---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/09/06: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:46 AM - Re: Wheelers (Rex Shaw) 2. 04:35 AM - Re: Seat pan covering (tc9008@aol.com) 3. 07:38 AM - Member List (Lowell Fitt) 4. 08:45 AM - Re: Member List (Guy Buchanan) 5. 09:07 AM - Re: Member List (Ted Palamarek) 6. 09:09 AM - Videos (Dave) 7. 09:25 AM - 912S (Kaufjm@AOL.COM) 8. 09:55 AM - Re: Videos (wingnut) 9. 11:33 AM - Re: Videos (kurt schrader) 10. 11:53 AM - Re: Watvliet, MI - Chili Hop Flyin (10/15/06) (Richard Rabbers) 11. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: Watvliet, MI - Chili Hop Flyin (10/15/06) (Lynn Matteson) 12. 01:52 PM - Wheel Landings - Lynn (Jose M. Toro) 13. 01:55 PM - Re: Watvliet, MI - Chili Hop Flyin (10/15/06) (Richard Rabbers) 14. 02:18 PM - Re: Videos (Guy Buchanan) 15. 02:38 PM - Re: Videos (wingnut) 16. 02:53 PM - Classes of aircraft WAS: Wheelers (Michel Verheughe) 17. 03:48 PM - props for Guy (Randy Daughenbaugh) 18. 04:55 PM - Re: props for Guy (Don Smythe) 19. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: Videos (Dave) 20. 05:47 PM - Re: NSI Manuals and other Materials (John Anderson) 21. 05:59 PM - Re: Videos (Dave) 22. 06:01 PM - Re: Member List (Herbert R Gottelt) 23. 06:13 PM - Re: props for Guy (Dave) 24. 06:52 PM - Re: Finger Strainer access on Series 7? (Dave and Diane) 25. 06:55 PM - Re: props for Guy (Mike Crutchlow) 26. 06:57 PM - Dual Electrical system (Dave and Diane) 27. 08:22 PM - Re: props for Guy (Guy Buchanan) 28. 08:22 PM - Re: props for Guy (Guy Buchanan) 29. 08:22 PM - Re: props for Guy (Guy Buchanan) 30. 09:05 PM - Re: Finger Strainer access on Series 7? (Grant Fluent) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:59 AM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheelers Hi ! Michel, I don't really know the difference except some one told me what we call ultralights were called microlights somewhere. I actually thought that was you but maybe not. Our governing body was called Australian Ultralight Federation until recently but is now called Recreational Aviation Australia. We are trying to drop the ultralight image that has a bad reputation for incidents and causes insurance problems. Here a microlight is a motorised hang glider or trike. [ not as in tricycle undercarriage. ] Our Kitfox's are Ultralights here if we use that terminology rather than recreational aircraft which is our new prefered name. Currently we are talking an MTOW of 544 Kg. We do have a class we call 95-10 that I think has an MTOW of 300 KG and a set wing loading, single seat etc. Tell me if you want more info or just more accurate info and I can probably find it and send it to you privately but I have no idea what the European standards are but I thought they were similar as we get some of their planes here. I know at times though some small changes are needed. Rex. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Seat pan covering From: tc9008@aol.com I used velcro strips Travis -----Original Message----- From: foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com Sent: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 11:14 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Seat pan covering --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" We are about to begin covering the fiberglass seat pan of our model 5 and have seen some other Kitfox seats where fabric was bonded to the seat pan near the edges and over the 'hump'. Any recommedations on what to use to glue the fabric in place? Joel Model 5 912 GTA CS prop Aerocomp amphibs _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:31 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: Member List Attached is the latest update of the list of members and what they are flying etc. I have had suggestions that we include occupations to round out the names. Also it has been suggested that we include builders as very few builders have responded to be included on the list. For me, and my understanding of the fleet, I would like to see empty wts. and maybe some performance numbers, i.e., climb and cruise. This could get big, but in my mind the bigger it is the more useful it will be to those building and thinking of building or buying. I was at Show and Shine last Saturday and next to my airplane, I posted an Idaho Division of Aeronotics map with dots on all the airports the group has flown to with some thumbnail pictures and that developed a lot of interest. Two guys called me later that evening interested in Kitfox - and this from a Hot Rod show with just a few airplanes for interest. If it is desired by a significant part of the group without some convincing negative feelings, I would be happy over the next few days - weeks to also cull out the e-mail addresses from those responding and add them too. Lowell ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:50 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Member List --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 07:36 AM 10/9/2006, you wrote: >Attached is the latest update of the list of members and what they are >flying etc. Very impressive Lowell. Thank you for taking the time to assemble this list. I will be happy to supply additional information; the only recommendation I have is that you be very specific regarding performance information, or else request the background behind the information. My Kitfox performance varies enormously between light/heavy, cold/hot, low/high. The spam cans use gross / sea level / standard temperature for all their baseline performance numbers; that would be ideal however I doubt very many people have these data. What do you think? Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:02 AM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Member List --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" Lowell Great list. My engine make is missing --- it is a 912UL. No problem with the suggestions and I don't have a problem with the E-Mail address being attached. Thanks Ted Palamarek DO NOT ARCHIVE <<<<<<>>>>>>>>> I would be happy over the next few days - weeks to also cull out the e-mail addresses from those responding and add them too. Lowell ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:32 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Kitfox-List: Videos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Hi Guy, What did you think of that video I posted last week ? I have been away, yet it has been downloaded a few hundred times and yet no one has responded I surely hope it will be of some help for you to get your Kitfox flying with excellent short field performance. I did that basically for you to show you how 3 other simular planes perform .. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Member List > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > > At 07:36 AM 10/9/2006, you wrote: >>Attached is the latest update of the list of members and what they are >>flying etc. > > Very impressive Lowell. Thank you for taking the time to assemble this > list. I will be happy to supply additional information; the only > recommendation I have is that you be very specific regarding performance > information, or else request the background behind the information. My > Kitfox performance varies enormously between light/heavy, cold/hot, > low/high. The spam cans use gross / sea level / standard temperature for > all their baseline performance numbers; that would be ideal however I > doubt very many people have these data. What do you think? > > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:49 AM PST US From: Kaufjm@AOL.COM Subject: Kitfox-List: 912S I have a couple of question, Is there anyway to test an ignition system, the coils,black boxes? This is a 912S. Seems that after I check my wires with an automotive style timing light just to see if the plug wires are firing, over half are not . Yes the engine is running rough. Is it possible to send the coils some where and have them checked? Jon ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:19 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Videos From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > What did you think of that video I posted last week ? Could you pleas post some details for the uninformed? Where would I download this video? -Luis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66764#66764 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:07 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Videos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Well Dave, If no one else says so, I liked them enough to keep on my computer. :-) I timed the takeoffs as best as I could to compare to mine, since I don't know the distances from your vid. My S-5 takes about 8 seconds to lift off normally. I haven't tried any really short field techniques yet. Mostly afraid my NSI will pull it over on its nose, if I push the power up too much before brake release. That 8 seconds puts me about where your first plane was in the vid and between the other 2. Couldn't really tell where the Avid lifted off due to the tree. Thanks for the vid, Kurt S. --- Dave wrote: > Hi Guy, > > What did you think of that video I posted last week? > I have been away, yet it has been downloaded a few > hundred times and yet no one has responded > I surely hope it will be of some help for you to get > your Kitfox flying with excellent short field > performance. > I did that basically for you to show you how 3 > other simular planes perform > Dave __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:36 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Watvliet, MI - Chili Hop Flyin (10/15/06) From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" Chili Hop - CANCELLED .......... due to forecasted weather and field condition. Maybe another time - great weather - same or another place. Sorry this didn't work out. I think we were up to 7 pilots (KF owners or interests) and 6 Kitfoxes. Enjoy some Chili at home... - let's keep trying for a meet-up ..... -------------------------------------------- I stopped by Riverside Airport in Jenision, MI, (Bill Willyard's home base) just East of Grand Rapids, on an unplanned drive late last week.... I asked if Bill might be around. An instructor said.... Yeh, I know who your talking about.. WHAT a BEAUTIFUL airplane he has! ... It was a beautiful day Bill. Sorry I missed you. do not archive -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66786#66786 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Watvliet, MI - Chili Hop Flyin (10/15/06) From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Damn! Here I was hoping to "come on down" and get gassy on some of the northern chili (you're about 2 minutes north of me geographically) and cider. And of course POSSIBLY show off my temporary SP license, if that happens this week. Lynn do not archive On Monday, October 9, 2006, at 02:52 PM, Richard Rabbers wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" > > > Chili Hop - CANCELLED > .......... due to forecasted weather and field condition. > Maybe another time - great weather - same or another place. > > Sorry this didn't work out. > I think we were up to 7 pilots (KF owners or interests) and 6 Kitfoxes. > > Enjoy some Chili at home... > - let's keep trying for a meet-up ..... > -------------------------------------------- > I stopped by Riverside Airport in Jenision, MI, (Bill Willyard's home > base) just East of Grand Rapids, on an unplanned drive late last > week.... I asked if Bill might be around. An instructor said.... Yeh, > I know who your talking about.. WHAT a BEAUTIFUL airplane he has! > > ... It was a beautiful day Bill. Sorry I missed you. > > do not archive > > -------- > Richard in SW Michigan > Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66786#66786 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:07 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheel Landings - Lynn --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Lynn: You mentioned in your e-mail that you haven't get training on wheel landings from your instructor. What will happen if you are asked to do a wheel landing during your check ride this week? Your instructor should have provide you that training before the endorsement. For some reason that I don't understand, some TD pilots avoid wheel landings and that include CFIs. There is nothing wrong with wheel landings! As a matter of fact, on a plane with the weight of a Kitfox IV, it may happen that one day you need to land in strong, cross-wind, and a wheel landing is the ONLY right way to do that landing. Believe me, if the model II can handle strong cross wind, the model IV with the bigger rudder can do it better. My recommendation is that, if your CFI avoids providing that kind of training, get another CFI. >From you previous postings, I can tell that you will do great in your check ride, as long as you are not asked to perform a wheel landing (hope the DPE is not following this list). Good luck in your checkride, will be waiting for the good new! Jose __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:53 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Watvliet, MI - Chili Hop Flyin (10/15/06) From: "Richard Rabbers" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Rabbers" > show off my temporary SP license You're clearly motivated Lynn. Thanks for sharing your story as you near the mark. Sorry this carrot's gone. I know the cheers will fly when you do, with your new paperwork! If we could manage to push back winter just a week! or............ just relay your news and we'll strike up the band. If you feel like flying..(ha).. there's a known good dry grass (sand and good drainage) at Newman's (4NO) just NW of Kalamazoo. A chapter 221 member has a house and hanger there ... so that's a possibility or maybe your new book has some other places. If you want some pavement practice... BEH is always an option. ... or some nice day I'll head over your way.... Hey? is you're friends seaplane going to see the water before it freezes? do not archive -------- Richard in SW Michigan Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66797#66797 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:05 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Videos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 09:09 AM 10/9/2006, you wrote: >What did you think of that video I posted last week ? I liked the video, if only because it's great to see Kitfox's in action! I just got back to minimum weight configuration, after doing all my gross weight testing. I like Kurt's idea of comparing timing so I think I'll give that a try. I went out and paced the field to make sure I wasn't screwed up in my calculations and re-assured myself that there's no way I'm getting off in 200' without a serious headwind or some flaps or both; and you're doing it on grass! I downloaded the JC Propeller software to see if I could optimize my prop and it wants me to increase my pitch to 13 degrees at the tip so I may try that. That's certainly not going to decrease my takeoff roll, though it might increase my cruise. One thing that's strange, though, is that the software doesn't think I should have much of a speed variation between a cruise at 65hp / 6500rpm and 58hp / 5800rpm. To me the variation should be linear with rpm, so that if I run 92mph at 6500 I will see 82mph at 5800. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:41 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Videos From: "wingnut" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" Got to see the video in question by looking up Dave's history. Very cool. Can't wait to try out some grass fields in my area. [/quote] To me the variation should be linear with rpm, so that if I run 92mph at 6500 I will see 82mph at 5800.[/quote] Perhapse this is because wind resistance is not linear with speed. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66802#66802 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:16 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Classes of aircraft WAS: Wheelers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe On Oct 10, 2006, at 2:16 AM, Rex Shaw wrote: > Currently we are talking an MTOW of 544 Kg. Gosh, what a mix-up of different classes, Rex! Yes, utralight (a.k.a. UL or ULM, in Europe) is now called microlights. At least, according to the European Microlight Federation: http://www.emf.nanco.no/english/Statutes_EMF_english.htm This is crazy, my Kitfox was built Experimental, thus requiring a PPL certificate. Once registered as an Ultralight, I needed ... to wear a helmet. If the builder and first owner of the plane wishes now to fly it again ... he will need to wear the helmet and spend at least 5 hours with an utralight instructor! While Spain has the same ultralight rule as Norway, I can't rent one there (I already asked), nor any other European countries, I guess. Now, can I remove my helmet when I cross the nearby Swedish border? Man, do we need international conventions or what? :-) Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:57 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: Kitfox-List: props for Guy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Guy, Just a caution. Be sure that you review your "abort takeoff" procedure prior to flying after you add pitch. I may be all wet, because I haven't been following this thread too closely and don't know how big an increase the 13 degrees is. But I feel it is possible that it will really reduce your climb rate. Just be ready. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Videos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 09:09 AM 10/9/2006, you wrote: >What did you think of that video I posted last week ? I liked the video, if only because it's great to see Kitfox's in action! I just got back to minimum weight configuration, after doing all my gross weight testing. I like Kurt's idea of comparing timing so I think I'll give that a try. I went out and paced the field to make sure I wasn't screwed up in my calculations and re-assured myself that there's no way I'm getting off in 200' without a serious headwind or some flaps or both; and you're doing it on grass! I downloaded the JC Propeller software to see if I could optimize my prop and it wants me to increase my pitch to 13 degrees at the tip so I may try that. That's certainly not going to decrease my takeoff roll, though it might increase my cruise. One thing that's strange, though, is that the software doesn't think I should have much of a speed variation between a cruise at 65hp / 6500rpm and 58hp / 5800rpm. To me the variation should be linear with rpm, so that if I run 92mph at 6500 I will see 82mph at 5800. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:07 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: props for Guy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" Guy, I haven't followed this thread too close either but try this, forget all there is about getting off the ground in 200' or whatever....Adjust the prop so that you get 6799 (short of 6800 max) RPM's in level flight with full throttle. You will have to hold some forward stick when you put in full throttle to get that level flight. Just hold that full throttle for a short time (less than 1 min) until you have everything stabilized out. You want to have near 6800 RPM and EGT's running about 1150 ball park. Re jet or re pitch to get those numbers. This is the procedure that I have used and heard about for the last many years. The name of the game is be nice to your engine and not try for 5 more MPH or pick up 100' climb rate. What you get is what you get..... Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- > I downloaded the JC Propeller software to see if I could optimize my prop > and it wants me to increase my pitch to 13 degrees at the tip so I may try > that. That's certainly not going to decrease my takeoff roll, though it > might increase my cruise. One thing that's strange, though, is that the > software doesn't think I should have much of a speed variation between a > cruise at 65hp / 6500rpm and 58hp / 5800rpm. To me the variation should be > linear with rpm, so that if I run 92mph at 6500 I will see 82mph at 5800. > > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:45 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Videos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Hi , I put a link up last week of a video we did of three Planes last week here http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/coffeebreak.wmv Here is original mesage.......... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Guy -- 582 numbers > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" > > OK first plane is a Kitfox IV 582 > Second one is a Raven --aka Kitfox 1 clone 503 single carb > Third one is a Avid flyer 618 > > Sorry for the quality but it gives you an indication of the Take offs , we > did these for you so you can see that 600 foot take offs are not > acceptable > < VERY BIG GRIN > > The blue avid take off gets cut out but I was standing at near the 200 > foot > mark and he takes 400 feet + to get off but climbs well once off as you > will see in video. > The take off run on the first two is 200 feet to about the edge of the > taxiway. so you will see just past that is about the 250 feet and beyond > that is the windsock hanging vertical -- no wind but hard to see. > > The White and blue Raven is a 84 year old man that he scratch built. . > Temp was about 60 F elevation 955 asl wind calm > > Download it here http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/coffeebreak.wmv > about 4.6 meg. about 30 seconds on my highspeed -on dialup i > wouldguess > about 15 to 20 mins > > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "wingnut" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Videos > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" > > >> What did you think of that video I posted last week ? > > > Could you pleas post some details for the uninformed? Where would I > download this video? > > -Luis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66764#66764 > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:23 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Manuals and other Materials --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" Service Manual Supplement. EA81 Turbo EFI. Publication # G125BEA Issued Feb 1983 Fuji Heavy Industries Pub. M-6.2 From: kurt schrader Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Manuals and other Materials --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I asked for the book on the 84 Soob Brat. It had a turbo, so the book has a very small turbo reference to it. Mine is not EFI, so I did not look for it. I am not home now, so I can not give more info, but maybe that will help. Kurt S. S-5 --- John Anderson wrote: >Yes the Haynes is great but does not cover the EFI >Turbo engine. There is a >suppliment manual you can get from Subaru, well they >produced one and might still be available. __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @ http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:21 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Videos --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Guy, I get about 6100 static and 6800 WOT I went for breakfast this am about 45 mins each way right near Sarnia, Ontario -- ( That is Across River from Port Huron, Michigan. ) I average about 86-87 mph TAS at 5800 rpm and that about 18 litres a hour ( about 4.5 US gals) I Took off in 5 to 7 knot head wind and was airbourne in about 75 to 100 feet solo with 12 gals gas on board . I don't think a higher static rpm will improve much but even if it did then you might be too fine in cruise ands have to deal with high EGTs.... Sure you can play with jetting etc but the gain will be small. I will try to get some more videos done later this fall and if we get enough guy to do it maybe make a deent clip on many kitfoxes flying. ? Dave .. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:17 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Videos > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan > > At 09:09 AM 10/9/2006, you wrote: >>What did you think of that video I posted last week ? > > I liked the video, if only because it's great to see Kitfox's in action! > > I just got back to minimum weight configuration, after doing all my gross > weight testing. I like Kurt's idea of comparing timing so I think I'll > give that a try. I went out and paced the field to make sure I wasn't > screwed up in my calculations and re-assured myself that there's no way > I'm getting off in 200' without a serious headwind or some flaps or both; > and you're doing it on grass! > > I downloaded the JC Propeller software to see if I could optimize my prop > and it wants me to increase my pitch to 13 degrees at the tip so I may try > that. That's certainly not going to decrease my takeoff roll, though it > might increase my cruise. One thing that's strange, though, is that the > software doesn't think I should have much of a speed variation between a > cruise at 65hp / 6500rpm and 58hp / 5800rpm. To me the variation should be > linear with rpm, so that if I run 92mph at 6500 I will see 82mph at 5800. > > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:30 PM PST US From: Herbert R Gottelt Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Member List Lowell, I submitted my kitfox to the list several times, but I don't see it listed anywhere. I must be doing something wrong. I'll try again: Herbert Gottelt, Mount Prospect,IL. M4-1200, Rotax 912UL, 3- blade WarpDrive, Proplink CAP, mechanically activated. Speedster fuselage, Speedster full 32ft wings, Aluminum spring landing gear, RightAngle III AOA, Tailwheel, formed winshield, formed turtle-deck etc. 350 hrs. Just got my medical back after a 29 months fight with the FAA. Lowell Fitt wrote: Attached is the latest update of the list of members and what they are flying etc. I have had suggestions that we include occupations to round out the names. Also it has been suggested that we include builders as very few builders have responded to be included on the list. For me, and my understanding of the fleet, I would like to see empty wts. and maybe some performance numbers, i.e., climb and cruise. This could get big, but in my mind the bigger it is the more useful it will be to those building and thinking of building or buying. I was at Show and Shine last Saturday and next to my airplane, I posted an Idaho Division of Aeronotics map with dots on all the airports the group has flown to with some thumbnail pictures and that developed a lot of interest. Two guys called me later that evening interested in Kitfox - and this from a Hot Rod show with just a few airplanes for interest. If it is desired by a significant part of the group without some convincing negative feelings, I would be happy over the next few days - weeks to also cull out the e-mail addresses from those responding and add them too. Lowell ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:26 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: props for Guy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Don, Good points on the prop......... set it and forget it !! I just posted simular numbers in my last post I just sent. As far as forgeting to get off in 200 feet , well I have to disagree to a certain extent. Kitfoxes are a great plane with a wide envelope if performance and they certainly do excell at STOL and off field flying. You guys have to remember that pilot technique certainly helps alot as well. On paved surfaces your take off runs should be shorter. I think that Guy has a approx 600 pound IV Kitfox and should certainly EASILY be capable of enjoying flying his Kitfox and many others do. To be honest , a 582 Kitfox that takes 900 feet to take off , well you might as well have a C 152 ....... My Kitfox Dual at 80F on amphib floats get off the runway in less that 800 feet.. A 582 Kitfox as above should be at 100 feet agl min. after 900 not just taking off. As far as re - jetting etc , in my opinion that a stock jetting works well for me all year round and I fly from -15 F to 100F . I run the needles on the 3 rd notch down from spring to falll. My Egts are getting a bit high now ands I think on next plug change at 50 hours which is due any day now I will drop the clip on needle valve to bottom notch. That should drop Egts a bit. I run 1100 to 1200 with no issues but CHECK your Plugs to confirm. Prop pitching is very important ot keeping EGTs in line as well as the Needles and jetting. Also , one last note is on RPM -- do not trust a ROTAX tach. Get a tiny tach !! They 30 or 40$ and you might be thinking that you are running at 6800 WOT but get a tiny to confirm if you at 6800, 6200 or even 7400 rpm -Rtoax tachs are notorious for be not accurate. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Smythe" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: props for Guy > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > Guy, > I haven't followed this thread too close either but try this, forget > all there is about getting off the ground in 200' or whatever....Adjust > the prop so that you get 6799 (short of 6800 max) RPM's in level flight > with full throttle. You will have to hold some forward stick when you put > in full throttle to get that level flight. Just hold that full throttle > for a short time (less than 1 min) until you have everything stabilized > out. You want to have near 6800 RPM and EGT's running about 1150 ball > park. Re jet or re pitch to get those numbers. > This is the procedure that I have used and heard about for the last > many years. The name of the game is be nice to your engine and not try > for 5 more MPH or pick up 100' climb rate. What you get is what you > get..... > > Don Smythe > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> I downloaded the JC Propeller software to see if I could optimize my prop >> and it wants me to increase my pitch to 13 degrees at the tip so I may >> try >> that. That's certainly not going to decrease my takeoff roll, though it >> might increase my cruise. One thing that's strange, though, is that the >> software doesn't think I should have much of a speed variation between a >> cruise at 65hp / 6500rpm and 58hp / 5800rpm. To me the variation should >> be >> linear with rpm, so that if I run 92mph at 6500 I will see 82mph at 5800. >> >> >> Guy Buchanan >> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:32 PM PST US From: Dave and Diane Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Finger Strainer access on Series 7? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane Darin, I don't know what others have done; however, I made a rectangular aluminum grommet (similar in configuration to the forward lift strut bracket grommet) to glue on the back of the fabric for an access opening which will get an aluminum, screwed down cover plate. This idea is more for easy access for the fuel hose connection & clamp than anything else; but, if I ever get stuck in the future and need to pull out the strainers I won't have to chop up the fabric to get at it. I did not cut any of the lower rib cap - again, if I have to (and I hope I don't) I will modify the rib cap at at the time. The finger strainers are pretty coarse; and, I wouldn't expect them to get clogged up - they look more like something to keep the big lumps and chunks from getting into the line than anything to do any serious filtering (that is for the in line filters). To be sure, I did a thorough job of cleaning the tanks of fiberglass crud - and filtered the rinse water till 5 rinses came out without catching any stuff. Sincerely, Dave S St Paul, MN On Sunday 08 October 2006 10:21 pm, darinh wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > What has everybody done for access to the finger strainers on the series 7? > I have attached a pic of the area in question for all to comment on. I > can't figure out how you would ever be able to remove the strainer if it > became clogged being that the elbow is on the outboard side of rib #1. I > have changed the factory elbows for AN fittings but the concept is the > same. Without making some sort of access hatch and a section of Rib #1 > removable, I don't see how it is to be done? Can anyone enlighten me? If > so, pics of your setup would be worth a million words. > > Thanks, > > Darin Hawkes > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66660#66660 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1585_medium_784.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:42 PM PST US From: "Mike Crutchlow" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: props for Guy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mike Crutchlow" Dave, I can confirm that Rotax tachs can be notoriously inaccurate. I have just put a Tiny Tach in my Kitfox II (582) to check the accuracy of the Rotax and found a 500 rpm error. This was confirmed with an optical tach. My idle had been 1500 rpm (2000 indicated) and takeoff at 5700 rpm (6300 indicated). I've since repitched the prop for 6500 rpm and adjusted the idle to 2100 rpm using the Tiny Tach. The reason for suspecting the tach was a gearbox failure (E-box) probably caused by the low idle rpm. The only things I didn't have to change in the gearbox was the case, the sprag clutch and the output shaft. I bought the plane with 125 hours and have just turned 138. Failure was at 137. Prior to the rebuild by Light Aircraft Services the engine idled smoothly and there was no indication of a gearbox problem. Bob Robertson suspected that the failure happened over a 10-20 hour period. After the rebuild with no other changes there was a wicked harmonic at idle. The blades were creating a 2" sine wave! Remember that this is a 1500 rpm idle but shown as 2000 rpm by the Rotax tach. Now that it is up to 2100 rpm things are smooth again. Mike Crutchlow -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: October 9, 2006 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: props for Guy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" Don, Good points on the prop......... set it and forget it !! I just posted simular numbers in my last post I just sent. As far as forgeting to get off in 200 feet , well I have to disagree to a certain extent. Kitfoxes are a great plane with a wide envelope if performance and they certainly do excell at STOL and off field flying. You guys have to remember that pilot technique certainly helps alot as well. On paved surfaces your take off runs should be shorter. I think that Guy has a approx 600 pound IV Kitfox and should certainly EASILY be capable of enjoying flying his Kitfox and many others do. To be honest , a 582 Kitfox that takes 900 feet to take off , well you might as well have a C 152 ....... My Kitfox Dual at 80F on amphib floats get off the runway in less that 800 feet.. A 582 Kitfox as above should be at 100 feet agl min. after 900 not just taking off. As far as re - jetting etc , in my opinion that a stock jetting works well for me all year round and I fly from -15 F to 100F . I run the needles on the 3 rd notch down from spring to falll. My Egts are getting a bit high now ands I think on next plug change at 50 hours which is due any day now I will drop the clip on needle valve to bottom notch. That should drop Egts a bit. I run 1100 to 1200 with no issues but CHECK your Plugs to confirm. Prop pitching is very important ot keeping EGTs in line as well as the Needles and jetting. Also , one last note is on RPM -- do not trust a ROTAX tach. Get a tiny tach !! They 30 or 40$ and you might be thinking that you are running at 6800 WOT but get a tiny to confirm if you at 6800, 6200 or even 7400 rpm -Rtoax tachs are notorious for be not accurate. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Smythe" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: props for Guy > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" > > Guy, > I haven't followed this thread too close either but try this, > forget > all there is about getting off the ground in 200' or whatever....Adjust > the prop so that you get 6799 (short of 6800 max) RPM's in level flight > with full throttle. You will have to hold some forward stick when you put > in full throttle to get that level flight. Just hold that full throttle > for a short time (less than 1 min) until you have everything stabilized > out. You want to have near 6800 RPM and EGT's running about 1150 ball > park. Re jet or re pitch to get those numbers. > This is the procedure that I have used and heard about for the last > many years. The name of the game is be nice to your engine and not try > for 5 more MPH or pick up 100' climb rate. What you get is what you > get..... > > Don Smythe > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> I downloaded the JC Propeller software to see if I could optimize my >> prop and it wants me to increase my pitch to 13 degrees at the tip so >> I may try that. That's certainly not going to decrease my takeoff >> roll, though it might increase my cruise. One thing that's strange, >> though, is that the software doesn't think I should have much of a >> speed variation between a cruise at 65hp / 6500rpm and 58hp / >> 5800rpm. To me the variation should be >> linear with rpm, so that if I run 92mph at 6500 I will see 82mph at 5800. >> >> >> Guy Buchanan >> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:35 PM PST US From: Dave and Diane Subject: Kitfox-List: Dual Electrical system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane Some time back an individual on the list explained that they had installed two batteries with the aux alternator which basically ended up as redundant charging/storage systems for their kitfox. If this person is lurking around out there, would you contact me off list? I also have the aux alternator and see a lot of value in being able to back up the electrical system with some clever wiring. I am interested in how you hooked up your system Thanks, Dave S St Paul, MN Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:19 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: props for Guy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 06:12 PM 10/9/2006, you wrote: >Also , one last note is on RPM -- do not trust a ROTAX tach. Get a tiny >tach !! They 30 or 40$ and you might be thinking that you are running at >6800 WOT but get a tiny to confirm if you at 6800, 6200 or even 7400 >rpm -Rtoax tachs are notorious for be not accurate. Thought of that. I have a GRT EIS and checked it's numbers against my optical tach, (model aircraft,) and it was spot-on. Thanks for the tip, though. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:19 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: props for Guy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 04:54 PM 10/9/2006, you wrote: > This is the procedure that I have used and heard about for the last many >years. The name of the game is be nice to your engine and not try for 5 >more MPH or pick up 100' climb rate. What you get is what you get..... I know. I know. It's just that I'm trying to make sense of my performance calc's and it's not working out. I'm getting about 6550rpm at a density altitude of 5500' so I'm close to proper pitch. If speed varies with the cube root of horsepower, then I'm cruising at about 43hp. (65hp * (80mph/92mph)^3) But at 5800rpm (cruise) I should have about 58hp. (I cruise at 80 at 5800, max 92 at 6550.) Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:19 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: props for Guy --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 03:48 PM 10/9/2006, you wrote: >Just a caution. Be sure that you review your "abort takeoff" procedure >prior to flying after you add pitch. I've got 5000' x 150' of paved runway to work with. No problem aborting. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:06 PM PST US From: Grant Fluent Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Finger Strainer access on Series 7? Darin, I'm not sure if the Classic IV fuel tank setup is the same as your Series 7 but here is what I did: I made an aluminum plate with an opening to get a wrench on the elbow pipe fitting. I used an air operated flanger (for car patch panels) to make the recess in the aluminun so the cover plate would fit flush. I am still building so I can't say how it will work in the future but I should be able to get the strainers out. Grant Fluent Classic IV 912ULS --- darinh wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" > > > What has everybody done for access to the finger > strainers on the series 7? I have attached a pic of > the area in question for all to comment on. I can't > figure out how you would ever be able to remove the > strainer if it became clogged being that the elbow > is on the outboard side of rib #1. I have changed > the factory elbows for AN fittings but the concept > is the same. Without making some sort of access > hatch and a section of Rib #1 removable, I don't see > how it is to be done? Can anyone enlighten me? If > so, pics of your setup would be worth a million > words. > > Thanks, > > Darin Hawkes > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66660#66660 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1585_medium_784.jpg > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > >