---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/08/06: 53 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:12 AM - If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) (Matt Dralle) 1. 09:28 PM - Clarification On New Contribution Module Operation... (Matt Dralle) 2. 01:53 AM - Re: Treaded Tyres (Kevin Ridsdale) 3. 01:53 AM - Re: Treaded Tyres (Kevin Ridsdale) 4. 01:55 AM - Re: Re: Treaded Tyres (Kevin Ridsdale) 5. 01:59 AM - Re: Tires (Kevin Ridsdale) 6. 01:59 AM - Re: Re: Tires (Kevin Ridsdale) 7. 02:00 AM - Re: Re: Tires (Kevin Ridsdale) 8. 04:32 AM - Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . (n61kf) 9. 04:51 AM - Re: Treaded Tyres (john perry) 10. 04:51 AM - Re: Treaded Tyres (Fox5flyer) 11. 05:11 AM - Re: Treaded Tyres (john perry) 12. 05:19 AM - Just where is this list going? (Brian Rodgers) 13. 05:51 AM - Re: Just where is this list going? (Peter Graichen) 14. 06:00 AM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL (dcsfoto) 15. 06:00 AM - Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . (84KF) 16. 06:16 AM - Re: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) (Peter Graichen) 17. 06:29 AM - Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . (84KF) 18. 06:39 AM - [OFF-TOPIC]: Just where is this list going? (Michel Verheughe) 19. 06:43 AM - Re: EA-81 Subaru Drivers (Peter Graichen) 20. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . (Timothy Colman) 21. 07:24 AM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL (kurt schrader) 22. 07:26 AM - Re: Just where is this list going? (Jim Gilliatt) 23. 07:38 AM - Re: EA-81 Subaru Drivers (Margaret Hastedt) 24. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . (Noel Loveys) 25. 08:08 AM - Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . (84KF) 26. 08:25 AM - IvoProp Numbers (crazyivan) 27. 08:30 AM - Kitfox List Rules (Fox5flyer) 28. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . (Fox5flyer) 29. 08:50 AM - Re: Kitfox List Rules (Patrick Kelly) 30. 09:51 AM - Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . (84KF) 31. 10:03 AM - Re: IvoProp Numbers (JC Propellerdesign) 32. 10:22 AM - Re: IvoProp Numbers (Noel Loveys) 33. 10:29 AM - Re: Kitfox List Rules (Noel Loveys) 34. 10:29 AM - Re: EA-81 Subaru Drivers (GENTRYLL@aol.com) 35. 10:49 AM - Re: IvoProp Numbers (Ben-PA) 36. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: IvoProp Numbers (Ben Baltrusaitis) 37. 12:24 PM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL (Lowell Fitt) 38. 12:55 PM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL (Torgeir Mortensen) 39. 01:05 PM - Re: Kitfox List Rules (Fox5flyer) 40. 01:26 PM - Re: IvoProp Numbers (crazyivan) 41. 01:38 PM - Subject: Re: Treaded Tyres (Joe & Jan Connell) 42. 01:39 PM - Re: IvoProp Numbers (Torgeir Mortensen) 43. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: IvoProp Numbers (JC Propellerdesign) 44. 03:52 PM - Re: Kitfox List Rules (Patrick Kelly) 45. 04:30 PM - Patrick Kelly (john perry) 46. 05:01 PM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL (kurt schrader) 47. 06:29 PM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL (Jay Fabian) 48. 08:17 PM - Re: Kitfox List Rules (jakelewis) 49. 09:03 PM - Re: Kitfox List administrators (Ceashman@AOL.COM) 50. 11:11 PM - Re: Kitfox List administrators (John Anderson) 51. 11:22 PM - Re: Kitfox List administrators (Matt Dralle) 52. 11:33 PM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL (JC Propellerdesign) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:21 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the first PBS-like funds drive message under the new distribution system. The new system selectively sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-) You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox! Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new feature. I've wanted to implement something like this for a number of years now, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally this year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site. I'm pretty sure you don't either. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:42 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Clarification On New Contribution Module Operation... Dear Listers, A number of Listers emailed and indicated that, even though they had made a Contribution this year, they still received the Contribution message yesterday. I looked into it and I found a slight anomaly (ok, bug) in the new code specifically as it related to Listers that had made their Contribution through PayPal AND have a DIFFERENT email address for their PayPal account and for their Matronics List subscription. If your PayPal account email address is DIFFERENT than the email address you are subscribed to the Matronics List(s) as, then my new code module couldn't tell that you had made a Contribution, since it was using the PayPal email address instead of the List email. I've fixed this issue for any new PayPal Contributions, but I don't have any easy way of resolving this for any of the previous Contribtuions. Again, this is ONLY an issue if your PayPal and Matronics List email addresses ARE NOT the same. Otherwise, everything works great. If you made a PayPal Contribution before 11/09/06 AND your email addresses don't match, please drop me an email at " info@matronics.com " (do not reply to this message!) and give me your Name, and both Email Addresses and I will manually update the records so that things will work as advertised. Sorry for the hassle! New code; new bugs... :-) To make a Contribution, please see: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administration ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:59 AM PST US From: Kevin Ridsdale Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres Rex, Why are you guys spending that much for tires that are not made for Foxes, these guys sell world wide Kit Fox tires 2 for $27.50 plus shipping $65.00 to the EU and Alaska and only $25.00 to the continentail USA here are the specs Tire Size: 21 X 12 X 8 2 Ply Tubeless Rim Width: 7" min to 9.5" max Max load: 730 Pounds/ tire Max PSI: 10 PSI Overall Tire Dia.: 20.98 Max Section Width: 11.97 contact Kevin at MiPPi Uultalights 734-377-2670 or webmaster@mipoweparachute.com --- Rex Shaw wrote: > Kitfoxes have flown with lawn tractor tires since > day one. I have never > heard of anyone having an accident, incident or even > a flat due to tire > "failure". Lancair yes, Kitfox no! > > Respectfully, > > Lowell > > Me either Lowell. I use lawn tractor tyres and love > them. I do have wheel pants though and maybe without > they might chuck up a bit of rubbish. Originally we > ran about 12 lbs pressure but the tyres turned on > the rims after a while and pulled the valve stems. I > now run 18 PSI and everything is fine. Maybe they > are a little harder but then they don't squirm > around either. The original buffed down ATV tyres > were shocking. I'd never go that way again. > > Rex. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:59 AM PST US From: Kevin Ridsdale Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres John, Why are you guys spending that much for tires that are not made for Foxes, these guys sell world wide Kit Fox tires 2 for $27.50 plus shipping $65.00 to the EU and Alaska and only $25.00 to the continentail USA here are the specs Tire Size: 21 X 12 X 8 2 Ply Tubeless Rim Width: 7" min to 9.5" max Max load: 730 Pounds/ tire Max PSI: 10 PSI Overall Tire Dia.: 20.98 Max Section Width: 11.97 contact Kevin at MiPPi Uultalights 734-377-2670 or webmaster@mipoweparachute.com --- john perry wrote: > What i cant figure out is why anyone would take a > 20. dollar tire grind off the lugs or tread and then > charge 125. dollars for them . And some of us were > just smart enought to buy them lol . I buy KENDA > tires now i like the straight lugs better than the > small square ones that the CHENG SHIN tires have. > Have never had another flat since running the > treaded tires on my Kitfox 2 . > > Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX > John Perry > Kitfox 2 N718PD > TD/ Straight floats > Hot pink IVO Inflight > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:43 AM PST US From: Kevin Ridsdale Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Treaded Tyres Tom, Why are you guys spending that much for tires that are not made for Foxes, these guys sell world wide Kit Fox tires 2 for $27.50 plus shipping $65.00 to the EU and Alaska and only $25.00 to the continentail USA here are the specs Tire Size: 21 X 12 X 8 2 Ply Tubeless Rim Width: 7" min to 9.5" max Max load: 730 Pounds/ tire Max PSI: 10 PSI Overall Tire Dia.: 20.98 Max Section Width: 11.97 contact Kevin at MiPPi Uultalights 734-377-2670 or webmaster@mipoweparachute.com --- Tom Jones wrote: > > > Rex, > I have an extra set of tires that are the smooth > buffed atv tires. I was planing on using them on my > classic 4 when my lawn tractor tires wear out. What > was "shocking" about yours? > Tom Jones > Ellensburg, WA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72926#72926 > > > > > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com > Admin. > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:10 AM PST US From: Kevin Ridsdale Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tires Mike, Why are you guys spending that much for tires that are not made for Foxes, these guys sell world wide Kit Fox tires 2 for $27.50 plus shipping $65.00 to the EU and Alaska and only $25.00 to the continentail USA here are the specs Tire Size: 21 X 12 X 8 2 Ply Tubeless Rim Width: 7" min to 9.5" max Max load: 730 Pounds/ tire Max PSI: 10 PSI Overall Tire Dia.: 20.98 Max Section Width: 11.97 contact Kevin at MiPPi Uultalights 734-377-2670 or webmaster@mipoweparachute.com --- Mike Chaney wrote: > I changed tires on my Cub Cadet and have two good 20 > x 9 8NHS 2 ply tires. > These tires have the turf style tread. > > My question is, I can think of no reason why I > couldn't use these tires on > my Model IV except maybe for the tread and I think > the tire may be a bit > taller? What are the thoughts of some of the list > members on this subject. > > Mike C. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:51 AM PST US From: Kevin Ridsdale Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Tires Lowell, Why are you guys spending that much for tires that are not made for Foxes, these guys sell world wide Kit Fox tires 2 for $27.50 plus shipping $65.00 to the EU and Alaska and only $25.00 to the continentail USA here are the specs Tire Size: 21 X 12 X 8 2 Ply Tubeless Rim Width: 7" min to 9.5" max Max load: 730 Pounds/ tire Max PSI: 10 PSI Overall Tire Dia.: 20.98 Max Section Width: 11.97 contact Kevin at MiPPi Uultalights 734-377-2670 or webmaster@mipoweparachute.com --- Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > Kitfoxes have flown with lawn tractor tires since > day one. I have never > heard of anyone having an accident, incident or even > a flat due to tire > "failure". Lancair yes, Kitfox no! > > Respectfully, > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 5:33 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tires > > > > > > > See if the manufacturer can provide a weight and > speed rating. The forces > > on the tread of a spinning tire cna be incredible. > > Bob > > A&P, Aero Eng > > > > -------- > > Remember that internet advice may only be worth > what you pay. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72608#72608 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com > Admin. > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:27 AM PST US From: Kevin Ridsdale Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Tires Bob, Why are you guys spending that much for tires that are not made for Foxes, these guys sell world wide Kit Fox tires 2 for $27.50 plus shipping $65.00 to the EU and Alaska and only $25.00 to the continentail USA here are the specs Tire Size: 21 X 12 X 8 2 Ply Tubeless Rim Width: 7" min to 9.5" max Max load: 730 Pounds/ tire Max PSI: 10 PSI Overall Tire Dia.: 20.98 Max Section Width: 11.97 contact Kevin at MiPPi Uultalights 734-377-2670 or webmaster@mipoweparachute.com --- Bob wrote: > > > See if the manufacturer can provide a weight and > speed rating. The forces on the tread of a spinning > tire cna be incredible. > Bob > A&P, Aero Eng > > -------- > Remember that internet advice may only be worth what > you pay. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72608#72608 > > > > > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com > Admin. > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:16 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . .. From: "n61kf" List, I have attached a scan from the most recant EAA Sport Pilot magazine,Q&A page ( see the question fron D. Williamson) The answer defenatly states the EAA position on the LSA weight question. -------- Keith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73065#73065 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/eaastance__196.tif ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:06 AM PST US From: "john perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres Kevin if you would have read all my post you would have seen i now buy Kenda tires. They are 20 bucks a piece and have straight lugs . The tires are 20 x 7 x 8 ,Your tires are 12 inches wide and alot more drag.. and cost alot more for a 2 ply gonna get a flat cuzz of the goat head and thorns and rocks i fly of . also i do not pay any shipping . By the way in my opinion one post on your part would have been much better . John Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Ridsdale" Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 3:53 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres > > > John, > Why are you guys spending that much for tires that are > not made for Foxes, these guys sell world wide Kit Fox > tires 2 for $27.50 plus shipping $65.00 to the EU and > Alaska and only $25.00 to the continentail USA > here are the specs > Tire Size: 21 X 12 X 8 2 Ply Tubeless > > Rim Width: 7" min to 9.5" max > > Max load: 730 Pounds/ tire > > Max PSI: 10 PSI > > Overall Tire Dia.: 20.98 > > Max Section Width: 11.97 > > contact Kevin at MiPPi Uultalights 734-377-2670 or > webmaster@mipoweparachute.com > > --- john perry wrote: > >> What i cant figure out is why anyone would take a >> 20. dollar tire grind off the lugs or tread and then >> charge 125. dollars for them . And some of us were >> just smart enought to buy them lol . I buy KENDA >> tires now i like the straight lugs better than the >> small square ones that the CHENG SHIN tires have. >> Have never had another flat since running the >> treaded tires on my Kitfox 2 . >> >> Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX >> John Perry >> Kitfox 2 N718PD >> TD/ Straight floats >> Hot pink IVO Inflight >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:24 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres Kevin, answering a message with an offer to sell something of yours is fine, but answering five in a row to sell the same product smells of spam. Deke Morisse List Administrator ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Ridsdale" Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:53 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres > > John, > Why are you guys spending that much for tires that are > not made for Foxes, these guys sell world wide Kit Fox > tires 2 for $27.50 plus shipping $65.00 to the EU and > Alaska and only $25.00 to the continentail USA > here are the specs > Tire Size: 21 X 12 X 8 2 Ply Tubeless > > Rim Width: 7" min to 9.5" max > > Max load: 730 Pounds/ tire > > Max PSI: 10 PSI > > Overall Tire Dia.: 20.98 > > Max Section Width: 11.97 > > contact Kevin at MiPPi Uultalights 734-377-2670 or > webmaster@mipoweparachute.com > > --- john perry wrote: > > > What i cant figure out is why anyone would take a > > 20. dollar tire grind off the lugs or tread and then > > charge 125. dollars for them . And some of us were > > just smart enought to buy them lol . I buy KENDA > > tires now i like the straight lugs better than the > > small square ones that the CHENG SHIN tires have. > > Have never had another flat since running the > > treaded tires on my Kitfox 2 . > > > > Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX > > John Perry > > Kitfox 2 N718PD > > TD/ Straight floats > > Hot pink IVO Inflight > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:41 AM PST US From: "john perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres Thank you Deke John Perry Kitfox 2 N718PD FLying Kenda 20x 7 x 8 With tread DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:50 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres > > Kevin, answering a message with an offer to sell something of yours is > fine, > but answering five in a row to sell the same product smells of spam. > Deke Morisse > List Administrator ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:38 AM PST US From: "Brian Rodgers" Subject: Kitfox-List: Just where is this list going? Now that the list has degenerated from talking about Kitfox aircraft into: 1) a child car seat discussion forum (Matronics has a "General Interests e-mail list for 90% of you) 2) a place to argue about FAA rules (there's only one interpretation that matters, the FAA's, not y'alls) 3) an advertising opportunity for tire marketing 4) the Canadian enviromental / political viewpoint expression outlet 5) a place to spread opinions and other forms of disinformation on subjects about which you know absolutely nothing it's time to leave you to it. I hit the 'delete' button way more now than I used to with this list. The above does not apply to the silent majority with sparse, but very helpful advice. Enjoy. Brian ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:35 AM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Just where is this list going? I agree with you whole heartedly. Let's get back to basics! Peter Graichen http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Rodgers Sent: Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 08:20 Subject: Kitfox-List: Just where is this list going? Now that the list has degenerated from talking about Kitfox aircraft into: 1) a child car seat discussion forum (Matronics has a "General Interests e-mail list for 90% of you) 2) a place to argue about FAA rules (there's only one interpretation that matters, the FAA's, not y'alls) 3) an advertising opportunity for tire marketing 4) the Canadian enviromental / political viewpoint expression outlet 5) a place to spread opinions and other forms of disinformation on subjects about which you know absolutely nothing it's time to leave you to it. I hit the 'delete' button way more now than I used to with this list. The above does not apply to the silent majority with sparse, but very helpful advice. Enjoy. Brian ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:02 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rough Running 912 UL From: "dcsfoto" my 912 runs good but in if I try to run in the 3000-3200 range it seems to run rough or vibrate more. I just avoid that rpm spot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73080#73080 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:33 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . .. From: "84KF" You have been provided with the rulings and definitions right from the FAA regulatory documents, but some guy name Joe, who never did any reasearch and is paraphrasing out of context is your source? Read the regulatory information, ..and think...for yourself. Steve -------- Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!) New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73082#73082 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:59 AM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) Hello Matt: Tried to make my contribution today but received message "Your Credit Card Has Been Declined". The information that I entered was correct and I assure you my credit card is okay as well. I'll try to send a check. Peter Graichen http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Wednesday, 08 November, 2006 03:12 Subject: Kitfox-List: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-) If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the first PBS-like funds drive message under the new distribution system. The new system selectively sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-) You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox! Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new feature. I've wanted to implement something like this for a number of years now, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally this year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site. I'm pretty sure you don't either. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . .. From: "84KF" Just to show the irony in "Joe's" profound ultimation"... My 1400 lb. Series 5 is still in"phase 1". and has newer BEEN operated , since it's so called certification (when it recieved it's AW cert.) at over 1320 lbs during that time. so according to his NON- FAA APPROVED opinion it STILL is eligible. Well ??? which is it? See what happens when one tries to paraphrase and then state the FAA rulings in their OWN language? Steve -------- Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!) New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73088#73088 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:10 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: [OFF-TOPIC]: Kitfox-List: Just where is this list going? > From: Brian Rodgers [brodg@texas.net] > Now that the list has degenerated from talking about Kitfox aircraft into: I agree. However - and for the sake of friendship - a small amount of "small talk" should be allowed; provided that one writes OFF-TOPIC in the title (as I did), and "do not archive" at the end of the email (as I did). I don't read eveything. I have a Jabiru engine; postings about the Rotax and Subaru don't interest me. The courteous thing then is to indicate the subject in the title, and change it when the subject changes. As simple as that. Cheers, Michel do not archive
________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:45 AM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EA-81 Subaru Drivers Gentlemen: You must be talking about turbo-charged NSI EA81s if you use oil coolers. The normally aspirated engine does not need an oilcooler. The oil will always be the same as the water temperature. I have run extensive instrumented tests to prove it. Peter Graichen http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm Oil to water cooler, fits on the filter body. From: GENTRYLL@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EA-81 Subaru Drivers I would say your scales were more accurate than mine but not by that much. The only things missing off the plane were the wood farings for the wing and landing gear struts. Instruments are basic, no radios or wheel pants. It is a 1050 and not a 1200. I really only entered the weight in the tread so someone could tell me if my speed/rpm/pitch relationship sounded right. By the way, I like the oil cooler idea for the oil temp but after looking on the internet at the oil filter adapter, I don't think I could get it on because you can't hardly get a filter on it now due to clearance with the motor mount. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:29 AM PST US From: Timothy Colman Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . My sense is that this argument has become an intellectual one for you Steve. For me it is not intellectual. The rules, and FAA's interpretation of them, will dictate exactly what I fly. I have seen fairly authoritative sources say that you are wrong, and someone posted a page from an EAA publication that definitely says you are wrong. I speak as someone who would love for you to be right. The difference between you and me is that I am not willing to spend tons of money on the chance that you are right. Can you get an FAA source to publicly agree with you? If not let's all agree to move on. Tim Colman ----- Original Message ---- From: 84KF Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2006 8:29:02 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . .. Just to show the irony in "Joe's" profound ultimation"... My 1400 lb. Series 5 is still in"phase 1". and has newer BEEN operated , since it's so called certification (when it recieved it's AW cert.) at over 1320 lbs during that time. so according to his NON- FAA APPROVED opinion it STILL is eligible. Well ??? which is it? See what happens when one tries to paraphrase and then state the FAA rulings in their OWN language? Steve -------- Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!) New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73088#73088 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:12 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL Sounds lean and not safe to fly. Make sure you get that fixed first. You may be a bit lean overall and that range is just the worst of the bunch. How are your EGTs? Kurt S. S-5 --- Jay Fabian wrote: > Hi List, > I have a 912 UL with 145 tthours. It had a rough > spot at about 3000-3200 rpms on the ground or in the > air. > I have checked and regapped the plugs to .028, > cleaned out the bowls on the carbs, > cleaned off the neddle and dome area, sanded the > ground wire lugs for the coils to get a good ground. > Checked the carb Ballance -its ok. > It all has not helped at all, even makes the rough > ness worse some times. Going from 2k rpms- 3k rpms > it is almost like it is bogging down, and you have > to sort of pump the throttle to get the rpms past > the 3-3.2 k mark. > > Doing the mag check it is very rough on each side > also, and I am using gas with the 10 % methanol( > exact amount unknown ) > > My qquestion is any ideas on the cause, there was no > visible dirt or matter in the bowls either????? > > I am going to try and put in new plugs and then try > some AV gas instead. > > Let me know what you think > Thanks > Jay Want to start your own business? http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:34 AM PST US From: Jim Gilliatt Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Just where is this list going? Brian Rodgers wrote: > >Now that the list has degenerated from talking about Kitfox aircraft into: >1) a child car seat discussion forum (Matronics has a "General Interests >e-mail list for 90% of you) >2) a place to argue about FAA rules (there's only one interpretation that >matters, the FAA's, not y'alls) >3) an advertising opportunity for tire marketing >4) the Canadian enviromental / political viewpoint expression outlet >5) a place to spread opinions and other forms of disinformation on subjects >about which you know absolutely nothing > >it's time to leave you to it. I hit the 'delete' button way more now than I >used to with this list. >The above does not apply to the silent majority with sparse, but very >helpful advice. >Enjoy. >Brian > > > > Amen to your comments, Brian. My delete button is wearing out. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:19 AM PST US From: "Margaret Hastedt" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EA-81 Subaru Drivers Please give us details on that oil-to-water cooler! My non-turbo EA-81's oil temps are always much higher than the water temp (230+ deg. vs. 175 tops). No thermostat yet. I was just about to try my friend's external oil cooler, but would love info on alternatives as well. I don't have a lot of room for filter add-ons though. Thanks in advance, -Margaret H. Classic IV College Station, TX >>> n10pg@neo.rr.com 11/6/2006 7:06 PM >>> Gentlemen: You must be talking about turbo-charged NSI EA81s if you use oil coolers. The normally aspirated engine does not need an oilcooler. The oil will always be the same as the water temperature. I have run extensive instrumented tests to prove it. Peter Graichen http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm Oil to water cooler, fits on the filter body. From: GENTRYLL@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EA-81 Subaru Drivers I would say your scales were more accurate than mine but not by that much. The only things missing off the plane were the wood farings for the wing and landing gear struts. Instruments are basic, no radios or wheel pants. It is a 1050 and not a 1200. I really only entered the weight in the tread so someone could tell me if my speed/rpm/pitch relationship sounded right. By the way, I like the oil cooler idea for the oil temp but after looking on the internet at the oil filter adapter, I don't think I could get it on because you can't hardly get a filter on it now due to clearance with the motor mount. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:38 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . Just reading the mail here. It appears that if Steve is true to his convictions he should take the FAA to court ( after all it's a free country ) and let the chips fall where they may. If he can't afford to do that .... Too bad you will have to live with what ever FAA says their interpretation of their regulations are. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Timothy Colman > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:39 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is > right about LSA rules. . . > > > > My sense is that this argument has become an intellectual one > for you Steve. For me it is not intellectual. The rules, > and FAA's interpretation of them, will dictate exactly what I > fly. I have seen fairly authoritative sources say that you > are wrong, and someone posted a page from an EAA publication > that definitely says you are wrong. I speak as someone who > would love for you to be right. > > The difference between you and me is that I am not willing to > spend tons of money on the chance that you are right. Can > you get an FAA source to publicly agree with you? If not > let's all agree to move on. > > Tim Colman > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: 84KF > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2006 8:29:02 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right > about LSA rules. . . > > > > Just to show the irony in "Joe's" profound ultimation"... > My 1400 lb. Series 5 is still in"phase 1". and has newer > BEEN operated , since it's so called certification (when it > recieved it's AW cert.) at over 1320 lbs during that time. so > according to his NON- FAA APPROVED opinion it STILL is eligible. > Well ??? which is it? > See what happens when one tries to paraphrase and then state > the FAA rulings in their OWN language? > > Steve > > -------- > Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding > wings!!!) > New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. > Thanks to the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73088#73088 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:48 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . .. From: "84KF" When you read , and understand, the rules and regulations you will learn, beyond a shadow of doubt, and in proper English, that : 1) You may fly a 1550 design weight amateur-built aircraft under sport pilot privileges., 2) You may remove the in-flight adjustable propeller from you amateur-built aircraft and install a fixed pitch propeller, and still be eligible for use under sport pilot privileges. 3) The since words original certification has continued to meet the following is only applicable to aircraft manufactured under TC or TCDS. 4) That the actual mass of the aircraft , at the time of takeoff, is, at that time, the determining factor., not a design weight, or any other interpretation of maximum takeoff weight These are your privileges, that the FAA has stated are not affected , so as amateur- homebuilt status we just move along. We are not involved that much in their certification and regulation process , which is the issue to them. Not our silly design weight. This is not an opinion. These are the facts and they are correct. -------- Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!) New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73126#73126 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:20 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: IvoProp Numbers From: "crazyivan" After replacing my GSC Prop with an IvoProp Here are a few numbers for comparison. I have a Kitfox Speedster with a 912 UL (80hp). These aren't strict test condition numbers but they are close... Conditions: temp-50F Wind -------- Dave Speedster 912 UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73129#73129 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:49 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules Folks, Don and I have really tried to sit on our hands while letting the list members do most of the policing here. However, it hasn't been working very well and this list is basically turning into a chat forum for whatever anyone feels they want to chat about. That is not what this list is about and now we have people leaving the list because of the amount of so called "off topic" rhetoric. Just because one puts "off topic" or "fluff" in the subject line does not entitle one to post whatever one feels they are inclined. This is a Kitfox list and is primarily focused on Kitfox related discussions and issues. We've always allowed some leeway for the occasional fluff, and the occasional personal sale of products, and even the reasonable offering of commercial products produced by Kitfox list members. What has slowly happened is the list has degenerated and we need to get it back on track so that our members can get back to focusing on what they joined this list for. If any of you are not Kitfox owners or builders and just want to lurk here, that's fine and you're welcome. Just obey the rules (you all received a set when you subscribed) jump in to the thread when you have a question or something meaningful to add. Now, just a couple more things. Please, before you post, look at your message and ask yourself it is pertinent/relevant and meaningful before you hit send. If you aren't sure then either delete it or let it set for a while. Often you'll have a different perspective at a later time. By all means, use the "do n*t arch*ve" when necessary. All it does is keep that message from being saved in the archives. Everyone will still receive it. Do not make up your own rules just because it suits you. This list is for all 500+ of us and for list harmony it's important that we follow the guidelines set up for it. I'm requesting your cooperation on this. The list health is important. Before any of you respond to this please ask yourself it's in the best interest of the list. Also, neither Don nor I get paid for this and we don't enjoy having to write these letters so please think twice before throwing any rocks. One last thing. Matt Dralle works very hard to provide this forum for us. Just in case some of you don't realize it, this list is NOT FREE. Currently Matt is running his annual fund raiser for your much need contribution. Please be as generous as your wallet allows to keep the Matronics lists running. Thanks. Below, I've pasted the list rules. Please read them. Thanks to all of you for your cooperation. Sincerely, Deke Morisse and Don Pearsall Kitfox List Administrators Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:13 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . Steve, I admire your tenacity. However, you've made your point many times over and it's time to put this topic to bed. Thanks, Deke Morisse List Administrator ----- Original Message ----- From: "84KF" Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . . > > When you read , and understand, the rules and regulations you will learn, beyond a shadow of doubt, and in proper English, that : > > 1) You may fly a 1550 design weight amateur-built aircraft under sport pilot privileges., > > 2) You may remove the in-flight adjustable propeller from you ?oamateur-built? aircraft and install a fixed pitch propeller, and still be eligible for use under sport pilot privileges. > > 3) The since words ?ooriginal certification has continued to meet the following? is only applicable to aircraft manufactured under TC or TCDS. > > 4) That the actual ?omass? of the aircraft , at the time of takeoff, is, at that time, the determining factor., not a design weight, or any other interpretation of ?omaximum takeoff weight? > > These are your privileges, that the FAA has stated are not affected , so as ?oamateur- homebuilt? status we just move along. We are not involved that much in their certification and regulation process , which is the issue to them. Not our silly design weight. > > This is not an opinion. These are the facts and they are correct. > > -------- > Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!) > New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73126#73126 > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:38 AM PST US From: "Patrick Kelly" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules I just signed up for this the other night and am still trying to figure the system out, as it seems i am getting 2 of every thing in my email. plus it appears that this is not just about kitfoxes but whatever. I am brand new at this but this is ready to have me leave all ready and I looked at it for a day. So I probably wont be staying, I didnt see anything about money contributions ect either when i joined up, not that i wouldnt contribute but not to only having looked at it for a day and start getting those also plus nothing about kitfoxs.....am i doing something wrong? the threads dont continue or anything......LOst -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules Folks, Don and I have really tried to sit on our hands while letting the list members do most of the policing here. However, it hasn't been working very well and this list is basically turning into a chat forum for whatever anyone feels they want to chat about. That is not what this list is about and now we have people leaving the list because of the amount of so called "off topic" rhetoric. Just because one puts "off topic" or "fluff" in the subject line does not entitle one to post whatever one feels they are inclined. This is a Kitfox list and is primarily focused on Kitfox related discussions and issues. We've always allowed some leeway for the occasional fluff, and the occasional personal sale of products, and even the reasonable offering of commercial products produced by Kitfox list members. What has slowly happened is the list has degenerated and we need to get it back on track so that our members can get back to focusing on what they joined this list for. If any of you are not Kitfox owners or builders and just want to lurk here, that's fine and you're welcome. Just obey the rules (you all received a set when you subscribed) jump in to the thread when you have a question or something meaningful to add. Now, just a couple more things. Please, before you post, look at your message and ask yourself it is pertinent/relevant and meaningful before you hit send. If you aren't sure then either delete it or let it set for a while. Often you'll have a different perspective at a later time. By all means, use the "do n*t arch*ve" when necessary. All it does is keep that message from being saved in the archives. Everyone will still receive it. Do not make up your own rules just because it suits you. This list is for all 500+ of us and for list harmony it's important that we follow the guidelines set up for it. I'm requesting your cooperation on this. The list health is important. Before any of you respond to this please ask yourself it's in the best interest of the list. Also, neither Don nor I get paid for this and we don't enjoy having to write these letters so please think twice before throwing any rocks. One last thing. Matt Dralle works very hard to provide this forum for us. Just in case some of you don't realize it, this list is NOT FREE. Currently Matt is running his annual fund raiser for your much need contribution. Please be as generous as your wallet allows to keep the Matronics lists running. Thanks. Below, I've pasted the list rules. Please read them. Thanks to all of you for your cooperation. Sincerely, Deke Morisse and Don Pearsall Kitfox List Administrators Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:21 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Basic question : If Steve is right about LSA rules. . .. From: "84KF" To all, In case you havent noticed, I have a lot time on my hands. Life is good. If I have a question about LSA issues , I need the correct answer, from someone who is irreproachable I go straight to the source. In this case: Federal Register: July 27, 2004 (Volume 69, Number 143) Page 44771-44882 Certification of Aircraft and Airmen for the Operation of Light-Sport Aircraft As we all know, when you ask the FAA anything, its not a cut and dry situation. The same here. It requires over 100 (110) pages.. over 103,000 words, to address all the issues and clarify each as to leave no loopholes or room for interpretation. I do not interpret , I verify, confirm or disallow, according to the determining regulatory publication. Just my opinion when a reply is to be made to a subject, Use the REPLY TO button on the bottom of the last post . This maintains continuity of the subject, and does not clutter the master page with repeated postings. Yes, I find this a distraction (too) and has the perception of an argument, as compared to an ongoing discussion of a specific topic that is very selectable. Does perhaps posting from an off site access page break the continuity? It seems that off site readers do not have the features available to go with the flow? I dont know. Anyway, Im done. This is my last reply to any of the issues I presented for comment and discussion. If it will reduce the tension provoked by the argumentative and misinformed, so be it. I will continue to lurk, and gleen the wonderful technical info as it progresses. Deke, Thanks for your patience steve -------- Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!) New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73149#73149 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:33 AM PST US From: "JC Propellerdesign" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IvoProp Numbers -50F is very cold. ;-) Did you have the same WOT RPM so you don't compeer apples with pears. Dave got 102 with Warp and 104 with GSC but a little colder giving 2 HP or so more explaining one (1) MPH Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: crazyivan To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: IvoProp Numbers After replacing my GSC Prop with an IvoProp Here are a few numbers for comparison. I have a Kitfox Speedster with a 912 UL (80hp). These aren't strict test condition numbers but they are close... Conditions: temp-50F Wind -------- Dave Speedster 912 UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73129#73129 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:05 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IvoProp Numbers Are we missing something here??? Do not archive Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of crazyivan > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 12:55 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: IvoProp Numbers > > > > After replacing my GSC Prop with an IvoProp Here are a few > numbers for comparison. I have a Kitfox Speedster with a 912 > UL (80hp). These aren't strict test condition numbers but > they are close... > > Conditions: temp-50F Wind > > -------- > Dave > Speedster 912 UL > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73129#73129 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:09 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules Pat: don't get too disappointed too fast.... This seems to be the beginning of the silly season and in that I include myself. In the past few months there have been many topics relevant to purchasing, maintaining, building and operating these fine aircraft. I have no doubt that in short order we will all get back on the tracks. Are you interested in buying, building or flying??? Noel Model III-A, 582 B box, Aerocet Floats. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Kelly Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 1:20 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules I just signed up for this the other night and am still trying to figure the system out, as it seems i am getting 2 of every thing in my email. plus it appears that this is not just about kitfoxes but whatever. I am brand new at this but this is ready to have me leave all ready and I looked at it for a day. So I probably wont be staying, I didnt see anything about money contributions ect either when i joined up, not that i wouldnt contribute but not to only having looked at it for a day and start getting those also plus nothing about kitfoxs.....am i doing something wrong? the threads dont continue or anything......LOst -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules Folks, Don and I have really tried to sit on our hands while letting the list members do most of the policing here. However, it hasn't been working very well and this list is basically turning into a chat forum for whatever anyone feels they want to chat about. That is not what this list is about and now we have people leaving the list because of the amount of so called "off topic" rhetoric. Just because one puts "off topic" or "fluff" in the subject line does not entitle one to post whatever one feels they are inclined. This is a Kitfox list and is primarily focused on Kitfox related discussions and issues. We've always allowed some leeway for the occasional fluff, and the occasional personal sale of products, and even the reasonable offering of commercial products produced by Kitfox list members. What has slowly happened is the list has degenerated and we need to get it back on track so that our members can get back to focusing on what they joined this list for. If any of you are not Kitfox owners or builders and just want to lurk here, that's fine and you're welcome. Just obey the rules (you all received a set when you subscribed) jump in to the thread when you have a question or something meaningful to add. Now, just a couple more things. Please, before you post, look at your message and ask yourself it is pertinent/relevant and meaningful before you hit send. If you aren't sure then either delete it or let it set for a while. Often you'll have a different perspective at a later time. By all means, use the "do n*t arch*ve" when necessary. All it does is keep that message from being saved in the archives. Everyone will still receive it. Do not make up your own rules just because it suits you. This list is for all 500+ of us and for list harmony it's important that we follow the guidelines set up for it. I'm requesting your cooperation on this. The list health is important. Before any of you respond to this please ask yourself it's in the best interest of the list. Also, neither Don nor I get paid for this and we don't enjoy having to write these letters so please think twice before throwing any rocks. One last thing. Matt Dralle works very hard to provide this forum for us. Just in case some of you don't realize it, this list is NOT FREE. Currently Matt is running his annual fund raiser for your much need contribution. Please be as generous as your wallet allows to keep the Matronics lists running. Thanks. Below, I've pasted the list rules. Please read them. Thanks to all of you for your cooperation. Sincerely, Deke Morisse and Don Pearsall Kitfox List Administrators Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:09 AM PST US From: GENTRYLL@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EA-81 Subaru Drivers Margaret couldn't have said it better. I made the initial thread and my oil temp is 250 with a water temp of 150. The wrap around heat sinks sold in Spruce for around $30.00 would be the easiest fix if it truly reduces temps by 12%. Anybody know if it works. I also was just looking at my oil pan which is a dry sump and on an NSI is only about an inch from the muffler which is strapped on botton, crossing over to each side. Would putting a layer of insulating material on bottom of the sump possibly work? Is there possibly a mechanical reason for the diff in temp of the oil and water? ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IvoProp Numbers From: "Ben-PA" Noel, I didn't get the numbers either. They are on the web page. Conditions: temp-50F Wind -------- Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: http://www.frappr.com/kitfox You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of the Kitfox world. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73165#73165 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:30 AM PST US From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: IvoProp Numbers That's weird, I copied and pasted the specs and they didn't come through on the email just like the original. DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben-PA To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: 11/08/2006 1:48 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IvoProp Numbers Noel, I didn't get the numbers either. They are on the web page. Conditions: temp-50F Wind -------- Sign up on the Kitfox Frappr Map: http://www.frappr.com/kitfox You can see where fellow Kitfoxers live and pictures of their planes. Be sure to post some pictures of you, your plane, or share the scenery of the Kitfox world. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73165#73165 -- 11/7/2006 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:52 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL Kurt, This might be right on the money. One of the local 912 guys got rid of his rough spot by raising the needle one notch. I followed suit. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:23 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL > > > Sounds lean and not safe to fly. Make sure you get > that fixed first. You may be a bit lean overall and > that range is just the worst of the bunch. How are > your EGTs? > > Kurt S. S-5 > > --- Jay Fabian wrote: > >> Hi List, >> I have a 912 UL with 145 tthours. It had a rough >> spot at about 3000-3200 rpms on the ground or in the >> air. >> I have checked and regapped the plugs to .028, >> cleaned out the bowls on the carbs, >> cleaned off the neddle and dome area, sanded the >> ground wire lugs for the coils to get a good ground. >> Checked the carb Ballance -its ok. >> It all has not helped at all, even makes the rough >> ness worse some times. Going from 2k rpms- 3k rpms >> it is almost like it is bogging down, and you have >> to sort of pump the throttle to get the rpms past >> the 3-3.2 k mark. >> >> Doing the mag check it is very rough on each side >> also, and I am using gas with the 10 % methanol( >> exact amount unknown ) >> >> My qquestion is any ideas on the cause, there was no >> visible dirt or matter in the bowls either????? >> >> I am going to try and put in new plugs and then try >> some AV gas instead. >> >> Let me know what you think >> Thanks >> Jay > > > Want to start your own business? > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL From: "Torgeir Mortensen" Hi there Jay, Good description of your rough running engine. Just change all spark plugs as you suggested, I don't think that you'll need to change the fuel, -but it is a good idea. Methanol/ethanol blended fuel is known to cause starting problems during cold season. The ignition system Ducati is of the type "wasted spark" system, I.E. firing twice as often as necessary. However, this is Rotax/Ducati philosophy, and work great.. The importance here is that one coil winding is firing two sparkplugs (installed in two different cylinders) at same time, one active and the other passive (would not ignite anything as this piston is in bottom). Over time "one" of the plug "might" become some contaminated (sooty and carbonized). Those two spark plugs can be compared with two resistors. Since one of the plugs occasionally can be partly shorted, -most of the spark energy dimish and most of the spark energy is transferred to the healthy spark plug. Occasionally one plug might short and this can vary and play havoc with you. :) So, the moral is look at the plug electrode and see if there's one with darker color, and if you change this plug you must change the "twin" plug going to the other cylinder. I.E. the "twin plug" is the one connected to the same coil as the "sooty" one. But as a rule, we normally change all igniters at the same interval. P.S. In the ol. days, we leaned the engine on ground for some time -then the mag check become ok. and the fun could start. :) Good luck. Torgeir. On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 05:02:50 +0100, Jay Fabian wrote: > Hi List, > I have a 912 UL with 145 tthours. It had a rough spot at about 3000-3200 > rpms on the ground or in the air. > I have checked and regapped the plugs to .028, > cleaned out the bowls on the carbs, > cleaned off the neddle and dome area, sanded the ground wire lugs for > the coils to get a good ground. > Checked the carb Ballance -its ok. > It all has not helped at all, even makes the rough ness worse some > times. Going from 2k rpms- 3k rpms it is almost like it is bogging down, > and you have to sort of pump the throttle to get the rpms past the 3-3.2 > k mark. > > Doing the mag check it is very rough on each side also, and I am using > gas with the 10 % methanol( exact amount unknown ) > > My qquestion is any ideas on the cause, there was no visible dirt or > matter in the bowls either????? > > I am going to try and put in new plugs and then try some AV gas instead. > > Let me know what you think > Thanks > Jay -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:48 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules MessagePatrick, I am forwarding your message to Matt Dralle, the Matronics Host for his action. Deke Morisse Kitfox List Administrator ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Kelly To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules I just signed up for this the other night and am still trying to figure the system out, as it seems i am getting 2 of every thing in my email. plus it appears that this is not just about kitfoxes but whatever. I am brand new at this but this is ready to have me leave all ready and I looked at it for a day. So I probably wont be staying, I didnt see anything about money contributions ect either when i joined up, not that i wouldnt contribute but not to only having looked at it for a day and start getting those also plus nothing about kitfoxs.....am i doing something wrong? the threads dont continue or anything......LOst -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:29 AM To: Kitfox List Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules Folks, Don and I have really tried to sit on our hands while letting the list members do most of the policing here. However, it hasn't been working very well and this list is basically turning into a chat forum for whatever anyone feels they want to chat about. That is not what this list is about and now we have people leaving the list because of the amount of so called "off topic" rhetoric. Just because one puts "off topic" or "fluff" in the subject line does not entitle one to post whatever one feels they are inclined. This is a Kitfox list and is primarily focused on Kitfox related discussions and issues. We've always allowed some leeway for the occasional fluff, and the occasional personal sale of products, and even the reasonable offering of commercial products produced by Kitfox list members. What has slowly happened is the list has degenerated and we need to get it back on track so that our members can get back to focusing on what they joined this list for. If any of you are not Kitfox owners or builders and just want to lurk here, that's fine and you're welcome. Just obey the rules (you all received a set when you subscribed) jump in to the thread when you have a question or something meaningful to add. Now, just a couple more things. Please, before you post, look at your message and ask yourself it is pertinent/relevant and meaningful before you hit send. If you aren't sure then either delete it or let it set for a while. Often you'll have a different perspective at a later time. By all means, use the "do n*t arch*ve" when necessary. All it does is keep that message from being saved in the archives. Everyone will still receive it. Do not make up your own rules just because it suits you. This list is for all 500+ of us and for list harmony it's important that we follow the guidelines set up for it. I'm requesting your cooperation on this. The list health is important. Before any of you respond to this please ask yourself it's in the best interest of the list. Also, neither Don nor I get paid for this and we don't enjoy having to write these letters so please think twice before throwing any rocks. One last thing. Matt Dralle works very hard to provide this forum for us. Just in case some of you don't realize it, this list is NOT FREE. Currently Matt is running his annual fund raiser for your much need contribution. Please be as generous as your wallet allows to keep the Matronics lists running. Thanks. Below, I've pasted the list rules. Please read them. Thanks to all of you for your cooperation. Sincerely, Deke Morisse and Don Pearsall Kitfox List Administrators Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:24 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IvoProp Numbers From: "crazyivan" I'm actually working off of the forums.matronics.com site and not the list site. I guess some of the data don't translate. Try this link... http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=17756 Jan...Maine is cold but not that bad yet. +50. [Laughing] The engine rpm for the GSC and Ivo set for cruise were about the same: 4900 static and 5500 cruise. -------- Dave Speedster 912 UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73189#73189 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:42 PM PST US From: "Joe & Jan Connell" Subject: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Treaded Tyres My Kitfox-II went through 2 pairs of LEAF skinned tundra tires (size 20 x 700 - 8, two-ply) at $115 each. I've been flying it since 1997. Nearly all my landings are on cement. Last year our airport, KRST, extended the primary runway and cut rain grooves in the new addition. In no time I was seeing cords (my technique could also be a factor!) At any rate I bought pair of the same sized tires at our local "Fleet Farm Store" in Rochester, MN for about $60 total. They are 4-ply with half-inch knobs. Works fine for me... Joe Connell Stewartville, MN ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IvoProp Numbers From: "Torgeir Mortensen" Well Noel, > Are we missing something here??? > Do not archive > Noel You'll have to click this link, to get the numbers. IMHO., the numbers could be printed here > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73129#73129 Torgeir. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:36 PM PST US From: "JC Propellerdesign" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: IvoProp Numbers I am surprised that Dave's GSC did that good, What stile is it you have on the Warp? straight or taper? Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: crazyivan To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 10:25 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: IvoProp Numbers I'm actually working off of the forums.matronics.com site and not the list site. I guess some of the data don't translate. Try this link... http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=17756 Jan...Maine is cold but not that bad yet. +50. [Laughing] The engine rpm for the GSC and Ivo set for cruise were about the same: 4900 static and 5500 cruise. -------- Dave Speedster 912 UL ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:35 PM PST US From: "Patrick Kelly" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules thanks for the info....will hang out a bit longer and see what becomes of this I just purchased a kitfox c-iv and am going to finish a unfinished project......the experimenal is all new to me. so was just surfing when i found this site and decided to check into it.....so will observe and see if going to stay on here....looks like I could learn a lot from here but it seems like I get tons of emailed versions of what everyone said and not the whole story so a bit confusing......probalby me or however i am on this list.. i thought you could just follow a thread, or maybe i need to fix the settings or something to foollow along if this site has that option. anyway will observe and see....thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 1:28 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules Pat: don't get too disappointed too fast.... This seems to be the beginning of the silly season and in that I include myself. In the past few months there have been many topics relevant to purchasing, maintaining, building and operating these fine aircraft. I have no doubt that in short order we will all get back on the tracks. Are you interested in buying, building or flying??? Noel Model III-A, 582 B box, Aerocet Floats. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Kelly Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 1:20 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules I just signed up for this the other night and am still trying to figure the system out, as it seems i am getting 2 of every thing in my email. plus it appears that this is not just about kitfoxes but whatever. I am brand new at this but this is ready to have me leave all ready and I looked at it for a day. So I probably wont be staying, I didnt see anything about money contributions ect either when i joined up, not that i wouldnt contribute but not to only having looked at it for a day and start getting those also plus nothing about kitfoxs.....am i doing something wrong? the threads dont continue or anything......LOst -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List Rules Folks, Don and I have really tried to sit on our hands while letting the list members do most of the policing here. However, it hasn't been working very well and this list is basically turning into a chat forum for whatever anyone feels they want to chat about. That is not what this list is about and now we have people leaving the list because of the amount of so called "off topic" rhetoric. Just because one puts "off topic" or "fluff" in the subject line does not entitle one to post whatever one feels they are inclined. This is a Kitfox list and is primarily focused on Kitfox related discussions and issues. We've always allowed some leeway for the occasional fluff, and the occasional personal sale of products, and even the reasonable offering of commercial products produced by Kitfox list members. What has slowly happened is the list has degenerated and we need to get it back on track so that our members can get back to focusing on what they joined this list for. If any of you are not Kitfox owners or builders and just want to lurk here, that's fine and you're welcome. Just obey the rules (you all received a set when you subscribed) jump in to the thread when you have a question or something meaningful to add. Now, just a couple more things. Please, before you post, look at your message and ask yourself it is pertinent/relevant and meaningful before you hit send. If you aren't sure then either delete it or let it set for a while. Often you'll have a different perspective at a later time. By all means, use the "do n*t arch*ve" when necessary. All it does is keep that message from being saved in the archives. Everyone will still receive it. Do not make up your own rules just because it suits you. This list is for all 500+ of us and for list harmony it's important that we follow the guidelines set up for it. I'm requesting your cooperation on this. The list health is important. Before any of you respond to this please ask yourself it's in the best interest of the list. Also, neither Don nor I get paid for this and we don't enjoy having to write these letters so please think twice before throwing any rocks. One last thing. Matt Dralle works very hard to provide this forum for us. Just in case some of you don't realize it, this list is NOT FREE. Currently Matt is running his annual fund raiser for your much need contribution. Please be as generous as your wallet allows to keep the Matronics lists running. Thanks. Below, I've pasted the list rules. Please read them. Thanks to all of you for your cooperation. Sincerely, Deke Morisse and Don Pearsall Kitfox List Administrators Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:28 PM PST US From: "john perry" Subject: Kitfox-List: Patrick Kelly MessagePatrick Welcome to the Kitfox world . Hope you find all the info you need here . Where are you located?. Someone may be near you that has a flying fox or building one also . Take care fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX John Perry ,Cache OKlAHOMA Kitfox 2 N718PD TD/ Straight floats Hot pink IVO Inflight DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:01 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL Thanks Lowell, As you know, I dont have a 912, but lean is lean on any 4 cycle and I know about sagging power on others. My old 2 cycle would run pretty happily rich or lean, until you fouled a plug or burn a cylinder, but dont mess with the timing. That was touchy. Kurt S. Do not archive --- Lowell Fitt wrote: > Kurt, > > This might be right on the money. One of the local > 912 guys got rid of his > rough spot by raising the needle one notch. I > followed suit. > > Lowell Sponsored Link $200,000 mortgage for $660/mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt, home equity - Click now for info http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:39 PM PST US From: "Jay Fabian" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL Ok, So far I cleaned out the top diafram area with carb cleaner, and the needle had a slight dark ring of residue on it on both pins. Diaphrams are fine, and back in place Inlet tubes look fine, Carb sockets have about 20 hours on them, and are clamped correctly, One thing I noticed when taking off the top cover of the carbs there is a dark silver / oil looking residue on the two parts that hold the big spring in place. I did not know if it is oil for the spring or just the aluminum rubbing off from the spring. I left it as is for now. Test ran it and the same issues are happenning. I ran out of light so I will try the plugs, and the teflon seat and valves for wear as per the maitenance book. I know of people that change the jets 2 X per year depending on temps, but since I built it I have not had to change them at all. The egts have been great and only fluctuate very little all year round 90deg- 20 deg F. Where is the middle range system located? Is that up behind the float valves? I hope to get over there Thursday sometime. Thanks Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: JC Propellerdesign To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:56 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL To me it sounds (without hearing the engine) that it get to little fuel at that rpm range, can also be to rich. Idle adjustment? carb diaphragm? Leaking inlet tubes? dirt in the middle range system? Jan Carlsson jcpropellerdesign.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Fabian To: kitfox list Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:02 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL Hi List, I have a 912 UL with 145 tthours. It had a rough spot at about 3000-3200 rpms on the ground or in the air. I have checked and regapped the plugs to .028, cleaned out the bowls on the carbs, cleaned off the neddle and dome area, sanded the ground wire lugs for the coils to get a good ground. Checked the carb Ballance -its ok. It all has not helped at all, even makes the rough ness worse some times. Going from 2k rpms- 3k rpms it is almost like it is bogging down, and you have to sort of pump the throttle to get the rpms past the 3-3.2 k mark. Doing the mag check it is very rough on each side also, and I am using gas with the 10 % methanol( exact amount unknown ) My qquestion is any ideas on the cause, there was no visible dirt or matter in the bowls either????? I am going to try and put in new plugs and then try some AV gas instead. Let me know what you think Thanks Jay href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/7/2006 ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:28 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox List Rules From: "jakelewis" Try using this link to view the list. http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8 It makes it easier to follow the threads. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73260#73260 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:23 PM PST US From: Ceashman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List administrators Hello Deke and Don. This is Eric Ashman (Atlanta) I have been thinking of this for a couple of weeks. I spend a lot of time out of town on business and on returning I find sometimes well over a hundred posts. Trouble is quite a lot of them are unrelated to Kitfox building, maintenance or flying. I find another issue of a couple of dozen posts answering the same subject by lots of people and somehow the conversation, kind of gets diluted from the original subject and drifts freely. I am not saying this is terribly wrong but usually I have enough to do around the house and hangar when home and I really don't want to spend an hour or two browsing the list. This is my feeling. I have enjoyed some of the discussions and some topics have been very interesting for me. Some posts from a number of you guys have been fun and enjoyable, this will be the stuff I will miss. Who knows, sometime down the line I will apply for group therapy again :) For now, Deke and Don, would you please remove my name from the list. Thanks ever so much. Have a great Christmas holiday everyone. Eric, Classic IV. Atlanta ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:14 PM PST US From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List administrators Pitty this list can't operate like the Yahoo type in that if you wish you can choose the option of logging on to read messages as opposed to getting sent direct. You can then choose what to read and the in box doesn't get chocked up when one is away from home. From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List administrators Hello Deke and Don. This is Eric Ashman (Atlanta) I have been thinking of this for a couple of weeks. I spend a lot of time out of town on business and on returning I find sometimes well over a hundred posts. Trouble is quite a lot of them are unrelated to Kitfox building, maintenance or flying. I find another issue of a couple of dozen posts answering the same subject by lots of people and somehow the conversation, kind of gets diluted from the original subject and drifts freely. I am not saying this is terribly wrong but usually I have enough to do around the house and hangar when home and I really don't want to spend an hour or two browsing the list. This is my feeling. I have enjoyed some of the discussions and some topics have been very interesting for me. Some posts from a number of you guys have been fun and enjoyable, this will be the stuff I will miss. Who knows, sometime down the line I will apply for group therapy again :) For now, Deke and Don, would you please remove my name from the list. Thanks ever so much. Have a great Christmas holiday everyone. Eric, Classic IV. Atlanta _________________________________________________________________ Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @ http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:39 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox List administrators At 11:10 PM 11/8/2006 Wednesday, you wrote: > >Pitty this list can't operate like the Yahoo type in that if you wish you can choose the option of logging on to read messages as opposed to getting sent direct. You can then choose what to read and the in box doesn't get chocked up when one is away from home. John, You should check out the Matronics Email List Forums. They give you exactly that functionality. They are tied directly to the Matronics Email Lists and any content is cross posted between the email lists and the forum and vis-a-versa. That way you can get your List content in either way you prefer. Check out this URL: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8 Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:38 PM PST US From: "JC Propellerdesign" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL If it have that system (I am not sure) there is one or more extra holes close to the closed throttle valve, clean this and or the idle jet, and or adjust the idle mixture, because the idle system is working about one third up in the register. Se http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax912/912-914bingCarb.htm Jan Off-idle circuit As the throttle is opened up slightly from the fully closed position, the throttle plate uncovers additional fuel delivery holes behind the throttle plate where there is a low pressure area created by the throttle plate blocking air flow; these allow more fuel to flow as well as compensating for the reduced vacuum that occurs when the throttle is opened, thus smoothing the transition to metering fuel flow through the regular open throttle circuit. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Fabian To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 3:28 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL Ok, So far I cleaned out the top diafram area with carb cleaner, and the needle had a slight dark ring of residue on it on both pins. Diaphrams are fine, and back in place Inlet tubes look fine, Carb sockets have about 20 hours on them, and are clamped correctly, One thing I noticed when taking off the top cover of the carbs there is a dark silver / oil looking residue on the two parts that hold the big spring in place. I did not know if it is oil for the spring or just the aluminum rubbing off from the spring. I left it as is for now. Test ran it and the same issues are happenning. I ran out of light so I will try the plugs, and the teflon seat and valves for wear as per the maitenance book. I know of people that change the jets 2 X per year depending on temps, but since I built it I have not had to change them at all. The egts have been great and only fluctuate very little all year round 90deg- 20 deg F. Where is the middle range system located? Is that up behind the float valves? I hope to get over there Thursday sometime. Thanks Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: JC Propellerdesign To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:56 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL To me it sounds (without hearing the engine) that it get to little fuel at that rpm range, can also be to rich. Idle adjustment? carb diaphragm? Leaking inlet tubes? dirt in the middle range system? Jan Carlsson jcpropellerdesign.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Fabian To: kitfox list Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:02 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL Hi List, I have a 912 UL with 145 tthours. It had a rough spot at about 3000-3200 rpms on the ground or in the air. I have checked and regapped the plugs to .028, cleaned out the bowls on the carbs, cleaned off the neddle and dome area, sanded the ground wire lugs for the coils to get a good ground. Checked the carb Ballance -its ok. It all has not helped at all, even makes the rough ness worse some times. Going from 2k rpms- 3k rpms it is almost like it is bogging down, and you have to sort of pump the throttle to get the rpms past the 3-3.2 k mark. Doing the mag check it is very rough on each side also, and I am using gas with the 10 % methanol( exact amount unknown ) My qquestion is any ideas on the cause, there was no visible dirt or matter in the bowls either????? I am going to try and put in new plugs and then try some AV gas instead. Let me know what you think Thanks Jay href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 11/7/2006