----------------------------------------------------------
                           Kitfox-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Tue 12/19/06: 22
           ----------------------------------------------------------
 
 
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:05 AM - Re: Floats  (Paul Seehafer)
     2. 02:50 AM - Re: Stall speed noise  (Michel Verheughe)
     3. 03:11 AM - Re: Stall speed noise  (Michel Verheughe)
     4. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Stall speed noise  (Don Smythe)
     5. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: Stall speed noise  (kurt schrader)
     6. 06:04 AM - Re: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting  (kurt schrader)
     7. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Stall speed noise  (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
     8. 07:38 AM - Re: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting  (dave)
     9. 07:47 AM - Re: Floats  (dave)
    10. 07:55 AM - Re: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting  (PWilson)
    11. 07:56 AM - Re: Floats  (Marco Menezes)
    12. 09:06 AM - Re: First Flight G-CDXY  (David Steade)
    13. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: Trim Mount Bolt - Rudder Cable Interference  (kurt schrader)
    14. 11:46 AM - gotcha's  (Alan Daniels)
    15. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: Stall speed noise  (Michel Verheughe)
    16. 06:11 PM - Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?  (Kevin Ridsdale)
    17. 06:39 PM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?  (Don Pearsall)
    18. 06:39 PM - Re: Stall speed noise  (Tom Jones)
    19. 06:43 PM - Re: Floats  (Glenn Horne)
    20. 07:37 PM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?  (dave)
    21. 08:17 PM - smashed fox   (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
    22. 08:24 PM - Re: Floats  (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
 
 
 
________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 02:05:12 AM PST US
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Floats

Glenn,

You can definitely put a model 2 on floats, but to do so one needed to 
add brackets to the lower longerons forward of the current landing gear 
brackets.  I would suggest contacting Kitfox to see if they still sell 
the add on brackets.  That would be easier than trying to make your own.

Here's a picture of Dan Denneys N89DD Model 2  on floats. It shows all 
four brackets that were available, but you really only need two if you 
analyze the picture.

Paul Seehafer
Model IV 912 amphib
Central Wisconsin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Glenn Horne 
  To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:00 PM
  Subject: Kitfox-List: Floats


  Kitfox list,
  I have a model II with tube gear (factory)
   I'm trying to sell it and I need to know if
  floats can be put on it. It only has the two
  attachments points where the gear bolts to.
  Any one have a model II with floats?
  HELP
  Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va
  MODEL II 582


________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 02:50:50 AM PST US
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall speed noise

Thank you guys, it looks like this is not normal, after all.
I don't know if my wings are rib stiched. How can I check? My plane was built between
1991 and 1993 by a excellent builder - it was his second Kitfox - and according
to the specifications of that time. 

The first time I heard that sound was the first time I stalled the plane, nearly
three years ago. I assumed it was "the signal" people were talking about. Now
I understand it needs further investigation. I'll keep you informed, of course.
Thanks for your answers.

Cheers,
Michel
do not archive


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________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 03:11:51 AM PST US
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall speed noise

> From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> The normal indications for stall are shuttering in the
> flight controls or entire plane, a flapping sound from
> the wind seperating

That might be it, Kurt. How do you describe "a flapping sound from the wind separating?"
Here is a description of what I hear:
I once had the tail of my seat belt hanging outside the door (I am rather skinny
and the belt is long). As soon as I started the engine, I could hear the belt
flapping on the fuselage.
Now, what I hear when stalling is about the same noise but only one flap. And I
am not even sure it happens at every stall. I haven't been thinking much about
it before now. 
In fact, as I flew alone last Saturday, I was thinking: Whenever I fly with a friend,
I can explain that an aircraft doesn't fall out of the sky like a brick
if the engine stops or we go in a gentle stall. The intention then was to say:
"Whenever you hear this warning sound, push the stick forward and you'll stay
in control." Then I came to think that I should ask the list what is the physical
cause of the sound.

Cheers,
Michel

PS: I suppose we all experience the same thing but when I ask passengers if he/she
wants to steer the plane, they have usually no problem holding the stick.
It is when I ask them to coordinate a turn with the pedals that things get ugly!
:-) 


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________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 03:48:38 AM PST US
From: "Don Smythe" <dosmythe@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall speed noise


Michel,
    You should easily be able to see the small lump of each rib lace under 
the 2" tapes.  Should be about 3 or so inches apart.

Don Smythe

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 5:50 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall speed noise


> I don't know if my wings are rib stiched. How can I check? My plane was 
> built between 1991 and 1993 by a 


________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 05:35:59 AM PST US
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall speed noise


--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:

> That might be it, Kurt. How do you describe "a
> flapping sound from the wind separating?" Here is a
> description of what I hear:
> I once had the tail of my seat belt hanging outside
> the door (I am rather skinny and the belt is long).
> As soon as I started the engine, I could hear the
> belt flapping on the fuselage.
> Now, what I hear when stalling is about the same
> noise but only one flap. And I am not even sure it
> happens at every stall. I haven't been thinking much
> about it before now. 
> In fact, as I flew alone last Saturday, I was
> thinking: Whenever I fly with a friend, I can
> explain that an aircraft doesn't fall out of the sky
> like a brick if the engine stops or we go in a
> gentle stall. The intention then was to say:
> "Whenever you hear this warning sound, push the
> stick forward and you'll stay in control." Then I
> came to think that I should ask the list what is the
> physical cause of the sound.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michel

Michel,

Mine sounds like a big flag flapping just once in the
wind.  Not a fabric tearing sound, but a "FWOUMP" as
the air reattaches to the wing.  When I hear it, the
plane is in recovery from already stalled.  Too late
to stop the stall, but soon enough to recover in a few
feet.  If I hold it in the stall, the sound happens
each time the plane rocks forward and is flying
again....FWOUMP....FWOUMP....FWOUMP seconds apart.

I am wondering about your turtledeck......  It could
make noise from the air behind the wing (top of
cockpit) where the air over the rest of the wing has
nothing behind it to feel the air.  Make sure your
turtledeck is firmly attached and the window is too. 
It could simply be the air beating the turtledeck,
since the center of the wing should stall first.  That
would be a pre-stall, or partial stall warning and
more normal.  Like I said, the rear window can rumble,
or make some noise as the stall starts in the center.

> PS: I suppose we all experience the same thing but
> when I ask passengers if he/she wants to steer the
> plane, they have usually no problem holding the
> stick. It is when I ask them to coordinate a turn
> with the pedals that things get ugly! :-)

You should try helicopters!  Talk about ugly!  Luckily
you can stop a helo and just get ugly in one place. 
Like first week music lessons...

My first time hovering I was told to stay over a rock.
 Wild ride!  then I was told to stay in this large
field.  Smooth as glass.  Good lesson.  Watch the
world and don't get bogged down in the details.  Big
picture wins.

Kurt S.  S-5  Strato-various (cloud buster)

__________________________________________________


________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 06:04:49 AM PST US
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting


I had to buy a new gascolator for this too.  I could
only get 3 threads turned into mine with the pipe
fitting to hose coupling.  Thought that wasn't enough
for security and to prevenbt leaks.  I cut the threads
a bit deeper to get more turns in.  Instead the
fitting hit the interior of the gascolator and split
it open.

I've been called a plumber, but....

I have been using teflon paste on the outer threads on
my plane's fittings instead of tape.  Tried blue
colored auto store sealant first (ATV?) but had 7
leaks with it on the first try with fuel.  So far this
has worked and no junk in the lines.  But you must be
careful to only paste the last few threads.

A non-plumber's 2 cents worth.

Kurt S.

--- dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:

> Deke , 
> You are right the NPT  thread is tapered and where
> the female thread is in a cast part they are prove
> to cracking from overtightening mostly. If a new
> thread can be welded on -GREAT !!   If not just goop
> it up and hope for the best.
>   
> I am not an advocate of teflon tape for fuel and /or
> hydraulic lines as it will  cause clogging as the
> tape "threads " off in strands sometimes. If you
> careful using it you might be ok but I can cause
> issues.   I find that plumbers putty in sticks works
> well and read th label to ensure it good for gas an
> oils.   Teflon tape Can break down when exposed to
> Gas and oils.
> I have seen too often teflon tape pieces caught in
> gascolators.  
> 
> I know many use it sucessfully without an issue but
> there are issues than can arise and caution is
> warranted.
> 
> Dave

__________________________________________________


________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 07:11:48 AM PST US
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall speed noise

Could one follow each rib cap strip with a shop vacuum to see if there was any
latent separation with out it becoming destructive testing?

John Kerr

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> 

> 
> Hi Michel, 
> 
> I agree with Mike G. You need to do a careful 
> inspection and look for fabric seperating from a rib 
> or tank surface on the top. I expect that this is 
> hard to find since the fabric tension will hold it 
> down until you get enough lift on the spot. 
> 
> Any inspection ideas for this from the list? 
> 
> Michel, is your fabric stitched to the ribs? 
> 
> Do take someone up with you and do the stall as 
> quietly as you can, power wise and headsets off, to 
> find it. Then stop doing stalls! 
> 
> A very famous pilot named Steve Whitman lost his life 
> when his fabric seperated enough to cause flutter in 
> his wing. You don't want it to come loose! 
> 
> Than again, sound testing in flight, you may find that 
> it is not in the wing and something else is bothering 
> you for attention. The baggage sack or other velcroed 
> part? 
> 
> The normal indications for stall are shuttering in the 
> flight controls or entire plane, a flapping sound from 
> the wind seperating, control response way down (except 
> in a Fox) the rear window shuttering, that sudden 
> feeling that the bottom is just about to drop out..... 
> probably some others I am forgetting. But there 
> should be no tearing sound. 
> 
> Our planes will tell us when they are hurting. We 
> just need to learn to listen and know what they are 
> saying. 
> 
> Kurt S. S-5 
> 
> --- Michael Gibbs wrote: 
> 
> > Michel sez: 
> > 
> > >...if any of you know the reason why I can hear a 
> > distinct sound 
> > >that reminds of fabric tearing as my model 3 
> > stalls, I'd appreciate 
> > >it. 
> > 
> > I'm sorry Michel, I thought you were kidding around. 
> > I never heard 
> > such a sound in my Model IV and I stalled and spun 
> > it many times. I 
> > think you are probably right, a careful inspection 
> > of the fabric on 
> > the wings is in order. I wouldn't limit the 
> > inspection to the fuel 
> > tanks, though, check the entire upper and lower 
> > surfaces to be safe. 
> > 
> > Mike G. 
> > N728KF 
> 
> __________________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
<html><body>
<DIV>Could one follow each rib cap strip with a shop vacuum to see if there was
any latent separation with out it becoming destructive testing?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: kurt schrader
&lt;smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; --&gt; Kitfox-List message
posted by: kurt schrader <SMOKEY_BEAR_40220@YAHOO.COM><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hi Michel,
<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I agree with Mike G. You need to do a careful <BR>&gt;
inspection and look for fabric seperating from a rib <BR>&gt; or tank surface
on the top. I expect that this is <BR>&gt; hard to find since the fabric tension
will hold it <BR>&gt; down until you get enough lift on the spot. <BR>&gt;
<BR>&gt; Any inspection ideas for this from the list? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Michel,
is your fabric stitched to the ribs? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Do take someone up with
you and do the stall as <BR>&gt; quietly as you can, power wise and headsets
off, to <BR>&gt; find it. Then stop doing stalls! <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A very famous
pilot named Steve Whitman lost his life <BR>&gt
 ; when
 his fabric seperated enough to cause flutter in <BR>&gt; his wing. You don't want
it to come loose! <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Than again, sound testing in flight, you
may find that <BR>&gt; it is not in the wing and something else is bothering
<BR>&gt; you for attention. The baggage sack or other velcroed <BR>&gt; part?
<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The normal indications for stall are shuttering in the <BR>&gt;
flight controls or entire plane, a flapping sound from <BR>&gt; the wind
seperating, control response way down (except <BR>&gt; in a Fox) the rear window
shuttering, that sudden <BR>&gt; feeling that the bottom is just about to
drop out..... <BR>&gt; probably some others I am forgetting. But there <BR>&gt;
should be no tearing sound. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Our planes will tell us when they
are hurting. We <BR>&gt; just need to learn to listen and know what they are
<BR>&gt; saying. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Kurt S. S-5 <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --- Michael
Gibbs <MICHAELGIBBS@COX.NET>wrote: <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt
 ; &gt;
 Your L
 <BR>&g

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________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 07:38:41 AM PST US
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting


Kurt,  why have you NOT been using  teflon tape ?


Dave


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting


> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> I had to buy a new gascolator for this too.  I could
> only get 3 threads turned into mine with the pipe
> fitting to hose coupling.  Thought that wasn't enough
> for security and to prevenbt leaks.  I cut the threads
> a bit deeper to get more turns in.  Instead the
> fitting hit the interior of the gascolator and split
> it open.
>
> I've been called a plumber, but....
>
> I have been using teflon paste on the outer threads on
> my plane's fittings instead of tape.  Tried blue
> colored auto store sealant first (ATV?) but had 7
> leaks with it on the first try with fuel.  So far this
> has worked and no junk in the lines.  But you must be
> careful to only paste the last few threads.
>
> A non-plumber's 2 cents worth.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>
>> Deke ,
>> You are right the NPT  thread is tapered and where
>> the female thread is in a cast part they are prove
>> to cracking from overtightening mostly. If a new
>> thread can be welded on -GREAT !!   If not just goop
>> it up and hope for the best.
>>
>> I am not an advocate of teflon tape for fuel and /or
>> hydraulic lines as it will  cause clogging as the
>> tape "threads " off in strands sometimes. If you
>> careful using it you might be ok but I can cause
>> issues.   I find that plumbers putty in sticks works
>> well and read th label to ensure it good for gas an
>> oils.   Teflon tape Can break down when exposed to
>> Gas and oils.
>> I have seen too often teflon tape pieces caught in
>> gascolators.
>>
>> I know many use it sucessfully without an issue but
>> there are issues than can arise and caution is
>> warranted.
>>
>> Dave
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 07:47:54 AM PST US
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Floats

Paul , 

 I looked at Glenn's picture of his KF 2 on  Barnstormers and you can 
see the rear float attach fitting as it part of the  lower wing strut 
attach fitting that  is welded to the longeron.    I agree that John Mc 
Bean would have the front brackets as well.   Just cut the fabric and 
weld them on.   Patch up fabric.  I would ask John about the cross over 
tube on the model 2 at read leg attach to see is there was ever a 
upgrade or stiffner for that area as the KF 2 had a lower gross weight. 


Dave


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Seehafer 
  To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:23 PM
  Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Floats


  Glenn,

  You can definitely put a model 2 on floats, but to do so one needed to 
add brackets to the lower longerons forward of the current landing gear 
brackets.  I would suggest contacting Kitfox to see if they still sell 
the add on brackets.  That would be easier than trying to make your own.

  Here's a picture of Dan Denneys N89DD Model 2  on floats. It shows all 
four brackets that were available, but you really only need two if you 
analyze the picture.

  Paul Seehafer
  Model IV 912 amphib
  Central Wisconsin
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Glenn Horne 
    To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
    Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:00 PM
    Subject: Kitfox-List: Floats


    Kitfox list,
    I have a model II with tube gear (factory)
     I'm trying to sell it and I need to know if
    floats can be put on it. It only has the two
    attachments points where the gear bolts to.
    Any one have a model II with floats?
    HELP
    Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va
    MODEL II 582


href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron


________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 07:55:12 AM PST US
From: PWilson <pwmac@sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting


Loctite sells a thread sealer for fuels. Not the usual stuff. A quick 
call to Permatex engineering will give you the part number. Get 
the  phone number off any tube of Loctite. This stuff IMO probably 
works better than teflon tape or teflon paste. Having said that I 
still use both for my plumbing projects. The imported (China) steel 
pipe fittings are so roughly machined that the paste is the only 
thing that works. Such it is when living in Mexico = low quality fittings.
I am not an advocate of gascolators especially if you have the behind 
the seat Header tanks as it has a very large sump with a quick drain 
to accomplish the same function as a gascolator, but has to be used 
with a filter between the header and the engine.

We sure got a good input on the cracked housing where the sensor screwed in.
Regards, Paul
====================

At 06:04 AM 12/19/2006, you wrote:
>
>I had to buy a new gascolator for this too.  I could
>only get 3 threads turned into mine with the pipe
>fitting to hose coupling.  Thought that wasn't enough
>for security and to prevenbt leaks.  I cut the threads
>a bit deeper to get more turns in.  Instead the
>fitting hit the interior of the gascolator and split
>it open.
>
>I've been called a plumber, but....
>
>I have been using teflon paste on the outer threads on
>my plane's fittings instead of tape.  Tried blue
>colored auto store sealant first (ATV?) but had 7
>leaks with it on the first try with fuel.  So far this
>has worked and no junk in the lines.  But you must be
>careful to only paste the last few threads.
>
>A non-plumber's 2 cents worth.
>
>Kurt S.
>
>--- dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
>
> > Deke ,
> > You are right the NPT  thread is tapered and where
> > the female thread is in a cast part they are prove
> > to cracking from overtightening mostly. If a new
> > thread can be welded on -GREAT !!   If not just goop
> > it up and hope for the best.
> >
> > I am not an advocate of teflon tape for fuel and /or
> > hydraulic lines as it will  cause clogging as the
> > tape "threads " off in strands sometimes. If you
> > careful using it you might be ok but I can cause
> > issues.   I find that plumbers putty in sticks works
> > well and read th label to ensure it good for gas an
> > oils.   Teflon tape Can break down when exposed to
> > Gas and oils.
> > I have seen too often teflon tape pieces caught in
> > gascolators.
> >
> > I know many use it sucessfully without an issue but
> > there are issues than can arise and caution is
> > warranted.
> >
> > Dave


________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 07:56:38 AM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Floats

Hey Paul, do you have the article that goes with that cover? If so could you scan
it and send me a copy?
   
  Thanks.


Paul Seehafer <av8rps@tznet.com> wrote:
          Glenn,
   
  You can definitely put a model 2 on floats, but to do so one needed to add brackets
to the lower longerons forward of the current landing gear brackets.  I
would suggest contacting Kitfox to see if they still sell the add on brackets.
That would be easier than trying to make your own.
   
  Here's a picture of Dan Denneys N89DD Model 2  on floats. It shows all four brackets
that were available, but you really only need two if you analyze the picture.
   
  Paul Seehafer
  Model IV 912 amphib
  Central Wisconsin
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Glenn Horne 
  To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:00 PM
  Subject: Kitfox-List: Floats


  Kitfox list,
  I have a model II with tube gear (factory)
   I'm trying to sell it and I need to know if
  floats can be put on it. It only has the two
  attachments points where the gear bolts to.
  Any one have a model II with floats?
  HELP
  Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va
  MODEL II 582

    href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com  href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com  href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com  href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron  


Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
 __________________________________________________

________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 09:06:45 AM PST US
From: "David Steade" <david.steade@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight G-CDXY

John

No, its about 18 inches longer and 3 inches wider.

Regards

David Steade

________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 11:15:34 AM PST US
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trim Mount Bolt - Rudder Cable Interference


There actually are a lot of those little got-shus on
the KitFox.  The plans catch most, but not all and you
can miss one and just put a bolt in backwards and have
a problem.  It could take years to show up or show up
quickly.

The flight control linkage under the seat is an
example.  Bolts are supposed to be installed pointing
down in case the nut falls off.  But there is one that
will hit the structure if not installed pointing up. 
In fact, it has to have a thin head to clear.

Another is in the elevator push tube in back of the
seat.  Needs to be installed so it doesn't hit an
upright tube.

I was once, and only once, yelled at for writing up a
bolt installed backwards on a DC-8 nose gear link. 
Delayed the flight and cost over $100,000.  The plane
had flown that way before, so I was wrong.... until
the maintenance manager returned with the pages that
described that it would break off the "down and
locked" switch, if it was in backwards.  Just hadn't
broken the switch before I caught it.

I put pipe clamp bands on 4 of my engine hoses to keep
them from wearing against other parts.  Just things
you have to look for and "what if" as you build.

So you are not alone and it is not just our Fox's.

Kurt S.

--- Tinne maha <tinnemaha@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Lowell,
> ......................
> I don't know whether to rate this as a major or
> minor concern.  At first I 
> thought it was major & I guess it still could be. 
> However, as I haven't 
> found any evidence of there being a previous
> discussion on the topic, I 
> would deduce most kitfoxes are flying this way (&
> have been for years), so 
> it obviously isn't a problem.  Did you deal with
> this on your airplane?
> 
> Grant

__________________________________________________


________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 11:46:25 AM PST US
From: Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtcblue.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: gotcha's


One gotcha that I have mentioned before is that on the 5,6,7 if you put 
a wrong size item in the small pockets to the side of the cargo sack it 
can jam the controls. My wife put her camera in there and the controls 
locked up on me as I was checking them as I pulled onto the runway. 
Don't believe me, put a 6 inch or so piece of 2x4 in there and try it. 
It won't happen on all planes or every time, but it happened to me.

kurt schrader wrote:
>
> There actually are a lot of those little got-shus on
> the KitFox.  The plans catch most, but not all and you
> can miss one and just put a bolt in backwards and have
> a problem.  It could take years to show up or show up
> quickly.
>   
>   


________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 01:51:59 PM PST US
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall speed noise


Thanks again everyone and from the photos Lynn has sent me privately, I 
can definitively say that my wings are not rib laced. I don't know how 
they are made, though, because there is an inspection hole in the wing 
but it has never been cut out of the fabric, so I can't look inside. 
But ... since my wings are of the old Avid type and undercambered,  
there must be something holding the fabric in upward, isn't it? Yet I 
can't see any stitch as in the wings of Lynn.

Anyway, I always do a very thorough pre-flight, inspecting carefully my 
wings and polish them carefully about twice a year. If anything was 
loose, I would have seen it.

The thing is, I assumed the "stall noise" was normal, so I never gave 
it much attention. But I will, next time I fly. Maybe it's the turtle 
deck, as Kurt says. The strange things is, if it was the stall itself, 
I should hear it also when I land, wouldn't I? But, as far as I 
remember, that has never happened. Weird! But I'll keep an eye on it 
and let you informed. Thanks again, everyone.

Cheers,
Michel

do not archive


________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 06:11:19 PM PST US
From: Kevin Ridsdale <ksridsdale@mipowerparachute.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?


21"x12"x8" NEW Treadless tires for Kitfox Aircraft

THIS $2.50/TIRE CHRISTMAS SALE ENDS DECEMBER 31/06 AT
MIDNIGHT OR WHEN OUR LIMITED STOCK IS SOLD OUT

CONTINENTIAL USA shipping cost is $25.00/2 tires
(Delivery time up to 4 days).

ALASKA & THE EUROPEAN UNION (EU) shipping cost is 
$66.00/2 tires (Delivery time 4-6 weeks).

CANADA shipping cost is $46.00/2 tires (Delivery time
3-4 weeks).

Call between 5:00 PM - 9:30 PM EST or email MiPPi
Ultralights today 734-377-2670. No restriction on
quantities ordered.


________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 06:39:27 PM PST US
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?


Hold on, no one send any money to this person just yet. It is probably spam.
We are looking into it now and will let you know.

Don Pearsall, List Admin


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Ridsdale
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?

<ksridsdale@mipowerparachute.com>

21"x12"x8" NEW Treadless tires for Kitfox Aircraft

THIS $2.50/TIRE CHRISTMAS SALE ENDS DECEMBER 31/06 AT
MIDNIGHT OR WHEN OUR LIMITED STOCK IS SOLD OUT

CONTINENTIAL USA shipping cost is $25.00/2 tires
(Delivery time up to 4 days).

ALASKA & THE EUROPEAN UNION (EU) shipping cost is 
$66.00/2 tires (Delivery time 4-6 weeks).

CANADA shipping cost is $46.00/2 tires (Delivery time
3-4 weeks).

Call between 5:00 PM - 9:30 PM EST or email MiPPi
Ultralights today 734-377-2670. No restriction on
quantities ordered.


________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 06:39:27 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Stall speed noise
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>


Michel,
If the wings were built according to the Skystar manual the fabric is attached
to the wing ribs with Poly Tack (glue).  The vacume on the top of the wing is
strongest when lift is being generated.  At a stall I would think the pull (vacume)
on the fabric on the wing top would be minimal.

Those undercambered wings have quite a curve on the bottom rib cap strips.  In
my opinion the bottom of the wing would be more likely to be the place fabric
might generate a sound during stall.

Don't focus entirely on looking at the fabric on the top rib cap strips.  Be sure
to check the bottoms too.

For what it is worth.  I once removed the fabric from one of my wings.  I found
it was very securely attached to the ribs with poly tack.  I had to pull really
hard to peel it off.

Also, I heard that seat belt slapping sound when I started the stinson the other
day.  Yes, I'm skinny too and the tail end of the seat belt was hanging outside
the door.  I think for loose fabric to make that sound it would have to be
very loose.

Tom Jones, Classic 4, Ellensburg, WA


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82560#82560


________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 06:43:51 PM PST US
From: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Floats

THANKS PAUL>
GLENN
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Seehafer 
  To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:23 PM
  Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Floats


  Glenn,

  You can definitely put a model 2 on floats, but to do so one needed to 
add brackets to the lower longerons forward of the current landing gear 
brackets.  I would suggest contacting Kitfox to see if they still sell 
the add on brackets.  That would be easier than trying to make your own.

  Here's a picture of Dan Denneys N89DD Model 2  on floats. It shows all 
four brackets that were available, but you really only need two if you 
analyze the picture.

  Paul Seehafer
  Model IV 912 amphib
  Central Wisconsin
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Glenn Horne 
    To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
    Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:00 PM
    Subject: Kitfox-List: Floats


    Kitfox list,
    I have a model II with tube gear (factory)
     I'm trying to sell it and I need to know if
    floats can be put on it. It only has the two
    attachments points where the gear bolts to.
    Any one have a model II with floats?
    HELP
    Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va
    MODEL II 582


href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron


________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 07:37:45 PM PST US
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?


Don,

I know several guys thats have bought Tires from MIPPI  Ultralights in MI 
and I think they are legit.
He could say tires are free and cover his costs with shipping -- just like 
the ebay'ers  do.

Caution perhaps but I think this guy is Legit.


Dave


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:38 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?


> <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Hold on, no one send any money to this person just yet. It is probably 
> spam.
> We are looking into it now and will let you know.
>
> Don Pearsall, List Admin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin 
> Ridsdale
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 6:11 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?
>
> <ksridsdale@mipowerparachute.com>
>
> 21"x12"x8" NEW Treadless tires for Kitfox Aircraft
>
> THIS $2.50/TIRE CHRISTMAS SALE ENDS DECEMBER 31/06 AT
> MIDNIGHT OR WHEN OUR LIMITED STOCK IS SOLD OUT
>
> CONTINENTIAL USA shipping cost is $25.00/2 tires
> (Delivery time up to 4 days).
>
> ALASKA & THE EUROPEAN UNION (EU) shipping cost is
> $66.00/2 tires (Delivery time 4-6 weeks).
>
> CANADA shipping cost is $46.00/2 tires (Delivery time
> 3-4 weeks).
>
> Call between 5:00 PM - 9:30 PM EST or email MiPPi
> Ultralights today 734-377-2670. No restriction on
> quantities ordered.
>
>
> 


________________________________  Message 21  ____________________________________


Time: 08:17:12 PM PST US
From: Malcolmbru@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: smashed fox 

I saw a mod 3 today, the guy was hauling it backwards on a trailer  and the 
bolt  that holds the wing against the fuselage came out  the wing slammed 
forward (back) then he hit a concrete  overpass pillar it  totaled the wing the

cross overs in the cockpit windshield  and both  doors.  He also showed me a 
model 2 he landed in the  trees a couple of years ago  it also needs alot of work

mal  

________________________________  Message 22  ____________________________________


Time: 08:24:51 PM PST US
From: Malcolmbru@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Floats

Did this start by stating you have a fox for sale? How mush do you  want for 
it?  how long have you had it? Where is it at? have you tried  barnstormers?  
Do you have PICS or a video?  I know a guy  that mite want to trade you two 
for one.     mal

 

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