Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:55 AM - Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (ramrod25)
2. 06:13 AM - Re: prop pitch and reduction (kirk hull)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Repairs (kirk hull)
4. 07:09 AM - Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (Paul Seehafer)
5. 07:16 AM - Re: Repairs (Tom Jones)
6. 07:25 AM - Re: prop pitch and reduction (JC Propellerdesign)
7. 07:35 AM - Re: Open letter to the list administrator (Michael Gibbs)
8. 08:25 AM - Re: prop pitch and reduction (kirk hull)
9. 08:26 AM - Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) (FlyboyTR)
10. 09:01 AM - Re: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) (wingsdown)
11. 09:22 AM - Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (ramrod25)
12. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (John Marzulli)
13. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (Paul Seehafer)
14. 11:37 AM - Re: OT Got the call... (Andrew Matthaey)
15. 11:58 AM - Re: OT Got the call... (debrun26@juno.com)
16. 12:27 PM - Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (ramrod25)
17. 12:58 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (Michel Verheughe)
18. 01:15 PM - Re: Glare Shield/Dash (Cudnohufsky's)
19. 02:21 PM - Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (Sjklerks@aol.com)
20. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (dave)
21. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (kurt schrader)
22. 04:03 PM - Tail Drager poem (Tom Jones)
23. 04:22 PM - Tri gear or Tail dragger ? (Rex Shaw)
24. 04:52 PM - Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger ? (wingsdown)
25. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (john perry)
26. 04:55 PM - Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger ? (dave)
27. 04:56 PM - Re: Need Door Hold upper for Fox1V (ROBERT E SIMON)
28. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 (Roger McConnell)
29. 06:05 PM - Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger ? (Colin Durey)
30. 06:14 PM - Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger ? (Lynn Matteson)
31. 07:35 PM - Need Muffler Source for Model IV 912 UL (Jimmie Blackwell)
32. 09:16 PM - Re: Need Muffler Source for Model IV 912 UL (Randy Daughenbaugh)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Dave - thanks for your reply -
At least two reasons I don't want a taildragger - 1. It's been 30 years since I
have flown a taildragger and I just don't want to go thru the learning curve.
2. I want to teach my wife how to fly, and it's just so much easier with a tri-gear.
I don't plan on really rough river bed landings. Mostly grass fields and sand
bars along the Red River (between Oklahoma and Texas). I fully plan on having
two sets of tires. Regular tires for trips that use airports (like going to
see the grandkids) and then a larger set of tires for trips to Idaho, Wyoming,
Alaska - where we might want to explore.
Isn't there an old saying about there are two kinds of pilots? - Those that have
ground-looped and those that will.
I realize that there are places a tri-gear just couldn't land, but since I'm flying
for fun and enjoyment, I can just choose other places to land. I've tried
to read all the trip stories of Kitfoxes that go to Alaska, and Newfoundland,
etc. The only stories I've come across that absolutely require a taildragger
are some guys flying Maules and Cubs with what look like 60" tires - landing
on rock river bars - they kinda ski across the water on the big tires and then
end up on these really rocky river bars that look about 200 feet long. NO THANKS.
While I really appreciate their skill - that's not in my plans.
Back to my original question. It appears that the CH701 nosegear is just a straight
pipe attached to the firewall. The Kitfox nosegear is a cantilever design.
I've not heard of any problems with the gear, but just want to get some feedback
from people with real experience before commiting to purchasing a plane.
Regarding the slats on the CH701 - there seems to be a number of people in Australia
that have removed them and put vortex generators in their place. They report
the elimination of the drag problem you mentioned, with no degradation of
the short field performance.
Regards
Rodney Wren
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76066#76066
Message 2
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| Subject: | prop pitch and reduction |
I have a stratus 100 HP Subaru conversion with a 2.2 to 1 reduction and
a 70
in warpdrive. The max Hp is at 5400 RPM but I am getting 115 mph at
4500
RPM and full power
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JC
Propellerdesign
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
Kirk,
100 HP at what engine / prop RPM ?
and what it top Speed?
with 100 HP you will make 115 - 120 MPH SL ??
say 2500 RPM and 117 MPH for an example will be around 16,7 deg @ 75% of
the
radii.
2400 RPM and 117 will be 17,35 deg @ 75% radii
2300 RPM and 117 will be 18 deg @ 75% radii
Jan Carlsson
www.jcpropellerdesign.com
----- Original Message -----
From: kirk hull <mailto:kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
I was just wandering what pitch people were running with what reduction
ratio?
I was told by the prop shop that with a 100 HP and 2.2 reduction on a
70=94
warpdrive to use around 14 deg. I have been using 17 =BD deg and
getting a
little noise from the reduction at low power settings
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href
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This I am sure about. Any A&P can do your annual . they do not need an IA
to do It. I have done some for friends and I only have an A&P.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of crazyivan
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Repairs
Like all things, especially those that get into regulatory and you butt on
the line, check with an expert.
My amature reply is that you as the non-builder owner can do all of the
maintenance but an A&P must do your annual. I'm not sure if the A&P must be
"annual" authorized, but I don't think so. I just changed my prop and the
local FSDO knows all about it.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76030#76030
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Rodney,
I have flying experience in Kitfoxes and 701's. In my opinion the Kitfox
is definitely the better airplane for most peoples needs.
Here are my comparisons to support my opinion;
(assuming both aircraft equipped with 912s Rotax 100 hp engines)
Cruise Performance: Kitfox is 25-35 mph faster in cruise.
Takeoff Distance: Kitfox needs a couple hundred feet, whereas the 701
needs only a hundred.
Climb Performance: Kitfox climb rate is very similar to 701, but angle is
not as steep initially.
Landing Distance: Kitfox needs approx 100 ft more than the 701 (701
is extremely high drag).
Overall Handling : Kitfox is more agile and sportier. 701 is more
Cessna like.
Overall Weights: Kitfox weighs approx 100 lbs more than 701, but
has 450 lbs more gross!
Realistic Useful: Kitfox 750 lbs, 701 only 450 lbs.
Fuel Efficiency: Kitfox approx 70% more fuel efficient due to
higher cruise on same gph.
Fuel Range: Kitfox can go twice as far due to higher cruise
and 7 more gallons fuel on board.
LSA Compliant: Kitfox and 701 are both Light Sport eligible.
Airframe Strength: Kitfox is 4130 chromoly steel (like 200 mph race
cars), 701 very light aluminum.
Crash Worthiness: Which will collapse easier, a pop can or a pipe?
So there's my two cents on it.
Ironically, my friends 680 lb 912s powered 701 suffered a nosewheel collapse
within it's first ten hours. Buckled the firewall, requiring an extensive
replacement and repair. So I don't think that 701 nosegear is quite as
stout as it might look. But he does enjoy the airplane again (and he knows
just how high the sink rate is on a 701 when you pull the power).
I don't mean to be bashing the 701 as I think it is a good airplane overall.
But compared to a Kitfox, there just really isn't any comparison. For most
people's needs, the Kitfox advantages outweigh most all competition. (Gee,
I didn't even get around to mentioning the "real" folding wing of the
Kitfox...)
But if you are in need of the SUPER STOL characteristics of the 701, you
might want to go that route. However, there is a much less expensive way to
do the same thing; Just find an older Kitfox you can add a nosegear to, and
then power it with any light 100 hp engine. It will have SUPER STOL
characteristics at least as good as the 701.
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
Model IV -1200 912ul
----- Original Message -----
From: "ramrod25" <r_wren@wfec.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 7 or CH701
>
> I have decided I definitaly want a tri-cycle gear stol airplane. My
> concern is that the CH701 nosegear appears to be much more structurally
> solid than the current Kitfox design. However, I think the Kitfox is a
> better looking/performing airplane.
>
> Is the current Kitfox design strong enough to handle a large tire upfront
> or will structural modifications be required.
>
> Your thoughts,
>
> Regards,
> Rodney Wren
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75938#75938
>
>
>
Message 5
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In plain English: Anyone can work on an experimental aircraft and the only signature
ever needed is for the annual condition inspection. This signature must
be the builder with a Repairman's Certificate or someone with at least an A&P.
In gobuldy gook:
I am going to buy a used homebuilt, what work can I perform myself?
FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to experimental,
amateur-built aircraft. Therefore, any work (not just maintenance)
on an experimental aircraft can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of
credentials. (This does not apply to the condition inspection). Let common sense
be your guide as to what maintenance you conduct yourself.
What is a Condition Inspection?
A condition inspection is the equivalent of an "annual" for a type certificated
aircraft. Although FAR Part 91.409(c)(1) specifically states that experimental
aircraft do not require annual inspections, the operating limitations on your
homebuilt will include the following (or something similar):
No person shall operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12 calendar months
it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with the scope
and detail of appendix D to part 43, or other FAA-approved programs, and found
to be in a condition for safe operation. This inspection will be recorded in
the aircraft maintenance records. Condition inspections shall be recorded in
the aircraft maintenance records showing the following or a similarly worded statement:
"I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in
accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43 and found to be
in a condition for safe operation." The entry will include the aircraft total
time in service, and the name, signature, certificate number, and type of certificate
held by the
person performing the inspection.
See the condition inspection checklist for use in conducting annual condition inspections
under the Operating section of this web.
Since I don't have a Repairman Certificate, who must perform the Condition Inspection?
The inspection can be performed by any licensed A&P mechanic, an FAA Approved Repair
Station, or by the original builder of the airplane provided the builder
has a "Repairman Certificate" for that aircraft from the FAA. Note that unlike
an annual for a type certificated aircraft, the A&P mechanic does NOT have to
have his/her "Inspection Authorization". Sometimes, if you are lucky, you can
include as part of the purchase that the builder will continue to perform the
condition inspections.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76092#76092
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: prop pitch and reduction |
Kirk,
My guess is you have 85 - 90 hp at 4500, The stratus page didn't say max
torque, (should be in that rpm range)
If you want all Power (and if engine have) at 5400 my "guess" is that
you need 17 - 17,5 deg at 75% (not at tip)
and if you have just 90 hp at 5400 you want 16,25 - 16,75 deg
If you know where max torque is, it is a good thing to prop it so you
are around or above that rpm at climb speed.
I think if you reduce the pitch little you will gain speed and climb
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: kirk hull
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
I have a stratus 100 HP Subaru conversion with a 2.2 to 1 reduction
and a 70 in warpdrive. The max Hp is at 5400 RPM but I am getting 115
mph at 4500 RPM and full power
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JC
Propellerdesign
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:44 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
Kirk,
100 HP at what engine / prop RPM ?
and what it top Speed?
with 100 HP you will make 115 - 120 MPH SL ??
say 2500 RPM and 117 MPH for an example will be around 16,7 deg @ 75%
of the radii.
2400 RPM and 117 will be 17,35 deg @ 75% radii
2300 RPM and 117 will be 18 deg @ 75% radii
Jan Carlsson
www.jcpropellerdesign.com
----- Original Message -----
From: kirk hull
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com ; Al Brown
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
I was just wandering what pitch people were running with what
reduction ratio?
I was told by the prop shop that with a 100 HP and 2.2 reduction on
a 70" warpdrive to use around 14 deg. I have been using 17 =BD deg and
getting a little noise from the reduction at low power settings
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w
ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com"
>www.kitlog.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.co
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chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matro
n
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ox-List
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| Subject: | Re: Open letter to the list administrator |
Steve sez:
>...But not according to the whim of each individual who disaproves.
No whims are involved. The rules are in writing and have not changed
significantly in many years. Every few months we have a rash of
"please stay on topic" messages followed by an equally sizeable rash
of "it's easy to delete the off-topic ones" messages. Both camps
have valid points, of course, and we typically end up right where we
started.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 8
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| Subject: | prop pitch and reduction |
Thinks I will try 16.5 and see what happens. Max torque is at 3800 RPM
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JC
Propellerdesign
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
Kirk,
My guess is you have 85 - 90 hp at 4500, The stratus page didn't say max
torque, (should be in that rpm range)
If you want all Power (and if engine have) at 5400 my "guess" is that
you
need 17 - 17,5 deg at 75% (not at tip)
and if you have just 90 hp at 5400 you want 16,25 - 16,75 deg
If you know where max torque is, it is a good thing to prop it so you
are
around or above that rpm at climb speed.
I think if you reduce the pitch little you will gain speed and climb
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: kirk hull <mailto:kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
I have a stratus 100 HP Subaru conversion with a 2.2 to 1 reduction and
a 70
in warpdrive. The max Hp is at 5400 RPM but I am getting 115 mph at
4500
RPM and full power
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JC
Propellerdesign
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
Kirk,
100 HP at what engine / prop RPM ?
and what it top Speed?
with 100 HP you will make 115 - 120 MPH SL ??
say 2500 RPM and 117 MPH for an example will be around 16,7 deg @ 75% of
the
radii.
2400 RPM and 117 will be 17,35 deg @ 75% radii
2300 RPM and 117 will be 18 deg @ 75% radii
Jan Carlsson
www.jcpropellerdesign.com
----- Original Message -----
From: kirk hull <mailto:kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: prop pitch and reduction
I was just wandering what pitch people were running with what reduction
ratio?
I was told by the prop shop that with a 100 HP and 2.2 reduction on a
70=94
warpdrive to use around 14 deg. I have been using 17 =BD deg and
getting a
little noise from the reduction at low power settings
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
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href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
www.aeroelectric.com
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
Ivo Magnum arrived. Looks OK. Wanted to add a couple of pictures showing the
Warp Drive and the Magnum. It looks really "large" as compaired to the Warp.
Plan to install this week. I'll update after installation and flight testing.
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen
N-789DF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76115#76115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/warp_and_ivo_prop_comparison6_128.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/warp_and_ivo_prop_comparison4_822.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/warp_and_ivo_prop_comparison2_103.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/warp_and_ivo_prop_comparison1_933.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
At first I thought dang big blade, wide cord, longer, and then I saw it
is going on a continental. That looks about right to me. Hope it works
out. Interested in the real world results. Thanks for the pics. Love
that feature.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FlyboyTR
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:26 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine)
Ivo Magnum arrived. Looks OK. Wanted to add a couple of pictures
showing the Warp Drive and the Magnum. It looks really "large" as
compaired to the Warp. Plan to install this week. I'll update after
installation and flight testing.
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen
N-789DF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76115#76115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/warp_and_ivo_prop_comparison6_128.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/warp_and_ivo_prop_comparison4_822.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/warp_and_ivo_prop_comparison2_103.jpg
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Av8rps
Thanks very much - this is exactly the level of experience I was hoping to find.
Appreciate your taking the time and effort to reply.
I think your advice is very sound about finding a good used one and converting
it to a tri-gear if required.
Still, the new model 7 with perhaps the Jabaru 3300 engine is very tempting.
Regards
Rodney Wren
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76133#76133
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
You may want to start lurking on the 701 list, or search the archives. There
was a huge discussion about the very topic of slat removal.
As for the Kitfox, I love it. I really looked hard at the Series 7, but when
it came time to buy there were two factors that swung me to the CH701. 1)
Zenith was in business, Skystar was not. 2) My "mission profile" was to put
amphibs on my plane and go camping in Alaska, a task that I wanted "super"
STOL performance for.
The tail and control surfaces are finished, and my wings arrive Wednesday,
and I can't say I regret my choice.
On 11/21/06, ramrod25 <r_wren@wfec.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dave - thanks for your reply -
>
> At least two reasons I don't want a taildragger - 1. It's been 30 years
> since I have flown a taildragger and I just don't want to go thru the
> learning curve. 2. I want to teach my wife how to fly, and it's just so
> much easier with a tri-gear.
>
> I don't plan on really rough river bed landings. Mostly grass fields and
> sand bars along the Red River (between Oklahoma and Texas). I fully plan on
> having two sets of tires. Regular tires for trips that use airports (like
> going to see the grandkids) and then a larger set of tires for trips to
> Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska - where we might want to explore.
>
> Isn't there an old saying about there are two kinds of pilots? - Those
> that have ground-looped and those that will.
>
> I realize that there are places a tri-gear just couldn't land, but since
> I'm flying for fun and enjoyment, I can just choose other places to
> land. I've tried to read all the trip stories of Kitfoxes that go to
> Alaska, and Newfoundland, etc. The only stories I've come across that
> absolutely require a taildragger are some guys flying Maules and Cubs with
> what look like 60" tires - landing on rock river bars - they kinda ski
> across the water on the big tires and then end up on these really rocky
> river bars that look about 200 feet long. NO THANKS. While I really
> appreciate their skill - that's not in my plans.
>
> Back to my original question. It appears that the CH701 nosegear is just
> a straight pipe attached to the firewall. The Kitfox nosegear is a
> cantilever design. I've not heard of any problems with the gear, but just
> want to get some feedback from people with real experience before commiting
> to purchasing a plane.
>
> Regarding the slats on the CH701 - there seems to be a number of people in
> Australia that have removed them and put vortex generators in their
> place. They report the elimination of the drag problem you mentioned, with
> no degradation of the short field performance.
>
> Regards
> Rodney Wren
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76066#76066
>
>
--
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot
harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Rodney,
I'm glad to know I was able to help. Reading your later comment about
potentially traveling a bunch in your new airplane, I definitely think you
will want the Kitfox. My 701 buddy just reminded me of flying home from
Oshkosh at gross weight and seeing a 32 mph groundspeed due to headwinds
that were 30-40 mph. I've never yet had cars pass me in my kitfox, so I
guess I'm already too spoiled to just accept those kind of speeds traveling
cross country.
I really like the new Kitfox. The baggage area and useful load is worth
going with the new airplane (especially when traveling with heavier things
than socks and underwear on those long cross countries). And knowing you
can safely haul the extras will make your significant other love the Kitfox
too :-) I know you'd have no regrets if going with the new fox. It's an
awesome airplane, and sounds like just what you need to satisfy your flying
needs. But the best part is the fun you will have. You will never grow
tired of flying the Kitfox. It is just so much fun to fly!
The big Jabiru would make for an interesting comparison to the 100 hp Rotax
912s. I know of one kitplane mfr that has one of each of these engines in
the same model airplane, and have flown them together cross country numerous
times. The Jabiru has to carry an extra fuel tank to make the same range
the Rotax does. But that also was an early 3300, and I heard the company
has made some changes to the carb and the heads (for overheating issues).
It would be interesting to hear from other Kitfoxers running the 3300
Jabiru. We have a lot of stats on the 912's, and I personally am sold on it
after owning one in my Model IV and flying many others in other aircraft.
BUT, those jabirus sure look good, sound great, and have less parts to hook
up...
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "ramrod25" <r_wren@wfec.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:22 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701
>
> Av8rps
>
> Thanks very much - this is exactly the level of experience I was hoping to
> find. Appreciate your taking the time and effort to reply.
>
> I think your advice is very sound about finding a good used one and
> converting it to a tri-gear if required.
>
> Still, the new model 7 with perhaps the Jabaru 3300 engine is very
> tempting.
>
> Regards
> Rodney Wren
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76133#76133
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: OT Got the call... |
Thanks Michel and Kurt - I appreciate all the help I can get ;-)
and Kurt - that's a great story - It's good to hear of one heavy-iron driver
still keeping up his stick and rudder skills! I certainly intend to do the
same - I noticed a huge improvement in my flying GA after flying the 'Fox
around...I wouldn't trade it for the world!!
Thanks again,
Andrew
KF3
CFI/CFII/MEI
>From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OT Got the call...
>Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:39:50 -0800 (PST)
>
><smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Way to go Andrew!
>
>Making it a little more on topic....
>
>Don't forget to keep flying Fox's. I've got 1/2 a
>gazillian hours in heavy metal, but my V-1 cuts
>improved greatly as soon as I started tailwheel Fox
>flying. They make keeping sharp fun.
>
>Just the other week we 2 (alone) were flying from
>Brazil into the mountain country of Bogata Columbia in
>a 767 when both FMC computers failed over the jungle.
>Autopilot, autothrottles and navigation systems just
>about gone. We were Fox flying at FL350. Add to it,
>the controllers were in a tizzy because they had the
>worst aviation accident in brazil history recently and
>some controllers may go to jail. Those on duty were
>rerouting us all over, and neither of us understand
>Portugese. It was a very busy 6 hours.
>
>yup, map and compass in a 767 over the Amazon....
>
>Kurt S. S-5 (and proud of it)
>
>--- Andrew Matthaey <spaghettiohead@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> > Heya List...
> >
> > Well I've only been flight instructing for about 7
> > weeks here in Oregon, and
> > I actually got the call a few days ago - can't
> > believe how quick that was!!
> >
> > I've got an interview next tuesday 9am (CST) for a
> > new-hire class first week
> > of December to fly the ERJ-145...Wish me luck
> > everybody! I've been working
> > my tail off for the last four years for this!!
> >
> > Andrew
> > KF3
> > CFI/CFII/MEI
> >
> > do not archive
>
>
>$200,000 mortgage for $660/ mo
>30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt
>http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: OT Got the call... |
ALL RIGHT ANDREW!!!! I knew you were a better pilot than the meager wa
ge you were getting for instructing. Good luck from Deb and me. I stil
l have my searies V stuck in Snohomish, WA due to weather. Would love t
o have you build up a few more hours ferriing my plane up to AK all expe
nses paid and some cash in your pocket besides. Layne
________________________________________________________________________
<html>ALL RIGHT ANDREW!!!! I knew you were a better pilot th
an the meager wage you were getting for instructing. Good luck fro
m Deb and me. I still have my searies V stuck in Snohomish, WA due
to weather. Would love to have you build up a few more
hours ferriing my plane up to AK all expenses paid and some cash in your
pocket besides. Layne
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
Visit <a href="http://www.juno.com/value">http://www.juno.com/value</a
> to sign up today!<br></font>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Paul
Your first paragraph really made me laugh! When I first got my pilot's license
I made a trip from Lubbock to Tucson, Az. It was in an old Cessna 172 with the
145 hp Continental engine - we had such a bad headwind that the cars on the
freeway were passing us. I forgot about that until you mentioned the experience
your friend had. I guess there are just some days like that. But - it's
better to be flying than driving.
Well I appreciate all the help - I really wanted a Kitfox, but needed to address
the concerns about the nosegear. And unless I buy one all ready put together,
the next big decision will have to be the engine.
Everyone I have talked to really likes the Rotax engines. I think there are three
engines I might be interested in: 1. The 100 hp Rotax 912S 2. The Jabaru
3300 and 3. the Ram Subaru that puts out 140 HP.
The 912S seems to be a very proven engine with a good historical base behind it.
The Jabaru and the Ram Subaru are less well proven - but by the time I get
around to buying an engine - that may have changed. I think that right now
the Rotax would be the engine of choice.
Thanks again for your advice
Regards
Rodney Wren
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76160#76160
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
On Nov 21, 2006, at 9:26 PM, ramrod25 wrote:
> The Jabaru and the Ram Subaru are less well proven - but by the time I
> get around to buying an engine - that may have changed.
Very wise, Rodney. I have a Jabiru 2200 and I am very pleased with it
but it is serial # 1665, a later and improved model. The 3300 is still
in its infancy.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Glare Shield/Dash |
If you want it out of fiberglass or carbon fiber you can make a mold from a
thin piece of sheet metal and then layup the glass o nthe bottom side of the
tin, use a release agent.
M2CW
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allen" <kitfoxfugit@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:24 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Glare Shield/Dash
>
>
> Any good ideas out there on making a glare shield for
> a IV?
>
> Black carpet.
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
One thing to consider about the choice between a Kitfox and the 701 is, If
you ever have an engine failure, the 701 will fall to the ground like a
rock and the Kitfox will at least give you an excellent glide ratio?
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Rodney,
Well hopefully you will test fly any model that you are looking at and
take a GPS with you to see what speeds they are actually getting. I did
say that my friend has a 701 with 912 UL in it and he says 85 mph ........
I would verify that with a flight your self. I know my 582 Kitfox IV will
fly at 88 to 90 mph at 1500 asl -- and I would guess well over 100 at
7500 or better...
The taildragger talk it a old one and to each their own. Nose gear 701 or
Kitfox will certainly fit the bill as you described, but also they will
break . 701 nose gears have been bent up from hard landings.
Hope that helps you ,but the key to your right choice is to fly both models
you are looking at. I am in Ontario Canada and would be more than happy to
take you up. Where are you located ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "ramrod25" <r_wren@wfec.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701
>
> Dave - thanks for your reply -
>
> At least two reasons I don't want a taildragger - 1. It's been 30 years
> since I have flown a taildragger and I just don't want to go thru the
> learning curve. 2. I want to teach my wife how to fly, and it's just so
> much easier with a tri-gear.
>
> I don't plan on really rough river bed landings. Mostly grass fields and
> sand bars along the Red River (between Oklahoma and Texas). I fully plan
> on having two sets of tires. Regular tires for trips that use airports
> (like going to see the grandkids) and then a larger set of tires for trips
> to Idaho, Wyoming, Alaska - where we might want to explore.
>
> Isn't there an old saying about there are two kinds of pilots? - Those
> that have ground-looped and those that will.
>
> I realize that there are places a tri-gear just couldn't land, but since
> I'm flying for fun and enjoyment, I can just choose other places to land.
> I've tried to read all the trip stories of Kitfoxes that go to Alaska, and
> Newfoundland, etc. The only stories I've come across that absolutely
> require a taildragger are some guys flying Maules and Cubs with what look
> like 60" tires - landing on rock river bars - they kinda ski across the
> water on the big tires and then end up on these really rocky river bars
> that look about 200 feet long. NO THANKS. While I really appreciate
> their skill - that's not in my plans.
>
> Back to my original question. It appears that the CH701 nosegear is just
> a straight pipe attached to the firewall. The Kitfox nosegear is a
> cantilever design. I've not heard of any problems with the gear, but just
> want to get some feedback from people with real experience before
> commiting to purchasing a plane.
>
> Regarding the slats on the CH701 - there seems to be a number of people in
> Australia that have removed them and put vortex generators in their place.
> They report the elimination of the drag problem you mentioned, with no
> degradation of the short field performance.
>
> Regards
> Rodney Wren
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76066#76066
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Hi Paul,
I would be a little more concerned with a heavy engine
on a nose gear plane. More enertia and weight for the
nose gear to handle. I have the NSI Soob, but on a
tail dragger. For your application, the Rotax and
Jabaru sound better. I think the 3300 will eventually
be the better choice, but it depends upon when you
have to buy it. As you say, Rotax for now and the
3300 better sometime later.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI Soob
--- ramrod25 <r_wren@wfec.com> wrote:
..........
> Everyone I have talked to really likes the Rotax
> engines. I think there are three engines I might be
> interested in: 1. The 100 hp Rotax 912S 2. The
> Jabaru 3300 and 3. the Ram Subaru that puts out 140
> HP.
>
> The 912S seems to be a very proven engine with a
> good historical base behind it. The Jabaru and the
> Ram Subaru are less well proven - but by the time I
> get around to buying an engine - that may have
> changed. I think that right now the Rotax would
> be the engine of choice.
>
> Thanks again for your advice
> Regards
> Rodney Wren
Message 22
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| Subject: | Tail Drager poem |
TAILDRAGGER
Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license , ratings and such
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch
It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
You see, I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
With one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer
But this miserable thing with tires and struts
Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
It demands your attention on the take-off roll
Or it'll head towards Jones's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
This wicked little plane is just too much
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine.
It's not that bad if you have the touch
Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry
That's my own tail that's going by.
You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, Great Scott THAT'S TOO MUCH!
Author unknown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76195#76195
Message 23
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| Subject: | Tri gear or Tail dragger ? |
On 11/20/06, ramrod25 <r_wren@wfec.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have decided I definitaly want a tri-cycle gear stol airplane. My
> concern is that the CH701 nosegear appears to be much more
structurally
> solid than the current Kitfox design. However, I think the Kitfox is
a
> better looking/performing airplane.
>
> Is the current Kitfox design strong enough to handle a large tire
upfront
> or will structural modifications be required.
>
> Your thoughts,
>
> Regards,
> Rodney Wren
Hi ! Rodney,
you say you definitely want nose gear but you
don't say why unless I missed it somewhere else. When I bought my Kitfox
MKIV tail dragger I had trained in a Jabiru tri-cycle and most were
telling me I should think the decision carefully. I guess some were
stronger about it too. In fact I think no one fully supported my
decision to go tail dragger. They all said it was much harder !
I just wonder if this is something like what is making up your mind to
go nose gear. If so now in hind sight I would say "Don't let it worry
you." Sure one can handle a tri-cycle just fine and jump into a tail
dragger and get in all sorts of tangles BUT with the RIGHT help it's
really not that hard to sort the problem. Unfortunately you will always
get different opinions on what exactly to do to fly a tail dragger and
that only adds to the confusion. My experience since learning tail
dragger is that the most common problem others are having is landing due
to trying to do wheelers. Yes I know that's the only way some do it but
I have found when they try 3 pointing instead with a bit of advice that
all of a sudden they get it down just fine and their confidence
increases dramatically.
If you study your Basic Aircraft Knowledge you will see there is a lot
of forces acting on a tail dragger more than tri-cycle. In the learning
stage these can cause wild swings etc both on landing and take-off.
However after you master it you probably won't even notice these. It's
like taking off in a trike. The Jabiru pulled to the left but after a
while I didn't even notice it. I was just correcting automatically. You
will soon be doing the same in a dragger.
I had a very good CFI friend help me and basically this is how we
handled it. On take-off I initially held the tail down with full back
stick to about 20 knots. This gives steering control. I then would go to
neutral stick as I then had enough airflow over the the tail and due to
the angle of attack with the tail down we would gently lift off just
above stall. This meant we avoided most of the forces pulling the plane
off line and so I quickly gained confidence. However as we lifted off
just above stall we had to be very carefull and for this reason we soon
progressed to a different aproach but I had gained confidence !
Next I learnt to hold the tail down as before to about 20 knots but
then instead of neutral stick go to slightly forward stick and lift the
tail to achieve zero angle of attack. This way there is far less drag
from the wings while I pickup speed to about 40 knots or so and then I
gently pull back and up we go. Having gained confidence by the first
method you can now handle the pulling forces fairly easilly.
Now landings ! Right many will argue here re wheelers versus 3
pointers but I'm going to stick my neck out here for 3 pointers because
I am hopeless at wheelers anyway and in the cases where others have had
trouble landing it's been because they are trying to do wheelers. OK I
know when you can do them there is nothing to it but in the meantime I'm
dead certain it's easier to 3 point my Kitfox at least. Really in my
plane and other Kitfox's I know off all there is to it is "Get the stick
hard back into the seat cushion without flaring high and before touch
down. It won't bounce ! Not that it really is bouncing anyway, it's
flying again due to angle of attack and being above stall.
Now there is another point. You need to get good at steering with your
feet. Just practice. In any case trying to steer a castoring nose wheel
with brakes is surely harder at any sort of speed.
So what I'm saying is don't pass the dragger because it appears to be
a hard skill to master. It's not ! Also if you want stol that suggests
you want to land in the rough somtimes. Well I'd far sooner be in a
dragger thanks very much. You ask if structural mods are needed for a
large tyre up front. Well I would imagine so but don't really know.
however I do know I'd be far happier in the rough not pushing a nose
wheel along in front. One can only hold it up for so long.
Yes I agree with you a Kitfox is a special little plane compared to
others. Even if I was in a position to change planes I would not stray
far if at all from what I've got. I would suggest to you that if you go
tail dragger Kitfox you really will be very glad on both the Kitfox and
dragger decisions after only a short learning curve and then you will be
having a lot of fun like the rest of us. Go for it and enjoy. That's
what it is all about !
Rex.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Tri gear or Tail dragger ? |
SS did offer a larger front tire. It was a late upgrade that required
the fork to be changed out. There was also an update to the front strut.
Might check with the new owners.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rex Shaw
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tri gear or Tail dragger ?
On 11/20/06, ramrod25 < <mailto:r_wren@wfec.com> r_wren@wfec.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have decided I definitaly want a tri-cycle gear stol airplane. My
> concern is that the CH701 nosegear appears to be much more
structurally
> solid than the current Kitfox design. However, I think the Kitfox is
a
> better looking/performing airplane.
>
> Is the current Kitfox design strong enough to handle a large tire
upfront
> or will structural modifications be required.
>
> Your thoughts,
>
> Regards,
> Rodney Wren
Hi ! Rodney,
you say you definitely want nose gear but you
don't say why unless I missed it somewhere else. When I bought my Kitfox
MKIV tail dragger I had trained in a Jabiru tri-cycle and most were
telling me I should think the decision carefully. I guess some were
stronger about it too. In fact I think no one fully supported my
decision to go tail dragger. They all said it was much harder !
I just wonder if this is something like what is making up your mind to
go nose gear. If so now in hind sight I would say "Don't let it worry
you." Sure one can handle a tri-cycle just fine and jump into a tail
dragger and get in all sorts of tangles BUT with the RIGHT help it's
really not that hard to sort the problem. Unfortunately you will always
get different opinions on what exactly to do to fly a tail dragger and
that only adds to the confusion. My experience since learning tail
dragger is that the most common problem others are having is landing due
to trying to do wheelers. Yes I know that's the only way some do it but
I have found when they try 3 pointing instead with a bit of advice that
all of a sudden they get it down just fine and their confidence
increases dramatically.
If you study your Basic Aircraft Knowledge you will see there is a lot
of forces acting on a tail dragger more than tri-cycle. In the learning
stage these can cause wild swings etc both on landing and take-off.
However after you master it you probably won't even notice these. It's
like taking off in a trike. The Jabiru pulled to the left but after a
while I didn't even notice it. I was just correcting automatically. You
will soon be doing the same in a dragger.
I had a very good CFI friend help me and basically this is how we
handled it. On take-off I initially held the tail down with full back
stick to about 20 knots. This gives steering control. I then would go to
neutral stick as I then had enough airflow over the the tail and due to
the angle of attack with the tail down we would gently lift off just
above stall. This meant we avoided most of the forces pulling the plane
off line and so I quickly gained confidence. However as we lifted off
just above stall we had to be very carefull and for this reason we soon
progressed to a different aproach but I had gained confidence !
Next I learnt to hold the tail down as before to about 20 knots but
then instead of neutral stick go to slightly forward stick and lift the
tail to achieve zero angle of attack. This way there is far less drag
from the wings while I pickup speed to about 40 knots or so and then I
gently pull back and up we go. Having gained confidence by the first
method you can now handle the pulling forces fairly easilly.
Now landings ! Right many will argue here re wheelers versus 3
pointers but I'm going to stick my neck out here for 3 pointers because
I am hopeless at wheelers anyway and in the cases where others have had
trouble landing it's been because they are trying to do wheelers. OK I
know when you can do them there is nothing to it but in the meantime I'm
dead certain it's easier to 3 point my Kitfox at least. Really in my
plane and other Kitfox's I know off all there is to it is "Get the stick
hard back into the seat cushion without flaring high and before touch
down. It won't bounce ! Not that it really is bouncing anyway, it's
flying again due to angle of attack and being above stall.
Now there is another point. You need to get good at steering with your
feet. Just practice. In any case trying to steer a castoring nose wheel
with brakes is surely harder at any sort of speed.
So what I'm saying is don't pass the dragger because it appears to be
a hard skill to master. It's not ! Also if you want stol that suggests
you want to land in the rough somtimes. Well I'd far sooner be in a
dragger thanks very much. You ask if structural mods are needed for a
large tyre up front. Well I would imagine so but don't really know.
however I do know I'd be far happier in the rough not pushing a nose
wheel along in front. One can only hold it up for so long.
Yes I agree with you a Kitfox is a special little plane compared to
others. Even if I was in a position to change planes I would not stray
far if at all from what I've got. I would suggest to you that if you go
tail dragger Kitfox you really will be very glad on both the Kitfox and
dragger decisions after only a short learning curve and then you will be
having a lot of fun like the rest of us. Go for it and enjoy. That's
what it is all about !
Rex.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Rodney
I am in Lawton OKlahoma just north of the RED RIVER . I have been thinking
of running the river but wondered if I would get in trouble for landing on
the sand bars or not ?. What does the FAA say about this and will we get
spanked for it . if not Im in this weekend and flying the river . What do
you guys out there think .
If you are near me give a holler and well have to meet up and let you fly
the bird.
Take care every one have a great safe week and a very HAPPY
THANKSGIVING<<<<<< thankful for the KITFOX
Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
580-695-8778
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger ? |
Rex , very well put .
Now what critique can you give me here?
http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
One wheelers, two wheelers or 3 pointers......... why are do
taildragers get a bad rap ?
Same reason as 2 strokes do-- the pilot that is operating it perhaps ?
Yes there are some that are not co-ordinated but you only have to be
able to use rudders and stick as you do in any plane on take off or
landing. Always know where you wind it and your nose pointed and
always being steered.
Our daily temps near freezing now and performance is getting better.
100 foot take offs the normal ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Rex Shaw
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tri gear or Tail dragger ?
On 11/20/06, ramrod25 <r_wren@wfec.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have decided I definitaly want a tri-cycle gear stol airplane. My
> concern is that the CH701 nosegear appears to be much more
structurally
> solid than the current Kitfox design. However, I think the Kitfox
is a
> better looking/performing airplane.
>
> Is the current Kitfox design strong enough to handle a large tire
upfront
> or will structural modifications be required.
>
> Your thoughts,
>
> Regards,
> Rodney Wren
Hi ! Rodney,
you say you definitely want nose gear but you
don't say why unless I missed it somewhere else. When I bought my Kitfox
MKIV tail dragger I had trained in a Jabiru tri-cycle and most were
telling me I should think the decision carefully. I guess some were
stronger about it too. In fact I think no one fully supported my
decision to go tail dragger. They all said it was much harder !
I just wonder if this is something like what is making up your mind
to go nose gear. If so now in hind sight I would say "Don't let it worry
you." Sure one can handle a tri-cycle just fine and jump into a tail
dragger and get in all sorts of tangles BUT with the RIGHT help it's
really not that hard to sort the problem. Unfortunately you will always
get different opinions on what exactly to do to fly a tail dragger and
that only adds to the confusion. My experience since learning tail
dragger is that the most common problem others are having is landing due
to trying to do wheelers. Yes I know that's the only way some do it but
I have found when they try 3 pointing instead with a bit of advice that
all of a sudden they get it down just fine and their confidence
increases dramatically.
If you study your Basic Aircraft Knowledge you will see there is a
lot of forces acting on a tail dragger more than tri-cycle. In the
learning stage these can cause wild swings etc both on landing and
take-off. However after you master it you probably won't even notice
these. It's like taking off in a trike. The Jabiru pulled to the left
but after a while I didn't even notice it. I was just correcting
automatically. You will soon be doing the same in a dragger.
I had a very good CFI friend help me and basically this is how we
handled it. On take-off I initially held the tail down with full back
stick to about 20 knots. This gives steering control. I then would go to
neutral stick as I then had enough airflow over the the tail and due to
the angle of attack with the tail down we would gently lift off just
above stall. This meant we avoided most of the forces pulling the plane
off line and so I quickly gained confidence. However as we lifted off
just above stall we had to be very carefull and for this reason we soon
progressed to a different aproach but I had gained confidence !
Next I learnt to hold the tail down as before to about 20 knots but
then instead of neutral stick go to slightly forward stick and lift the
tail to achieve zero angle of attack. This way there is far less drag
from the wings while I pickup speed to about 40 knots or so and then I
gently pull back and up we go. Having gained confidence by the first
method you can now handle the pulling forces fairly easilly.
Now landings ! Right many will argue here re wheelers versus 3
pointers but I'm going to stick my neck out here for 3 pointers because
I am hopeless at wheelers anyway and in the cases where others have had
trouble landing it's been because they are trying to do wheelers. OK I
know when you can do them there is nothing to it but in the meantime I'm
dead certain it's easier to 3 point my Kitfox at least. Really in my
plane and other Kitfox's I know off all there is to it is "Get the stick
hard back into the seat cushion without flaring high and before touch
down. It won't bounce ! Not that it really is bouncing anyway, it's
flying again due to angle of attack and being above stall.
Now there is another point. You need to get good at steering with
your feet. Just practice. In any case trying to steer a castoring nose
wheel with brakes is surely harder at any sort of speed.
So what I'm saying is don't pass the dragger because it appears to
be a hard skill to master. It's not ! Also if you want stol that
suggests you want to land in the rough somtimes. Well I'd far sooner be
in a dragger thanks very much. You ask if structural mods are needed for
a large tyre up front. Well I would imagine so but don't really know.
however I do know I'd be far happier in the rough not pushing a nose
wheel along in front. One can only hold it up for so long.
Yes I agree with you a Kitfox is a special little plane compared to
others. Even if I was in a position to change planes I would not stray
far if at all from what I've got. I would suggest to you that if you go
tail dragger Kitfox you really will be very glad on both the Kitfox and
dragger decisions after only a short learning curve and then you will be
having a lot of fun like the rest of us. Go for it and enjoy. That's
what it is all about !
Rex.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Need Door Hold upper for Fox1V |
Hi John.
My Fox 1V uses a spring system to hold the door open. The part that
attaches to the wing has broken the riveted strap. I do not know if you
can replace this, but you are my only provider. Let me know of any
options? The three leaf spring is doing fine, and I tested it strength
last week . Not on purpose? I may soon be in the need of a new muffler.
What do you have to offer?
Over,and out. Grasstripper.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701 |
Rodney,
Where at along the Red River do you fly? I'm in Duncan just to the
north, right about in the middle.
Roger Mac
S7/912uls
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ramrod25
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:22 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 7 or CH701
Av8rps
Thanks very much - this is exactly the level of experience I was hoping to
find. Appreciate your taking the time and effort to reply.
I think your advice is very sound about finding a good used one and
converting it to a tri-gear if required.
Still, the new model 7 with perhaps the Jabaru 3300 engine is very tempting.
Regards
Rodney Wren
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76133#76133
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger ? |
Hi guys,
I can't resist this one, especially after Rex's well put words. Going back
(again) to my gliding days, ONE wheel and a belly hook add up to some
pretty strange (and powerfull) forces on take-off, with landings also an
experience. Ground loops are always a potential, but good instruction,
practice, and attention to flying skills, add up to really enjoyable
flying. I've never ground-looped in either glider or Skyfox (variant of
the Kitfox), but have felt a couple developing and corrected.
Rodney, I wouldn't walk away from a taildragger just because it takes a
bit more time and attention to master its peculiarities. The Kitfox is a
great plane.
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney - Australia
dave said:
> Rex , very well put .
>
> Now what critique can you give me here? http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
>
> One wheelers, two wheelers or 3 pointers......... why are do taildragers
> get a bad rap ?
> Same reason as 2 strokes do-- the pilot that is operating it perhaps ?
>
> Yes there are some that are not co-ordinated but you only have to be able
> to use rudders and stick as you do in any plane on take off or landing.
> Always know where you wind it and your nose pointed and always being
> steered.
>
> Our daily temps near freezing now and performance is getting better. 100
> foot take offs the normal ?
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rex Shaw
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:51 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Tri gear or Tail dragger ?
>
>
> On 11/20/06, ramrod25 <r_wren@wfec.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have decided I definitaly want a tri-cycle gear stol airplane. My
> > concern is that the CH701 nosegear appears to be much more
> structurally
> > solid than the current Kitfox design. However, I think the Kitfox is
> a
> > better looking/performing airplane.
> >
> > Is the current Kitfox design strong enough to handle a large tire
> upfront
> > or will structural modifications be required.
> >
> > Your thoughts,
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rodney Wren
>
> Hi ! Rodney,
> you say you definitely want nose gear but you
> don't say why unless I missed it somewhere else.
> When I bought my Kitfox MKIV tail dragger I had
> trained in a Jabiru tri-cycle and most were
> telling me I should think the decision carefully.
> I guess some were stronger about it too. In fact I
> think no one fully supported my decision to go
> tail dragger. They all said it was much harder !
> I just wonder if this is something like what is making up your mind to
> go nose gear. If so now in hind sight I would say "Don't let it worry
> you." Sure one can handle a tri-cycle just fine and jump into a tail
> dragger and get in all sorts of tangles BUT with the RIGHT help it's
> really not that hard to sort the problem. Unfortunately you will
> always get different opinions on what exactly to do to fly a tail
> dragger and that only adds to the confusion. My experience since
> learning tail dragger is that the most common problem others are
> having is landing due to trying to do wheelers. Yes I know that's the
> only way some do it but I have found when they try 3 pointing instead
> with a bit of advice that all of a sudden they get it down just fine
> and their confidence increases dramatically.
> If you study your Basic Aircraft Knowledge you will see there is a lot
> of forces acting on a tail dragger more than tri-cycle. In the
> learning stage these can cause wild swings etc both on landing and
> take-off. However after you master it you probably won't even notice
> these. It's like taking off in a trike. The Jabiru pulled to the left
> but after a while I didn't even notice it. I was just correcting
> automatically. You will soon be doing the same in a dragger.
> I had a very good CFI friend help me and basically this is how we
> handled it. On take-off I initially held the tail down with full back
> stick to about 20 knots. This gives steering control. I then would go
> to neutral stick as I then had enough airflow over the the tail and
> due to the angle of attack with the tail down we would gently lift off
> just above stall. This meant we avoided most of the forces pulling the
> plane off line and so I quickly gained confidence. However as we
> lifted off just above stall we had to be very carefull and for this
> reason we soon progressed to a different aproach but I had gained
> confidence !
> Next I learnt to hold the tail down as before to about 20 knots but
> then instead of neutral stick go to slightly forward stick and lift
> the tail to achieve zero angle of attack. This way there is far less
> drag from the wings while I pickup speed to about 40 knots or so and
> then I gently pull back and up we go. Having gained confidence by the
> first method you can now handle the pulling forces fairly easilly.
> Now landings ! Right many will argue here re wheelers versus 3
> pointers but I'm going to stick my neck out here for 3 pointers
> because I am hopeless at wheelers anyway and in the cases where
> others have had trouble landing it's been because they are trying to
> do wheelers. OK I know when you can do them there is nothing to it
> but in the meantime I'm dead certain it's easier to 3 point my
> Kitfox at least. Really in my plane and other Kitfox's I know off
> all there is to it is "Get the stick hard back into the seat cushion
> without flaring high and before touch down. It won't bounce ! Not
> that it really is bouncing anyway, it's flying again due to angle of
> attack and being above stall.
> Now there is another point. You need to get good at steering with your
> feet. Just practice. In any case trying to steer a castoring nose
> wheel with brakes is surely harder at any sort of speed.
> So what I'm saying is don't pass the dragger because it appears to be
> a hard skill to master. It's not ! Also if you want stol that suggests
> you want to land in the rough somtimes. Well I'd far sooner be in a
> dragger thanks very much. You ask if structural mods are needed for a
> large tyre up front. Well I would imagine so but don't really know.
> however I do know I'd be far happier in the rough not pushing a nose
> wheel along in front. One can only hold it up for so long.
> Yes I agree with you a Kitfox is a special little plane compared to
> others. Even if I was in a position to change planes I would not stray
> far if at all from what I've got. I would suggest to you that if you
> go tail dragger Kitfox you really will be very glad on both the Kitfox
> and dragger decisions after only a short learning curve and then you
> will be having a lot of fun like the rest of us. Go for it and enjoy.
> That's what it is all about !
> Rex.
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger ? |
I echo exactly what Rex has said. I learned to fly....or should I say I
spent about 40 hours being trained to have lazy feet, in a 172, and was
doing ok, then I finished building my Kitfox, had it test flown for me,
then began receiving instruction in it. It is a taildragger, Model IV.
I had not soloed the 172 yet, due to my hours being spread out over too
many months. After a few more hours of training in my Kitfox, I was
ok'd for solo, and got that first flight alone in the cockpit out of
the way. Since then, I have received my Sport Pilot ticket, and now
have over 125 solo hours, including over 435 landings, all 3-pointers
except for a couple of wheelers, which were inadvertent, and all since
June of this year. I got my Sport Pilot ticket 5 days before I turned
70 years of age...if this old fart can do it, so can you!
Lynn
p.s. With a taildragger, you don't have to worry which of the nose
gears are the strongest.
On Wednesday, November 22, 2006, at 01:51 PM, Rex Shaw wrote:
> On 11/20/06, ramrod25 <r_wren@wfec.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have decided I definitaly want a tri-cycle gear stol airplane. My
> > concern is that the CH701 nosegear appears to be much more
> structurally
> > solid than the current Kitfox design. However, I think the Kitfox
> is a
> > better looking/performing airplane.
> >
> > Is the current Kitfox design strong enough to handle a large tire
> upfront
> > or will structural modifications be required.
> >
> > Your thoughts,
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rodney Wren
Message 31
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| Subject: | Need Muffler Source for Model IV 912 UL |
Would appreciate anyone on the list letting me know if you have a source
for a Model IV 912UL muffler.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Need Muffler Source for Model IV 912 UL |
You might want to look at what Just Aircraft supplies for the Highlander.
Its one muffler for each side. You end up with dual pipes and a nice
compact package.
Randy
.
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmie
Blackwell
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:33 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Need Muffler Source for Model IV 912 UL
Would appreciate anyone on the list letting me know if you have a source for
a Model IV 912UL muffler.
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