Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:49 AM - stits epoxy primer how-to? (Dave G.)
2. 11:38 AM - [Off-topic] Shadow - WAS: Which third wheel? (Michel Verheughe)
3. 11:42 AM - Re: Taildraggers (Michael Gibbs)
4. 11:43 AM - Re: Me (was: Tri gear or Tail dragger) (Michael Gibbs)
5. 11:45 AM - Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger (Michael Gibbs)
6. 11:45 AM - Re: Which third wheel (Michael Gibbs)
7. 12:33 PM - Re: Ever had this happen? (fox5flyer)
8. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Taildraggers (Lynn Matteson)
9. 01:11 PM - Re: Ever had this happen? (Don Smythe)
10. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Taildraggers (GAry Olson)
11. 04:41 PM - Re: Ever had this happen? (Lynn Matteson)
12. 05:51 PM - Re: stits epoxy primer how-to? (jeff puls)
13. 06:42 PM - Re: stits epoxy primer how-to? (jimcarriere)
14. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: stits epoxy primer how-to? (Grant Fluent)
15. 11:16 PM - Re: stits epoxy primer how-to? (Brian Leach)
16. 11:16 PM - Re: Ever had this happen? (kurt schrader)
17. 11:32 PM - Re: Re: Which third wheel (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | stits epoxy primer how-to? |
I have received the epoxy primer and read the application notes. it
doesn't appear to envision an application inside a 2.5" tube. I assume I
will mix up a batch and pour it inside and rock 'n roll the tube but
figured I'd ask anyone who had done it caveats, experiences etc.
Private mail responses please.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
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| Subject: | [Off-topic] Shadow - WAS: Which third wheel? |
On Nov 25, 2006, at 7:10 AM, kurt schrader wrote:
> One thing I always practice when flying is to try to
> land on my shadow. So far I've hit it every time the
> sun is out. :-)
I hear some pilots do it faster than their shadow - although this is in
contradiction with Einstein's relativity. Probably a damn quantum
mechanics dissident lie. :-)
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Taildraggers |
Charles sez:
>...There was no tri-cycle gear and so no intimidation about tail
>wheels...Several years later the Cessna came out with the tricycle
>gear. We referred to the taildragger as "conventional" gear vis a
>vis the tricycle.
Of course, if you go back a few years earlier than that you won't
find any tail-draggers, either. Airplanes had been around for a
couple of decades before the tail wheel became "conventional."
Curtiss, Langley, Dumont, the Wrights--few of their designs used
"conventional" gear until nearly the 1920s.
>My instructor was very careful to tell me at the 172 checkout that
>one had to be very careful as if the a tail wind caught the 172
>right it would tip it on the nose.
A quick check of the NTSB's record on ground accidents shows that
this is a very infrequent event. Your instructor's comments were
likely the result of his inexperience with this new-fangled
technology.
>...conventional...simply works better and does not really pose any
>more challenges than a tricycle.
The FAA requires pilots without prior tail wheel experience to have a
specific logbook endorsement to fly one. They must think a tail
wheel poses a little more challenge.
Certainly, people become comfortable with what they are familiar with
and often fear the unfamiliar. Those that have mastered any tricky
feat tend to forget the effort it took to learn it in the first place.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Me (was: Tri gear or Tail dragger) |
Randy sez:
>...for me, I like the tailwheel for the fun.
That's the best reason to make a landing gear choice--because it's
what YOU want!
My original comments were aimed at those who felt the original poster
should provide his reasoning for making HIS choice. I'm truly
thankful that we all don't share the same preferences on every
topic--what a boring world it would be!
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tri gear or Tail dragger |
Lowell sez:
>During this taxi, a hole that was not seen in the previous
>inspection swallowed his nose wheel and he had a pretty major prop
>strike!
Yes, I remember that story, Lowell. It isn't hard to imagine a hole
swallowing the main gear of a tail wheeled Kitfox, either. That kind
of situation could cause the fuselage to drop enough to cause a prop
strike. If the speed was high enough, it could easily cause the nose
to hit or cause the plane to pivot around the trapped wheel.
Each design has advantages and disadvantages and there are certainly
scenarios that would incapacitate any airplane. The story you
related underscores the notion that even when we do everything right,
things can still go wrong.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Which third wheel |
Kurt sez:
>One thing I always practice when flying is to try to land on my
>shadow. So far I've hit it every time the sun is out. :-)
It's this type of devotion to honing one's skills that makes someone
an expert pilot!
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ever had this happen? |
Regarding these Purolator fuel filters, I seem to recall some time
back about a member who was having similar flow problems and also had
the same filters. Upon dismantling the filters he found them to be
partially plugged with tiny fibers that he determined to have come
from the wing tanks and were inhibiting the fuel flow. They were
possibly fiberglass fibers, but that wasn't confirmed as I recall.
He replaced the filters and no more problems. This happened several
years ago. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on it.
Deke
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ever had this happen?
>Don-
> I have almost exactly the same configuration as you, except that I
>can't see my horizontal 3rd filter. It is under my center
>console...maybe I should install a window to have a look at it
>occasionally. That one is after the main shutoff and the aux.
>electric
>pump, which I never/rarely ever use. It's a Facet, and it allows
>gravity flow through it...or perhaps more properly, allows the
>engine's
>mechanical pump to pull through it, although it does flow through via
>
>gravity. All 3 filters are 5/16" in my system.
>
>Lynn
>On Friday, November 24, 2006, at 05:11 PM, Don Smythe wrote:
>
>>
>> Lynn,
>> I have the clear glass Purolator filters on each wing tank.
>They
>> are mounted vertically and always show just a tad of vapor
>(appearing
>> not quite full). I have a third Purolator mounted horizontal
>between
>> the main shutoff and the carbs. Since that one is mounted
>horizontal,
>> it always shows more vapor than the vertical ones. I strongly
>believe
>> this to be a case of vapor in auto gas.
>> After seeing my hanger mates lawn mower completely quit due to
>> vapor lock it has always made me a little concerned that a Kitfox
>> system could do the same thing. I feel it has something to do with
>
>> the physical size of the filter and/or possible location in the
>line.
>> I don't think the vent on the header has anything to do with this
>type
>> situation. You can fly safely with the header vent shut off
>> completely (Avids did/do). As long as the filler caps are
>supplying
>> air to the wing tanks and there are no obstruction in the lines,
>fuel
>> should flow (except for maybe vapor lock)???
>>
>> Don Smythe
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson"
><lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 4:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ever had this happen?
>>
>>
>>
>> I've seen this happen too, Don....the half-full clear filter thing,
>> that is. I expected to see this on my plane with a clear filter in
>the
>> supply lines from each wing tank. But they are both very full and
>very
>> clear. I'm sure it has something to do with the venting of the
>header
>> tank up to the wing tank. This vent line on my plane is full of
>fuel,
>> and will be as long as fuel is present in the tanks, and the
>shutoff
>> valves in each supply line is open. I have just gone over 200 hours
>on
>> my plane, and no problems yet...knocking on wood. : )
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>> On Friday, November 24, 2006, at 04:14 PM, Don Smythe wrote:
>>
>>> Michael,
>>> First, do every thing that Lowell said. If you have the MIL-6000
>>> black rubber fuel line, replace it before you do anything else. If
>
>>> every thing works out to be good with no obstructions, consider
>Vapor
>>> Lock. I worked on my hanger mates riding lawn mower recently. His
>>> fuel tank will be at about 1/2 and the engine goes dead. The fuel
>>> filter is empty. Take off the inlet line to the filter and fuel
>>> starts to flow freely. Reconnect to filter and the engine will
>start
>>> and run the rest of the fuel. Happens every time without fail. For
>
>>> some reason, his system is vapor locking and I haven't had a
>chance
>>> to figure it out.
>>> Auto fuel is much more likely to vapor lock than 100LL. Look at
>any
>>> clear filter on your car or lawnmower and it will always appear
>half
>>> full of fuel. The other half which looks like air is vapor. You
>may
>>> have some strange vapor locking like my hanger mates lawnmower. I
>>> think his problem has something to do with the large body fuel
>filter
>>> that's installed or it's location to the fuel tank. Like I said,
>do
>>> all Lowell said and then consider a strange vapor locking problem.
>>>
>>> Don Smythe
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: MA Stanard
>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 9:25 AM
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ever had this happen?
>>>
>>> Oh Wisdom of the List, I call upon your knowledge!
>>>
>>>
>>> Right wing shows 3 gallons thru the sight tube, but the fuel
>filter
>>> is empty. Does any one know why this could be? Is there gas
>baffled
>>> in one section of the tank that does not reach? I am unfamiliar
>with
>>> what the tank looks like since I am not the builder. The fuel
>filters
>>> also seem to have a hard time filling up in flight and only stay
>half
>>> full when flying. I can watch the gas coming in but most times it
>>> seems to be only a trickle.
>>>
>>> Any solutions or suggestions?
>>>
>>> Michael Stanard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
WebMail Express+ - http://www.i-star.com Internet Access from $7.95
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Taildraggers |
I wonder if the FAA required a similar endorsement when the tricycle
gear first came out? After all, pilots up until then had ONLY
taildragger experience.
Lynn
On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 02:42 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
>
> The FAA requires pilots without prior tail wheel experience to have a
> specific logbook endorsement to fly one. They must think a tail wheel
> poses a little more challenge.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ever had this happen? |
Deke,
I recall that report. As I remember, the person who reported said they
were fiberglass fragments that were invisible in the filters with fuel.
Good reason to change filters "frequently" during the first few tanks of
fuel. I think this problem would have developed with just about any type
filters.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@i-star.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ever had this happen?
>
>
> Regarding these Purolator fuel filters, I seem to recall some time
> back about a member who was having similar flow problems and also had
> the same filters.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Taildraggers |
I am wearing out my DELETE button on all of this repeat tri-gear/tailwheel drivel.
In my humble opinion it is very simple. Get some time in both types then make
your decision on what you want to fly, then do it. Time to move on, this horse
is dead!!
Gary Olson
Series 7 trigear
do not archive
----- Original Message ----
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 2:36:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Taildraggers
I wonder if the FAA required a similar endorsement when the tricycle
gear first came out? After all, pilots up until then had ONLY
taildragger experience.
Lynn
On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 02:42 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
>
> The FAA requires pilots without prior tail wheel experience to have a
> specific logbook endorsement to fly one. They must think a tail wheel
> poses a little more challenge.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ever had this happen? |
I recall reading that, Deke. I think that was about the time I got
nervous and called Frank Miller and got the lowdown on flushing and
Kreeming my tanks, which I did. I've used the Purolator filters in
everything from a Ford tractor to a lawn mower to my airplane, and
loved every one of them. In the case of the tiny fibers, they would
have clogged any type of filter, I think, and just having Purolator
filters wouldn't have caused the problem, I don't think. In effect, the
Purolator filters act in a similar fashion to the finger strainers in
our wings...they provide a large area of surface in which to trap
contaminants, and in most cases, the contaminants can be seen...not so
with the tiny fibers from that members' experience, it sounds.
Lynn
On Saturday, November 25, 2006, at 03:41 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
>
> Regarding these Purolator fuel filters, I seem to recall some time
> back about a member who was having similar flow problems and also had
> the same filters. Upon dismantling the filters he found them to be
> partially plugged with tiny fibers that he determined to have come
> from the wing tanks and were inhibiting the fuel flow. They were
> possibly fiberglass fibers, but that wasn't confirmed as I recall.
> He replaced the filters and no more problems. This happened several
> years ago. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on it.
> Deke
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ever had this happen?
> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 17:34:40 -0500
>
>> Don-
>> I have almost exactly the same configuration as you, except that I
>> can't see my horizontal 3rd filter. It is under my center
>> console...maybe I should install a window to have a look at it
>> occasionally. That one is after the main shutoff and the aux.
>> electric
>> pump, which I never/rarely ever use. It's a Facet, and it allows
>> gravity flow through it...or perhaps more properly, allows the
>> engine's
>> mechanical pump to pull through it, although it does flow through via
>>
>> gravity. All 3 filters are 5/16" in my system.
>>
>> Lynn
>
>> On Friday, November 24, 2006, at 05:11 PM, Don Smythe wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Lynn,
>>> I have the clear glass Purolator filters on each wing tank.
>> They
>>> are mounted vertically and always show just a tad of vapor
>> (appearing
>>> not quite full). I have a third Purolator mounted horizontal
>> between
>>> the main shutoff and the carbs. Since that one is mounted
>> horizontal,
>>> it always shows more vapor than the vertical ones. I strongly
>> believe
>>> this to be a case of vapor in auto gas.
>>> After seeing my hanger mates lawn mower completely quit due to
>>> vapor lock it has always made me a little concerned that a Kitfox
>>> system could do the same thing. I feel it has something to do with
>>
>>> the physical size of the filter and/or possible location in the
>> line.
>>> I don't think the vent on the header has anything to do with this
>> type
>>> situation. You can fly safely with the header vent shut off
>>> completely (Avids did/do). As long as the filler caps are
>> supplying
>>> air to the wing tanks and there are no obstruction in the lines,
>> fuel
>>> should flow (except for maybe vapor lock)???
>>>
>>> Don Smythe
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson"
>> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 4:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ever had this happen?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've seen this happen too, Don....the half-full clear filter thing,
>>> that is. I expected to see this on my plane with a clear filter in
>> the
>>> supply lines from each wing tank. But they are both very full and
>> very
>>> clear. I'm sure it has something to do with the venting of the
>> header
>>> tank up to the wing tank. This vent line on my plane is full of
>> fuel,
>>> and will be as long as fuel is present in the tanks, and the
>> shutoff
>>> valves in each supply line is open. I have just gone over 200 hours
>> on
>>> my plane, and no problems yet...knocking on wood. : )
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> On Friday, November 24, 2006, at 04:14 PM, Don Smythe wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael,
>>>> First, do every thing that Lowell said. If you have the MIL-6000
>>>> black rubber fuel line, replace it before you do anything else. If
>>
>>>> every thing works out to be good with no obstructions, consider
>> Vapor
>>>> Lock. I worked on my hanger mates riding lawn mower recently. His
>>>> fuel tank will be at about 1/2 and the engine goes dead. The fuel
>>>> filter is empty. Take off the inlet line to the filter and fuel
>>>> starts to flow freely. Reconnect to filter and the engine will
>> start
>>>> and run the rest of the fuel. Happens every time without fail. For
>>
>>>> some reason, his system is vapor locking and I haven't had a
>> chance
>>>> to figure it out.
>>>> Auto fuel is much more likely to vapor lock than 100LL. Look at
>> any
>>>> clear filter on your car or lawnmower and it will always appear
>> half
>>>> full of fuel. The other half which looks like air is vapor. You
>> may
>>>> have some strange vapor locking like my hanger mates lawnmower. I
>>>> think his problem has something to do with the large body fuel
>> filter
>>>> that's installed or it's location to the fuel tank. Like I said,
>> do
>>>> all Lowell said and then consider a strange vapor locking problem.
>>>>
>>>> Don Smythe
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: MA Stanard
>>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 9:25 AM
>>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Ever had this happen?
>>>>
>>>> Oh Wisdom of the List, I call upon your knowledge!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right wing shows 3 gallons thru the sight tube, but the fuel
>> filter
>>>> is empty. Does any one know why this could be? Is there gas
>> baffled
>>>> in one section of the tank that does not reach? I am unfamiliar
>> with
>>>> what the tank looks like since I am not the builder. The fuel
>> filters
>>>> also seem to have a hard time filling up in flight and only stay
>> half
>>>> full when flying. I can watch the gas coming in but most times it
>>>> seems to be only a trickle.
>>>>
>>>> Any solutions or suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> Michael Stanard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> WebMail Express+ - http://www.i-star.com Internet Access from $7.95
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: stits epoxy primer how-to? |
Dave,
I think I anodized the inside of mine. I put tennis balls in the end and
sloshed them for quite a while. I did epoxy primer the outside. I have
to check my logs. If you do primer don't mix it real thick. The memory
is a funny thing. Jeff Classic IV
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 11:48 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: stits epoxy primer how-to?
I have received the epoxy primer and read the application notes. it
doesn't appear to envision an application inside a 2.5" tube. I assume I
will mix up a batch and pour it inside and rock 'n roll the tube but
figured I'd ask anyone who had done it caveats, experiences etc.
Private mail responses please.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: stits epoxy primer how-to? |
Prepare to make a mess: the primer will want to leak past the tennis ball plugs
and around the rivet holes. Covering the rivets with masking tape may limit
but probably not eliminate this. When it flows out of one end of the spar (once
you have finished sloshing and want to recover the extra liquid), it comes
out with a vengeance. In spite of a wide funnel and my best efforts, I managed
to paint a large part of my garage floor.
Either ventilate your workshop, wear at least a charcoal mask, or better yet both.
Also wear rubber gloves with this stuff.
Jim in NW FL
Series 7 in progress
--------
Jim in NW FL
Kitfox Series 7 in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76965#76965
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: stits epoxy primer how-to? |
When I sloshed the inside of my spars with primer, I
used ziplock bags fastened to the spar ends with
rubber bands to catch the primer as it drained. I
still had some leakage around the rivets but the bags
on the ends didn't lose a drop.
Grant Fluent
--- jimcarriere <jimcarriere@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <jimcarriere@yahoo.com>
>
> Prepare to make a mess: the primer will want to leak
> past the tennis ball plugs and around the rivet
> holes. Covering the rivets with masking tape may
> limit but probably not eliminate this. When it
> flows out of one end of the spar (once you have
> finished sloshing and want to recover the extra
> liquid), it comes out with a vengeance. In spite of
> a wide funnel and my best efforts, I managed to
> paint a large part of my garage floor.
>
> Either ventilate your workshop, wear at least a
> charcoal mask, or better yet both. Also wear rubber
> gloves with this stuff.
>
>
> Jim in NW FL
> Series 7 in progress
>
> --------
> Jim in NW FL
> Kitfox Series 7 in progress
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76965#76965
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
> Admin.
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: stits epoxy primer how-to? |
Dave
Get a 12 foot length of very thin aluminium tube and bend a right angle
at the end of it and glue the spray nozzle from an aerosol paint can
into it. Then get a couple of aerosol cans of epoxy primer and attach
to the other end of the tube with the thin plastic tube that comes with
a spray can of CRC. Worked perfectly to paint the spars of my Avid.
Brian
New Zealand
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Ever had this happen? |
Hi Michael,
One thing I didn't see mentioned is for you to do a
gravity flow check to make sure you have plenty of
fuel flow without the pump. This is usually part of
the testing before initial flight. You need to
disconnect the fuel line before the carb(s) and time
the flow rate in gallons per minute. Make sure it is
flowing fast enough to feed the engine. Not a good
idea to count on a single pump to keep the engine
running.
One of the accidents I read about before flying mine
was a crash that resulted from a wire coming off a
fuel pump on takeoff. Engine went rapidly lean,
banged once and quit. KitFox crashed for one broken
wire joint!
I put in 2 pumps and did a flow check as well. Still
don't like my system, so I will rebuild it and check
it for more reliability.
You should check yours and fix any obstructions, if
the flow is too slow by gravity. Trace the system
backwards from the carbs and fix everything that stops
the fuel. In your case, there is certainly something
slowing the flow before the filter, so fix that. But
test the system at the carb too and make sure there
isn't any more problems down stream.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- MA Stanard <cgod@cebridge.net> wrote:
> Oh Wisdom of the List, I call upon your knowledge!
> Right wing shows 3 gallons thru the sight tube, but
> the fuel filter is empty. Does any one know why
> this could be? Is there gas baffled in one section
> of the tank that does not reach? I am unfamiliar
> with what the tank looks like since I am not the
> builder. The fuel filters also seem to have a hard
> time filling up in flight and only stay half full
> when flying. I can watch the gas coming in but most
> times it seems to be only a trickle.
>
> Any solutions or suggestions?
>
> Michael Stanard
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Which third wheel |
Yes, at my age I can count on being an ex-pert. I
used to have vast knowledge of flying. Forgot so much
that today my friends say I am half-vast. ;-)
Just when I think I know everything, someone on this
list proves me wrong. Glad I signed up long ago for
my continuing education.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net> wrote:
> Kurt sez:
>
> >One thing I always practice when flying is to try
> to land on my
> >shadow. So far I've hit it every time the sun is
> out. :-)
>
> It's this type of devotion to honing one's skills
> that makes someone an expert pilot!
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
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