Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:56 AM - Re: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number (dave)
2. 03:53 AM - Ski flying (dave)
3. 05:03 AM - Re: Spark Plugs More pics for you (fox5flyer)
4. 05:19 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Noel Loveys)
5. 05:30 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Noel Loveys)
6. 05:33 AM - Re: Cabin Heater Questions (Noel Loveys)
7. 05:42 AM - (MA Stanard)
8. 05:52 AM - Re: Spark Plugs More pics for you (Noel Loveys)
9. 06:48 AM - Re: Spark Plugs More pics for you (dave)
10. 07:50 AM - Re: Cabin Heater Questions (Lowell Fitt)
11. 08:02 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Lowell Fitt)
12. 08:09 AM - Re: Cabin Heater Questions (Dave G.)
13. 08:23 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (fox5flyer)
14. 08:28 AM - Re: (fox5flyer)
15. 08:40 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Bob Robertson)
16. 08:41 AM - Re:was now cabin heat (Don Smythe)
17. 08:43 AM - Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? (Bob Robertson)
18. 10:43 AM - Re: (ron schick)
19. 11:26 AM - Re: Spark Plugs (Lynn Matteson)
20. 01:06 PM - Re: (Marco Menezes)
21. 05:02 PM - Builder's Assistance (Lowell Fitt)
22. 05:11 PM - Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? (john perry)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number |
John,
Ok I see some are still confused on this plug issue. I think that NGK makes
these for Rotax exclusivley possibly ?
Rotax makes engines not plugs. I will only assume they outsource it all. But
as you can see ther is a differance to what is available at retail.
LEAF list the rotax number here
http://store.leadingedgeairfoils.com/product_info.php?products_id=10473
And we all know that BOB has them and he has helped out on this topic
immensly.
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
www.rtx-av-engines.ca
www.aerocontrols.net
Dave
http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/
Glad you liked the videos i did. Will try to get some more done one day.
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number
>
> Dave
> thanks I have that number already it is not a NGK number . It is rotaxes
> part number only . We need a NGK number for the Plugs rotax supplies if
> they are made by NGK .I still believe Rotax Modifies them in house in
> Austria . I could be all washed up on this but till I we find out for
> shure I am gonna keep asking .
> By the way Dave your videos are fantastic keep it up you have alot to say
> and we all learn from each other.
>
> Fly safe fly low fly slow
> John Perry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs __The RoTax Part number
>
>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> Here is the Rotax part number for you for those plugs. >>The Rotax part
>> number is 897-055..... .<<
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>
>> John,
>> There is no NJK stock number for the plug that Rotax sells. These are
>> configured for Rotax in Austria by NGK....I am not sure, but I think they
>> also congigure the plugs for a couple of other 2-stroke manufacturers as
>> well.
>> The Rotax part number is 897-055..... .
>> If I can fugure out my new digital camera software (off topic, but....why
>> cant manufacturers come up with software programs that those of us over
>> 55
>> can understand).. I will post pictures of both types of plugs on the
>> list.
>>
>> regards
>> Bob Robertson
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> OK now im really confused . NGK says NO WE DO NOT MAKE PLUGS JUST FOR
>>> ROTAX . So where is the part number if Rotax is having them made by NGK
>>> ? there has to be a number for them to order them by . I aint gonna
>>> believe NGK makes them for Rotax until I see a Number or stock number or
>>> something from NGK that proves otherwise. NGK says Rotax must be
>>> modifying them themselves . This is straight from NGK . Somewhere
>>> somehow someday we are going to find out the facts LOL. Just hope its
>>> sooner than later .
>>>
>>> Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX
>>> John Perry
>>> Kitfox 2 N718PD
>>> 582 C BOX 2:62-1,clutch included
>>> Hot pink IVO Inflight 68" 3 blade
>>> TD / Straight Floats
>>> 580-695-8778
>>> eskflyer@lvcisp.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 5:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>>
>>>
>>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>> As stated in another post... These plugs do come from NGK as they
>>>> stand....They are configured for Rotax at the NGK factory... Your
>>>> contact at NGK is correct... There is no NGK number
>>>> for this configuration. and nope..... Rotax is not modifying them.
>>>>
>>>> regards
>>>>
>>>> Bob Robertson
>>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>>> Rotax Service Center
>>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave Look at the solid cap NGK plugs . NGK told me they do not make a
>>>>> aviation plug in BR8ES or B8ES , So where are these plugs coming from
>>>>> . I would guess Rotax is modifying them then ?. Go get Stock number #
>>>>> 3863 and stock number #3961 and compare these.
>>>>> Take care fly safe fly low fly slow
>>>>>
>>>>> John Perry
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:48 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Bob and All .
>>>>>> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
>>>>>> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
>>>>>> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays -
>>>>>> who knows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don....
>>>>>>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation
>>>>>>> solid core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>>>>>>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their
>>>>>>> plugs sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core
>>>>>>> plugs
>>>>>>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the
>>>>>>> ones we were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because
>>>>>>> ,firstly, they were marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the
>>>>>>> gap and grounding tab were different. We returned all but 30 of
>>>>>>> these (a back up in case we got short stocked on the ones we were
>>>>>>> getting from Rotax).
>>>>>>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling
>>>>>>> the automotive plug.
>>>>>>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle
>>>>>>> the plugs we get from Rotax.
>>>>>>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats
>>>>>>> (not indicidual boxes).
>>>>>>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms
>>>>>>> of performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour
>>>>>>> intervals, I doubt you would see any difference.
>>>>>>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would
>>>>>>> be a difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour
>>>>>>> change out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but
>>>>>>> the plugs seem to be going the distance).
>>>>>>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob Robertson
>>>>>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>>>>>> Rotax Service Center
>>>>>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>>>>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>>>>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>>>>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>>>>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>>>>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
>>>>>>> excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days
>>>>>>> (beat it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and
>>>>>>> pieces are coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at
>>>>>>> least, my confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about
>>>>>>> the aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the
>>>>>>> delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion,
>>>>>>> the shorter ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want
>>>>>>> some of them......
>>>>>>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip??????
>>>>>>> They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid
>>>>>>> tip/.018" gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto
>>>>>>> store (.035" gap)?????
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>>>>>>> Don Smythe
>>>>>>> Do Not Archive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Ok, Season is here and A few are ski flyers and sounds like a few more
will becoming Ski fliers.
I wanted to say a good story from Noel a few days ago on the coffin that got
tossed from the Beaver. I got a good chuckle anyhow. He did bring on a
good point with the greenage put along the runway. One thing I have always
used on Ski planes is a good set of sunglasses or coloured lens that suit
you th best for giving good depth perception.
For anyone that has skied you will know how those cloudy days give the worst
depth perception from flat and low light conditions. And when on skis if
you cannot see the surface at all then you might not see ruts, drifts and
chunks of ice and snow on your intended take off or landing path. This can
spell disaster very quickly. So you have to be able to see better. Now add
some blowing snow and ground drifting and you will be even more blind.
I have found that yellow glasses work well you know the ones used for
shooting. I wear glasses and I have a pair of yellow safety glasses in the
plane . I also have my old Bolle IREX lens which are prescription ground.
There are mountaineering glasses and work excellent. I am sure most have
decent sunglasses now with IR and UV protection so next time you out in
the snow take a few pairs with you and see what works best. I even find
these help alot in the cars during snowy days adn whiteout conditions in the
daytimer as the light refracts off the blowing snow.
Also dress for winter in case you go down. zero F is not place to be
with just pants and sweat shirt. I carry a winter survival kit with me as
well as lots of waterproof matches, rope , hatchet, saw and a few small
tarps and extra gloves and hat.
Heater - Cabin heat . I have a scoop off the back of my radiator that
blows heated air about 160 F into the cabin on each side of the flap handle
through 2 1" holes -- Not enough for below 20F but helps a bit. I also
have a heat muff on the Muffler 13 " x 9 " that is piped into the cabin
via 2 1 1/2" Scat tubes. This makes me comfortable down to -10 F . at
this OAT the cabin will be about 40 to 45 F on a cloudy day and warmer on
sunny days. On a average winter day with temps at 20 F the cain will be
about 50 to 60 F on a cloudy day. Good heater is certainly worth the
effort.
Good battery is always helpful but also on my 582 good handproping skills
is VERY Helpful if you do not have a pull start. The ducati igntion needs
minimum of 250 RPM to get a spark generated and when temps get below 30 F I
find with that cold viscous gear oil it slows the starter enough that it
can be hard to start. I always turn over the prop about 10 ot 15 turns to
help loosen up oil a bit. But this is not always enough. But a few good
swings of the prop and it will usually fire right away. (YES those 3 to 1
gear gear boxes really spin that engine quick enought by hand. ) Your
enricher ( some call it a choke ) will work but a primer makes the easiest
starts. Nothing sucks more than when you are all set to go out a pristine
cold winter day and the engine will not fire.
Good walk around as usual but including your skis , bungees, crust cutter
cable and safety cables. I see many guys use a bungee from tip of ski amd
this can lead to failure of the bugge from snow abrasion so keep an eye on
them. Those 4 ot 5 foot skis put a good strain on your axles and gear as
well, so always keep a sharp eye for anything that does not look still
"aligned" on those big feet of yours. Surely most of you know but always
look for frost and ice ...... It will destroy alot if not all your lift.
AS well as ice on control surfaces can cause binding.
Make sure drain holes are clear in fuselage and you have not picked up 10
or 20 pounds inside your tail of ice from weather.
I could go on but Sun will be up soon here and time to go Ski flying !
Thanks to Paul Seehafer for the good write up on Ski flying and the video
link . Thanks Paul and great video !!
And once you all get on skis and floats -- you just might realize what you
been missing and throw those silly black rubber doughnuts away you been used
to :-)
You think landing on glassy water is smooth - try it 2 to 3 feet of fresh
snow !!
Dave
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs More pics for you |
Forty Inches, Yikes! Only about 8 inches here and I'm grounded
temporarily. Too cold right now anyway.
No, Dave I didn't miss the point at all. I put 400 hours on my
582/M2 and had the same problem, but found that by changing the plugs
at the recommended 25 hour intervals, the damage to the tip was
minimal and caused no problem. Plugs are cheap. Sure, the little
divet was visible on the plug tip, but it didn't reduce it's
effectiveness. All I was trying to offer is that there is more than
one way to skin a cat. Another way is to eliminate the resistor cap
and run good quality auto caps with the resistor plugs.
Regards,
Deke
>Deke,
>
>I think you missed the point on the screw on caps. To secure them on
>whatd you say is fine to secure them but since they are made of
>Aluminum the Steel wire inside the NGK CAP that secures the cap to
>the spark plug has a metal interaction with the Alum Tip and causes
>it to wear . If you look here
>http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/tipsblack.htm you will see the flat spot
>on the tips.
>
>Now this is why I saw why not just get a plug that has very close to
>proper gap, tip in the first place ?
>I have logged over 1000 hours in 2 stroke 2 cylinders and have learnt
>about this from my own experience and from other planes that have
>come in here. Bottom line is use what works and I do and am sharing
>this to help others have less .difficulties.
>
>I
>Dave
>
>PS -- We got about 40 inches over night -- Will the Fox be able to
>handle that ? :-))))))))
>
> I have straight skis, I doubt Wheel skis would be much fun today
>unless they are retractable wheel skis . :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fox5flyer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 7:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and I know we're
>all learning a lot about spark plugs and that's a good thing, but
>these plugs aren't really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
>correct heat range available at the local auto parts house and like
>Don says, stake the cap on. Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to
>hold it on there. As for the ground terminal being too long, it's
>very simple to just gently tap it to the correct gap, then use a file
>or dremel to trim it back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
>nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat and square with
>sharp right angles. It only takes a few minutes per plug.
> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in the winter time
>people close the gap to the minimum to help with easier starts. I'm
>speaking of the 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
>but I doubt it.
> Deke
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Smythe
> To: Kitfox List
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:00 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
> Guys,
> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
>excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days
>(beat it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and
>pieces are coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at
>least, my confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about
>the aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the
>delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the
>shorter ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want some
>of them......
> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid
>tip?????? They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver
>solid tip/.018" gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the
>auto store (.035" gap)?????
>
> Still Confused but will get straight,
> Don Smythe
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com
>/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.ma
>tron
>
>
WebMail Express+ - http://www.i-star.com Internet Access from $7.95
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Certainly if you use the sandblasting machine you will want to pressure test
the plug before installing it. I've seen spark plugs cleaned with an awl...
Carefully pick out the debris. Definitely not recommended but common enough
to mention.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:30 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
>
> Kurt-
> I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug cleaning
> machines...I've heard for the last 10 years or so, not to use a
> sandblasting machine for cleaning spark plugs. Are there
> other cleaning
> machines that do not use sand? The theory goes that the sand
> blasts the
> ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is bad for
> the plug.
> Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify this info.
>
> Lynn
> On Friday, December 8, 2006, at 04:48 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
>
> > <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Remember, if you trim plugs this way to make sure that
> > there are no metal filings left in the plug recesses
> > to be introduced into the engine. Same when using
> > spark plug cleaning machines. Those abbrasives can
> > really tear up a cylinder.
> >
> > Kurt S S-5
> >
> > --- Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@i-star.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and
> >> I know we're all learning a lot about spark plugs
> >> and that's a good thing, but these plugs aren't
> >> really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
> >> correct heat range available at the local auto parts
> >> house and like Don says, stake the cap on.
> >> Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
> >> there. As for the ground terminal being too long,
> >> it's very simple to just gently tap it to the
> >> correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim it
> >> back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
> >> nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat
> >> and square with sharp right angles. It only takes a
> >> few minutes per plug.
> >> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in
> >> the winter time people close the gap to the minimum
> >> to help with easier starts. I'm speaking of the
> >> 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
> >> but I doubt it.
> >> Deke
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Some of those aviation plugs are the dear side of $50.00/plug. After
cleaning, by whatever method, they really should be blown out with air (
100psi or more ) and then pressure tested. It's amazing how some perfect
looking plugs arc all over the place only under pressure.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kurt schrader
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 2:40 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
>
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> You are right Lynn,
>
> I got rid of my plug cleaning machine many years ago.
> It didn't use sand, but any abrasive can produce
> damage if not thouroughly cleaned out. (Mine
> supposedly didn't harm the ceramic. If I remember
> correctly, it used ceramic chips)
>
> If you are buying aviation plugs at around $10 each
> and 2 per cyl, cleaning them may still make economic
> sense.
>
> And if you modify them a Deke suggests, you need to
> carefully clean out any debris, just like the blasting
> material, as well.
>
> So, the need to clean plugs can still come up and that
> is why I made the suggestion.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> > Kurt-
> > I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug
> > cleaning
> > machines...I've heard for the last 10 years or so,
> > not to use a
> > sandblasting machine for cleaning spark plugs. Are
> > there other cleaning
> > machines that do not use sand? The theory goes that
> > the sand blasts the
> > ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is
> > bad for the plug.
> > Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify
> > this info.
> >
> > Lynn
>
>
>
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
> www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cabin Heater Questions |
The best thing to have is survival training. Warm clothing in cold climes
is step one.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kurt schrader
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 2:47 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cabin Heater Questions
>
>
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> I like your idea better Lowell. If we come to a
> survival situation, it will be with what we have on
> and possibly with injuries. Wear what you wear
> outside and you will be better prepared.
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > Nick,
> > ...............
> > It will take the chill off my feet, but I still
> > wear warm clothing. Another guy with the SS heater
> > flys in his shirtsleeves.
> >
> > Lowell
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I am planning on installing an inverter behind the seat that will
connect to a separate battery. From the inverter I will run a small
electrical heater and mount it under the dash. Does anyone know why I
should not do this?
Michael
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Spark Plugs More pics for you |
The 582 is one of the few beasties that has a recommendation to use both
resistor caps and resistor plugs. I had the resistors on a set of plugs
short out once and even with the resistor caps communications line of sight
with the tower was impossible. If you are carrying a radio I don't think
the automotive style caps will work.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
> Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 9:42 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs More pics for you
>
>
>
>
> Forty Inches, Yikes! Only about 8 inches here and I'm grounded
> temporarily. Too cold right now anyway.
> No, Dave I didn't miss the point at all. I put 400 hours on my
> 582/M2 and had the same problem, but found that by changing the plugs
> at the recommended 25 hour intervals, the damage to the tip was
> minimal and caused no problem. Plugs are cheap. Sure, the little
> divet was visible on the plug tip, but it didn't reduce it's
> effectiveness. All I was trying to offer is that there is more than
> one way to skin a cat. Another way is to eliminate the resistor cap
> and run good quality auto caps with the resistor plugs.
> Regards,
> Deke
>
> >Deke,
> >
> >I think you missed the point on the screw on caps. To secure them on
> >whatd you say is fine to secure them but since they are made of
> >Aluminum the Steel wire inside the NGK CAP that secures the cap to
> >the spark plug has a metal interaction with the Alum Tip and causes
> >it to wear . If you look here
> >http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/tipsblack.htm you will see the flat spot
> >on the tips.
> >
> >Now this is why I saw why not just get a plug that has very close to
> >proper gap, tip in the first place ?
> >I have logged over 1000 hours in 2 stroke 2 cylinders and have learnt
> >about this from my own experience and from other planes that have
> >come in here. Bottom line is use what works and I do and am sharing
> >this to help others have less .difficulties.
> >
> >I
> >Dave
> >
> >PS -- We got about 40 inches over night -- Will the Fox be able to
> >handle that ? :-))))))))
> >
> > I have straight skis, I doubt Wheel skis would be much fun today
> >unless they are retractable wheel skis . :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Fox5flyer
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 7:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
> >
> >
> > Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and I know we're
> >all learning a lot about spark plugs and that's a good thing, but
> >these plugs aren't really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
> >correct heat range available at the local auto parts house and like
> >Don says, stake the cap on. Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to
> >hold it on there. As for the ground terminal being too long, it's
> >very simple to just gently tap it to the correct gap, then use a file
> >or dremel to trim it back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
> >nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat and square with
> >sharp right angles. It only takes a few minutes per plug.
> > Additionally, I remember that it was said that in the winter time
> >people close the gap to the minimum to help with easier starts. I'm
> >speaking of the 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
> >but I doubt it.
> > Deke
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Don Smythe
> > To: Kitfox List
> > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:00 PM
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
> >
> >
> > Guys,
> > Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
> >excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days
> >(beat it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and
> >pieces are coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at
> >least, my confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about
> >the aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the
> >delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the
> >shorter ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want some
> >of them......
> > So far, there have been part numbers given for solid
> >tip?????? They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver
> >solid tip/.018" gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the
> >auto store (.035" gap)?????
> >
> > Still Confused but will get straight,
> > Don Smythe
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> >
> >
> >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com
> >/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.ma
> >tron
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> WebMail Express+ - http://www.i-star.com Internet Access from $7.95
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs More pics for you |
Deke you are totally correct there ,
<<but found that by changing the plugs
> at the recommended 25 hour intervals>>
I know that once they come loose the arching starts which shows up on the
alum tip turning black and in turn can blow the resistance in the 5k ohm
caps. but you are right - frequent plug changes are just part of trouble
free operations. My 582 runs better with near 100 plugs now that my Polaris
700 with 2 hours on plugs. Go figure. !!
40 inches yes at deeepest...... by last night was settled to about 2 feet
or so...... today about 20 inches if that plus we have had soem
drifting -- winds been 10 to 20 knots all night and am here. But I did get
in a hour of flying this am, bouncing off fields that was nothing more than
ploughed 4 days ago to that fluffy stuff.
Will try to get some videos posted later for you guys.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@i-star.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs More pics for you
>
>
> Forty Inches, Yikes! Only about 8 inches here and I'm grounded
> temporarily. Too cold right now anyway.
> No, Dave I didn't miss the point at all. I put 400 hours on my
> 582/M2 and had the same problem, but found that by changing the plugs
> at the recommended 25 hour intervals, the damage to the tip was
> minimal and caused no problem. Plugs are cheap. Sure, the little
> divet was visible on the plug tip, but it didn't reduce it's
> effectiveness. All I was trying to offer is that there is more than
> one way to skin a cat. Another way is to eliminate the resistor cap
> and run good quality auto caps with the resistor plugs.
> Regards,
> Deke
>
>>Deke,
>>
>>I think you missed the point on the screw on caps. To secure them on
>>whatd you say is fine to secure them but since they are made of
>>Aluminum the Steel wire inside the NGK CAP that secures the cap to
>>the spark plug has a metal interaction with the Alum Tip and causes
>>it to wear . If you look here
>>http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/tipsblack.htm you will see the flat spot
>>on the tips.
>>
>>Now this is why I saw why not just get a plug that has very close to
>>proper gap, tip in the first place ?
>>I have logged over 1000 hours in 2 stroke 2 cylinders and have learnt
>>about this from my own experience and from other planes that have
>>come in here. Bottom line is use what works and I do and am sharing
>>this to help others have less .difficulties.
>>
>>I
>>Dave
>>
>>PS -- We got about 40 inches over night -- Will the Fox be able to
>>handle that ? :-))))))))
>>
>> I have straight skis, I doubt Wheel skis would be much fun today
>>unless they are retractable wheel skis . :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Fox5flyer
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 7:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and I know we're
>>all learning a lot about spark plugs and that's a good thing, but
>>these plugs aren't really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
>>correct heat range available at the local auto parts house and like
>>Don says, stake the cap on. Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to
>>hold it on there. As for the ground terminal being too long, it's
>>very simple to just gently tap it to the correct gap, then use a file
>>or dremel to trim it back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
>>nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat and square with
>>sharp right angles. It only takes a few minutes per plug.
>> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in the winter time
>>people close the gap to the minimum to help with easier starts. I'm
>>speaking of the 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
>>but I doubt it.
>> Deke
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Don Smythe
>> To: Kitfox List
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:00 PM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>> Guys,
>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
>>excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days
>>(beat it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and
>>pieces are coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at
>>least, my confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about
>>the aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the
>>delivered pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the
>>shorter ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want some
>>of them......
>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid
>>tip?????? They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver
>>solid tip/.018" gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the
>>auto store (.035" gap)?????
>>
>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>> Don Smythe
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>>
>>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>>href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com
>>/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.ma
>>tron
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> WebMail Express+ - http://www.i-star.com Internet Access from $7.95
>
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater Questions |
Kurt,
I had this conversation once with Burt Garrison. He flew the last
operational mission of the SR-71, then went on to fly the U-2 before
retirement and a position with SouthWest. I borrowed his hangar at Lincoln
Harder near Beal AFB when I did my first flight there in 1998. He said he
flew over the Sierras one beautiful clear winter day in a friends Luscombe
and it wasn't until he got home that he thought of his mistake. Since then
when I fly over rough winter terrain, I take my little tent, sleeping bag,
parka. etc.
I got some good advice from Burt, by just listening to his story.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cabin Heater Questions
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> I like your idea better Lowell. If we come to a
> survival situation, it will be with what we have on
> and possibly with injuries. Wear what you wear
> outside and you will be better prepared.
>
> Kurt S. S-5
>
> --- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Nick,
>> ...............
>> It will take the chill off my feet, but I still
>> wear warm clothing. Another guy with the SS heater
>> flys in his shirtsleeves.
>>
>> Lowell
>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I just read the LightSpeed installation manual for the electronic ignition
going into the Lancair IV. It recommends never using a blaster type
cleaner, but rather a propane torch to burn off any liquid deposits and a
"sharp steel" instrument to scrape off any hard deposits.
For what it's worth.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 5:18 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
> Certainly if you use the sandblasting machine you will want to pressure
> test
> the plug before installing it. I've seen spark plugs cleaned with an
> awl...
> Carefully pick out the debris. Definitely not recommended but common
> enough
> to mention.
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:30 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt-
>> I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug cleaning
>> machines...I've heard for the last 10 years or so, not to use a
>> sandblasting machine for cleaning spark plugs. Are there
>> other cleaning
>> machines that do not use sand? The theory goes that the sand
>> blasts the
>> ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is bad for
>> the plug.
>> Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify this info.
>>
>> Lynn
>> On Friday, December 8, 2006, at 04:48 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
>>
>> > <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > Remember, if you trim plugs this way to make sure that
>> > there are no metal filings left in the plug recesses
>> > to be introduced into the engine. Same when using
>> > spark plug cleaning machines. Those abbrasives can
>> > really tear up a cylinder.
>> >
>> > Kurt S S-5
>> >
>> > --- Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@i-star.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and
>> >> I know we're all learning a lot about spark plugs
>> >> and that's a good thing, but these plugs aren't
>> >> really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
>> >> correct heat range available at the local auto parts
>> >> house and like Don says, stake the cap on.
>> >> Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
>> >> there. As for the ground terminal being too long,
>> >> it's very simple to just gently tap it to the
>> >> correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim it
>> >> back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
>> >> nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat
>> >> and square with sharp right angles. It only takes a
>> >> few minutes per plug.
>> >> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in
>> >> the winter time people close the gap to the minimum
>> >> to help with easier starts. I'm speaking of the
>> >> 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
>> >> but I doubt it.
>> >> Deke
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heater Questions |
A personal locator beacon with GPS is a good idea for fliers or hunters or
really just about anyone heading into the wilderness, They'll find you a lot
faster if they know where you are.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cabin Heater Questions
>
> Kurt,
>
> I had this conversation once with Burt Garrison. He flew the last
> operational mission of the SR-71, then went on to fly the U-2 before
> retirement and a position with SouthWest. I borrowed his hangar at
> Lincoln Harder near Beal AFB when I did my first flight there in 1998. He
> said he flew over the Sierras one beautiful clear winter day in a friends
> Luscombe and it wasn't until he got home that he thought of his mistake.
> Since then when I fly over rough winter terrain, I take my little tent,
> sleeping bag, parka. etc.
>
> I got some good advice from Burt, by just listening to his story.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cabin Heater Questions
>
>
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> I like your idea better Lowell. If we come to a
>> survival situation, it will be with what we have on
>> and possibly with injuries. Wear what you wear
>> outside and you will be better prepared.
>>
>> Kurt S. S-5
>>
>> --- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Nick,
>>> ...............
>>> It will take the chill off my feet, but I still
>>> wear warm clothing. Another guy with the SS heater
>>> flys in his shirtsleeves.
>>>
>>> Lowell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Good point Noel. I once experienced a bad ignition miss while under
full power takeoff that straightened out when I reduced power to
cruise rpm. I spent many hours going through the ignition and fuel
system trying to track down the problem finding nothing amiss so I
decided to change plugs to see what happens. Problem solved. I've
got one of those hand held spark plug blasters that does a nice job
cleaning up a plug, but what they can also do is crack the insulator
that causes exactly what I was experiencing. I no longer use if for
my airplane plugs. If they get sooted up or look suspect I just
replace them with new ones. $10 for four plugs gives good peace of
mind.
Deke
><noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>
>Certainly if you use the sandblasting machine you will want to
>pressure test
>the plug before installing it. I've seen spark plugs cleaned with an
>awl...
>Carefully pick out the debris. Definitely not recommended but common
>enough
>to mention.
>
>Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:30 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt-
>> I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug cleaning
>> machines...I've heard for the last 10 years or so, not to use a
>> sandblasting machine for cleaning spark plugs. Are there
>> other cleaning
>> machines that do not use sand? The theory goes that the sand
>> blasts the
>> ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is bad for
>> the plug.
>> Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify this info.
>>
>> Lynn
>> On Friday, December 8, 2006, at 04:48 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
>>
>> > <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > Remember, if you trim plugs this way to make sure that
>> > there are no metal filings left in the plug recesses
>> > to be introduced into the engine. Same when using
>> > spark plug cleaning machines. Those abbrasives can
>> > really tear up a cylinder.
>> >
>> > Kurt S S-5
>> >
>> > --- Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@i-star.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and
>> >> I know we're all learning a lot about spark plugs
>> >> and that's a good thing, but these plugs aren't
>> >> really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
>> >> correct heat range available at the local auto parts
>> >> house and like Don says, stake the cap on.
>> >> Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
>> >> there. As for the ground terminal being too long,
>> >> it's very simple to just gently tap it to the
>> >> correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim it
>> >> back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
>> >> nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat
>> >> and square with sharp right angles. It only takes a
>> >> few minutes per plug.
>> >> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in
>> >> the winter time people close the gap to the minimum
>> >> to help with easier starts. I'm speaking of the
>> >> 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
>> >> but I doubt it.
>> >> Deke
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
WebMail Express+ - http://www.i-star.com Internet Access from $7.95
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Michael, this was a subject on the Aeroelectric list some years ago
and the consensus was that there's no way you can dredge up enough
wattage to produce enough heat to warm the cabin. Better to use the
conventional radiator/fan or exhaust muff. Each has it's pros and
cons. Lots of folks here on the list have come up with some very
inovative ways of heating the cabin.
Sorry I couldn't supply you with something positive. Just trying to
save you some time and expense.
Deke
---- Original Message ----
From: cgod@cebridge.net
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List:
>I am planning on installing an inverter behind the seat that will
>connect to a separate battery. From the inverter I will run a small
>electrical heater and mount it under the dash. Does anyone know why
>I should not do this?
>
>Michael
WebMail Express+ - http://www.i-star.com Internet Access from $7.95
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Lynn,
Thats the word we get from Rotax as well. The ceramic becomes pitted and
can crack due to uneven stresses when heated to 1000+ degreesF.
That's the theory I was given.
regards
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>
> Kurt-
> I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug cleaning machines...I've
> heard for the last 10 years or so, not to use a sandblasting machine for
> cleaning spark plugs. Are there other cleaning machines that do not use
> sand? The theory goes that the sand blasts the
> ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is bad for the plug.
> Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify this info.
>
> Lynn
> On Friday, December 8, 2006, at 04:48 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
>
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Remember, if you trim plugs this way to make sure that
>> there are no metal filings left in the plug recesses
>> to be introduced into the engine. Same when using
>> spark plug cleaning machines. Those abbrasives can
>> really tear up a cylinder.
>>
>> Kurt S S-5
>>
>> --- Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@i-star.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey guys, I'm not trying to inhibit this thread and
>>> I know we're all learning a lot about spark plugs
>>> and that's a good thing, but these plugs aren't
>>> really all that much of a problem. Just buy the
>>> correct heat range available at the local auto parts
>>> house and like Don says, stake the cap on.
>>> Alternatively, use a drop of locktite to hold it on
>>> there. As for the ground terminal being too long,
>>> it's very simple to just gently tap it to the
>>> correct gap, then use a file or dremel to trim it
>>> back to the correct length, being sure to avoid
>>> nicking the electrode. Be sure that the end is flat
>>> and square with sharp right angles. It only takes a
>>> few minutes per plug.
>>> Additionally, I remember that it was said that in
>>> the winter time people close the gap to the minimum
>>> to help with easier starts. I'm speaking of the
>>> 582s here, not the 912 which may be a bit different,
>>> but I doubt it.
>>> Deke
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: now cabin heat |
I fabricated an alum heat muff to fit around 1/2 the muffler which is held
in place with two large hose clamps. Air comes in (see bottom of cowl
opening in attached pic). A short piece of scat tubing connects back side
of cowl to the input of the heat muff. Another scat tube attaches from the
output of the heat muff to a cockpit controlled door on the firewall.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@i-star.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List:
>
>
> Michael, this was a subject on the Aeroelectric list some years ago
> and the consensus was that there's no way you can dredge up enough
> wattage to produce enough heat to warm the cabin. Better to use the
> conventional radiator/fan or exhaust muff. Each has it's pros and
> cons. Lots of folks here on the list have come up with some very
> inovative ways of heating the cabin.
> Sorry I couldn't supply you with something positive. Just trying to
> save you some time and expense.
> Deke
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: cgod@cebridge.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List:
> Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 07:42:02 -0600
>
>>I am planning on installing an inverter behind the seat that will
>>connect to a separate battery. From the inverter I will run a small
>>electrical heater and mount it under the dash. Does anyone know why
>>I should not do this?
>>
>>Michael
>
>
> WebMail Express+ - http://www.i-star.com Internet Access from $7.95
>
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? |
Perry,
I guess you will just have to wait. I would believe that NGK in North
America do not have all the info and internal goings on of NGK's head
office.
I can only tell you what is passed along to us from Rotax.
regards
Bob R
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
> OK now im really confused . NGK says NO WE DO NOT MAKE PLUGS JUST FOR
> ROTAX . So where is the part number if Rotax is having them made by NGK ?
> there has to be a number for them to order them by . I aint gonna believe
> NGK makes them for Rotax until I see a Number or stock number or something
> from NGK that proves otherwise. NGK says Rotax must be modifying them
> themselves . This is straight from NGK . Somewhere somehow someday we are
> going to find out the facts LOL. Just hope its sooner than later .
>
> Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX
> John Perry
> Kitfox 2 N718PD
> 582 C BOX 2:62-1,clutch included
> Hot pink IVO Inflight 68" 3 blade
> TD / Straight Floats
> 580-695-8778
> eskflyer@lvcisp.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 5:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>
>
>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>
>> John,
>> As stated in another post... These plugs do come from NGK as they
>> stand....They are configured for Rotax at the NGK factory... Your contact
>> at NGK is correct... There is no NGK number
>> for this configuration. and nope..... Rotax is not modifying them.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Bob Robertson
>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>> Rotax Service Center
>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dave Look at the solid cap NGK plugs . NGK told me they do not make a
>>> aviation plug in BR8ES or B8ES , So where are these plugs coming from .
>>> I would guess Rotax is modifying them then ?. Go get Stock number # 3863
>>> and stock number #3961 and compare these.
>>> Take care fly safe fly low fly slow
>>>
>>> John Perry
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Bob and All .
>>>> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
>>>> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
>>>> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>>>>
>>>> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>>>>
>>>> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays -
>>>> who knows.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don....
>>>>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation
>>>>> solid core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>>>>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their
>>>>> plugs sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core
>>>>> plugs
>>>>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the ones
>>>>> we were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because ,firstly, they
>>>>> were marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the gap and grounding
>>>>> tab were different. We returned all but 30 of these (a back up in
>>>>> case we got short stocked on the ones we were getting from Rotax).
>>>>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling
>>>>> the automotive plug.
>>>>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle
>>>>> the plugs we get from Rotax.
>>>>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats (not
>>>>> indicidual boxes).
>>>>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms
>>>>> of performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals,
>>>>> I doubt you would see any difference.
>>>>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be
>>>>> a difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour
>>>>> change out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but
>>>>> the plugs seem to be going the distance).
>>>>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob Robertson
>>>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>>>> Rotax Service Center
>>>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>>>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Guys,
>>>>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get excited
>>>>> about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days (beat it to
>>>>> death and come up with all the facts). The bits and pieces are coming
>>>>> in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at least, my confusion.
>>>>> I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the aviation/non aviation
>>>>> BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered pre-gap settings of
>>>>> .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter ground and .018" gap
>>>>> is a more important issue. I want some of them......
>>>>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip??????
>>>>> They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>>>>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>>>>> gap)?????
>>>>>
>>>>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>>>>> Don Smythe
>>>>> Do Not Archive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
An exhaust muff and scat hose is low tech and low weight by comparison. Far
more BTU's available per pound. The inverter would not increase the power
available from the battery.
Ron NB Ore
>From: "MA Stanard" <cgod@cebridge.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 07:42:02 -0600
>
>I am planning on installing an inverter behind the seat that will connect
>to a separate battery. From the inverter I will run a small electrical
>heater and mount it under the dash. Does anyone know why I should not do
>this?
>
>Michael
_________________________________________________________________
Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday
cash from MSN today!
http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I'm running a Jabiru, and they use the NGK D9EA plug, or the Iridium
plug of another number. I haven't run the Iridium yet, as I'm still on
my 2nd set of the number mentioned. The Iridium's are $10 each at my
car dealers, or $8 each at the Jabiru dealer. I'm told they idle
smoother. At $64-80 for a change, I'm gonna think about this for a bit.
My first set of D9EA's lasted for well over 100 hours, and I only
changed them because I wanted to look at them, and had another new set
waiting to go in. I may try the Iridium's down the road a piece.
Lynn
On Saturday, December 9, 2006, at 01:09 AM, kurt schrader wrote:
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> You are right Lynn,
>
> I got rid of my plug cleaning machine many years ago.
> It didn't use sand, but any abrasive can produce
> damage if not thouroughly cleaned out. (Mine
> supposedly didn't harm the ceramic. If I remember
> correctly, it used ceramic chips)
>
> If you are buying aviation plugs at around $10 each
> and 2 per cyl, cleaning them may still make economic
> sense.
>
> And if you modify them a Deke suggests, you need to
> carefully clean out any debris, just like the blasting
> material, as well.
>
> So, the need to clean plugs can still come up and that
> is why I made the suggestion.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
>> Kurt-
>> I'm surprised to hear/read you mention spark plug
>> cleaning
>> machines...I've heard for the last 10 years or so,
>> not to use a
>> sandblasting machine for cleaning spark plugs. Are
>> there other cleaning
>> machines that do not use sand? The theory goes that
>> the sand blasts the
>> ceramic/porcelain...whatever...insulator and this is
>> bad for the plug.
>> Maybe somebody else closer to the subject can verify
>> this info.
>>
>> Lynn
>
>
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try
> it now.
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Michael,
"Electric heat" usually is generated by resistance, i.e. current passing thru
an element, heating that until it glows and so hearing the surrounding air. Resistance
heat draws alot of power. I doubt your extra battery can generate enough
power in this way to make a much of a difference in your cabin temperature,
unless of course the resistance element sets fire to your airplane. ;-)
MA Stanard <cgod@cebridge.net> wrote:
I am planning on installing an inverter behind the seat that will connect
to a separate battery. From the inverter I will run a small electrical heater
and mount it under the dash. Does anyone know why I should not do this?
Michael
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Builder's Assistance |
List,
I just got word that a friend wants to get involved with builders
assistance. He has a long history in aviation primarily as former owner of
an aviation fastener and specialty tools company. He has built and flown
two Kitfoxes, a Model I and a Model IV. Here is a guy with first hand
knowledge of the earlier Kitfoxes and familiarity with the newer models.
If anyone wants more information, please contact me off list and I will
forward the pertinent information.
Lowell
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ? |
Bob
It is interesting to note that in all Skidoo,s with Rotax engines
recommended plugs for engines are common stock numbered NGK plugs . One Plug
in particular is used in many of the rotax engines as recommended by Rotax
that is the plug BR8ES Stock number #3961 these plugs have to be gapped by
the owner when replacing them ,they come pre gapped though by rotax or
skidoo when buying a new machine . gaps are anywhere form .016 to .045
depending on the vehicle and machine and how it is to be used . Now when you
go to the dealer they will look up the part by the manufacturer number as in
rotaxes specs it says for 582 Rotax number# 897-055 . and what they hand you
is a NGK part number 3961 gapped to the spec for that application not by NGK
but by someone else. Who is this someone else I guess rotax is taking the
time to gap the same plug and charging us more but there is absolutely no
difference in the plug other than the gap .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>
> Perry,
> I guess you will just have to wait. I would believe that NGK in North
> America do not have all the info and internal goings on of NGK's head
> office.
> I can only tell you what is passed along to us from Rotax.
>
> regards
>
> Bob R
>
-----
>>>> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:48 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs BOb can you comment ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Bob and All .
>>>>> I took a few pics of the different plugs here.
>>>>> Been a long day so I hope i got it right.
>>>>> http://www.cfisher.com/ngk.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know if I screwed it up .
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW we got over 12 inches of white stuff today- how long it stays -
>>>>> who knows.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Bob Robertson" <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:59 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> <aerocontrols@clearwave.ca>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don....
>>>>>> O.K. there are solid core automotove plugs and there are aviation
>>>>>> solid core plugs. The auto plugs have a larger gap (.035+-)
>>>>>> I can't comment on what other service centers are doing for their
>>>>>> plugs sales. I know we purchased a case of automotive solid core
>>>>>> plugs
>>>>>> because they wer a dollar or so less expensive (my cost) that the
>>>>>> ones we were buying from Rotax.. I was dissapointed because
>>>>>> ,firstly, they were marked "not for aircraft use" and secondly ,the
>>>>>> gap and grounding tab were different. We returned all but 30 of
>>>>>> these (a back up in case we got short stocked on the ones we were
>>>>>> getting from Rotax).
>>>>>> I would not be suprised that some Rotax dealers are actually selling
>>>>>> the automotive plug.
>>>>>> I'm pretty sure that Lockwood, LEAF and South Misissippi all handle
>>>>>> the plugs we get from Rotax.
>>>>>> As they come from Austria, our plugs come in bulk styrafoam flats
>>>>>> (not indicidual boxes).
>>>>>> How much difference are there between the two type of plugs in terms
>>>>>> of performance. Iff'n you change the plugs out at 25 hour intervals,
>>>>>> I doubt you would see any difference.
>>>>>> If you have a change out schedule of 50 hours I'm sure there would be
>>>>>> a difference. We have lots of customers who use a 75 or 100 hour
>>>>>> change out schedule (that's a lot longer than the manuals state, but
>>>>>> the plugs seem to be going the distance).
>>>>>> Hope this un-muddies the water a bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Robertson
>>>>>> Light Engine Services Ltd.
>>>>>> Rotax Service Center
>>>>>> Aero Control Enterprises, Inc.
>>>>>> St. Albert, Ab. T8N 1M8
>>>>>> Ph: (Tech Support) 1-780-418-4164
>>>>>> Ph: (Order Line) 1-866-418-4164 (TOLL FREE)
>>>>>> www.rtx-av-engines.ca
>>>>>> www.aerocontrols.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:00 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>> Bear with me on this spark plug issue. I'm starting to get
>>>>>> excited about this and it reminds me of the old "KITFOXSAFE" days
>>>>>> (beat it to death and come up with all the facts). The bits and
>>>>>> pieces are coming in and I'm sure there is a simple answer to at
>>>>>> least, my confusion. I've sent emails to CPS and NGK asking about the
>>>>>> aviation/non aviation BR8ES plugs. Also asking about the delivered
>>>>>> pre-gap settings of .018" versus .035". In my opinion, the shorter
>>>>>> ground and .018" gap is a more important issue. I want some of
>>>>>> them......
>>>>>> So far, there have been part numbers given for solid tip??????
>>>>>> They are for auto use only????? Rotax centers deliver solid tip/.018"
>>>>>> gap?????? CPS delivers the same as you get in the auto store (.035"
>>>>>> gap)?????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still Confused but will get straight,
>>>>>> Don Smythe
>>>>>> Do Not Archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|