Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 AM - RE Skis for Kitfox's (Michel Verheughe)
2. 03:38 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (dave)
3. 04:23 AM - Old Subject? (RAY Gignac)
4. 04:27 AM - Re: Tail wheels (Jimmie Blackwell)
5. 04:40 AM - Re: Old Subject? (wwillyard@aol.com)
6. 04:44 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Don Smythe)
7. 04:44 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Fox5flyer)
8. 04:45 AM - Re: Old Subject? (john perry)
9. 05:43 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (dave)
10. 05:50 AM - Re: Old Subject? AVGAS and 582 (dave)
11. 05:53 AM - Skis for Kitfox's more info (dave)
12. 05:57 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Lynn Matteson)
13. 06:09 AM - Re: Old Subject? (Noel Loveys)
14. 06:27 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (john perry)
15. 06:27 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Lynn Matteson)
16. 06:42 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Don Smythe)
17. 06:44 AM - Re: Old Subject? AVGAS and 582 (john perry)
18. 06:44 AM - Another 5 Coming Alive (Tinne maha)
19. 07:12 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Don Smythe)
20. 07:24 AM - TRY FIT GROVE L.G. FROM MODEL V TO IV (PEDRO PEREZ)
21. 07:27 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Richard Rabbers)
22. 07:46 AM - Re: Another 5 Coming Alive (Alan Daniels)
23. 07:47 AM - Skis for Kitfox's (Fox5flyer)
24. 08:03 AM - Re: Another 5 Coming Alive (jdmcbean)
25. 08:14 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's more info (Tom Jones)
26. 08:27 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (dave)
27. 08:29 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Bob Robertson)
28. 08:34 AM - Re: Another 5 Coming Alive (Guy Buchanan)
29. 08:49 AM - Re: TRY FIT GROVE L.G. FROM MODEL V TO IV (Fox5flyer)
30. 09:14 AM - Re: Old Subject? (RAY Gignac)
31. 09:17 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (dave)
32. 09:39 AM - Re: Old Subject? (kitfoxmike)
33. 09:40 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Noel Loveys)
34. 10:09 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Michel Verheughe)
35. 11:44 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Lynn Matteson)
36. 12:01 PM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Lynn Matteson)
37. 12:29 PM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Don Smythe)
38. 12:47 PM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Don Smythe)
39. 02:20 PM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (dwight purdy)
40. 03:10 PM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Don Smythe)
41. 03:26 PM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (dave)
42. 03:39 PM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Don Smythe)
43. 03:47 PM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (john perry)
44. 04:02 PM - Spark Plugs (Don Smythe)
45. 04:14 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (john perry)
46. 04:17 PM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (dave)
47. 04:44 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Bob Robertson)
48. 04:47 PM - Checking Resistor Caps (Rex Shaw)
49. 04:59 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Bob Robertson)
50. 05:12 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (john perry)
51. 05:24 PM - Re: Kitfox as a Lite Sport (dcsfoto)
52. 06:29 PM - Re: Checking Resistor Caps (Guy Buchanan)
53. 06:29 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Guy Buchanan)
54. 06:57 PM - Re: 0-235 vs Turbo Subaru (Jim Corner)
55. 07:49 PM - Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? (dave)
56. 08:41 PM - Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? (john perry)
57. 09:30 PM - Re: Helpful people - was Skis for Kitfox's (kurt schrader)
58. 09:49 PM - Tank Sloshing (colindu)
59. 10:31 PM - Re: Tank Sloshing (kurt schrader)
60. 10:46 PM - Re: TRY FIT GROVE L.G. FROM MODEL V TO IV (kurt schrader)
61. 11:51 PM - Re: 0-235 vs Turbo Subaru0-235 vs Turbo Subaru (Michael Gibbs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE Skis for Kitfox's |
> From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> Michel, are you here?
... I was sleeping but ... ok, don't tell my employer! :-)
I think Lynn wants only a second opinion, Kurt, because we have already talked
ski off the list.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Guy, Yes, just unscrew the cap and check with ohm meter.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
> At 11:25 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>>Generally use resistor either in the plug or the cap but not both to help
>>with ignition noise in the radio.
>
> How do I check whether I have resistor caps or not? Is it simply 5k ohms
> between the plug and wire contacts? I guess I therefore have to remove the
> caps from the wires. Is there anything special I should do to put them
> back together, such as conductive grease, etc.?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
Message 3
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I live in Maryland, and found out that most if not all the gas stations in
my area are using gas with 10% ethanol added! will this type of gas be safe
to use in the Kitfox tanks?
Also, if I decided to use Avgas will I have to change my fuel lines back to
Aviation fuel lines.
Thanks for any input
Ray
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 4
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Yes indeed I have the Home Builders Special tailwheel. The ole maule solid
rubber is a good wheel, but the home builders tail wheel gives a much
smoother ride. I am very pleased with it. Be sure and get rid of the
bearsings that come with it and get the better bearings.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail wheels
>
> As Rex said, I'm very happy with my decision (based on Rex's suggestion,
> for one) to go with the Home Builder's Special tailwheel. Jimmie Blackwell
> has also gone this route, I believe, and might back up this testimonial.
>
> Lynn
> On Thursday, December 7, 2006, at 02:43 PM, Rex Shaw wrote:
>
>> About the only thing I can take issue with is the Maule tailwheel. The
>> hard
>> rubber type is a 6" unit and I think it's about a pound lighter than the
>> pneumatic type which is an 8" inch unit. Have you considered the Home
>> Builders Special? Very light and soft rubber for a better ride. Might
>> even
>> be lighter than the Maule 6 inch.
>>
>> Dave,
>> I use the 6" Home Builders Special wheel from Aircraft Spruce and I would
>> totally agree it's well worth considering. I changed from that horible
>> Maule SFSA solid wheel and the difference is amazing. It runs very much
>> quieter and gives much better control. It cost less than $30 although you
>> need to address the bearing and axle size issues. The bearings that come
>> in the wheel are total rubbish and for a 5/8" axle. The Maule SFSA tail
>> wheel assembly is 1/2" axle. Just go to a bearing supply shop and get the
>> right size sealed bearings with a circlip to stop them sliding into the
>> wheel too far.
>> I have no experience with the pneumatic wheel but believe it is also a
>> good answer to the shocking solid Maule wheel. However the Homebuilders
>> wheel is a lot cheaper way to go. Several including Lynn and Michel on
>> this list have gone this way and I'm sure they are also very satisfied
>> with the decision.
>> Rex.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Old Subject? |
Ray,
I switched back to 100LL about a year ago and have not noticed any problems
with the automotive grade fuel lines so far. I will continue to monitor the
lines but suspect that there will not be a problem as avgas does not have as
many additives as auto fuel.
Bill W.
-----Original Message-----
From: kitfoxpilot@msn.com
Sent: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 7:22 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
I live in Maryland, and found out that most if not all the gas stations in m
y area are using gas with 10% ethanol added! will this type of gas be safe t
o use in the Kitfox tanks?
Also, if I decided to use Avgas will I have to change my fuel lines back to
Aviation fuel lines.
Thanks for any input
Ray
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to go
back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES spark
plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site and
can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the article
said basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must NOT use
screw on tips. Where did he buy them?
The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: dav
The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R" denotes
a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of spark
plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is mandatory.
The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the spark plug
connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
Spark plug gap
a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help starting
in very cold conditions
To be avoided:
a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
b.. Screwed-on tips
c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
d..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
Lynn, you might consider just not using skis, but instead, put on bigger
balloon tires. They'll ride over some pretty deep snow with no problem.
It's a lot simpler. Now if you had the snow down there that we have up here
it would be a different story.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:46 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis for Kitfox's
>
> I'd like to get peoples opinions on skis for a Model IV. I know Skystar
> offered them, but not (I don't think) in the wheel-penetration type
> that I am interested in. We don't get enough snow around here (Lower
> Michigan) to warrant full skis...that is, non-penetration skis. But if
> we get our normal amount, my strip will be snowed over, while most of
> the paved strips will be cleared of snow, and I wouldn't be able to go
> there....well, you get the idea. I'd like to hear some dialogue about
> what is involved in flying with skis, problems encountered, etc. I am
> thinking of building my own skis of the wheel-penetration type, or
> perhaps buying if a pair is available. I need a project, so building is
> preferred.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Old Subject? |
Ray the ethanol will slowly dissolve the fuellines in the fox or anyother
plane with rubber fuel lines . I use 100ll with my 582 and have had no
problems at all . No do not change the lines to mil spec , Just use what u
have with 100LL,
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot@msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:22 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
>
> I live in Maryland, and found out that most if not all the gas stations in
> my area are using gas with 10% ethanol added! will this type of gas be
> safe to use in the Kitfox tanks?
>
> Also, if I decided to use Avgas will I have to change my fuel lines back
> to Aviation fuel lines.
>
> Thanks for any input
>
> Ray
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office Live
> Sweepstakes http://clk..atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Don, I buy all plugs from Rotax distributor. I am not exactly sure why
it is like this
I would suggest Bob Robertson as I have used him with excellent
service.
Down south any Rotax shop will have them I am sure.
I found this picon this site
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/images/profile/Ngk104-0.jpg
Shows a solid tip.
Now if you like i can go out to shop and take some pics for you later ?
Let me know . I might have some screw tips that have damage tips worn
as I have decribed. ?
Dave
Also the first one is from a another quality Rotax Shop in Canada and he
says same
>>
To be avoided:
a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
b.. Screwed-on tips
c.. Unverified spark plug gaps <<
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to
go back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES
spark plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site
and can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the
article said basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must
NOT use screw on tips. Where did he buy them?
The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: dav
The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R"
denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of
spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is
mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the
spark plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
Spark plug gap
a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help
starting in very cold conditions
To be avoided:
a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
b.. Screwed-on tips
c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
d..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Old Subject? AVGAS and 582 |
John , I posted a link earlier on spark plus and it has stated there not
to use avgas?
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm
Aviation Fuels
It is possible but not recommended to use 100LL AVGAS, since the the lead
content will increase deposits in the combustion chamber and on crankshaft
ball bearings, inducing premature wear. Its higher octane rating does not
bring any significant advantage to the engine's operation.
Now from experience I will tell you that av gas will hold it's octane longer
that auto gas, but I have used 3 month old auto gas without an issue.
Temporary use of Avgas in 2 strokes will most likely casue any damages but
I would caution on using it on a regular basis. Besides auto ga a bit
cheaper :)
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
>
> Ray the ethanol will slowly dissolve the fuellines in the fox or anyother
> plane with rubber fuel lines . I use 100ll with my 582 and have had no
> problems at all . No do not change the lines to mil spec , Just use what u
> have with 100LL,
>
> John Perry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot@msn.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:22 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
>
>
>>
>> I live in Maryland, and found out that most if not all the gas stations
>> in my area are using gas with 10% ethanol added! will this type of gas
>> be safe to use in the Kitfox tanks?
>>
>> Also, if I decided to use Avgas will I have to change my fuel lines back
>> to Aviation fuel lines.
>>
>> Thanks for any input
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office Live
>> Sweepstakes http://clk..atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Skis for Kitfox's more info |
I sent Lynn a lengthy letter on Skis with a picture. I did not want pollute
up this list with Ski info but if any wants a copy let me know.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@i-star.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis for Kitfox's
>
> Lynn, you might consider just not using skis, but instead, put on bigger
> balloon tires. They'll ride over some pretty deep snow with no problem.
> It's a lot simpler. Now if you had the snow down there that we have up
> here
> it would be a different story.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:46 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis for Kitfox's
>
>
>>
>> I'd like to get peoples opinions on skis for a Model IV. I know Skystar
>> offered them, but not (I don't think) in the wheel-penetration type
>> that I am interested in. We don't get enough snow around here (Lower
>> Michigan) to warrant full skis...that is, non-penetration skis. But if
>> we get our normal amount, my strip will be snowed over, while most of
>> the paved strips will be cleared of snow, and I wouldn't be able to go
>> there....well, you get the idea. I'd like to hear some dialogue about
>> what is involved in flying with skis, problems encountered, etc. I am
>> thinking of building my own skis of the wheel-penetration type, or
>> perhaps buying if a pair is available. I need a project, so building is
>> preferred.
>>
>> Lynn
>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
Thanks, Kurt...yes I'm in touch with Michel. I have his drawing, and
some nice pictures of his installation. I also got some picture off
Sportflight.com, which were helpful. Now I just have to decide whether
or not to do it, and how much bother they are in use. I've been getting
some input from local fliers, including my flight instructor, and some
of the stories they tell is making me have second thoughts about "going
skiing." Things like running across snowmobile tracks, hidden
obstructions, etc. I know that if I stay on known grass strips, or
paved runways, I *should* be ok, but I've seen these snowmobile guys
tear up all over the place, leaving their ruts in their wake. I'm
trying to get some input as to the feasibility of the whole
matter....I'd hate to go two or three months without flying.
Lynn
On Thursday, December 7, 2006, at 01:09 AM, kurt schrader wrote:
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Michel, are you here?
>
> Lynn, Michel built some that he uses in Norway. Looks
> like they work well for him too. Oh, and he has a
> Jabber engine too.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to get peoples opinions on skis for a Model
>> IV. I know Skystar
>> offered them, but not (I don't think) in the
>> wheel-penetration type
>> that I am interested in. We don't get enough snow
>> around here (Lower
>> Michigan) to warrant full skis...that is,
>> non-penetration skis. But if
>> we get our normal amount, my strip will be snowed
>> over, while most of
>> the paved strips will be cleared of snow, and I
>> wouldn't be able to go
>> there....well, you get the idea. I'd like to hear
>> some dialogue about
>> what is involved in flying with skis, problems
>> encountered, etc. I am
>> thinking of building my own skis of the
>> wheel-penetration type, or
>> perhaps buying if a pair is available. I need a
>> project, so building is
>> preferred.
>>
>> Lynn
>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
>
Message 13
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There is a guy on the Yahoo-avid list who operated for years in California
where 10% eth has been in use for years. He always pre mixed his fuel
(R582) and operated for years with no problems. He now has a nice new Jab
and is still using MOGAS but now he puts just a little oil in the tanks to
cut the action of the Ethanol on the fillers of his composite tanks.
It seems that the ethanol is more willing to bond with oil than resin.
There are a few other problems with Eth some of which include vapour locks,
increased moisture in the fuel which can cause carb ice and possible
separation of the ethanol from the gas ( you could find yourself with pure
Ethanol in your engine).
The down side of mixing the oil in with the gas is it tends to lower the
Octane rating a tad. I think it is probably safe enough to use as long as
you take a few precautions.
First I wouldn't leave gas in my wing tanks where they can absorb moisture
form the air for days on end. If you don't expect to fly for a week or
more de-fuel your tanks and put the gas into sealed containers.
Always buy your fuel at the busiest gas station in town. Some of these
stations will get fresh gas almost every night.
For two stroke engines premix the gas, for four stroke engines mix about
300-500:1 ( half a cup to ten gal Approx) of two stroke oil in with the gas.
If the engine gets really smoky you're using too much oil.
For two stroke engines it is hard to recommend the use of 100LL only because
the lead can plate out on the roller bearings on the crankshaft. (Not good)
Both two stroke and four stroke engines will require more work on keeping
the spark plugs clean. ( Just a pain in the keester) Two stroke engines may
require decarbonising of the rings at shorter intervals. (Gotta be done any
way, sooner or later)
There is of course a method of removing Ethanol from your gas. The problem
with that is you can't be sure what other additives may be removed with the
Ethanol and It does require a bit of equipment ( a fair size drum and a
siphon ) and putting your gas on the wagon may be something better done at
home. When you remove the Eth from your gas expect about a 3-5 drop in
Octane rating.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> RAY Gignac
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:53 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
>
>
>
> I live in Maryland, and found out that most if not all the
> gas stations in
> my area are using gas with 10% ethanol added! will this type
> of gas be safe
> to use in the Kitfox tanks?
>
> Also, if I decided to use Avgas will I have to change my fuel
> lines back to
> Aviation fuel lines.
>
> Thanks for any input
>
> Ray
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office Live
> Sweepstakes http://clk..atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
#BR8ES solid cap #3961
These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts store and they will be
able to order them then .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to
go back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES
spark plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site
and can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the
article said basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must
NOT use screw on tips. Where did he buy them?
The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: dav
The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R"
denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of
spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is
mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the
spark plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
Spark plug gap
a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help
starting in very cold conditions
To be avoided:
a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
b.. Screwed-on tips
c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
d..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
That's certainly good advice, Deke, but what if I decided to come up
your way? I've actually got the 20x6.50x8's that came with my kit, so
maybe that's an option. Do you suppose that size would work?
That option would not fulfill my need for a project, though...hmmm. : )
Lynn
On Thursday, December 7, 2006, at 07:44 AM, Fox5flyer wrote:
>
> Lynn, you might consider just not using skis, but instead, put on
> bigger
> balloon tires. They'll ride over some pretty deep snow with no
> problem.
> It's a lot simpler. Now if you had the snow down there that we have
> up here
> it would be a different story.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:46 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis for Kitfox's
>
>
>>
>> I'd like to get peoples opinions on skis for a Model IV. I know
>> Skystar
>> offered them, but not (I don't think) in the wheel-penetration type
>> that I am interested in. We don't get enough snow around here (Lower
>> Michigan) to warrant full skis...that is, non-penetration skis. But if
>> we get our normal amount, my strip will be snowed over, while most of
>> the paved strips will be cleared of snow, and I wouldn't be able to go
>> there....well, you get the idea. I'd like to hear some dialogue about
>> what is involved in flying with skis, problems encountered, etc. I am
>> thinking of building my own skis of the wheel-penetration type, or
>> perhaps buying if a pair is available. I need a project, so building
>> is
>> preferred.
>>
>> Lynn
>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Dave,
I guess we are never too old to learn something new. I've done some
web searching and do find references to "aviation" type (solid tip) NGK
plugs (even a statement from NGK). Another interesting thing I ran
across was a statement by NGK that stated "NONE" of their plugs are
recommended for aviation use. About half of what you read on things
like this are "liability" statements from different manufactures.
When I was building, I went into a business that sold nylon webbing.
I had an idea of fabricating my own seat belts. When I mentioned
airplane, the store salesman "actually" refused to sell me the webbing.
I've always used the standard auto store NGK's but do crimp the caps
to the threads. Another thing that I discussed with a Rotax Center
(name unmentioned) was proper gapping of the plugs out of the box. If
you bend an electrode from .030" to .018" you don't get a good parallel
gap. I started placing the plug in a vice and very gently tapping the
electrode at a 45 degree angle. This helped the gapping to give a
better parallel fit. As I said, I discussed this with a very well know
Rotax Center and we agreed it was a possible good approach?????
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Don, I buy all plugs from Rotax distributor. I am not exactly sure
why it is like this
I would suggest Bob Robertson as I have used him with excellent
service.
Down south any R
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Old Subject? AVGAS and 582 |
Dave
I have run rotaxes for hundreads of hours and torn down numerous engines and
have not found any problem with running 100LL . the teardowns were for a
150-200 hour decarb . Never for a failure . I have never had a problen with
lead buildup on the plugs running NGK BR8ES or B8ES solid cap Stock number
3683-3961 plugs. I do keep my engine jetted for the conditions on a annual
basis . My engines run from 5800 -6300 rpm most of the time in flight .
Yes avgas is more expensive but much easier to get at FBO's so that is what
i run. In the hot climates of the south here regular gasoline does not last
anytime at all with out stinking bad and starting to varnish up. Stale gas
and varnish do not go good in a airplane or any engine .
Each to there own on what they want to run but I am running avgs .
Experience has shown no detrimental harm at all ever on any engine I have
run on avgas.
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Old Subject? AVGAS and 582
>
> John , I posted a link earlier on spark plus and it has stated there
> not to use avgas?
> http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm
> Aviation Fuels
>
> It is possible but not recommended to use 100LL AVGAS, since the the lead
> content will increase deposits in the combustion chamber and on crankshaft
> ball bearings, inducing premature wear. Its higher octane rating does not
> bring any significant advantage to the engine's operation.
>
>
> Now from experience I will tell you that av gas will hold it's octane
> longer that auto gas, but I have used 3 month old auto gas without an
> issue. Temporary use of Avgas in 2 strokes will most likely casue any
> damages but I would caution on using it on a regular basis. Besides auto
> ga a bit cheaper :)
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
>
>
>>
>> Ray the ethanol will slowly dissolve the fuellines in the fox or anyother
>> plane with rubber fuel lines . I use 100ll with my 582 and have had no
>> problems at all . No do not change the lines to mil spec , Just use what
>> u have with 100LL,
>>
>> John Perry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot@msn.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:22 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I live in Maryland, and found out that most if not all the gas stations
>>> in my area are using gas with 10% ethanol added! will this type of gas
>>> be safe to use in the Kitfox tanks?
>>>
>>> Also, if I decided to use Avgas will I have to change my fuel lines back
>>> to Aviation fuel lines.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any input
>>>
>>> Ray
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office Live
>>> Sweepstakes http://clk..atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Another 5 Coming Alive |
After more years & dollars than I care to mention, my Series 5 TD with Lyc
O-235 is scheduled for an airworthiness inspection this weekend. The D.A.R.
said I need to have all the instruments marked to pass. I'm finding most
of the info for the engine instruments, but am sorta hurting for airspeed
markings.
Could anyone out there with the same set up tell me what you are using?
Or, if the information is right in front of me in the manual, could you tell
me where I can find it?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks,
Grant Krueger
San Luis Obispo, CA
_________________________________________________________________
Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday
cash from MSN today!
http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
John,
Thanks, that clears this up for me. I went to the NGK web site and
sure enough, your numbers pulled up a plug that said "SOLID" behind the
plug number. Good information. Learn something new every day. Who
said this list didn't produce good information. Sorry Dave, I was about
to doubt you.
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: john perry
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
#BR8ES solid cap #3961
These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts store and they will
be able to order them then .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have
to go back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES
spark plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site
and can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the
article said basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must
NOT use screw on tips. Where did he buy them?
The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: dav
The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R"
denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of
spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is
mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the
spark plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
Spark plug gap
a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help
starting in very cold conditions
To be avoided:
a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
b.. Screwed-on tips
c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
d..
------------------------------------------------------------------------
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
Message 20
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| Subject: | TRY FIT GROVE L.G. FROM MODEL V TO IV |
HELLO: LIST
I HAVE A GROVE L.G. FROM A MODEL V ///
SOMEBODY SOLD ME AND SAID THAT IT COULD FIT TO MY CLASSIC IV ....
I CAN NOT FIT WITH PARTS INCLUDED ///
DO ANY HAVE IDEA TO FIT IT?????
I HAVE ORIGINAL 8" WHEELS/////
DO THAT INSTALLED GROVE L.G. IN CLASSIC IV//
I DO NOT WANT TO LOSS THIS L.G. AND $$$///
REGARDS..
PEDRO PEREZ
VERNERFOX
>>From: "PEDRO PEREZ" <5324@PRTC.NET>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
_________________________________________________________________
> Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
> list.
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
Lynn sez:
> That option would not fulfill my need for a project, though...hmmm. : )
>
OK Lynn..... I could not resist the opener.
Want to consider a model 1 restoration? (just for fun) :)
A ski option you may want to consider
- Full Lotus floats? .... thought that doesn't provide an answer for pavement ....I
suppose it might be more forgiving in snow mobile tracks.
do not archive
--------
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79846#79846
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Another 5 Coming Alive |
140 vne red line top of yellow,120 vno top of green start of yellow, top
of the white flap range 80 and the bottom will be about 44 with that
engine, and the bottom of the green will be about 49 but you will have
to adjust when you do your actual flight testing. It will depend on your
static system more than anything. I think maneuver speed is 109 which I
mark on the airspeed indicator. (all in MPH) I think these are the right
numbers. Jump in if I am wrong.
Tinne maha wrote:
>
> After more years & dollars than I care to mention, my Series 5 TD with
> Lyc O-235 is scheduled for an airworthiness inspection this weekend.
> The D.A.R. said I need to have all the instruments marked to pass.
> I'm finding most of the info for the engine instruments, but am sorta
> hurting for airspeed markings.
>
> Could anyone out there with the same set up tell me what you are using?
>
> Or, if the information is right in front of me in the manual, could
> you tell me where I can find it?
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant Krueger
> San Luis Obispo, CA
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in
> Holiday cash from MSN today!
> http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Skis for Kitfox's |
Lynn, I ran my model 2 for a couple winters on the same tires (20s) that you
have and for up to six inches it was no problem. Heavy wet stuff may be a
bit different. If you decide to come up here and the snow is deep I'll plow
it for you! Actually, the skis are nice. The last two years I had my 2 I
ran it on skis that I made for it and I could go just about anywhere with
them, including paved runways. Up here, most airstrips have a place for
landing on skis, usually paralleling the active so there are lots of options
on skis, including the frozen lakes. Another thing about skis is that the
airplane tends to track straighter with less rudder input, and on a 2,
that's a big deal. Skis do make it a pain moving in and out of the hangar,
but there are ways around that. If just plan on hanging around "down south"
the fat tires will probably work for the most part. A good rule is to
always drag the landing area first to look for anything that may cause your
day to go bad.
Unfortunately, I let the skis go with the airplane when I sold it and now
the airplane is down in Mexico somewhere. I don't know what happened to the
skis. Should have kept 'em. They were one of my best productions.
Deke
Mikado Michigan
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis for Kitfox's
>
> That's certainly good advice, Deke, but what if I decided to come up
> your way? I've actually got the 20x6.50x8's that came with my kit, so
> maybe that's an option. Do you suppose that size would work?
>
> That option would not fulfill my need for a project, though...hmmm. : )
>
> Lynn
>
> On Thursday, December 7, 2006, at 07:44 AM, Fox5flyer wrote:
>
> >
> > Lynn, you might consider just not using skis, but instead, put on
> > bigger
> > balloon tires. They'll ride over some pretty deep snow with no
> > problem.
> > It's a lot simpler. Now if you had the snow down there that we have
> > up here
> > it would be a different story.
> > Deke
Message 24
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| Subject: | Another 5 Coming Alive |
GRANT,
Congrats and good luck !! I'm sure it will be a great day. The following
is from the current manual.
CAUTION
The airspeed indicator will need to be properly marked for the operating
range for the Kitfox Super Sport. These marks allow the pilot to quickly
verify certain operating parameters in flight. Four colored bands are used
which are described below.
RED LINE - 140 mph. The red mark is called the Never Exceed Speed (VNE).
This airspeed should never be exceeded.
YELLOW ARC - 120 to 139 mph. The yellow band is an airspeed range that
should not be used unless in smooth air and then only with caution.
GREEN ARC - ?? to 119 mph. The green band is the normal airspeed operating
range for the aircraft. The bottom of the green arc represents the airspeed
that the aircraft will stall at under the following conditions: level
flight, idle throttle, no flaps, and at gross weight. This speed must be
determined during flight testing. The top of the green arc is the maximum
structural cruising speed.
WHITE ARC - ?? to 80 mph. The white band is the flap operating airspeed
range for the aircraft. The bottom of the white arc represents the airspeed
that the aircraft will stall at under the following conditions: level
flight, idle throttle, full flaps, and at gross weight. This speed must also
be determined during flight testing. The top of the white arc is the maximum
speed at which the flaps may be used.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tinne maha
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:37 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Another 5 Coming Alive
After more years & dollars than I care to mention, my Series 5 TD with Lyc
O-235 is scheduled for an airworthiness inspection this weekend. The D.A.R.
said I need to have all the instruments marked to pass. I'm finding most
of the info for the engine instruments, but am sorta hurting for airspeed
markings.
Could anyone out there with the same set up tell me what you are using?
Or, if the information is right in front of me in the manual, could you tell
me where I can find it?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks,
Grant Krueger
San Luis Obispo, CA
_________________________________________________________________
Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday
cash from MSN today!
http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us
--
--
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's more info |
Dave, I would like to get a copy of your kitfox Ski information please.
Tom Jones,
Ellensburg, WA
nahsikhs(at)elltel.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79861#79861
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Don, No problem.
I took a pic today , not the best but you can clearly see the flat side
on alum screw tip here http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.html
Hope this helps you all and What site do you see the NGK number working
at ? I just buy from Rotax with other orders.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
John,
Thanks, that clears this up for me. I went to the NGK web site
and sure enough, your numbers pulled up a plug that said "SOLID" behind
the plug number. Good information. Learn something new every day. Who
said this list didn't produce good information. Sorry Dave, I was about
to doubt you.
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: john perry
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
#BR8ES solid cap #3961
These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts store and they
will be able to order them then .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have
to go back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES
spark plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site
and can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the
article said basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must
NOT use screw on tips. Where did he buy them?
The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: dav
The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R"
denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of
spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is
mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the
spark plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
Spark plug gap
a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help
starting in very cold conditions
To be avoided:
a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers'
equivalents
b.. Screwed-on tips
c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
d..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
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href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Hi Don, Guy and Dave.
The solid core plugs listed on NGK's web site are strictly automotive plugs.
They are markey on each box "not for Aircraft use" via the standard icon.
They come from the factory gapped at .0035. they are very hard to re-gap to
.018 as the ground tab will extend well past the electrode when re-gapped to
.018-.020".
Plug ground tbs should be parallel to the electrode, not simply bent down so
that one side is gapped correctly.
We tried these plugs and found them to be really hard to gap properly.
The plugs you get from your Rotax Service Centers/Repair Stations are
pre-gapped to .018". The ground tab is a bit shorter on these than the
automotibe plugs so the eng of the ground tab
is adjacent to the edge of the electrode when it is set parallel and at
.018/.020"
Gosh, I hope this made sense..... The automotive plugs gapped by simply
tapping down the ground tab so it is only .018 away from the electrode will
not last near as long as the "aircraft plugs (897-055).
Just my two cents.
BTW....You can hit up your supplier for a better price if you order in bulk.
(Dave does...8^)
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
John,
Thanks, that clears this up for me. I went to the NGK web site and sure
enough, your numbers pulled up a plug that said "SOLID" behind the plug
number. Good information. Learn something new every day. Who said this
list didn't produce good information. Sorry Dave, I was about to doubt you.
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: john perry
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
#BR8ES solid cap #3961
These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts store and they will be
able to order them then .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to go
back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES spark
plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site and can't
find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the article said
basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must NOT use screw on
tips. Where did he buy them?
The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: dav
The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R" denotes
a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of spark plugs
with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is mandatory. The latter
can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the spark plug connector cap,
creating an ignition failure.
Spark plug gap
a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help starting
in very cold conditions
To be avoided:
a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
b.. Screwed-on tips
c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
d..
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Another 5 Coming Alive |
At 06:36 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>Could anyone out there with the same set up tell me what you are using?
>
>Or, if the information is right in front of me in the manual, could you
tell
>me where I can find it?
FAR Part 23 offers some indication of cockpit markings beyond the
"EXPERIMENTAL" and "not certified" stickers required. However, I can't say
that FAR part 23 applies to an experimental aircraft so I can't say these
markings are mandatory. I think they're a good idea and didn't find any of
them onerous. Since you're almost done, (congratulations, by the way,) my
present to you is pulling the applicable sections and posting them below.
GOOD LUCK!
Markings And Placards
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=A7 23.1541 General.
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(a) The airplane must contain=AD
(1) The markings and placards specified in =A7=A723.1545 through 23.1567;
and
(2) Any additional information, instrument markings, and placards required
for the safe operation if it has unusual design, operating, or handling
characteristics.
(b) Each marking and placard prescribed in paragraph (a) of this section=AD
(1) Must be displayed in a conspicuous place; and
(2) May not be easily erased, disfigured, or obscured.
(c) For airplanes which are to be certificated in more than one category=AD
(1) The applicant must select one category upon which the placards and
markings are to be based; and
(2) The placards and marking information for all categories in which the
airplane is to be certificated must be furnished in the Airplane Flight
Manual.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964; 30 FR 258, Jan. 9, 1965, as
amended by Amdt. 23'21, 43 FR 2319, Jan. 16, 1978]
=A7 23.1543 Instrument markings: General.
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For each instrument=AD
(a) When markings are on the cover glass of the instrument, there must be
means to maintain the correct alignment of the glass cover with the face of
the dial; and
(b) Each arc and line must be wide enough and located to be clearly visible
to the pilot.
(c) All related instruments must be calibrated in compatible units.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964; 30 FR 258, Jan. 9, 1965, as
amended by Amdt. 23'50, 61 FR 5192, Feb. 9, 1996]
=A7 23.1545 Airspeed indicator.
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(a) Each airspeed indicator must be marked as specified in paragraph (b) of
this section, with the marks located at the corresponding indicated
airspeeds.
(b) The following markings must be made:
(1) For the never-exceed speed VNE, a radial red line.
(2) For the caution range, a yellow arc extending from the red line
specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section to the upper limit of the
green arc specified in paragraph (b)(3) of this section.
(3) For the normal operating range, a green arc with the lower limit at VS1
with maximum weight and with landing gear and wing flaps retracted, and the
upper limit at the maximum structural cruising speed VNO established under
=A723.1505(b).
(4) For the flap operating range, a white arc with the lower limit at VS0
at the maximum weight, and the upper limit at the flaps-extended speed VFE
established under =A723.1511.
(5) For reciprocating multiengine-powered airplanes of 6,000 pounds or less
maximum weight, for the speed at which compliance has been shown with
=A723.69(b) relating to rate of climb at maximum weight and at sea level, a
blue radial line.
(6) For reciprocating multiengine-powered airplanes of 6,000 pounds or less
maximum weight, for the maximum value of minimum control speed, VMC,
(one-engine-inoperative) determined under =A723.149(b), a red radial line.
(c) If VNE or VNO vary with altitude, there must be means to indicate to
the pilot the appropriate limitations throughout the operating altitude
range.
(d) Paragraphs (b)(1) through (b)(3) and paragraph (c) of this section do
not apply to aircraft for which a maximum operating speed VMO/MMO is
established under =A723.1505(c). For those aircraft there must either be a
maximum allowable airspeed indication showing the variation of VMO/MMO with
altitude or compressibility limitations (as appropriate), or a radial red
line marking for VMO/MMO must be made at lowest value of VMO/MMO
established for any altitude up to the maximum operating altitude for the
airplane.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 23'3, 30
FR
14240, Nov. 13, 1965; Amdt. 23'7, 34 FR 13097, Aug. 13, 1969; Amdt. 23'2
3,
43 FR 50593, Oct. 30, 1978; Amdt. 23'50, 61 FR 5193, Feb. 9, 1996]
=A7 23.1547 Magnetic direction indicator.
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(a) A placard meeting the requirements of this section must be installed on
or near the magnetic direction indicator.
(b) The placard must show the calibration of the instrument in level flight
with the engines operating.
(c) The placard must state whether the calibration was made with radio
receivers on or off.
(d) Each calibration reading must be in terms of magnetic headings in not
more than 30 degree increments.
(e) If a magnetic nonstabilized direction indicator can have a deviation of
more than 10 degrees caused by the operation of electrical equipment, the
placard must state which electrical loads, or combination of loads, would
cause a deviation of more than 10 degrees when turned on.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964; 30 FR 258, Jan. 9, 1965, as
amended by Amdt. 23'20, 42 FR 36969, July 18, 1977]
=A7 23.1549 Powerplant and auxiliary power unit instruments.
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For each required powerplant and auxiliary power unit instrument, as
appropriate to the type of instruments=AD
(a) Each maximum and, if applicable, minimum safe operating limit must be
marked with a red radial or a red line;
(b) Each normal operating range must be marked with a green arc or green
line, not extending beyond the maximum and minimum safe limits;
(c) Each takeoff and precautionary range must be marked with a yellow arc
or a yellow line; and
(d) Each engine, auxiliary power unit, or propeller range that is
restricted because of excessive vibration stresses must be marked with red
arcs or red lines.
[Amdt. 23'12, 41 FR 55466, Dec. 20, 1976, as amended by Amdt. 23'28, 47
FR
13315, Mar. 29, 1982; Amdt. 23'45, 58 FR 42166, Aug. 6, 1993]
=A7 23.1551 Oil quantity indicator.
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Each oil quantity indicator must be marked in sufficient increments to
indicate readily and accurately the quantity of oil.
=A7 23.1553 Fuel quantity indicator.
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A red radial line must be marked on each indicator at the calibrated zero
reading, as specified in =A723.1337(b)(1).
[Doc. No. 27807, 61 FR 5193, Feb. 9, 1996]
=A7 23.1555 Control markings.
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(a) Each cockpit control, other than primary flight controls and simple
push button type starter switches, must be plainly marked as to its
function and method of operation.
(b) Each secondary control must be suitably marked.
(c) For powerplant fuel controls=AD
(1) Each fuel tank selector control must be marked to indicate the position
corresponding to each tank and to each existing cross feed position;
(2) If safe operation requires the use of any tanks in a specific sequence,
that sequence must be marked on or near the selector for those tanks;
(3) The conditions under which the full amount of usable fuel in any
restricted usage fuel tank can safely be used must be stated on a placard
adjacent to the selector valve for that tank; and
(4) Each valve control for any engine of a multiengine airplane must be
marked to indicate the position corresponding to each engine controlled.
(d) Usable fuel capacity must be marked as follows:
(1) For fuel systems having no selector controls, the usable fuel capacity
of the system must be indicated at the fuel quantity indicator.
(2) For fuel systems having selector controls, the usable fuel capacity
available at each selector control position must be indicated near the
selector control.
(e) For accessory, auxiliary, and emergency controls=AD
(1) If retractable landing gear is used, the indicator required by =A723.729
must be marked so that the pilot can, at any time, ascertain that the
wheels are secured in the extreme positions; and
(2) Each emergency control must be red and must be marked as to method of
operation. No control other than an emergency control, or a control that
serves an emergency function in addition to its other functions, shall be
this color.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964; 30 FR 258, Jan. 9, 1965, as
amended by Amdt. 23'21, 43 FR 2319, Jan. 16, 1978; Amdt. 23'50, 61 FR
5193,
Feb. 9, 1996]
=A7 23.1557 Miscellaneous markings and placards.
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(a) Baggage and cargo compartments, and ballast location. Each baggage and
cargo compartment, and each ballast location, must have a placard stating
any limitations on contents, including weight, that are necessary under the
loading requirements.
(b) Seats. If the maximum allowable weight to be carried in a seat is less
than 170 pounds, a placard stating the lesser weight must be permanently
attached to the seat structure.
(c) Fuel, oil, and coolant filler openings. The following apply:
(1) Fuel filter openings must be marked at or near the filler cover with=AD
(i) For reciprocating engine-powered airplanes=AD
(A) The word =93Avgas=94; and
(B) The minimum fuel grade.
(ii) For turbine engine-powered airplanes=AD
(A) The words =93Jet Fuel=94; and
(B) The permissible fuel designations, or references to the Airplane Flight
Manual (AFM) for permissible fuel designations.
(iii) For pressure fueling systems, the maximum permissible fueling supply
pressure and the maximum permissible defueling pressure.
(2) Oil filler openings must be marked at or near the filler cover with the
word =93Oil=94 and the permissible oil designations, or references to the
Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) for permissible oil designations.
(3) Coolant filler openings must be marked at or near the filler cover with
the word =93Coolant=94.
(d) Emergency exit placards. Each placard and operating control for each
emergency exit must be red. A placard must be near each emergency exit
control and must clearly indicate the location of that exit and its method
of operation.
(e) The system voltage of each direct current installation must be clearly
marked adjacent to its exernal power connection.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964; as amended by Amdt. 23'21, 42
FR 15042, Mar. 17, 1977; Amdt. 23'23, 43 FR 50594, Oct. 30, 1978; Amdt.
23'45, 58 FR 42166, Aug. 6, 1993]
=A7 23.1559 Operating limitations placard.
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(a) There must be a placard in clear view of the pilot stating=AD
(1) That the airplane must be operated in accordance with the Airplane
Flight Manual; and
(2) The certification category of the airplane to which the placards apply.
(b) For airplanes certificated in more than one category, there must be a
placard in clear view of the pilot stating that other limitations are
contained in the Airplane Flight Manual.
(c) There must be a placard in clear view of the pilot that specifies the
kind of operations to which the operation of the airplane is limited or
from which it is prohibited under =A723.1525.
[Doc. No. 27807, 61 FR 5193, Feb. 9, 1996]
=A7 23.1561 Safety equipment.
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(a) Safety equipment must be plainly marked as to method of operation.
(b) Stowage provisions for required safety equipment must be marked for the
benefit of occupants.
=A7 23.1563 Airspeed placards.
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There must be an airspeed placard in clear view of the pilot and as close
as practicable to the airspeed indicator. This placard must list=AD
(a) The operating maneuvering speed, VO; and
(b) The maximum landing gear operating speed VLO.
(c) For reciprocating multiengine-powered airplanes of more than 6,000
pounds maximum weight, and turbine engine-powered airplanes, the maximum
value of the minimum control speed, VMC (one-engine-inoperative) determined
under =A723.149(b).
[Amdt. 23'7, 34 FR 13097, Aug. 13, 1969, as amended by Amdt. 23'45, 58
FR
42166, Aug. 6, 1993; Amdt. 23'50, 61 FR 5193, Feb. 9, 1996]
=A7 23.1567 Flight maneuver placard.
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(a) For normal category airplanes, there must be a placard in front of and
in clear view of the pilot stating: =93No acrobatic maneuvers, including
spins, approved.=94
(b) For utility category airplanes, there must be=AD
(1) A placard in clear view of the pilot stating: =93Acrobatic maneuvers are
limited to the following ___________;=94 (list approved maneuvers and the
recommended entry speed for each); and
(2) For those airplanes that do not meet the spin requirements for
acrobatic category airplanes, an additional placard in clear view of the
pilot stating: =93Spins Prohibited.=94
(c) For acrobatic category airplanes, there must be a placard in clear view
of the pilot listing the approved acrobatic maneuvers and the recommended
entry airspeed for each. If inverted flight maneuvers are not approved, the
placard must bear a notation to this effect.
(d) For acrobatic category airplanes and utility category airplanes
approved for spinning, there must be a placard in clear view of the pilot=AD
(1) Listing the control actions for recovery from spinning maneuvers; and
(2) Stating that recovery must be initiated when spiral characteristics
appear, or after not more than six turns or not more than any greater
number of turns for which the airplane has been certificated.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964; 30 FR 258, Jan. 9, 1965, as
amended by Amdt. 23'13, 37 FR 20023, Sept. 23, 1972; Amdt. 23'21, 43 FR
2319, Jan. 16, 1978; Amdt. 23'50, 61 FR 5193, Feb. 9, 1996]
Guy
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: TRY FIT GROVE L.G. FROM MODEL V TO IV |
If I'm not mistaken Pedro, the S5 Grove gear is larger and heavier to handle
the gross weight of the S5+. I think it attaches differently also. A call
to Robbie Grove will give you the answer you need. Sorry, I don't have his
phone number, but someone here on the list should have it.
Good luck,
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "PEDRO PEREZ" <5324@PRTC.NET>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: TRY FIT GROVE L.G. FROM MODEL V TO IV
>
> HELLO: LIST
>
> I HAVE A GROVE L.G. FROM A MODEL V ///
> SOMEBODY SOLD ME AND SAID THAT IT COULD FIT TO MY CLASSIC IV ....
> I CAN NOT FIT WITH PARTS INCLUDED ///
>
> DO ANY HAVE IDEA TO FIT IT?????
>
> I HAVE ORIGINAL 8" WHEELS/////
>
> DO THAT INSTALLED GROVE L.G. IN CLASSIC IV//
>
> I DO NOT WANT TO LOSS THIS L.G. AND $$$///
>
> REGARDS..
>
> PEDRO PEREZ
> VERNERFOX
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Old Subject? |
Thanks for the reply, think I'm going to switch to 100ll
Ray
>From: wwillyard@aol.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
>Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 07:39:29 -0500
>
>Ray,
>I switched back to 100LL about a year ago and have not noticed any problems
>with the automotive grade fuel lines so far. I will continue to monitor the
>lines but suspect that there will not be a problem as avgas does not have
>as many additives as auto fuel.
>
>Bill W.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: kitfoxpilot@msn.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 7:22 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Old Subject?
>
>
>
>I live in Maryland, and found out that most if not all the gas stations in
>my area are using gas with 10% ethanol added! will this type of gas be safe
>to use in the Kitfox tanks?
>
>Also, if I decided to use Avgas will I have to change my fuel lines back to
>Aviation fuel lines.
>
>Thanks for any input
>
>Ray
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes enter the Microsoft Office Live
>Sweepstakes http://clk..atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
>
>==========
>==========
>==========
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>ee AOL Mail and more.
_________________________________________________________________
Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday
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Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Bob, Take a peek at this pic i took this am
http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.html
I have seen this time and time again with those screw top plugs.
I will be calling you soon for some Carb sockets for abunch of 582's here
.
Are they still 21$ CDN ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> Hi Don, Guy and Dave.
>
> The solid core plugs listed on NGK's web site are strictly automotive
> plugs. They are markey on each box "not for Aircraft use" via the standard
> icon.
> They come from the factory gapped at .0035. they are very hard to re-gap
> to .018 as the ground tab will extend well past the electrode when
> re-gapped to .018-.020".
> Plug ground tbs should be parallel to the electrode, not simply bent down
> so that one side is gapped correctly.
> We tried these plugs and found them to be really hard to gap properly.
> The plugs you get from your Rotax Service Centers/Repair Stations are
> pre-gapped to .018". The ground tab is a bit shorter on these than the
> automotibe plugs so the eng of the ground tab
> is adjacent to the edge of the electrode when it is set parallel and at
> .018/.020"
> Gosh, I hope this made sense..... The automotive plugs gapped by simply
> tapping down the ground tab so it is only .018 away from the electrode
> will not last near as long as the "aircraft plugs (897-055).
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
> BTW....You can hit up your supplier for a better price if you order in
> bulk. (Dave does...8^)
>
> regards
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
> www.aerocontrols.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
>
> John,
> Thanks, that clears this up for me. I went to the NGK web site and
> sure enough, your numbers pulled up a plug that said "SOLID" behind the
> plug number. Good information. Learn something new every day. Who said
> this list didn't produce good information. Sorry Dave, I was about to
> doubt you.
>
> Don Smythe
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: john perry
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
>
> Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
> #BR8ES solid cap #3961
> These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts store and they will be
> able to order them then .
>
> John Perry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Smythe
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
>
> Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to
> go back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES
> spark plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site and
> can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the article said
> basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must NOT use screw
> on tips. Where did he buy them?
> The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
> crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dav
> The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R"
> denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of
> spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is
> mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the spark
> plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
>
> Spark plug gap
>
> a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
> b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
> c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help
> starting in very cold conditions
> To be avoided:
>
> a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
> b.. Screwed-on tips
> c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
> d..
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Old Subject? |
IF you use 100ll than you should put in tcp plus, make sure it's the plus, it has
a carbon cleaning added. I think John sells it.
--------
kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79886#79886
Message 33
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| Subject: | Skis for Kitfox's |
Stay on good solid ice ( preferably get a ground report ) or give snow a few
days to settle then you shouldn't have a problem with snowmobile tracks.
Timber jack tracks are another thing! They can be two or three feet deep
even in settled snow.
A number of years ago a small bush firm had to transport the body of a
deceased fellow along with supplies to a remote island outport in the
winter. The plane they were using, a DHC Beaver or Norseman, was pretty
well loaded so they had to tie the casket crossways through the two open
doors in the back of the plane and fly the short hop that way.
The pilot got in touch with some one in the community by radio well before
the flight and told him which frozen bog he would landing on. He requested
that they put a line of marker evergreen saplings down where he was supposed
to land so he wouldn't end up in a drift or bog hole. The guys in that
community being excellent woodsmen had for many years marked weak ice and
holes with saplings. The orders got mixed up and the boys put the saplings
on just about every obstruction around, including the straight ridge of a
particularly long large drift.
You got it the plane landed on or more correctly in the drift... Spun like a
top... The Skipper and his box went flying again and landed feet first into
a big rock, where it broke open spewing the dearly departed into or onto the
frozen mire.. All this happened right in front of the bereaved family who
could only pick up the skipper and stuff him into what was left of his box
and bury him.
The moral of the story: When flying skis make sure the report from the
ground is accurate.
Please : Do not archive this post It is intended only to promote safety in
Kitfox flying.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 10:21 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis for Kitfox's
>
>
>
> Thanks, Kurt...yes I'm in touch with Michel. I have his drawing, and
> some nice pictures of his installation. I also got some picture off
> Sportflight.com, which were helpful. Now I just have to
> decide whether
> or not to do it, and how much bother they are in use. I've
> been getting
> some input from local fliers, including my flight instructor,
> and some
> of the stories they tell is making me have second thoughts
> about "going
> skiing." Things like running across snowmobile tracks, hidden
> obstructions, etc. I know that if I stay on known grass strips, or
> paved runways, I *should* be ok, but I've seen these snowmobile guys
> tear up all over the place, leaving their ruts in their wake. I'm
> trying to get some input as to the feasibility of the whole
> matter....I'd hate to go two or three months without flying.
>
> Lynn
> On Thursday, December 7, 2006, at 01:09 AM, kurt schrader wrote:
>
> > <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Michel, are you here?
> >
> > Lynn, Michel built some that he uses in Norway. Looks
> > like they work well for him too. Oh, and he has a
> > Jabber engine too.
> >
> > Kurt S.
> >
> > --- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to get peoples opinions on skis for a Model
> >> IV. I know Skystar
> >> offered them, but not (I don't think) in the
> >> wheel-penetration type
> >> that I am interested in. We don't get enough snow
> >> around here (Lower
> >> Michigan) to warrant full skis...that is,
> >> non-penetration skis. But if
> >> we get our normal amount, my strip will be snowed
> >> over, while most of
> >> the paved strips will be cleared of snow, and I
> >> wouldn't be able to go
> >> there....well, you get the idea. I'd like to hear
> >> some dialogue about
> >> what is involved in flying with skis, problems
> >> encountered, etc. I am
> >> thinking of building my own skis of the
> >> wheel-penetration type, or
> >> perhaps buying if a pair is available. I need a
> >> project, so building is
> >> preferred.
> >>
> >> Lynn
> >> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
On Dec 7, 2006, at 2:50 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> some of the stories they tell is making me have second thoughts about
> "going skiing."
I still haven't landed on skis on unprepared terrain, Lynn. That is, if
you don't count the snow covered shoulders of my homeplace asphalt
runway, just for practice. Lots of stuff can hide under the snow. But
we have winter fly-ins where we land on frozen lakes there where there
is already people on the ground and we know it's safe.
Deke has a point that big balloon tyres will get you on much snow
covered surface. But snow, if a bit loose, can be tricky as it's an
enormous drag on the tyres/skis. That makes the plane feel like tipping
over when landing. The nice thing with the skis, then, is that it has
retaining wires that allow the plane to tip not more than 5 degrees
nose down, from level.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
I may try the big tires first, before committing to the skis....thanks,
Michel.
Lynn
On Thursday, December 7, 2006, at 01:08 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 2006, at 2:50 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> some of the stories they tell is making me have second thoughts about
>> "going skiing."
>
> I still haven't landed on skis on unprepared terrain, Lynn. That is,
> if you don't count the snow covered shoulders of my homeplace asphalt
> runway, just for practice. Lots of stuff can hide under the snow. But
> we have winter fly-ins where we land on frozen lakes there where there
> is already people on the ground and we know it's safe.
>
> Deke has a point that big balloon tyres will get you on much snow
> covered surface. But snow, if a bit loose, can be tricky as it's an
> enormous drag on the tyres/skis. That makes the plane feel like
> tipping over when landing. The nice thing with the skis, then, is that
> it has retaining wires that allow the plane to tip not more than 5
> degrees nose down, from level.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
Deke-
I'll let you know if/when to fire up the plow. : ) Thanks for the
offer. Gotta fine-tune the cabin heater, and maybe try the larger
tires, then try some tests around here first. The hangar-moving is the
reason that I'd rather go with either large tires or the wheel skis.
And recall that my hangar is a dirt floor, so a dolly for moving the
plane is probably out of the question.
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, December 7, 2006, at 10:47 AM, Fox5flyer wrote:
>
> Lynn, I ran my model 2 for a couple winters on the same tires (20s)
> that you
> have and for up to six inches it was no problem. Heavy wet stuff may
> be a
> bit different. If you decide to come up here and the snow is deep
> I'll plow
> it for you! Actually, the skis are nice. The last two years I had my
> 2 I
> ran it on skis that I made for it and I could go just about anywhere
> with
> them, including paved runways. Up here, most airstrips have a place
> for
> landing on skis, usually paralleling the active so there are lots of
> options
> on skis, including the frozen lakes. Another thing about skis is that
> the
> airplane tends to track straighter with less rudder input, and on a 2,
> that's a big deal. Skis do make it a pain moving in and out of the
> hangar,
> but there are ways around that. If just plan on hanging around "down
> south"
> the fat tires will probably work for the most part. A good rule is to
> always drag the landing area first to look for anything that may cause
> your
> day to go bad.
> Unfortunately, I let the skis go with the airplane when I sold it and
> now
> the airplane is down in Mexico somewhere. I don't know what happened
> to the
> skis. Should have kept 'em. They were one of my best productions.
> Deke
> Mikado Michigan
>
>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis for Kitfox's
>
>
>>
>> That's certainly good advice, Deke, but what if I decided to come up
>> your way? I've actually got the 20x6.50x8's that came with my kit, so
>> maybe that's an option. Do you suppose that size would work?
>>
>> That option would not fulfill my need for a project, though...hmmm. :
>> )
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>> On Thursday, December 7, 2006, at 07:44 AM, Fox5flyer wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Lynn, you might consider just not using skis, but instead, put on
>>> bigger
>>> balloon tires. They'll ride over some pretty deep snow with no
>>> problem.
>>> It's a lot simpler. Now if you had the snow down there that we have
>>> up here
>>> it would be a different story.
>>> Deke
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
#BR8ES solid cap #3961
************
Hello Bob,
OK, you're right, I'm confused. The above was posted this morning
giving the NGK plug numbers. I checked their web site and they are listed
as "solid" cap I guess. Are you saying the above are for auto use only and
not aircraft. Are you also saying that NGK sells a special aircraft plug
that is gapped at .018 and can be bought through Rotax Centers? I remember
talking to you years ago about tapping down those .030 plugs to .018. This
is the first time I've ever heard of an NGK plug that is for aircraft only.
Help me out here I need to get some plugs soon.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> Hi Don, Guy and Dave.
>
> The solid core plugs listed on NGK's web site are strictly automotive
> plugs. They are markey on each box "not for Aircraft use" via the standard
> icon.
> They come from the factory gapped at .0035. they are very hard to re-gap
> to .018 as the ground tab will extend well past the electrode when
> re-gapped to .018-.020".
> Plug ground tbs should be parallel to the electrode, not simply bent down
> so that one side is gapped correctly.
> We tried these plugs and found them to be really hard to gap properly.
> The plugs you get from your Rotax Service Centers/Repair Stations are
> pre-gapped to .018". The ground tab is a bit shorter on these than the
> automotibe plugs so the eng of the ground tab
> is adjacent to the edge of the electrode when it is set parallel and at
> .018/.020"
> Gosh, I hope this made sense..... The automotive plugs gapped by simply
> tapping down the ground tab so it is only .018 away from the electrode
> will not last near as long as the "aircraft plugs (897-055).
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
> BTW....You can hit up your supplier for a better price if you order in
> bulk. (Dave does...8^)
>
> regards
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
> www.aerocontrols.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
>
> John,
> Thanks, that clears this up for me. I went to the NGK web site and
> sure enough, your numbers pulled up a plug that said "SOLID" behind the
> plug number. Good information. Learn something new every day. Who said
> this list didn't produce good information. Sorry Dave, I was about to
> doubt you.
>
> Don Smythe
> Do Not Archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: john perry
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:25 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
>
> Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
> #BR8ES solid cap #3961
> These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts store and they will be
> able to order them then .
>
> John Perry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Smythe
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
>
> Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to
> go back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES
> spark plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site and
> can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the article said
> basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must NOT use screw
> on tips. Where did he buy them?
> The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
> crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dav
> The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R"
> denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of
> spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is
> mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the spark
> plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
>
> Spark plug gap
>
> a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
> b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
> c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help
> starting in very cold conditions
> To be avoided:
>
> a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
> b.. Screwed-on tips
> c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
> d..
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Here are plugs from AC Spruce
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ngkplugs.php
Here are plugs from CPS
http://www.rotaxparts.net/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=985
Neither of these two Companies address the solid tip or the pre-gapping
of .018". Are both of these the standard Auto plug and not the ones we
need for aviation?
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: john perry
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
#BR8ES solid cap #3961
These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts store and they will
be able to order them then .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have
to go back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES
spark plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site
and can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the
article said basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must
NOT use screw on tips. Where did he buy them?
The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: dav
The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R"
denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of
spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is
mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the
spark plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
Spark plug gap
a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help
starting in very cold conditions
To be avoided:
a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
b.. Screwed-on tips
c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
d..
------------------------------------------------------------------------
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Don
I had them looked up at the local auto store. I will look and get the
number off the box and get back with you. If your order your plugs from CPS
, they will be the solid tips.
Dwight
At 07:43 AM 12/7/2006 -0500, you wrote:
> Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to go
> back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES spark
> plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site and can't
> find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the article said
> basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must NOT use screw
> on tips. Where did he buy them?
> The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
> crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
>
>Don Smythe
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:dave@cfisher.com>dav
>
>The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R" denotes a
>resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of spark plugs
>with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is mandatory. The latter
>can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the spark plug connector cap,
>creating an ignition failure.
>
>Spark plug gap
> * Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
> * Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
> * The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help starting in
> very cold conditions
>
>To be avoided:
> * Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
> * Screwed-on tips
> * Unverified spark plug gaps
> ----------
>
>
:31 PM
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Sorry, I'm still out to lunch on this subject. According to Bob
Robertson the solid core plugs are automotive only. You say CPS will
deliver solid tips. Solid tips/solid core plugs (same or different).
This also doesn't address the plug gaps that are delivered with pre-set
.018" or .030." The .030" are difficult to set properly. If there is
an NGK BR8ES plug that comes with solid tips and pre-gapped to .018"
then that's the plug I think I want.
I'll be happy when this confusion on my part is settled.
Thanks
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: dwight purdy
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Don
I had them looked up at the local auto store. I will look and get the
number off the box and get back with you. If your order your plugs from
CPS , they will be the solid tips.
Dwight
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Don , I just read the postd from Bob again.
<Hi Don, Guy and Dave.
The solid core plugs listed on NGK's web site are strictly automotive
plugs.
They are markey on each box "not for Aircraft use" via the standard
icon.
They come from the factory gapped at .0035. they are very hard to
re-gap to
.018 as the ground tab will extend well past the electrode when
re-gapped to
.018-.020".
>
I just order from Bob and he send what I need but surely any Rotax
dealer would have them and he also gave you a part number ( rotax
number)
>Gosh, I hope this made sense..... The automotive plugs gapped by simply
tapping down the ground tab so it is only .018 away from the electrode
will
not last near as long as the "aircraft plugs (897-055).
<
And Like I said earlier I am almost at 100 hours on mine in 582 since
July and it running fine. ( I am being stubborn here but it will make
100 easy :-) )
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Sorry, I'm still out to lunch on this subject. According to Bob
Robertson the solid core plugs are automotive only. You say CPS will
deliver solid tips. Solid tips/solid core plugs (same or different).
This also doesn't address the plug gaps that are delivered with pre-set
.018" or .030." The .030" are difficult to set properly. If there is
an NGK BR8ES plug that comes with solid tips and pre-gapped to .018"
then that's the plug I think I want.
I'll be happy when this confusion on my part is settled.
Thanks
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: dwight purdy
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Don
I had them looked up at the local auto store. I will look and get
the number off the box and get back with you. If your order your plugs
from CPS , they will be the solid tips.
Dwight
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Dave,
I'm trying to zero in on this subject. What you got from Bob was
NGK plugs that were solid tip and pre-gapped to .018". Correct??
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:25 PM
I just order from Bob and he send what I need but surely any Rotax
dealer would have them and he also gave you a part number ( rotax
number)
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Don ill address this one lol .
I have bought from ACS and they are the same plugs order from the auto parts
store same number same crappy gap and same everything . Absolutely no
difference that i could find whatsoever at all at anytime anyplace or
anything else . I buy mine in boxes of 10 usually 2 boxes at once that
gives me 20 plugs and i can run them forever seems .
Tell ya what send me a email offline to eskflyer@lvcisp.com
And ill send you 4 plugs to try out yourself and see if they are any
different.
Take care fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly kitfox
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
> Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
> #BR8ES solid cap #3961
> ************
> Hello Bob,
> OK, you're right, I'm confused. The above was posted this morning
> giving the NGK plug numbers. I checked their web site and they are listed
> as "solid" cap I guess. Are you saying the above are for auto use only
> and not aircraft. Are you also saying that NGK sells a special aircraft
> plug that is gapped at .018 and can be bought through Rotax Centers? I
> remember talking to you years ago about tapping down those .030 plugs to
> .018. This is the first time I've ever heard of an NGK plug that is for
> aircraft only. Help me out here I need to get some plugs soon.
>
> Don Smythe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:28 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>
>
>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>
>> Hi Don, Guy and Dave.
>>
>> The solid core plugs listed on NGK's web site are strictly automotive
>> plugs. They are markey on each box "not for Aircraft use" via the
>> standard icon.
>> They come from the factory gapped at .0035. they are very hard to re-gap
>> to .018 as the ground tab will extend well past the electrode when
>> re-gapped to .018-.020".
>> Plug ground tbs should be parallel to the electrode, not simply bent down
>> so that one side is gapped correctly.
>> We tried these plugs and found them to be really hard to gap properly.
>> The plugs you get from your Rotax Service Centers/Repair Stations are
>> pre-gapped to .018". The ground tab is a bit shorter on these than the
>> automotibe plugs so the eng of the ground tab
>> is adjacent to the edge of the electrode when it is set parallel and at
>> .018/.020"
>> Gosh, I hope this made sense..... The automotive plugs gapped by simply
>> tapping down the ground tab so it is only .018 away from the electrode
>> will not last near as long as the "aircraft plugs (897-055).
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>>
>> BTW....You can hit up your supplier for a better price if you order in
>> bulk. (Dave does...8^)
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Bob Robertson
>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>> Rotax Service Center
>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>>
>>
>> John,
>> Thanks, that clears this up for me. I went to the NGK web site and
>> sure enough, your numbers pulled up a plug that said "SOLID" behind the
>> plug number. Good information. Learn something new every day. Who said
>> this list didn't produce good information. Sorry Dave, I was about to
>> doubt you.
>>
>> Don Smythe
>> Do Not Archive
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: john perry
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>>
>>
>> Don the NGK stock # B8ES solid cap plugs is #3683
>> #BR8ES solid cap #3961
>> These are NGK'S stock number give it to any parts store and they will be
>> able to order them then .
>>
>> John Perry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Don Smythe
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
>>
>>
>> Ok, I read it and it seems to contradict itself because I have to
>> go back to my original question. Where can you purchase an NGK BR8ES
>> spark plug that has a solid tip. I just went quickly to the NGK site and
>> can't find a reference to a solid tip plug The author of the article
>> said basically, you "MUST" use NGK BR8ES/B8ES plugs and you must NOT use
>> screw on tips. Where did he buy them?
>> The other article you sent allowed screw on tips but said to
>> crimp/peen/glue the screw on caps.
>>
>> Don Smythe
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: dav
>> The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES. The "R"
>> denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference. The use of
>> spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip, is
>> mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the spark
>> plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
>>
>> Spark plug gap
>>
>> a.. Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"
>> b.. Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
>> c.. The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help
>> starting in very cold conditions
>> To be avoided:
>>
>> a.. Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents
>> b.. Screwed-on tips
>> c.. Unverified spark plug gaps
>> d..
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 44
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Guys,
Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming
in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion.
I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation
BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018"
versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more
important issue. I want some of them......
So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
gap)?????
Still Confused but will get straight,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
Message 45
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Don
The gap comes anywhere from .017 to .035 none have ever been at .018
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Guys,
Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat
it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are
coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my
confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the
aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered
pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter
ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want some of
them......
So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip??????
They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
gap)?????
Still Confused but will get straight,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
YES !!
I am going to shop in a few mins -- will take a pic for you .
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 plugs
Dave,
I'm trying to zero in on this subject. What you got from Bob was
NGK plugs that were solid tip and pre-gapped to .018". Correct??
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:25 PM
I just order from Bob and he send what I need but surely any Rotax
dealer would have them and he also gave you a part number ( rotax
number)
Message 47
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John,
Don't know whre you have been buying your plugs, but we just went into the
stock room and checked about 50 of them ... all came in between ..017 and
.019 (these are the ones that come from Rotax)
The ones that came from the automotive wholesaler came in close to .035 and
have longer grounding tabs..
The automotove solid core plugs ARE different than the ones that are
purchased for aircraft. I have both types on my desk as I type.
Bob Robertson
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Don
The gap comes anywhere from .017 to .035 none have ever been at .018
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Guys,
Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to death
and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming in and I'm
sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion. I've sent emails
to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also
asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my
opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want
some of them......
So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018" gap??????
CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035" gap)?????
Still Confused but will get straight,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Checking Resistor Caps |
How do I check whether I have resistor caps or not? Is it simply 5k ohms
between the plug and wire contacts? I guess I therefore have to remove
the
caps from the wires. Is there anything special I should do to put them
back
together, such as conductive grease, etc.?
Hi ! Guy,
yes you are basically correct however not all caps are
5K ohms some are 1K and you might might find others. Yes your dielectric
grease is a good idea. The caps have what looks like a brass woodscrew
in them that screws into the wire end so just twist caps anticlockwise
on the wire to remove. You will find the resistance goes high not low.
There is several brands of caps like Bosch etc as well as NGK but I'm
an NGK freak. If you Google NGK Spark Plug Caps I'm sure you''ll come up
with a site that will show you the different plug caps on offer and
their coding. Yes they are coded like a plug type. If you find this you
won't need to unscrew and measure. However it's not a bad idea to do so
as if you are using resistor caps they should be checked because they do
fail and you can find a 5K cap reading 25K for instance. Carbon plug
leads used in cars are notorious for the same thing.
This is why I prefer resistor plugs and non resistor caps. This way
basically the resistor is unlikely to give trouble because you are
changing it when you change plugs. Every 25 hour ????
Rex.
Message 49
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Don....
O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation solid
core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their plugs
sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core plugs
because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the ones we
were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because ,firstly, they were
marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the gap and grounding tab were
different. We returned all but 30 of these (a back up in case we got short
stocked on the ones we were getting from Rotax).
I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling the
automotive plug.
I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle the
plugs we get from Rotax.
As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats (not
indicidual boxes).
How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms of
performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals, I doubt
you would see any difference.
If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be a
difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour change out
schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but the plugs seem to
be going the distance).
Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Guys,
Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to death
and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming in and I'm
sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion. I've sent emails
to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also
asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my
opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want
some of them......
So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They are
for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018" gap?????? CPS
delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035" gap)?????
Still Confused but will get straight,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 50
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|
Bob then what is the NGK Stock number for the Aircraft BR8ES and B8ES I
would like to know so i can then compare some more and see if i change my
mind again lol .
Thanks
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> John,
> Don't know whre you have been buying your plugs, but we just went into the
> stock room and checked about 50 of them ... all came in between ..017 and
> .019 (these are the ones that come from Rotax)
> The ones that came from the automotive wholesaler came in close to .035
> and have longer grounding tabs..
>
> The automotove solid core plugs ARE different than the ones that are
> purchased for aircraft. I have both types on my desk as I type.
>
> Bob Robertson
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
> Don
> The gap comes anywhere from .017 to .035 none have ever been at .018
>
> John Perry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Smythe
> To: Kitfox List
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:00 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
> Guys,
> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming in
> and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion. I've
> sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation BR8ES
> plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus
> .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more
> important issue. I want some of them......
> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
> are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018" gap??????
> CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035" gap)?????
>
> Still Confused but will get straight,
> Don Smythe
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox as a Lite Sport |
added info: check your limitations,the new limitations for phase one call for a
log entry showing gross weight, make sure this is not above 1320.
those with old limitations should be ok.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79978#79978
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Checking Resistor Caps |
At 11:16 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>his is why I prefer resistor plugs and non resistor caps. This way
>basically the resistor is unlikely to give trouble because you are
>changing it when you change plugs. Every 25 hour ????
Thanks Rex. Time to go check.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 53
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At 04:43 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>Don't know whre you have been buying your plugs, but we just went into the
>stock room and checked about 50 of them ... all came in between ..017 and
>.019 (these are the ones that come from Rotax)
Hi Bob! What are you selling? Are these NGK BR8ES and BRES? Is there a
source for similarly configured Iridium plugs? (I don't know why I want to
use these, I guess I thought they'd last longer. Maybe I'm wasting money.)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: 0-235 vs Turbo Subaru |
Thanks to all that responded to my question. Since this is a very
personnel decision I was not surprised that most replies were
off-list. Most people are not willing to get involved in a potential
long debate and I certainly respect that.
The result of it all is that I have decided to go with the
Lycosaurus..... ten years ago, approaching 60 rather than 70 my
decision I think would have been the other way. All those extra
horses sure look tempting!
Thanks again.
Jim
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? |
Hey Bob and All .
I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
Let me know if I screwed it up .
BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays - who
knows.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> Don....
> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation solid
> core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their plugs
> sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core plugs
> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the ones we
> were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because ,firstly, they were
> marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the gap and grounding tab were
> different. We returned all but 30 of these (a back up in case we got
> short stocked on the ones we were getting from Rotax).
> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling the
> automotive plug.
> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle the
> plugs we get from Rotax.
> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats (not
> indicidual boxes).
> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms of
> performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals, I doubt
> you would see any difference.
> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be a
> difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour change out
> schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but the plugs seem
> to be going the distance).
> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>
> regards
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
> www.aerocontrols.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
> Guys,
> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming in
> and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion. I've
> sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation BR8ES
> plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus
> .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more
> important issue. I want some of them......
> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
> are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018" gap??????
> CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035" gap)?????
>
> Still Confused but will get straight,
> Don Smythe
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? |
Dave Look at the solid cap NGK plugs . NGK told me they do not make a
aviation plug in BR8ES or B8ES , So where are these plugs coming from . I
would guess Rotax is modifying them then ?. Go get Stock number # 3863 and
stock number #3961 and compare these.
Take care fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
> Hey Bob and All .
> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>
> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>
> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays - who
> knows.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>
>> Don....
>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation solid
>> core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their plugs
>> sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core plugs
>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the ones we
>> were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because ,firstly, they were
>> marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the gap and grounding tab
>> were different. We returned all but 30 of these (a back up in case we
>> got short stocked on the ones we were getting from Rotax).
>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling the
>> automotive plug.
>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle the
>> plugs we get from Rotax.
>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats (not
>> indicidual boxes).
>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms of
>> performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals, I
>> doubt you would see any difference.
>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be a
>> difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour change
>> out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but the plugs
>> seem to be going the distance).
>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Bob Robertson
>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>> Rotax Service Center
>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
>> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
>> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming in
>> and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion. I've
>> sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation BR8ES
>> plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus
>> .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more
>> important issue. I want some of them......
>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
>> are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>> gap)?????
>>
>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>> Don Smythe
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 57
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| Subject: | Helpful people - was Skis for Kitfox's |
I agree with your story Noel. We need to make sure
the ground people understand what we want very
clearly.
I once investigated a taxi accident where the ground
person gave a thumbs up, meaning "You are going to hit
it" rather than an "all clear". The helo hit the
other helo and there was a lot of flack over that in
more ways than one.
When building my Fox, a very anxious-to-help neighbor
came over to assist me one day. He wasn't at all
mechanically enclined and I often helped him with his
house. He wanted to learn more.
On this day I needed to remove the wings after some
work. I told him to hold the wing tip up while I
removed the strut and disconnected the wing root.
After I pulled the strut out and put it down, I turned
to find my neighbor holding the wing tip waist high
instead of level, and grinning like a kid. If I
hadn't already pulled the root pins half way out,
there would have been some expensive damage done and
he had no clue.
Sometimes we forget what it was like not to know
aviation. Make sure your directions are understood by
asking them to be described back to you. Then check
again.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
Message 58
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Hi Folks,
I'm about to fabric the wings on our KFIV, so before I do, I'd like to know what
the latest reccomendation is for sloshing the tanks, especially with regard
to the advent of ethanol. Non-ethanol fuel is standard here, but I'm sure it will
develop into an issue sooner rather than later, so I really want to make the
right choice now.
Any words of wisdom will be most welcome.
Regards
Colin Durey
Sydney
--------
Colin Durey
Sydney
+61-418-677073
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p020#80020
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Sloshing |
Hi Colin,
Answers vary and it seems all have a point of truth to
them. One thing I haven't heard on the list though is
that aluminum parts don't handle well the corrosion
caused by water held by ethenol. My alum carb pits
from it and I think aluminum fuel lines may develop
leaks too.
I know that if you use electrical tape to "protect" an
alum line, it will corrode under the tape. I suspect
we will hear of corroded lines in the future from this
new fuel too.
I used an alchohol resistant slosh for my tanks. So
far, so good.
Kurt S. S-5
--- colindu <colin@ptcsg.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm about to fabric the wings on our KFIV, so before
> I do, I'd like to know what the latest
> reccomendation is for sloshing the tanks, especially
> with regard to the advent of ethanol. Non-ethanol
> fuel is standard here, but I'm sure it will develop
> into an issue sooner rather than later, so I really
> want to make the right choice now.
>
> Any words of wisdom will be most welcome.
>
> Regards
> Colin Durey
> Sydney
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: TRY FIT GROVE L.G. FROM MODEL V TO IV |
You might want to check with Grove about that gear. I
thought they made one for each gross weight. If the
gear is too strong for your plane, you will bend
fuselage tubing before the gear bends. Grove might
swap to a KF-4 gear for a small fee if the do vary the
gear by weight. They are a great company to work with
from all I have heard.
But I could be wrong about it too. Just want you to
get it right and asking them cost so little.
Kurt S. S-5 w/ Grove
--- PEDRO PEREZ <5324@PRTC.NET> wrote:
> HELLO: LIST
>
> I HAVE A GROVE L.G. FROM A MODEL V ///
> SOMEBODY SOLD ME AND SAID THAT IT COULD FIT TO MY
> CLASSIC IV ....
Cheap talk?
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: 0-235 vs Turbo Subaru0-235 vs Turbo Subaru |
Glenn sez:
>The Lyc. No question about it. There are only two engine to fly
>behind.Lyc. 7 Cont.
The 5000 people involved in the class-action lawsuit against Lycoming
for defective crankshafts might beg to differ with you. They've
already suffered through multiple factory recalls and experienced
considerable down-time and personal expense.
Duane sez:
>[Lycomings & Continentals] have the advantage of being designed from
>the ground up as aircraft engines, and have benefited from years of
>improvement, and advances of material science.
Subaru engines were originally designed as airplane engines, too,
Notice the horizontally opposed arrangement of the cylinders? From
their web site:
"Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., (FHI), traces its corporate lineage back
to Nakajima Aircraft Company, which was founded in 1917. In 1953,
five Japanese companies joined to form FHI, which has grown to become
one of Japan's largest manufacturers of transportation equipment...
"Best known for its Subaru automobiles, FHI also manufactures
commercial and military aircraft and aircraft parts, engines and
machinery, buses and rolling stock. The company has a long history as
a technological innovator and boasts some of the most diversified and
advanced all-wheel drive (AWD) technologies in the world."
The certified engines have stagnated in both technology and
materials. The Continental TSIO-360 in my Piper Turbo Arrow employs
almost exactly the same design, materials, and manufacturing methods
that have been used since the 1940s. Has any new engine design in
the last 50 years used mechanical ignitions?
I have a great deal of confidence in the that Continental engine, but
to say it has experienced "improvement" and "advances" is laughable.
>...use the car engine, and join the ranks of those who are in a
>continuous mode of solving carburetor problems, cooling leaks,
>gearbox issues, and head gasket concerns, ignition system questions,
>oil leaks...
With the exception of gearbox issues, you just described my previous
ownership experience with a Lycoming engine. OK, so the problems
were with fuel injection and the cooling problems related to baffling
in the cowling, but the headaches are there either way. Add to the
list several failed alternator couplings and loose magnetos and it
quickly becomes obvious there is no "higher ground" in such a debate.
Mike G.
N728KF
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