Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:11 AM - Re: N914C (QSS)
2. 02:15 AM - Re: N914C (Michel Verheughe)
3. 03:39 AM - Re: Failure Point (Don Smythe)
4. 03:49 AM - KITFOXSAFE (Don Smythe)
5. 06:55 AM - Re: Failure Point (Lowell Fitt)
6. 07:40 AM - Re: N914C (jdmcbean)
7. 08:05 AM - Re: KITFOXSAFE (Randy Daughenbaugh)
8. 09:09 AM - Re: Oil Filters for 912UL (Jimmie Blackwell)
9. 09:38 AM - Re: KITFOXSAFE (kurt schrader)
10. 12:39 PM - Re: KITFOXSAFE (Don Smythe)
11. 01:24 PM - Re: KITFOXSAFE (Fox5flyer)
12. 01:33 PM - Kitfox Load Testing (skyflyte@comcast.net)
13. 01:36 PM - engine preheater (Fox5flyer)
14. 02:20 PM - Re: Kitfox Load Testing (Rick Daniels)
15. 03:19 PM - Re: Oil Filters for 912UL (JOHN May)
16. 05:38 PM - Search for oil leak (Rexster)
17. 07:00 PM - Re: Search for oil leak (Alan Daniels)
18. 07:04 PM - Kitfox Upgrades (crazyivan)
19. 07:11 PM - Re: Kitfox Upgrades tires (Malcolmbru@AOL.COM)
20. 07:25 PM - Re: Oil Filters for 912UL (jeff puls)
21. 07:29 PM - Re: Search for oil leak (Bob Unternaehrer)
22. 07:54 PM - Re: Oil Filters for 912UL (Jimmie Blackwell)
23. 09:54 PM - Re: Oil Filters for 912UL (Randy Daughenbaugh)
24. 10:04 PM - Re: Re: Conventional Vs Tail and other training (Alan Daniels)
Message 1
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My sincere condolences Ron, I know time will help you come to terms with
your loss.
Regards
Graeme Toft
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ron schick
Sent: Monday, 4 December 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: N914C
<roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Now a search and recovery. Witnesses reported a straight in about 300
yards
offshore. I flew the coast more than an hour today and saw only sea
lions
and bubbles from the divers. Sonar arrives tommorow. Ron NB Ore
_________________________________________________________________
View Athletes Collections with Live Search
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGA
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27/11/2006
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27/11/2006
Message 2
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I am so sorry to hear that, Ron. My sinceres condeleances.
Michel
do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
Don P,
Thanks, I forget exactly why I stopped doing the "KITFOXSAFE" list but
it had something to do with retiring (the list was on my work computer),
having a computer crash and the backup copy didn't work. All this occurred
about the same time. Didn't know that anyone still had it.
Don S.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:43 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
> <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Here is a list of "KitfoxSafe" items started by Don Smith. He put a lot of
> effort into it and deserves Kudos.
> Don Pearsall
Message 4
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This is just a reminder to all list members that are seeing the
KITFOXSAFE items for the first. Back in the old days, we used to spend
a lot more time reporting problems and coming up with fixes on the list.
Each item is a result of beating problems to death and pulling out the
best of the recommended "opinions". So, this group of safety issues was
a result of the list members only with little to no input from Skystar.
All items were related to safety issues only. I guess we must have
fixed all the problems since we don't seem to see as many anymore.
Don Smythe
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Failure Point |
As I recall, the aero tubing was offered when I ordered - late 1992, and it
was expensivce - the upgrade to a 1/4" fitting was offered after the reports
of breakage.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "PWilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Failure Point
>
> Testing my memory but didn't they offer the aero tubing and 1/4x28 rod
> ends. The
> up grade was very expensive.
> Paul
> ==============
> At 09:29 AM 12/3/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>Jerry,
>>
>>Apples and oranges here. The failure with wrestle had to do with the jack
>>screw in the larger models that trimmed the horizontal stabilizer. That
>>is what failed. It had nothing to do with the struts, though it is agreed
>>that the larger models the struts had been beefed up and possibly with the
>>use of accepted AN fittings.
>>
>>I remember two - maybe more of the rod ends - rather the stud going into
>>the rod ends - failing and it was discovered on the ground after a flight.
>>I don't recall if there was a "feeling" in flight, but it definitely was
>>not a wrestle. There was an upgrade offered, but I couldn't find a
>>Service Letter or Bulletin on the issue.
>>
>>Lowell
Message 6
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Ron,
Our prayers and thoughts are with you and your friends family.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ron schick
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 6:21 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: N914C
Now a search and recovery. Witnesses reported a straight in about 300 yards
offshore. I flew the coast more than an hour today and saw only sea lions
and bubbles from the divers. Sonar arrives tommorow. Ron NB Ore
_________________________________________________________________
View Athlete's Collections with Live Search
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Message 7
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Don,
I know I speak for many others when I thank you for putting KIFOXSAFE
together. It was a lot of work for you to sort through all the discussion
to create a coherent report.
We are sad to see you leaving the ranks of Kitfox owners.
Randy
.
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 4:49 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: KITFOXSAFE
This is just a reminder to all list members that are seeing the KITFOXSAFE
items for the first. Back in the old days, we used to spend a lot more time
reporting problems and coming up with fixes on the list. Each item is a
result of beating problems to death and pulling out the best of the
recommended "opinions". So, this group of safety issues was a result of the
list members only with little to no input from Skystar. All items were
related to safety issues only. I guess we must have fixed all the problems
since we don't seem to see as many anymore.
Don Smythe
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Filters for 912UL |
John
I appreciate the information on the NAPA filter. Would be interesting
to know how many compression strokes you need to turn your engine to get
a burp from the oil tank.
To help protect an information source I would rather not post this on
the
list. Following is some information and observations I have made.
This issue involves the newer black Rotax oil filters. An inside source
told me that Rotax had stopped selling the black oil filters because
someone
discovered that some of the filters did not have an anti-drain back
feature
. To verify this I called the order line at Lockwood to order a filter
and
was told that they had rejected the last shipment of oil filters from
Rotax
and would have new ones in a couple of weeks. The order line could
not/would not elaborate on the problem.
This causes me to have concern about the quality control at Rotax.
Additionally, without an anti-drain back function any debris inside the
filter could flow right back into the engine and we certainly don't want
that to happen. If anything is caught in the oil filter I want it to
stay
there.
Will also share my observation between the Rotax oil filter and the
Carquest
85056 oil filter. In the beginning when I acquired my plane I did two
oil
changes using the Carquest filter and noted that I had to turn my engine
through about 30 compression strokes to get a burp out of the oil tank
after
the engine sat idle for a few days. Then I changed to the Rotax filter
and
found that I now had to turn the engine through at least 100 compression
strokes to get a burp from the oil tank. In the last week I installed a
Carquest filter and once again note that 30 compression strokes will get
a
burp from the oil tank even after the engine sat idle for 4 days. I
realize
there is an issue about bypass pressure of the Carquest or any other
filter
other than Rotax. Hopefully, in the near future I will be able to get
the
bypass pressure spec for the Rotax filter.
To Phil Lockwood's credit he called me and we discussed the issue of the
oil
filters. While he and I did not agree completely on the oil filters, my
opinion is that he is trying to do the right thing for his customers
while
staying within the boundaries he has to work
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN May
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
Jimmie,
This is John May iin Kalamazoo Michigan. I have a Model IV-1200
Speedster with a Rotax 912UL (approx 735 Hours). I am the second owner (
I bought it at 500 Hours). The original owner/builder told me to use the
NAPA gold #1056 spin on oil filter. Every other oil change I have the
oil analysis done by Blackstone. The oil analysis up to this point has
always been in line with what is to be expected for its age. I want to
do what is best for the engine so I am interested in what you have found
out. John May
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
In recent days I have done some research on oil filters and in
particular Rotax filters versus Carquest and Wix filters. The results
are
Message 9
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I second that Don. You did a lot more than just
participate on the list. Selfishly, I want you to
stick around all you can here.
Kurt S.
--- Randy Daughenbaugh <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com> wrote:
> Don,
>
> I know I speak for many others when I thank you for
> putting KIFOXSAFE
> together. It was a lot of work for you to sort
> through all the discussion
> to create a coherent report.
> We are sad to see you leaving the ranks of Kitfox
> owners.
> Randy
Do not archive
Message 10
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Thanks but, I may not be leaving the ranks. No one seems to be knocking
my door down to buy my Fox.
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Daughenbaugh
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KITFOXSAFE
Don,
I know I speak for many others when I thank you for putting KIFOXSAFE
together. It was a lot of work for you to sort through all the
discussion to create a coherent report.
We are sad to see you leaving the ranks of Kitfox owners.
Randy
.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 4:49 AM
To: Kitfox List
Subject: Kitfox-List: KITFOXSAFE
This is just a reminder to all list members that are seeing the
KITFOXSAFE items for the first. Back in the old days, we used to spend
a lot more time reporting problems and coming up with fixes on the list.
Each item is a result of beating problems to death and pulling out the
best of the recommended "opinions". So, this group of safety issues was
a result of the list members only with little to no input from Skystar.
All items were related to safety issues only. I guess we must have
fixed all the problems since we don't seem to see as many anymore.
Don Smythe
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitf
ox-List
Message 11
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Part of that is probably caused by the demise of Skystar. Most people
want to buy an airplane from a company that they feel comfortable being
able to get support from. KitfoxAircraft is going to take awhile to
turn this around so it's in our best interests to let the world know
that Kitfox is still in production and being supported.
As for you sticking around for awhile Don. Well, that's not necessarily
a bad thing. :-) Does anyone have anything they can add to the Kitfox
Safe?
Deke
Thanks but, I may not be leaving the ranks. No one seems to be
knocking my door down to buy my Fox.
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Daughenbaugh
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KITFOXSAFE
Don,
I know I speak for many others when I thank you for putting
KIFOXSAFE together. It was a lot of work for you to sort through all
the discussion to create a coherent report.
We are sad to see you leaving the ranks of Kitfox owners.
Randy
.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 4:49 AM
To: Kitfox List
Subject: Kitfox-List: KITFOXSAFE
This is just a reminder to all list members that are seeing the
KITFOXSAFE items for the first. Back in the old days, we used to spend
a lot more time reporting problems and coming up with fixes on the list.
Each item is a result of beating problems to death and pulling out the
best of the recommended "opinions". So, this group of safety issues was
a result of the list members only with little to no input from Skystar.
All items were related to safety issues only. I guess we must have
fixed all the problems since we don't seem to see as many anymore.
Don Smythe
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitf
ox-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
Message 12
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| Subject: | Kitfox Load Testing |
Someone asked about Kitfox load testing and I found this picture in the 1992
Jan./Feb. issue of the Kitfox Times (the picture is small, 49.9KB). There is
no mention about the total load on the wings, but those bags of sand probably
weigh at least 100# each, maybe more! Since the date was 1992, I would think
this is the Model IV wing, not the clipped wing Speedster.
Mike Cannon
N490MC
<html><body>
<DIV> Someone asked about Kitfox load testing and I found this picture
in the 1992 Jan./Feb. issue of the Kitfox Times (the picture is small, 49.9KB).
There is no mention about the total load on the wings, but those bags
of sand probably weigh at least 100# each, maybe more! Since the date
was 1992, I would think this is the Model IV wing, not the clipped wing Speedster.</DIV>
<DIV> Mike Cannon</DIV>
<DIV> N490MC</DIV></body></html>
Message 13
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| Subject: | engine preheater |
Awhile back I asked for some tips on how to preheat my S5 Subaru. The
Soob is a bit temperamental starting when the temp goes below 35f so I
asked for a heater that had a blower that worked off of 12v and was
small enough to carry with me in the airplane. Someone (thanks!) clued
me in on the Zodi tent heater
http://www.zodi.com/web-content/Consumer/zodihotvent.html so I bought
one and today it got its first test. It took one hour to get the engine
temp up to 50f from 22f. This is right out of the box with no mods or
anything. It retails for $149, but I paid $110+sh. Just shop around.
I saw where one went on ebay for $55, but I missed it. I just finished
ordering 10 feet of flex tube so I can move the unit a little farther
away from the airplane.
The nice thing about it is that it doubles for a tent heater, duh! :-)
Deke
Mikado Michigan
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Load Testing |
more pictures of load testing at
www.kitfoxaircraft.com/Aircraft%20Kits.htm or log on to
Kitfoxaircraft.com and click on aircraft kits then at the bottom click
on testing information. Looks like the same picture but there are
several more.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Filters for 912UL |
Jimmie,
I will check out the number of compression strokes the next time I am at the
airport. Just to be sure I understand what you mean by "burp" I think you mean
the gurgleing noise it makes, is this correct? Do you mean when you first hear
the gurgle? I will have to check it out but my guess is that 30 is about right
for my filter also. The only time I turn the engine that many strokes is after
I change the oil and I am trying to make sure the system is filled before
I start it up. John May from Kalamazoo ( Model IV-1200 912 UL N48PN )
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
John
I appreciate the information on the NAPA filter. Would be interesting to know
how many compression strokes you need to turn your engine to get a burp from
the oil tank.
To help protect an information source I would rather not post this on the
list. Following is some information and observations I have made.
This issue involves the newer black Rotax oil filters. An inside source
told me that Rotax had stopped selling the black oil filters because someone
discovered that some of the filters did not have an anti-drain back feature
. To verify this I called the order line at Lockwood to order a filter and
was told that they had rejected the last shipment of oil filters from Rotax
and would have new ones in a couple of weeks. The order line could
not/would not elaborate on the problem.
This causes me to have concern about the quality control at Rotax.
Additionally, without an anti-drain back function any debris inside the
filter could flow right back into the engine and we certainly don't want
that to happen. If anything is caught in the oil filter I want it to stay
there.
Will also share my observation between the Rotax oil filter and the Carquest
85056 oil filter. In the beginning when I acquired my plane I did two oil
changes using the Carquest filter and noted that I had to turn my engine
through about 30 compression strokes to get a burp out of the oil tank after
the engine sat idle for a few days. Then I changed to the Rotax filter and
found that I now had to turn the engine through at least 100 compression
strokes to get a burp from the oil tank. In the last week I installed a
Carquest filter and once again note that 30 compression strokes will get a
burp from the oil tank even after the engine sat idle for 4 days. I realize
there is an issue about bypass pressure of the Carquest or any other filter
other than Rotax. Hopefully, in the near future I will be able to get the
bypass pressure spec for the Rotax filter.
To Phil Lockwood's credit he called me and we discussed the issue of the oil
filters. While he and I did not agree completely on the oil filters, my
opinion is that he is trying to do the right thing for his customers while
staying within the boundaries he has to work
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN May
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
Jimmie,
This is John May iin Kalamazoo Michigan. I have a Model IV-1200 Speedster with
a Rotax 912UL (approx 735 Hours). I am the second owner ( I bought it at 500
Hours). The original owner/builder told me to use the NAPA gold #1056 spin on
oil filter. Every other oil change I have the oil analysis done by Blackstone.
The oil analysis up to this point has always been in line with what is to be
expected for its age. I want to do what is best for the engine so I am interested
in what you have found out. John May
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
In recent days I have done some research on oil filters and in particular
Rotax filters versus Carquest and Wix filters. The results are
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
Message 16
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| Subject: | Search for oil leak |
Anybody know a procedure for locating an oil leak? Every time I fly
lately, there's a couple streaks coming out of my cowl. I cleaned the
engine and ran it for fifteen minutes to pinpoint the location, but
it wouldn't leak.
So I took it up and it leaked again, in the vacinity of the oil cooler,
sending unit, oil pump, gearbox etc. Next, I blocked off the overflow
line at the tank and put compressed air in the oil tank. Still no
leaks. Since the pump pressurizes the system to about 60 psi, am I
safe putting that amount in at the oil tank to test for leaks? The
engine is the 912 UL. I sure am open to new ideas. Thanks in advance,Rex
in Michigan
<html><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=
2>Anybody know a procedure for locating an oil leak? Every time I fly <B
R>lately, there's a couple streaks coming out of my cowl. I cleaned the
<BR>engine and ran it for fifteen minutes to pinpoint the location, but
<BR>it wouldn't leak.<BR>So I took it up and it leaked again, in the vac
inity of the oil cooler, <BR>sending unit, oil pump, gearbox etc. Next,
I blocked off the overflow<BR>line at the tank and put compressed air in
the oil tank. Still no <BR>leaks. Since the pump pressurizes the system
to about 60 psi, am I <BR>safe putting that amount in at the oil tank t
o test for leaks? The <BR>engine is the 912 UL. I sure am open to new id
eas. </FONT></B></PRE><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=
#000000 size=2>Thanks in advance,</FONT></B></PRE><PRE><STRONG>Rex in
Michigan<FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2> </F
ONT></STRONG></PRE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Search for oil leak |
The best way is to go to your local auto parts store and get a dye for
the oil. It shows up under black light and/or colored glasses. Clean
the engine and area with solvent, add the dye to the oil and run for a
short while and it should be easy to find.
Rexster wrote:
> *Anybody know a procedure for locating an oil leak? Every time I fly
> lately, there's a couple streaks coming out of my cowl. I cleaned the
> engine and ran it for fifteen minutes to pinpoint the location, but
> it wouldn't leak.
> So I took it up and it leaked again, in the vacinity of the oil cooler,
> sending unit, oil pump, gearbox etc. Next, I blocked off the overflow
> line at the tank and put compressed air in the oil tank. Still no
> leaks. Since the pump pressurizes the system to about 60 psi, am I
> safe putting that amount in at the oil tank to test for leaks? The
> engine is the 912 UL. I sure am open to new ideas. *
> *Thanks in advance,*
> *Rex in Michigan *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 18
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To the "experts" on this list (self-proclaimed or otherwise) I am planning on doing
some upgrades to my Speedster. I want to get your take on them, especially
if you have first-hand knowledge, and tell me (us all) if they are worth the
money/work.
-Solid Lexan turtledeck. The original one leaks.
-KingFox tundra tires.
-8" Pneumatic Matco tailwheel (instead of the rubber puck)
-Oil thermostat for the 914UL. I have aluminum tape on it now for the winter but
the temp decreases considerably when I'm in a power-off descent.
-A cargo pod or those under-the-seat storage bins that Kitfox has on their website.
Which one do you like better?
Whaddya think?
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79193#79193
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Upgrades tires |
the tires may be a little lite for the speedster I have a set on my model 2
mal
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Filters for 912UL |
John,
I use a non-Rotax filter and it takes me from 175 to 230 strokes before
I hear a gurgle. Jeff 912UL Columbus, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN May
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
Jimmie,
I will check out the number of compression strokes the next time I am
at the airport. Just to be sure I understand what you mean by "burp" I
think you mean the gurgleing noise it makes, is this correct? Do you
mean when you first hear the gurgle? I will have to check it out but my
guess is that 30 is about right for my filter also. The only time I turn
the engine that many strokes is after I change the oil and I am trying
to make sure the system is filled before I start it up. John May
from Kalamazoo ( Model IV-1200 912 UL N48PN )
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
John
I appreciate the information on the NAPA filter. Would be
interesting to know how many compression strokes you need to turn your
engine to get a burp from the oil tank.
To help protect an information source I would rather not post this
on the
list. Following is some information and observations I have made.
This issue involves the newer black Rotax oil filters. An inside
source
told me that Rotax had stopped selling the black oil filters because
someone
discovered that some of the filters did not have an anti-drain back
feature
. To verify this I called the order line at Lockwood to order a
filter and
was told that they had rejected the last shipment of oil filters
from Rotax
and would have new ones in a couple of weeks. The order line could
not/would not elaborate on the problem.
This causes me to have concern about the quality control at Rotax.
Additionally, without an anti-drain back function any debris inside
the
filter could flow right back into the engine and we certainly don't
want
that to happen. If anything is caught in the oil filter I want it
to stay
there.
Will also share my observation between the Rotax oil filter and the
Carquest
85056 oil filter. In the beginning when I acquired my plane I did
two oil
changes using the Carquest filter and noted that I had to turn my
engine
through about 30 compression strokes to get a burp out of the oil
tank after
the engine sat idle for a few days. Then I changed to the Rotax
filter and
found that I now had to turn the engine through at least 100
compression
strokes to get a burp from the oil tank. In the last week I
installed a
Carquest filter and once again note that 30 compression strokes will
get a
burp from the oil tank even after the engine sat idle for 4 days. I
realize
there is an issue about bypass pressure of the Carquest or any other
filter
other than Rotax. Hopefully, in the near future I will be able to
get the
bypass pressure spec for the Rotax filter.
To Phil Lockwood's credit he called me and we discussed the issue of
the oil
filters. While he and I did not agree completely on the oil
filters, my
opinion is that he is trying to do the right thing for his customers
while
staying within the boundaries he has to work
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN May
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
Jimmie,
This is John May iin Kalamazoo Michigan. I have a Model IV-1200
Speedster with a Rotax 912UL (approx 735 Hours). I am the second owner (
I bought it at 500 Hours). The original owner/builder told me to use the
NAPA gold #1056 spin on oil filter. Every other oil change I have the
oil analysis done by Blackstone. The oil analysis up to this point has
always been in line with what is to be expected for its age. I want to
do what is best for the engine so I am interested in what you have found
out. John May
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Search for oil leak |
Talcum powder sometimes helps on diesel fuel leaks and also oil. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rexster
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Search for oil leak
Anybody know a procedure for locating an oil leak? Every time I fly
lately, there's a couple streaks coming out of my cowl. I cleaned the
engine and ran it for fifteen minutes to pinpoint the location, but it
wouldn't leak.So I took it up and it leaked again, in the vacinity of
the oil cooler, sending unit, oil pump, gearbox etc. Next, I blocked off
the overflowline at the tank and put compressed air in the oil tank.
Still no leaks. Since the pump pressurizes the system to about 60 psi,
am I safe putting that amount in at the oil tank to test for leaks? The
engine is the 912 UL. I sure am open to new ideas. Thanks in advance,Rex
in Michigan
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Filters for 912UL |
John
Yes, the gurgle is what I am referring to. I am still amazed and
puzzedled by the difference between the number of compression stokes
needed to get the, "burp or gurgle", from the Rotax and Carquest
filters. I think we are close to discovering something significant.
Please keep me informed.
Thank you.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN May
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
Jimmie,
I will check out the number of compression strokes the next time I am
at the airport. Just to be sure I understand what you mean by "burp" I
think you mean the gurgleing noise it makes, is this correct? Do you
mean when you first hear the gurgle? I will have to check it out but my
guess is that 30 is about right for my filter also. The only time I turn
the engine that many strokes is after I change the oil and I am trying
to make sure the system is filled before I start it up. John May
from Kalamazoo ( Model IV-1200 912 UL N48PN )
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
John
I appreciate the information on the NAPA filter. Would be
interesting to know how many compression strokes you need to turn your
engine to get a burp from the oil tank.
To help protect an information source I would rather not post this
on the
list. Following is some information and observations I have made.
This issue involves the newer black Rotax oil filters. An inside
source
told me that Rotax had stopped selling the black oil filters because
someone
discovered that some of the filters did not have an anti-drain back
feature
. To verify this I called the order line at Lockwood to order a
filter and
was told that they had rejected the last shipment of oil filters
from Rotax
and would have new ones in a couple of weeks. The order line could
not/would not elaborate on the problem.
This causes me to have concern about the quality control at Rotax.
Additionally, without an anti-drain back function any debris inside
the
filter could flow right back into the engine and we certainly don't
want
that to happen. If anything is caught in the oil filter I want it
to stay
there.
Will also share my observation between the Rotax oil filter and the
Carquest
85056 oil filter. In the beginning when I acquired my plane I did
two oil
changes using the Carquest filter and noted that I had to turn my
engine
through about 30 compression strokes to get a burp out of the oil
tank after
the engine sat idle for a few days. Then I changed to the Rotax
filter and
found that I now had to turn the engine through at least 100
compression
strokes to get a burp from the oil tank. In the last week I
installed a
Carquest filter and once again note that 30 compression strokes will
get a
burp from the oil tank even after the engine sat idle for 4 days. I
realize
there is an issue about bypass pressure of the Carquest or any other
filter
other than Rotax. Hopefully, in the near future I will be able to
get the
bypass pressure spec for the Rotax filter.
To Phil Lockwood's credit he called me and we discussed the issue of
the oil
filters. While he and I did not agree completely on the oil
filters, my
opinion is that he is trying to do the right thing for his customers
while
staying within the boundaries he has to work
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN May
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
Jimmie,
This is John May iin Kalamazoo Michigan. I have a Model IV-1200
Speedster with a Rotax 912UL (approx 735 Hours). I am the second owner (
I bought it at 500 Hours). The original owner/builder told me to use the
NAPA gold #1056 spin on oil filter. Every other oil change I have the
oil analysis done by Blackstone. The oil analysis up to this point has
always been in line with what is to be expected for its age. I want to
do what is best for the engine so I am interested in what you have found
out. John May
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
Message 23
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| Subject: | Oil Filters for 912UL |
Jimmie,
This puzzles the heck out of me too!!! My understanding of "dry sump"
engines is that it is the blow-by from the compression stroke that pressures
the crankcase and pushes the oil out and back to the external reservoir.
Couple that with the speculated difference in the filters - the different
pressures of the relief valve - and,,,,,
What does the amount of blow-by have to do with whether all the oil goes
through the filter or not? The number of
compression strokes should have everything to do with ring leakage and
nothing to do with by-passing the oil filter. ???????
I owe you an apology. My engine takes about 20 - 27 blades (about 35
compressions?) with the rotax filters or with the CarQuest filters. Less in
the summer time than in the winter. I check the oil every time I fly. I
though you had been smoking something until Jeff came up with a different
number too. But he claims an unspecified non-rotax filter.
I need someone to explain this to me. I must not understand something here.
And I think it is important to understand this.
I have been trying to get info on the pressure values for the pressure
relief valves. It is not easy to come by!
Randy
.
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jimmie
Blackwell
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
John
Yes, the gurgle is what I am referring to. I am still amazed and puzzedled
by the difference between the number of compression stokes needed to get
the, "burp or gurgle", from the Rotax and Carquest filters. I think we are
close to discovering something significant. Please keep me informed.
Thank you.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN May <mailto:jpm7940@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
Jimmie,
I will check out the number of compression strokes the next time I am at the
airport. Just to be sure I understand what you mean by "burp" I think you
mean the gurgleing noise it makes, is this correct? Do you mean when you
first hear the gurgle? I will have to check it out but my guess is that 30
is about right for my filter also. The only time I turn the engine that many
strokes is after I change the oil and I am trying to make sure the system is
filled before I start it up. John May from Kalamazoo ( Model IV-1200
912 UL N48PN )
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
John
I appreciate the information on the NAPA filter. Would be interesting to
know how many compression strokes you need to turn your engine to get a burp
from the oil tank.
To help protect an information source I would rather not post this on the
list. Following is some information and observations I have made.
This issue involves the newer black Rotax oil filters. An inside source
told me that Rotax had stopped selling the black oil filters because someone
discovered that some of the filters did not have an anti-drain back feature
. To verify this I called the order line at Lockwood to order a filter and
was told that they had rejected the last shipment of oil filters from Rotax
and would have new ones in a couple of weeks. The order line could
not/would not elaborate on the problem.
This causes me to have concern about the quality control at Rotax.
Additionally, without an anti-drain back function any debris inside the
filter could flow right back into the engine and we certainly don't want
that to happen. If anything is caught in the oil filter I want it to stay
there.
Will also share my observation between the Rotax oil filter and the Carquest
85056 oil filter. In the beginning when I acquired my plane I did two oil
changes using the Carquest filter and noted that I had to turn my engine
through about 30 compression strokes to get a burp out of the oil tank after
the engine sat idle for a few days. Then I changed to the Rotax filter and
found that I now had to turn the engine through at least 100 compression
strokes to get a burp from the oil tank. In the last week I installed a
Carquest filter and once again note that 30 compression strokes will get a
burp from the oil tank even after the engine sat idle for 4 days. I realize
there is an issue about bypass pressure of the Carquest or any other filter
other than Rotax. Hopefully, in the near future I will be able to get the
bypass pressure spec for the Rotax filter.
To Phil Lockwood's credit he called me and we discussed the issue of the oil
filters. While he and I did not agree completely on the oil filters, my
opinion is that he is trying to do the right thing for his customers while
staying within the boundaries he has to work
----- Original Message -----
From: JOHN May <mailto:jpm7940@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Filters for 912UL
Jimmie,
This is John May iin Kalamazoo Michigan. I have a Model IV-1200 Speedster
with a Rotax 912UL (approx 735 Hours). I am the second owner ( I bought it
at 500 Hours). The original owner/builder told me to use the NAPA gold
#1056 spin on oil filter. Every other oil change I have the oil analysis
done by Blackstone. The oil analysis up to this point has always been in
line with what is to be expected for its age. I want to do what is best for
the engine so I am interested in what you have found out. John May
Jimmie Blackwell <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com> wrote:
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Conventional Vs Tail and other training |
Its nice to see familiar names on the list as I have been off for half a
year due to work. This thing about which end the little wheel should be
on comes up every year or so. We fly these things for fun so put it
where you want it. The only real reason to put it on the back is for
landing soft or rough, and I am not referring to sod or packed dirt. If
you need 8:50 or 26 inch tires to keep from digging in then you need the
little wheel on the back, but I have put my Vixen in most of the Idaho
back country strips with no concern. The advantage in that it handles
like a go cart on the ground and will take a lot of cross wind. The tail
wheel version is easy if you make sure that there is no toe in, that you
land slow enough, and maybe most importantly if you are landing on
pavement that your air pressure is down in the mains - 10 to 15 pounds,
and up towards the limit in the tailwheel. If anyone is interested and
in my area I have two model 5's in my hangar, with the little wheel on
different ends that I would be happy to take you flying in each so you
can see for yourself. However if you are here you are also just a few
minutes from the factory and John can show you also.
>
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