Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:17 AM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL Fixed! (Dave and Diane)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: Tires slipping on rims (Lynn Matteson)
3. 07:26 AM - Re: Rough Running 912 UL Fixed! (Fox5flyer)
4. 10:27 AM - Powerfin 69" 3-blade prop (Ron Carroll)
5. 12:20 PM - [ Steven M. Magdic ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
6. 12:23 PM - [ Steven M. Magdic ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
7. 12:32 PM - [ Alessandro Tonini - GT Propellers ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
8. 12:45 PM - Trailer. (QSS)
9. 03:30 PM - Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location (Tom Jones)
10. 04:32 PM - Re: Tires slipping on rims (Jimmie Blackwell)
11. 04:56 PM - PTT (DeWayne Clifford)
12. 06:00 PM - Re: FAA aircraft chart for download (84KF)
13. 09:36 PM - Re: Tires slipping on rims (dwight purdy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rough Running 912 UL Fixed! |
Jay,
If you found that enrichning the mixture solved the problem, AND, you know
that you currently have 10% alcohol (methanol according to your test) fuel,
there is a theoretical and logical explanation as to why you now need to
enrichen the mixture now, but did not need to at some time in the past. The
reason I say "theoretical" is because we don't have an analysis of the fuel
you were using before the engine began running rough - that part may be a
guess at this point.
Consider the chemistry involved with burning gas versus alcohol.
I provided some if this information in an earlier post when we were discussing
corn gas on the list (ethanol added to gasoline). Alcohol has less energy per
gallon than gasoline. Ethanol has approximately 60% of the energy that
gasoline has - this means that if a person burns pure gasoline and compares
it to burning pure ethanol, it will work like this (disregarding the factors
of octane rating and a couple other minor things): If you get 20 nautical
miles per gallon on pure gas, you will get 12 nautical miles per gallon on
pure ethanol. - Again, this does not take into account a few other minor
factors, but it is ballpark for government work. Taking the logic a bit
further - this means you need to enrichen the mixture for ethanol so you can
now burn an additional 8 gallons in the same distance IF you are running 100%
ethanol compared to 100% gasoline. Actually, we do not burn 100% ethanol
(maybe in cars in Brazil), but the need to enrichen the mixture due to
additional of alcohol is exactly porportional to the amount of alcohol used
to dilute the gasoline. Gasoline with 10% ethanol has approximately 94% of
the energy as 100% gasoline - so the mixture needs to be enrichened to
account for the missing 6% energy content.
NOW - you mentioned that your current fuel was actually 10% methanol, not 10%
ethanol - if this is the case, methanol has LESS energy yet per gallon than
ethanol so the 10% dilution would cause a somewhat greater reduction in BTU
content than if the 10% was ethanol - not a lot, but some. This is due to the
shorter chain structure of methanol (less carbon, less haydrogen=less
energy).
Science trivia - Back during the first energy crisis in the US (the second
also + during the runup in gas prices this summer) there were all kinds of
snake oil guys coming out of the woodwork. Some claimed a 200 MPG carburetor
for a 6000# vehicle was buried in some sort of conspiracy between the
government and auto companies. This little crock of bull is easily debunked
since it takes a defined quantity of gasoline to do a defined amount of work
and there just isn't enough energy in a gallon of gas to push a 6000# vehicle
200 miles. I actually have seen a 200 MPG carburetor - it is on a very, very
tiny radio controlled car which can actually carry four passengers, provided
the passengers are four hummingbirds. My point of this is the big picture
(energy needed versus gallons burned) is subject to the laws of chemistry and
physics and these big picture items will sometimes provide us with answers to
the puzzling things we observe.
Aside from all this chemistry stuff - give yourself a pat on the back for
solving your original issue with the rough running; but keep your eyes and
ears working. The only other thing I will mention is this - if it actually is
not a difference in fuel, don't forget the possibility that some other
problem may have it's solution manifest through enrichment (such as a vacuum
leak, induction air temperature to name a few) Engine systems have several
factors which affect the ideal mixture for smooth running - sometimes one
change masks another issue. Or, you might have the problem solved and it
might be that simple.
Please conside that my experience has been more involved with auto
applications than aircraft engines. Some things transfer and some things
don't; But, basic chemistry and physics doesn't distinguish what vehicle an
engine is mounted on.
Sincerely,
Dave S
St Paul, MN
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Friday 10 November 2006 9:47 pm, Jay Fabian wrote:
> Hi List,
> Well I think it is fixed. I only tried one thing at a time to narrow down
> the results and the culprit. Someone sugested moving the c-clip down a
> notch to enrichen the carbs as it might be starving in the middle range. I
>
> Question is I have NEVER Had to move it before in summer or dead of
> winter, So WHY now??????
>
> I did also do the methanol test of my gas with the water and it tested out
> to have 10% methanol in it! Maybe that is the reason why I now needed to
> adjust it as there was not that much over the summer?
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tires slipping on rims |
Are you using tubes, Jimmie?
Lynn
On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 08:55 PM, Jimmie Blackwell wrote:
> <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com>
>
> Two of here in the Austin, Texas area are using the exact same tire as
> Lynn. We have about 600 hours between the two of us and have never had
> a probem. lMost of our flying is on paved runways. We use 14 lbs
> prssure.
>
> Jimmie
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tires slipping on rims
>
>
>>
>> Maybe I'm lucky or just stupid, but I'm running without tubes in my
>> tires. I have the early Douglas one-piece (welded aluminum) rims,
>> with Cheng Shin tires, and they are a beast to install or remove. I
>> have one tire that loses about 4 pounds pressure in about a month's
>> time, so I keep an eye on that, otherwise no problems so far. I do
>> mostly grass runways, but if I go to a paved airport, I don't worry
>> about it. I'd say it's probably a 60-40% mix of the two. Probably my
>> 3-point landings keeps me slow enough to avoid the dreaded rim
>> slipping.
>>
>> Lynn
>> On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 06:42 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
>>
>>> Rexs comment about the green slim sealant reminded me of this one.
>>>
>>>
>>> A local A&P puts tires on with epoxy glue to glue the tires to the
>>> rim. You can run low air pressure in the tires with little worry
>>> about them slipping on the rim and cutting off the valve stem on the
>>> inner tube.
>>>
>>>
>>> It sounded strange to me at first, but it does make sense. The epoxy
>>> works great in shear strength, but with little tensile strength to
>>> the rubber, the tires easily come off when you want them too.
>>>
>>>
>>> Randy
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rough Running 912 UL Fixed! |
Great primer Dave. Thanks.
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave and Diane" <ddsyverson@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rough Running 912 UL Fixed!
>
> Jay,
>
> If you found that enrichning the mixture solved the problem, AND, you know
> that you currently have 10% alcohol (methanol according to your test)
fuel,
> there is a theoretical and logical explanation as to why you now need to
> enrichen the mixture now, but did not need to at some time in the past.
The
> reason I say "theoretical" is because we don't have an analysis of the
fuel
> you were using before the engine began running rough - that part may be a
> guess at this point.
>
> Consider the chemistry involved with burning gas versus alcohol.
>
> I provided some if this information in an earlier post when we were
discussing
> corn gas on the list (ethanol added to gasoline). Alcohol has less energy
per
> gallon than gasoline. Ethanol has approximately 60% of the energy that
> gasoline has - this means that if a person burns pure gasoline and
compares
> it to burning pure ethanol, it will work like this (disregarding the
factors
> of octane rating and a couple other minor things): If you get 20 nautical
> miles per gallon on pure gas, you will get 12 nautical miles per gallon on
> pure ethanol. - Again, this does not take into account a few other minor
> factors, but it is ballpark for government work. Taking the logic a bit
> further - this means you need to enrichen the mixture for ethanol so you
can
> now burn an additional 8 gallons in the same distance IF you are running
100%
> ethanol compared to 100% gasoline. Actually, we do not burn 100% ethanol
> (maybe in cars in Brazil), but the need to enrichen the mixture due to
> additional of alcohol is exactly porportional to the amount of alcohol
used
> to dilute the gasoline. Gasoline with 10% ethanol has approximately 94% of
> the energy as 100% gasoline - so the mixture needs to be enrichened to
> account for the missing 6% energy content.
>
> NOW - you mentioned that your current fuel was actually 10% methanol, not
10%
> ethanol - if this is the case, methanol has LESS energy yet per gallon
than
> ethanol so the 10% dilution would cause a somewhat greater reduction in
BTU
> content than if the 10% was ethanol - not a lot, but some. This is due to
the
> shorter chain structure of methanol (less carbon, less haydrogen=less
> energy).
>
> Science trivia - Back during the first energy crisis in the US (the second
> also + during the runup in gas prices this summer) there were all kinds of
> snake oil guys coming out of the woodwork. Some claimed a 200 MPG
carburetor
> for a 6000# vehicle was buried in some sort of conspiracy between the
> government and auto companies. This little crock of bull is easily
debunked
> since it takes a defined quantity of gasoline to do a defined amount of
work
> and there just isn't enough energy in a gallon of gas to push a 6000#
vehicle
> 200 miles. I actually have seen a 200 MPG carburetor - it is on a very,
very
> tiny radio controlled car which can actually carry four passengers,
provided
> the passengers are four hummingbirds. My point of this is the big picture
> (energy needed versus gallons burned) is subject to the laws of chemistry
and
> physics and these big picture items will sometimes provide us with answers
to
> the puzzling things we observe.
>
> Aside from all this chemistry stuff - give yourself a pat on the back for
> solving your original issue with the rough running; but keep your eyes and
> ears working. The only other thing I will mention is this - if it actually
is
> not a difference in fuel, don't forget the possibility that some other
> problem may have it's solution manifest through enrichment (such as a
vacuum
> leak, induction air temperature to name a few) Engine systems have several
> factors which affect the ideal mixture for smooth running - sometimes one
> change masks another issue. Or, you might have the problem solved and it
> might be that simple.
>
> Please conside that my experience has been more involved with auto
> applications than aircraft engines. Some things transfer and some things
> don't; But, basic chemistry and physics doesn't distinguish what vehicle
an
> engine is mounted on.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dave S
> St Paul, MN
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> On Friday 10 November 2006 9:47 pm, Jay Fabian wrote:
> > Hi List,
> > Well I think it is fixed. I only tried one thing at a time to narrow
down
> > the results and the culprit. Someone sugested moving the c-clip down a
> > notch to enrichen the carbs as it might be starving in the middle range.
I
> >
> > Question is I have NEVER Had to move it before in summer or dead of
> > winter, So WHY now??????
> >
> > I did also do the methanol test of my gas with the water and it tested
out
> > to have 10% methanol in it! Maybe that is the reason why I now needed
to
> > adjust it as there was not that much over the summer?
>
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Powerfin 69" 3-blade prop |
I am no longer a kitfox flyer, so therefore I no longer need my ground
adjustable Powerfin 3-blade prop.
I bought the prop 3-years ago for my 582 (3:1 C-box) powered Kitfox-III,
and
used it about a month before I sold the plane. The prop is actually like
new with the exception of a slight scratch on the front side of one blade
which looks worse than it really is. In fact, the scratch can't even be
felt with your fingernail, but it can be seen. It could probably be
polished out, but I didn't want to try. I can send pictures if requested.
I will offer it on eBay if no one on the list is interested. I paid about
$650 for it, and will sell it at half that, plus shipping.
If you have interest, please let me know before too long,
Ron
roncar@minetfiber.com
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | [ Steven M. Magdic ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Steven M. Magdic <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Lists: Kitfox-List
Subject: Cargo Pod Mounting
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steve.magdic@1psg.com.11.11.2006/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
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Message 6
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| Subject: | [ Steven M. Magdic ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Steven M. Magdic <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Lists: Kitfox-List
Subject: 912UL Mounting In A Model 3
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steve.magdic@1psg.com.2.11.11.2006/index.html
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Message 7
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| Subject: | [ Alessandro Tonini - GT Propellers ] : New Email List Photo |
Share Available!
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Alessandro Tonini - GT Propellers <info@gt-propellers.com>
Lists: Kitfox-List
Subject: GT Propellers
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/info@gt-propellers.com.11.11.2006/index.html
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following information along with your email message and files:
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Message 8
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Hi guys, I know this one has been thrown around the paddock many times
before but my situation is that I am able to get a trailer made at my
work site as our boiler makers are sitting around with nothing to do. I
have the steel and am ready to go but I do not have any plans or
dimentions for them to work off. Can anyone send me either specs or a
plan with dimentions that will allow us to get a start. Like many
others, I file information like this for safe keeping on my home
computer but as Im working away at the moment I don=92t have access to
the
info. Any assistance would be great. Thanks guys.
Cheers
Graeme
--
27/10/2006
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fire extinguisher Mount Location |
Thanks for the Ideas everyone. Now I can go out to the shop and try them out.
Tom Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73794#73794
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Tires slipping on rims |
No tubes.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tires slipping on rims
>
> Are you using tubes, Jimmie?
>
> Lynn
>
> On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 08:55 PM, Jimmie Blackwell wrote:
>
>> <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com>
>>
>> Two of here in the Austin, Texas area are using the exact same tire as
>> Lynn. We have about 600 hours between the two of us and have never had a
>> probem. lMost of our flying is on paved runways. We use 14 lbs prssure.
>>
>> Jimmie
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tires slipping on rims
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm lucky or just stupid, but I'm running without tubes in my
>>> tires. I have the early Douglas one-piece (welded aluminum) rims, with
>>> Cheng Shin tires, and they are a beast to install or remove. I have one
>>> tire that loses about 4 pounds pressure in about a month's time, so I
>>> keep an eye on that, otherwise no problems so far. I do mostly grass
>>> runways, but if I go to a paved airport, I don't worry about it. I'd
>>> say it's probably a 60-40% mix of the two. Probably my 3-point landings
>>> keeps me slow enough to avoid the dreaded rim slipping.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>> On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 06:42 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rexs comment about the green slim sealant reminded me of this one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A local A&P puts tires on with epoxy glue to glue the tires to the
>>>> rim. You can run low air pressure in the tires with little worry about
>>>> them slipping on the rim and cutting off the valve stem on the inner
>>>> tube.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It sounded strange to me at first, but it does make sense. The epoxy
>>>> works great in shear strength, but with little tensile strength to the
>>>> rubber, the tires easily come off when you want them too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Randy
>
>
>
Message 11
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|
The task has been completed, thanks Lowell,Dave,Neol,Marco,Lynn.
I also have the Sigtronic's SPO 22N. I mounted the switches in 2
snap in plugs that fit 3/4 tube , ran the cables out the side of each
stick , secured the cable with zip ties ran them under the seat and up
behind to an alum. plate mounted to the cross tube where the SPO 22N
is stuck with velcro to the plate . Both cables are secured under the
seat and behind so as not to interfear with anything .
Do Not Archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: FAA aircraft chart for download |
Jan,
There seems to be a lack of response to your question. This is due to the common
and contagious infliction known as Foot in Mouth disease, the result of
which is extreme embarrassment, and the sudden urge to avoid further inflammation
and discomfort from speaking out.
1.1, is FAR 1.1 which contains the FAAs definitions as to be applied to
specific word, of groups of words, to help clarify the content of a statement.
They are non-negotiable.
In this case, the FAA (the chart) is allowing any Small aircraft, that is,
any aircraft 12,500 lbs or less, to attempt to meet the definition of light-sport
aircraft Maybe they will, maybe they wont. (12,500lbs is the cutoff between
Small aircraft and Large aircraft. You must apply the definition, and the
weight determination formula that is applicable and found in another FAA regulatory
document to see if your particular aircraft is eligible to be operated
under sport pilot privileges.
The chart is showing that the potential, or certificated, maximum weight of the
aircraft is not a disqualification, and confirms that the words maximum takeoff
weight, as used in the 1.1 definition is the sum of conditions that include
.the empty weight of the aircraft, the weight of the total fuel capacity,
and the weight of the pilot , and passenger if applicable, and whatever baggage
you intend to carry in the aircraft. Nothing more, nothing less.
steve
--------
Steve: Former Fi-156 'Storch' driver (...talk about folding wings!!!)
New owner, not builder- Kitfox V / 912UL / Warp Dr 3 blade. Thanks to the late
great Ray Mudge, Brighton Mi.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73812#73812
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tires slipping on rims |
I also run with no tubes. The tire shop puts a black goo on. No problems in
550 hours.
Dwight Purdy
At 07:57 PM 11/10/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Maybe I'm lucky or just stupid, but I'm running without tubes in my
>tires. I have the early Douglas one-piece (welded aluminum) rims, with
>Cheng Shin tires, and they are a beast to install or remove. I have one
>tire that loses about 4 pounds pressure in about a month's time, so I
>keep an eye on that, otherwise no problems so far. I do mostly grass
>runways, but if I go to a paved airport, I don't worry about it. I'd
>say it's probably a 60-40% mix of the two. Probably my 3-point landings
>keeps me slow enough to avoid the dreaded rim slipping.
>
>Lynn
>On Friday, November 10, 2006, at 06:42 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
>
>>Rex's comment about the green slim sealant reminded me of this one.
>>
>>
>>
>>A local A&P puts tires on with epoxy glue to glue the tires to the
>>rim. You can run low air pressure in the tires with little worry
>>about them slipping on the rim and cutting off the valve stem on the
>>inner tube.
>>
>>
>>
>>It sounded strange to me at first, but it does make sense. The epoxy
>>works great in shear strength, but with little tensile strength to the
>>rubber, the tires easily come off when you want them too.
>>
>>
>>
>>Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>.
>>
>>
><image.tiff>
>>
>>
>>From:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf OfRex Shaw
>>Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 6:20 PM
>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Buffed down tyres
>>
>>
>>
>>Rex,
>>I have an extra set of tires that are the smooth buffed atv tires. I
>>was planing
>>on using them on my classic 4 when my lawn tractor tires wear out.
>>What was
>>"shocking" about yours?
>>Tom Jones
>>Ellensburg, WA
>>
>>Tom,
>>
>> the buffed down tyres were only two ply and they only had to
>>see a grass field and they went flat. My Lawn tractor tyres are 4
>>ply. I couldn't find tubes for the buffed down tyres and that didn't
>>help. I have 8" steel rims with brake disk lugs welded on the back.
>>This causes slight distortion on the inside and leads to poor sealing
>>without tubes. The buffed down tyres were squirmy at 9-10 lb pressure
>>at times but too tight at higher pressure. I think my slightly smaller
>>Lawn tyres handle excellent at 18 PSI. I used green slime sealant in
>>the buffed down tyres only to find it started attacking the rims. All
>>in all I don't want to see them again. I couldn't put them in the bin
>>fast enough.
>>
>>
>>Rex.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>www.aeroelectric.com
>>
>>www.kitlog.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>1:40 PM
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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