Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 10:12 PM - Wiki... (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:36 AM - Flaperon weights (Eric)
2. 06:04 AM - Re: Buffed down tyres (Tom Jones)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: PTT switch (Lowell Fitt)
4. 07:51 AM - FAA aircraft chart for download (84KF)
5. 07:59 AM - Re: PTT switch (dave)
6. 08:45 AM - Re: PTT switch (Marco Menezes)
7. 08:47 AM - Re: FAA aircraft chart for download (JC Propellerdesign)
8. 09:30 AM - Rotax 912 or 912S decision (Brent E Bidus)
9. 09:30 AM - Bluetooth GPS Receiver (kitfoxjunky)
10. 09:33 AM - Re: IvoProp Numbers (kitfoxjunky)
11. 09:37 AM - Re: Treaded Tyres (kitfoxjunky)
12. 09:41 AM - Re: Quoting Text On The Forum... (Matt Dralle)
13. 09:55 AM - Re: Bluetooth GPS Receiver (flier)
14. 10:29 AM - Re: Bluetooth GPS Receiver (Michel Verheughe)
15. 10:33 AM - Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision (darinh)
16. 10:44 AM - Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision (Lowell Fitt)
17. 10:45 AM - Re: Left turning tendency - Off Topic! (Randy Daughenbaugh)
18. 12:14 PM - Re: PTT switch (Lynn Matteson)
19. 12:26 PM - Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision (Rexster)
20. 12:33 PM - Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision (JC Propellerdesign)
21. 12:46 PM - Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision (Richard D'Archangel)
22. 01:01 PM - Fire extinguisher Mount Location (Tom Jones)
23. 01:05 PM - Re: PTT switch (Noel Loveys)
24. 01:37 PM - Re: Left turning tendency (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
25. 01:38 PM - Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location (Lynn Matteson)
26. 01:43 PM - Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
27. 02:32 PM - Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location (Roger Circle)
28. 03:07 PM - Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location (crazyivan)
29. 03:43 PM - Tires slipping on rims (Randy Daughenbaugh)
30. 04:02 PM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL (Paul)
31. 05:01 PM - Re: Tires slipping on rims (Lynn Matteson)
32. 05:24 PM - Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision (darinh)
33. 05:42 PM - Re: Tires slipping on rims (GENTRYLL@aol.com)
34. 05:56 PM - Re: Tires slipping on rims (Jimmie Blackwell)
35. 06:31 PM - Re: Tires slipping on rims (Noel Loveys)
36. 06:36 PM - Re: Kitfox CFI is Moving... (Tom Jones)
37. 07:48 PM - Rough Running 912 UL Fixed! (Jay Fabian)
38. 09:38 PM - Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location (Guy Buchanan)
39. 09:38 PM - Re: Left turning tendency (Guy Buchanan)
Message 0
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Dear Listers,
I added a new Wiki web site to the Matronics Email List features earlier this year. What's a Wiki, you ask? Well, here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) definition:
A wiki (IPA: [ w .ki ] <WICK-ee> or [ wi .ki ] <WEE-kee>) is a type of Web site
that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit
and change some available content, sometimes without the need for registration.
This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for
collaborative authoring. The term wiki also can refer to the collaborative software
itself (wiki engine) that facilitates the operation of such a Web site,
or to certain specific wiki sites, including the computer science site (an original
wiki), WikiWikiWeb, and on-line encyclopedias such as Wikipedia.
Under the Matronics Email List Moniker, there is now a very nice List-specific
Wiki available! It a place for Listers to put articles about any aviation topic
that suits them. The purpose is to provide what the mailing lists do not:
structure and persistence. The mailing lists are a fantastic resource to ask
a question and get good (and bad and funny and annoying) answers. But once the
question is asked and answered it is not in front of the List anymore. If a
new person subscribes the next day, he/she does not see that information unless
he/she goes to the trouble to search the archives, a hit or miss proposition.
The result is that the same thread of conversation gets created and/or revisited.
There are several things that happen as a result:
1. The person gets his or her question answered;
2. The information gets better as more people think about and answer the question;
3. The people who have seen the same question asked and answered get annoyed
at seeing the same things over and over and over and ...
So this is where the Wiki comes in. You know what questions you wanted answered.
You may have asked or answered the question. You know the information is useful.
So you put the information here, in the Matronics Email List Wiki!
It doesn't matter that this information is 100% complete or correct. Just writing
something creates a placeholder and makes useful information available immediately.
It has the same immediacy as the mailing list but it has persistence
and structure.
But what if the information is incomplete or incorrect? No problem! Anyone else
coming along can edit the article! If I write something and you discover something
I have left out or stated incorrectly, you can fix it right then!
So let's begin and make this the place for information about building, flying,
maintaining, and understanding our airplanes.
But what about whether something is "appropriate" or not? Don't worry. Write
it down. Let the reader determine whether or not it is appropriate. If it is,
he/she will read it. If it isn't, he/she won't. It's as simple as that.
And when you do write that article you won't have to worry about whether some editor
is going to decide whether or not to print it in a newsletter or whether
the webmaster will have time to put it up on the web page.
The last question I hear brewing out there is: if anyone can post anything, won't
this just become a mass of garbage? Surprisingly, the answer is a resounding
no. If you want proof, go visit the Wikipedia, a free-to-everyone encyclopedia
written by whoever wants to write articles. The articles there are as good
as anything I have read anywhere and anyone can add anything anytime they want
to.
So don't hesitate. Write it down. Put it here. It will never hurt anyone. The
more information we get here, the more useful it will become to other people
and the more information they will put here for YOU to use.
Here's the URL to start (there are lots more bured under this starting place):
http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Matronics:Community_Portal
But please don't forget that this Wiki and all of the other Matronics Email List
features are supported solely by YOUR Contributions!! November is List Fund
Raiser month and there are lots of Free Gifts to be had with your qualifying
Contribution. Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these great services!!! Thank you!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Flaperon weights |
There is a set of Kitfox flaperon weights on eBay right now.
Eric
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Buffed down tyres |
> the buffed down tyres were only two ply and they only had to see a grass field
and they went flat.
>
> Okay, thanks Rex, That is good to know. I have the same tires and wheels that
you do. I got a good deal on an extra set of wheels from another list Member.
The buffed down atv tires were a "Bonus". he shipped the wheels to me with
the tires on them. They have tubes in them by the way.
> Tom Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73501#73501
Message 3
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Noel sez.
I just checked the Sigtronics site and realized the SPO intercom has a
transmit switch for both the pilot and the co-pilot. Usually the co-pilot
won't have a PTT switch unless the plane is used for training purposes.
under normal circumstances there is no need for a passenger to operate the
radio. the Intercom for both the pilot and passenger is operated by VOX.
I agree with this statement - almost, but I have found several instances
where the passenger PTT was very useful. The most recent was when I was
flying the videotaping trip under the SFO Class B and a friend was manning
the radios as I was manning the video and stick. Other times when in a
flight of several, the passenger was able to talk on the air to air
frequency which is a great touch. Frankly, I think it is a good idea to
carefully evaluate every component in the airplane as to its potential
utility as it is tons easier to add something in the building phase than in
the retrofit stage and impossible to add it in the air.
Lowell
Message 4
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| Subject: | FAA aircraft chart for download |
To all readers,
The attached FAA charts in .jpeg format, showing what aircraft sportpilots may
operate under their .pilot pilot privileges is being provided here.
Please comment on accuracy and the ramification of this information in a professional
manner, leaving out personal insults and childish taunts.
Do not break the thread. Post replies to this topic only, dont start a new thread
to express your view. This will avoid the clutter on the main page and keep
the conversation very selectable and isolated. Dont treat the boardlist like
a Instant Message service, reply at the last post in the original topic and
maintain continuity.
Talk among yourselves, I will not get involved.
Steve
--------
Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!)
New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to the late
great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73513#73513
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fed_register_chart_2_297.jpg
Message 5
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I have the SP0 22 N in My Kitfox and it just plug and play.
http://www.sigtronics.com/air/pdf/trcm2.pdf
One of the best intercom boxes you will find for 2 strokes. Little noise if
any .
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: PTT switch
>
>
> Noel sez.
> I just checked the Sigtronics site and realized the SPO intercom has a
> transmit switch for both the pilot and the co-pilot. Usually the co-pilot
> won't have a PTT switch unless the plane is used for training purposes.
> under normal circumstances there is no need for a passenger to operate the
> radio. the Intercom for both the pilot and passenger is operated by VOX.
>
> I agree with this statement - almost, but I have found several instances
> where the passenger PTT was very useful. The most recent was when I was
> flying the videotaping trip under the SFO Class B and a friend was manning
> the radios as I was manning the video and stick. Other times when in a
> flight of several, the passenger was able to talk on the air to air
> frequency which is a great touch. Frankly, I think it is a good idea to
> carefully evaluate every component in the airplane as to its potential
> utility as it is tons easier to add something in the building phase than
> in the retrofit stage and impossible to add it in the air.
>
> Lowell
>
>
>
Message 6
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Frankly, I think it is a good idea to carefully evaluate every component in the
airplane as to its potential utility as it is tons easier to add something in
the building phase than in the retrofit stage and impossible to add it in the
air.
Lowell
Lowell makes a good point about redundant PTT switch. I had pilot's PTT develop
a bad ground, failing at a critical moment. Fortunately, I was able to reach
over and use passenger's. I was glad it was there.
do not archive
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: FAA aircraft chart for download |
We don't have sport pilot here,
So, I have to ask what does =A7 1.1 say?
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: 84KF
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: FAA aircraft chart for download
To all readers,
The attached FAA charts in .jpeg format, showing what aircraft
sportpilots may operate under their .pilot pilot privileges is being
provided here.
Please comment on accuracy and the ramification of this
information in a professional manner, leaving out personal insults and
childish taunts.
Do not break the thread. Post replies to this topic only, don?Tt
start a new thread to express your view. This will avoid the clutter on
the main page and keep the conversation very selectable and isolated.
Don?Tt treat the boardlist like a Instant Message service, reply at
the last post in the original topic and maintain continuity.
Talk among yourselves, I will not get involved.
Steve
--------
Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!)
New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to
the late great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73513#73513
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fed_register_chart_2_297.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 or 912S decision |
List,
Looking for opinions on the suitability of a 912 on a Classic 4 at higher
elevations. I live at 6200 feet in Colorado Springs and need to make a
decision to go with a 912 or 912S. I already have the FWF kit, so my
choice is between these two options. If I have to buy new, a 912S is my
hands down choice. I have a lead on an older but never run 912 that may
save me a few thousand dollars. The money situation is tight, so if I'll
still get good performance at gross weight, I may go that route. If
those of you who have flown with a 912 at 10-12000 MSL think it is
underpowered, I'd rather know that upfront and continue to save for a
912S. Also, anybody have any experience with costs to have an older 912
checked out and all service bulletins complied with? Thanks,
Brent Bidus
Classic 4
Colorado Springs
Message 9
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| Subject: | Bluetooth GPS Receiver |
I was at an EAA chapter meeting the other day and a guy had a Holux 240
GPS Bluetooth receiver. It is a bit bigger than one of those pink erasers
we used in public school..sort of like a pack of Juicy Fruit gum. It
connected via a wireless bluetooth to his Pearl Blackberry device...and he
now has a moving map GPS system. Not the greatest for aviation, as the
maps that come with the Pearl are more for general use....but still...for
$ 150 CDN for the GPS receiver it was pretty impressive.
Anyone seen aviation specific GPS software for Blackberry devices. I have
the 8700R, and the keyboard and display are great. It works fine with
this device too but it does not have the maps loaded on the handheld.
Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 10
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I run an IVO Medium on my 912S powered KF IV. If you want to get an idea
of performance off the water...check out this google video showing a
landing/takeoff sequence. I have the prop pitched for 100 MPH cruise...and
I did not yank or flap it off the water. I can get off much quicker than
this if I put my mind to it.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8050884520231071945&q=kitfox
Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
"Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
11/09/2006 08:47 AM
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IvoProp Numbers
Got the figures. thanks
They are well ahead of what I'm getting around the same weight on Aerocet
straight floats. I actually haven't done any measurements on take off
distance but the times are around 8 to 10 seconds.
My climb out is initially around 1000fpm @ 6800rpm.
I cruise at around 6000 to 6200 rpm and the ASI reads around 75 mph GPS
readings average out to around 100mph.
I also changed from a GSC 68" prop to an Ivo in flight adjustable. I
found
the performance to be improved but the biggest change is the Ivo is lot
smoother. In fine pitch ( take off ) the Ivo doesn't ingest as much water
as the GSC there fore doesn't have the same problems with water pitting.
One thing that boosted my overall performance was the installation of a
Tiny
Tach. The original Kitfox tach was so far out to lunch I doubt it will
ever
come back. I'm considering removing it.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Torgeir Mortensen
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:09 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IvoProp Numbers
>
>
> <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Well Noel,
>
> > Are we missing something here???
> > Do not archive
>
>
> > Noel
>
>
>
> You'll have to click this link, to get the numbers.
>
> IMHO., the numbers could be printed here
>
>
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73129#73129
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Treaded Tyres |
Not a big fan of the treaded tires. You can get a stone in the tread, and
if it comes loose with the tire rotating it can fire it right through the
wing. Not an issue of course if you have wheel pants. I prefer the bald
tires for that reason. I run the Kingfox ones from the powered parachute
guys. They seemed to work well.
Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Quoting Text On The Forum... |
At 09:28 AM 11/9/2006 Thursday, you wrote:
>To Matt and the Kitfox List.
>Too just add a little bit to this. One of the downsides of using the forum
>feature is that the message that is being replied to isn't automatically
>appended to the outgoing message. Therefore, often when we receive a post
>here on the List there's a message, but it often makes no sense because we
>can't tell what is being replied to. The subject line gives a clue, but
>often that is many posts old. I'll pass this on to Matt.
>Deke Morisse
>Kitfox List Administrator
>
Deke and Kitfox Listers,
I admit that it isn't exactly intuitive, but on the Forum site to quote a message,
you click on the button that says "quote" in the upper right hand corner of
each message; this will quote a copy of the message in your reply. If you just
click on the button at the very bottom of a thread that says "Reply", it doesn't
quote any of the message. This is because you probably don't really want
to quote the entire thread in your message. Maybe, but I'm gonna say you don't.
:-)
Here is a sample screen from the Forum. Note the "quote" button by each message,
and the "Reply" button at the bottom.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Emacs!
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Bluetooth GPS Receiver |
Try PocketFMS. It's free and works good. I use it
on an iPaq and Delorme Bluelogger Bluetooth GPS.
http://www.pocketfms.com/
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Bluetooth GPS Receiver
>I was at an EAA chapter meeting the other day and a
guy had a Holux 240
>GPS Bluetooth receiver. It is a bit bigger than one
of those pink erasers
>we used in public school..sort of like a pack of
Juicy Fruit gum. It
>connected via a wireless bluetooth to his Pearl
Blackberry device...and he
>now has a moving map GPS system. Not the greatest
for aviation, as the
>maps that come with the Pearl are more for general
use....but still...for
>$ 150 CDN for the GPS receiver it was pretty
impressive.
>
>Anyone seen aviation specific GPS software for
Blackberry devices. I have
>the 8700R, and the keyboard and display are great.
It works fine with
>this device too but it does not have the maps loaded
on the handheld.
>
>Gary Walsh
>KF IV Anphib 912S
>C-GOOT
>www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
>
>do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Bluetooth GPS Receiver |
On Nov 10, 2006, at 6:27 PM, kitfoxjunky wrote:
> Anyone seen aviation specific GPS software for Blackberry devices.
I have no idea what a Blackberry device is but if you have a Bluetooth
GPS and a Bluetooth PDA running Microsoft Windows Mobile 2003 or 5,
PocketFMS is a very good choice. I have used it for the past one and
half year and I am delighted. The price? It's donationware, you pay $
60 only if you want. See:
http://www.pocketfms.com
Cheers,
Michel
PS: I have a PDA with GPS incorporated, it's even easier. A cheap one
is the Mio 168.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision |
Brent,
I owned a model III with the 912 (80 hp). It had the model IV wing and a bunch
of the other upgrades and mods that are standard on the IV. I considered it
to be comparable to the IV and it had the 1200 lb. gross. I flew it out of Salt
Lake City, Utah (4300' msl) and much of my flying was done in the Idaho backcountry
with a number of landings at Fish Lake strip (around 6200' as I recall).
I would routinely cruise at 9000' to 11000' msl when enroute. When I went
into Fish lake we had me and my brother and around 1/2 fuel which was around
around 1100 lb. total weight. I didn't have a problem getting in or out and
the approach and departure is over a lake with notoriously strong downdrafts.
On that departure, I could definately feel the effects of the downdrafts but
the Kitfox gets off so quickly that I was alread 200'-300' agl over the lake...my
climb rate was 400 fpm. All this being said, I sold the Model III because
I wanted better performance at the elevations I fly from. Although the 912 will
fly the IV and do it just fine, I would say it will not have the performance
you will want in the highlands of Colorado. I would go with the 912S without
a question. Spend the extra couple of grand and go with the 912S otherwise
you will be unhappy.
Just for the record...as I said, I sold the Model III so I could have better performance
at high elevations in the mountains...well, I am currently building
a Series 7 that will get the 914 turbo and an Airmaster electric CS prop...nothing
like producing full rated power regardless of conditions and the field elevation
:D She should climb like a homesick angel!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73540#73540
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision |
Brent,
Our flying group has been in and out of Smiley Creek in Idaho elev - 7160 a
number of times. Once one of the guys was in a IV powered by a 582. We did
fine, but always departed in the AM for obvious reasons. Only one of us had
the 912S and he was in a Rans S-6. Most of the morning flying
recommendations in the mountains has to do with turbulence, but density
altitude is certainly a factor.
I remember the days when I flew a C-170 and I would put it in Max climb
heading east from CCR and would have the altitude to get over the Sierras
just as I needed it - from sea level to about 11,000 ft. in about a hundred
miles in just over an hour. I can do the same from Cameron park easily in a
more moderate climb - from 1300 ft the same 11,000 ft. in 30 minutes. The
Model IV with either of the Rotax 912 series engines is a real performer.
Money no object - go with the 912S, otherwise the UL is what I have and have
felt no need for change.
Incidentally, on our air camping trips we are all close to max gross - camp
chair, tent, clothes for a week, you know the drill.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent E Bidus" <brentbidus@juno.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 9:24 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 or 912S decision
>
> List,
>
> Looking for opinions on the suitability of a 912 on a Classic 4 at higher
> elevations. I live at 6200 feet in Colorado Springs and need to make a
> decision to go with a 912 or 912S. I already have the FWF kit, so my
> choice is between these two options. If I have to buy new, a 912S is my
> hands down choice. I have a lead on an older but never run 912 that may
> save me a few thousand dollars. The money situation is tight, so if I'll
> still get good performance at gross weight, I may go that route. If
> those of you who have flown with a 912 at 10-12000 MSL think it is
> underpowered, I'd rather know that upfront and continue to save for a
> 912S. Also, anybody have any experience with costs to have an older 912
> checked out and all service bulletins complied with? Thanks,
>
> Brent Bidus
> Classic 4
> Colorado Springs
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Left turning tendency - Off Topic! |
Hey, I thought we were supposed to stay on topic.
No political talk!
Randy ;-)
Do not archive
Message 18
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I got the Sigtronics Sport 200S (stereo...nice for CD playing) intercom
which is a panel mount...I mounted mine vertically....and I love it. It
is mounted in the panel, with the jacks mounted in my console. It seems
like you'd have to find a place for the SPO-22N to lay and then you'd
have cables laying all over the place. In fact, my future plans are to
move the jacks for my intercom to behind the seat, so the headphone
cables will all be behind me...right now the cables sometimes get in
the way of flap application.
I have PTT switches in both sticks, and these came in very handy when
receiving instruction in my plane, in that the instructor could make
the radio calls when we went to a towered airport early on.
Lynn
On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 10:59 AM, dave wrote:
>
> I have the SP0 22 N in My Kitfox and it just plug and play.
>
> http://www.sigtronics.com/air/pdf/trcm2.pdf
>
> One of the best intercom boxes you will find for 2 strokes. Little
> noise if any .
>
>
> Dave
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision |
Just to hear the other side, I have a model 3 with the 912UL. I love it
and never wish for more power. I cruise between 100 and 105 (GPS). The m
ain advantage to me with the 80 horsepower over the 100 is the ability t
o use unleaded regular fuel. The 100 horsepower definately needs premium
or 100 LL. I plan to buy a model 7 in a year or two and am facing a tou
gh decision on engine choices. One of the mechanics for a leading Rotax
distributor told me this summer that if he were to build a Kitfox, he wo
uld definately go with the 80 horse because of less issues with them. Th
e 100 horse (S) has more concerns with abrupt start up and shut down plu
s less smoothness. It's a tough decision, but I think you'll be happy ei
ther way.
Rex in Michigan
-- "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Brent,
Our flying group has been in and out of Smiley Creek in Idaho elev - 716
0 a
number of times. Once one of the guys was in a IV powered by a 582. We
did
fine, but always departed in the AM for obvious reasons. Only one of us
had
the 912S and he was in a Rans S-6. Most of the morning flying
recommendations in the mountains has to do with turbulence, but density
altitude is certainly a factor.
I remember the days when I flew a C-170 and I would put it in Max climb
heading east from CCR and would have the altitude to get over the Sierra
s
just as I needed it - from sea level to about 11,000 ft. in about a hun
dred
miles in just over an hour. I can do the same from Cameron park easily
in a
more moderate climb - from 1300 ft the same 11,000 ft. in 30 minutes. Th
e
Model IV with either of the Rotax 912 series engines is a real performer
.
Money no object - go with the 912S, otherwise the UL is what I have and
have
felt no need for change.
Incidentally, on our air camping trips we are all close to max gross - c
amp
chair, tent, clothes for a week, you know the drill.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent E Bidus" <brentbidus@juno.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 9:24 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 or 912S decision
>
> List,
>
> Looking for opinions on the suitability of a 912 on a Classic 4 at hig
her
> elevations. I live at 6200 feet in Colorado Springs and need to make
a
> decision to go with a 912 or 912S. I already have the FWF kit, so my
> choice is between these two options. If I have to buy new, a 912S is
my
> hands down choice. I have a lead on an older but never run 912 that m
ay
> save me a few thousand dollars. The money situation is tight, so if I
'll
> still get good performance at gross weight, I may go that route. If
> those of you who have flown with a 912 at 10-12000 MSL think it is
> underpowered, I'd rather know that upfront and continue to save for a
> 912S. Also, anybody have any experience with costs to have an older 9
12
> checked out and all service bulletins complied with? Thanks,
>
> Brent Bidus
> Classic 4
> Colorado Springs
>
>
>
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P>Just to hear the other side, I have a model 3 with the 912UL. I
love it and never wish for more power. I cruise between 100 and 105 (GP
S). The main advantage to me with the 80 horsepower over the 1
00 is the ability to use unleaded regular fuel. The 100 horsepower defin
ately needs premium or 100 LL. I plan to buy a model 7 in a year or two
and am facing a tough decision on engine choices. One of the mechanics f
or a leading Rotax distributor told me this summer that if he were to bu
ild a Kitfox, he would definately go with the 80 horse because of less&n
bsp;issues with them. The 100 horse (S) has more concerns with abru
pt start up and shut down plus less smoothness. It's a tough decision, b
ut I think you'll be happy either way.</P>
<P>Rex in Michigan<BR><BR>-- "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbc
global.net> wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message
posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
;<BR><BR>Brent,<BR><BR>Our flying group has been&nbs
p;in and out of Smiley Creek in Idaho
elev - 7160 a <BR>number of times.&n
bsp; Once one of the guys was in 
;a IV powered by a 582. We did&
nbsp;<BR>fine, but always departed in the
AM for obvious reasons. Only one of&
nbsp;us had <BR>the 912S and he was i
n a Rans S-6. Most of the morni
ng flying <BR>recommendations in the mountains&
nbsp;has to do with turbulence, but densit
y <BR>altitude is certainly a factor.<BR><BR>I&
nbsp;remember the days when I flew a
C-170 and I would put it in Max
climb <BR>heading east from CCR and would&
nbsp;have the altitude to get over the&nbs
p;Sierras <BR>just as I needed it - f
rom sea level to about 11,000 ft. in&
nbsp;about a hundred <BR>miles in just&nb
sp;over an hour. I can do the s
ame from Cameron park easily in a <BR
>more moderate climb - from 1300 ft t
he same 11,000 ft. in 30 minutes. The
<BR>Model IV with either of the Rota
x 912 series engines is a real perfor
mer. <BR>Money no object - go with th
e 912S, otherwise the UL is what I&nb
sp;have and have <BR>felt no need for 
;change.<BR><BR>Incidentally, on our air camping&nbs
p;trips we are all close to max gross
- camp <BR>chair, tent, clothes for
a week, you know the drill.<BR><BR>Lowell<BR>--
--- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Brent&nbs
p;E Bidus" <brentbidus@juno.com><BR>To: <kitfox-
list@matronics.com><BR>Sent: Friday, November 10, 
;2006 9:24 AM<BR>Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 91
2 or 912S decision<BR><BR><BR>> --> Kitfo
x-List message posted by: Brent E Bidus&nb
sp;<brentbidus@juno.com><BR>><BR>> List,<BR>><BR>>
; Looking for opinions on the suitability&
nbsp;of a 912 on a Classic 4 at
higher<BR>> elevations. I live at 6200
feet in Colorado Springs and need to
make a<BR>> decision to go with a
912 or 912S. I already have th
e FWF kit, so my<BR>> choice is be
tween these two options. If I have&n
bsp;to buy new, a 912S is my<BR>>
hands down choice. I have a lead&nbs
p;on an older but never run 912 that&
nbsp;may<BR>> save me a few thousand do
llars. The money situation is tight, 
;so if I'll<BR>> still get good perform
ance at gross weight, I may go that&n
bsp;route. If<BR>> those of you who&nb
sp;have flown with a 912 at 10-12000
MSL think it is<BR>> underpowered, I'd
rather know that upfront and continue to&n
bsp;save for a<BR>> 912S. Also, anybod
y have any experience with costs to h
ave an older 912<BR>> checked out and&n
bsp;all service bulletins complied with?
Thanks,<BR>><BR>> Brent Bidus<BR>> Classic
4<BR>> Colorado Springs<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>&nbs
========================
sp; -- Please Support
nbsp; (And Get Some&n
vember is the Annual List Fund Raiser.&nbs
= this year's Terrific Free Incen
p; * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com<
bsp; &n
bsp; &n
========================
========================
- The Kitfox-List Email Foru
ist utilities such as the Subscriptions pa
========================
========================
====<BR></P>
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</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision |
Brent,
At 6200=B4 you have about 79 % power left, so an 912S will be 79 hp and
the 912 will be 63 hp. many have 65hp!
but more at about same weight is never wrong.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: Brent E Bidus
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 or 912S decision
List,
Looking for opinions on the suitability of a 912 on a Classic 4 at
higher
elevations. I live at 6200 feet in Colorado Springs and need to make
a
decision to go with a 912 or 912S. I already have the FWF kit, so my
choice is between these two options. If I have to buy new, a 912S is
my
hands down choice. I have a lead on an older but never run 912 that
may
save me a few thousand dollars. The money situation is tight, so if
I'll
still get good performance at gross weight, I may go that route. If
those of you who have flown with a 912 at 10-12000 MSL think it is
underpowered, I'd rather know that upfront and continue to save for a
912S. Also, anybody have any experience with costs to have an older
912
checked out and all service bulletins complied with? Thanks,
Brent Bidus
Classic 4
Colorado Springs
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision |
Brent,
Regarding performance of the 912 UL on a Classic 4 at altitude. My C4
has an empty weight of 640 lb.
Flying solo with about 2/3 fuel load I have recorded 500FPM climb at
12,000 Ft MSL.
Regarding buying a used engine, I bought a used engine with 250 hrs on
it and somewhat incomplete records for half the price of a new engine.
It has performed well, but there are times when I would like the peace
of mind that a new engine would have given. Another factor is that the
912 has gone through a continuous process of improvement. If you buy a
new engine you will have the advantage of having an engine with all the
latest improvements.
Dick
Brent E Bidus wrote:
>
>List,
>
>Looking for opinions on the suitability of a 912 on a Classic 4 at higher
>elevations. I live at 6200 feet in Colorado Springs and need to make a
>decision to go with a 912 or 912S. I already have the FWF kit, so my
>choice is between these two options. If I have to buy new, a 912S is my
>hands down choice. I have a lead on an older but never run 912 that may
>save me a few thousand dollars. The money situation is tight, so if I'll
>still get good performance at gross weight, I may go that route. If
>those of you who have flown with a 912 at 10-12000 MSL think it is
>underpowered, I'd rather know that upfront and continue to save for a
>912S. Also, anybody have any experience with costs to have an older 912
>checked out and all service bulletins complied with? Thanks,
>
>Brent Bidus
>Classic 4
>Colorado Springs
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Fire extinguisher Mount Location |
Where have some of you mounted a fire extinguisher. I want to mount one of the
small Halon type in my Classic 4.
Tom Jones
Ellensburg
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73561#73561
Message 23
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You got me there Lowell... But I did say "normal circumstances" :-)
Noel
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lowell Fitt
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 12:10 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: PTT switch
>
>
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
> Noel sez.
> I just checked the Sigtronics site and realized the SPO intercom has a
> transmit switch for both the pilot and the co-pilot. Usually
> the co-pilot
> won't have a PTT switch unless the plane is used for training
> purposes.
> under normal circumstances there is no need for a passenger
> to operate the
> radio. the Intercom for both the pilot and passenger is
> operated by VOX.
>
> I agree with this statement - almost, but I have found
> several instances
> where the passenger PTT was very useful. The most recent was
> when I was
> flying the videotaping trip under the SFO Class B and a
> friend was manning
> the radios as I was manning the video and stick. Other times
> when in a
> flight of several, the passenger was able to talk on the air to air
> frequency which is a great touch. Frankly, I think it is a
> good idea to
> carefully evaluate every component in the airplane as to its
> potential
> utility as it is tons easier to add something in the building
> phase than in
> the retrofit stage and impossible to add it in the air.
>
> Lowell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Left turning tendency |
I went through a series of adjustment for the same characteristic. while a trim
tab works I was not enthralled with the notion. The following is close as I remember
it 1) level fuselage-measure dihedral,check outboard wing incidence. 2)
after assessing the above make the necessary adjustment to "zero" everything
in rig left and right. If characteristic continues utilize a combination right
front/left rear and left front/right rear. When complete check washout, dihedral
etc. The front and rear adjustments are not orthogenal because of the geometry
but it is unlikely that you will see significant handly changes as you
approach the point of no pressure needed.
These light airplanes are load sensitive..while you are testing lean way to the
right, forward and back to experience attitude change.
John Kerr
725 hrs.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: JOHN May <jpm7940@sbcglobal.net>
I will do some testing but off hand I would say stick pressure increases with speed.
Assuming it is a rigging problem where do you suggest I start.
Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
At 06:29 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote:
>My Model IV-1200 speedster has a slight tendency to turn to the left which
>requires some right stick pressure.
How dependent is the stick pressure on speed? If highly dependent,
then you probably have a rigging problem. If not very dependent then you
probably have a mass / CG problem.
===========================================================
<html><body>
<DIV>I went through a series of adjustment for the same characteristic. while a
trim tab works I was not enthralled with the notion. The following is close as
I remember it 1) level fuselage-measure dihedral,check outboard wing incidence.
2) after assessing the above make the necessary adjustment to "zero" everything
in rig left and right. If characteristic continues utilize a combination
right front/left rear and left front/right rear. When complete check washout,
dihedral etc. The front and rear adjustments are not orthogenal because
of the geometry but it is unlikely that you will see significant handly changes
as you approach the point of no pressure needed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>These light airplanes are load sensitive..while you are testing lean way to
the right, forward and back to experience attitude change.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>725 hrs.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: JOHN May <jpm7940@sbcglobal.net>
<BR>I will do some testing but off hand I would say
stick pressure increases with speed. Assuming it is a rigging problem where
do you suggest I start.<BR><BR><B><I>Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com></I></B>
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#1010ff 2px solid">--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <BNN@NETHERE.COM><BR><BR>At
06:29 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote:<BR>>My Model IV-1200
speedster has a slight tendency to turn to the left which <BR>>requires some
right stick pressure.<BR><BR><BR>How dependent is the stick pressure on speed?
If highly dependent, <BR>then you probably have a rigging problem. If not very
dependent then you <BR>probably have a mass / CG problem.<BR><BR><BR> <BR>============================================================<BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE><B><FONT
face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location |
I mounted mine on the center console...just in front of the flap handle.
Lynn
On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 04:00 PM, Tom Jones wrote:
>
> Where have some of you mounted a fire extinguisher. I want to mount
> one of the small Halon type in my Classic 4.
> Tom Jones
> Ellensburg
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73561#73561
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision |
Have had great success with my 80 hp rotax on Classic IV. My home field, Logan
UT is 4450 but do a lot of high and hot flying, including Idaho back country
with no concerns. Sure the 100 would be great but I would probably opt for the
$$$$ and 80 hp.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Brent E Bidus <brentbidus@juno.com>
>
> List,
>
> Looking for opinions on the suitability of a 912 on a Classic 4 at higher
> elevations. I live at 6200 feet in Colorado Springs and need to make a
> decision to go with a 912 or 912S. I already have the FWF kit, so my
> choice is between these two options. If I have to buy new, a 912S is my
> hands down choice. I have a lead on an older but never run 912 that may
> save me a few thousand dollars. The money situation is tight, so if I'll
> still get good performance at gross weight, I may go that route. If
> those of you who have flown with a 912 at 10-12000 MSL think it is
> underpowered, I'd rather know that upfront and continue to save for a
> 912S. Also, anybody have any experience with costs to have an older 912
> checked out and all service bulletins complied with? Thanks,
>
> Brent Bidus
> Classic 4
> Colorado Springs
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Have had great success with my 80 hp rotax on Classic IV. My home field,
Logan UT is 4450 but do a lot of high and hot flying, including Idaho back
country with no concerns. Sure the 100 would be great but I would probably opt
for the $$$$ and 80 hp.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Brent E Bidus
<brentbidus@juno.com> <BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Brent E Bidus <BRENTBIDUS@JUNO.COM><BR>> <BR>> List, <BR>> <BR>>
Looking for opinions on the suitability of a 912 on a Classic 4 at higher <BR>>
elevations. I live at 6200 feet in Colorado Springs and need to make a
<BR>> decision to go with a 912 or 912S. I already have the FWF kit, so my
<BR>> choice is between these two options. If I have to buy new, a 912S is
my <BR>> hands down choice. I have a lead on an older but never run 912 that
may <BR>> save me a few thousand dollars. The money situation is tight, so
if I'll <BR>> still get good performance at gross weight, I may go that route.
If <BR>> those of you who have flown with a 912 at 10-12000 MSL think
it is <BR>> underpowered, I'd rather know that up
front
.com/c
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location |
I mounted mine on the floor up against and parallel to the left side of the
fuselage using the quick-release bracket that came with the unit. Easy to
reach with pilot's left hand or from outside when on the ground.
Roger
----- Original Message -----
>
> Where have some of you mounted a fire extinguisher. I want to mount one of
> the small Halon type in my Classic 4.
> Tom Jones
> Ellensburg
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73561#73561
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location |
Mine is mounted like Lynn's: just in front of the flap handle.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73588#73588
Message 29
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| Subject: | Tires slipping on rims |
Rex's comment about the green slim sealant reminded me of this one.
A local A&P puts tires on with epoxy glue to glue the tires to the rim. You
can run low air pressure in the tires with little worry about them slipping
on the rim and cutting off the valve stem on the inner tube.
It sounded strange to me at first, but it does make sense. The epoxy works
great in shear strength, but with little tensile strength to the rubber, the
tires easily come off when you want them too.
Randy
.
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Buffed down tyres
Rex,
I have an extra set of tires that are the smooth buffed atv tires. I was
planing
on using them on my classic 4 when my lawn tractor tires wear out. What was
"shocking" about yours?
Tom Jones
Ellensburg, WA
Tom,
the buffed down tyres were only two ply and they only had to see a
grass field and they went flat. My Lawn tractor tyres are 4 ply. I couldn't
find tubes for the buffed down tyres and that didn't help. I have 8" steel
rims with brake disk lugs welded on the back. This causes slight distortion
on the inside and leads to poor sealing without tubes. The buffed down tyres
were squirmy at 9-10 lb pressure at times but too tight at higher pressure.
I think my slightly smaller Lawn tyres handle excellent at 18 PSI. I used
green slime sealant in the buffed down tyres only to find it started
attacking the rims. All in all I don't want to see them again. I couldn't
put them in the bin fast enough.
Rex.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Rough Running 912 UL |
Jay I did this to my self by putting a longer tube on the carb vents.
What do your vent tubes look like?
Paul N102DG
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Fabian
To: kitfox list
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:02 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL
Hi List,
I have a 912 UL with 145 tthours. It had a rough spot at about
3000-3200 rpms on the ground or in the air.
I have checked and regapped the plugs to .028,
cleaned out the bowls on the carbs,
cleaned off the neddle and dome area, sanded the ground wire lugs for
the coils to get a good ground.
Checked the carb Ballance -its ok.
It all has not helped at all, even makes the rough ness worse some
times. Going from 2k rpms- 3k rpms it is almost like it is bogging down,
and you have to sort of pump the throttle to get the rpms past the 3-3.2
k mark.
Doing the mag check it is very rough on each side also, and I am using
gas with the 10 % methanol( exact amount unknown )
My qquestion is any ideas on the cause, there was no visible dirt or
matter in the bowls either?????
I am going to try and put in new plugs and then try some AV gas
instead.
Let me know what you think
Thanks
Jay
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Tires slipping on rims |
Maybe I'm lucky or just stupid, but I'm running without tubes in my
tires. I have the early Douglas one-piece (welded aluminum) rims, with
Cheng Shin tires, and they are a beast to install or remove. I have one
tire that loses about 4 pounds pressure in about a month's time, so I
keep an eye on that, otherwise no problems so far. I do mostly grass
runways, but if I go to a paved airport, I don't worry about it. I'd
say it's probably a 60-40% mix of the two. Probably my 3-point landings
keeps me slow enough to avoid the dreaded rim slipping.
Lynn
On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 06:42 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
> Rexs comment about the green slim sealant reminded me of this one.
>
>
>
> A local A&P puts tires on with epoxy glue to glue the tires to the
> rim. You can run low air pressure in the tires with little worry
> about them slipping on the rim and cutting off the valve stem on the
> inner tube.
>
>
>
> It sounded strange to me at first, but it does make sense. The epoxy
> works great in shear strength, but with little tensile strength to the
> rubber, the tires easily come off when you want them too.
>
>
>
> Randy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> From:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf OfRex Shaw
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:20 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Buffed down tyres
>
>
>
> Rex,
> I have an extra set of tires that are the smooth buffed atv tires. I
> was planing
> on using them on my classic 4 when my lawn tractor tires wear out.
> What was
> "shocking" about yours?
> Tom Jones
> Ellensburg, WA
>
> Tom,
>
> the buffed down tyres were only two ply and they only had to
> see a grass field and they went flat. My Lawn tractor tyres are 4
> ply. I couldn't find tubes for the buffed down tyres and that didn't
> help. I have 8" steel rims with brake disk lugs welded on the back.
> This causes slight distortion on the inside and leads to poor sealing
> without tubes. The buffed down tyres were squirmy at 9-10 lb pressure
> at times but too tight at higher pressure. I think my slightly smaller
> Lawn tyres handle excellent at 18 PSI. I used green slime sealant in
> the buffed down tyres only to find it started attacking the rims. All
> in all I don't want to see them again. I couldn't put them in the bin
> fast enough.
>
>
>
>
> Rex.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.com
>
> www.kitlog.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 or 912S decision |
I guess I am the only one who likes power. I look at it this way, with the 912S,
or the 914 for that matter, you can always throttle back and use the 80 horses,
but when you need it, it is very nice to have that little extra push. Sure,
you can make do with the 80 horse and your performance will not be bad, mine
wasn't in the Model III, but that is all you have and for me it wasn't enough.
As for the lister earlier in the thread with the model III, I never saw anything
over 100 mph ground speed unless I had a 20 mph tailwind. Granted my Model
III was about 50 - 100 lbs heavier than most model III's and that may be the difference
but with the Vne of 100 mph I wouldn't feel too comfortable with a 105
mph groundspeed, unless that is due to a tailwind. My typical cruise was around
75 - 80 mph IAS at 5000 rpm and I had almost every speed mod made.
I am not badmouthing the 80 hp 912, it is an awesome engine and I had no problems
with mine...I am simply saying it is easier to pull out power than to add ponies
and there were times I would have loved to have the extra power.
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (getting a 914)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73617#73617
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Tires slipping on rims |
Does the green slime affect aluminum rims or just steel.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Tires slipping on rims |
Two of here in the Austin, Texas area are using the exact same tire as Lynn.
We have about 600 hours between the two of us and have never had a probem.
lMost of our flying is on paved runways. We use 14 lbs prssure.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tires slipping on rims
>
> Maybe I'm lucky or just stupid, but I'm running without tubes in my
> tires. I have the early Douglas one-piece (welded aluminum) rims, with
> Cheng Shin tires, and they are a beast to install or remove. I have one
> tire that loses about 4 pounds pressure in about a month's time, so I
> keep an eye on that, otherwise no problems so far. I do mostly grass
> runways, but if I go to a paved airport, I don't worry about it. I'd say
> it's probably a 60-40% mix of the two. Probably my 3-point landings keeps
> me slow enough to avoid the dreaded rim slipping.
>
> Lynn
> On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 06:42 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
>
>> Rexs comment about the green slim sealant reminded me of this one.
>>
>>
>> A local A&P puts tires on with epoxy glue to glue the tires to the rim.
>> You can run low air pressure in the tires with little worry about them
>> slipping on the rim and cutting off the valve stem on the inner tube.
>>
>>
>> It sounded strange to me at first, but it does make sense. The epoxy
>> works great in shear strength, but with little tensile strength to the
>> rubber, the tires easily come off when you want them too.
>>
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>>
> <image.tiff>
>>
>>
>> From:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf OfRex Shaw
>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:20 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Buffed down tyres
>>
>>
>> Rex,
>> I have an extra set of tires that are the smooth buffed atv tires. I was
>> planing
>> on using them on my classic 4 when my lawn tractor tires wear out. What
>> was
>> "shocking" about yours?
>> Tom Jones
>> Ellensburg, WA
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> the buffed down tyres were only two ply and they only had to see a grass
>> field and they went flat. My Lawn tractor tyres are 4 ply. I couldn't
>> find tubes for the buffed down tyres and that didn't help. I have 8"
>> steel rims with brake disk lugs welded on the back. This causes slight
>> distortion on the inside and leads to poor sealing without tubes. The
>> buffed down tyres were squirmy at 9-10 lb pressure at times but too
>> tight at higher pressure. I think my slightly smaller Lawn tyres handle
>> excellent at 18 PSI. I used green slime sealant in the buffed down tyres
>> only to find it started attacking the rims. All in all I don't want to
>> see them again. I couldn't put them in the bin fast enough.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rex.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> www.aeroelectric.com
>>
>> www.kitlog.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Tires slipping on rims |
I've been reading the mail on this one for a day or so now. I find it a bit
amazing that you guys are getting tire slippage on the rim. There are only
two ways that I can see of getting slippage; 1. the rims are extremely
heavy and when you touch down that causes the tires to slip on the rims.
Rims that heavy would be too heavy to fly. That brings me to the second
reason 2. There must be some pretty heavy braking going on. Especially with
low pressures on soft surfaces.
One of these days I'll try those funny round things, currently stored in the
back of my shop, on my plane. In the meantime do not archive the fact I
like floats!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Jimmie Blackwell
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 10:26 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tires slipping on rims
>
>
> <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com>
>
> Two of here in the Austin, Texas area are using the exact
> same tire as Lynn.
> We have about 600 hours between the two of us and have never
> had a probem.
> lMost of our flying is on paved runways. We use 14 lbs prssure.
>
> Jimmie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tires slipping on rims
>
>
> >
> > Maybe I'm lucky or just stupid, but I'm running without tubes in my
> > tires. I have the early Douglas one-piece (welded aluminum)
> rims, with
> > Cheng Shin tires, and they are a beast to install or
> remove. I have one
> > tire that loses about 4 pounds pressure in about a month's
> time, so I
> > keep an eye on that, otherwise no problems so far. I do
> mostly grass
> > runways, but if I go to a paved airport, I don't worry
> about it. I'd say
> > it's probably a 60-40% mix of the two. Probably my 3-point
> landings keeps
> > me slow enough to avoid the dreaded rim slipping.
> >
> > Lynn
> > On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 06:42 PM, Randy
> Daughenbaugh wrote:
> >
> >> Rex's comment about the green slim sealant reminded me of this one.
> >>
> >>
> >> A local A&P puts tires on with epoxy glue to glue the
> tires to the rim.
> >> You can run low air pressure in the tires with little
> worry about them
> >> slipping on the rim and cutting off the valve stem on the
> inner tube.
> >>
> >>
> >> It sounded strange to me at first, but it does make sense.
> The epoxy
> >> works great in shear strength, but with little tensile
> strength to the
> >> rubber, the tires easily come off when you want them too.
> >>
> >>
> >> Randy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> .
> >>
> > <image.tiff>
> >>
> >>
> >> From:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> OfRex Shaw
> >> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:20 PM
> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Buffed down tyres
> >>
> >>
> >> Rex,
> >> I have an extra set of tires that are the smooth buffed
> atv tires. I was
> >> planing
> >> on using them on my classic 4 when my lawn tractor tires
> wear out. What
> >> was
> >> "shocking" about yours?
> >> Tom Jones
> >> Ellensburg, WA
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> the buffed down tyres were only two ply and they only had
> to see a grass
> >> field and they went flat. My Lawn tractor tyres are 4
> ply. I couldn't
> >> find tubes for the buffed down tyres and that didn't
> help. I have 8"
> >> steel rims with brake disk lugs welded on the back. This
> causes slight
> >> distortion on the inside and leads to poor sealing
> without tubes. The
> >> buffed down tyres were squirmy at 9-10 lb pressure at
> times but too
> >> tight at higher pressure. I think my slightly smaller
> Lawn tyres handle
> >> excellent at 18 PSI. I used green slime sealant in the
> buffed down tyres
> >> only to find it started attacking the rims. All in all I
> don't want to
> >> see them again. I couldn't put them in the bin fast enough.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rex.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> www.aeroelectric.com
> >>
> >> www.kitlog.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox CFI is Moving... |
Andrew,
Do you instruct in your kitfox? Mine is still in phase 1.
Tom Jones
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73624#73624
Message 37
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| Subject: | Rough Running 912 UL Fixed! |
Hi List,
Well I think it is fixed. I only tried one thing at a time to narrow
down the results and the culprit. Someone sugested moving the c-clip
down a notch to enrichen the carbs as it might be starving in the middle
range. I did it to both by moving the clip to the 3rd groove. I wanted
to make sure I was not going to make it too lean so I ran the plane for
a half hour at diff speeds.
The EGTS only got up to 1,250 deg F at 4200 RPMS for about 5 min. CHTS
stayed at 180 deg F. 63 deg F OAT.
It ran so much Smoother on start up and it was like glass trough all rpm
ranges, even quick trottle adjustments up and down.It was great! I only
did the clips , and have not changed the plugs yet so It seems to be the
clip adjustment that helped.
Question is I have NEVER Had to move it before in summer or dead of
winter, So WHY now??????
I did also do the methanol test of my gas with the water and it tested
out to have 10% methanol in it! Maybe that is the reason why I now
needed to adjust it as there was not that much over the summer?
I will report back with the test fight next week hopfully.
Thanks to all that helped,
Jay Fabian
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Fabian
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL
Ok, So far I cleaned out the top diafram area with carb cleaner, and
the needle had a slight dark ring of residue on it on both pins.
Diaphrams are fine, and back in place
Inlet tubes look fine,
Carb sockets have about 20 hours on them, and are clamped correctly,
One thing I noticed when taking off the top cover of the carbs there
is a dark silver / oil looking residue on the two parts that hold the
big spring in place. I did not know if it is oil for the spring or just
the aluminum rubbing off from the spring. I left it as is for now. Test
ran it and the same issues are happenning.
I ran out of light so I will try the plugs, and the teflon seat and
valves for wear as per the maitenance book.
I know of people that change the jets 2 X per year depending on temps,
but since I built it I have not had to change them at all. The egts have
been great and only fluctuate very little all year round 90deg- 20 deg
F.
Where is the middle range system located? Is that up behind the float
valves?
I hope to get over there Thursday sometime.
Thanks
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: JC Propellerdesign
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL
To me it sounds (without hearing the engine) that it get to little
fuel at that rpm range, can also be to rich.
Idle adjustment?
carb diaphragm?
Leaking inlet tubes?
dirt in the middle range system?
Jan Carlsson
jcpropellerdesign.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Fabian
To: kitfox list
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 5:02 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL
Hi List,
I have a 912 UL with 145 tthours. It had a rough spot at about
3000-3200 rpms on the ground or in the air.
I have checked and regapped the plugs to .028,
cleaned out the bowls on the carbs,
cleaned off the neddle and dome area, sanded the ground wire lugs
for the coils to get a good ground.
Checked the carb Ballance -its ok.
It all has not helped at all, even makes the rough ness worse some
times. Going from 2k rpms- 3k rpms it is almost like it is bogging down,
and you have to sort of pump the throttle to get the rpms past the 3-3.2
k mark.
Doing the mag check it is very rough on each side also, and I am
using gas with the 10 % methanol( exact amount unknown )
My qquestion is any ideas on the cause, there was no visible dirt
or matter in the bowls either?????
I am going to try and put in new plugs and then try some AV gas
instead.
Let me know what you think
Thanks
Jay
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 11/7/2006
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/7/2006
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location |
At 01:00 PM 11/10/2006, you wrote:
>Where have some of you mounted a fire extinguisher.
Mine's sideways in front of the pilot's stick, mounted to the floorboard.
It seemed the most out-of-the-way, yet handiest, spot.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Left turning tendency |
At 11:25 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote:
>I will do some testing but off hand I would say stick pressure increases
>with speed. Assuming it is a rigging problem where do you suggest I start.
I can think of two things causing aerodynamic roll resulting in
stick pressure. One is wing twist, which you've already investigated. The
other is flying sideways. (Now before you scoff at the latter, be advised
that my Kitfox flies sideways quite nicely.) For the former I would
carefully check the wings on the ground by levelling the aircraft
athwartships, and then use a jigged level to measure the angle of incidence
at the root, strut attach point, and at the tip of my wings. Because of
dihedral you will have to be very careful that the level is parallel to
centerline while making these measurements. It's even easier if you can
come up with a laser level.
As to flying sideways I'd first measure from the wing tips to the
rudder post to make sure one wing isn't leading. Then I'd level the
fuselage athwartships and check, using a water or laser level, that the
dihedral is identical both sides. (Also check that the empennage is
vertical / horizontal. If the HS is not level, then HS forces will
translate into lateral movement of the tail.) While levelled I would then
check the ball to make sure it's centered. (I did the first half of my PP
training in a 152 with a TC one ball off center; drove my instructor crazy,
as she thought it was me.) Finally you must check to see that the engine is
pointed in the right direction. Personally I think the engine should be on
centerline, but others may correct me. (I vaguely remember running model
airplane engines angled off to correct "torque".) I would check this by
first measuring from the prop hub centerline to a reference on either side.
The hard part is then to pick a similar reference point on the back of the
engine, either something you know is on centerline, or two points you know
are equal distance from centerline. (Engine mounts are often centerline
symmetric.) The error front and rear should be the same. (It matters less
if the engine is off centerline than if it is pointed right or left of center.)
These measurements shouldn't take very long and will give you some
comfort that your plane is rigged correctly. I tried to think of a quick,
trick, way of doing this via airborne testing, but couldn't come up with
anything definitive that would segregate the possible cause.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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