Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:24 AM - Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
2. 12:41 AM - Re: Rotax 582 plugs (Michael Gibbs)
3. 04:39 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Fox5flyer)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Plugs solid tip loose (Larry Martin)
5. 06:05 AM - Re: Re: Plugs solid tip loose (tc9008@aol.com)
6. 06:51 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Noel Loveys)
7. 07:35 AM - Re: Tank Sloshing (Lowell Fitt)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: Spark Plugs More pics for you (dave)
9. 07:38 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Bob Robertson)
10. 07:47 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Bob Robertson)
11. 08:00 AM - Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? (Bob Robertson)
12. 08:18 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Paul Seehafer)
13. 08:45 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Guy Buchanan)
14. 08:45 AM - Re: Tank Sloshing (Guy Buchanan)
15. 09:19 AM - Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Lynn Matteson)
16. 10:03 AM - Cabin Heater Questions (Nick Scholtes)
17. 10:46 AM - Rudder Cable Tubing. (Napier, Mark)
18. 11:20 AM - Re: Cabin Heater Questions (kitfoxmike)
19. 11:57 AM - FS: David Clark H10-13S "LNIB" (darinh)
20. 12:00 PM - Re: FS: David Clark H10-13S "LNIB" (darinh)
21. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Cabin Heater Questions (kirk hull)
22. 12:16 PM - Re: Cabin Heater Questions (Noel Loveys)
23. 12:33 PM - Re: Cabin Heater Questions (kitfoxmike)
24. 12:48 PM - Re: Rudder Cable Tubing. (Lynn Matteson)
25. 01:49 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (kurt schrader)
26. 02:56 PM - Re: Cabin Heater Questions (Lowell Fitt)
27. 03:48 PM - Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? (Bob Robertson)
28. 04:59 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Lynn Matteson)
29. 05:16 PM - Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? (john perry)
30. 05:25 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (john perry)
31. 07:14 PM - Re: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number (dave)
32. 08:44 PM - Re: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number (john perry)
33. 10:10 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (kurt schrader)
34. 10:16 PM - Re: Cabin Heater Questions (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists
this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding
the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor
of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser only underscores the great
sentiments people have made regarding the Lists.
If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please
feel free to do so. The nice List gifts will be available on the site for
just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your
great gift. Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises ( http://www.kitlog.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Paul, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated!
And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2006 List of Contributors current
as of 12/7/06! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people
that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough
for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser!
THANK YOU!
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2006.html
I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have
everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped
via US Postal Service. Kitlog Pro serial numbers should go out via email this
weekend.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 plugs |
Don sez:
>When I mentioned airplane, the store salesman "actually" refused to
>sell me the webbing.
Don, I'm surprised at you! Don't you remember? You really needed
the webbing for your lawn mower! :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 3
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Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and I know we're all
learning a lot about spark plugs and that's a good thing, but these
plugs aren't really all that much of a problem. Just buy the correct
heat range available at the local auto parts house and like Don says,
stake the cap on. Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
there. As for the ground terminal being too long, it's very simple to
just gently tap it to the correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim
it back to the correct length, being sure to avoid nicking the
electrode. Be sure that the end is flat and square with sharp right
angles. It only takes a few minutes per plug.
Additionally, I remember that it was said that in the winter time people
close the gap to the minimum to help with easier starts. I'm speaking
of the 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different, but I doubt
it.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Guys,
Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat
it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are
coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my
confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the
aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered
pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter
ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want some of
them......
So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip??????
They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
gap)?????
Still Confused but will get straight,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Plugs solid tip loose |
Hi All,
This is a solid tip plug that has been in use for over 50hrs. Note
that the whole tip assembly was becoming unscrewed from the ceramic. I
now check them every time I check/clean the plugs. In 150 hrs, this one
was the worse, and I found one other loose, but still very intact. I
did not notice any performance difference. Both of the plugs were on
the same cylinder position (different times). I think that I might have
contributed by "safety" wrapping the wire caps too tight.
larry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Plugs solid tip loose |
So much for solid tip plugs. I have been using plugs from the motorcycle shop and
gaping them myself. So far no problems on 170 hrs
Travis
582
-----Original Message-----
From: CrownLJ@verizon.net
Sent: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Plugs solid tip loose
Hi All,
This is a solid tip plug that has been in use for over 50hrs. Note that the
whole tip assembly was becoming unscrewed from the ceramic. I now check them
every time I check/clean the plugs. In 150 hrs, this one was the worse, and I
found one other loose, but still very intact. I did not notice any performance
difference. Both of the plugs were on the same cylinder position (different
times). I think that I might have contributed by "safety" wrapping the wire
caps too tight.
larry
[Image Removed]
[Image Removed]
________________________________________________________________________
Message 6
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I've never had a problem starting a cold two stroke engine. Even when I
lived in Labrador the two stroke engines usually started with one or two
pulls on the cord. Keeping them going now that is a challenge!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and I know we're all
learning a lot about spark plugs and that's a good thing, but these
plugs
aren't really all that much of a problem. Just buy the correct heat
range
available at the local auto parts house and like Don says, stake the cap
on.
Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on there. As for the
ground terminal being too long, it's very simple to just gently tap it
to
the correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim it back to the
correct
length, being sure to avoid nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end
is
flat and square with sharp right angles. It only takes a few minutes
per
plug.
Additionally, I remember that it was said that in the winter time people
close the gap to the minimum to help with easier starts. I'm speaking
of
the 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different, but I doubt it.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe <mailto:dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Guys,
Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
death
and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming in and
I'm
sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion. I've sent
emails
to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also
asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In
my
opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I
want
some of them......
So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
are
for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018" gap??????
CPS
delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035" gap)?????
Still Confused but will get straight,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Sloshing |
List
I have been running some tests on the alcohol issue. The result is
preliminary, as it has only been going on since October 1.
FYI, the purpose of the testing is to find a coating for a balsa wood float
used in a low fuel sensor.
The test consists of a series of test tubes with floats coated with various
coatings and separated from the glass walls of the test tubes with a guide
wire. The guide wire prevents surface tension - floats against the glass
from masking the floats
ability to sink in the event it loses buoyancy.
This is the set-up:
Two floats coated with vinyl ester resin.
Two floats coated with vinyl ester resin that had been mixed in a plastic
cup attacked by the resin to see if the cup somehow degraded the resin.
Two floats coated with Kreem
One float coated with a fuel tank sealer from JC Whitney
One of each float is submerged in our version of California pump fuel which
I have measured as containing 6-7% ethanol. One of each float is submerged
in 97% ethanol (denatured alcohol). The Lone JC Whitney coated float is in
mogas.
For the first two weeks, on a daily basis, I took the floats up to a virtual
14,000 ft in a
bell jar to simulate flying to altitude to see if the coatings were breaking
down and allowing the floats to de-gas. since then the altitude test has
been conducted about weekly.
The result of the tests so far is as follows.
Early on, one of the Kreem coated floats degassed under vacuum suggesting a
breach of the coating. The air bubble was large - 1/16" and was on the end
of the float. Past experience suggests that if the coating fails large
bubbles from
the float interior will appear on the surface.
After 30 days, I removed the vinyl ester coated floats from the 97% ethanol
and mogas for observation. The submersion had dulled the surface from it's
original shiny appearance on both floats. The surface looked etched. When
returned to the test tube, They resumed their normal floating
condition. When I took the floats to the 14,000 ft. altitude, both floats
began to degass with what seemed to be thousands of microscopic, very
difficult to see bubbles. I saw no difference in the two mixes of resin.
To date, all Kreem coated floats have retained their luster in both the
mogas and the alcohol.
Since the early bubble seen on one Kreem Float, no evidence of coating
breach has been seen on any of the floats when taken to the 14,000 ft.
pressure in the vacuum chamber.
Discussion:
When brushing on the coating, it is more difficult to get full coverage with
Kreem if there is any oughness or pitting as was sometimes found on the end
grain balsa. This may be due to the very rapid evaporation of the MEK
thinner.
Fuel tank coating, I suspect would be more effective as it is a closed
system and the
MEK would be in a saturated environment and evaporation would be minimal
until the tank is vented. The surface of the Kreem retained it's luster and
is intact
and with the exception of one faulty coating, Kreem seems to have worked
well
to date.
The "Gas Tank Sealant" from JC Whitney has reacted identically to the Kreem.
The only difference between the two so far is that Kreem is a little
yellower in color
out of the can while the JC Whitney product is snow white,
With the loss of surface luster, I concluded that the vinyl ester resin had
been attacked by the alcohol (fuel) in both solutions and portions had been
dissolved. I am not a chemist, but I think when the resin cures it does
not result in a homogeneous solid, but is more like a sponge with areas of
hard resin with interspersed pockets of a more vulnerable material. I think
the softer material dissolved out into the alcohol / fuel. Then when dried,
air diffused into the porous surface and degassed as the pressure in the
bell jar was reduced. Vinyl ester resins are mixed similarly to polyester
resins with the use of MEKP and proportioned to determine curing times.
Small areas of roughness from the brush application were present indicating
that the resin was not being dissolved en masse.
>From this and past list discussions, my present conclusion is if you can get
the Kreem to stick and fill all the pinholes it is a good surface
preparation for alcohol resistence.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "colindu" <colin@ptcsg.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tank Sloshing
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm about to fabric the wings on our KFIV, so before I do, I'd like to
> know what the latest reccomendation is for sloshing the tanks, especially
> with regard to the advent of ethanol. Non-ethanol fuel is standard here,
> but I'm sure it will develop into an issue sooner rather than later, so I
> really want to make the right choice now.
>
> Any words of wisdom will be most welcome.
>
> Regards
> Colin Durey
> Sydney
>
> --------
> Colin Durey
> Sydney
> +61-418-677073
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p020#80020
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs More pics for you |
Deke,
I think you missed the point on the screw on caps. To secure them on
whatd you say is fine to secure them but since they are made of Aluminum
the Steel wire inside the NGK CAP that secures the cap to the spark
plug has a metal interaction with the Alum Tip and causes it to wear .
If you look here http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/tipsblack.htm you will see
the flat spot on the tips.
Now this is why I saw why not just get a plug that has very close to
proper gap, tip in the first place ?
I have logged over 1000 hours in 2 stroke 2 cylinders and have learnt
about this from my own experience and from other planes that have come
in here. Bottom line is use what works and I do and am sharing this to
help others have less .difficulties.
I
Dave
PS -- We got about 40 inches over night -- Will the Fox be able to
handle that ? :-))))))))
I have straight skis, I doubt Wheel skis would be much fun today
unless they are retractable wheel skis . :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Fox5flyer
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and I know we're all
learning a lot about spark plugs and that's a good thing, but these
plugs aren't really all that much of a problem. Just buy the correct
heat range available at the local auto parts house and like Don says,
stake the cap on. Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
there. As for the ground terminal being too long, it's very simple to
just gently tap it to the correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim
it back to the correct length, being sure to avoid nicking the
electrode. Be sure that the end is flat and square with sharp right
angles. It only takes a few minutes per plug.
Additionally, I remember that it was said that in the winter time
people close the gap to the minimum to help with easier starts. I'm
speaking of the 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different, but
I doubt it.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
Guys,
Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat
it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are
coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my
confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the
aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered
pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter
ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want some of
them......
So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip??????
They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
gap)?????
Still Confused but will get straight,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
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href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
Message 9
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John,
There is no NJK stock number for the plug that Rotax sells. These are
configured for Rotax in Austria by NGK....I am not sure, but I think they
also congigure the plugs for a couple of other 2-stroke manufacturers as
well.
The Rotax part number is 897-055..... .
If I can fugure out my new digital camera software (off topic, but....why
cant manufacturers come up with software programs that those of us over 55
can understand).. I will post pictures of both types of plugs on the list.
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
> Bob then what is the NGK Stock number for the Aircraft BR8ES and B8ES I
> would like to know so i can then compare some more and see if i change my
> mind again lol .
> Thanks
> John Perry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>
>> John,
>> Don't know whre you have been buying your plugs, but we just went into
>> the stock room and checked about 50 of them ... all came in between ..017
>> and .019 (these are the ones that come from Rotax)
>> The ones that came from the automotive wholesaler came in close to .035
>> and have longer grounding tabs..
>>
>> The automotove solid core plugs ARE different than the ones that are
>> purchased for aircraft. I have both types on my desk as I type.
>>
>> Bob Robertson
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>> Don
>> The gap comes anywhere from .017 to .035 none have ever been at .018
>>
>> John Perry
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Don Smythe
>> To: Kitfox List
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:00 PM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
>> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
>> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming in
>> and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion. I've
>> sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation BR8ES
>> plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus
>> .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more
>> important issue. I want some of them......
>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
>> are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>> gap)?????
>>
>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>> Don Smythe
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 10
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Good Morning Guy,
We only handle the plugs that come to us from Rotax.. These are NGK B8ES
and BR8ES.
Rotax does not list an irridium plug. I am not sure if you can get a solid
core irriduim.
My feeling on standard vs. irriduim plugs is that you can replace your BR8ES
plugs every 50 hours and still come out
ahead (fiscally).
Just my two cents
Bob Robertson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
> At 04:43 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>>Don't know whre you have been buying your plugs, but we just went into the
>>stock room and checked about 50 of them ... all came in between ..017 and
>>.019 (these are the ones that come from Rotax)
>
> Hi Bob! What are you selling? Are these NGK BR8ES and BRES? Is there a
> source for similarly configured Iridium plugs? (I don't know why I want to
> use these, I guess I thought they'd last longer. Maybe I'm wasting money.)
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? |
Dave,
Thaks for the pics.
First... The screw on tip that come with some of the automotive plugs can
wear, as shown in your photos. The problem with this is you now have a spot
for the electricity to arc. (when you remove these types of plugs you can
see a black sooty powder inside the spark plug cap. This is a result of the
arcing. The arcing is responsible for a lot of the "blown" spark plug caps
we see. There is a resistor inside the cap that gets destroyed).
You saved mer a bunch of trouble by posting the differences in the two types
of plugs. Thanks.... It's plainly visible that with the "aircraft" plug you
can easily get it properly gapped at .018 +-
and still have the ground tab parallel to the elctrode. The longer tab on
the auto plugs you do not end up with a parallel gap between the electode
and the tab.
Simply put..both types will work 'cause we know that from experience. The
"aviation" plugs will last longer due to the proper gapping. If you plan
on changing out the plugs frequently I don't think you'd see a
defference.... But seeing as you change out every 75 to 100 hours I'm sure
the "aviation" plugs will outlast the auto plug.
Now.... lets get on to another topic......
regards
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
> Hey Bob and All .
> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>
> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>
> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays - who
> knows.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>
>> Don....
>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation solid
>> core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their plugs
>> sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core plugs
>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the ones we
>> were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because ,firstly, they were
>> marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the gap and grounding tab
>> were different. We returned all but 30 of these (a back up in case we
>> got short stocked on the ones we were getting from Rotax).
>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling the
>> automotive plug.
>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle the
>> plugs we get from Rotax.
>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats (not
>> indicidual boxes).
>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms of
>> performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals, I
>> doubt you would see any difference.
>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be a
>> difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour change
>> out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but the plugs
>> seem to be going the distance).
>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Bob Robertson
>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>> Rotax Service Center
>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
>> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
>> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming in
>> and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion. I've
>> sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation BR8ES
>> plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus
>> .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more
>> important issue. I want some of them......
>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
>> are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>> gap)?????
>>
>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>> Don Smythe
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
Lynn,
I've put almost 300 flying hours on a couple different sets of Avid's wheel
penetration skis and have to say ski flying is a blast, so don't shortchange
yourself by not doing it. And the wheel penetration ski works great. I
would never want to go back to a straight ski.
I sent you a short video showing the wheel penetration skis in operation on
my early Avid Flyer in a separate e-mail. Or for anyone else wanting to see
it just click onto the kitfox lazair videos at
http://www.lazair.com/kitfox/movies/ and choose the video titled
avicAskis.mpg. (or if you want to go direct, just click on
http://www.lazair.com/kitfox/movies/avicAskis.mpg, but then you'll miss all
the other great videos on that site).
Ski flying with wheel skis can only be compared to having a seaplane with
amphibious capability - the options of taking off at the airport and then
landing in snow (or water in the case of the seaplane) provides one with
significantly enhanced experiences. Knowing you can now go pretty much
anywhere you want is a real rush. It opens up so many opportunites to visit
places that were previously off limits to you. And from a safety
perspective, it significantly increases your places to land in the case of
an emergency. The fact that you won't have the hassle of dollying your
aircraft from the hangar to a snow runway, or that you won't have to worry
about either too much or too little snow (knowing you can always operate off
the asphalt) makes the wheel ski a pretty good thing to have for winter
flying enjoyment. You will also find snow operations easier than pavement,
as the aircraft tracks straighter with the skis, and runway lengths or
direction are generally less limited. When you do a good snow landing it is
much like flying floats, you won't even know you are on the surface until
you either hit a small bump or see a spray coming off the undercarriage.
I'm not sure that flying can get any better than that...
The downside? Well, there are definitely some issues with ski flying. I
personally believe ski flying has a tremendous possibility of messing up
your airplane. Remember, most aircraft get wrecked off airport. And in the
case of skis, because you can go pretty much anywhere, you tend to do so.
And to make matters worse, the place you are going to land on is most likely
covered with a nice smooth layer of snow. It will probably look gorgeous
from the air. Smooth and bump free. But hidden underneath all that smooth
snow can be boulders, ridges, fence wire, ice chunks, etc, etc. Adding
insult to injury is the fact that you can't see very well as you are truly
experiencing the effect of being snow blinded. Flying low over a snow
covered area before you land looking for obstructions is always advised, but
many times won't really show you anything except a lot of white. Snow
drifts, ridges, and shallow drop offs are hazards that are some of the
hardest to see, many times being impossible to distinguish from the flat
areas. The 7,000 acre lake I live on here in Wisconsin makes for a great
winter runway (that's where the video was shot). But because we have a lot
of snowmobilers making ruts, and ice fisherman drilling holes (with nice
hard elevated rings of ice around the opening) all over the place, you have
to be careful. I'll admit to hitting many an ice fishing holes, and landing
cross ways on hardened and rough snowmobile trails, in my hours of ski
flying. That isn't exactly the fun part I described earlier. It will make
you wonder how much of that abuse your skis and/or your plane will handle
before breaking something. But if you are careful, and get those days when
you are the only one out in the fresh powder, it will make all other winter
snow related activities boring by comparison.
Here's a cute little wheel ski story I have to tell; One year I was lazier
than usual and left my wheel penetration skis on my Avid until mid July. I
thought it was kind of funny to do it, and what the heck, the airplane
operated just the same. But I decided that I had one last thing to do
before removing them..... So I loaded up my sheepskin lined leather winter
parka, along with my heaviest mittens and fur hat. Then I flew the little
Avid to a small airport I had never been to before. Once there I pulled up
at the fuel pump to top off my fuel (all of about 4 gallons as I recall).
When the line boy came out he was totally confused by seeing skis on my
plane. He asked where I had come from? I told him the mountains north of
the Yukon territories. Trying to keep from laughing, I told him I was glad
all the snow and ice had finally melted off the plane, and then went on and
on about how nice the weather was here in Wisconsin. Intrigued, he started
asking a lot of questions about range, speed, carrying capacity, etc of my
little white Avid Flyer. Then he wanted to know how it is that I could sit
that long in that small cabin? Somehow or other I muttered out answers
without laughing. Finally we went into the FBO so I could pay for the fuel,
and the next thing I know he has all of his coworkers coming out to see
"this neat little plane that flew here from somewhere near the north pole!".
Trying to avoid a lot of embarassment, or possibly being strung up by the
line boy, I told them all the truth, and then apologized for stringing them
along. They were a great bunch as they all got a good laugh from it.
Flying home that day I knew it would be a day I'd remember for a long time.
So there's proof wheel penetration skis aren't just for winter anymore<GRIN>
If you live where there's snow, go out and enjoy some ski flying. You'll
never regret it. If you don't get any snow, well you might want to consider
moving where there is...
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
ps - attached is a picture of my early Avid on wheel skis with the large
skinny tires. My later Avid uses the standard Avid/Kitfox type tundra tire.
Both tires worked well, with the advantage going to the narrow and tall tire
due to providing more ski area when in deep snow.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis for Kitfox's
>
> I'd like to get peoples opinions on skis for a Model IV. I know Skystar
> offered them, but not (I don't think) in the wheel-penetration type that I
> am interested in. We don't get enough snow around here (Lower Michigan) to
> warrant full skis...that is, non-penetration skis. But if we get our
> normal amount, my strip will be snowed over, while most of the paved
> strips will be cleared of snow, and I wouldn't be able to go
> there....well, you get the idea. I'd like to hear some dialogue about what
> is involved in flying with skis, problems encountered, etc. I am thinking
> of building my own skis of the wheel-penetration type, or perhaps buying
> if a pair is available. I need a project, so building is preferred.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
>
>
Message 13
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At 07:46 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>My feeling on standard vs. irriduim plugs is that you can replace your BR8ES
>plugs every 50 hours and still come out
>ahead (fiscally).
Thanks Bob.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Sloshing |
At 07:34 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote:
>I have been running some tests on the alcohol issue. The result is
>preliminary, as it has only been going on since October 1.
Good work Lowell! Thanks for doing this. No help to me now, but it will be
in the archives when I want it. Thanks again.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
Ok, that was enough to convince me...I'm building a set of skis...wheel
skis...for my fox. I just watched Paul's avicAskis.mpg video, and I'm a
believer. I probably won't get airborne as quick as Paul, given my
Jabiru engine and cruise prop, but I'll get up there eventually. : )
Lynn
On Friday, December 8, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Paul Seehafer wrote:
> Lynn,
>
> I've put almost 300 flying hours on a couple different sets of Avid's
> wheel penetration skis and have to say ski flying is a blast, so don't
> shortchange yourself by not doing it. And the wheel penetration ski
> works great. I would never want to go back to a straight ski.
>
> I sent you a short video showing the wheel penetration skis in
> operation on my early Avid Flyer in a separate e-mail. Or for anyone
> else wanting to see it just click onto the kitfox lazair videos at
> http://www.lazair.com/kitfox/movies/ and choose the video titled
> avicAskis.mpg. (or if you want to go direct, just click on
> http://www.lazair.com/kitfox/movies/avicAskis.mpg, but then you'll
> miss all the other great videos on that site).
Message 16
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| Subject: | Cabin Heater Questions |
KitFoxers,
I have a couple of questions about cabin heaters for a KitFox. I'm in
the process of purchasing a KitFox, which is located in Florida, and
flying it home here to the arctic (Chicago -- brrrrrrrrr!!!). The
KitFox in question is a Model IV Speedster with a 912UL, and it has no
heater.
But it was originally equipped with a carb heater. The owner decided
that carb heat wasn't required anymore, and removed the air hoses and
simply put air cleaners on the carb. But, the heat "muff" and the carb
heat box are still there.
One question is, if I duct the heat out of the carb heat box to holes
that I drill in the firewall, will that be enough heat to be
"comfortable" in a Chicago winter?
My other question revolves around installing a water heater. It seems
to me that there are two ways to plumb in the water heater. One is to
plumb it "in series" with the radiator, the other is to plumb it "in
parallel". If it is plumbed "in series" and before the radiator, water
that is at it's hottest gets to the heater core. But, there is no way
to put a valve in-line to "throttle" the water flow. If the heater core
is placed "in parallel" with the radiator, then it can be throttled, but
it seems as though not much hot water would get to it, with the water
choosing to flow through the less-restrictive radiator instead.
Anyway, any advice on how to plumb in a heater core?
Thanks!
Nick Scholtes
Message 17
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| Subject: | Rudder Cable Tubing. |
Hello,
Does anyone know what that tubing is that runs around the sides of the
seats? It is long and acts as a bushing/sleeve for the rudder cables on
my Model III.
I would like to buy some more but don't know what the material is or the
exact size.
Thanks in advance,
Mark Napier
- - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - -
This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential,
proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely
intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to
the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are
not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any
part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater Questions |
I put a heater system on my 912ul kitfox4. The way I did it was to take a funnel
and put it behind the radiator and then put a hose on the back of that and
run it into the cabin. Works good down to 30 degrees. When it gets that cold
you also need to restrict the radiator, currently I'm using duct tape, but I
want to change to something better, still thinking on that one.
With this in mind, I want to pull off the radiator where the hottest spot is, currently
I'm pulling off the center, I want to move the funnel to the side that
has the hottest water, meaning the inlet of the radiator. Does anybody know
the direction of flow of the radiator. Does it come in on the copilot side or
the pilot side???
What's great about using this is there is no drain on the electrical system and
no weight gain.
My next project is to remove all the cowlings and put a plastic wrap around everying
for the cockpit to keep out air leaks, will find out possibly tonight on
that one.
--------
kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p195#80195
Message 19
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| Subject: | FS: David Clark H10-13S "LNIB" |
Guys,
I am selling my DC headset that I used to get my private license with. I was going
to keep it for use when I finish the Series 7 but it is going to be a year
or two before I get it finished and I am thinking of going to two ANR headsets
for the 7 anyway. The headset was purchased new almost 2 years ago and has
approximately 60 hours flight time on it. Would like to get $225 shipped anywhere
in the US (lower 48) but am open to reasonable offers.
Thanks guys,
Darin
Series 7 (Building up funds for the 914)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p204#80204
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1617_medium_110.jpg
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: FS: David Clark H10-13S "LNIB" |
Don't know why the little smiley with the shades is appearing above??? It should
say "lower 48".
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p205#80205
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater Questions |
I installed a heater core with an electric fan works great to well below
zero if the cabin is sealed up well.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cabin Heater Questions
I put a heater system on my 912ul kitfox4. The way I did it was to take a
funnel and put it behind the radiator and then put a hose on the back of
that and run it into the cabin. Works good down to 30 degrees. When it
gets that cold you also need to restrict the radiator, currently I'm using
duct tape, but I want to change to something better, still thinking on that
one.
With this in mind, I want to pull off the radiator where the hottest spot
is, currently I'm pulling off the center, I want to move the funnel to the
side that has the hottest water, meaning the inlet of the radiator. Does
anybody know the direction of flow of the radiator. Does it come in on the
copilot side or the pilot side???
What's great about using this is there is no drain on the electrical system
and no weight gain.
My next project is to remove all the cowlings and put a plastic wrap around
everying for the cockpit to keep out air leaks, will find out possibly
tonight on that one.
--------
kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p195#80195
Message 22
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| Subject: | Cabin Heater Questions |
For the radiator heater Plumb it in parallel with the radiator then all you
have to do is to put a throttling valve in series with the radiator to force
hot water through the heater core. You may also want to put a throttling
valve in series with the heater core to eliminate heat during those hot
Illinois summer days. Just make sure only one throttle is closed at a time
and you never completely close the valve on the radiator.
I was in Rockford over 40 yr. ago For the first annual EAA fly in.... I
remember getting off the plane at O'Hare and having the heat hit me like a
brick wall!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Nick Scholtes
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:29 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Cabin Heater Questions
>
>
>
> KitFoxers,
>
> I have a couple of questions about cabin heaters for a
> KitFox. I'm in
> the process of purchasing a KitFox, which is located in Florida, and
> flying it home here to the arctic (Chicago -- brrrrrrrrr!!!). The
> KitFox in question is a Model IV Speedster with a 912UL, and
> it has no
> heater.
>
> But it was originally equipped with a carb heater. The owner decided
> that carb heat wasn't required anymore, and removed the air hoses and
> simply put air cleaners on the carb. But, the heat "muff"
> and the carb
> heat box are still there.
>
> One question is, if I duct the heat out of the carb heat box to holes
> that I drill in the firewall, will that be enough heat to be
> "comfortable" in a Chicago winter?
>
> My other question revolves around installing a water heater.
> It seems
> to me that there are two ways to plumb in the water heater.
> One is to
> plumb it "in series" with the radiator, the other is to plumb it "in
> parallel". If it is plumbed "in series" and before the
> radiator, water
> that is at it's hottest gets to the heater core. But, there
> is no way
> to put a valve in-line to "throttle" the water flow. If the
> heater core
> is placed "in parallel" with the radiator, then it can be
> throttled, but
> it seems as though not much hot water would get to it, with the water
> choosing to flow through the less-restrictive radiator instead.
>
> Anyway, any advice on how to plumb in a heater core?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Nick Scholtes
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater Questions |
mine would work great if everything is sealed up. The thing is, I thought of the
hot water heater inside, but I didn't like the idea of all the junk that is
involved. Plus, my electrical is tapped out. I fly with a stereo, transponder,
and my favorite: wellon strobes, the best they have. those suckers are so
bright they can be seen from far away. Usually I can be seen before I ever see
the other plane.
When I put my hand on the hose (from the hose coming off the radiator) it is always
a good temp, just get so much leaks from the cowl and such, hopefully my
wrap will work out.
Another plus from this is you can install it in about 15 minutes with, oil funnel,
wire ties, and about 2 feet of 1 1/2 hose. instant low cost heat.
--------
kitfoxmike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p213#80213
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Tubing. |
The piece that I have is marked: S&L PLASTICS NYLAFLOW (R) PRESSURE
TUBING TYPE 5/16"H SK82 .01 QC# K1ONO
That's probably WAY more than you need to know...5/16" Nylon tubing
(rigid) is probably what you want....John McBean probably sells it.
This was a chunk left over from my IV, but is undoubtedly the same
stuff.
Lynn
On Friday, December 8, 2006, at 01:45 PM, Napier, Mark wrote:
> <Mark.Napier@sciatl.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> Does anyone know what that tubing is that runs around the sides of the
> seats? It is long and acts as a bushing/sleeve for the rudder cables
> on
> my Model III.
>
> I would like to buy some more but don't know what the material is or
> the
> exact size.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mark Napier
>
>
> - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - -
> -
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is
> confidential,
> proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information
> is solely
> intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
> delivering it to
> the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message,
> you are
> not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this
> message or any
> part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify
> the sender
> immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer.
>
>
Message 25
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Remember, if you trim plugs this way to make sure that
there are no metal filings left in the plug recesses
to be introduced into the engine. Same when using
spark plug cleaning machines. Those abbrasives can
really tear up a cylinder.
Kurt S S-5
--- Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@i-star.com> wrote:
> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and
> I know we're all learning a lot about spark plugs
> and that's a good thing, but these plugs aren't
> really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
> correct heat range available at the local auto parts
> house and like Don says, stake the cap on.
> Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
> there. As for the ground terminal being too long,
> it's very simple to just gently tap it to the
> correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim it
> back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
> nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat
> and square with sharp right angles. It only takes a
> few minutes per plug.
> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in
> the winter time people close the gap to the minimum
> to help with easier starts. I'm speaking of the
> 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
> but I doubt it.
> Deke
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater Questions |
Nick,
One thought regarding using the heat muff. The traditional heater sold by
Skystar recirculated the air through the heater core. Mine is similar to
what you are describing and it uses ram outside air across the core for
heat. If it is 30 outside it may warm the air to 90. If it is 20 it may
warm it to 80, etc. It will take the chill off my feet, but I still wear
warm clothing. Another guy with the SS heater flys in his shirtsleeves.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Scholtes" <Nick@Scholtes1.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:58 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Cabin Heater Questions
>
> KitFoxers,
>
> I have a couple of questions about cabin heaters for a KitFox. I'm in the
> process of purchasing a KitFox, which is located in Florida, and flying it
> home here to the arctic (Chicago -- brrrrrrrrr!!!). The KitFox in
> question is a Model IV Speedster with a 912UL, and it has no heater.
>
> But it was originally equipped with a carb heater. The owner decided that
> carb heat wasn't required anymore, and removed the air hoses and simply
> put air cleaners on the carb. But, the heat "muff" and the carb heat box
> are still there.
>
> One question is, if I duct the heat out of the carb heat box to holes that
> I drill in the firewall, will that be enough heat to be "comfortable" in a
> Chicago winter?
>
> My other question revolves around installing a water heater. It seems to
> me that there are two ways to plumb in the water heater. One is to plumb
> it "in series" with the radiator, the other is to plumb it "in parallel".
> If it is plumbed "in series" and before the radiator, water that is at
> it's hottest gets to the heater core. But, there is no way to put a valve
> in-line to "throttle" the water flow. If the heater core is placed "in
> parallel" with the radiator, then it can be throttled, but it seems as
> though not much hot water would get to it, with the water choosing to flow
> through the less-restrictive radiator instead.
> Anyway, any advice on how to plumb in a heater core?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Nick Scholtes
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? |
John,
As stated in another post... These plugs do come from NGK as they
stand....They are configured for Rotax at the NGK factory... Your contact at
NGK is correct... There is no NGK number
for this configuration. and nope..... Rotax is not modifying them.
regards
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
> Dave Look at the solid cap NGK plugs . NGK told me they do not make a
> aviation plug in BR8ES or B8ES , So where are these plugs coming from . I
> would guess Rotax is modifying them then ?. Go get Stock number # 3863 and
> stock number #3961 and compare these.
> Take care fly safe fly low fly slow
>
> John Perry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
>
>>
>> Hey Bob and All .
>> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
>> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
>> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>>
>> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>>
>> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays - who
>> knows.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>
>>> Don....
>>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation solid
>>> core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their plugs
>>> sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core plugs
>>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the ones
>>> we were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because ,firstly, they
>>> were marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the gap and grounding
>>> tab were different. We returned all but 30 of these (a back up in case
>>> we got short stocked on the ones we were getting from Rotax).
>>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling the
>>> automotive plug.
>>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle the
>>> plugs we get from Rotax.
>>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats (not
>>> indicidual boxes).
>>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms of
>>> performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals, I
>>> doubt you would see any difference.
>>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be a
>>> difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour change
>>> out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but the plugs
>>> seem to be going the distance).
>>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Bob Robertson
>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>> Rotax Service Center
>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
>>> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
>>> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming
>>> in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion.
>>> I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation
>>> BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018"
>>> versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more
>>> important issue. I want some of them......
>>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
>>> are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>>> gap)?????
>>>
>>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>>> Don Smythe
>>> Do Not Archive
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 28
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Kurt-
I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug cleaning
machines...I've heard for the last 10 years or so, not to use a
sandblasting machine for cleaning spark plugs. Are there other cleaning
machines that do not use sand? The theory goes that the sand blasts the
ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is bad for the plug.
Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify this info.
Lynn
On Friday, December 8, 2006, at 04:48 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Remember, if you trim plugs this way to make sure that
> there are no metal filings left in the plug recesses
> to be introduced into the engine. Same when using
> spark plug cleaning machines. Those abbrasives can
> really tear up a cylinder.
>
> Kurt S S-5
>
> --- Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@i-star.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and
>> I know we're all learning a lot about spark plugs
>> and that's a good thing, but these plugs aren't
>> really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
>> correct heat range available at the local auto parts
>> house and like Don says, stake the cap on.
>> Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
>> there. As for the ground terminal being too long,
>> it's very simple to just gently tap it to the
>> correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim it
>> back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
>> nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat
>> and square with sharp right angles. It only takes a
>> few minutes per plug.
>> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in
>> the winter time people close the gap to the minimum
>> to help with easier starts. I'm speaking of the
>> 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
>> but I doubt it.
>> Deke
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? |
OK now im really confused . NGK says NO WE DO NOT MAKE PLUGS JUST FOR ROTAX
. So where is the part number if Rotax is having them made by NGK ? there
has to be a number for them to order them by . I aint gonna believe NGK
makes them for Rotax until I see a Number or stock number or something from
NGK that proves otherwise. NGK says Rotax must be modifying them themselves
. This is straight from NGK . Somewhere somehow someday we are going to find
out the facts LOL. Just hope its sooner than later .
Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 C BOX 2:62-1,clutch included
Hot pink IVO Inflight 68" 3 blade
TD / Straight Floats
580-695-8778
eskflyer@lvcisp.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> John,
> As stated in another post... These plugs do come from NGK as they
> stand....They are configured for Rotax at the NGK factory... Your contact
> at NGK is correct... There is no NGK number
> for this configuration. and nope..... Rotax is not modifying them.
>
> regards
>
> Bob Robertson
> Light Engine Services Ltd.
> Rotax Service Center
> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
> www.aerocontrols.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
>
>>
>> Dave Look at the solid cap NGK plugs . NGK told me they do not make a
>> aviation plug in BR8ES or B8ES , So where are these plugs coming from . I
>> would guess Rotax is modifying them then ?. Go get Stock number # 3863
>> and stock number #3961 and compare these.
>> Take care fly safe fly low fly slow
>>
>> John Perry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hey Bob and All .
>>> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
>>> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
>>> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>>>
>>> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>>>
>>> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays -
>>> who knows.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>
>>>
>>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>
>>>> Don....
>>>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation
>>>> solid core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>>>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their plugs
>>>> sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core plugs
>>>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the ones
>>>> we were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because ,firstly, they
>>>> were marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the gap and grounding
>>>> tab were different. We returned all but 30 of these (a back up in case
>>>> we got short stocked on the ones we were getting from Rotax).
>>>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling
>>>> the automotive plug.
>>>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle the
>>>> plugs we get from Rotax.
>>>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats (not
>>>> indicidual boxes).
>>>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms of
>>>> performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals, I
>>>> doubt you would see any difference.
>>>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be a
>>>> difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour change
>>>> out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but the plugs
>>>> seem to be going the distance).
>>>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>> Bob Robertson
>>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>>> Rotax Service Center
>>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Guys,
>>>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
>>>> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
>>>> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming
>>>> in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion.
>>>> I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation
>>>> BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of .018"
>>>> versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap is a
>>>> more important issue. I want some of them......
>>>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip?????? They
>>>> are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>>>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>>>> gap)?????
>>>>
>>>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>>>> Don Smythe
>>>> Do Not Archive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
I do not know why anyone would clean a plug when they are available new for
less than 2 dollars each. Yes this is the NGK Stock # 3863 Stock # 3961
BR8ES, B8ES plugs . Solid cap plugs .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
> Kurt-
> I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug cleaning machines...I've
> heard for the last 10 years or so, not to use a sandblasting machine for
> cleaning spark plugs. Are there other cleaning machines that do not use
> sand? The theory goes that the sand blasts the
> ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is bad for the plug.
> Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify this info.
>
> Lynn
> On Friday, December 8, 2006, at 04:48 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
>
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Remember, if you trim plugs this way to make sure that
>> there are no metal filings left in the plug recesses
>> to be introduced into the engine. Same when using
>> spark plug cleaning machines. Those abbrasives can
>> really tear up a cylinder.
>>
>> Kurt S S-5
>>
>> --- Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@i-star.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and
>>> I know we're all learning a lot about spark plugs
>>> and that's a good thing, but these plugs aren't
>>> really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
>>> correct heat range available at the local auto parts
>>> house and like Don says, stake the cap on.
>>> Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
>>> there. As for the ground terminal being too long,
>>> it's very simple to just gently tap it to the
>>> correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim it
>>> back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
>>> nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat
>>> and square with sharp right angles. It only takes a
>>> few minutes per plug.
>>> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in
>>> the winter time people close the gap to the minimum
>>> to help with easier starts. I'm speaking of the
>>> 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
>>> but I doubt it.
>>> Deke
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number |
John,
Here is the Rotax part number for you for those plugs. >>The Rotax part
number is 897-055..... .<<
Dave
<aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
John,
There is no NJK stock number for the plug that Rotax sells. These are
configured for Rotax in Austria by NGK....I am not sure, but I think they
also congigure the plugs for a couple of other 2-stroke manufacturers as
well.
The Rotax part number is 897-055..... .
If I can fugure out my new digital camera software (off topic, but....why
cant manufacturers come up with software programs that those of us over 55
can understand).. I will post pictures of both types of plugs on the list.
regards
Bob Robertson
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
> OK now im really confused . NGK says NO WE DO NOT MAKE PLUGS JUST FOR
> ROTAX . So where is the part number if Rotax is having them made by NGK ?
> there has to be a number for them to order them by . I aint gonna believe
> NGK makes them for Rotax until I see a Number or stock number or something
> from NGK that proves otherwise. NGK says Rotax must be modifying them
> themselves . This is straight from NGK . Somewhere somehow someday we are
> going to find out the facts LOL. Just hope its sooner than later .
>
> Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX
> John Perry
> Kitfox 2 N718PD
> 582 C BOX 2:62-1,clutch included
> Hot pink IVO Inflight 68" 3 blade
> TD / Straight Floats
> 580-695-8778
> eskflyer@lvcisp.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 5:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
>
>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>
>> John,
>> As stated in another post... These plugs do come from NGK as they
>> stand....They are configured for Rotax at the NGK factory... Your contact
>> at NGK is correct... There is no NGK number
>> for this configuration. and nope..... Rotax is not modifying them.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Bob Robertson
>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>> Rotax Service Center
>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dave Look at the solid cap NGK plugs . NGK told me they do not make a
>>> aviation plug in BR8ES or B8ES , So where are these plugs coming from .
>>> I would guess Rotax is modifying them then ?. Go get Stock number # 3863
>>> and stock number #3961 and compare these.
>>> Take care fly safe fly low fly slow
>>>
>>> John Perry
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Bob and All .
>>>> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
>>>> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
>>>> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>>>>
>>>> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>>>>
>>>> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays -
>>>> who knows.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don....
>>>>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation
>>>>> solid core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>>>>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their
>>>>> plugs sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core
>>>>> plugs
>>>>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the ones
>>>>> we were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because ,firstly, they
>>>>> were marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the gap and grounding
>>>>> tab were different. We returned all but 30 of these (a back up in
>>>>> case we got short stocked on the ones we were getting from Rotax).
>>>>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling
>>>>> the automotive plug.
>>>>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle
>>>>> the plugs we get from Rotax.
>>>>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats (not
>>>>> indicidual boxes).
>>>>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms
>>>>> of performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals,
>>>>> I doubt you would see any difference.
>>>>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be
>>>>> a difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour
>>>>> change out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but
>>>>> the plugs seem to be going the distance).
>>>>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Robertson
>>>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>>>> Rotax Service Center
>>>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>>>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Guys,
>>>>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
>>>>> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
>>>>> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming
>>>>> in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion.
>>>>> I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation
>>>>> BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of
>>>>> .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap
>>>>> is a more important issue. I want some of them......
>>>>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip??????
>>>>> They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>>>>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>>>>> gap)?????
>>>>>
>>>>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>>>>> Don Smythe
>>>>> Do Not Archive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number |
Dave
thanks I have that number already it is not a NGK number . It is rotaxes
part number only . We need a NGK number for the Plugs rotax supplies if they
are made by NGK .I still believe Rotax Modifies them in house in Austria . I
could be all washed up on this but till I we find out for shure I am gonna
keep asking .
By the way Dave your videos are fantastic keep it up you have alot to say
and we all learn from each other.
Fly safe fly low fly slow
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number
>
> John,
>
> Here is the Rotax part number for you for those plugs. >>The Rotax part
> number is 897-055..... .<<
>
> Dave
>
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> John,
> There is no NJK stock number for the plug that Rotax sells. These are
> configured for Rotax in Austria by NGK....I am not sure, but I think they
> also congigure the plugs for a couple of other 2-stroke manufacturers as
> well.
> The Rotax part number is 897-055..... .
> If I can fugure out my new digital camera software (off topic, but....why
> cant manufacturers come up with software programs that those of us over 55
> can understand).. I will post pictures of both types of plugs on the list.
>
> regards
> Bob Robertson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
>
>>
>> OK now im really confused . NGK says NO WE DO NOT MAKE PLUGS JUST FOR
>> ROTAX . So where is the part number if Rotax is having them made by NGK ?
>> there has to be a number for them to order them by . I aint gonna believe
>> NGK makes them for Rotax until I see a Number or stock number or
>> something from NGK that proves otherwise. NGK says Rotax must be
>> modifying them themselves . This is straight from NGK . Somewhere somehow
>> someday we are going to find out the facts LOL. Just hope its sooner than
>> later .
>>
>> Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX
>> John Perry
>> Kitfox 2 N718PD
>> 582 C BOX 2:62-1,clutch included
>> Hot pink IVO Inflight 68" 3 blade
>> TD / Straight Floats
>> 580-695-8778
>> eskflyer@lvcisp.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 5:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>
>>
>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>
>>> John,
>>> As stated in another post... These plugs do come from NGK as they
>>> stand....They are configured for Rotax at the NGK factory... Your
>>> contact at NGK is correct... There is no NGK number
>>> for this configuration. and nope..... Rotax is not modifying them.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Bob Robertson
>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>> Rotax Service Center
>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave Look at the solid cap NGK plugs . NGK told me they do not make a
>>>> aviation plug in BR8ES or B8ES , So where are these plugs coming from .
>>>> I would guess Rotax is modifying them then ?. Go get Stock number #
>>>> 3863 and stock number #3961 and compare these.
>>>> Take care fly safe fly low fly slow
>>>>
>>>> John Perry
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:48 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Bob and All .
>>>>> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
>>>>> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
>>>>> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays -
>>>>> who knows.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don....
>>>>>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation
>>>>>> solid core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>>>>>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their
>>>>>> plugs sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core
>>>>>> plugs
>>>>>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the
>>>>>> ones we were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because
>>>>>> ,firstly, they were marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the
>>>>>> gap and grounding tab were different. We returned all but 30 of
>>>>>> these (a back up in case we got short stocked on the ones we were
>>>>>> getting from Rotax).
>>>>>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling
>>>>>> the automotive plug.
>>>>>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle
>>>>>> the plugs we get from Rotax.
>>>>>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats
>>>>>> (not indicidual boxes).
>>>>>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms
>>>>>> of performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals,
>>>>>> I doubt you would see any difference.
>>>>>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be
>>>>>> a difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour
>>>>>> change out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but
>>>>>> the plugs seem to be going the distance).
>>>>>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Robertson
>>>>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>>>>> Rotax Service Center
>>>>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>>>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>>>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>>>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>>>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>>>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
>>>>>> excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days
>>>>>> (beat it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and
>>>>>> pieces are coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at
>>>>>> least, my confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the
>>>>>> aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered
>>>>>> pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter
>>>>>> ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want some of
>>>>>> them......
>>>>>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip??????
>>>>>> They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>>>>>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>>>>>> gap)?????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>>>>>> Don Smythe
>>>>>> Do Not Archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 33
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You are right Lynn,
I got rid of my plug cleaning machine many years ago.
It didn't use sand, but any abrasive can produce
damage if not thouroughly cleaned out. (Mine
supposedly didn't harm the ceramic. If I remember
correctly, it used ceramic chips)
If you are buying aviation plugs at around $10 each
and 2 per cyl, cleaning them may still make economic
sense.
And if you modify them a Deke suggests, you need to
carefully clean out any debris, just like the blasting
material, as well.
So, the need to clean plugs can still come up and that
is why I made the suggestion.
Kurt S.
--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> Kurt-
> I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug
> cleaning
> machines...I've heard for the last 10 years or so,
> not to use a
> sandblasting machine for cleaning spark plugs. Are
> there other cleaning
> machines that do not use sand? The theory goes that
> the sand blasts the
> ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is
> bad for the plug.
> Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify
> this info.
>
> Lynn
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater Questions |
I like your idea better Lowell. If we come to a
survival situation, it will be with what we have on
and possibly with injuries. Wear what you wear
outside and you will be better prepared.
Kurt S. S-5
--- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Nick,
> ...............
> It will take the chill off my feet, but I still
> wear warm clothing. Another guy with the SS heater
> flys in his shirtsleeves.
>
> Lowell
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