Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:36 AM - Brake Pedal Template (rudderdancer)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: Ski installation (john perry)
3. 06:31 AM - Re: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting (Noel Loveys)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (dave)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (Sjklerks@aol.com)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (Rexinator)
7. 08:47 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (Sjklerks@aol.com)
8. 08:48 AM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (kurt schrader)
9. 08:49 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (dave)
10. 09:07 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (Sjklerks@aol.com)
11. 09:12 AM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (john perry)
12. 09:33 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
13. 09:41 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (flier)
14. 09:50 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (Sjklerks@aol.com)
15. 10:35 AM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (dave)
16. 10:51 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (dave)
17. 11:27 AM - Re: KITFOX flight PUGET Sound area (parahawk)
18. 12:35 PM - Re: Ski installation (Michel Verheughe)
19. 01:14 PM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (Michel Verheughe)
20. 01:37 PM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (akflyer)
21. 01:41 PM - Re: KITFOX flight PUGET Sound area (akflyer)
22. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (Michel Verheughe)
23. 04:23 PM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (Kevin Ridsdale)
24. 04:23 PM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (Dee Young)
25. 04:25 PM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (akflyer)
26. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (Don Smythe)
27. 04:52 PM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (Don Smythe)
28. 05:05 PM - P-51 Crash (Dee Young)
29. 05:05 PM - P-51 wreck (Alan Daniels)
30. 05:51 PM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (akflyer)
31. 06:56 PM - Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds (ron schick)
32. 07:48 PM - Re: Older Kitfox setting RPM (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
33. 08:41 PM - Re: Older Kitfox setting RPM (ron schick)
34. 10:43 PM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (Jim Crowder)
35. 10:46 PM - Re: Older Kitfox setting RPM (Aerobatics@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Brake Pedal Template |
Merry Christmas,
I was looking at another site that had lots of modification pictures among other
things and saw some neat looking rudder pedals. Does anyone have a template
for them that they could share?
On my first crow-hop in my new to me model II, I did a nice little groundloop when
I touched down with the brakes on. Luckily I was not going very fast when
it looped and no damage ensued.
The pedals I'm referring to look like conventional rudder pedals in that they are
a rectangular sheet with folded sides on which one side connects to the brake
rod.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82810#82810
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ski installation |
Michel and list
I sent Michel a copy of ac43.13-2a chapter 5 ski installation.
This is what is to be followed in any ski installation in a certified
aircraft but should slso be followed in experimental in my humble opinion .
Page 38 of chapter 5 says for a skis rating of 1500-3000 lbs you should have
a downword force of 20-40 lbs applied at the fore end of ski to start to
slacken the aft safety cable . This is approximate . In my opinion again I
use about 35-40 lbs of force applied and find that in landing it helps to
smooth out the bumps and act as a bumper but does not throw me back into the
air either .
Take care fly safe fly slow fly snow
John Perry
Message 3
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| Subject: | 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting |
When I ran a photo production lab I had to deal with many different pumps.
Most of them had screw in pipe fittings. I started off using T-tape (never
on the first few threads) more often than not there was no problem. With
one pump the manufacturer stated in the install manual not under any
circumstances to use T-tape. Only to coat the a few of the threads with a
light coat of a special heat and chemical resistant RTV. Again making sure
that nothing touched the first few threads.
My bosses father was a retired pipe fitter. He insisted I use T-tape. I
called the pump manufacturer and they told me if T-tape was used, the pump
housing would crack within ten hours. I told the bosses father this and
cannot mention his reply without completely fracturing our PG rules. I went
ahead and used the sealant recommended with no problems for many hours.
Just before I left that lab the boss picked up another processor with the
same pumps in it. A fellow who was hired to replace me (Another story), was
told to install it. The bosses father was to assist him. Everything was
installed with T-tape. Even though I was told my assistance and opinions
were un-welcome I suggested they fill the machine with water and run it for
a day or so while checking for leaks, adjusting belt tensions, calibrating
temperatures etc..... I got told....Again... My last words as I left work
that night was they were to remember I had nothing to do with the
installation and it wasn't responsible!
The next morning I walked into the lab, in the basement of the building, to
find it ankle deep in very caustic chemicals. The only fittings that didn't
fail were on the wash tanks (no pumps) I calculate the use of T-tape cost
the company about $5000.00 in lost chemicals. It would have been a factor
of ten if any one had let the spill out of the bag.
The moral of the story... Yes Virginia there is a moral, it is to do what
the OEM says. I believe in this case that means the use of a special
sealant.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> john perry
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:09 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Oil Leak - cracked fitting
>
>
>
> read service letter #45 reiterates what Kurt is aying DO
> NOT USE TEFLON
> TAPE.
> http://www.sportplanellc.com/support/service_letters/sl45.htm
>
> look under fuel line fab #4
>
>
> John Perry
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
What are you talking about ?
Mine are rigged properly- are you disputing that they are not ?
I answered a question for Tom Jones that asked why there was no bungee on
the aft end of the ski.
I put up a video and it flys and works fine. If you need pics I can post
them as well.
Perhaps you could post a video and pics if you are disputing this.
Thanks
Dave
PS Here links to the factual SKi video http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
and the factual info on NGK plugs http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/ that
was backed up by Bob Robertson the Rotax guru.
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>
> UHHHHH Dave
> when sitting flat on ground with taildragger your skis should be straight
> out level in front of you on the ground. Look at the pic that is how the
> ski is flying . You then install your front safety cables to linit them to
> this spot . now you lift the tail and to until the plane is in level
> flight mode . and then add 2-3 inches up on tail . now place your rear
> limit safety cables . now put your bungees on and make shure they are
> strong enough to pull the skis up in the front in flight . I have done
> MANNNNNNNY instals on aircraft . If you read my last post slowly you will
> see this is what is said in much shorter post .
>
> Fly safe fly low fly slow
> OHH yeah MERRY CHRISTMAS almost
> John Perry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 7:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>
>
>>
>> John ,
>>
>> When on the ground , my bungees are stretched.
>> When in the air the bugee pulls the ski until the safety cable on rear
>> become tight unless of course the front is too long which makes it loose
>> and the ariflow pushes the tip down.
>> You can see mine here in the video from 10 days ago
>> http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
>> And my rear safety cable could afford to be about 1 inch longer.
>>
>> If you need some pics, just let me know and I will post them.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 7:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>>
>>
>>>
>>> NO they are not to long when you are on the ground they have to be in
>>> that angle . Supposed to have a strong enough bungy on the front to pull
>>> them up when in flight .
>>>
>>> John Perry
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Those pics just show that they wer rigged with too long of cable on
>>>> front and the airflow is pushing them down.
>>>> Not a good thing at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:29 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Disregard my last post.... The picture looked like something
>>>>> manipulated.
>>>>> The bungees on the tips of the skis seemed stretched which made me
>>>>> think the
>>>>> picture was actually taken on the ground. Note the alignment of the
>>>>> ski
>>>>> with the tail wheel.
>>>>>
>>>>> My best guess now is they rigged the skis with the tail down on the
>>>>> hangar
>>>>> floor....
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW I have a set of those composite skis. The previous owner of my
>>>>> plane
>>>>> even made a set or removable rear tips so the plane can easily be
>>>>> towed
>>>>> backwards by a ski-doo. I was warned to always remove the rear tips
>>>>> before
>>>>> flight.
>>>>>
>>>>> Noel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>>>>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Paul Seehafer
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 3:29 PM
>>>>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Noel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it was the snow acting as the worlds best flash reflector...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> do not archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>>>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:38 AM
>>>>>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I have a couple of questions... The answer to one depends
>>>>>> on the other.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Where did they ever get a flash strong enough to light the
>>>>>> plane from the
>>>>>> > bottom .....or was he flying inverted, possibly vertical ???
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Noel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
It,s a great deal I just went to MIPPI and picked up 7 pair for 35.00. Guys
don't miss out on this. Jim
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
Precisely what size, style and brand tires are they selling?
Thanks,
Rex
Colorado
Sjklerks@aol.com wrote:
> It,s a great deal I just went to MIPPI and picked up 7 pair for 35.00.
> Guys don't miss out on this. Jim
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
Hi Rex, 21x12x8 and they are new tires with no tread, very nice tire Go to
the e-bay site and punch in Kitfox for a picture. Jim
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Shouldnt the cables have enough slack to allow for
going over slight hills, or will the skis flex enough
for that without over-stressing? After all, these are
often used off airport.
Kurt S.
--- john perry <eskflyer@lvcisp.com> wrote:
> UHHHHH Dave
> when sitting flat on ground with taildragger your
> skis should be straight
> out level in front of you on the ground. Look at the
> pic that is how the ski
> is flying . You then install your front safety
> cables to linit them to this ............
> spot .
__________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
Hey Jim , Let me know when you get mine and I fly over to see you and
pick em up .
Hell of a deal ......... i know another guy here that paid 140 $ CDN
shipped here in Ontario.
Thanks again
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Sjklerks@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?
It,s a great deal I just went to MIPPI and picked up 7 pair for 35.00.
Guys don't miss out on this. Jim
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
Dave, Your tires are here in the garage, fly in anytime, give me heads up
though so I can meet you there?. If you want I can bring them the next time we
meet up at reeses for breakfast. Your Choice? Jim
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Dave did I say yours are rigged wrong if your asking this ? then i guess
the answer must be yes in your mind . As for you plugging in your video clip
all the time its getting tiresome ,yes its great you can do videos and i
enjoy watching them usually once is enough. Now if youll read your own post
you that you sent you wrote my NAME at the top of your post so I really
dont think you know who you were posting to . IF YOU WILL READ MY POST AND
LOOK AT THE PIC you will see what I am talking about .Now enough on the
skis
The SPARK PLUG
I have talked with NGK corporate and the head of the technical department
several times now on this matter .
The NGK plug that rotax buys from them is the B8ES Stock # 3683, BR8ES Stock
#3961 theya re snet to rotax in nice yellow and white boxes with a X thru a
ultralight and a airplane . Rotax takes these out and sned them back out in
nice foam packaging to take the liability off of NGK . IF YOU WILL READ MY
PREVIOUS POSTS you will see I said use the solid cap plugs and gave the
correct stock number from NGK . If you cant read then thats your problem .
Im tired of arguing with someone who has not talked with NGK and found out
the Correct information themselves and are so self- righteous that they are
right because of second hand info from a authorized ROTAX sealer and repair
station . OF course they want you to buy from them thats how they make a
buck geeesh. .
Now Dave I do not have a problem with you its just that in my humble
opinion you do not have all your marbles in one place .
Read and listen to the post and go on to the net and ask questions of the
right people.
Take care fly safe fly low fly snow
MERRY CHRISTMAS
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:44
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>
> What are you talking about ?
>
> Mine are rigged properly- are you disputing that they are not ?
>
> I answered a question for Tom Jones that asked why there was no bungee on
> the aft end of the ski.
>
> I put up a video and it flys and works fine. If you need pics I can post
> them as well.
> Perhaps you could post a video and pics if you are disputing this.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave
>
> PS Here links to the factual SKi video http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
> and the factual info on NGK plugs http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/
> that was backed up by Bob Robertson the Rotax guru.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
I appologize for missing the intitial part of the thread, but could someone repeat
the tire information, please. I hope to not incurr anyones wrath.
Perhaps it is the tension of the season making some of us react a little strongly.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Sjklerks@aol.com
Dave, Your tires are here in the garage, fly in anytime, give me heads up though
so I can meet you there?. If you want I can bring them the next time we meet
up at reeses for breakfast. Your Choice? Jim
<html><body>
<DIV>I appologize for missing the intitial part of the thread, but could someone
repeat the tire information, please. I hope to not incurr anyones wrath.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps it is the tension of the season making some of us react a little strongly.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Sjklerks@aol.com
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR><FONT id=role_document face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>Dave, Your tires are here in the garage, fly in anytime, give me heads up
though so I can meet you there?. If you want I can bring them the next time we
meet up at reeses for breakfast. Your Choice? Jim</DIV></FONT><PRE><B><FONT
face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
Hey Jim,
It's $25 shipping for each pair, $30 total a pair,
right? Not $25 shipping for any number.
--- Original Message ---
From: Sjklerks@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?
>It,s a great deal I just went to MIPPI and picked up
7 pair for 35.00. Guys
>don't miss out on this. Jim
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
I have no Idea how much the shipping is? I live 30 miles from Livonia, so I
just drove there in my car. Just call or email Kevin at MIPPI and I'm sure he
would know. Kevin's number is1-734-377-2670 Jim
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Hey no problem.
you can be the man today
Seasonal greetings to all.
Dave
PS and i will include links to help others. Glad you enjoyed the videos !!
:)
Here links to the factual SKi video http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
and the factual info on NGK plugs http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/
that was backed up by Bob Robertson the Rotax guru.
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>
> Dave did I say yours are rigged wrong if your asking this ? then i guess
> the answer must be yes in your mind . As for you plugging in your video
> clip all the time its getting tiresome ,yes its great you can do videos
> and i enjoy watching them usually once is enough. Now if youll read your
> own post you that you sent you wrote my NAME at the top of your post so I
> really dont think you know who you were posting to . IF YOU WILL READ MY
> POST AND LOOK AT THE PIC you will see what I am talking about .Now
> enough on the skis
> The SPARK PLUG
> I have talked with NGK corporate and the head of the technical department
> several times now on this matter .
> The NGK plug that rotax buys from them is the B8ES Stock # 3683, BR8ES
> Stock #3961 theya re snet to rotax in nice yellow and white boxes with a X
> thru a ultralight and a airplane . Rotax takes these out and sned them
> back out in nice foam packaging to take the liability off of NGK . IF YOU
> WILL READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS you will see I said use the solid cap plugs
> and gave the correct stock number from NGK . If you cant read then thats
> your problem . Im tired of arguing with someone who has not talked with
> NGK and found out the Correct information themselves and are so self-
> righteous that they are right because of second hand info from a
> authorized ROTAX sealer and repair station . OF course they want you to
> buy from them thats how they make a buck geeesh. .
> Now Dave I do not have a problem with you its just that in my humble
> opinion you do not have all your marbles in one place .
> Read and listen to the post and go on to the net and ask questions of the
> right people.
>
> Take care fly safe fly low fly snow
> MERRY CHRISTMAS
>
> John Perry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:44
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>
>
>>
>> What are you talking about ?
>>
>> Mine are rigged properly- are you disputing that they are not ?
>>
>> I answered a question for Tom Jones that asked why there was no bungee on
>> the aft end of the ski.
>>
>> I put up a video and it flys and works fine. If you need pics I can post
>> them as well.
>> Perhaps you could post a video and pics if you are disputing this.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> PS Here links to the factual SKi video http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/
>> and the factual info on NGK plugs http://www.cfisher.com/ngk/
>> that was backed up by Bob Robertson the Rotax guru.
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
Jim, thanks and surely a breakfast in order soon . Maybe we can round up
a few guys from SW ontario to Meet for Breakfast over X mas ?
I think this might be the site for the TIre guy
http://mipowerparachute.com/Tires.html
BTW does anyone know if You can buy new alum wheels from McBean with the
lugs welded on for the rotors ?
And it so - how much ? I think I would rather just buy new wheels and
mount these tires on them rather than fighing the golf carts tires off
the rims that I am using now..
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Sjklerks@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?
Dave, Your tires are here in the garage, fly in anytime, give me heads
up though so I can meet you there?. If you want I can bring them the
next time we meet up at reeses for breakfast. Your Choice? Jim
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: KITFOX flight PUGET Sound area |
I have a Kitfox IV-1200 and live about 1 1/2 hours south of Seattle. Unfortunately
I am a student pilot and can't fly with you but I could ask my instructor
if he would give you a ride.
You can contact me also per e-mail: alfi98596@yahoo.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82893#82893
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Ski installation |
On Dec 21, 2006, at 2:43 PM, john perry wrote:
> I sent Michel a copy of ac43.13-2a chapter 5 ski installation.
Thank you, John. My skis are copies of the Avid Flyer wheel penetration
skis and I rigged them in accordance to the documentation I got at the
time. I have, in the front and as instructed, two separate bungees and
an extra safety wire.
But, as I was installing these, I was told of something that happened
at my airfield before I started flying. An ultralight aircraft with
homemade skis was about to land when someone on the ground noticed that
one ski was pointing downward. He called the pilot from a handheld VHF
radio and told him about the situation. The pilot tried to no avail to
stall the aircraft and shake it in the hope of getting the ski up
again. After a while, and running short of fuel, he did an emergency
landing off the runway, in a place with deep snow. The plane tipped
around but the pilot could walk away without a scratch. He had only one
bungee and, of course, no extra safety wire to that ski.
That's when I started wondering how a ski can tilt downward in flight.
My opinion is that the shape of the ski tip would create an
aero-dynamic pressure upward and landing with a ski pointing upward is
certainly not the same hazard as when pointing down.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
On Dec 20, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Paul Seehafer wrote:
> Sure, the newer Kitfox (Riblett) airfoil helps to make the newer
> Kitfoxes cruise faster, but even if you were to put a new Riblett wing
> on an older Kitfox, my guess is you wouldn't see a lot of cruise speed
> increase, because there is just too much positive wing incidence
> causing a lot of drag.
Hello Paul,
Since I read your email, yesterday, I have been thinking about this and
I just can't figure out how it works. From the X-Plane flight
simulator, I am used to make digital models. I don't know how it is
done in real life but I guess it is done in relation to a reference
line. Let's say, a line going from the prop hub to the end of the
fuselage. From that, various airfoils can be built, each with a
different angle of attack. I think angle of attack (AoA) is usually
used as the angle to that reference line, where angle of incidence is
the actual angle made by the apparent wind and the airfoil.
If we look at the AoA, we see that, as it increases, the coefficient of
lift and the coefficient of drag increase too. As speed increases and
lift increases to the square of the speed, one has to push the stick to
keep the plane at level flight.
Now, if the actual attachment of the wings' root to the fuselage is
different from one model to another, it means that, for the same speed,
one plane will fly with a slightly greater nose-down attitude. But how
does that influences the maximum speed you can achieve for a given
engine horse power? My understanding is that an airfoil has a constant
lift/drag ration for a given AoA. Did I miss something?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
If the tail has to come up higher in flight to get the wing level, then you have
more drag. THe fuse is not "straight" in the airflow, the horizontal stab is
a big brake back there, the struts are now at a nose down attidute which means
they are not straight with the relative wind etc.. It all adds up to a slower
plane.
--------
Leni
Avid C W/582
1260 full lotus
.......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82915#82915
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: KITFOX flight PUGET Sound area |
Very nice offer!! Glad to see someone in the Christmas spirit willing to help
out another with a VERY generous offer. Most would not think of having someone
else in their plane without them being in it!
You just got the goodguy of the day award.
Please send the 59.95 for shipping and handling to....
(this is to help me re-coupe the costs for my reward lol)
--------
Leni
Avid C W/582
1260 full lotus
.......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82920#82920
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
On Dec 21, 2006, at 10:36 PM, akflyer wrote:
> If the tail has to come up higher in flight to get the wing level,
> then you have more drag. THe fuse is not "straight" in the airflow,
> the horizontal stab is a big brake back there, the struts are now at a
> nose down attidute which means they are not straight with the relative
> wind etc.. It all adds up to a slower plane.
Thank you for your answer, Leni. What you are saying, basically, is
that a higher AoA attachment point of the wings won't increase induce
drag but parasite drag, right? It makes sense. However, if I may ask:
You wrote: The horizontal stab is a big brake.
Yes, it is. But if say, you decide to install a stronger engine that
gives you more speed, can't you adjust the angle of your horizontal
stab accordingly?
This is only a theoretical question because while my model 3 with its
new Jabiru can easily exceed Vne, only looking at the thin lexan
windscreen makes me throttle back long before that! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
Rex,
The tires are our own brand King Fox Tires they are a
treadless tire 21"x12"x8" for more detail go to the
web page
http://mipowerparachute.com/Tires.html
They are selling for $2.50 each plus $25.00 for
shipping in the lower 48. $30.00 1 set shipped to your
door.
Kevin
--- Rexinator <rexinator@gmail.com> wrote:
> <rexinator@gmail.com>
>
> Precisely what size, style and brand tires are they
> selling?
>
> Thanks,
> Rex
> Colorado
>
> Sjklerks@aol.com wrote:
>
> > It,s a great deal I just went to MIPPI and picked
> up 7 pair for 35.00.
> > Guys don't miss out on this. Jim
>
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
> Admin.
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Just a quick note for those who may be interested. A guy from Rexburg,
Idaho just crashed a P-51 on the interchange closing both north and
south lanes of traffic. All that is left is two short pieces of the wing
still connected to fuselage with the gear down and staring straight in
the air. No tail section or engine/prop anywhere to be seen. Its strung
around pretty good but the guy walked away from it. The word is they
just completed an engine install.
Its always nice to see someone walk away from one of these even if is
not a Kitfox.
Dee Young
Model II
Do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Sure you could, but wouldnt it be better to drop the leading edge of the wing back
down so you were not looking down when in cruise ???
Then you get into the adding more ponies, stretching it out, cruising faster, costing
more, taking alot longer to get off the ground, and get away from the original
spirit of the Fox.....
Why not just go buy a 180 and get it over with lol...
--------
Leni
Avid C W/582
1260 full lotus
.......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82941#82941
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Sure you could WHAT??? No reference to a previous post. Where is this
thread going. I'm lost
Don Smythe
> Sure you could,
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Hmmm, Older Kitfox cruise speeds and a P-51 crashed. Sounds
interesting. Where is this thread going?
Don Smythe
Just a quick note for those who may be interested. A guy from Rexburg,
Idaho just crashed a P-51 on the interchange closing both
Message 28
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Sorry Don, I forgot to change the subject line.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe<mailto:dosmythe@cox.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
Hmmm, Older Kitfox cruise speeds and a P-51 crashed. Sounds
interesting. Where is this thread going?
Don Smythe
Just a quick note for those who may be interested. A guy from
Rexburg, Idaho just crashed a P-51 on the interchange closing both
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
Message 29
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Were did he crash, at Rexburg.
Dee Young wrote:
> Just a quick note for those who may be interested. A guy from Rexburg,
> Idaho just crashed a P-51 on the interchange closing both north and
> south lanes of traffic. All that is left is two short pieces of the
> wing still connected to fuselage with the gear down and staring
> straight in the air. No tail section or engine/prop anywhere to be
> seen. Its strung around pretty good but the guy walked away from it.
> The word is they just completed an engine install.
>
> Its always nice to see someone walk away from one of these even if is
> not a Kitfox.
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Sure you could....... He asked about changing the AOI on the horizontal stab.
I replied that Sure you could, but it would be easier (or better) to lower the
AOI on the wing ie. drop the leading edge of the wing....Either way you would
have to do some welding right ?????
As all of this is hypothetical, the thread is really going nowhere quick.
Must have put a bigger engine in the thread huh...
I forgot where I was for a moment. I forgot that this was a strictly business
only site...
nobeerchugforgettingofftopic
--------
Leni
Avid C W/582
1260 full lotus
.......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82958#82958
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox cruise speeds |
Hi Michel I think the undercamber in itself creates drag. This as well as
the lift on top from "Bernoulli's principle" or whatever make the wing
prefer to lift even at 0 AOA. The Riblett Airfoil has no undercamber, is
slippery, and glides forever. Sorry to but in, but I'm stoked on how fast
the Speedster really is. Ron NB Ore
ps Merry Christmas
>From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox cruise speeds
>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:14:13 +0100
>
>
>On Dec 20, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Paul Seehafer wrote:
>>Sure, the newer Kitfox (Riblett) airfoil helps to make the newer Kitfoxes
>>cruise faster, but even if you were to put a new Riblett wing on an older
>>Kitfox, my guess is you wouldn't see a lot of cruise speed increase,
>>because there is just too much positive wing incidence causing a lot of
>>drag.
>
>Hello Paul,
>Since I read your email, yesterday, I have been thinking about this and I
>just can't figure out how it works. From the X-Plane flight simulator, I am
>used to make digital models. I don't know how it is done in real life but I
>guess it is done in relation to a reference line. Let's say, a line going
>from the prop hub to the end of the fuselage. From that, various airfoils
>can be built, each with a different angle of attack. I think angle of
>attack (AoA) is usually used as the angle to that reference line, where
>angle of incidence is the actual angle made by the apparent wind and the
>airfoil.
>If we look at the AoA, we see that, as it increases, the coefficient of
>lift and the coefficient of drag increase too. As speed increases and lift
>increases to the square of the speed, one has to push the stick to keep the
>plane at level flight.
>Now, if the actual attachment of the wings' root to the fuselage is
>different from one model to another, it means that, for the same speed, one
>plane will fly with a slightly greater nose-down attitude. But how does
>that influences the maximum speed you can achieve for a given engine horse
>power? My understanding is that an airfoil has a constant lift/drag ration
>for a given AoA. Did I miss something?
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
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Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox setting RPM |
I have a mod 2 and seem to have a wondering RPM motor speed trimming and
setting angel of attack seems like an endless task. what to do? 582 gsc prop
Max 6200 on climb mal michigan kitfoxer
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox setting RPM |
Mal I set the max rpm to 6800 on my 582 with GSC. This will cost you some
top end though. Ron NB Ore
>From: Malcolmbru@aol.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Older Kitfox setting RPM
>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:48:02 EST
>
>I have a mod 2 and seem to have a wondering RPM motor speed trimming and
>setting angel of attack seems like an endless task. what to do? 582 gsc
>prop
>Max 6200 on climb mal michigan kitfoxer
_________________________________________________________________
Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
I note that these tires are rated for 730 lbs. maximum load. Would
they be suitable for a Kitfox 5 which is one of the heavier Kitfoxes?
Jim Crowder
At 05:23 PM 12/21/2006, you wrote:
>Rex,
>The tires are our own brand King Fox Tires they are a
>treadless tire 21"x12"x8" for more detail go to the
>web page
>
>http://mipowerparachute.com/Tires.html
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Older Kitfox setting RPM |
I have a 582 Blue head on a E box and IVO 3 Blade on my KF-2 . 6,800 is
what Lockwood said it should be. I was asking because I was at 6,200 and was
happy. They said I was giving up a lot of HP at 6,200. Took a bit of pitch
out of my IVO and it went to 6,400 to 6,450. It was a big improvement. I
havent changed it since. I might take some more pitch out someday...
These 2 strokes are a bit peaky and like to rev. Easier on engine but this
topic has been there before...:-)
Personally, I think 6,400 to 6,800 is ideal.
Dave
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