Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Re: Ethanol (Rex Shaw)
2. 01:56 AM - Re: Cargo pods.... (flier)
3. 02:12 AM - Re: Ethanol (Michel Verheughe)
4. 04:41 AM - Re: Heater Pot scrubbers (Lynn Matteson)
5. 04:51 AM - Re: Heater Pot scrubbers (Dave)
6. 05:33 AM - Re: Heater Pot scrubbers (Algate)
7. 05:46 AM - Re: Heater Pot scrubbers (Dave)
8. 06:05 AM - Re: Heater Pot scrubbers (Algate)
9. 06:07 AM - Re: Kitfox/Jabiru trip numbers (Algate)
10. 06:53 AM - Re: Cargo pods.... (floran higgins)
11. 08:10 AM - Re: Cargo pods.... (flier)
12. 12:57 PM - How To Fly a Kitfox (crazyivan)
13. 01:41 PM - Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (jdmcbean)
14. 01:48 PM - Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (jdmcbean)
15. 01:58 PM - Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (Michel Verheughe)
16. 03:12 PM - Rotax 912 Magnetic Plug Removal (Ted Palamarek)
17. 03:22 PM - Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (Barry West)
18. 03:25 PM - heat muffs and electrolysis (Lynn Matteson)
19. 03:38 PM - Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (jdmcbean)
20. 03:57 PM - Re: Ethanol (Torgeir Mortensen)
21. 04:12 PM - Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (Marco Menezes)
22. 04:27 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Dave)
23. 04:41 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (kurt schrader)
24. 05:51 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Lynn Matteson)
25. 06:04 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Dave)
26. 06:47 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Lowell Fitt)
27. 07:38 PM - Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
28. 07:41 PM - Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (crazyivan)
29. 07:49 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Dave and Diane)
30. 08:08 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Lynn Matteson)
31. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Finger Strainer access on Series 7? (Guy Buchanan)
32. 08:11 PM - Re: Warp Drive Hub (Guy Buchanan)
33. 08:18 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Lynn Matteson)
34. 08:27 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Lynn Matteson)
35. 08:41 PM - Re: Warp Drive Hub (wingnut)
36. 09:03 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Lowell Fitt)
37. 09:38 PM - Re: Finger Strainer access on Series 7? (darinh)
38. 11:06 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Hub (kurt schrader)
39. 11:13 PM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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http://www.ultraflightradio.com/impodcast/2006/10/03/uft061003d.mp3
Rex, now that I have some time to listen to it, the link is dead.
:-(
Cheers,
Michel
Sorry Michel,
I think it disappeared soon after I posted it. It
was saying that the Ethanol attacks seals as well as the Fibreglass and
fuel lines. Yes they were just as worried as we are about all the
effects.
Rex.
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
Ok, I got you. You've apparently got a custom scoop. The pod mount is made
such that the rear mount is captive while the front mount 'rocks' on the two
eyebolts to give some play when attaching the pod. Don't know exactly where
your radiator is but you might be able to use the brackets -- just through
the scoop if you don't want to go all the way to building custom brackets.
Five holes through the scoop with the brackets inside? Depends on the depth
of the scoop.
Regards,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of floran
higgins
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "floran higgins" <cliffh@outdrs.net>
The picture you sent look like the mounting brackets that I received from
John McBean
My scoop is different. The rear of the scoop extends back to the rear
mounting bracket on your cargo pod.
It has an adjustable door on the rear that I can adjust from inside the
cabin to control the radiator heat. Just like on a F-51.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
> Floran,
>
> Did your pod come with two mounting brackets -- front
> with two legs and rear with 3?
>
> I've had a pod on my IV for 5 yrs now and use it
> often. Some time ago I took some detail photos for
> another gent that was mounting a pod but the attached
> is all I could find this morning.
>
> The front mount is simply two AN eyebolts up through
> the floorboards just behind the radiator scoop. The
> tripod rear mount attaches directly to the tabs on
> the tubes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
Message 3
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> From: Rex Shaw [rexjan@bigpond.com]
> It was saying that the Ethanol attacks seals.
Fear not, my friend. I have it from Neptune that the seals have sealed an alliance
with the dolphins and are about to retaliate ...
... sorry, I know; a waste of bandwidth and innocent bytes ... I couldn't resist
... a troll made me do it ...
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Heater Pot scrubbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Steel wool will really go off if used to short across a battery's
terminals. Probably best to test this with long jumpers, and not right
across the battery...explosive gasses and all. Those of you who are my
age will probably recall a commercial product that used this principal
to huge success...the photographic flashbulb. They might have used a
magnesium "wool".
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, October 19, 2006, at 04:45 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" <bsmith3163@aol.com>
>
> I don't know about the stainless steel scrubbing pads you have
> mentioned but
> have you ever seen steel wool burn? One spark will ignite it like it
> was
> made out of gasoline. I have carried it before in a survival kit.
> One good
> spark and you can easily start a camp fire. I have heard that it
> burns so
> well because of an oil used in the process of making it. I would test
> a
> piece of what ever you are using just to make sure.
>
> Brian Smith.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Heater Pot scrubbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Lynn.
I have a shroud around my muffler and a long door spring maybe 18 or 24"
long hooked on each side of shroud and it falls down inside the shrould but
is used to retain the stainless steel pot scrubbers....... I have close to
200 hours on them now and no issues are all. But i do not have steel wool.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Steel wool will really go off if used to short across a battery's
> terminals. Probably best to test this with long jumpers, and not right
> across the battery...explosive gasses and all. Those of you who are my age
> will probably recall a commercial product that used this principal to huge
> success...the photographic flashbulb. They might have used a magnesium
> "wool".
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Thursday, October 19, 2006, at 04:45 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Brian Smith" <bsmith3163@aol.com>
>>
>> I don't know about the stainless steel scrubbing pads you have mentioned
>> but
>> have you ever seen steel wool burn? One spark will ignite it like it was
>> made out of gasoline. I have carried it before in a survival kit. One
>> good
>> spark and you can easily start a camp fire. I have heard that it burns
>> so
>> well because of an oil used in the process of making it. I would test a
>> piece of what ever you are using just to make sure.
>>
>> Brian Smith.
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Heater Pot scrubbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Brian
The Stainless steel scrubbers I used were very soft to the touch and are
shredded to quite a large strand size and do not have any tendency to burn.
Dave was the gentleman that actually put me onto this idea and it instantly
raised the temp in my cabin by a significant amount. I had a full winter on
mine with no sign of any abrasion damage.
Regards
Gary Algate
Classic4 Jab 2200
I don't know about the stainless steel scrubbing pads you have mentioned but
have you ever seen steel wool burn? One spark will ignite it like it was
made out of gasoline. I have carried it before in a survival kit. One good
spark and you can easily start a camp fire. I have heard that it burns so
well because of an oil used in the process of making it. I would test a
piece of what ever you are using just to make sure.
Brian Smith.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Not sure if it would make any difference but I read somewhere about these
scrubbers being used in aircraft fabricated heat muffs. However, it made a
point to use the ones made from Brass (on the same shelf right next to
stainless). I can't remember why they specifically called for Brass except
maybe brass is softer and less likely to wear a hole in the muffler/heat
muff or, maybe it was heat retention?????. For whatever reason, I use the
Brass ones.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Guys -- this is what you want right here
> http://update-international.com/jpg_300x300/ssp-50.html
>
> Most stores carry them .
>
> I use them and they are excellent. You can get 20 to 30 C temp gain in
> your cockpit done properly.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox/Jabiru trip numbers
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> That explains why I didn't think of it, Michel.: ) I spent a half-day
>> building some internal baffles, and you guys spent a
>> half-minute...sheeeesh! A great idea! I can't wait to try it out. I have
>> installed a (temporary) thermocouple lead into the outlet of each of my
>> heat muffs, and I can read what the air temp is coming out of the muffs.
>> I can experiment with different types of baffles and learn what helps the
>> most....guess that's what makes this "Experimental Aircraft"
>> experimental.
>>
>> I wonder what copper scrubbers would do? (please, no plastic scrubbers)
>> Works for radiators...or it did when they still made them that way, and
>> the coefficient of heat transmission is better than anything else my
>> "bible" shows other than silver.
>>
>> Lynn
>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>> do not archive
>>
>> On Thursday, October 19, 2006, at 01:03 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Algate wrote:
>>>> - have you thought about using stranded Stainless steel (used for
>>>> kitchen wash scrubbers)
>>>
>>> Amazing! This is EXACTLY what I did with my Jabiru, last winter, Gary! I
>>> installed a cabin heater, from the muffler, but the air was coming in
>>> too fast and it didn't had the time to warm up. After adding a SS
>>> kitchen scrubber at the cabin's end of the hose, it comes in slower and
>>> warmer.
>>> ... great minds think alike! :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Michel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Heater Pot scrubbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Gary, Thx for the credit !! :)
Now also the oil bottle or funnel or scoop on backside of radiator works
very well too but only till temps get near freezing 32 f 0 c area then
you need the big kahunna Muffler shroud.
Gary you know we are getting close to Ski flying soon ------ do you have or
are you making Wheel skis for your new Kitfox ? I have a set of Avid Ski
plans as well but they are larger than my Kitfox Skis and mine work so well
I am reluctant to change the sizing. Mine are about 8 in W x 48 " Long
tip to tail .
We should gather a group of Ontario Ski flyers this winter........ if we
get one that is. Most of our deep snow comes mid Nov to end of December
usually from lake effect from Lake Huron.
And 12 to 36" of powder is a blast !!
Only thing better than ski flying is Float Flying.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> Brian
>
> The Stainless steel scrubbers I used were very soft to the touch and are
> shredded to quite a large strand size and do not have any tendency to
> burn.
> Dave was the gentleman that actually put me onto this idea and it
> instantly
> raised the temp in my cabin by a significant amount. I had a full winter
> on
> mine with no sign of any abrasion damage.
>
> Regards
>
> Gary Algate
> Classic4 Jab 2200
>
>
> I don't know about the stainless steel scrubbing pads you have mentioned
> but
> have you ever seen steel wool burn? One spark will ignite it like it was
> made out of gasoline. I have carried it before in a survival kit. One
> good
> spark and you can easily start a camp fire. I have heard that it burns so
> well because of an oil used in the process of making it. I would test a
> piece of what ever you are using just to make sure.
>
> Brian Smith.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:10 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> Not sure if it would make any difference but I read somewhere about these
> scrubbers being used in aircraft fabricated heat muffs. However, it made
> a
> point to use the ones made from Brass (on the same shelf right next to
> stainless). I can't remember why they specifically called for Brass
> except
> maybe brass is softer and less likely to wear a hole in the muffler/heat
> muff or, maybe it was heat retention?????. For whatever reason, I use the
> Brass ones.
>
> Don Smythe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:13 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>> Guys -- this is what you want right here
>> http://update-international.com/jpg_300x300/ssp-50.html
>>
>> Most stores carry them .
>>
>> I use them and they are excellent. You can get 20 to 30 C temp gain in
>> your cockpit done properly.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox/Jabiru trip numbers
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>
>>> That explains why I didn't think of it, Michel.: ) I spent a half-day
>>> building some internal baffles, and you guys spent a
>>> half-minute...sheeeesh! A great idea! I can't wait to try it out. I
>>> have
>
>>> installed a (temporary) thermocouple lead into the outlet of each of my
>>> heat muffs, and I can read what the air temp is coming out of the muffs.
>>> I can experiment with different types of baffles and learn what helps
>>> the
>
>>> most....guess that's what makes this "Experimental Aircraft"
>>> experimental.
>>>
>>> I wonder what copper scrubbers would do? (please, no plastic scrubbers)
>>> Works for radiators...or it did when they still made them that way, and
>>> the coefficient of heat transmission is better than anything else my
>>> "bible" shows other than silver.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 19, 2006, at 01:03 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 19, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Algate wrote:
>>>>> - have you thought about using stranded Stainless steel (used for
>>>>> kitchen wash scrubbers)
>>>>
>>>> Amazing! This is EXACTLY what I did with my Jabiru, last winter, Gary!
>>>> I
>
>>>> installed a cabin heater, from the muffler, but the air was coming in
>>>> too fast and it didn't had the time to warm up. After adding a SS
>>>> kitchen scrubber at the cabin's end of the hose, it comes in slower and
>>>> warmer.
>>>> ... great minds think alike! :-)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Heater Pot scrubbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Hi Dave
I managed to get a set of Turbulent Aviation skis when I brought the new
plane but I am really interested in wheel skis - especially as I now only
use AV Gas.
Either way, with over 90Ltrs of fuel and a 14 Ltr/Hr burn I have enough fuel
to go about 6-1/2 Hrs so it's not really an issue.
I would love to catch up with you for some ski flying and my friend in
Sudbury ended up getting a Model 4 /582 and he is also an avid winter flyer.
Let me know when you are ready
Regards
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Gary, Thx for the credit !! :)
Now also the oil bottle or funnel or scoop on backside of radiator works
very well too but only till temps get near freezing 32 f 0 c area then
you need the big kahunna Muffler shroud.
Gary you know we are getting close to Ski flying soon ------ do you have or
are you making Wheel skis for your new Kitfox ? I have a set of Avid Ski
plans as well but they are larger than my Kitfox Skis and mine work so well
I am reluctant to change the sizing. Mine are about 8 in W x 48 " Long
tip to tail .
We should gather a group of Ontario Ski flyers this winter........ if we
get one that is. Most of our deep snow comes mid Nov to end of December
usually from lake effect from Lake Huron.
And 12 to 36" of powder is a blast !!
Only thing better than ski flying is Float Flying.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> Brian
>
> The Stainless steel scrubbers I used were very soft to the touch and are
> shredded to quite a large strand size and do not have any tendency to
> burn.
> Dave was the gentleman that actually put me onto this idea and it
> instantly
> raised the temp in my cabin by a significant amount. I had a full winter
> on
> mine with no sign of any abrasion damage.
>
> Regards
>
> Gary Algate
> Classic4 Jab 2200
>
>
> I don't know about the stainless steel scrubbing pads you have mentioned
> but
> have you ever seen steel wool burn? One spark will ignite it like it was
> made out of gasoline. I have carried it before in a survival kit. One
> good
> spark and you can easily start a camp fire. I have heard that it burns so
> well because of an oil used in the process of making it. I would test a
> piece of what ever you are using just to make sure.
>
> Brian Smith.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:10 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> Not sure if it would make any difference but I read somewhere about these
> scrubbers being used in aircraft fabricated heat muffs. However, it made
> a
> point to use the ones made from Brass (on the same shelf right next to
> stainless). I can't remember why they specifically called for Brass
> except
> maybe brass is softer and less likely to wear a hole in the muffler/heat
> muff or, maybe it was heat retention?????. For whatever reason, I use the
> Brass ones.
>
> Don Smythe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:13 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Heater Pot scrubbers
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>> Guys -- this is what you want right here
>> http://update-international.com/jpg_300x300/ssp-50.html
>>
>> Most stores carry them .
>>
>> I use them and they are excellent. You can get 20 to 30 C temp gain in
>> your cockpit done properly.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox/Jabiru trip numbers
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>
>>> That explains why I didn't think of it, Michel.: ) I spent a half-day
>>> building some internal baffles, and you guys spent a
>>> half-minute...sheeeesh! A great idea! I can't wait to try it out. I
>>> have
>
>>> installed a (temporary) thermocouple lead into the outlet of each of my
>>> heat muffs, and I can read what the air temp is coming out of the muffs.
>>> I can experiment with different types of baffles and learn what helps
>>> the
>
>>> most....guess that's what makes this "Experimental Aircraft"
>>> experimental.
>>>
>>> I wonder what copper scrubbers would do? (please, no plastic scrubbers)
>>> Works for radiators...or it did when they still made them that way, and
>>> the coefficient of heat transmission is better than anything else my
>>> "bible" shows other than silver.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 19, 2006, at 01:03 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 19, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Algate wrote:
>>>>> - have you thought about using stranded Stainless steel (used for
>>>>> kitchen wash scrubbers)
>>>>
>>>> Amazing! This is EXACTLY what I did with my Jabiru, last winter, Gary!
>>>> I
>
>>>> installed a cabin heater, from the muffler, but the air was coming in
>>>> too fast and it didn't had the time to warm up. After adding a SS
>>>> kitchen scrubber at the cabin's end of the hose, it comes in slower and
>>>> warmer.
>>>> ... great minds think alike! :-)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Kitfox/Jabiru trip numbers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Thanks Michel - my mind needs all of the compliments it can get!!!!
Gary
Amazing! This is EXACTLY what I did with my Jabiru, last winter, Gary!
I installed a cabin heater, from the muffler, but the air was coming in
too fast and it didn't had the time to warm up. After adding a SS
kitchen scrubber at the cabin's end of the hose, it comes in slower and
warmer.
... great minds think alike! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cargo pods.... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "floran higgins" <cliffh@outdrs.net>
When I open the door on the back of the scoop and look inside, there are no
attachment visible. From where the front brackets would attach, I would have
to remove the scoop to get to the bottom of the airframe.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 2:56 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Ok, I got you. You've apparently got a custom scoop. The pod mount is
> made
> such that the rear mount is captive while the front mount 'rocks' on the
> two
> eyebolts to give some play when attaching the pod. Don't know exactly
> where
> your radiator is but you might be able to use the brackets -- just through
> the scoop if you don't want to go all the way to building custom brackets.
> Five holes through the scoop with the brackets inside? Depends on the
> depth
> of the scoop.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of floran
> higgins
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:14 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "floran higgins" <cliffh@outdrs.net>
>
> The picture you sent look like the mounting brackets that I received from
> John McBean
> My scoop is different. The rear of the scoop extends back to the rear
> mounting bracket on your cargo pod.
> It has an adjustable door on the rear that I can adjust from inside the
> cabin to control the radiator heat. Just like on a F-51.
>
> Floran H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>; <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
>
>
>> Floran,
>>
>> Did your pod come with two mounting brackets -- front
>> with two legs and rear with 3?
>>
>> I've had a pod on my IV for 5 yrs now and use it
>> often. Some time ago I took some detail photos for
>> another gent that was mounting a pod but the attached
>> is all I could find this morning.
>>
>> The front mount is simply two AN eyebolts up through
>> the floorboards just behind the radiator scoop. The
>> tripod rear mount attaches directly to the tabs on
>> the tubes.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ted
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cargo pods.... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
I'm not sure if you built or purchased your Fox
Floran but someone else may have removed those tab
weldments before covering thinking they'd never use
them -- particularly since the extended scoop was
added.
--- Original Message ---
From: "floran higgins" <cliffh@outdrs.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "floran higgins"
<cliffh@outdrs.net>
>
>When I open the door on the back of the scoop and
look inside, there are no
>attachment visible. From where the front brackets
would attach, I would have
>to remove the scoop to get to the bottom of the
airframe.
>
>Floran H.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 2:56 AM
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier"
<flier@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Ok, I got you. You've apparently got a custom
scoop. The pod mount is
>> made
>> such that the rear mount is captive while the
front mount 'rocks' on the
>> two
>> eyebolts to give some play when attaching the
pod. Don't know exactly
>> where
>> your radiator is but you might be able to use the
brackets -- just through
>> the scoop if you don't want to go all the way to
building custom brackets.
>> Five holes through the scoop with the brackets
inside? Depends on the
>> depth
>> of the scoop.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
Behalf Of floran
>> higgins
>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:14 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "floran
higgins" <cliffh@outdrs.net>
>>
>> The picture you sent look like the mounting
brackets that I received from
>> John McBean
>> My scoop is different. The rear of the scoop
extends back to the rear
>> mounting bracket on your cargo pod.
>> It has an adjustable door on the rear that I can
adjust from inside the
>> cabin to control the radiator heat. Just like on a
F-51.
>>
>> Floran H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>; <kitfox-
list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cargo pods....
>>
>>
>>> Floran,
>>>
>>> Did your pod come with two mounting brackets --
front
>>> with two legs and rear with 3?
>>>
>>> I've had a pod on my IV for 5 yrs now and use it
>>> often. Some time ago I took some detail photos
for
>>> another gent that was mounting a pod but the
attached
>>> is all I could find this morning.
>>>
>>> The front mount is simply two AN eyebolts up
through
>>> the floorboards just behind the radiator scoop.
The
>>> tripod rear mount attaches directly to the tabs on
>>> the tubes.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
>_-
=====================================================
=====
browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,
List
>_-
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Web Forums!
>_-
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Message 12
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| Subject: | How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "crazyivan" <dmivezic@yahoo.com>
Does anybody know if "How To Fly a Kitfox" is copyrighted? Meaning, can we legally
pass it around in .pdf format over the internet? I know the book was for
sale new for a time but now I think that it's out of print. The only downloadable
file I found was on Lazair.com but a scum-sucking jerk hacked the site and
wiped out the Kitfox content.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69170#69170
Message 13
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| Subject: | How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Yes it is
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of crazyivan
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: How To Fly a Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "crazyivan" <dmivezic@yahoo.com>
Does anybody know if "How To Fly a Kitfox" is copyrighted? Meaning, can we
legally pass it around in .pdf format over the internet? I know the book
was for sale new for a time but now I think that it's out of print. The
only downloadable file I found was on Lazair.com but a scum-sucking jerk
hacked the site and wiped out the Kitfox content.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69170#69170
Message 14
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| Subject: | How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
We are reprinted them.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of crazyivan
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: How To Fly a Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "crazyivan" <dmivezic@yahoo.com>
Does anybody know if "How To Fly a Kitfox" is copyrighted? Meaning, can we
legally pass it around in .pdf format over the internet? I know the book
was for sale new for a time but now I think that it's out of print. The
only downloadable file I found was on Lazair.com but a scum-sucking jerk
hacked the site and wiped out the Kitfox content.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69170#69170
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Oct 20, 2006, at 9:55 PM, crazyivan wrote:
> Does anybody know if "How To Fly a Kitfox" is copyrighted?
The only way to know is to ask the author, Dave. It is always better to
ask first. If you get the permission from the author, I'll be pleased
to help you to make it a good PDF document. Scanning pages and putting
in the document as JPG is a bad idea. Ideally, we should run a OCR
program and re-format it to something that will take only a fraction of
the size. Illustrations can be saved say, in GIF format, if only line
drawings. I could even vectorize those for you. But, leave it to me;
get first the permission from the author. Inform him that the PDF will
be locked for editing and that his name and credits will still be his.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Rotax 912 Magnetic Plug Removal |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
To all fellow Rotax 912 owners.
I just received the following additional info about removing the magnetic
plug for inspection on the 912 engine and didn't see it on our Kitfox site
so thought it is worth posting
http://www.rotech.ca/SrvTech/MagRemovalTips.pdf
Regards
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com>
John, I have my orginal copy. It is copyrighted by Skystar, 1993. You
should be able to get permission someway.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: How To Fly a Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Yes it is
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> 208.337.5111
> www.kitfoxaircraft.com
> "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of crazyivan
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:55 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: How To Fly a Kitfox
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "crazyivan" <dmivezic@yahoo.com>
>
> Does anybody know if "How To Fly a Kitfox" is copyrighted? Meaning, can
> we
> legally pass it around in .pdf format over the internet? I know the book
> was for sale new for a time but now I think that it's out of print. The
> only downloadable file I found was on Lazair.com but a scum-sucking jerk
> hacked the site and wiped out the Kitfox content.
>
> --------
> Dave
> Speedster 912 UL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69170#69170
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I had a question earlier today (while flying) regarding the use of pot
scrubbers in a heat muff...if you put a copper scrubber into an
aluminum heat muff, is there a resulting electrolysis action that takes
place? Is this a problem? Are stainless scrubbers less immune? (my
guess is yes)
I realize that my heat muffs (alum) are clamped around the stainless
steel exhaust pipe, but I have to accept this fact.
How do the pot scrubbers pick up the heat from the exhaust pipe, seeing
as it does not touch it in very many places...as least not as much as a
clamped-on finned device (that I built) would?
I'll accept the fact that many of you have tried the scrubbers and they
work, but I'd like to know the physics of it all.
Lynn
Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
Message 19
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| Subject: | How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
We own the rights and are reproducing the book...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry West
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: How To Fly a Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com>
John, I have my orginal copy. It is copyrighted by Skystar, 1993. You
should be able to get permission someway.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: How To Fly a Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Yes it is
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> 208.337.5111
> www.kitfoxaircraft.com
> "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of crazyivan
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 1:55 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: How To Fly a Kitfox
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "crazyivan" <dmivezic@yahoo.com>
>
> Does anybody know if "How To Fly a Kitfox" is copyrighted? Meaning, can
> we
> legally pass it around in .pdf format over the internet? I know the book
> was for sale new for a time but now I think that it's out of print. The
> only downloadable file I found was on Lazair.com but a scum-sucking jerk
> hacked the site and wiped out the Kitfox content.
>
> --------
> Dave
> Speedster 912 UL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69170#69170
>
>
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
It's still there, right in their archeive- go here:
http://www.ultraflightradio.com/bytopic/politics.html
Then roll down until you see the "introduction of the program" by Randy
Hansen, EAA:
-----------------------------------
It seems that gasoline is on everyone's mind nowadays and it really should
be on a lot of pilots' minds. Because while most people are worried about
the price of fuel, pilots that use autofuel for their aircraft have bigger
concerns. Pilots need to know the issues surrounding the reformulation of
fuel, mainly the addition of Ethanol to gasoline. Randy Hansen has been
studying the issue and talks to us about it. EAA.org. (5/30/06)
-----------------------------------
Click the "podcast download" (MP3 file 7 Mb), or just click "listen now".
Torgeir
On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 02:44:14 +0200, Rex Shaw <rexjan@bigpond.com> wrote:
> http://www.ultraflightradio.com/impodcast/2006/10/03/uft061003d.mp3
> Rex, now that I have some time to listen to it, the link is dead.
> :-(
> Cheers,
> Michel
> Sorry Michel,
> I think it disappeared soon after I posted it. It
> was saying that the Ethanol attacks seals as well as the Fibreglass and
> fuel lines. Yes they were just as worried as we are about all the
> effects.
>
Rex.
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: How To Fly a Kitfox |
Did John and Debra acquire rights to this publication when they purchased Skystar's
assets from the bankruptcy trustee? If so, you'll have to wait and buy from
them when the reprints are ready.
do not archive
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
__________________________________________________
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Lynn,
They slow the air down going through the heated airspace.
If you don't have them, you will get cooler air coming through.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:26 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I had a question earlier today (while flying) regarding the use of pot
> scrubbers in a heat muff...if you put a copper scrubber into an
> aluminum heat muff, is there a resulting electrolysis action that takes
> place? Is this a problem? Are stainless scrubbers less immune? (my
> guess is yes)
> I realize that my heat muffs (alum) are clamped around the stainless
> steel exhaust pipe, but I have to accept this fact.
> How do the pot scrubbers pick up the heat from the exhaust pipe, seeing
> as it does not touch it in very many places...as least not as much as a
> clamped-on finned device (that I built) would?
> I'll accept the fact that many of you have tried the scrubbers and they
> work, but I'd like to know the physics of it all.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I don't have the time to go into details, but
sometimes turbulence is a good thing. Maybe someone
else can take over from there?
Kurt S.
--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> How do the pot scrubbers pick up the heat from the
> exhaust pipe, seeing
> as it does not touch it in very many places...as
> least not as much as a
> clamped-on finned device (that I built) would?
> I'll accept the fact that many of you have tried the
> scrubbers and they
> work, but I'd like to know the physics of it all.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
__________________________________________________
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I realize that, Dave...that they slow down the air and therefore the
air heats up. That is why I built some baffles that have fins
protruding from them, and the fins are offset, thereby making the air
slow down, go around the fins, picking up heat, etc. My finned baffles
are in direct contact with the exhaust pipe. Maybe I should have
explained this when I asked the question. I know the principle of how
the scrubbers work, what I wanted to know was how do the scrubbers PICK
UP the heat from the exhaust pipe when they have so very little surface
area in contact with the pipe. Maybe you guys stuffed the scrubbers in
your muffs very tightly, thereby creating a lot of conduction heat
pickup...did you? (those that have tried the scrubbers?)
Lynn
On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 07:25 PM, Dave wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Lynn,
> They slow the air down going through the heated airspace. If you don't
> have them, you will get cooler air coming through.
>
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:26 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> I had a question earlier today (while flying) regarding the use of
>> pot scrubbers in a heat muff...if you put a copper scrubber into an
>> aluminum heat muff, is there a resulting electrolysis action that
>> takes place? Is this a problem? Are stainless scrubbers less immune?
>> (my guess is yes)
>> I realize that my heat muffs (alum) are clamped around the stainless
>> steel exhaust pipe, but I have to accept this fact.
>> How do the pot scrubbers pick up the heat from the exhaust pipe,
>> seeing as it does not touch it in very many places...as least not as
>> much as a clamped-on finned device (that I built) would?
>> I'll accept the fact that many of you have tried the scrubbers and
>> they work, but I'd like to know the physics of it all.
>> Lynn
>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Lynn, I do not know if conductivity has much to do with it.
The first one i did , well I found thats air was not cold but cool - NOT
HOT.
If was Paul Seehafer that told me to put pot scrubbers in and KApow BATMAN
I had more heat than i needed.
Springs will work as well. Maybe it does conduct but I think the main
purpose is to slow the air down so that it can get heated on the way by.
I guess when you think of a radiator and the fins from core tubes that
conductivity does in fact come in to play.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I realize that, Dave...that they slow down the air and therefore the air
> heats up. That is why I built some baffles that have fins protruding from
> them, and the fins are offset, thereby making the air slow down, go around
> the fins, picking up heat, etc. My finned baffles are in direct contact
> with the exhaust pipe. Maybe I should have explained this when I asked the
> question. I know the principle of how the scrubbers work, what I wanted to
> know was how do the scrubbers PICK UP the heat from the exhaust pipe when
> they have so very little surface area in contact with the pipe. Maybe you
> guys stuffed the scrubbers in your muffs very tightly, thereby creating a
> lot of conduction heat pickup...did you? (those that have tried the
> scrubbers?)
>
> Lynn
>
> On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 07:25 PM, Dave wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>> Lynn,
>> They slow the air down going through the heated airspace. If you don't
>> have them, you will get cooler air coming through.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:26 PM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> I had a question earlier today (while flying) regarding the use of pot
>>> scrubbers in a heat muff...if you put a copper scrubber into an aluminum
>>> heat muff, is there a resulting electrolysis action that takes place? Is
>>> this a problem? Are stainless scrubbers less immune? (my guess is yes)
>>> I realize that my heat muffs (alum) are clamped around the stainless
>>> steel exhaust pipe, but I have to accept this fact.
>>> How do the pot scrubbers pick up the heat from the exhaust pipe, seeing
>>> as it does not touch it in very many places...as least not as much as a
>>> clamped-on finned device (that I built) would?
>>> I'll accept the fact that many of you have tried the scrubbers and they
>>> work, but I'd like to know the physics of it all.
>>> Lynn
>>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
In the plastic airplanes, when cooling is an issue, one thing they try is to
reduce the size of the inlet openings. This slows down the air through the
cylinder fins and aids in the cooling.
We have discussed this in the past regarding the ideal inlet vs. outlet
size - points to the Kitfoxl list. I noticed this week as we were
installing the cowl and baffeling on the Lancair IV that the inlet and
outlets are, for practical purposes, the same size. I am anticipating
cooling issues when Brad starts flying. I guess that is why they often will
fly in primer for a year or so to make this sort of adjustment less
painfull.
Frankly, and this is just between us, for all its speed and mystique, I
didn't find the airplane very sophisticated. Lots of little issues that
are just not found in the Kitfox kit or manual. One small example, AN365
nuts everywhere regardless of application. Easier to put together the kits
and less inventory, but costly in weight. Another thing and this might be
really off base, but the same signals that suggested Skystar's problems
early on are surfacing at Lancair. Lots of key people leaving, and very
little in stock - lots of back orders. Oh, well, 90% done and 99% to go.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Lynn, I do not know if conductivity has much to do with it.
>
> The first one i did , well I found thats air was not cold but cool - NOT
> HOT.
> If was Paul Seehafer that told me to put pot scrubbers in and KApow BATMAN
> I had more heat than i needed.
> Springs will work as well. Maybe it does conduct but I think the main
> purpose is to slow the air down so that it can get heated on the way by.
>
> I guess when you think of a radiator and the fins from core tubes that
> conductivity does in fact come in to play.
>
>
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> I realize that, Dave...that they slow down the air and therefore the air
>> heats up. That is why I built some baffles that have fins protruding from
>> them, and the fins are offset, thereby making the air slow down, go
>> around the fins, picking up heat, etc. My finned baffles are in direct
>> contact with the exhaust pipe. Maybe I should have explained this when I
>> asked the question. I know the principle of how the scrubbers work, what
>> I wanted to know was how do the scrubbers PICK UP the heat from the
>> exhaust pipe when they have so very little surface area in contact with
>> the pipe. Maybe you guys stuffed the scrubbers in your muffs very
>> tightly, thereby creating a lot of conduction heat pickup...did you?
>> (those that have tried the scrubbers?)
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>> On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 07:25 PM, Dave wrote:
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>>
>>> Lynn,
>>> They slow the air down going through the heated airspace. If you don't
>>> have them, you will get cooler air coming through.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:26 PM
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
>>>
>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>> I had a question earlier today (while flying) regarding the use of pot
>>>> scrubbers in a heat muff...if you put a copper scrubber into an
>>>> aluminum heat muff, is there a resulting electrolysis action that takes
>>>> place? Is this a problem? Are stainless scrubbers less immune? (my
>>>> guess is yes)
>>>> I realize that my heat muffs (alum) are clamped around the stainless
>>>> steel exhaust pipe, but I have to accept this fact.
>>>> How do the pot scrubbers pick up the heat from the exhaust pipe, seeing
>>>> as it does not touch it in very many places...as least not as much as a
>>>> clamped-on finned device (that I built) would?
>>>> I'll accept the fact that many of you have tried the scrubbers and they
>>>> work, but I'd like to know the physics of it all.
>>>> Lynn
>>>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: How To Fly a Kitfox |
any body got a cpoy of the book I can get from them? Malcolm michigan kit
foxer taking the chek ride soon
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "crazyivan" <dmivezic@yahoo.com>
John and Debra,
You print/sell it and I'll buy it! Thanks.
Dave
PS The title is not listed in copyrite.gov
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69227#69227
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Lynn,
On the heat transfer with the scrubbers - its a multi deal thing....
1) Conduction - some of the heat travels through the metal where the scrubber
touches the pipe so the scrubber gains some heat which it can then transfer
to the air because it has additional surface area.
2) Radiation - with the scrubber metal anywhere near the pipe - a lot of heat
is picked up by the scrubber simply through radiation - try holding your hand
within a inch of a red hot exhaust pipe - bet it will feel hot even if you
don't actually touch it - same thing happens with the scrubber metal that is
not touching the pipe, after which the scrubber metal can then transfer the
heat to the air mass flowing by.
3) Forced convection - or simply the fact that air picks up heat from the pipe
and then distributes it within the air/scrubber matrix - the slowing down of
the air and the mixing/spreading/turbulence of the air flow accomplishes
this.
Just Good Old Norwegian Physics......
Dave S
On Friday 20 October 2006 5:26 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I had a question earlier today (while flying) regarding the use of pot
> scrubbers in a heat muff...if you put a copper scrubber into an
> aluminum heat muff, is there a resulting electrolysis action that takes
> place? Is this a problem? Are stainless scrubbers less immune? (my
> guess is yes)
> I realize that my heat muffs (alum) are clamped around the stainless
> steel exhaust pipe, but I have to accept this fact.
> How do the pot scrubbers pick up the heat from the exhaust pipe, seeing
> as it does not touch it in very many places...as least not as much as a
> clamped-on finned device (that I built) would?
> I'll accept the fact that many of you have tried the scrubbers and they
> work, but I'd like to know the physics of it all.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I do know that when I worked at the Chrysler wind tunnel about 30
years a go, that we would test radiators with various numbers of fins
per inch of core-tube length. The numbers that I recall were 4 and 5
fins per inch. We, as mechanics and "installers" of the experimental
radiators, only knew that we were installing rad "x" or rad "y", and
that they were different. We'd put the rad on the car, in the tunnel,
then go back to our other mundane chores while the engineers ran the
tests. What we learned was that
rad "x" ran hotter, but was cheaper to produce because it had less fins
and that equaled more money in Chrysler's pocket, or a less expensive
product to sell. And of course, all those fins were in contact with the
coolant tubes, picked up their heat, and dissipated it into the air
that passed through. In the variety of fins that I have witnessed over
the years are: wavy fins, fins with "star"-shaped holes punched through
them, and fins set at an angle, causing the air to go through the
radiator at an angle, slowing the air, and thereby picking up more
heat, and of course, more or less fins per inch of tube length. But in
all these cases, the fin was in contact with the cooling tubes drawing
heat away from the tube, and presenting it to the air for removal. In
the case of our scrubbers, I just don't see the physical contact with
the exhaust pipe as the way the heat is picked up. I guess I'll just
have to accept the fact that the air is slowed down by sheer blockage,
and it picks up heat that is radiated out from the pipe and let it go
at that....good enough.
Lynn
On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 09:02 PM, Dave wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Lynn, I do not know if conductivity has much to do with it.
>
> The first one i did , well I found thats air was not cold but cool -
> NOT HOT.
> If was Paul Seehafer that told me to put pot scrubbers in and KApow
> BATMAN I had more heat than i needed.
> Springs will work as well. Maybe it does conduct but I think the
> main purpose is to slow the air down so that it can get heated on the
> way by.
>
> I guess when you think of a radiator and the fins from core tubes that
> conductivity does in fact come in to play.
>
>
> Dave
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Finger Strainer access on Series 7? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 08:22 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote:
>As you can see, I had to cut out a section of the rib because I am using
>AN hardware straight out of the strainer and there was no way to get it
>out with the section of rib in place (the AN elbows are significantly
>longer than the elbow supplied with the kit). However, as you can see,
>the rib will be glued to the access flange and that will provide the
>rigidity in the rib.
Hi Darin,
I'm not sure I like your rib removal. I'm afraid the remaining
section will fatigue with time and I don't think that little bit of flat
aluminum is going to offer much in the way of resistance to compression or
side bending loads. (The inboard ribs live in an high fatigue environment
due to prop wash. Is there any chance you could rivet / bond some aluminum
angle or T to the inside of the aluminum frame? Or you could fasten
aluminum angle to the remaining rip pieces fore and aft using floating nuts.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 11:44 AM 10/14/2006, you wrote:
>You need me to do a movie of different props on 582 Kitfox ? I have 3
>different ones here and if anyone reads this like Tennessee props or Culver
>props, I would ask if you would like some good coverage on a Kitfox 582 to
>send me your best prop. I have 2 similar planes to try them on so we can
>get different results and post them for all to see.
>
>If you want bragging rights for your prop -- contact me
Thanks for the offer. I'm still fooling around. My last attempt was to
increase the pitch to 13.5d at the tip. It was really interesting. I had
6000 static; looked great. Then I tried to take off. I rolled maybe 50 feet
and the engine started to wind down. By the time I got to 30mph the engine
was down to 4400rpm and it was clear I was going nowhere! I tried it twice
with the exact same results. So it appears I was very near the torque curve
with my previous 12 degrees.
I'm going through the engine now trying to discern why I would be low on
horsepower. Jan at JC Propellor is trying to help me. He has a contact with
a similar configuration who tops out at 102mph. Using Martin Hollman's
speed program I'd have to have either 3 square feet more drag area, (40%
more,) or be running 45hp max in my 582, or some combination thereof. It's
unlikely I have more than 1 square foot more drag area so that would mean I
was running 54hp max. I've got good compression and good EGT's, but I
haven't checked the ignition timing, rotary valve timing, or exhaust pipe.
Question for the 582 folk: Is there a way to check the ignition timing
electronically or with a strobe? I don't want to pull the engine quite yet.
I'm going to post pictures of my exhaust for comparison / evaluation by the
582 experts. It's definitely NOT Rotax stock.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Is there a reverse-venturi shape to the outlet, Lowell? The Jabiru
people say that the best outlet shape has a lip that splays out so as
the air is leaving the cowl, a slight vacuum is formed helping to pull
the warmed air from inside the cowl. This may be common knowledge among
aircraft people, but thought I'd mention it. That, and the old 3:1
ratio of outlet air to inlet air in area comparison....which is
probably why you just mentioned anticipating cooling issues.
Lynn
On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 09:46 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> In the plastic airplanes, when cooling is an issue, one thing they try
> is to reduce the size of the inlet openings. This slows down the air
> through the cylinder fins and aids in the cooling.
>
> We have discussed this in the past regarding the ideal inlet vs.
> outlet size - points to the Kitfoxl list. I noticed this week as we
> were installing the cowl and baffeling on the Lancair IV that the
> inlet and outlets are, for practical purposes, the same size. I am
> anticipating cooling issues when Brad starts flying. I guess that is
> why they often will fly in primer for a year or so to make this sort
> of adjustment less painfull.
>
> Frankly, and this is just between us, for all its speed and mystique,
> I didn't find the airplane very sophisticated. Lots of little
> issues that are just not found in the Kitfox kit or manual. One
> small example, AN365 nuts everywhere regardless of application.
> Easier to put together the kits and less inventory, but costly in
> weight. Another thing and this might be really off base, but the
> same signals that suggested Skystar's problems early on are surfacing
> at Lancair. Lots of key people leaving, and very little in stock -
> lots of back orders. Oh, well, 90% done and 99% to go.
>
> Lowell
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
That works for me, Dave....now how about the possible electrolysis
thing with the previously-mentioned copper scrubbers? It was mentioned
that they really worked well, and I wondered if they worked well enough
to chance risking a possible electrolysis problem due to the
interaction between the copper scrubbers and (my) aluminum heat muff?
Lynn
On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 10:03 PM, Dave and Diane wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane
> <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> On the heat transfer with the scrubbers - its a multi deal thing....
>
> 1) Conduction - some of the heat travels through the metal where the
> scrubber
> touches the pipe so the scrubber gains some heat which it can then
> transfer
> to the air because it has additional surface area.
> 2) Radiation - with the scrubber metal anywhere near the pipe - a lot
> of heat
> is picked up by the scrubber simply through radiation - try holding
> your hand
> within a inch of a red hot exhaust pipe - bet it will feel hot even if
> you
> don't actually touch it - same thing happens with the scrubber metal
> that is
> not touching the pipe, after which the scrubber metal can then
> transfer the
> heat to the air mass flowing by.
> 3) Forced convection - or simply the fact that air picks up heat from
> the pipe
> and then distributes it within the air/scrubber matrix - the slowing
> down of
> the air and the mixing/spreading/turbulence of the air flow
> accomplishes
> this.
>
> Just Good Old Norwegian Physics......
>
> Dave S
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> Thanks for the offer. I'm still fooling around. My last attempt was to increase
the pitch to 13.5d at the tip. It was really interesting. I had
> 6000 static; looked great. Then I tried to take off. I rolled maybe 50 feet
> and the engine started to wind down. By the time I got to 30mph the engine was
down to 4400rpm and it was clear I was going nowhere! I tried it twice with
the exact same results. So it appears I was very near the torque curve with my
previous 12 degrees.
>
Sorry to but in here as I have nothing really helpful to offer. I'm just confused
about the explination for the RPM decreasing with increased airspeed. Shouldn't
the prop unload as airspeed increasing and therefore increase RPM for the
same HP output?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69240#69240
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Guy and Lynn,
No cowl flap, but there is sort of a tunnel - exhaust in each - on each side
where the cowl extends below the fuselage contour a bit. Nice thing about
this project for me is that I am labor only. Issues? I just wait for the
heads-up from Brad. I give opinion, but the decisions are his. Yes!
Through every part of the project I have been very happy my airplane is a
Kitfox.
Lowell
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Is there a reverse-venturi shape to the outlet, Lowell? The Jabiru people
> say that the best outlet shape has a lip that splays out so as the air is
> leaving the cowl, a slight vacuum is formed helping to pull the warmed air
> from inside the cowl. This may be common knowledge among aircraft people,
> but thought I'd mention it. That, and the old 3:1 ratio of outlet air to
> inlet air in area comparison....which is probably why you just mentioned
> anticipating cooling issues.
>
> Lynn
> On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 09:46 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> In the plastic airplanes, when cooling is an issue, one thing they try is
>> to reduce the size of the inlet openings. This slows down the air
>> through the cylinder fins and aids in the cooling.
>>
>> We have discussed this in the past regarding the ideal inlet vs. outlet
>> size - points to the Kitfoxl list. I noticed this week as we were
>> installing the cowl and baffeling on the Lancair IV that the inlet and
>> outlets are, for practical purposes, the same size. I am anticipating
>> cooling issues when Brad starts flying. I guess that is why they often
>> will fly in primer for a year or so to make this sort of adjustment less
>> painfull.
>>
>> Frankly, and this is just between us, for all its speed and mystique, I
>> didn't find the airplane very sophisticated. Lots of little issues
>> that are just not found in the Kitfox kit or manual. One small example,
>> AN365 nuts everywhere regardless of application. Easier to put together
>> the kits and less inventory, but costly in weight. Another thing and
>> this might be really off base, but the same signals that suggested
>> Skystar's problems early on are surfacing at Lancair. Lots of key people
>> leaving, and very little in stock - lots of back orders. Oh, well, 90%
>> done and 99% to go.
>>
>> Lowell
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Finger Strainer access on Series 7? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Guy,
Actually, this picture does not show it but yes, I have a piece of aluminum angle
that is fastened to the rib on both sides. I cannot make it permanent as that
will not allow for removal of the elbow and strainer. I spent a bunch of
time thinking about this setup and did actually run some calcs on the rib (I am
a civil engineer with a structures background) with pretty much every load combination
I could think of (i.e. side, compression, tension, suction, etc.) and
there are no issues. If you really think about it, you have a very rigid tank
that acts as a 3' wide rib in this area. After doing the calcs, I am convinced
that this rib #1 is primarily to provide a finished root to the wing and
to allow for a convenient location for attaching the fabric. It sees no loads
to speak of other than the side loads from the fabric and these loads are transfered
to the tank when the small sections of wood stringer are glued in place.
Thanks for the comments though, I appreciate a second eye to catch anything
I may have missed.
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69244#69244
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I suspect the prop was partially stalled and started
grabbing air as you accellerated. This brought the
RPM and HP down as the prop began to work more.
Just my guess, that you were over pitched.
Kurt S. S-5
--- wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for the offer. I'm still fooling around. My
> last attempt was to increase the pitch to 13.5d at
> the tip. It was really interesting. I had
> > 6000 static; looked great. Then I tried to take
> off. I rolled maybe 50 feet
> > and the engine started to wind down. By the time I
> got to 30mph the engine was down to 4400rpm and it
> was clear I was going nowhere! I tried it twice with
> the exact same results. So it appears I was very
> near the torque curve with my previous 12 degrees.
> >
>
>
> Sorry to but in here as I have nothing really
> helpful to offer. I'm just confused about the
> explination for the RPM decreasing with increased
> airspeed. Shouldn't the prop unload as airspeed
> increasing and therefore increase RPM for the same
> HP output?
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
The old WW-I Jenny had a radiator where the water only
went around the outer ring. The entire center was
only conductor. Seems the heat would transfer a long
ways from the contacted surface.
I think in the case of the scrubbers, they not only
slow the air down but mix it so that more air has a
chance to contact heated surfaces. As was mentioned,
radiation has more time to work too.
My air coming from my oil cooler only rises about 10
degrees in temperature. I planned to use it for cabin
heat. Looks like I'll have to lower the airspeed thru
the cooler to get much heat out of it in winter.
Scrubbers aren't adjustable enough. :-)
Kurt S. S-5
--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> I realize that, Dave...that they slow down the air
> and therefore the
> air heats up. That is why I built some baffles that
> have fins
> protruding from them, and the fins are offset,
> thereby making the air
> slow down, go around the fins, picking up heat, etc.
> My finned baffles
> are in direct contact with the exhaust pipe. Maybe I
> should have
> explained this when I asked the question. I know the
> principle of how
> the scrubbers work, what I wanted to know was how do
> the scrubbers PICK
> UP the heat from the exhaust pipe when they have so
> very little surface
> area in contact with the pipe. Maybe you guys
> stuffed the scrubbers in
> your muffs very tightly, thereby creating a lot of
> conduction heat
> pickup...did you? (those that have tried the
> scrubbers?)
>
> Lynn
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