 AM - Re: EDIT ---- Re: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members (Dave)
18. 09:46 AM - Re: EDIT ---- Re: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members (Matt Dralle)
19. 09:55 AM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Dave)
20. 10:10 AM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Dave)
21. 10:45 AM - Adverse yaw (Michel Verheughe)
22. 12:44 PM - Re: Adverse yaw (Aerobatics@aol.com)
23. 01:35 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (Guy Buchanan)
24. 02:10 PM - Re: Adverse yaw (Michel Verheughe)
25. 02:56 PM - Re: Alodine spar (Guy Buchanan)
26. 03:05 PM - Re: Annual on Kitfox III (RichWill)
27. 03:06 PM - Re: Guy -- 582 numbers (John Anderson)
28. 03:20 PM - Re: Alodine spar (John Anderson)
29. 03:35 PM - Re: Adverse yaw my bad explaination... (Aerobatics@aol.com)
30. 06:53 PM - [ Steven M. Magdic ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
31. 10:55 PM - NSI Manuals and other Materials (Michael Couillard)
32. 11:04 PM - Carb sockets (Kaufjm@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 |
vs. Handling of IV-1200
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
My first flight in anything other than a Cessna was in a Challenger I was
considering buying. If you feel the Kitfox is a little under-ruddered, look
up a Challenger II owner. At first I was completely lost, the Challenger is
a rudder controlled aircraft , the adverse yaw is so pronounced that if you
carefully apply full left aileron and ignore the rudder (as you may do on
the Cessna) you will experience a level turn to the right. It took a short
while to start to coordinate properly. On landing the rudder is very active
on the Challenger. On the Kitfox, I expect a more conventional use of the
rudder but it should likely still be far more active than on the Cessna
trainer I currently rent.
Message 2
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Correction, I think the larger tail may have come about earlier,
probably 92 or 93.
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilocom@mcmsys.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Viewing Photos Posted by List Members |
I hate to admit this, but I finally found the answer I believe Howard
and several of us were looking for back a few weeks ago. I ACTUALLY
scanned the FAQ's that Matt sends out on a regular basis and it states
that pictures for Digest Members will be stripped and sent to the Web
Forum Site. I knew I had looked at some of the pictures before, but
could not remember where. It has nothing to do with computer settings as
was discussed by the list. Just go to the website, find the topic
(unfortunately the website is organized a little differently than the
digest format, but easy enough, none the less) and scroll down to the
message that has the photo attached. Each message that has any photos
displays a paperclip (just as it should!)
See photos at: http://forums.matronics.com
<http://forums.matronics.com/> then click on the Kitfox list.
Don McIntosh
don@contractorsnorthwest.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 08:22 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>Guy I hope you have your "passenger" seat belted in well.
Not near well enough! I did stalls, but I won't do spins or accelerated
stalls with him in!
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Where can I get a Kitfox V POH |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:30 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>I thought looking at a POH would be a good place to start. Can anyone help
>me here? And are there other resources I can consult to learn more about
>my new baby?
John McBean at Kitfox LLC can probably get the PoH. I highly recommend
reading "Stick and Rudder" and Ed Downs' book "How to Fly a Kitfox". Both
available at various places on line.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 02:15 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>I forgot to ask, is this a speedwing? If so that would explain a bit.
Well, it's a IV, so it has the flat bottom wing. But it's not a Speedster
and so has the long wing, which should be good for take-off distance.
Yesterday I took off at 1175# at 1500' and 70F and it took about 600'.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you |
brace everything?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:17 AM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>Bruce Lina from this list sent me a great "Wing Folding Checklist" that
>I used to help learn the folding procedure. In that procedure, it talks
>about a "tail bra", "tail tow braces", "forward tow brace", and other
>things that weren't clear. So, can anyone send a few photos of what all
>these things are, and how they are installed, when a KitFox IV is all
>folded-up and buttoned-up and ready to travel?
Tail bra - Skystar made a cover that dropped over the VS and rudder that
had pads on either side to brace the flaperons when folded against the VS.
It was optional.
Tail tow braces - You already found those. They connect from the bottom VS
leading edge to the rear strut wing attachment bracket and keep the wing
from rotating. (No vertical support.) I believe these were kit supplied.
Forward tow braces - I believe these are strictly custom. I made a set of
folding braces that go from the fuselage strut attachment to the "outer"
wing spar and inboard to the inner wing spar. They support the outer spar
vertically when folded. The outboard component of the load is sheared by
the inboard spar attach bolt, since I didn't want to be pulling the inboard
rib apart. I found, when folding with fuel, that the forward spar sagged
noticeably under the fuel load.
Nick, did you say where you were? There may be others close to you who can
help.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a KitFox, First Question: Handling of IV-1050 |
vs. Handling of IV-1200
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:16 AM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>I was very "unimpressed" with how the IV-1050 handled in yaw, it sure
>seems to lack yaw stability.
My IV has very good authority to the rudder; has adverse yaw roughly
equivalent to a Decathlon, (much more than a 172,) and has a "dead band" in
the middle where it will fly sideways +/- 2 degrees of yaw. I am a neophyte
and have had no trouble flying straight or landing in what I consider
"challenging" conditions.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a KitFox, How to get parts to do some modifications? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:17 AM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>So, the question is, are there "kits" available to install the electric
>trim or the dual brakes, and if so, where are they offered?
Rans, (and ACS,) sells a "kit" to install a manual trim on their S-12. I am
adapting that kit for a manual trim on my plane. It definitely requires
some engineering.
>How hard is it to add the electric trim? The electric part is easy for
>me (I'm an electrical engineer), but I don't know how hard it would be
>to modify the elevator, etc.
Adding electric the "right" way:
1. Strip one half the elevator.
2. Fabricate trim tab.
3. Cut and weld elevator to fit tab.
4. Weld in a bracket or support for the servo.
5. Install and wire the servo. (You know how to do that.)
6. Attach the tab using piano hinge.
7. Check it all out to make sure it works. (I'd guess 10 degrees up and 40
degrees down, depending on size.)
8. Re-cover the elevator, including access for the servo and hardware.
9. Paint and trim.
Now you could do all of that externally, including a bubble for the servo,
but you'd still have attachment problems, particularly since the elevator
is made from very small tubing.
Guy
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 01:49 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my
>Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight back
>pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back pressure it's
>ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed builds to vy..
Thanks John. I've tried this and the only problem I have with it is that
I'm airborne very close to stall speed. Once I had the aircraft settle back
to the runway after it lifted off during a gust. I basically had to
three-point a landing while taking off; very disconcerting. Am I holding
the tail too low?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Guy, Well 600 feet is better than your 900 feet results but you got
something seriously wrong to not be flying sooner.
I have got some vidoes I am working on for you to show you how it should
work.
I tried yesterday taking off with stick neutral and it flew off in 3 point
configuration at about 40 IAS in under 250 feet solo 955 ASL .
Have you tried it this way ? And what prop are you using and what static
RPM do you get ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 02:15 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>>I forgot to ask, is this a speedwing? If so that would explain a bit.
>
> Well, it's a IV, so it has the flat bottom wing. But it's not a Speedster
> and so has the long wing, which should be good for take-off distance.
> Yesterday I took off at 1175# at 1500' and 70F and it took about 600'.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members |
Some more pics here
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kitfox-list.html#Top
scrolll down
----- Original Message -----
From: Don W. McIntosh
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members
I hate to admit this, but I finally found the answer I believe Howard
and several of us were looking for back a few weeks ago. I ACTUALLY
scanned the FAQ's that Matt sends out on a regular basis and it states
that pictures for Digest Members will be stripped and sent to the Web
Forum Site. I knew I had looked at some of the pictures before, but
could not remember where. It has nothing to do with computer settings as
was discussed by the list. Just go to the website, find the topic
(unfortunately the website is organized a little differently than the
digest format, but easy enough, none the less) and scroll down to the
message that has the photo attached. Each message that has any photos
displays a paperclip (just as it should!)
See photos at:
Don McIntosh
don@contractorsnorthwest.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members |
Sorry -- for got the link
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kitfox-list.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members
Some more pics here
scrolll down
----- Original Message -----
From: Don W. McIntosh
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members
I hate to admit this, but I finally found the answer I believe
Howard and several of us were looking for back a few weeks ago. I
ACTUALLY scanned the FAQ's that Matt sends out on a regular basis and it
states that pictures for Digest Members will be stripped and sent to the
Web Forum Site. I knew I had looked at some of the pictures before, but
could not remember where. It has nothing to do with computer settings as
was discussed by the list. Just go to the website, find the topic
(unfortunately the website is organized a little differently than the
digest format, but easy enough, none the less) and scroll down to the
message that has the photo attached. Each message that has any photos
displays a paperclip (just as it should!)
See photos at:
Don McIntosh
don@contractorsnorthwest.com
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
I am looking at corrosion resistance on My new spars. I have some alodine
from the local auto parts store. Clearly the instructions assume I will
simply slosh some of this back and forth inside the tube. Other instructions
I have read about alodine seem to want some fairly aggressive scrubbing
first. How have you done it? Thanks.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a KitFox: When folding the wings, how do you brace |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" <rira1950@yahoo.com>
> Tail tow braces - You already found those. They connect from the bottom VS
> leading edge to the rear strut wing attachment bracket and keep the wing
> from rotating.
Warning based on experience!!
Add redundency of some sort to the tail (wing) bracing, safety wire, short leash,
etc.
............ imagine looking in the rear view mirror and watching a wing unfold
(on your trailered Kitfox)..... at night!
It was, more or less OK (far from ideal) until I exited the road, slowed, the angle
of the road increased slightly.
Thank the Gnomes there were no poles along side before I was able to slowly come
to a stop!
This happened on my trip home after purchase. I felt very lucky!
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65498#65498
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 08:33 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote:
>Have you tried it this way ? And what prop are you using and what static
>RPM do you get ?
Yes, the 600' was three-point, though at 1175# and 70F. I have a 70" Warp
three blade set to 12 degrees at the tip and get about 6350 static. (I get
about 6700 WOT level airborne at 6400' DA.) I am worried that the 70" is
too large and is reducing my top speed, but I have to find some propeller
software to evaluate the possibility of trimming it.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members |
still nver posted WEIRD
I try again matronics.com/photoshare/kitfox-list.html#Top
matronics.com / photoshare / kitfox-list. html # top ---- TAKE
OUT SPACES ?
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: EDIT ---- Re: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List
Members
Sorry -- for got the link
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members
Some more pics here
scrolll down
----- Original Message -----
From: Don W. McIntosh
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members
I hate to admit this, but I finally found the answer I believe
Howard and several of us were looking for back a few weeks ago. I
ACTUALLY scanned the FAQ's that Matt sends out on a regular basis and it
states that pictures for Digest Members will be stripped and sent to the
Web Forum Site. I knew I had looked at some of the pictures before, but
could not remember where. It has nothing to do with computer settings as
was discussed by the list. Just go to the website, find the topic
(unfortunately the website is organized a little differently than the
digest format, but easy enough, none the less) and scroll down to the
message that has the photo attached. Each message that has any photos
displays a paperclip (just as it should!)
See photos at:
Don McIntosh
don@contractorsnorthwest.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Whoops, list filter bug! I think I've fixed it. This should be the complete clickable
link:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kitfox-list.html#top
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
At 09:06 AM 10/3/2006 Tuesday, you wrote:
>still nver posted WEIRD
>
>I try again
>
>matronics.com / photoshare / kitfox-list. html # top ---- TAKE OUT SPACES
?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:dave@cfisher.com>Dave
>To: <mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:47 AM
>Subject: EDIT ---- Re: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members
>
>Sorry -- for got the link
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:dave@cfisher.com>Dave
>To: <mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:36 AM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members
>
>Some more pics here
>
>scrolll down
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:don@contractorsnorthwest.com>Don W. McIntosh
>To: <mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:16 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Viewing Photos Posted by List Members
>
>I hate to admit this, but I finally found the answer I believe Howard and several
of us were looking for back a few weeks ago. I ACTUALLY scanned the FAQs that
Matt sends out on a regular basis and it states that pictures for Digest Members
will be stripped and sent to the Web Forum Site. I knew I had looked at
some of the pictures before, but could not remember where. It has nothing to
do with computer settings as was discussed by the list. Just go to the website,
find the topic (unfortunately the website is organized a little differently
than the digest format, but easy enough, none the less) and scroll down to the
message that has the photo attached. Each message that has any photos displays
a paperclip (just as it should!)
>
>See photos at:
>
>
>
>Don McIntosh
>
><mailto:don@contractorsnorthwest.com>don@contractorsnorthwest.com
>
>
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sounds good Guy,
I have a 68 inch warp 3 blade --ratio is 3 to 1 and static i am about
6100 and 6800 wot
cruise 88- 89 mph via gps ( asi reads about 105 or so lol - no
external static port)
Check back soon, I just putting together some movie clips now ...........
and I will upload to a server soon
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 08:33 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote:
>>Have you tried it this way ? And what prop are you using and what static
>>RPM do you get ?
>
> Yes, the 600' was three-point, though at 1175# and 70F. I have a 70" Warp
> three blade set to 12 degrees at the tip and get about 6350 static. (I get
> about 6700 WOT level airborne at 6400' DA.) I am worried that the 70" is
> too large and is reducing my top speed, but I have to find some propeller
> software to evaluate the possibility of trimming it.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
OK first plane is a Kitfox IV 582
Second one is a Raven --aka Kitfox 1 clone 503 single carb
Third one is a Avid flyer 618
Sorry for the quality but it gives you an indication of the Take offs , we
did these for you so you can see that 600 foot take offs are not acceptable
< VERY BIG GRIN >
The blue avid take off gets cut out but I was standing at near the 200 foot
mark and he takes 400 feet + to get off but climbs well once off as you
will see in video.
The take off run on the first two is 200 feet to about the edge of the
taxiway. so you will see just past that is about the 250 feet and beyond
that is the windsock hanging vertical -- no wind but hard to see.
The White and blue Raven is a 84 year old man that he scratch built. .
Temp was about 60 F elevation 955 asl wind calm
Download it here http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/coffeebreak.wmv
about 4.6 meg. about 30 seconds on my highspeed -on dialup i wouldguess
about 15 to 20 mins
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 08:33 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote:
>>Have you tried it this way ? And what prop are you using and what static
>>RPM do you get ?
>
> Yes, the 600' was three-point, though at 1175# and 70F. I have a 70" Warp
> three blade set to 12 degrees at the tip and get about 6350 static. (I get
> about 6700 WOT level airborne at 6400' DA.) I am worried that the 70" is
> too large and is reducing my top speed, but I have to find some propeller
> software to evaluate the possibility of trimming it.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Friends, I read that you are talking about the adverse yaw of different
aircraft.
When I first met my Kitfox, I had only a few hours with an instructor.
She smiled at me and I smiled back and decided to make a honest
aircraft of her. As soon as she became mine, and before I found a
taildragger instructor, I was told, from different holds, that she was
a difficult lady, certainly not a beginner's plane. Easy to ground
loop, ugly stall characteristics and much adverse yaw; the list was
long.
Yet, after I started flying her with an instructor, then later alone, I
found her very gentle and our love story is now history.
I fly a Kitfox 3. It has the old symmetrical flaperon displacement.
When I take her up, I need a bit of right-hand pedal to counter the
prop effect. But I think it's the same for all single engine aircraft,
isn't it? And when I turn gently ... I don't need any rudder, really.
Only when I take her a bit hard, e.g. doing very square traffic
pattern, and I swing her in a sharp 45 degrees bank to a 90 degrees
turn, do I need to put her on track with the pedals. And she seems to
enjoy it.
Maybe it's a question of semantic but the word "adverse" is, in my
humble opinion, not appropriate for a Kitfox, even a model 3. My gal is
all too willingly!
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
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It really depends on which model and where the CG is. The center of side
area is most forward on the model 1 and 2. In fact, in this persons opinion,
just a bit too far forward, and sure enough, as time passed, with longer and
larger fin/rudders were added, this was improved dramatically, starting with
the model 3.
I have flown a 2, 4 and 5. There are huge differences. I own a KF 2 and by
sealing the rudder and a forward CG, its not bad, yet it still has quite a
bit of adverse yaw. Before sealing rudder, if I just gave a bit of aileron,
it would yaw strongly the wrong way... Just needed to be learned and I dont
think about it any more. But know it BEFORE your first flight.
I might add, differential aileron throws ( model 4 onwards I believe)
really helps a lot..
There is a benefit of the forward aerodynamic center, that makes for a VERY
effective rudder, where as the #5 has a large fin/rudder but very stiff.
i.e. hard to displace. for obvious reasons...
Everything is a compromise!
Dave
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:55 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote:
>cruise 88- 89 mph via gps ( asi reads about 105 or so lol - no
>external static port)
Sigh. I cruise right around 80 at 5800 rpm. That's one reason I was
wondering if the prop was too big. I wondered if I was having to flatten it
to keep the loading down because of the big disk, and if the result was
that I had low top end.
It also looks like you're a lot less draggy than I am. (Lower static,
higher WOT rpm.) I don't have the radiator cowled or a cowl flap on the
cowl exhaust. I also don't have fairings on the gas caps or on the strut
ends. Other than that I'm pretty fair.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Oct 3, 2006, at 9:43 PM, Aerobatics@aol.com wrote:
> There is a benefit of the forward aerodynamic center, that makes for a
> VERY effective rudder
This is very interesting, Dave, unfortunately I don't understand what
"forward aerodynamic center" is. Could you explain, please? Thanks in
advance.
Michel
PS: I also have gap-sealed rudder.
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Alodine spar |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 08:49 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote:
>Clearly the instructions assume I will
>simply slosh some of this back and forth inside the tube. Other instructions
>I have read about alodine seem to want some fairly aggressive scrubbing
>first. How have you done it?
I always use Metl-Prep before Alodine. It's available at ACS and it
chemically etches the aluminum.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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| Subject: | Re: Annual on Kitfox III |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RichWill" <rwill1@adelphia.net>
Andrew,
I didn't get your post until today... Just got back from 3 weeks in Thailand and
Malaysia...work!
I will call on cell, but now suspect you are back in JAK...
Rich
--------
Semper Fi
15 ITT
G2 HqCo HqBn
1st MarDiv
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65573#65573
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| Subject: | Re: Guy -- 582 numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Bearing in mind we are talking about short t/off? The idea in this case is
to get the a/c airborne as soon as possible. The acceleration rate is better
with wheels unstuck so the aim is to get them (wheels) just inches above
the ground and just hold it there. Yes try lifting the tail a tad more then
but not too much, the idea being to maintain a high angle of attack, when it
becomes airborne slowly lower the nose as the speed builds. Stick movements
must be very subtle when the aircraft is in the mode. Are you using flap at
all. ~j~
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 01:49 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my
>Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight back
>pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back pressure it's
>ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed builds to vy..
Thanks John. I've tried this and the only problem I have with it is that I'm
airborne very close to stall speed. Once I had the aircraft settle back to
the runway after it lifted off during a gust. I basically had to three-point
a landing while taking off; very disconcerting. Am I holding the tail too
low?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
_________________________________________________________________
Become a fitness fanatic @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/health
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
You need to slightly scuff the surface first. I used a wod of scotch bright
and dragged it back and forth with a light rope, then plug one end and slosh
out with the alodine.
From: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Alodine spar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
I am looking at corrosion resistance on My new spars. I have some alodine
from the local auto parts store. Clearly the instructions assume I will
simply slosh some of this back and forth inside the tube. Other instructions
I have read about alodine seem to want some fairly aggressive scrubbing
first. How have you done it? Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
Discover fun and games at @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/kids
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Adverse yaw my bad explaination... |
In a message dated 10/3/2006 4:12:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
michel@online.no writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Oct 3, 2006, at 9:43 PM, Aerobatics@aol.com wrote:
> There is a benefit of the forward aerodynamic center, that makes for a
> VERY effective rudder
This is very interesting, Dave, unfortunately I don't understand what
"forward aerodynamic center" is. Could you explain, please? Thanks in
advance.
Michel
PS: I also have gap-sealed rudder.
do not archive
An arrow keeps straight because of fins on one end and a weight at another.
Center of mass ahead of center of area. There is an optimum position for
best flight of an arrow.... with that in mind.... If you were to look at a
side view of your plane including wheels spinner etc, there is a center of
side area . A very simple, yet very effective way of finding that center is to
cut a cardboard outline of your plane and find where it balances and
poof.... center of side area.. Now like your CG for your wing the same applies
to side area. The CG must be ahead of center of side area .... and by how
much determines strongly on your yaw stability.... which has an effect on
your planes ability to dampen a yaw displacement.... (which could have been
initiated by adverse yaw from ailerons)
Now placing the CG way ahead of center of side area takes away from rudder
authority. So we must look at where the CG will be for the wing and design
the "side" accordingly. Note that the rudder and the KF2 is small, but VERY
effective, because the Center of side area and CG are close... yet in the KF5
the rudder is much larger, but ... well you know the rest!
That' is why moving CG forward on you older model KF helps in Yaw...........
We wont even talk about what happens when you add floats!
Best,
Dave
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| Subject: | [ Steven M. Magdic ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Steven M. Magdic <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Lists: Kitfox-List
Subject: Model 3 Rudder Pedal Weldment Failure
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steve.magdic@1psg.com.10.03.2006/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
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o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
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| Subject: | NSI Manuals and other Materials |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Couillard" <couillard1@msn.com>
Hi folks:
I recently made a commitment to buy an NSI EA-81-130-TTBI package from list
member Jim Crowder: firewall forward package for Kitfox 5 taildragger with
turbo and CAP 140 Warp Drive Prop.
I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the right direction.
I'm looking for additional NSI manuals that would cover this installation
(engine, prop, turbo, ignition system, and any other manuals that
they published) plus any other resources that might be available (NSI or
not) that
would be a good resource to have for daily maintenance, overhauls, etc.
Here's what I already have [from NSI through Jim], so I don't cause any
unnecessary work for anyone:
Kitfox Vixen Firewall Installation Instructions
Kitfox Vixen Cooling System and Control Cable Instructions
Kitfox Vixen Cowling Installation Instructions
CAP 140 Cockpit Adjustable Prop Installation/Maintenance/Operators Manual
[this is addressed to Rotax 912/914; don't know if there's another Manual I
need for the EA-81 application?]
CAP 140 Digital Propeller Pitch Gauge Installation/Maintenance/Operators
Manual [this is addressed to Rotax 912/914; don't know if there's another
Manual I need for the EA-81 application?]
Kitfox Vixen Engine Mounting Instructions
Kitfox Vixen Gear Reduction Drive Installation Manual
Most specifically I don't have an engine Operations or Maintenance manual
for this product. Don't know if such a thing exists from NSI. Or if I
should just look for another maintenance manual like a Chiltons? Be nice to
have something that explains basic operation of the engine, like an owner's
manual/operations manual if NSI produced one.
Any other pertinent info/publications would be much appreciated. I'm happy
to cover copy, mailing and other costs for your time. Thanks much! I'm
also quite willing to share what I have if any of you using this package
have a need. Just let me know.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Mike Couillard
KF 5 TD, NSI Turbo (someday it will fly!)
Message 32
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Sorry I missed the address for the USA made Rotax carb replacement sockets.
Thanks.
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