Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:08 AM - Re: Subaru EA-81 (avtar412)
2. 12:14 AM - Re: type of fuel (avtar412)
3. 04:09 AM - Re: Beacon? Strobe? (Dan Billingsley)
4. 04:18 AM - Re: Beacon? Strobe? (Fox5flyer)
5. 06:49 AM - EA-81 fuel (Peter Graichen)
6. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: type of fuel (kirk hull)
7. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: type of fuel (Andrew Matthaey)
8. 10:49 AM - Re: EA-81 fuel (Clem Nichols)
9. 11:29 AM - Re: Failure Point (Jerry Liles)
10. 01:24 PM - Re: EA-81 fuel (Noel Loveys)
11. 02:34 PM - Re: Failure Point (Lowell Fitt)
12. 02:48 PM - Re: Failure Point (dave)
13. 02:58 PM - Re: Failure Point (Lynn Matteson)
14. 04:30 PM - Re: Failure Point (PWilson)
15. 04:31 PM - Re: Failure Point (jimcarriere)
16. 04:59 PM - Re: Failure Point (Don Smythe)
17. 05:09 PM - Re: Failure Point (dave)
18. 05:29 PM - Re: Failure Point (Lowell Fitt)
19. 06:23 PM - Re: Failure Point (dave)
20. 06:27 PM - Re: Failure Point (Jerry Liles)
21. 08:10 PM - Re: Failure Point (Noel Loveys)
22. 11:06 PM - Overdue plane (ron schick)
23. 11:09 PM - Re: type of fuel (avtar412)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Subaru EA-81 |
I have a water to oil cooler and 2 tubes through the sump with good airflow and
have no trouble with cooling. Turbo as well. Radiator, I started with NSI brass
unit but had to go to a purpose built aluminum unit and cools well now. 750mm
x 250 x 80 deep.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78597#78597
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: type of fuel |
Me too, avgas in car engines in the past. So long as the engine runs at operating
temp ok. Don't use fully synthetic oil.
I use a mixture of Avgas and motor spirit in my EA81 and no bothers.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78598#78598
Message 3
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Kirk,
I am getting my LED's from http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm
There are some good places on the web that help with how-to applications such as this one that has a calculator to determine the resistors used http://metku.net/index.html?sect=view&n=1&path=mods/ledcalc/index_eng
I have ordered several LED's to experiment with on small circuit boards. Will
let all know how it goes.
Dan
kirk hull <kirkhull@kc.rr.com> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I had the same feeling
and gutted the fixture and made a micarda insert that holds a 20 w halogen
bulb from the auto parts store ($1.50). The actual wheelen parts came from a
junk pile at the local shop. LEDs would work great inside this type of fixture
as they do not but out as much heat. Where are you getting your LEDs and how
big are they?
---------------------------------
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:26 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Beacon? Strobe?
Kirk,
Thanks for the idea. I just can't stand the thought of paying Whellen $300
for a friken lightbulb. I found a source for high intensity LED's and plan to
see what I can develop.
Dan
kirk hull <kirkhull@kc.rr.com> wrote:
I made mine out of a tail light assembly with a wing tip lens and a heavy-duty
turn signal flasher.
---------------------------------
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:15 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Beacon? Strobe?
Has anyone found or know of a low profile beacon that could be fit to the
top of the vertical Stab? What are others doing for this? I have a 912s, so the
Amp draw needs to be kept low.
Still Building
Thanks,
Dan B
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.kitlog.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.kitlog.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Beacon? Strobe? |
Thanks Ron. I understand now.
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Beacon? Strobe?
> Deke I'll post an after picture. The funnel sits pointing downward as if
in
> use. the flat top is where the base of the light attaches. The spout and
> part of the sides get cut off to form a channel which drops over the
> vertical stab. Place plastic barrier over stab, then place funnel over,
> then fill with epoxy. Remove, sand paint, walla. Sorry I don't have a
> close up, but it flares to a flat spot like a Cessna. Ron NB Ore
Message 5
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I have used nothing but 100LL av-fuel in over 1000 hrs of operation in my
NSI EA-81 Subaru without any problems.
Peter Graichen
http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: type of fuel |
What is the problem with synthetic oil?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of avtar412
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:10 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: type of fuel
Me too, avgas in car engines in the past. So long as the engine runs at
operating temp ok. Don't use fully synthetic oil.
I use a mixture of Avgas and motor spirit in my EA81 and no bothers.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78598#78598
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: type of fuel |
I've heard the Subaru's and VW's really, really don't like being run in
engines that also burn AvGas?? I know Mark here on the list saw some nasty
side effects of using the two...promptly switched back to mineral-based.
Andrew
CFI/CFII/MEI
ERJ-145 Training
KF3
>From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: type of fuel
>Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 09:14:54 -0600
>
>
>What is the problem with synthetic oil?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of avtar412
>Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:10 AM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: type of fuel
>
>
>Me too, avgas in car engines in the past. So long as the engine runs at
>operating temp ok. Don't use fully synthetic oil.
>I use a mixture of Avgas and motor spirit in my EA81 and no bothers.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78598#78598
>
>
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Message 8
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Peter:
Did you use any type of lead scavinger?
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:48 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: EA-81 fuel
>
> I have used nothing but 100LL av-fuel in over 1000 hrs of operation in my
> NSI EA-81 Subaru without any problems.
> Peter Graichen
> http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on the
rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends are
used in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the loads. Kitfox
had some problems with rod ends failing in tail struts and finally went
to beefier rod ends or simple struts for the tail. Using straight
struts in the Avid left little room for error but resulted in a stronger
wing and tail.
Jerry Liles
Rex Shaw wrote:
> Where did it fail ?
> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the
> Avids
> they do not use rod ends.
> Dave
>
> Dave,
> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it for
> gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end but also
> here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough copies of
> Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry through tube and
> there is an AD out for that. I understand they have a weaker tube,
> maybe wall thickness not sure !
> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends. What
> do they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video copied
> by Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a copy could
> first check with Grant that this is on the Video then buy a copy from
> him. I remember his price was extremely reasonable and there was a lot
> of interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops and rolls in a Kitfox.
>
> Rex.
>
>
Message 10
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I think I know what a lead scavenger is but how does it work.....
Physically or chemically???
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Clem Nichols
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:12 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EA-81 fuel
>
>
>
> Peter:
>
> Did you use any type of lead scavinger?
>
> Clem Nichols
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:48 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: EA-81 fuel
>
>
> <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
> >
> > I have used nothing but 100LL av-fuel in over 1000 hrs of
> operation in my
> > NSI EA-81 Subaru without any problems.
> > Peter Graichen
> > http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Jerry,
Interesting.
I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut and it
is part of my preflight check.
Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox design
with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have been no
structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful use, would there
be a reason to change the design?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
> Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on the
> rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends are used
> in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the loads. Kitfox had
> some problems with rod ends failing in tail struts and finally went to
> beefier rod ends or simple struts for the tail. Using straight struts in
> the Avid left little room for error but resulted in a stronger wing and
> tail.
> Jerry Liles
>
> Rex Shaw wrote:
>
>> Where did it fail ?
>> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the
>> Avids
>> they do not use rod ends.
>> Dave
>> Dave,
>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it for
>> gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end but also
>> here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough copies of
>> Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry through tube and
>> there is an AD out for that. I understand they have a weaker tube, maybe
>> wall thickness not sure !
>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends. What do
>> they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video copied by
>> Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a copy could first
>> check with Grant that this is on the Video then buy a copy from him. I
>> remember his price was extremely reasonable and there was a lot of
>> interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops and rolls in a Kitfox.
>>
>> Rex.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Lowell,
I agree on the horiz stab rod ends being ok. I think alot of the problem
might have been from the pilot pulling on it rather than the grab handle ?
As far as the wings, I agree they seem strong but the idea for 2 rod ends
on the strut if probably to make up for builing errors if any as well as
adjustment. . I have not heard of them coming apart but I have broken them
on other applications. They are tiny compared to GA aircraft. That being
said, has ther ever been an in flight breakup of a Kitfox ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
> Jerry,
>
> Interesting.
>
> I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut and
> it is part of my preflight check.
>
> Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox design
> with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have been no
> structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful use, would
> there be a reason to change the design?
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
>
>>
>> Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on the
>> rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends are used
>> in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the loads. Kitfox had
>> some problems with rod ends failing in tail struts and finally went to
>> beefier rod ends or simple struts for the tail. Using straight struts in
>> the Avid left little room for error but resulted in a stronger wing and
>> tail.
>> Jerry Liles
>>
>> Rex Shaw wrote:
>>
>>> Where did it fail ?
>>> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>>> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the
>>> Avids
>>> they do not use rod ends.
>>> Dave
>>> Dave,
>>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it for
>>> gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end but also
>>> here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough copies of
>>> Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry through tube and
>>> there is an AD out for that. I understand they have a weaker tube, maybe
>>> wall thickness not sure !
>>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends. What do
>>> they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video copied by
>>> Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a copy could first
>>> check with Grant that this is on the Video then buy a copy from him. I
>>> remember his price was extremely reasonable and there was a lot of
>>> interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops and rolls in a Kitfox.
>>>
>>> Rex.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
I bought the 1/4" threaded stud inserts to fit those forward hort. stab
struts, and welded them in, fitted the 1/4" rod ends and have had no
problems in over 200 hrs of flight, and like Lowell, check them prior
to, and after each day of flying.
Lynn
On Saturday, December 2, 2006, at 05:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
> Jerry,
>
> Interesting.
>
> I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut
> and it is part of my preflight check.
>
> Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox
> design with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have
> been no structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful
> use, would there be a reason to change the design?
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
>
>>
>> Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on
>> the rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends
>> are used in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the loads.
>> Kitfox had some problems with rod ends failing in tail struts and
>> finally went to beefier rod ends or simple struts for the tail.
>> Using straight struts in the Avid left little room for error but
>> resulted in a stronger wing and tail.
>> Jerry Liles
>>
>> Rex Shaw wrote:
>>
>>> Where did it fail ?
>>> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>>> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the
>>> Avids
>>> they do not use rod ends.
>>> Dave
>>> Dave,
>>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it
>>> for gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end
>>> but also here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough
>>> copies of Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry
>>> through tube and there is an AD out for that. I understand they have
>>> a weaker tube, maybe wall thickness not sure !
>>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends. What
>>> do they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video
>>> copied by Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a
>>> copy could first check with Grant that this is on the Video then buy
>>> a copy from him. I remember his price was extremely reasonable and
>>> there was a lot of interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops and
>>> rolls in a Kitfox.
>>> Rex.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Yes there have been failure on teh horizontal strut. Don't know how
many but the archives had the info.
The construction Skystar used was a #10x32 socket head cap screw
welded in the end of the 3/8"x0.020" tube. Not an aircraft method but
a short cut to avoid buying the correct AN490(?) tube end
fitting. As shocking as it is surprisingly only a few failed.
probably due to excess heat on the hardened cap screw.
BTW, there is no way improper handling could break a #10x30 cap screw
-For sure.
Most of us that did the mod to the AN part used 1/4x28 AN part and
plug welded it as well as seam welded it to the end of the tube. The
cost to do the upgrade is minimal - just the AN tube end and the
appropriate rod end. My welder charged me $10 after I prepped the
parts. Shortening the rod is required to get the same length as before.
Its very wise to keep checking for the failure.
Regards, Paul
===============
At 02:33 PM 12/2/2006, you wrote:
>
>Jerry,
>
>Interesting.
>
>I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut
>and it is part of my preflight check.
>
>Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox
>design with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have
>been no structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful
>use, would there be a reason to change the design?
>
>Lowell
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
>
>>
>>Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on
>>the rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod
>>ends are used in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the
>>loads. Kitfox had some problems with rod ends failing in tail
>>struts and finally went to beefier rod ends or simple struts for
>>the tail. Using straight struts in the Avid left little room for
>>error but resulted in a stronger wing and tail.
>>Jerry Liles
>>
>>Rex Shaw wrote:
>>
>>>Where did it fail ?
>>>The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>>>Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the Avids
>>>they do not use rod ends.
>>> Dave
>>> Dave,
>>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take
>>> it for gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod
>>> end but also here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are
>>> rough copies of Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the
>>> carry through tube and there is an AD out for that. I understand
>>> they have a weaker tube, maybe wall thickness not sure !
>>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends.
>>> What do they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video
>>> copied by Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a
>>> copy could first check with Grant that this is on the Video then
>>> buy a copy from him. I remember his price was extremely
>>> reasonable and there was a lot of interesting stuff on the DVD
>>> copy like loops and rolls in a Kitfox.
>>>Rex.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
My 7 uses 3/8" rod ends at each end of the wing struts. That is, the long threaded
part of the rod is 3/8x24 (UNF), that attaches to the strut. The ball has
a 1/4" hole, a 1/4" bolt attaches that to a bracket (and the bracket is attached
to the wing spar).
Those rod ends are pretty substantial...
Jim in NW FL
Series 7 in progress
--------
Jim in NW FL
Kitfox Series 7 in progress
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78733#78733
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Just a thought, once the horizontal stabilizers are adjusted for proper
flight why not replace the horizontal struts with "fixed" units. That is,
replace with tubing with crimped ends and no rod ends to break.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
> I bought the 1/4" threaded stud inserts to fit those forward hort. stab
> struts, and welded them in, fitted the 1/4" rod ends and have had no
> problems in over 200 hrs of flight, and like Lowell, check them prior to,
> and after each day of flying.
>
> Lynn
> On Saturday, December 2, 2006, at 05:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>> I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut and
>> it is part of my preflight check.
>>
>> Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox
>> design with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have been
>> no structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful use, would
>> there be a reason to change the design?
>>
>> Lowell
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on the
>>> rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends are
>>> used in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the loads. Kitfox
>>> had some problems with rod ends failing in tail struts and finally went
>>> to beefier rod ends or simple struts for the tail. Using straight
>>> struts in the Avid left little room for error but resulted in a stronger
>>> wing and tail.
>>> Jerry Liles
>>>
>>> Rex Shaw wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where did it fail ?
>>>> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>>>> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the
>>>> Avids
>>>> they do not use rod ends.
>>>> Dave
>>>> Dave,
>>>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it for
>>>> gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end but also
>>>> here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough copies of
>>>> Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry through tube and
>>>> there is an AD out for that. I understand they have a weaker tube,
>>>> maybe wall thickness not sure !
>>>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends. What do
>>>> they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>>>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video copied
>>>> by Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a copy could
>>>> first check with Grant that this is on the Video then buy a copy from
>>>> him. I remember his price was extremely reasonable and there was a lot
>>>> of interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops and rolls in a Kitfox.
>>>> Rex.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Don, You would have to get the hole drilled perfect in that case.
I drop the front of my horiz. stab when floats go on and have to adjust a
few timesto get hands free flights.
Same thing going back to wheels in fall. Ski season approaching soon. :)
BTW Don I saw your Fox on Barnstormers. Looks great !! Surprising how
these Kitfox sell so cheap and at a fraction of a new Kit. Yours only has
150 hours? Good deal for some one.
If anyone looking fora 582 Amphib fox there is one there as well on Aerocet
floats for 25k . Flaots worth about 8k alone. Great deal
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
> Just a thought, once the horizontal stabilizers are adjusted for proper
> flight why not replace the horizontal struts with "fixed" units. That
> is, replace with tubing with crimped ends and no rod ends to break.
>
> Don Smythe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 5:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
>
>>
>> I bought the 1/4" threaded stud inserts to fit those forward hort. stab
>> struts, and welded them in, fitted the 1/4" rod ends and have had no
>> problems in over 200 hrs of flight, and like Lowell, check them prior to,
>> and after each day of flying.
>>
>> Lynn
>> On Saturday, December 2, 2006, at 05:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Jerry,
>>>
>>> Interesting.
>>>
>>> I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut and
>>> it is part of my preflight check.
>>>
>>> Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox
>>> design with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have been
>>> no structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful use,
>>> would there be a reason to change the design?
>>>
>>> Lowell
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on the
>>>> rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends are
>>>> used in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the loads.
>>>> Kitfox had some problems with rod ends failing in tail struts and
>>>> finally went to beefier rod ends or simple struts for the tail. Using
>>>> straight struts in the Avid left little room for error but resulted in
>>>> a stronger wing and tail.
>>>> Jerry Liles
>>>>
>>>> Rex Shaw wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Where did it fail ?
>>>>> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>>>>> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the
>>>>> Avids
>>>>> they do not use rod ends.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it for
>>>>> gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end but also
>>>>> here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough copies of
>>>>> Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry through tube and
>>>>> there is an AD out for that. I understand they have a weaker tube,
>>>>> maybe wall thickness not sure !
>>>>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends. What
>>>>> do they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>>>>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video copied
>>>>> by Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a copy could
>>>>> first check with Grant that this is on the Video then buy a copy from
>>>>> him. I remember his price was extremely reasonable and there was a lot
>>>>> of interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops and rolls in a Kitfox.
>>>>> Rex.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Never!
And the horizontal strut faillures were discovered post flight.
I dare say that if we went through the design we could find lots of stuff
that just doesn't "look" right. I think of the Rans with their construction
methods, a take off from the ultralight design. Lots of brackets and bolts
holding things together and their new stamped aluminum wing ribs - flimsy
compared to the Kitfox design. Maybe the Kitfox is overdesigned and heavy
as a reslult, but I like the history. I have been in some pretty heavy
stuff, once in a flight of six flying over the Sawtooth Mountains of Idaho
on our way to Smiley Creek - elev 7200 ft. - we did a quick 180 because we
got tired of our heads banging on the skylight. Once in the middle of Nevada
one of the guys inadvertently flew through a dust devil - no visible dust -
and had a real ride, but other than having his headset knocked off his head
and a good case of the shakes, no harm done.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
> Lowell,
>
> I agree on the horiz stab rod ends being ok. I think alot of the
> problem might have been from the pilot pulling on it rather than the grab
> handle ?
>
> As far as the wings, I agree they seem strong but the idea for 2 rod ends
> on the strut if probably to make up for builing errors if any as well as
> adjustment. . I have not heard of them coming apart but I have broken
> them on other applications. They are tiny compared to GA aircraft. That
> being said, has ther ever been an in flight breakup of a Kitfox ?
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 5:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
>
>>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>> I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut and
>> it is part of my preflight check.
>>
>> Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox
>> design with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have been
>> no structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful use, would
>> there be a reason to change the design?
>>
>> Lowell
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on the
>>> rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends are
>>> used in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the loads. Kitfox
>>> had some problems with rod ends failing in tail struts and finally went
>>> to beefier rod ends or simple struts for the tail. Using straight
>>> struts in the Avid left little room for error but resulted in a stronger
>>> wing and tail.
>>> Jerry Liles
>>>
>>> Rex Shaw wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where did it fail ?
>>>> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>>>> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the
>>>> Avids
>>>> they do not use rod ends.
>>>> Dave
>>>> Dave,
>>>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it for
>>>> gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end but also
>>>> here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough copies of
>>>> Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry through tube and
>>>> there is an AD out for that. I understand they have a weaker tube,
>>>> maybe wall thickness not sure !
>>>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends. What do
>>>> they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>>>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video copied
>>>> by Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a copy could
>>>> first check with Grant that this is on the Video then buy a copy from
>>>> him. I remember his price was extremely reasonable and there was a lot
>>>> of interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops and rolls in a Kitfox.
>>>>
>>>> Rex.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Good to know Lowell. I too like the design of the Kitfox and have found it
a easy adaptable airplane to fly.
What happened on the horiz stab issue ? Were they broken from tugging on
them ?
As far as heavy , I think that any plane can get heavy in a hurry from all
the add on as well as engine choices.
In my opinion the Kitfox is one of the best on the market if not the best.
Not to mention best bang for the buck on the used market. I am lost to
understand whatd folks like about Challenger, Beavers and Chinnook planes
but they are very popular and some really hold the mkt value for some reason
that I will never understand.
I think if a guy bought up 1 mil $ worth of used Kitfoxes that he could see
at least 50% return over the next few years and if not he would have a nice
collection of toys.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
> Never!
>
> And the horizontal strut faillures were discovered post flight.
>
> I dare say that if we went through the design we could find lots of stuff
> that just doesn't "look" right. I think of the Rans with their
> construction methods, a take off from the ultralight design. Lots of
> brackets and bolts holding things together and their new stamped aluminum
> wing ribs - flimsy compared to the Kitfox design. Maybe the Kitfox is
> overdesigned and heavy as a reslult, but I like the history. I have been
> in some pretty heavy stuff, once in a flight of six flying over the
> Sawtooth Mountains of Idaho on our way to Smiley Creek - elev 7200 ft. -
> we did a quick 180 because we got tired of our heads banging on the
> skylight. Once in the middle of Nevada one of the guys inadvertently flew
> through a dust devil - no visible dust - and had a real ride, but other
> than having his headset knocked off his head and a good case of the
> shakes, no harm done.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
>
>>
>> Lowell,
>>
>> I agree on the horiz stab rod ends being ok. I think alot of the
>> problem might have been from the pilot pulling on it rather than the
>> grab handle ?
>>
>> As far as the wings, I agree they seem strong but the idea for 2 rod
>> ends on the strut if probably to make up for builing errors if any as
>> well as adjustment. . I have not heard of them coming apart but I have
>> broken them on other applications. They are tiny compared to GA
>> aircraft. That being said, has ther ever been an in flight breakup of a
>> Kitfox ?
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 5:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Jerry,
>>>
>>> Interesting.
>>>
>>> I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut and
>>> it is part of my preflight check.
>>>
>>> Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox
>>> design with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have been
>>> no structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful use,
>>> would there be a reason to change the design?
>>>
>>> Lowell
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on the
>>>> rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends are
>>>> used in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the loads.
>>>> Kitfox had some problems with rod ends failing in tail struts and
>>>> finally went to beefier rod ends or simple struts for the tail. Using
>>>> straight struts in the Avid left little room for error but resulted in
>>>> a stronger wing and tail.
>>>> Jerry Liles
>>>>
>>>> Rex Shaw wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Where did it fail ?
>>>>> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>>>>> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at the
>>>>> Avids
>>>>> they do not use rod ends.
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it for
>>>>> gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end but also
>>>>> here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough copies of
>>>>> Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry through tube and
>>>>> there is an AD out for that. I understand they have a weaker tube,
>>>>> maybe wall thickness not sure !
>>>>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends. What
>>>>> do they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>>>>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video copied
>>>>> by Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a copy could
>>>>> first check with Grant that this is on the Video then buy a copy from
>>>>> him. I remember his price was extremely reasonable and there was a lot
>>>>> of interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops and rolls in a Kitfox.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rex.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
While it never caused a crash that I'm aware of there were just too many
incidents of failure of the horizontal stab rod ends to call it ok. I
recall one incident a few years ago related by a member of the Kitfox
list of having to wrestle his airplane back home as it suddenly wanted
to descend and turn and he could not figure out why until someone on the
list suggested he inspect the horizontal stab. If the forces had been a
bit greater the stab might have twisted or fluttered and made the plane
uncontrollable or stressed the rear rod end to failure. That might have
hurt. As for the rod ends on the wings they seem to be trouble free and
adequately strong and make it easier to correct any minor
misalignments, certainly more so than on an Avid, though I had no
problem with mine.
dave wrote:
>
> Lowell,
>
> I agree on the horiz stab rod ends being ok. I think alot of the
> problem might have been from the pilot pulling on it rather than the
> grab handle ?
>
> As far as the wings, I agree they seem strong but the idea for 2 rod
> ends on the strut if probably to make up for builing errors if any as
> well as adjustment. . I have not heard of them coming apart but I
> have broken them on other applications. They are tiny compared to GA
> aircraft. That being said, has ther ever been an in flight breakup of
> a Kitfox ?
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 5:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
>
>>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>> I still have the 3/16 rod ends on the foreward horizontal stab strut
>> and it is part of my preflight check.
>>
>> Regarding stronger wings. I wonder if this is a plus, as the Kifox
>> design with more "room for error" is a proven design as there have
>> been no structural failures. If after about 15 years of uneventful
>> use, would there be a reason to change the design?
>>
>> Lowell
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Liles" <wliles@bayou.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Avid's, at least from the B model on, use one large size rod end on
>>> the rear strut of the left wing to allow trimming. No other rod ends
>>> are used in the wing or tail struts. Bolts in shear take the
>>> loads. Kitfox had some problems with rod ends failing in tail
>>> struts and finally went to beefier rod ends or simple struts for the
>>> tail. Using straight struts in the Avid left little room for error
>>> but resulted in a stronger wing and tail.
>>> Jerry Liles
>>>
>>> Rex Shaw wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where did it fail ?
>>>> The carry throguh tube would be one of the weakest links.
>>>> Rod ends would be the next weakest link I think. If you look at
>>>> the Avids
>>>> they do not use rod ends.
>>>> Dave
>>>> Dave,
>>>> I'm only going on memory here so please no one take it
>>>> for gospel but I seem to remember the weakest link is the rod end
>>>> but also here in Australia anyway we have Skyfox's that are rough
>>>> copies of Kitfox's. These are apparently failing at the carry
>>>> through tube and there is an AD out for that. I understand they
>>>> have a weaker tube, maybe wall thickness not sure !
>>>> Also took my interest to read the Avid does not use rod ends.
>>>> What do they do ? I assume just a bolt ! Is it in shear ?
>>>> I think that loading the wing to failure point is on a video
>>>> copied by Grant Fluent on this list. I guess anyone that wants a
>>>> copy could first check with Grant that this is on the Video then
>>>> buy a copy from him. I remember his price was extremely reasonable
>>>> and there was a lot of interesting stuff on the DVD copy like loops
>>>> and rolls in a Kitfox.
>>>>
>>>> Rex.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 21
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|
Dave:
Not hard to see the interest in the Challenger and its clones. Lots of
unobstructed view and a very light engine. Capable on floats. Very fast to
build. Just watch their video on low and slow flying.... You can do the
same in the 'Fox but they won't tell you that. The easily removable doors
are great for aerial photography.
I looked at the Challenger quite closely. What I liked was above. What I
didn't like was the blind riveted cluster fish plate joints. I don't think
they even used Cherry max rivets on them. (I could be wrong as those joints
are made at the factory) I feel safer with 4130 in the frame than extruded
aluminium where I can easily see it. I also didn't like the idea of being
stuck with tricycle only landing gear. In the kitfox there is still the
tricycle option.
The real selling point for me was the wing folding feature of the Kitfox.
I can unfold mine in less time than it takes to tell you how to do it. The
plane goes back into my garage after every flight. I fly floats so I like
the idea of the bologna slicer being out front as far away from the spray as
possible. I also like the idea of a 4130 welded frame! Side by side
seating to me is another plus but I also liked flying the Super Cub that has
tandem seating. I find pre-flight and post-flight inspections are easy to
do on the Kitfox as the whole front cowl is quickly removed and access even
to the back of the instrument panel is easy.
Weather here is rarely hot so I installed a gas shock on my door to hold it
up during flight.....effect is fabulas. Landing on floats with the door
open is at this stage beyond my ability to adequately describe. That one
you will have to try for your self. It's a bit like your first solo.
The end result is personal preference. Both are good planes (the Challenger
by reputation). I think the Kitfox and Avid (which one is the clone?) are
stronger and better in the harsh environment I live. If there is a fault
with the Kitfox it has to be I get nervous when someone who has never been
around a plane before offers me help launching or retrieving the plane. It
would be much worse with the Challenger.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:54 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
>
>
> Good to know Lowell. I too like the design of the Kitfox and
> have found it
> a easy adaptable airplane to fly.
> What happened on the horiz stab issue ? Were they broken
> from tugging on
> them ?
>
> As far as heavy , I think that any plane can get heavy in a
> hurry from all
> the add on as well as engine choices.
>
> In my opinion the Kitfox is one of the best on the market if
> not the best.
> Not to mention best bang for the buck on the used market. I
> am lost to
> understand whatd folks like about Challenger, Beavers and
> Chinnook planes
> but they are very popular and some really hold the mkt value
> for some reason
> that I will never understand.
>
> I think if a guy bought up 1 mil $ worth of used Kitfoxes
> that he could see
> at least 50% return over the next few years and if not he
> would have a nice
> collection of toys.
>
> Dave
Message 22
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My friends I fear the worst for my neighbor and friend. At about 4:00 my
Kitfox and I were in loose formation with N914C and now at 8:43 the hanger
is empty, the trucks are still there, and the police have been to his house.
Hug your wife, kids or whatever and remember there is no reset button. A
picture of a non Kitfox friend. Ron NB Ore (Coos Bay)
_________________________________________________________________
Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: type of fuel |
Synthetic oil will not combine with the TEL and lead will build up as lead sludge.
Semi-synthetic is a good compromise.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78784#78784
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