Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:41 AM - Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox (Michel Verheughe)
2. 05:14 AM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Lynn Matteson)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: Tailwheel (Lynn Matteson)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Another video for you guys and GUY !! (Noel Loveys)
5. 05:50 AM - Re: First Flight N422NL (Lynn Matteson)
6. 05:56 AM - Re: Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox (Noel Loveys)
7. 05:57 AM - Another video (Dee Young)
8. 07:01 AM - Re: heat muffs and electrolysis (Noel Loveys)
9. 07:04 AM - Re: Another video for you guys and GUY !! (Dave)
10. 07:09 AM - Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (Noel Loveys)
11. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (Noel Loveys)
12. 07:16 AM - Re: Another video (Dave)
13. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (Noel Loveys)
14. 07:26 AM - Re: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (Noel Loveys)
15. 07:41 AM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (Noel Loveys)
16. 07:46 AM - Re: Another video (Dave G.)
17. 07:47 AM - Re: Tailwheel (Lowell Fitt)
18. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (Aerobatics@aol.com)
19. 07:49 AM - Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Gary Glasgow)
20. 07:51 AM - Re: oops for got link Re: Another video for you guys and GUY !! (Noel Loveys)
21. 07:55 AM - Re: Kitfox (Peter Graichen)
22. 07:56 AM - Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs (Lynn Matteson)
23. 08:04 AM - Re: First Flight N422NL (Lowell Fitt)
24. 08:10 AM - Re: Another video (Lynn Matteson)
25. 08:12 AM - Re: Tailwheel (Lowell Fitt)
26. 08:14 AM - Re: First Flight N422NL (Guy Buchanan)
27. 08:30 AM - Re: Tailwheel (Guy Buchanan)
28. 08:30 AM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Guy Buchanan)
29. 08:41 AM - Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs (Dave G.)
30. 08:44 AM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Dave G.)
31. 08:50 AM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (Guy Buchanan)
32. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (Noel Loveys)
33. 08:56 AM - Re: Another video (Dave G.)
34. 08:58 AM - Re: First Flight N422NL (Noel Loveys)
35. 09:02 AM - Re: Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox (Lowell Fitt)
36. 09:06 AM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Noel Loveys)
37. 09:15 AM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Noel Loveys)
38. 09:29 AM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (Don Smythe)
39. 09:50 AM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Noel Loveys)
40. 10:19 AM - Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Gary Glasgow)
41. 10:37 AM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Dave)
42. 10:38 AM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (Dave)
43. 10:46 AM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (Dave)
44. 10:49 AM - Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs (Dave)
45. 10:59 AM - Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL (Dan Billingsley)
46. 11:12 AM - Re: Tailwheel (Michel Verheughe)
47. 11:18 AM - Re: Another video (Dave and Diane)
48. 11:22 AM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (Don Smythe)
49. 11:30 AM - Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (akflyer)
50. 11:47 AM - Re: Tailwheel (Lowell Fitt)
51. 12:05 PM - Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL (jeff puls)
52. 12:30 PM - Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs (Lynn Matteson)
53. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (Aerobatics@aol.com)
54. 01:46 PM - Montreal? (Aerobatics@aol.com)
55. 02:41 PM - Prop Blade Length (Richard D'Archangel)
56. 02:49 PM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (floran higgins)
57. 05:14 PM - Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL (Joel)
58. 05:43 PM - Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? (john perry)
59. 05:52 PM - Re: Tailwheel (Lowell Fitt)
60. 06:00 PM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (John Anderson)
61. 06:12 PM - Re: Tailwheel aka Nosewheels (Dave)
62. 06:29 PM - Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL (Guy Buchanan)
63. 06:29 PM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (Guy Buchanan)
64. 06:29 PM - Re: Another video (Guy Buchanan)
65. 06:29 PM - Re: Tailwheel (Guy Buchanan)
66. 06:36 PM - Re: Prop Blade Length (Lowell Fitt)
67. 06:47 PM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (James Shumaker)
68. 06:53 PM - Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs (James Shumaker)
69. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
70. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: How To Fly a Kitfox (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
71. 07:29 PM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (John Anderson)
72. 07:58 PM - Rebuilding 582's (Rex Shaw)
73. 09:00 PM - Re: Rebuilding 582's (john perry)
74. 09:11 PM - Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL (Joel)
75. 09:25 PM - Show me the FAR... (84KF)
76. 09:49 PM - Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs (Lowell Fitt)
77. 09:52 PM - Re: Tailwheel aka Nosewheels (Lowell Fitt)
78. 11:40 PM - Re: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub (John Anderson)
79. 11:43 PM - Re: Prop Blade Length (John Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Oct 22, 2006, at 5:03 AM, <michaelgibbs@cox.net> wrote:
> In the United States, you do not need to register a copyright with the
> government to make it legal, therefore you cannot rely on whether or
> not it is listed.
It is the same in Norway, Mike, and I suppose, the same in most
westerly countries. I know e.g. that Singapore has different copyright
rules, (and probably North Korea :-) but, otherwise, you risk much by
copying, anywhere.
Many years ago, I was asked to appear in a trial, as an adviser,
regarding the copying of a yacht's hull. A very difficult case because
how do you define a hull shape? Looking at both line plan drawings, had
to give my opinion as to if one was the copy of the other, or if they
were two distinct drawings.
In typography, it is impossible to say if the shape of letters are a
copy or not. Therefore typographers copyright (or rather, ITC does it
for them) typeface names, only. That's why Macintosh had "Times" (they
paid for the right to use the name) while Microsoft had "Tms," a copy
of "Times." Hermann Zapf created the beautiful Optima typeface, but
printshops had mostly "Omega," a copy of it.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I built mine from alum stock ordered from Aircraft Spruce. Because the
exhaust pipes on my Jab 2200 engine are 1-1/4" OD, I needed 1-3/8" OD
tubing for the inlet and out tubes that clamp around these exhaust
pipes. This was only available...from Spruce at least...in the.058"
wall, so I used that, and then used the 2" and the 3" stock that they
sell in a similar wall thickness and grade aluminum...6061T6...for the
body and air inlet and outlet pipes. I saw that the size was available
in 2024, but at 3 times the cost. For an experiment in building a heat
muff, I let cost govern my thinking and went with the 6061. At least
the grades would then all be the same, and weldability would not be an
issue, if it even would have, had I mixed grades.
Lynn
On Saturday, October 21, 2006, at 09:17 PM, Dave wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Lynn -- I will add that my heat shroud that I made is 2024 alum I
> had here. I think it was 016 or 020 that came off a wing or
> something.
>
>
> Dave
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Hi Lowell-
I ordered one foot each of two different sizes of tubing stock from
Spruce, and used the one that fit the axle the best...it was p/n
03-03900, and it is in the catalog under 4130 seamless tubing, 5/8" OD.
The other tubing I ordered was under bushing stock #03-17100. They both
show as .065" wall, but the 03-03900 fits better to the axle. It seems
like I had to polish the axle slightly. I'm using this sleeve method
and I sent a piece of the same stock to Jimmie Blackwell, who is also
using it.
Yes, those bearings from Spruce, that come in the wheel, are junk,
suitable only for lawn carts etc. And if you order the "replacement
bearings" from Spruce, be aware that you get only ONE....yes, it says
"bearings" but bearings in this case is ONE.
Lynn
On Saturday, October 21, 2006, at 05:12 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Several years ago I opted to change out to the Homebuilders Special
> dual fork tailwheel. I got the immediate quieting that others have
> mentioned. I also ordered the spare sealed bearing as the word was
> that the original bearings were unsealed and un-lubeable.
>
> Well, the unsealed part is true but the un-lubeable part is only
> partly true. There is a grease fitting, but to force grease into the
> bearings you would have to fill the entire hub cavity between the
> bearings - probably about three or four ounces of grease. My guess is
> that with that much lubricant in the hub and unsealed, you would
> eventually throw all that grease onto the underside of the aft
> fuselage. Essentially, the original equipment bearings are junk and
> the provision for lubrication is haphazard at best - a real
> disappointment in an otherwise great tailwheel.
>
> In short, I was getting more tail wheel noise than I was used to so I
> lifted the tail and sure enough the bearings were shot. I removed the
> wheel and bearings and pressed in the new ones and voila - the
> replacement bearings from ACS were 5/8" ID whereas I needed 1/2" ID
> bearings as exact replacements for the originals. So much for buying
> early and keeping them on hand. If course I didn't check the ID
> against the axle until I had them pressed into the hub - dumb me > again.
>
> Just a general heads-up here. ACS sold the bearing as an exact
> replacement upgade. I know of others that have replaced them. What
> is your experience with the replacement bearings? I have ordered new
> bearings from my favorite bearing shop and they are a bit more
> expensive, but I know for sure what I will be getting - dual contact
> sealed bearings, 1.375" OD X .5" ID with retaining ring.
>
> Lowell
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Another video for you guys and GUY !! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Dave:
Can you send the address again.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:39 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Another video for you guys and GUY !!
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Guy , Here is some footdage from today. Quickly edited to
> get to you.
> I even put ads on there to help out with th massive bandwidth
> you guys use
> :)
> Last movie I put up been downloaded 627 times now .
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Dave
>
> Guy do we call you a bit short of 300 now ? :)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> >
> > At 08:44 AM 10/21/2006, you wrote:
> >>I just in from flying last 2 hours. did about 10 take
> offs and landings
> >>when i got back ..... and all were 150 to 200 feet at th most
> >>wind about 3 knots or less temp 5 C elevation 950 '
> >>Warp set at 6200 static. cruies at 5800 85 to 88 or so
> at 500 agl
> >
> > Dave,
> > I timed your Kitfox video and got about 7.2 seconds
> from first
> > motion to obvious vertical motion. This works out to about
> 212' to 40mph.
> > I timed my early morning take-off today at 8.66 seconds. (A
> little crude
> > since it's hard to fiddle with the watch while taking off!)
> This works out
> > to 254' to 40mph. I'll have to check my measurements, since
> 254' is not
> > near as bad as the 540' I originally estimated.
> >
> >
> > Guy Buchanan
> > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight N422NL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Congratulations, Joel...now the fun begins... : )
Lynn
do not archive
On Sunday, October 22, 2006, at 12:00 AM, Joel Mapes wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes"
> <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
>
> It's an airplane!
> I just wanted to share my joy with all of you whose encouragement and
> advice have kept me working towards this day. A friend of mine who is
> an A&P, very experienced pilot and owner of Avian flight center
> www.avianflight.com was PIC for the first flight. He reports that the
> wing and flaperon rigging are right on but that she needs some right
> rudder. She is also apparently under-propped as he could not use more
> than 1/2 throttle without exceeding 5800 RPM on the 912 ULS and
> cruised at a blistering 55 mph.
>
> Joel
> Model 5 912 ULS GTA CS prop
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and morethen map the
> best route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
The most common way of retaining a copyright is to make a copy of what ever
it is you want to copyright, Place it in a sealed envelope and mail it to
yourself via registered mail. That way you have dates and signatures of the
postal clerk. When the letter arrives don't open it but put it in a safe
deposit box only to be opened in court if the need occurs. You can also get
the bank manager to sign the envelope before you put it in the box.
Any one else claiming copyright will have to come up with hard evidence that
they had a copy of item earlier than the witnessed one you put in the safe
deposit box.
There is some question with copyright on graphics. Some time ago a man
copied a stamp and put it on a T shirt. He was immediately charged with
copyright infringement, he won the case because of a little known part of
the law in the country where the first copyright was held. The original
copyright only extended to copies up to 2.5 times the size of the original
print. I don't think this loophole is in Canadian law but it was in
Newfoundland law, when Newfoundland was a separate Dominion.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Verheughe
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:11 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Oct 22, 2006, at 5:03 AM, <michaelgibbs@cox.net> wrote:
> > In the United States, you do not need to register a
> copyright with the
> > government to make it legal, therefore you cannot rely on
> whether or
> > not it is listed.
>
> It is the same in Norway, Mike, and I suppose, the same in most
> westerly countries. I know e.g. that Singapore has different
> copyright
> rules, (and probably North Korea :-) but, otherwise, you risk much by
> copying, anywhere.
> Many years ago, I was asked to appear in a trial, as an adviser,
> regarding the copying of a yacht's hull. A very difficult
> case because
> how do you define a hull shape? Looking at both line plan
> drawings, had
> to give my opinion as to if one was the copy of the other, or if they
> were two distinct drawings.
> In typography, it is impossible to say if the shape of letters are a
> copy or not. Therefore typographers copyright (or rather, ITC does it
> for them) typeface names, only. That's why Macintosh had
> "Times" (they
> paid for the right to use the name) while Microsoft had "Tms," a copy
> of "Times." Hermann Zapf created the beautiful Optima typeface, but
> printshops had mostly "Omega," a copy of it.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Excellent vidio, Thanks Dave.
Dee
Do not archive.
Message 8
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| Subject: | heat muffs and electrolysis |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Better and cheaper to make the muff (shroud) out of stove pipe. Much less
chance of corrosion. The good news is that you will get most of your
corrosion on your shroud and not on your expen$ive muffler. The other thing
is also true if you live in a very dry environment then corrosion is much
slower developing.
Where I live, about 100' from the salty North Atlantic ( guess what, it's
rain, drizzle and fog again today) corrosion occurs very quickly. For me
an aluminium shroud wouldn't last very long. As has been mentioned here the
best way of avoiding dissimilar metal corrosion is not to have dissimilar
metals. Use stainless stove pipe (I length of 7" should do) and of course
the stainless scrubbers
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:47 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Lynn -- I will add that my heat shroud that I made is 2024
> alum I had
> here. I think it was 016 or 020 that came off a wing or something.
>
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 2:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >
> > What I have is: no muffler involved...is its sending it's
> heat to the
> > carb, when needed.
> > I have stainless steel exhaust pipes, to which I've
> attached (think clam
> > shell, wrap-around) an aluminum heat muff, and later installed alum
> > baffles inside that. The current question is what kind of
> material should
> > be used for the scrubbers inside that alum heat muff? It
> sounds like
> > because I already have an alum muff in contact with a SS
> pipe, that the
> > addition of the SS scrubber pads, or copper, will not
> create a problem
> > that is not already there.
> >
> > Lynn
> > On Saturday, October 21, 2006, at 10:03 AM, PWilson wrote:
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
> >>
> >> Aluminum and copper or brass are close in the
> electromotive chart. Steel
> >> is not a good used with Al. My 84 172 had stainless pads
> in the air
> >> intakes to keep out the bugs. Never saw any corrosion, but
> there was no
> >> heat at the leading edge intakes. If the muffler is
> stainless then use
> >> stainless pads If the thing is Al then use copper or
> brass. If the shroud
> >> is Al and the muffler is stainless or other steel you
> already have a
> >> corrosion issue that wont be exacerbated by any kind of pad.
> >> Hope this helps, Paul
> >> ==================
> >> At 04:01 AM 10/21/2006, you wrote:
> >>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> >>>
> >>> Lynn , I am not familiar with metal interaction
> between copper/brass
> >>> with Aluminum at all.
> >>> That being said for pot scrubbers you would think that
> copper would be
> >>> a better conductor than Stainless Steel.
> >>> In this application I have not idea if one would be
> better than another
> >>> (SS versus Copper )
> >>> I found this it matters
> >>> "1) University of Sherbrooke, Sherbrooke, Canada
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Abstract The surface pitting of copper conductors
> recovered from fire
> >>> debris has been reproduced by laboratory tests. The
> results of these
> >>> tests demonstrate that molten aluminum that comes in
> contact with copper
> >>> conductors drastically reduces the melting point of
> copper by alloying.
> >>> "
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson"
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >>> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:29 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: heat muffs and electrolysis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >>>>
> >>>> That works for me, Dave....now how about the possible
> electrolysis
> >>>> thing with the previously-mentioned copper scrubbers? It
> was mentioned
> >>>> that they really worked well, and I wondered if they
> worked well enough
> >>>> to chance risking a possible electrolysis problem due to the
> >>>> interaction between the copper scrubbers and (my)
> aluminum heat muff?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lynn
> >>>> On Friday, October 20, 2006, at 10:03 PM, Dave and Diane wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane
> >>>>> <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lynn,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On the heat transfer with the scrubbers - its a multi
> deal thing....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1) Conduction - some of the heat travels through the
> metal where the
> >>>>> scrubber
> >>>>> touches the pipe so the scrubber gains some heat which
> it can then
> >>>>> transfer
> >>>>> to the air because it has additional surface area.
> >>>>> 2) Radiation - with the scrubber metal anywhere near
> the pipe - a lot
> >>>>> of heat
> >>>>> is picked up by the scrubber simply through radiation -
> try holding
> >>>>> your hand
> >>>>> within a inch of a red hot exhaust pipe - bet it will
> feel hot even if
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> don't actually touch it - same thing happens with the
> scrubber metal
> >>>>> that is
> >>>>> not touching the pipe, after which the scrubber metal can then
> >>>>> transfer the
> >>>>> heat to the air mass flowing by.
> >>>>> 3) Forced convection - or simply the fact that air
> picks up heat from
> >>>>> the pipe
> >>>>> and then distributes it within the air/scrubber matrix
> - the slowing
> >>>>> down of
> >>>>> the air and the mixing/spreading/turbulence of the air flow
> >>>>> accomplishes
> >>>>> this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just Good Old Norwegian Physics......
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave S
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Another video for you guys and GUY !! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Kitfox Flicks
from the Trailer park
http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another video for you guys and GUY !!
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> Dave:
> Can you send the address again.
>
> Noel
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
>> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:39 AM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Another video for you guys and GUY !!
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>> Guy , Here is some footdage from today. Quickly edited to
>> get to you.
>> I even put ads on there to help out with th massive bandwidth
>> you guys use
>> :)
>> Last movie I put up been downloaded 627 times now .
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Guy do we call you a bit short of 300 now ? :)
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
>>
>>
>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>> >
>> > At 08:44 AM 10/21/2006, you wrote:
>> >>I just in from flying last 2 hours. did about 10 take
>> offs and landings
>> >>when i got back ..... and all were 150 to 200 feet at th most
>> >>wind about 3 knots or less temp 5 C elevation 950 '
>> >>Warp set at 6200 static. cruies at 5800 85 to 88 or so
>> at 500 agl
>> >
>> > Dave,
>> > I timed your Kitfox video and got about 7.2 seconds
>> from first
>> > motion to obvious vertical motion. This works out to about
>> 212' to 40mph.
>> > I timed my early morning take-off today at 8.66 seconds. (A
>> little crude
>> > since it's hard to fiddle with the watch while taking off!)
>> This works out
>> > to 254' to 40mph. I'll have to check my measurements, since
>> 254' is not
>> > near as bad as the 540' I originally estimated.
>> >
>> >
>> > Guy Buchanan
>> > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | need info on 582 rebuilding |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I've had excellent dealings with Bob. I won't say that, unsolicited, about
everyone. He has a lot of experience, wit planes as well as engines, take
advantage of it.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark Miller
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:01 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: need info on 582 rebuilding
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Miller"
> <markrmiller@cableone.net>
>
> You want to talk to Bob Robertson here is his info
> Light Engine Service 780-418-4164
> Great guy we bought 3 914,s from him and he stands behind his
> product (know
> from experience)
> Mark Miller
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: need info on 582 rebuilding
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> >
> > Contact a Rotax shop
> >
> > Bob Robertson in Alberta.
> > I have his number if you need it .
> >
> > Also You might want to try the trade in program and get all
> new everything
> > except muffler and carbs.
> >
> > Blue head has the water pump bypass and you could even go
> to a E box with
> > starter up front. I have done that and have no issues with W & B
> > I have nothing against a grey head having flown many of
> them but if you
> > going the cheap route rebuilding cranks - well good luck.
> Get a new one
> > from rotax or at least get advice from Bob. He will check
> your ser.
> > number to see it the old style or new style. With 292
> hour you are doing
> > something right on it but remember all the parts were new
> when it started
> > at ZERO time .
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:01 PM
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: need info on 582 rebuilding
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer"
> <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
> >>
> >> I have a 582 with 292 hrs and am ready to tear it down for
> a rebuild. It
> >> is a grey head so I want to get the case machined for the
> ceramic water
> >> pump seal update. I am looking for a place to do the machine work
> >> (prefer the west coast for shipping reasons) and I need the crank
> >> rebuilt. I can do the crank at the local shop, but need a
> source for
> >> parts. Has anyone found a good source for rotax parts that has
> >> reasonable prices ?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> --------
> >> Avid C W/582
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69331#69331
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: need info on 582 rebuilding |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Leni:
I am sure you can appreciate that there are some changes in the aircraft
engines form the run of the mill Ski-Doo. Be aware that most of these
engines have been detuned to an extent and the power and torque curves
modified to make them more reliable and usable for aviation. Keep in mind
that if the engine on the sled goes walk about you lose the race.... If the
fan on the front or back of the plane stops you have good reason to start
sweating.
IMHO if you use the specs of the racing engines with the envelope of the
aviation engine you will have a great set up.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:05 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
>
> I am kinda hard headed at times as I have been racing sleds
> and we run those WAY harder and longer than anyone in their
> right mind would run an engine you are flying behind. With
> that being said, I feel that if I can rebuild / straighten
> cranks in race engines (that are straighter than the NEW
> factory crank) that go for 100 miles at a time on the bar
> (WOT 8,200 RPM+) time after time and stay together year after
> year, I am not shy about rebuilding this engine. I am also
> not a stupid pilot who takes alot of unnessisary chances with
> his life (well ok there have been a few times lol). I dont
> buy into the arguments that you have to buy NEW cranks
> everytime. If you take it down, inspect, mike, etc. and find
> it within tolerances and put it back together to specs then I
> dont have one second thought about flying behind it.
>
> Just my thoughts
>
> Leni
>
> --------
> Avid C W/582
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69358#69358
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Another video |
Thanks Dee, I hope others do some as well. I also hope everyone
enjoys them as much I enjoy making them. If anyone does one and wants
it hosted I can do that or just put on Google video or youtube but the
quality will go down hill a bit.
I am a firm believer in the phrase " picture is worth a thousand words"
and a video possibly ten thousand words. The one I put up last night has
been downloaded 61 times so far and I appreciate the comments positive
or negative. Would be neat to get some Kitfox videos together and make
a Kitfox style hardcore flick and of course right from the trailer
park :)
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Dee Young
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:57 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Another video
Excellent vidio, Thanks Dave.
Dee
Do not archive.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: need info on 582 rebuilding |
South of Montreal in the Eastern Townships (Magog??). I know I'm being
picky but I went to school there! ;-)
Noel
Being born and raised in Montreal Canada, where the snowmobile was
invented.... everyone did LOL! Anyway, if I was to rebuild a sled
engine
I probably would do it myself and understand where your coming from.
But,
going to a pro that ONLY touches aviation Rotax's was my personal choice
for
me.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: need info on 582 rebuilding |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Give Bob a call.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:34 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
>
> ok just to get it back on topic, in the original post I did
> indeed ask for ROTAX parts...not cheap aftermarket stuff
> (remember I said I was not a stupid pilot). I was just
> looking for a REASONABLE price source. I know there are a
> few out there that are not out to rape you and these are the
> guys I am looking for.
>
> And to refute the other, there is a very big difference in
> building an engine to make 1/8 mile runs that make big hp....
> another animal all together to build one to last and run smooth....
>
> off the box now
>
> Leni
>
> oh yeah... do not archive
>
> --------
> Avid C W/582
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69386#69386
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I'm surprised that Warp sets it's blades by the tip angle. I thought the
greatest action on a propeller occurs at a distance about 2/3the length of
the prop measured from the centre out. Each blade should be measured
independently to locate the place to attach the prop protractor. The tips
of the blades should be a lot finer pitch as the tip speed is considerably
higher.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:28 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> I set with Warp gauge originally but never set it to any
> accurate degree -
> just all three blades the same
> And I just kept changing accordingly about 3 tries and it was good.
>
> I have used a laser as well and it shine on the wall of
> hangar 25 feet away
> and all three blades hit the same spot.
> I know know the Warp is around 10 or 11 degrees and a GSC 68"
> 15 to 16.5
> deg is good as well but remember WARP measure angle at tip
> and GSC part way
> in ( maybe about 75% or way out from root , Where ever the
> GSC protractor
> fits tight.
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:54 PM
> Subject: RE: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
> > <janderson412@hotmail.com>
> >
> > If you don't set the prop toa degree setting, what dod you
> use as a
> > starting datum?
> > I use an electronic level and sice doing so has made a diff
> to smoothness
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
> > Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 06:55:36 -0400
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> >
> > Guy, please post some pics of the Exhaust There is a
> length in the Rotax
> > manual for length from exhaust port to the muffler
> including the cone(
> > that is the part that Skystar modified with a few bends as well as
> > chopping off about 1 " or so of the y pipe manifold but if
> does seem to
> > work ok.)
> >
> > Timing etc -- call Rotax Bob Robertson. I have called him
> for advice many
> > times and it always free but keep in mind I buy all rotax
> stuff from him
> > as well.
> > I think I read that your engine sat idle over 10 years
> during build time ?
> > Possible issues there like crank seals but ask Bob.
> >
> > Your prop sounds way over propped at your 13 degree
> setting. What was it
> > at before you changed it ? . I don't measure my WARP with
> degrees but
> > set all the blades all the same. I did measure last week
> though and I
> > think it was around 10 degrees or so at the tip . Yours
> being a 2 inch
> > large dimater I would stay closer to 10 degrees. ( mine is
> 68" ) I set
> > by RPM and how it works but I think WARP should be 10 to 11
> degrees area.
> > I used the Warp protractor thingy and re pitched to all the
> same. I think
> > I made it 1/2 degree finer approx. and my static went from
> 5850 5900 to
> > 6150 - 6200 and my in flight WOT went from 6600 to 6900
> or so. I also
> > dropped the clip on carb needles one notch to the bottom
> notch so it all
> > the way rich now. and egts have come down from 1200+ to
> 1100 or a bit
> > less in cruise. Temps here are average 30F to 45F degrees
> this week. and
> > our elevation is about 950 asl.
> >
> > I would set your prop to give 6200 to 6400 rpm static
> to start and
> > coarsen it about 1/4 degree at a time from there as needed.
> Assuming you
> > have stock jetting ( I think the needle is a 11G) the clip
> should be on
> > second notch from bottom of needle but if EGTS get over
> 1200 in cruise I
> > would drop one more notch. I think you said that you have
> some EIS or
> > engine gauges etc ? How is the impulse achieved ? A tiny
> tach will
> > confirm or an optical tach that your gauge reading is
> infact accurate.
> > Tiny Tach --order one from Bob when you call him and he
> will send out
> > overnight. EGT confirm it by the look of the spark plugs.
> >
> > Do you have another 582 owner near you with allot of
> experience? I would
> > get him over to help you out as well is possible.
> Personally I Think
> > you are getting in way to deep on the technical stuff and
> you have most
> > likey some simple issues here to resolve.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
> >
> >
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> >>
> >>At 11:44 AM 10/14/2006, you wrote:
> >>>You need me to do a movie of different props on 582 Kitfox
> ? I have 3
> >>>different ones here and if anyone reads this like
> Tennessee props or
> >>>Culver
> >>>props, I would ask if you would like some good coverage
> on a Kitfox 582
> >>>to
> >>>send me your best prop. I have 2 similar planes to try
> them on so we
> >>>can
> >>>get different results and post them for all to see.
> >>>
> >>>If you want bragging rights for your prop -- contact me
> >>
> >>Thanks for the offer. I'm still fooling around. My last
> attempt was to
> >>increase the pitch to 13.5d at the tip. It was really
> interesting. I had
> >>6000 static; looked great. Then I tried to take off. I
> rolled maybe 50
> >>feet and the engine started to wind down. By the time I got
> to 30mph the
> >>engine was down to 4400rpm and it was clear I was going
> nowhere! I tried
> >>it twice with the exact same results. So it appears I was
> very near the
> >>torque curve with my previous 12 degrees.
> >>
> >>I'm going through the engine now trying to discern why I
> would be low on
> >>horsepower. Jan at JC Propellor is trying to help me. He
> has a contact
> >>with a similar configuration who tops out at 102mph. Using Martin
> >>Hollman's speed program I'd have to have either 3 square
> feet more drag
> >>area, (40% more,) or be running 45hp max in my 582, or some
> combination
> >>thereof. It's unlikely I have more than 1 square foot more
> drag area so
> >>that would mean I was running 54hp max. I've got good
> compression and good
> >>EGT's, but I haven't checked the ignition timing, rotary
> valve timing, or
> >>exhaust pipe.
> >>
> >>Question for the 582 folk: Is there a way to check the
> ignition timing
> >>electronically or with a strobe? I don't want to pull the
> engine quite
> >>yet.
> >>
> >>I'm going to post pictures of my exhaust for comparison /
> evaluation by
> >>the 582 experts. It's definitely NOT Rotax stock.
> >>
> >>
> >>Guy Buchanan
> >>K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals
> > http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid 0731
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Another video |
I have not flown my 'fox yet. As fall closes in I have flown very little
this year and from time to time I think I might have been better off
just buying an old 150. The films like the ones from Paul Seehafer and
the film from the trailer park remind me why I considered the Kitfox in
the first place.
I got the new spars partially riveted and am waiting for a shipment of
rivets to finish. I can heat the garage to glue up and cure the epoxy
but fabric work will have to wait for natural heat. It's going to be a
long winter.
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Could do, Ted, but I have found a reliable web based company that has a
great site for bearing shopping and I have found virtually everything I have
ever needed there including The .75" ID X 1" OD ball bearings I used on the
control stick of my video camera mount.
There is a local group that does an annual unlimited pinewood derby race for
the dads of Cub Scouts. I have purchased 1/8" X 1/4" bearings for my one
pound full suspension current champion unlimited race car. This size
bearing comes in several configurations, sealed and unsealed and SS or
ceramic. For this application an unsealed bearing is best as all the lube
can be removed - lube adds a little rolling resistance and in a 20 foot
gravity run every bit helps.
With small bearings, my guess is that if they don't stock it, it would have
to be custom made. The typical no sales tax and here in less than a week.
Some times it takes that long to just find time to get into town and I dare
say the .75 X 1 bearing would have to have been special ordered.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek"
> <temco@telusplanet.net>
>
> Lowell
>
> Couldn't you just go down to a commercial bearing supplier and give them
> the
> OD and ID of the bearing you need and have them match up those dimensions
> with a good industrial sealed, permanently lubed unit??
>
> Just a thought
>
> Ted
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> Sent: October 21, 2006 3:12 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Several years ago I opted to change out to the Homebuilders Special dual
> fork tailwheel. I got the immediate quieting that others have mentioned.
> I
>
> also ordered the spare sealed bearing as the word was that the original
> bearings were unsealed and un-lubeable.
>
> Well, the unsealed part is true but the un-lubeable part is only partly
> true. There is a grease fitting, but to force grease into the bearings
> you
> would have to fill the entire hub cavity between the bearings - probably
> about three or four ounces of grease. My guess is that with that much
> lubricant in the hub and unsealed, you would eventually throw all that
> grease onto the underside of the aft fuselage. Essentially, the original
> equipment bearings are junk and the provision for lubrication is haphazard
> at best - a real disappointment in an otherwise great tailwheel.
>
> In short, I was getting more tail wheel noise than I was used to so I
> lifted
>
> the tail and sure enough the bearings were shot. I removed the wheel and
> bearings and pressed in the new ones and voila - the replacement bearings
> from ACS were 5/8" ID whereas I needed 1/2" ID bearings as exact
> replacements for the originals. So much for buying early and keeping them
> on hand. If course I didn't check the ID against the axle until I had
> them
> pressed into the hub - dumb me again.
>
> Just a general heads-up here. ACS sold the bearing as an exact
> replacement
> upgade. I know of others that have replaced them. What is your
> experience
> with the replacement bearings? I have ordered new bearings from my
> favorite
>
> bearing shop and they are a bit more expensive, but I know for sure what I
> will be getting - dual contact sealed bearings, 1.375" OD X .5" ID with
> retaining ring.
>
> Lowell
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: need info on 582 rebuilding |
In a message dated 10/22/2006 9:32:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes:
South of Montreal in the Eastern Townships (Magog??). I know I'm being
picky but I went to school there! ;-)
I am mostly from Bedford PQ know it?
Lived in Point Claire and Dollard as well.
Graduated from Stansted College many years ago LOL
Dave
Message 19
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| Subject: | Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
Regarding the Antifreeze issue ( phosphate and silicate free) does
anyone have some brand names of acceptable products for our Rotax
engines?
Same question for the oil used in the injection .
Other than the Wt. and Balance issue of the starter being located
further forward, why ? or how? is the "E" box different, or
better, than the "C" box unit? and will both fit the same motor mounts?
Sorry for all the questions, but am trying to not make an expensive
mistake with my new toy.
Gary
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Another video for you guys |
and GUY !!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
17 megs ... I'll put it on to download over night. Wish I could get ADSL.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:47 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: oops for got link Re: Kitfox-List: Another video for
> you guys and GUY !!
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:08 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Another video for you guys and GUY !!
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> >
> > Guy , Here is some footdage from today. Quickly edited
> to get to you.
> > I even put ads on there to help out with th massive
> bandwidth you guys use
> > :)
> > Last movie I put up been downloaded 627 times now .
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > Guy do we call you a bit short of 300 now ? :)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> >>
> >> At 08:44 AM 10/21/2006, you wrote:
> >>>I just in from flying last 2 hours. did about 10 take offs and
> >>>landings
> >>>when i got back ..... and all were 150 to 200 feet at th most
> >>>wind about 3 knots or less temp 5 C elevation 950 '
> >>>Warp set at 6200 static. cruies at 5800 85 to 88 or so
> at 500 agl
> >>
> >> Dave,
> >> I timed your Kitfox video and got about 7.2
> seconds from first
> >> motion to obvious vertical motion. This works out to about
> 212' to 40mph.
> >> I timed my early morning take-off today at 8.66 seconds.
> (A little crude
> >> since it's hard to fiddle with the watch while taking
> off!) This works
> >> out to 254' to 40mph. I'll have to check my measurements,
> since 254' is
> >> not near as bad as the 540' I originally estimated.
> >>
> >>
> >> Guy Buchanan
> >> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
Hello Dean:
It is nice hearing from you. Congrats on the new engine. Why did you put in
a new one?
I think keeping our kitfoxes flying with the demise of Skystar is no problem
at all. First, there is John & Debra McBean of Kitfox Aircraft LLC in
Caldwell ID. They purchased the assets of Skystar and are continuing the
business. Second, there is Noel & Yoshie Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation in
Lewistown MT. They have an excellent builder assistance program. Third,
there is the kitfox list. I think you will find there the answer to most any
problem. Fourth, I think most maintenance problems are related to accessory
items and not the airframe per se, unless you really bend it.
I don't think there is anything to worry about.
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Tresner [mailto:dtresner@mac.com]
Sent: Sunday, 22 October, 2006 02:54
Subject: Kitfox
Peter,
I just put a new engine in my plane (the 912S) and I had some trouble with
getting the new mount from Sportplane. I ordered the engine from Lockwood
and that was fine, of course. But I was wondering if you had any concerns
about keeping our birds flying in the post-Skystar era?
Dean
Message 22
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| Subject: | Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Stop the presses...I just found a product that might do the job for my
pot scrubber needs...aluminum "Lint Snares"(patented name), a product
that "slips easily onto end of laundry hose". I was looking for more SS
scrubbing pads when I saw these. They are much small than the SS
pads...about 2" in diameter, and about an inch thick. They unroll to
form a sock that you attach to the end of the laundry hose where it
dumps into the sink, preventing lint from going into the sink. They
look like a prophylactic when unrolled, but I wouldn't try using it for
that function...kinda scratchy, I'd think. : )
But in their unrolled form, they look like little doughnuts that can be
stuffed in my small heat muffs, and they should perform pretty well in
the radiation/convection/heat transfer job that they will (maybe) be
asked to do.
Lynn
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight N422NL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Joel,
Great report. Re-pitch and report again. Congratualtions.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 9:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: First Flight N422NL
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes"
> <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
>
> It's an airplane!
> I just wanted to share my joy with all of you whose encouragement and
> advice have kept me working towards this day. A friend of mine who is an
> A&P, very experienced pilot and owner of Avian flight center
> www.avianflight.com was PIC for the first flight. He reports that the
> wing and flaperon rigging are right on but that she needs some right
> rudder. She is also apparently under-propped as he could not use more than
> 1/2 throttle without exceeding 5800 RPM on the 912 ULS and cruised at a
> blistering 55 mph.
>
> Joel
> Model 5 912 ULS GTA CS prop
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more.then map the best
> route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Another video |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Why natural heat for the fabric work? I did my covering in Feb and Mar
of the year, in Michigan, about 10-40 degrees F outside. I heated with
gas, kept it 60-80 inside and granted, I paid for it, but the work
continued.
Lynn
Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
do not archive
On Sunday, October 22, 2006, at 10:46 AM, Dave G. wrote:
> I have not flown my 'fox yet. As fall closes in I have flown very
> little this year and from time to time I think I might have been
> better off just buying an old 150. The films like the ones from Paul
> Seehafer and the film from the trailer park remind me why I considered
> the Kitfox in the first place.
>
> I got the new spars partially riveted and am waiting for a shipment of
> rivets to finish. I can heat the garage to glue up and cure the epoxy
> but fabric work will have to wait for natural heat. It's going to be a
> long winter.
>
> ===========================================================
>
>
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Hi, Jim
I just checked the ACS catalogue and you are right, they don't use the
phrase exact replacement, but the catalog entry is in the same box as the
replacement wheels and says,
"These high quality bearings are superior to standard bearings furnished
with homebuilder tailwheels" I made an assumption that they were the same
bearings. Incidentally the ones ACS sent to me had a snap ring where the
flange was on the old ones. The side to side fit was exact and I made shims
like you did, but made mine of Delron.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Shumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
> Lowell
>
> I had the same experience with the bearing size. I just made a sleeve of
> 1/2 inch ID x 5/8 OD steel tubing over the axle. I also noted that the
> new bearings did not have a ridge around their outside circumference to
> trap the wheel between the bearings so in installed a couple of 1/2 inch
> fender washers on the axle also. Just like on a control arm with a ball
> and socket joint. My recollection is that the exact replacement statement
> came from a list member who recommended them and not from ACS.
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 2:12:24 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Several years ago I opted to change out to the Homebuilders Special dual
> fork tailwheel. I got the immediate quieting that others have mentioned.
> I
> also ordered the spare sealed bearing as the word was that the original
> bearings were unsealed and un-lubeable.
>
> Well, the unsealed part is true but the un-lubeable part is only partly
> true. There is a grease fitting, but to force grease into the bearings
> you
> would have to fill the entire hub cavity between the bearings - probably
> about three or four ounces of grease. My guess is that with that much
> lubricant in the hub and unsealed, you would eventually throw all that
> grease onto the underside of the aft fuselage. Essentially, the original
> equipment bearings are junk and the provision for lubrication is haphazard
> at best - a real disappointment in an otherwise great tailwheel.
>
> In short, I was getting more tail wheel noise than I was used to so I
> lifted
> the tail and sure enough the bearings were shot. I removed the wheel and
> bearings and pressed in the new ones and voila - the replacement bearings
> from ACS were 5/8" ID whereas I needed 1/2" ID bearings as exact
> replacements for the originals. So much for buying early and keeping them
> on hand. If course I didn't check the ID against the axle until I had
> them
> pressed into the hub - dumb me again.
>
> Just a general heads-up here. ACS sold the bearing as an exact
> replacement
> upgade. I know of others that have replaced them. What is your
> experience
> with the replacement bearings? I have ordered new bearings from my
> favorite
> bearing shop and they are a bit more expensive, but I know for sure what I
> will be getting - dual contact sealed bearings, 1.375" OD X .5" ID with
> retaining ring.
>
> Lowell
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight N422NL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 09:00 PM 10/21/2006, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
>
>It's an airplane!
Congratulations Joel! When do you fly it? I hope soon. It will be a thrill,
I can promise you that!
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 27
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:47 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>Could do, Ted, but I have found a reliable web based company that has a
>great site for bearing shopping and I have found virtually everything I have
>ever needed there including The .75" ID X 1" OD ball bearings I used on the
>control stick of my video camera mount.
C'mon Lowell. Don't be shy. What's the name?
Guy
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 07:47 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>Regarding the Antifreeze issue ( phosphate and silicate free) does
>anyone have some brand names of acceptable products for our Rotax engines?
>
I'm using Dexcool and/or Zerex. I've not found any listing of acceptable
brands.
>Same question for the oil used in the injection .
Pennzoil 2-cycle for air cooled engines. (Unfortunately you've probably
started the twice-dreaded 2-cycle oil debate again.)
>
Guy
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
I'm not clear on whether this is a good idea, aluminum will burn under some
circumstances and in the presence of heat and moisture it will oxidize even
if it doesn't burn when you are dealing with very thin stuff. You might be
better off with the stainless. I doubt that heat transfer is a big part of
the function anyway. I figure what you are after is turbulence and latency
in the air's transit through your system. You could do as well with a series
of disks clamped to the pipe if I'm visualising what you want properly.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Stop the presses...I just found a product that might do the job for my pot
> scrubber needs...aluminum "Lint Snares"(patented name), a product
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
I think any of the Dexcool compatible antifreeze solutions will be what
you want. They are almost universally orange colour. I'd go with the
premixed or buy distilled water to mix them.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Glasgow
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ?
Regarding the Antifreeze issue ( phosphate and silicate free) does
anyone have some brand names of acceptable products for our Rotax
engines?
Same question for the oil used in the injection .
Other than the Wt. and Balance issue of the starter being located
further forward, why ? or how? is the "E" box different, or
better, than the "C" box unit? and will both fit the same motor mounts?
Sorry for all the questions, but am trying to not make an expensive
mistake with my new toy.
Gary
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 08:44 AM 10/21/2006, you wrote:
>Guy, go to page 25 section 10
>http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d00287.pdf
Dave,
Thanks for the reference. This is much better than the old thing I
received with my engine.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: need info on 582 rebuilding |
Me too.
Class of '69
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Aerobatics@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding
In a message dated 10/22/2006 9:32:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes:
South of Montreal in the Eastern Townships (Magog??). I know I'm being
picky but I went to school there! ;-)
I am mostly from Bedford PQ know it?
Lived in Point Claire and Dollard as well.
Graduated from Stansted College many years ago LOL
Dave
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Another video |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
The garage is 20 feet square. and I worry about the fumes. I have the choice
between an electric industrial heater or a kerosene radiant heater. Clearly
the open flame kerosene heater is a poor choice around Polyfiber products
but the electric one has open contacts that spark as they cycle. I've been
warned enough about the effects on me and the extreme flammability of MEK,
it just seems safer to wait.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another video
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Why natural heat for the fabric work? I did my covering in Feb and Mar of
> the year, in Michigan, about 10-40 degrees F outside. I heated with gas,
> kept it 60-80 inside and granted, I paid for it, but the work continued.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
> do not archive
>
> On Sunday, October 22, 2006, at 10:46 AM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>> I have not flown my 'fox yet. As fall closes in I have flown very little
>> this year and from time to time I think I might have been better off just
>> buying an old 150. The films like the ones from Paul Seehafer and the
>> film from the trailer park remind me why I considered the Kitfox in the
>> first place.
>>
>> I got the new spars partially riveted and am waiting for a shipment of
>> rivets to finish. I can heat the garage to glue up and cure the epoxy but
>> fabric work will have to wait for natural heat. It's going to be a long
>> winter.
>>
>> ===========================================================
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | First Flight N422NL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I'll never forget my first solo. I don't think I've ever been so nervous.
I also won't ever forget my first flight in my Kitfox III-A. The C172 lost
all it's appeal in about 5 seconds. The wow factor is still fantastic.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Guy Buchanan
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:23 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight N422NL
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 09:00 PM 10/21/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes"
> <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
> >
> >It's an airplane!
>
> Congratulations Joel! When do you fly it? I hope soon. It
> will be a thrill,
> I can promise you that!
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
In the United States and countries bound by treaty the following applies:
The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently
misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the
Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following note.)
There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See
"Copyright Registration."
This from: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wci The Us
Copyright Office.
In short if a person creates something it is protected. I guess technically
the video created by Dave is copyrighted automatically if he claims that
right.
A photographer ownes the right to each of his thousands of photographs and
a professional photographer usually puts a note on the photo to that effect.
To inundate the copyright office with paperwork on every photo ever taken
would bring that office to a quick halt.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
> The most common way of retaining a copyright is to make a copy of what
> ever
> it is you want to copyright, Place it in a sealed envelope and mail it to
> yourself via registered mail. That way you have dates and signatures of
> the
> postal clerk. When the letter arrives don't open it but put it in a safe
> deposit box only to be opened in court if the need occurs. You can also
> get
> the bank manager to sign the envelope before you put it in the box.
>
> Any one else claiming copyright will have to come up with hard evidence
> that
> they had a copy of item earlier than the witnessed one you put in the safe
> deposit box.
>
> There is some question with copyright on graphics. Some time ago a man
> copied a stamp and put it on a T shirt. He was immediately charged with
> copyright infringement, he won the case because of a little known part of
> the law in the country where the first copyright was held. The original
> copyright only extended to copies up to 2.5 times the size of the original
> print. I don't think this loophole is in Canadian law but it was in
> Newfoundland law, when Newfoundland was a separate Dominion.
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Michel Verheughe
>> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:11 AM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Copyright issues WAS: How To Fly a Kitfox
>>
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2006, at 5:03 AM, <michaelgibbs@cox.net> wrote:
>> > In the United States, you do not need to register a
>> copyright with the
>> > government to make it legal, therefore you cannot rely on
>> whether or
>> > not it is listed.
>>
>> It is the same in Norway, Mike, and I suppose, the same in most
>> westerly countries. I know e.g. that Singapore has different
>> copyright
>> rules, (and probably North Korea :-) but, otherwise, you risk much by
>> copying, anywhere.
>> Many years ago, I was asked to appear in a trial, as an adviser,
>> regarding the copying of a yacht's hull. A very difficult
>> case because
>> how do you define a hull shape? Looking at both line plan
>> drawings, had
>> to give my opinion as to if one was the copy of the other, or if they
>> were two distinct drawings.
>> In typography, it is impossible to say if the shape of letters are a
>> copy or not. Therefore typographers copyright (or rather, ITC does it
>> for them) typeface names, only. That's why Macintosh had
>> "Times" (they
>> paid for the right to use the name) while Microsoft had "Tms," a copy
>> of "Times." Hermann Zapf created the beautiful Optima typeface, but
>> printshops had mostly "Omega," a copy of it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Michel
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
Generally the antifreeze is the new "red" stuff. The important thing is not
to use tap water to mix with the antifreeze. If the antifreeze bottle says
anything about having silicates give it the deep six.
when it comes to the oil Rotax says specification TC not TW3 or anything
else. The problem starts in that a lot of oil manufacturers have oils they
say are the same as TC but don't carry the official Spec. To be sure buy
the Bombardier oil in bulk if you can get it. Another popular oil is
Pennzoil TC but I don't think it's available north of the 49th.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Glasgow
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ?
Regarding the Antifreeze issue ( phosphate and silicate free) does anyone
have some brand names of acceptable products for our Rotax engines?
Same question for the oil used in the injection .
Other than the Wt. and Balance issue of the starter being located further
forward, why ? or how? is the "E" box different, or better, than the
"C" box unit? and will both fit the same motor mounts?
Sorry for all the questions, but am trying to not make an expensive mistake
with my new toy.
Gary
Message 37
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| Subject: | Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
Sorry hit the send button too soon.
About the PSRU (Propeller Speed Reduction Unit) AKA the "box" the "C"
box
has the starter on the Magneto end of the crankshaft. The torque
required
to start the engine puts undue stress on the crankshaft and it cracks at
the
end effectively cutting the engine ignition. The "E" box has the
starter
mounted on the PSRU itself. That makes the starter easier to inspect
and
removes the heavy torques from the mag end of the crankshaft. The down
sides to the "E" box are having the starter out front next to the prop
changes the CG of the airplane from the "C" box and of course co$t to
purchase is higher.
the "C" box has a hole in the propeller shaft that can be used for
adjustable props. I don't know if the "E" box has this hole but I
suspect
it does.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Glasgow
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ?
Regarding the Antifreeze issue ( phosphate and silicate free) does
anyone
have some brand names of acceptable products for our Rotax engines?
Same question for the oil used in the injection .
Other than the Wt. and Balance issue of the starter being located
further
forward, why ? or how? is the "E" box different, or better, than
the
"C" box unit? and will both fit the same motor mounts?
Sorry for all the questions, but am trying to not make an expensive
mistake
with my new toy.
Gary
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Me too. I found that I have a difference between the blade pitch of up to 1
degree if I use the tips as a reference. Warp strongly disagreed with me
but, So be it. I checked the pitch angle of all three blades every two
inches from the hub out to the tip (after setting the pitch at the 3/4
position). As I neared the last three inches at the tip, the angles started
to drift up to 1 degree in error. All reading from the hub out to that
point were very close. Now, I use the 3/4 position for all my sittings.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> I'm surprised that Warp sets it's blades by the tip angle. I thought the
Message 39
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| Subject: | Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Well let's face it ... It's that time of the year again :-)
I think most of us more true to our oil than to our ladies...
Noel
> Pennzoil 2-cycle for air cooled engines. (Unfortunately
> you've probably
> started the twice-dreaded 2-cycle oil debate again.)
> >
>
> Guy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
Thanks All
Here in Montana ( Lower 48's) tho at times it is warmer in Alaska.
It is time to get things winterized.
Don't want to start a debate on oils and antifreezes ---I've read
Rotaxes recommendations, but they don't seem to like to mention brand
names- which I suppose I can understand.
It is difficult however at times to get the info off of the product
packaging and I was sure that this group would have some info to share.
Again thanks !!!
I still haven't flown my plane as I have been preparing a workshop /
hanger -trying to beat the snowflakes, (today I finish the insulation)
- and I need a biannual, and condition inspection also. I have
recently moved back here and after a 30 year absence I am having quite a
time finding new services and businesses to use.
(But it's fun to be retired !!! except now, I wonder how I ever got
anything done before retirement?) .
Gary
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
Gary , No argument needed.
Rotax recommends a APT-TC rated oil NOT TCW3 outboard oil
Pennzoil for Air cooled and Bombardier XPS mineral are readily
available for oil injection systems. These oils both work and are
proven.
Some will like to use synthetics and if you run them at least twice a
week you " might" fare well using them. I use mineral oil and am at
over 60 hours on plugs in 582 now and no troubles..
Antifreeze. Dexcool and Havoline are 2 that come to mind. Distilled
water is available at most grocery stores.
Good luck on annual and get it flying . Are you a Ski flyer ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Glasgow
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ?
Thanks All
Here in Montana ( Lower 48's) tho at times it is warmer in Alaska.
It is time to get things winterized.
Don't want to start a debate on oils and antifreezes ---I've read
Rotaxes recommendations, but they don't seem to like to mention brand
names- which I suppose I can understand.
It is difficult however at times to get the info off of the product
packaging and I was sure that this group would have some info to share.
Again thanks !!!
I still haven't flown my plane as I have been preparing a workshop /
hanger -trying to beat the snowflakes, (today I finish the insulation)
- and I need a biannual, and condition inspection also. I have
recently moved back here and after a 30 year absence I am having quite a
time finding new services and businesses to use.
(But it's fun to be retired !!! except now, I wonder how I ever
got anything done before retirement?) .
Gary
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
Sorry, forgot Gear box oil 85w- 140 is what Rtoax recomends.
85W 90 can be used as well.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Glasgow
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ?
Thanks All
Here in Montana ( Lower 48's) tho at times it is warmer in Alaska.
It is time to get things winterized.
Don't want to start a debate on oils and antifreezes ---I've read
Rotaxes recommendations, but they don't seem to like to mention brand
names- which I suppose I can understand.
It is difficult however at times to get the info off of the product
packaging and I was sure that this group would have some info to share.
Again thanks !!!
I still haven't flown my plane as I have been preparing a workshop /
hanger -trying to beat the snowflakes, (today I finish the insulation)
- and I need a biannual, and condition inspection also. I have
recently moved back here and after a 30 year absence I am having quite a
time finding new services and businesses to use.
(But it's fun to be retired !!! except now, I wonder how I ever
got anything done before retirement?) .
Gary
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Don, The WARP protractor fits nicely on the tip and I have had good success
doing it there. are you saying that the blades are not all uniform from
Root to tip ? I have no checked but I might . Did you see my latest
Trailer park video? 17 megs http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/ if you
think my prop is not working properly , well I hope to get a bit more
performance yet in that case ...... :) anyone else ever wonder what a
Kitfox has for breakfast ? A Zenith 701 :)
I just new GSC wood blade in last week and anxious to try them out soon on
this 582 Kitfox. My old ones near 500 hours and I figured it time for some
new ones. They sure look good out of the box !!
Now back to Warp prop. I really don't think it matters how you set you
prop as long as all blade at the same pitch , track properly and are torqued
properly and regularly. As long as you get the 6000 to 6200 static rpm and a
decent cruise . Just watch those EGTs.
Dave
http://www.warpdriveprops.com/protractor.html
2. Setting degrees of pitch. ATTENTION! Always set the degrees of pitch at
the tip of the blade! Determine the amount of pitch you want in the
propeller and rotate the protractor wheel the same number of marks from your
starting point. Example: If your aircraft is sitting level, your starting
point would be zero. If you want 10 degrees of pitch, move your protractor
wheel ten marks in the outer scale.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
> Me too. I found that I have a difference between the blade pitch of up to
> 1 degree if I use the tips as a reference. Warp strongly disagreed with
> me but, So be it. I checked the pitch angle of all three blades every two
> inches from the hub out to the tip (after setting the pitch at the 3/4
> position). As I neared the last three inches at the tip, the angles
> started to drift up to 1 degree in error. All reading from the hub out to
> that point were very close. Now, I use the 3/4 position for all my
> sittings.
>
> Don Smythe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>> I'm surprised that Warp sets it's blades by the tip angle. I thought the
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
You will not burn aluminum on a rotax Muffler. Alum melts around 1200
and muffler I doubt is hotter than 300 F or so.
1200f temps will found in the y pipe manifold only and the temp decreases
as you travel done the cone to the Muffler.
Now lets get some videos done guys and then we can have a contest like who
has the best smoke system on their Kitfox :)
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
>
> I'm not clear on whether this is a good idea, aluminum will burn under
> some circumstances and in the presence of heat and moisture it will
> oxidize even if it doesn't burn when you are dealing with very thin stuff.
> You might be better off with the stainless. I doubt that heat transfer is
> a big part of the function anyway. I figure what you are after is
> turbulence and latency in the air's transit through your system. You could
> do as well with a series of disks clamped to the pipe if I'm visualising
> what you want properly.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> Stop the presses...I just found a product that might do the job for my
>> pot scrubber needs...aluminum "Lint Snares"(patented name), a product
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL |
Awesome Joel! This must be a rewarding time in your life. I appreciate your openness
in letting us know you chose to have an experienced pilot do your first
flight. As I am still building, I don't think a week goes by that I fight with
myself on this somewhat personal topic. As a low-time pilot (85 hrs in C-172's)
would I be ready to take on a plane that "fly's before you are ready"? The
options are to get some transition training and hope everything feels the same
or... have an experienced Kitfoxer or professional test pilot take it up. The
rebuttal on this thinking is sometimes posed as "I would never have anyone test-fly
a plane that I built". This statement certainly has merrit, however, which
is the wise option?
I recently looked into life insurance from one of the aviation-savy outfits.
I found it interesting (as I was answering preliminary questions over the phone)
that he would ask if I will be the test pilot. I said I hadn't decided and
he moved on. I am assuming the premium would be higher If I did it. I thought
I would throw this topic out there to see how others who have gone before have
dealt with it.
Dan B.
Mesa 314DW
Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
I'll never forget my first solo. I don't think I've ever been so nervous.
I also won't ever forget my first flight in my Kitfox III-A. The C172 lost
all it's appeal in about 5 seconds. The wow factor is still fantastic.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Guy Buchanan
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:23 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight N422NL
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan
>
> At 09:00 PM 10/21/2006, you wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes"
>
> >
> >It's an airplane!
>
> Congratulations Joel! When do you fly it? I hope soon. It
> will be a thrill,
> I can promise you that!
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 46
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> Several years ago I opted to change out to the Homebuilders Special
> dual fork tailwheel. I got the immediate quieting that others have
> mentioned. I also ordered the spare sealed bearing as the word was
> that the original bearings were unsealed and un-lubeable.
Hello Lowell,
One and half year ago, I also changed my Maule tailwheel for a
Homebuilders Special, but not the dual fork, the single fork one. Like
you, I also read that the wheel bearing (not the swivel axle bearing)
couldn't be greased. When installing it, I noticed that there was a
grease nipple on both the swivel and the wheel axle. I tried to grease
both but the wheel one wouldn't accept grease.
... then I went flying. I have now maybe 100 hours on that tailwheel.
Should I worry?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Another video |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dave and Diane <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Dave G.
Of course you want the Kitfox; and, no you didn't go wrong by not getting an
old beat to crap 150 with a layer of bauxite in all the seams.
We all have a moment or two "How did I get myself into this much work" while
building, but that passes quickly when you see some video clips, hear of
others successes and strive to get your own plane together - you'll get it
done!
And don't give up on things for the winter. Even without a lot of heat, not
every day is minus 38 F, and the fabric can be glued to the parts (although
you want to leave extra time to thoroughly dry), The iron will work just fine
to streach the fabric even if the garage is not warm. The first brush on coat
of poly brush can be put on (again - lots of extra time to dry) - , the cold
does not interfere with rib lacing at all. If a person gets that much done
before spring, it is a pretty big part of the covering process.
Spraying polybrush or polyspray is where it gets more than a bit awkward in
the cold - it just doesn't work well without heat; and, making an ash of
one's self because a heater and spray gun were operated in the same place
isn't any good.
A person can always look through the project and do something else if the
weather keeps a person out of one task. I know I didn't exactly start on page
one and go consecutively through the assembly manual - a guy can always find
something to do even if one cannot use spray materials due to the temp or
humidity.
Keep on keeping on....
Sincerely,
Dave S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Sunday 22 October 2006 9:46 am, Dave G. wrote:
> I have not flown my 'fox yet. As fall closes in I have flown very little
> this year and from time to time I think I might have been better off just
> buying an old 150. The films like the ones from Paul Seehafer and the film
> from the trailer park remind me why I considered the Kitfox in the first
> place.
>
> I got the new spars partially riveted and am waiting for a shipment of
> rivets to finish. I can heat the garage to glue up and cure the epoxy but
> fabric work will have to wait for natural heat. It's going to be a long
> winter.
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Unless we have different Warp protractors, the protractor fits anyplace you
want to put it. I'm saying that my blades started to loose uniformity
during the last 2-3 inches of the tips. The blades from the hub out to the
last couple inches were very uniform. That's why adjusting at the 3/4 point
makes good sense to me. That's the point where the prop is developing max
lift. I would think that it's most important for the props to be exact in
pitch at the 3/4 point. You can set the pitch any place you want for your
own day to day adjusting just use the exact same point on each blade. I
forget the exact number but if you pitch one blade at 20" from hub (example)
and another blade at 21" you have just put in a 1 degree pitch error between
the two blades. Again, I checked this but forget exactly how much error but
enough to stress that the exact distance from the hub is important.
It is only my theory but the tips of the warp props are thin and narrow
possibly causing a very slight "warp" coming out of the molds. Ha....That's
why they call them Warp props. This is where Warp Drive told me,
"impossible". To check this on any prop is real easy. Next time you adjust
all three props at the tips simply slide the Warp protractor down the blade
to an exact distance from the hub (around 3/4 length) and record all three
numbers. No matter what the angle, they all 3 should read the same.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> Don, The WARP protractor fits nicely on the tip and I have had good
> success doing it there. are you saying that the blades are not all
> uniform from Root to tip ? I have no checked but I might . Did you
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Re: need info on 582 rebuilding |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Thanks guys, I will be calling in the morning.
I do know difference in snowmobile versus aircraft use. My point is that if the
engine can be built to stay together for very long distances, in a MUCH more
demanding application, then there is not reason that the same cant be done for
AC use. Having them de-rated only adds to what one would expect for the useful
life. As with any engine, careful attention to setup and operation is essential
to longengevity. Jetting with temp changes etc. is a huge issue on keeping
the pilot cooling fan turning. I could go on all day about it but I will
leave it as is.
Thanks for all the input, after all, we are here to look after each other and try
to make sure we all get back on the ground in one piece.
--------
Leni
Avid C W/582
1260 full lotus
.......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69513#69513
Message 50
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
The bearing Co is Boca Bearings - specializing in miniature bearings for
hobby and industry. http://www.bocabearings.com/
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 07:47 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>>Could do, Ted, but I have found a reliable web based company that has a
>>great site for bearing shopping and I have found virtually everything I
>>have
>>ever needed there including The .75" ID X 1" OD ball bearings I used on
>>the
>>control stick of my video camera mount.
>
> C'mon Lowell. Don't be shy. What's the name?
>
>
> Guy
>
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL |
Any pictures? We love pictures!!!! Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Billingsley
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL
Awesome Joel! This must be a rewarding time in your life. I appreciate
your openness in letting us know you chose to have an experienced pilot
do your first flight. As I am still building, I don't think a week goes
by that I fight with myself on this somewhat personal topic. As a
low-time pilot (85 hrs in C-172's) would I be ready to take on a plane
that "fly's before you are ready"? The options are to get some
transition training and hope everything feels the same or... have an
experienced Kitfoxer or professional test pilot take it up. The rebuttal
on this thinking is sometimes posed as "I would never have anyone
test-fly a plane that I built". This statement certainly has merrit,
however, which is the wise option?
I recently looked into life insurance from one of the aviation-savy
outfits. I found it interesting (as I was answering preliminary
questions over the phone) that he would ask if I will be the test pilot.
I said I hadn't decided and he moved on. I am assuming the premium would
be higher If I did it. I thought I would throw this topic out there to
see how others who have gone before have dealt with it.
Dan B.
Mesa 314DW
Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
I'll never forget my first solo. I don't think I've ever been so
nervous.
I also won't ever forget my first flight in my Kitfox III-A. The
C172 lost
all it's appeal in about 5 seconds. The wow factor is still
fantastic.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Not a rotax, thank you VERY much, and not a muffler.
Let me set the facts straight...I have a heat muff (similar to the ones
on p. 298 of the new Spruce catalog)...which in my case is clamped
around the EXHAUST pipe inside of which I record temperatures of 1400+
degrees Fahrenheit. Inside the muff is where I am using the
alum/stainless/copper pot scrubbers to transfer the heat from the
exhaust pipe to the air which is routed through the heat muff via scat
hose to the cabin of the plane. Due to the very short length of this
heat muff (about 6"), I need to get the air warm in a hurry. There is
no room to install a longer heat muff on the short Jabiru exhaust
pipes. I'm thinking that if the temp inside the pipes is 1400F, the
temp outside the pipe and inside the muff is nowhere near the 1200
needed to melt aluminum, even in the small size of the "wire" used in
aluminum pot scrubbers. I've got scat hose clamped onto the heat muff,
and it shows no signs of sticking to the heat muff when removing it for
service, so melting the alum is probably not an issue.
Lynn
Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
do not archive
On Sunday, October 22, 2006, at 01:48 PM, Dave wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> You will not burn aluminum on a rotax Muffler. Alum melts around
> 1200 and muffler I doubt is hotter than 300 F or so.
> 1200f temps will found in the y pipe manifold only and the temp
> decreases as you travel done the cone to the Muffler.
>
> Now lets get some videos done guys and then we can have a contest
> like who has the best smoke system on their Kitfox :)
>
>
> Dave
>
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: need info on 582 rebuilding |
In a message dated 10/22/2006 10:58:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes:
Me too.
Class of '69
Your Kidding??
Bugbee house then Davis you? Were you there with Mr. Lester as Dean?
Dave Patrick
Message 54
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Where do you live now?
we need to connect off line....
Frankly, I think I remember ... think not sure
Dave Patrick
KF2 582 BH
Message 55
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| Subject: | Prop Blade Length |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard D'Archangel" <rdarchangel@earthlink.net>
Does anyone have ideas about what length propeller is optimal on a
Series 4 Kitfox?. At one time Skystar (remember them?) recommended a 72
" blade, and Warp Drive suggest a 70". I am using a 70" 2-blade Warp
Drive prop on my 912 UL powered C4 .
Thanks,
Dick
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
Gary
Where are you located?
I am in Helena
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Glasgow
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:17 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ?
Thanks All
Here in Montana ( Lower 48's) tho at times it is warmer in Alaska.
It is time to get things winterized.
Don't want to start a debate on oils and antifreezes ---I've read
Rotaxes recommendations, but they don't seem to like to mention brand
names- which I suppose I can understand.
It is difficult however at times to get the info off of the product
packaging and I was sure that this group would have some info to share.
Again thanks !!!
I still haven't flown my plane as I have been preparing a workshop /
hanger -trying to beat the snowflakes, (today I finish the insulation)
- and I need a biannual, and condition inspection also. I have
recently moved back here and after a 30 year absence I am having quite a
time finding new services and businesses to use.
(But it's fun to be retired !!! except now, I wonder how I ever
got anything done before retirement?) .
Gary
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
10/20/2006
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
I made the decision to use a more experieced pilot early on in my project. It's
not that I have little experience; 500+ hours over 20+ years with an instrument
rating but most of that time has been in 4 place Cessnas (172, 177 & 182) and
I only recently earned a tailwheel endorsement. Pat has flown hundreds of types
and has hundreds of hours in tailwheel planes. He has other 'first flight'
experience and having flown lots of aircraft being returned to flight from extensive
service has plenty of truly experimental flight time. If something was
seriously wrong with control handling he is much better prepared to handle
the situation than I am. Now that he has given the handling his favorable comments
I feel much better about taking her up myself. I'm editing some very rough
video of the first flight to a short clip that will be posted soon.
--------
Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69549#69549
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Antifreeze- Oil & gear boxes ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Not me I play with both . Makes for a interesting time lol .
Yep the dreaded oil thingy has been restarted. .
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
pennzoil 2 stroke aircooled oil
DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Well let's face it ... It's that time of the year again :-)
>
> I think most of us more true to our oil than to our ladies...
>
> Noel
>> Pennzoil 2-cycle for air cooled engines. (Unfortunately
>> you've probably
>> started the twice-dreaded 2-cycle oil debate again.)
>> >
>>
>> Guy
>
>
>
Message 59
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Michel,
No. I wouldn't worry. The grease fitting feeds into the space beteen the
bearings - a cylinder shape 1-3/8" by 2 or so inches. It would take a lot
of grease before any would be forced into the bearings themselves. I
checked mine because it seemed the original noise from the hard rubber in
the Maule had returned. It was bearing noise that triggered the
replacement. I guess with the single fork, though, if both bearings failed
catastrophically the wheel could fall off, but in that case you would have a
tail skid. I think a reasonable pre flight would detect any problems.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>> Several years ago I opted to change out to the Homebuilders Special dual
>> fork tailwheel. I got the immediate quieting that others have mentioned.
>> I also ordered the spare sealed bearing as the word was that the original
>> bearings were unsealed and un-lubeable.
>
> Hello Lowell,
> One and half year ago, I also changed my Maule tailwheel for a
> Homebuilders Special, but not the dual fork, the single fork one. Like
> you, I also read that the wheel bearing (not the swivel axle bearing)
> couldn't be greased. When installing it, I noticed that there was a grease
> nipple on both the swivel and the wheel axle. I tried to grease both but
> the wheel one wouldn't accept grease.
> ... then I went flying. I have now maybe 100 hours on that tailwheel.
> Should I worry?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Can't see that it matters as it's only a datum to work to. And being at the
end there's no chance of another error between blades with measurement
position . John A.
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
I'm surprised that Warp sets it's blades by the tip angle. I thought the
greatest action on a propeller occurs at a distance about 2/3the length of
the prop measured from the centre out. Each blade should be measured
independently to locate the place to attach the prop protractor. The tips
of the blades should be a lot finer pitch as the tip speed is considerably
higher.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:28 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> I set with Warp gauge originally but never set it to any
> accurate degree -
> just all three blades the same
> And I just kept changing accordingly about 3 tries and it was good.
>
> I have used a laser as well and it shine on the wall of
> hangar 25 feet away
> and all three blades hit the same spot.
> I know know the Warp is around 10 or 11 degrees and a GSC 68"
> 15 to 16.5
> deg is good as well but remember WARP measure angle at tip
> and GSC part way
> in ( maybe about 75% or way out from root , Where ever the
> GSC protractor
> fits tight.
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:54 PM
> Subject: RE: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson"
> > <janderson412@hotmail.com>
> >
> > If you don't set the prop toa degree setting, what dod you
> use as a
> > starting datum?
> > I use an electronic level and sice doing so has made a diff
> to smoothness
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
> > Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 06:55:36 -0400
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> >
> > Guy, please post some pics of the Exhaust There is a
> length in the Rotax
> > manual for length from exhaust port to the muffler
> including the cone(
> > that is the part that Skystar modified with a few bends as well as
> > chopping off about 1 " or so of the y pipe manifold but if
> does seem to
> > work ok.)
> >
> > Timing etc -- call Rotax Bob Robertson. I have called him
> for advice many
> > times and it always free but keep in mind I buy all rotax
> stuff from him
> > as well.
> > I think I read that your engine sat idle over 10 years
> during build time ?
> > Possible issues there like crank seals but ask Bob.
> >
> > Your prop sounds way over propped at your 13 degree
> setting. What was it
> > at before you changed it ? . I don't measure my WARP with
> degrees but
> > set all the blades all the same. I did measure last week
> though and I
> > think it was around 10 degrees or so at the tip . Yours
> being a 2 inch
> > large dimater I would stay closer to 10 degrees. ( mine is
> 68" ) I set
> > by RPM and how it works but I think WARP should be 10 to 11
> degrees area.
> > I used the Warp protractor thingy and re pitched to all the
> same. I think
> > I made it 1/2 degree finer approx. and my static went from
> 5850 5900 to
> > 6150 - 6200 and my in flight WOT went from 6600 to 6900
> or so. I also
> > dropped the clip on carb needles one notch to the bottom
> notch so it all
> > the way rich now. and egts have come down from 1200+ to
> 1100 or a bit
> > less in cruise. Temps here are average 30F to 45F degrees
> this week. and
> > our elevation is about 950 asl.
> >
> > I would set your prop to give 6200 to 6400 rpm static
> to start and
> > coarsen it about 1/4 degree at a time from there as needed.
> Assuming you
> > have stock jetting ( I think the needle is a 11G) the clip
> should be on
> > second notch from bottom of needle but if EGTS get over
> 1200 in cruise I
> > would drop one more notch. I think you said that you have
> some EIS or
> > engine gauges etc ? How is the impulse achieved ? A tiny
> tach will
> > confirm or an optical tach that your gauge reading is
> infact accurate.
> > Tiny Tach --order one from Bob when you call him and he
> will send out
> > overnight. EGT confirm it by the look of the spark plugs.
> >
> > Do you have another 582 owner near you with allot of
> experience? I would
> > get him over to help you out as well is possible.
> Personally I Think
> > you are getting in way to deep on the technical stuff and
> you have most
> > likey some simple issues here to resolve.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 11:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
> >
> >
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> >>
> >>At 11:44 AM 10/14/2006, you wrote:
> >>>You need me to do a movie of different props on 582 Kitfox
> ? I have 3
> >>>different ones here and if anyone reads this like
> Tennessee props or
> >>>Culver
> >>>props, I would ask if you would like some good coverage
> on a Kitfox 582
> >>>to
> >>>send me your best prop. I have 2 similar planes to try
> them on so we
> >>>can
> >>>get different results and post them for all to see.
> >>>
> >>>If you want bragging rights for your prop -- contact me
> >>
> >>Thanks for the offer. I'm still fooling around. My last
> attempt was to
> >>increase the pitch to 13.5d at the tip. It was really
> interesting. I had
> >>6000 static; looked great. Then I tried to take off. I
> rolled maybe 50
> >>feet and the engine started to wind down. By the time I got
> to 30mph the
> >>engine was down to 4400rpm and it was clear I was going
> nowhere! I tried
> >>it twice with the exact same results. So it appears I was
> very near the
> >>torque curve with my previous 12 degrees.
> >>
> >>I'm going through the engine now trying to discern why I
> would be low on
> >>horsepower. Jan at JC Propellor is trying to help me. He
> has a contact
> >>with a similar configuration who tops out at 102mph. Using Martin
> >>Hollman's speed program I'd have to have either 3 square
> feet more drag
> >>area, (40% more,) or be running 45hp max in my 582, or some
> combination
> >>thereof. It's unlikely I have more than 1 square foot more
> drag area so
> >>that would mean I was running 54hp max. I've got good
> compression and good
> >>EGT's, but I haven't checked the ignition timing, rotary
> valve timing, or
> >>exhaust pipe.
> >>
> >>Question for the 582 folk: Is there a way to check the
> ignition timing
> >>electronically or with a strobe? I don't want to pull the
> engine quite
> >>yet.
> >>
> >>I'm going to post pictures of my exhaust for comparison /
> evaluation by
> >>the 582 experts. It's definitely NOT Rotax stock.
> >>
> >>
> >>Guy Buchanan
> >>K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals
> > http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid 0731
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel aka Nosewheels |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Lowell ,
For arguments sake I have the same 6 inch solid tailwheels on the nose gear
of my Amphibs. I think Gary Walsh has the same ones. I operated off of
grass and they take a pounding as there little cushioning from the solid
wheels.
As far as bearings go - well lets see what they get -- Grass, dirt, sand,
water,sand dirt water,river slime,algae,sand,dirt,mud, dirt,water, sand
ETC !!!
And they still ticking ,,,,,,,, I never greased them since in installed 2
years ago .Plus they sit in snow as well .
For the record I am going to go full pneumatic wheels when I find one that
fits the odd sizing for those floats.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Michel,
>
> No. I wouldn't worry. The grease fitting feeds into the space beteen the
> bearings - a cylinder shape 1-3/8" by 2 or so inches. It would take a lot
> of grease before any would be forced into the bearings themselves. I
> checked mine because it seemed the original noise from the hard rubber in
> the Maule had returned. It was bearing noise that triggered the
> replacement. I guess with the single fork, though, if both bearings
> failed catastrophically the wheel could fall off, but in that case you
> would have a tail skid. I think a reasonable pre flight would detect any
> problems.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>>> Several years ago I opted to change out to the Homebuilders Special dual
>>> fork tailwheel. I got the immediate quieting that others have
>>> mentioned. I also ordered the spare sealed bearing as the word was that
>>> the original bearings were unsealed and un-lubeable.
>>
>> Hello Lowell,
>> One and half year ago, I also changed my Maule tailwheel for a
>> Homebuilders Special, but not the dual fork, the single fork one. Like
>> you, I also read that the wheel bearing (not the swivel axle bearing)
>> couldn't be greased. When installing it, I noticed that there was a
>> grease nipple on both the swivel and the wheel axle. I tried to grease
>> both but the wheel one wouldn't accept grease.
>> ... then I went flying. I have now maybe 100 hours on that tailwheel.
>> Should I worry?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Michel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 62
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| Subject: | TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:59 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>I thought I would throw this topic out there to see how others who have
>gone before have dealt with it.
I had decided to use a test pilot as I did not trust my take-offs and
landings if there was something wrong with the gear. However everyone I
talked to suggested I could do it. (I had 250hrs total, 20hrs tail-wheel in
a Decathlon.) I flew one hour in Alan Nephew's trike IV and something less
than two in Lowell's conventional IV, including a bunch of landings, to get
insurance. Then with mine I did the incremental taxi testing, finally
running up and down the runway at 55mph on the mains. (That's right, well
over stall,) After that I felt comfortable doing the flight test. I won't
say it was the right thing to do, but it certainly gave me a thrill!
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 63
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:45 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>Don, The WARP protractor fits nicely on the tip and I have had good success
>doing it there. are you saying that the blades are not all uniform from
>Root to tip ?
Mine was off about 1/2-3/4 degree. I first set the tip, then shifted to 3/4
and equalized, trying to hit the mean of all three blades. That way I could
still use the tip angle as reference.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: Another video |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:31 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>A person can always look through the project and do something else if the
>weather keeps a person out of one task. I know I didn't exactly start on page
>one and go consecutively through the assembly manual - a guy can always find
>something to do even if one cannot use spray materials due to the temp or
>humidity.
I'm with Dave. I think you should build 100% before covering, then
disassemble, then cover and paint. Why? Because it's so much easier to
modify and install without covering. You can weld tabs all over the place,
run conduit, make your electrical system beautiful, make your cowl perfect,
make your firewall seal, etc., etc.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 65
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:46 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>The bearing Co is Boca Bearings - specializing in miniature bearings for
>hobby and industry. http://www.bocabearings.com/
Thanks Lowell.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 66
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Blade Length |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I don't know any recommendations, but I received a 70" three blade as part
of my fwf kit.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard D'Archangel" <rdarchangel@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Prop Blade Length
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard D'Archangel"
> <rdarchangel@earthlink.net>
>
> Does anyone have ideas about what length propeller is optimal on a Series
> 4 Kitfox?. At one time Skystar (remember them?) recommended a 72 " blade,
> and Warp Drive suggest a 70". I am using a 70" 2-blade Warp Drive prop on
> my 912 UL powered C4 .
> Thanks,
> Dick
>
>
>
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
Me too Don.
Not only did I find the pitch drifted but also the track changed. I could not
track the tips by setting the protactor on the tips but putting the protractor
in a few inches the track came in perfect. Thought it was just my mowing the
grass with my blade.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Smythe <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:28:52 AM
Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Me too. I found that I have a difference between the blade pitch of up to 1
degree if I use the tips as a reference. Warp strongly disagreed with me
but, So be it. I checked the pitch angle of all three blades every two
inches from the hub out to the tip (after setting the pitch at the 3/4
position). As I neared the last three inches at the tip, the angles started
to drift up to 1 degree in error. All reading from the hub out to that
point were very close. Now, I use the 3/4 position for all my sittings.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> I'm surprised that Warp sets it's blades by the tip angle. I thought the
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs |
I have an EGT located (mis-located) in my muffler outlet on a 912. I regularly
see 1500 degrees at this point so the pipes could easily still be quite hot at
this point.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:48:52 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
You will not burn aluminum on a rotax Muffler. Alum melts around 1200
and muffler I doubt is hotter than 300 F or so.
1200f temps will found in the y pipe manifold only and the temp decreases
as you travel done the cone to the Muffler.
Now lets get some videos done guys and then we can have a contest like who
has the best smoke system on their Kitfox :)
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
>
> I'm not clear on whether this is a good idea, aluminum will burn under
> some circumstances and in the presence of heat and moisture it will
> oxidize even if it doesn't burn when you are dealing with very thin stuff.
> You might be better off with the stainless. I doubt that heat transfer is
> a big part of the function anyway. I figure what you are after is
> turbulence and latency in the air's transit through your system. You could
> do as well with a series of disks clamped to the pipe if I'm visualising
> what you want properly.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:59 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> Stop the presses...I just found a product that might do the job for my
>> pot scrubber needs...aluminum "Lint Snares"(patented name), a product
>
>
>
Message 69
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| Subject: | Re: need info on 582 rebuilding |
Eric tucker said the TBO on a 582 crank in all other countries is 600 hrs
they recommend 300 in the US. that is what he told me every time I took his
cours (3 times now) malcolm
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| Subject: | Re: How To Fly a Kitfox |
any body have a copie they want to send me? malcolm
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
If you use an Inclinometer you can zero it on the hub, then measure the tip
with the blade horizontal. Can get it to within .1 of .
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Don, The WARP protractor fits nicely on the tip and I have had good success
doing it there. are you saying that the blades are not all uniform from
Root to tip ? I have no checked but I might . Did you see my latest
Trailer park video? 17 megs http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/ if you
think my prop is not working properly , well I hope to get a bit more
performance yet in that case ...... :) anyone else ever wonder what a
Kitfox has for breakfast ? A Zenith 701 :)
I just new GSC wood blade in last week and anxious to try them out soon on
this 582 Kitfox. My old ones near 500 hours and I figured it time for some
new ones. They sure look good out of the box !!
Now back to Warp prop. I really don't think it matters how you set you
prop as long as all blade at the same pitch , track properly and are torqued
properly and regularly. As long as you get the 6000 to 6200 static rpm and a
decent cruise . Just watch those EGTs.
Dave
http://www.warpdriveprops.com/protractor.html
2. Setting degrees of pitch. ATTENTION! Always set the degrees of pitch at
the tip of the blade! Determine the amount of pitch you want in the
propeller and rotate the protractor wheel the same number of marks from your
starting point. Example: If your aircraft is sitting level, your starting
point would be zero. If you want 10 degrees of pitch, move your protractor
wheel ten marks in the outer scale.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>
>Me too. I found that I have a difference between the blade pitch of up to
>1 degree if I use the tips as a reference. Warp strongly disagreed with me
>but, So be it. I checked the pitch angle of all three blades every two
>inches from the hub out to the tip (after setting the pitch at the 3/4
>position). As I neared the last three inches at the tip, the angles
>started to drift up to 1 degree in error. All reading from the hub out to
>that point were very close. Now, I use the 3/4 position for all my
>sittings.
>
>Don Smythe
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>I'm surprised that Warp sets it's blades by the tip angle. I thought the
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming
Message 72
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| Subject: | Rebuilding 582's |
I am kinda hard headed at times as I have been racing sleds and we run
those WAY
harder and longer than anyone in their right mind would run an engine
you are
flying behind. With that being said, I feel that if I can rebuild /
straighten
cranks in race engines (that are straighter than the NEW factory crank)
that
go for 100 miles at a time on the bar (WOT 8,200 RPM+) time after time
and
stay together year after year, I am not shy about rebuilding this
engine. I am
also not a stupid pilot who takes alot of unnessisary chances with his
life
(well ok there have been a few times lol). I dont buy into the
arguments that
you have to buy NEW cranks everytime. If you take it down, inspect,
mike, etc.
and find it within tolerances and put it back together to specs then I
dont
have one second thought about flying behind it.
Just my thoughts
Hi Leni,
sorry to see you cop so much flak over wanting to rebuild
your 582. There is a place for this discussion to let us all that are
prepared to listen acsertain a few pertinent facts. Actually I'm in a
similar boat to you. I raced a 250cc Kart for years. It was single
cylinder and ran all race long on 14,000 RPM. Yes despite comments that
an aircraft motor is running much longer etc there is a lot of lessons
learn't doing this sort of thing and I'm willing to bet a 582 out of the
box wouln't handle that for long. We also rebuilt cranks to way better
than factory specs. We also polished and shot peened rods and changed
them every six months. We learnt not to use metal caged mains etc etc.
You can't tell me a lot of this isn't relevant to making a better 582. I
have a Blue Head that might have reached 150 hrs by now so I don't
expect to have to worry about it anytime soon. However when I do I'm
very tempted to want to do it myself. Sure Rotax have learn't a lot over
the years and the 582 is now a remarkable motor. Anyone would be foolish
to ignore what Rotax have learn't. I think the trick is to be aware of
all that and to be able to get parts to rebuild the crank etc. My
understanding is that you can only buy the crank as a whole from Rotax
no patrs as in rods, crank pins etc. I believe there is some after
market pistons though that should be better. Also a big problem is Rotax
have prices that are way over the fence.
If we could all discuss this subject here calmly we could gather a lot
of info to our mutual benifit and yes we can no doubt make a better
engine. I am not saying that making a lot of horsepower and running a
long time aren't two entirely different things although a motor that
will hang in for racing at 14,000 obviously is bullet proof at 6,800 so
some aspects do apply. I also would not like to see just anyone rebuild
their own plane motor just because it's cheaper. Obviously there is a
lot of knowledge, experience and expertise needed not to mention tools
and jigs. I heard that Rotax actually raised the price of parts so high
so people would would opt for a new motor rather than rebuild.
Apparently there were a lot of rebuild failures which is not good for
safety plus of course Rotax was getting a bad reputation. Also if one
upgraded from Grey head to Blue in the course of sorting motor problems
then there was less motor failures. I understand too that not being able
to buy individual crank parts stops poor crank rebuilds. I think one
issue was broken crank webs where their was a machine mark. If one has
to buy a new crank that problem gets solved instead of a crank with that
mark going back into service only to fail at some point.
I say let's discuss what's involved and we can get a better product.
If we save some money that's fine but personally I'd pay more rather
than less to get that better product. At a very casual glance at all
this I feel better pistons are available. Bearings should not be a
problem nor seals. However what about crank parts especially the rods.
Actually just new rods would probably be fine and I'd polish and peen
them but as I understand it we can't get these. However their might well
be an alternative !
Leni please don't be put off. Your knowledge and experience do count.
As for those that don't have that then yes by all means don't fiddle.
Just go for a new engine or at least a rebuilt one by some one like Bob
Robertson but don't tell the rest of us what to do with our knowledge
and experience.
Rex from Australia.
Message 73
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| Subject: | Re: Rebuilding 582's |
Well said REX . I know there are bearings available to rebuild but i
cannot find out where yet . trying to get these secrets is like trying
to get a straight answer from my wife . it aint gonna happen lol . Im my
experience running the 582 it is the rod needle bearings on the crank
and piston pin that tend to disintegrate . I Hope we can find a source
for them .
Fly safe fly low fly slow Flyfun fly KITFOX
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
Do not archive
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re: TEST FLYING...WAS-First Flight N422NL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel" <foxfloatflyer@hotmail.com>
Attached is a picture from the brief video.
--------
Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69597#69597
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n422nl_firstflight_192.jpg
Message 75
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| Subject: | Show me the FAR... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "84KF" <stevebenesh@comcast.net>
Can anyone tell me where to find the FAR that says as a PVT Pilot I CANNOT fly
my Kitfox V under the new Sport Pilot rules. (In other words, after my current
medical expires) Please quote only the FAR(s), not articles by AOPA, EAA, or
writersauthors. The FARs are the only things that counts.
I am not interested in changing it from Experimental to LSA, and since it is Experimental
don't use the "as originally certified" in FAR 1.1 Experimental are
not certified by the FAA. That part of the definition is for FAA Certified
aircraft such as Cubs, Champs, etc etc... and means that you cannot alter an existing
Certified aircraft to now fit the performance rules.
Remember now... I will fly under Sport Pilot rules...1320 Max Takeoff weight,
Do not confuse this with the term Gross Weight, which is 1400, the amount the
aircraft COULD safely lift. The FAA defines Light sport MTOW as
The maximum weight of a light-sport aircraft is the sum of:(1) Aircraft empty weight;
(2) Weight of the passenger for each seat installed; (3) Baggage allowance
for each passenger; and (4) Full fuel, including a minimum of the half-hour
fuel reserve required for day visual flight rules in 91.151(a)(1).
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf (page 23)
Ok let's see.... empty wt = 751, 2 seats filled = 360, full tanks = 168, baggage
allowance 2 x 15 = 30 Total 1309 lbs Take off weight.
Remember , this is a "stock" Series V w/ 912UL so the rest such as prop, max speed,
seats. gear... all meet the requirements of 1.1 As an A&P with I.A I do
not need the "extras" like the new maintenace privliges that one can aquire to
maintain a (true) LSA, so , once again, this aircraft will remain Expermental
It seem that if you ask 5 pilots what the rule is you get 6 different answers...every
one mixes apples with oranges and confuses LSA with Sport Pilot rulesprivileges
One last thing for now... I noticed some posts that asked about STC's to make current
Experimentals...different... to meet the rules. STC's (Supplemental Type
Certificate) only apply to Certificated aircraft...which we are not. It is a
FAA "permission" to alter a "real" aircraft from it's original (and Certified)
type design. DNA to Kitfox or other Experimentals.
I will stop now... thanks for reading.
Steve
--------
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=69601#69601
Message 76
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Wow, I love this. It is great reading. Right on Lynn. Skystar has
supplied aluminum heat muffs since day one of the 912 series. The Lancair
IV I work on has aluminum heat muffs. Hey, guys they work. The surface of
the exhaust pipe exceeds 300 or they wouldn't change color as they do, but
the aluminum survives. Guys have been using the brass and SS scrubbers with
success.
In my mind no amount of argument will change any of these facts.
Respectfully,
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum "pot scrubbers"...was heat muffs
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Not a rotax, thank you VERY much, and not a muffler.
>
> Let me set the facts straight...I have a heat muff (similar to the ones on
> p. 298 of the new Spruce catalog)...which in my case is clamped around the
> EXHAUST pipe inside of which I record temperatures of 1400+ degrees
> Fahrenheit. Inside the muff is where I am using the alum/stainless/copper
> pot scrubbers to transfer the heat from the exhaust pipe to the air which
> is routed through the heat muff via scat hose to the cabin of the plane.
> Due to the very short length of this heat muff (about 6"), I need to get
> the air warm in a hurry. There is no room to install a longer heat muff on
> the short Jabiru exhaust pipes. I'm thinking that if the temp inside the
> pipes is 1400F, the temp outside the pipe and inside the muff is nowhere
> near the 1200 needed to melt aluminum, even in the small size of the
> "wire" used in aluminum pot scrubbers. I've got scat hose clamped onto the
> heat muff, and it shows no signs of sticking to the heat muff when
> removing it for service, so melting the alum is probably not an issue.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
> do not archive
>
>
> On Sunday, October 22, 2006, at 01:48 PM, Dave wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>
>> You will not burn aluminum on a rotax Muffler. Alum melts around 1200
>> and muffler I doubt is hotter than 300 F or so.
>> 1200f temps will found in the y pipe manifold only and the temp
>> decreases as you travel done the cone to the Muffler.
>>
>> Now lets get some videos done guys and then we can have a contest like
>> who has the best smoke system on their Kitfox :)
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
>
>
Message 77
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel aka Nosewheels |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Far be it to me to get into an argument about tail wheel bearings. I just
posted my experience primarily to express frustration in the 5/8" rather
than the 1/2" axle measurement in the ACS supplied bearings and give a
heads-up to anyone planning a bearing replacement.
However, based on my experience with mine which were probably 70% hard
surface and 30% otherwise and about 3 years old, with your usage you will
have 0, read zero, lubricant in your bearings and they are failing as we
speak.
On mine the entire interior of the wheel hub was coated with black gunk
presumably the original lubricant which somehow exited the bearings and
deposited itself there, and there was actually dirt - not congealed oil or
grease - on the inner surfaces of the bearings in clumps. These bearings
are not sealed despite the Stainless steel shield. Everything you expose
them to is being used as lubricant whether it be dirt, sand or water. They
will fail, if not catastrophically, they will become noisy, indicating
bearing failure. Jack up the front of your float and spin them. If after
two years in the environment you describe they spin silently, we will all
have witnessed a miracle. Failed bearings on a tailwheel could be an
annoyance. Failed bearings on a nose wheel just might provide an amazing
adventure, but to each his own, I guess.
Frankly, I love this list especially when someone reports factual
information and there are predictable responses from people who are
opinionating, bragging, or just guessing, as to why the real life experience
is a bunch of you know what.
Regards,
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel aka Nosewheels
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>
> Lowell ,
> For arguments sake I have the same 6 inch solid tailwheels on the nose
> gear of my Amphibs. I think Gary Walsh has the same ones. I operated off
> of grass and they take a pounding as there little cushioning from the
> solid wheels.
>
> As far as bearings go - well lets see what they get -- Grass, dirt, sand,
> water,sand dirt water,river slime,algae,sand,dirt,mud, dirt,water, sand
> ETC !!!
> And they still ticking ,,,,,,,, I never greased them since in installed 2
> years ago .Plus they sit in snow as well .
>
> For the record I am going to go full pneumatic wheels when I find one that
> fits the odd sizing for those floats.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 8:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Michel,
>>
>> No. I wouldn't worry. The grease fitting feeds into the space beteen
>> the bearings - a cylinder shape 1-3/8" by 2 or so inches. It would take
>> a lot of grease before any would be forced into the bearings themselves.
>> I checked mine because it seemed the original noise from the hard rubber
>> in the Maule had returned. It was bearing noise that triggered the
>> replacement. I guess with the single fork, though, if both bearings
>> failed catastrophically the wheel could fall off, but in that case you
>> would have a tail skid. I think a reasonable pre flight would detect any
>> problems.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>>>> Several years ago I opted to change out to the Homebuilders Special
>>>> dual fork tailwheel. I got the immediate quieting that others have
>>>> mentioned. I also ordered the spare sealed bearing as the word was that
>>>> the original bearings were unsealed and un-lubeable.
>>>
>>> Hello Lowell,
>>> One and half year ago, I also changed my Maule tailwheel for a
>>> Homebuilders Special, but not the dual fork, the single fork one. Like
>>> you, I also read that the wheel bearing (not the swivel axle bearing)
>>> couldn't be greased. When installing it, I noticed that there was a
>>> grease nipple on both the swivel and the wheel axle. I tried to grease
>>> both but the wheel one wouldn't accept grease.
>>> ... then I went flying. I have now maybe 100 hours on that tailwheel.
>>> Should I worry?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Michel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 78
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Hub |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Why do Warpdrive insist on measuring at the tip?? I have always done so as
the instruction says and have a nice smooth prop, 72" 3 blade. John A.
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Guy --- Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Hub
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:45 AM 10/22/2006, you wrote:
>Don, The WARP protractor fits nicely on the tip and I have had good
>success
>doing it there. are you saying that the blades are not all uniform from
>Root to tip ?
Mine was off about 1/2-3/4 degree. I first set the tip, then shifted to 3/4
and equalized, trying to hit the mean of all three blades. That way I could
still use the tip angle as reference.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
_________________________________________________________________
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html
Message 79
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| Subject: | Re: Prop Blade Length |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" <janderson412@hotmail.com>
Blade length depends on RPM, longer the better up t 72" for a Fox (ground
clearance) so long as the tip speed is not too high
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Prop Blade Length
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
I don't know any recommendations, but I received a 70" three blade as part
of my fwf kit.
Lowell
----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard D'Archangel"
<rdarchangel@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Prop Blade Length
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard D'Archangel"
><rdarchangel@earthlink.net>
>
>Does anyone have ideas about what length propeller is optimal on a Series 4
>Kitfox?. At one time Skystar (remember them?) recommended a 72 " blade, and
>Warp Drive suggest a 70". I am using a 70" 2-blade Warp Drive prop on my
>912 UL powered C4 .
>Thanks,
>Dick
>
>
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