Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:51 AM - Re: GSC prop protractor (Tom Jones)
2. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: Possible overheating and EGT question (Noel Loveys)
3. 07:16 AM - Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? (Lowell Fitt)
4. 07:16 AM - Fuel Flw (howard)
5. 07:30 AM - Re: Possible overheating and EGT question (Lowell Fitt)
6. 07:34 AM - Re: wing tank model 2-3 (Lowell Fitt)
7. 07:47 AM - Re: wing tank model 2-3 (dave)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Possible overheating and EGT question (Lynn Matteson)
9. 09:25 AM - Re: Fuel Flw (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
10. 09:28 AM - Re: Possible overheating and EGT question (JC Propellerdesign)
11. 10:25 AM - Re: GSC prop protractor (Todd Leiss)
12. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: Possible overheating and EGT question (Torgeir Mortensen)
13. 11:17 AM - Re: Possible overheating and EGT question (Torgeir Mortensen)
14. 11:34 AM - Re: Michel Fabic tearing topic (Michel Verheughe)
15. 11:41 AM - Re: Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Michel Verheughe)
16. 11:46 AM - Re: Michel Fabic tearing topic (dave)
17. 11:51 AM - Tyre drag. WAS: Fox Tires only $2.50? (Michel Verheughe)
18. 12:23 PM - Re: Possible overheating and EGT question (Torgeir Mortensen)
19. 01:20 PM - Re: wing tank model 2-3 (Lowell Fitt)
20. 04:05 PM - how do I (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
21. 05:16 PM - Re: how do I (Noel Loveys)
22. 05:23 PM - Re: wing tank model 2-3 (ron schick)
23. 05:46 PM - Re: Michel Fabic tearing topic (ron schick)
24. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Lynn Matteson)
25. 06:25 PM - Re: Possible overheating and EGT question (Lynn Matteson)
26. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: Skis for Kitfox's (dave)
27. 06:57 PM - Re: Fuel Flw (Torgeir Mortensen)
28. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Clem Nichols)
29. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: Skis for Kitfox's (Lynn Matteson)
30. 08:25 PM - Rotax 912-S flyers, What RPM do you look for on Climbout ? (JetPilot)
31. 10:01 PM - Re: dead-stick topic (Rexinator)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: GSC prop protractor |
Eric,
I have a GSC protractor that you can have. Let me know where to send it.
Tom Jones
tomfromlapine(at)peoplepc.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84182#84182
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Possible overheating and EGT question |
All you will ever want to know about Rotax engines
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/
There is a diagram on the left side of this page half way down Bing 54
http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginemaintenance/bingjet.html
Or
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/index.html
And To sync the 912 carbs.
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/912carbsync.html
Hope this helps.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:40 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Possible overheating and EGT question
>
>
>
>
> > When I said one notch up, I meant one notch to bring the
> needle up having
> > more rich mixture.
> >
> > To actually do this, the locking ring has to go one notch
> down on the
> > needle itself...
>
> OK. Now I'm really confused. You wouldn't happen to know
> where I can find an illustration of what you are talking
> about? Also, when adjusting the mixture at the carb, how does
> one ensure that the two carbs stay in sync?
>
> -Luis
> -824KF
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84145#84145
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50? |
Ron,
That is a good question. I don't actually know as I didn't pay that much
attention. My guess, though less than 3 mph. I would be interested in your
experience.
Lowell N96KL Mod IV
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron schick" <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?
> <roncarolnikko@hotmail.com>
>
> Glad to hear that Lowell! My two sets arrived today and I must say I'm
> impressed. If these were "yellow tagged" they would cost a fortune. How
> much speed did you lose changing to the bigger tires. Since the Kitfox
> has the speed wing I may try to put them on my stol Avid first. Hafta
> lose the nosewheel first or it just wouldn't look right.
> Ron NB Ore
>
>
>>From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kit Fox Tires only $2.50?
>>Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 15:13:56 -0800
>>
>>
>>Been out of town. Interesting getting cought up with the Kitfox list
>>stuff.
>>
>>Regarding these tires. I don't recall when I put them on my airplane, but
>>found some pictures John McBean took at the Cameron Park fly-in of 2003
>>and it looks like they were on the airplane then.
>>
>>I have 360 hours on the airplane since that fly-in and at least that many
>>landings as I have averaged at least one landing per hour. Most landings
>>have been on pavement with some really rough stuff in the Idaho trips. I
>>keep them at 10 psi.
>>
>>So far no flats and no cords showing. That is what I will use to
>>determind thier service life. I have a replacement set, otherwise I would
>>be an instant buyer.
>>
>>Lowell N96KL Model IV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
> www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
>
>
>
Message 4
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My Model IV 1200, has been feeding fuel from the right tank with gas in
the left also. I finally deceided to run to see if the gas would
transfer. Luckly for me, it stopped on final at our airport. The left
tank had gas in it. It would not start, we added gas to the right tank,
and after a few minutes on choke, it started.
Question...what would cause the tanks not to flow evenly. We had check
the lines, and they all flowed. I would think the tanks would level up
when sitting on the ground, but they do not seem to cross flow.
Suggestions please.
Howard
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Possible overheating and EGT question |
Torgeir,
I have understood, as you say, that the the EGT probe is measuring a
differential temperature between the probe and the end of the metal shielded
lead. My lead does not terminate in the cockpit, although there is
sufficient length to do so. The leads on the Lancair IV I am helping with
are too short to enter the cockpit We coiled the leads aft of the first two
cylinders so the leads terminate in the same relative location, but they are
in the engine compartment. These airplanes are built to fly in the flight
levels so positioning the terminals above the baffling would give the
reference temps a great fluctuation. They are positioned below the baffles
of necessity due to their length.
Your thoughts.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Possible overheating and EGT question
> <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Luis, (not sure about your name)
>
> Funny this thing, as I thought I'll write some- about the EGT system
> before the New Year. Hmmm...
>
> The thing is that, the EGT system is measuring differential temperature.
> Ok., the system that is used for measuring the exhaust gas temperature is
> measuring temperature difference, NOT absolute temperature!!
>
> Well, it is measuring the temperature difference between the
> cockpit(inside cockpit temperature -NOT the OAT!) and the EGT probe
> temperature.
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wing tank model 2-3 |
Noel,
In the early days of small instrument panel and panel tank kitfoxes, the
wing tanks were available options. The tanks were in two sizes as you
mention. My guess is that with the light weights of the early airplanes, it
was considered wise to put the large tank on the mostly empty passenger seat
side and the small tank on the pilot side for lateral ballance.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 7:18 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>
> John:
>
> My plane has a 6 Gal U.S. tank on the left side and a 13.5 Gal. U.S. on
> the
> right. I was wondering if you can think of a good reason for this
> configuration....
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> john perry
>> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:08 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>>
>>
>>
>> I am looking for a wingtank for the Model 2 -3 , 13.5
>> gallon needs to
>> be a left tank .
>>
>> Wahoo supposed to snow this weekend will be fun on skis for
>> some of us .
>>
>> John Perry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: wing tank model 2-3 |
Lowell,
What do you think of a tank that could be mounted behind the seat ?
Custon made of course but you could get I would guess 5 to 10 gal capacity
there.
I have taken may times 3 of the 2 imp container there. so an extra 30
litres or so.
My Baggage sack is tie wrapped in with eyelets in the canvas not velcro-ed
like some.
I have thought of making a new baggage compartment that is solid with a side
door and might do this winter.
My floats are handy for extra fuel cans as well.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>
> Noel,
>
> In the early days of small instrument panel and panel tank kitfoxes, the
> wing tanks were available options. The tanks were in two sizes as you
> mention. My guess is that with the light weights of the early airplanes,
> it was considered wise to put the large tank on the mostly empty passenger
> seat side and the small tank on the pilot side for lateral ballance.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 7:18 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>
>
>>
>> John:
>>
>> My plane has a 6 Gal U.S. tank on the left side and a 13.5 Gal. U.S. on
>> the
>> right. I was wondering if you can think of a good reason for this
>> configuration....
>>
>> Noel
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> john perry
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:08 PM
>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am looking for a wingtank for the Model 2 -3 , 13.5
>>> gallon needs to
>>> be a left tank .
>>>
>>> Wahoo supposed to snow this weekend will be fun on skis for
>>> some of us .
>>>
>>> John Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Possible overheating and EGT question |
Lowell-
I think what Torgeir said was that the EGT reading is a differential
between the probe and the cockpit temp. My understanding of my EIS is
that it references the unit temperature...that is, the temp of the
EIS "unit" itself, and any other temp that you are monitoring. If
Torgeir was not talking about the EIS unit, this comment may not apply.
Lynn
On Dec 29, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Torgeir,
>
> I have understood, as you say, that the the EGT probe is measuring
> a differential temperature between the probe and the end of the
> metal shielded lead. My lead does not terminate in the cockpit,
> although there is sufficient length to do so. The leads on the
> Lancair IV I am helping with are too short to enter the cockpit We
> coiled the leads aft of the first two cylinders so the leads
> terminate in the same relative location, but they are in the engine
> compartment. These airplanes are built to fly in the flight levels
> so positioning the terminals above the baffling would give the
> reference temps a great fluctuation. They are positioned below the
> baffles of necessity due to their length.
>
> Your thoughts.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torgeir Mortensen"
> <torgemor@online.no>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Possible overheating and EGT question
>
>
>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>
>> Hi Luis, (not sure about your name)
>>
>> Funny this thing, as I thought I'll write some- about the EGT
>> system before the New Year. Hmmm...
>>
>> The thing is that, the EGT system is measuring differential
>> temperature. Ok., the system that is used for measuring the
>> exhaust gas temperature is measuring temperature difference, NOT
>> absolute temperature!!
>>
>> Well, it is measuring the temperature difference between the
>> cockpit(inside cockpit temperature -NOT the OAT!) and the EGT
>> probe temperature.
>>
>
>
Message 9
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|
a similar experience was found to be caused by an undiscovered kink in the left
hose when the wing was swung forward into flight position. we did not make it
back to the airport but landed in a nearby hayfield
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "howard" <rv73hl@comcast.net>
My Model IV 1200, has been feeding fuel from the right tank with gas in the left
also. I finally deceided to run to see if the gas would transfer. Luckly for
me, it stopped on final at our airport. The left tank had gas in it. It would
not start, we added gas to the right tank, and after a few minutes on choke,
it started.
Question...what would cause the tanks not to flow evenly. We had check the lines,
and they all flowed. I would think the tanks would level up when sitting
on the ground, but they do not seem to cross flow.
Suggestions please.
Howard
<html><body>
<DIV>a similar experience was found to be caused by an undiscovered kink in the
left hose when the wing was swung forward into flight position. we did
not make it back to the airport but landed in a nearby hayfield</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "howard" <rv73hl@comcast.net>
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3020" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>My Model IV 1200, has been feeding fuel from the right tank
with gas in the left also. I finally deceided to run to see if the gas
would transfer. Luckly for me, it stopped on final at our airport.
The left tank had gas in it. It would not start, we added gas to the
right tank, and after a few minutes on choke, it started.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Question...what would cause the tanks not to flow evenly.
We had check the lines, and they all flowed. I would think the tanks
would level up when sitting on the ground, but they do not seem to cross flow.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Suggestions please.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Howard</FONT></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier"
size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Possible overheating and EGT question |
What I understand is that the reading is between the probe inside the
exhaust tube, and the part of the wire closest to the probe, that's why
it work better if it get cold air flow over the wires.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynn Matteson
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Possible overheating and EGT question
Lowell-
I think what Torgeir said was that the EGT reading is a differential
between the probe and the cockpit temp. My understanding of my EIS is
that it references the unit temperature...that is, the temp of the
EIS "unit" itself, and any other temp that you are monitoring. If
Torgeir was not talking about the EIS unit, this comment may not
apply.
Lynn
On Dec 29, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Torgeir,
>
> I have understood, as you say, that the the EGT probe is measuring
> a differential temperature between the probe and the end of the
> metal shielded lead. My lead does not terminate in the cockpit,
> although there is sufficient length to do so. The leads on the
> Lancair IV I am helping with are too short to enter the cockpit We
> coiled the leads aft of the first two cylinders so the leads
> terminate in the same relative location, but they are in the engine
> compartment. These airplanes are built to fly in the flight levels
> so positioning the terminals above the baffling would give the
> reference temps a great fluctuation. They are positioned below the
> baffles of necessity due to their length.
>
> Your thoughts.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torgeir Mortensen"
> <torgemor@online.no>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Possible overheating and EGT question
>
>
>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>
>> Hi Luis, (not sure about your name)
>>
>> Funny this thing, as I thought I'll write some- about the EGT
>> system before the New Year. Hmmm...
>>
>> The thing is that, the EGT system is measuring differential
>> temperature. Ok., the system that is used for measuring the
>> exhaust gas temperature is measuring temperature difference, NOT
>> absolute temperature!!
>>
>> Well, it is measuring the temperature difference between the
>> cockpit(inside cockpit temperature -NOT the OAT!) and the EGT
>> probe temperature.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | GSC prop protractor |
Sir,
If your the Eric from Merrit Island Airport, Your welcome to borrow mine.
Todd Leiss
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric
Sent: 12/28/2006 5:53:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: GSC prop protractor
Does anyone have a GSC prop protractor that they no longer need. I would like to
buy it.
Eric
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Possible overheating and EGT question |
I was afraid about that you'll become confused.
Sorry for this.
Well, you was talking about over temp. due to the fact that some of the
coolant escaped through the overflow, right.
You did not state engine type, but I'll guess it's a 912?
An unsynchronized carb. most often create vibration and rough running
engine, due to different mixture between the two sides of the boxer engine.
This can sometimes be seen as a "big" difference in EGT reading between
the cylinder pairs (L/R side pairs differing to much).
Your problem is prob. due to winter operation -but, and your engine might
run lean, this increase the water temperature.
Or ?, this might be related to the cooling system itself, water pockets,
water pump or sometimes just a little lo on the water level ??
Well, you've already got "manual" references, so wishing you good luck.
Torgeir.
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 06:10:29 +0100, wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com> wrote:
>
>
>> When I said one notch up, I meant one notch to bring the needle up
>> having
>> more rich mixture.
>>
>> To actually do this, the locking ring has to go one notch down on the
>> needle itself...
>
> OK. Now I'm really confused. You wouldn't happen to know where I can
> find an illustration of what you are talking about? Also, when adjusting
> the mixture at the carb, how does one ensure that the two carbs stay in
> sync?
>
> -Luis
> -824KF
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84145#84145
>
>
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Possible overheating and EGT question |
You're correct Lowell, the cold junction is at the connection point of the
thermocouple harness. This is the "harness" that's connected directly to
the probe.
Normally, this two wires "Chromel and Alumel" is connected directly to the
indicator, this is why "the cold junction point" normally is referred to
the indicator location.
However, now an then wires need to be changed or modified for various
reasons. In your case, the thermocouple harness is to short. Normally we
would order an extended thermocouple. Often we find them in three
different lengths, but all of them has the same resistance, if you measure
them with the EGT probe immersed into a mixture of ice and water. If this
mixture is stirred, it's the lab. definition of zero degrees Celsius, the
freezing point. In fact folk, we're using this method to really calibrate
accurate those big jet engines EGT systems, and here we're talking about a
different of one tent of a degree!!
The connection method Westberg (or nowadays Westach) use is the so called
"uncertain method", which is good enough for the kind of use they mention!
I've attached a little picture from their web site, that's show this
method very well. Anyway, the cold junction temperature Westach use is 70
Deg. F., or 21.11 Deg Celsius. This is their way of philosophy, cause most
operation take place in this temperature area, so the end result "might"
not be to far away if the cold junction is ignored.
The other calibration point they are using is the zero degrees Celsius
reference, this is in fact the standard cold junction reference point, did
you know that the "Chromel/Alumel" give 0 VDC at this temperature??
Handy, isnt?
Now back to your problem, the short thermocouple harness. Do you know the
actual resistance for his cable(this value is often stamped on the
instrument side)?
If those two wires is to be extended, you'll have to make sure that the
total resistance do not increase to much, as this will create an
additional error and the indicator will give to low reading when temp is
high.
The standard cable (thermocouple) Westach are using is 2.4 Ohm. This total
value is not to be altered as this will ruin the system accuracy. There is
several solutions to this, the first and simplest is to use another probe
option with extended leads.
There's two more methods, "the preferred" Chromel/Alumel connection
method -and a simple extension using "the preferred" connection.
Then to the link, Westach is here:
http://www.westach.com/
On the left side under INFORMATION, select Hardcopy Catalog then roll down
and select page 53; Then you'll see (the original picture)"THE PRINCIPLE
OF A THERMOCOUPLE"
So if you got one of those indicators, you'll find all the information
needed here for all of their instruments -also connection sheets etc.
The important thing is the resistance in the "added wires" -and that the
two spliced wires is in the same "temperature environment" that you can
measure all the time!
Remember, the temperature here (at the cold junction point) decide your
corrected reading -your true EGT temp.
Later on I'll make a few drawings how we use to connect the cold junction
by using the "preferred method". Maybe also a little about how we can
manipulate the system and still have a correct reading.
Torgeir.
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:29:49 +0100, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
> Torgeir,
>
> I have understood, as you say, that the the EGT probe is measuring a
> differential temperature between the probe and the end of the metal
> shielded lead. My lead does not terminate in the cockpit, although
> there is sufficient length to do so. The leads on the Lancair IV I am
> helping with are too short to enter the cockpit We coiled the leads aft
> of the first two cylinders so the leads terminate in the same relative
> location, but they are in the engine compartment. These airplanes are
> built to fly in the flight levels so positioning the terminals above the
> baffling would give the reference temps a great fluctuation. They are
> positioned below the baffles of necessity due to their length.
>
> Your thoughts.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torgeir Mortensen"
> <torgemor@online.no>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Possible overheating and EGT question
>
>
>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>
>> Hi Luis, (not sure about your name)
>>
>> Funny this thing, as I thought I'll write some- about the EGT system
>> before the New Year. Hmmm...
>>
>> The thing is that, the EGT system is measuring differential
>> temperature. Ok., the system that is used for measuring the exhaust gas
>> temperature is measuring temperature difference, NOT absolute
>> temperature!!
>>
>> Well, it is measuring the temperature difference between the
>> cockpit(inside cockpit temperature -NOT the OAT!) and the EGT probe
>> temperature.
>>
>
>
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Michel Fabic tearing topic |
On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:20 PM, dave wrote:
> well why not do some stalls and take off the headset to hear the
> sounds you described before and all i heard was the air leaks !!
That would certainly be a good way to find out where the sound is
coming from, Dave. However, I have a problem. One year ago, I was
talking to this list about dead-stick landing and after I was told that
I never tried it after doing it with my instructor, I was told that I
should. Then I obeyed and I did, and I enjoyed it. In fact, each time I
am alone and the weather is stable, I land dead-stick. A while ago, I
told that to the Jabiru Engine list. There, I got the opposite
reaction. I was told that it was dangerous to cut out a perfectly
running engine and that I could try dead-stick with the engine at idle.
Now, I am confused and I don't know if I should or I should not.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
On Dec 29, 2006, at 1:36 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> I was actually referring to your friend...Paul?...who welded your skis.
Yes, here is the story, Lynn. I got some good photos of wheel
penetrating skis from a Norwegian Avid pilot. With the photos in the
background, I went to make a technical drawing, at scale (scaling on
the tyre diameter) of what I felt was a good reproduction of the Avid
Flyer's skis. Then I asked my friend Paul, who has been a welder for 40
years, to make them for me, from the drawings and the photos. But
first, I took him for a flight, we looked at the gear construction, the
axis, etc. Then he made them.
I even trusted them enough to go flying with me after the first trial
that I have published on my web page. Incidentally, he is also the guy
who welded my Jabiru engine mount. Those who have seen it say that it
is a beautiful welding job.
Should I hit a rock under the snow, I don't know what will give up
first. But, from taking the plane in and out of the hangar, it becomes
evident to me that a side force on one end of the ski will give a big
twisting moment and will probably damage the entire gear. So, my wish
is that it would only bend the ski and not the gear. Does that make
sense?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Michel Fabic tearing topic |
Only conern that I personally would have on the Jabiru is that it is air
cooled and potential shock cooling could certainly be a possibility. Do you
use a winter front in colder temps ?
Dead sticking is just gliding and we all fly gliders , powered gliders. So
to each his own but your glide will most likely be further with prop
stopped that with it at idle or windmilling. And I know that mine will air
start with at least 90 mph of airpseed so even if the starter fails that is
an option. Other option is to land, so I guess you should pick a spot with
lots of places where you could land if needed. Also If you try an air
start you will needa good pitch down and will likley lose at least 500 feet
trying it so do it at least a few thousand feet up.
I think you will be surprized at all the air noise, does this mean that is
air drag that could be cleaned up ?
If you see the end of the one movie I did http://www.cfisher.com at the
very end i dead sticked in and you can hear the air as I fly by.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Michel Fabic tearing topic
>
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:20 PM, dave wrote:
>> well why not do some stalls and take off the headset to hear the sounds
>> you described before and all i heard was the air leaks !!
>
> That would certainly be a good way to find out where the sound is coming
> from, Dave. However, I have a problem. One year ago, I was talking to this
> list about dead-stick landing and after I was told that I never tried it
> after doing it with my instructor, I was told that I should. Then I obeyed
> and I did, and I enjoyed it. In fact, each time I am alone and the weather
> is stable, I land dead-stick. A while ago, I told that to the Jabiru
> Engine list. There, I got the opposite reaction. I was told that it was
> dangerous to cut out a perfectly running engine and that I could try
> dead-stick with the engine at idle.
> Now, I am confused and I don't know if I should or I should not.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Tyre drag. WAS: Fox Tires only $2.50? |
On Dec 29, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> That is a good question. I don't actually know as I didn't pay that
> much attention. My guess, though less than 3 mph. I would be
> interested in your experience.
I think your guess is quite correct, Lowell. A few years ago, I read in
a Norwegian aviation magazine that a EuroCub MkI (taildragger similar
to the Kitfox) pilot changed his 8" wide tyres for 6" wide and got no
more than a couple of knots faster.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Possible overheating and EGT question |
Hi Lynn,
Yes, you're right by now you've probably been reading my post to Lowell
about this.
Funny that you mention the EIS, I'm a little curious about this system,
cause such a modern design should have an automatic cold junction
compensation system built in, I.E. the system measure the actual
instrument temperature and then correct the reading so you'll always be
reading the true EGT (well, -the temp at the probe).
If you are using this system, it could be interesting to know their cold
junction reference.
Yes, the principle is just the same, except that they're using an
amplifier and an analog to digital converter -vola..
Torgeir
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:56:27 +0100, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> Lowell-
>
> I think what Torgeir said was that the EGT reading is a differential
> between the probe and the cockpit temp. My understanding of my EIS is
> that it references the unit temperature...that is, the temp of the EIS
> "unit" itself, and any other temp that you are monitoring. If Torgeir
> was not talking about the EIS unit, this comment may not apply.
>
> Lynn
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>>
>> Torgeir,
>>
>> I have understood, as you say, that the the EGT probe is measuring a
>> differential temperature between the probe and the end of the metal
>> shielded lead. My lead does not terminate in the cockpit, although
>> there is sufficient length to do so. The leads on the Lancair IV I am
>> helping with are too short to enter the cockpit We coiled the leads
>> aft of the first two cylinders so the leads terminate in the same
>> relative location, but they are in the engine compartment. These
>> airplanes are built to fly in the flight levels so positioning the
>> terminals above the baffling would give the reference temps a great
>> fluctuation. They are positioned below the baffles of necessity due to
>> their length.
>>
>> Your thoughts.
>>
>> Lowell
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torgeir Mortensen"
>> <torgemor@online.no>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Possible overheating and EGT question
>>
>>
>>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>>
>>> Hi Luis, (not sure about your name)
>>>
>>> Funny this thing, as I thought I'll write some- about the EGT system
>>> before the New Year. Hmmm...
>>>
>>> The thing is that, the EGT system is measuring differential
>>> temperature. Ok., the system that is used for measuring the exhaust
>>> gas temperature is measuring temperature difference, NOT absolute
>>> temperature!!
>>>
>>> Well, it is measuring the temperature difference between the
>>> cockpit(inside cockpit temperature -NOT the OAT!) and the EGT probe
>>> temperature.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: wing tank model 2-3 |
Dave,
Sounds like a doable idea. I have an aluminum header tank a bit larger than
the original supplied in the kit. It is mounted aft of the baggage sack and
does affect CG more than if mounted directly behind the seat as the newer
header tanks are. It seems to me that it would be much easier to put fuel
there for extended range than in the wing which would require some serious
fabric work. It seems to me that it could work as an enlarged header tank.
Lowell N96KL
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>
> Lowell,
> What do you think of a tank that could be mounted behind the seat ?
> Custon made of course but you could get I would guess 5 to 10 gal capacity
> there.
> I have taken may times 3 of the 2 imp container there. so an extra 30
> litres or so.
> My Baggage sack is tie wrapped in with eyelets in the canvas not
> velcro-ed like some.
> I have thought of making a new baggage compartment that is solid with a
> side door and might do this winter.
>
> My floats are handy for extra fuel cans as well.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>
>
>>
>> Noel,
>>
>> In the early days of small instrument panel and panel tank kitfoxes, the
>> wing tanks were available options. The tanks were in two sizes as you
>> mention. My guess is that with the light weights of the early airplanes,
>> it was considered wise to put the large tank on the mostly empty
>> passenger seat side and the small tank on the pilot side for lateral
>> ballance.
>>
>> Lowell
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 7:18 PM
>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>>
>>
>>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> My plane has a 6 Gal U.S. tank on the left side and a 13.5 Gal. U.S. on
>>> the
>>> right. I was wondering if you can think of a good reason for this
>>> configuration....
>>>
>>> Noel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> john perry
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:08 PM
>>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am looking for a wingtank for the Model 2 -3 , 13.5
>>>> gallon needs to
>>>> be a left tank .
>>>>
>>>> Wahoo supposed to snow this weekend will be fun on skis for
>>>> some of us .
>>>>
>>>> John Perry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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how do I cansey a subcription to the list?
Message 21
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You can go to the list site with your browser and on the opening page near
the top there is a link I think it says "Edit Membership". That will take
you to a page where you choose the E-Mail address etc. Close to the bottom
of that page on the right hand side there is a link that says, "Leave
Group". Click it
Let me know when you are ready to fly!
Good luck!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolmbru@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: how do I
how do I cansey a subcription to the list?
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: wing tank model 2-3 |
The weights and balance might be a challenge, but I saw a rear mounted tank
at Arlington this year. I'll try to attach a picture or three. Ron NB Ore
>From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:47:06 -0500
>
>
>Lowell,
>What do you think of a tank that could be mounted behind the seat ?
>Custon made of course but you could get I would guess 5 to 10 gal capacity
>there.
>I have taken may times 3 of the 2 imp container there. so an extra 30
>litres or so.
>My Baggage sack is tie wrapped in with eyelets in the canvas not velcro-ed
>like some.
>I have thought of making a new baggage compartment that is solid with a
>side door and might do this winter.
>
>My floats are handy for extra fuel cans as well.
>
>
>Dave
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:33 AM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>
>
>>
>>Noel,
>>
>>In the early days of small instrument panel and panel tank kitfoxes, the
>>wing tanks were available options. The tanks were in two sizes as you
>>mention. My guess is that with the light weights of the early airplanes,
>>it was considered wise to put the large tank on the mostly empty passenger
>>seat side and the small tank on the pilot side for lateral ballance.
>>
>>Lowell
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 7:18 PM
>>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>>
>>
>>>
>>>John:
>>>
>>>My plane has a 6 Gal U.S. tank on the left side and a 13.5 Gal. U.S. on
>>>the
>>>right. I was wondering if you can think of a good reason for this
>>>configuration....
>>>
>>>Noel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>>>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>john perry
>>>>Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:08 PM
>>>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>>>Subject: Kitfox-List: wing tank model 2-3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I am looking for a wingtank for the Model 2 -3 , 13.5
>>>>gallon needs to
>>>>be a left tank .
>>>>
>>>>Wahoo supposed to snow this weekend will be fun on skis for
>>>>some of us .
>>>>
>>>>John Perry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0639
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Michel Fabic tearing topic |
Ah Michel I always try to learn from others then do as I feel
comfortable. If I had not thought outside the box I would not be flying
airplanes at all. As long as you feel safe and comfortable then don't let
the timid ruin your fun. Wilbur and Orville did'nt. Now the debate is
on! Ron NB Ore do not archive
>From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Michel Fabic tearing topic Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006
>20:33:48 +0100
>
>
>On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:20 PM, dave wrote:
>>well why not do some stalls and take off the headset to hear the sounds
>>you described before and all i heard was the air leaks !!
>
>That would certainly be a good way to find out where the sound is coming
>from, Dave. However, I have a problem. One year ago, I was talking to this
>list about dead-stick landing and after I was told that I never tried it
>after doing it with my instructor, I was told that I should. Then I obeyed
>and I did, and I enjoyed it. In fact, each time I am alone and the weather
>is stable, I land dead-stick. A while ago, I told that to the Jabiru Engine
>list. There, I got the opposite reaction. I was told that it was dangerous
>to cut out a perfectly running engine and that I could try dead-stick with
>the engine at idle.
>Now, I am confused and I don't know if I should or I should not.
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>do not archive
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop.
http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
Makes sense to me, Michel...kinda like a fuse for the landing gear.
I've got the Grove gear on mine, which is supposed to be a bit
stronger than the tube gear, so I'm not sure whether this will give
under the same circumstances as the tube gear or not.
Incidentally, I drove a couple hundred miles south into Ohio today,
and bought a tube notcher and a tube bending kit. When I got home, my
Spruce order was on the porch, which included my 4130 tubing and gas
welding rod....I'm starting my skis tomorrow...YEEEEHAWWWW!
Ok, Lynn, calm down....I'm gonna practice with both the MIG welder
and the gas, to determine which I like best. I got some advice from a
welding instructor at Sun 'n' Fun last year on which gas and type of
wire to use with the MIG, and lo and behold, that's exactly what I
had on hand at home. I bought the gas rod that Spruce claims is the
best for 4130....if you can believe them, so I've got some choices to
play with.
Lynn
On Dec 29, 2006, at 2:41 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 1:36 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> I was actually referring to your friend...Paul?...who welded your
>> skis.
>
> Yes, here is the story, Lynn. I got some good photos of wheel
> penetrating skis from a Norwegian Avid pilot. With the photos in
> the background, I went to make a technical drawing, at scale
> (scaling on the tyre diameter) of what I felt was a good
> reproduction of the Avid Flyer's skis. Then I asked my friend Paul,
> who has been a welder for 40 years, to make them for me, from the
> drawings and the photos. But first, I took him for a flight, we
> looked at the gear construction, the axis, etc. Then he made them.
> I even trusted them enough to go flying with me after the first
> trial that I have published on my web page. Incidentally, he is
> also the guy who welded my Jabiru engine mount. Those who have seen
> it say that it is a beautiful welding job.
> Should I hit a rock under the snow, I don't know what will give up
> first. But, from taking the plane in and out of the hangar, it
> becomes evident to me that a side force on one end of the ski will
> give a big twisting moment and will probably damage the entire
> gear. So, my wish is that it would only bend the ski and not the
> gear. Does that make sense?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Possible overheating and EGT question |
I just looked for my manual for the EIS, but it's at the hangar. I
know they mention the cold junction, and say that it should be kept
as far from heat sources as possible, so they must be worried that
this junction will get hot and foul up the reading. But elsewhere I
recall reading that the unit temperature is what is used to compare
all other temp readings to, so I'm at a loss to say anything,
really...and I'm certainly no electronics person.
Lynn
On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:22 PM, Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Lynn,
>
> Yes, you're right by now you've probably been reading my post to
> Lowell about this.
>
> Funny that you mention the EIS, I'm a little curious about this
> system, cause such a modern design should have an automatic cold
> junction compensation system built in, I.E. the system measure the
> actual instrument temperature and then correct the reading so
> you'll always be reading the true EGT (well, -the temp at the probe).
>
> If you are using this system, it could be interesting to know their
> cold junction reference.
>
> Yes, the principle is just the same, except that they're using an
> amplifier and an analog to digital converter -vola..
>
> Torgeir
>
>
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:56:27 +0100, Lynn Matteson
> <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Lowell-
>>
>> I think what Torgeir said was that the EGT reading is a
>> differential between the probe and the cockpit temp. My
>> understanding of my EIS is that it references the unit
>> temperature...that is, the temp of the EIS "unit" itself, and any
>> other temp that you are monitoring. If Torgeir was not talking
>> about the EIS unit, this comment may not apply.
>>
>> Lynn
>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>>
>>> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>>
>>> Torgeir,
>>>
>>> I have understood, as you say, that the the EGT probe is
>>> measuring a differential temperature between the probe and the
>>> end of the metal shielded lead. My lead does not terminate in
>>> the cockpit, although there is sufficient length to do so. The
>>> leads on the Lancair IV I am helping with are too short to enter
>>> the cockpit We coiled the leads aft of the first two cylinders
>>> so the leads terminate in the same relative location, but they
>>> are in the engine compartment. These airplanes are built to fly
>>> in the flight levels so positioning the terminals above the
>>> baffling would give the reference temps a great fluctuation.
>>> They are positioned below the baffles of necessity due to their
>>> length.
>>>
>>> Your thoughts.
>>>
>>> Lowell
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torgeir Mortensen"
>>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:55 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Possible overheating and EGT question
>>>
>>>
>>>> <torgemor@online.no>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Luis, (not sure about your name)
>>>>
>>>> Funny this thing, as I thought I'll write some- about the EGT
>>>> system before the New Year. Hmmm...
>>>>
>>>> The thing is that, the EGT system is measuring differential
>>>> temperature. Ok., the system that is used for measuring the
>>>> exhaust gas temperature is measuring temperature difference, NOT
>>>> absolute temperature!!
>>>>
>>>> Well, it is measuring the temperature difference between the
>>>> cockpit(inside cockpit temperature -NOT the OAT!) and the EGT
>>>> probe temperature.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
<<....I'm gonna practice with both the MIG welder
and the gas, to determine which I like best>>
I will take oxy/acetylene over Mig even though our Kitfoxes are Mig welded.
035 wall is thin and best to do some joints like t joints and try to break
them apart.
See where weld or tube breaks. Also you can drill the weld -- if it too
hard it will be hard to drill and most likely be brittle. you can
normalize joints with a torch and with MIG your joints can cool too fast.
Hope that helps .
Dave
PS get some pics for us on these wheel skis in the making .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis for Kitfox's
>
> Makes sense to me, Michel...kinda like a fuse for the landing gear. I've
> got the Grove gear on mine, which is supposed to be a bit stronger than
> the tube gear, so I'm not sure whether this will give under the same
> circumstances as the tube gear or not.
>
> Incidentally, I drove a couple hundred miles south into Ohio today, and
> bought a tube notcher and a tube bending kit. When I got home, my Spruce
> order was on the porch, which included my 4130 tubing and gas welding
> rod....I'm starting my skis tomorrow...YEEEEHAWWWW!
> Ok, Lynn, calm down....I'm gonna practice with both the MIG welder and
> the gas, to determine which I like best. I got some advice from a welding
> instructor at Sun 'n' Fun last year on which gas and type of wire to use
> with the MIG, and lo and behold, that's exactly what I had on hand at
> home. I bought the gas rod that Spruce claims is the best for 4130....if
> you can believe them, so I've got some choices to play with.
>
> Lynn
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 2:41 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 1:36 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>> I was actually referring to your friend...Paul?...who welded your skis.
>>
>> Yes, here is the story, Lynn. I got some good photos of wheel
>> penetrating skis from a Norwegian Avid pilot. With the photos in the
>> background, I went to make a technical drawing, at scale (scaling on the
>> tyre diameter) of what I felt was a good reproduction of the Avid
>> Flyer's skis. Then I asked my friend Paul, who has been a welder for 40
>> years, to make them for me, from the drawings and the photos. But first,
>> I took him for a flight, we looked at the gear construction, the axis,
>> etc. Then he made them.
>> I even trusted them enough to go flying with me after the first trial
>> that I have published on my web page. Incidentally, he is also the guy
>> who welded my Jabiru engine mount. Those who have seen it say that it is
>> a beautiful welding job.
>> Should I hit a rock under the snow, I don't know what will give up
>> first. But, from taking the plane in and out of the hangar, it becomes
>> evident to me that a side force on one end of the ski will give a big
>> twisting moment and will probably damage the entire gear. So, my wish is
>> that it would only bend the ski and not the gear. Does that make sense?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Michel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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Hi Howard,
this is an interesting situation, I've been thinking a little about this
one. I'll say this is the first issue after the mandatory main tank "fuel
shutoff valve" removal.
Well, the removal of these two valves was a big mistake that Skystar did,
IMO. Do you have those installed??
There is three good reasons (at last) to keep this valves installed.
Lets first talk about your "possible" problem.
By some reason the pressure is higher in the right tank vs. the left side.
This explain the fuel transfere, it also explain your engine stoppage,
well how.
I'm assuming that you have the feeder went line connected to the left hand
main tank, right?
As we assume that the head pressure is lower in left tank, the transfere
take place -and fuel will be transferred by both the left feeder line and
the vent line. As the feeder is "pressurized" fuel transfere will use both
lines, that's why this go so fast.
As the left tank go dry, air start entering the feeder, the remaining fuel
is trapped in the left tank by the air pressure, the engine is using the
remaining fuel thats below both feeding lines inside the feeder. Soon
your engine loose power.
Ok., it's right that some fuel will leak into the feeder from the left
tank due to gravity, when feeder fuel level go below the feeder pipe
outlet. However, this leakage will be far to low for your engine demand.
Then to the cause of the low pressure in the left tank, the traditional is
an old leaky gasket at the main filler, but your plane is not that old so..
Next, could it be a leaky head tube? Or could it be a leaky left fuel tank
at some high spot? All of these three is hard to spot/verify without a
tank shut off valve.
So number one reason for having main fuel tank shut off valves, is to
avoid unwanted fuel tranfere and loss of endurance.
In your case fuel would still be able to tranfere even if you had the shut
off valve installed. This time via the vent line.
I've many times talked about a cross vent line, such arrangement would
prevent transfere, but will lower the total head pressure if one of the
tank is leaking.
Number two is a safety issue, well both tank outlet enter cockpit via a
rubber housing - if one of those rubber housing start leaking, to stop
such a leakage you'll need to shut both tank valves, but you'll still have
the header for landing..
Number three. When I'm parking, even for long term, one of the main is
open the other is closed. For maintenance this valve is a must.
OK.
The last thing you've mentioned, is the lack of transfere from left to
right via the feeder when on ground.
This is hard to explain, unless you have a rubber flap valve somewhere(one
way valve), mentioned in one of the old the Rotax Service Information
Letter, that prevent fuel to go toward the right tank.
Well lets see what happen now..
There is still something to ask, how much fuel was left in the left tank?
Was the fuel level above the venline tube where it is entering the left
tank?
Good Luck
Torgeir.
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:15:36 +0100, howard <rv73hl@comcast.net> wrote:
> My Model IV 1200, has been feeding fuel from the right tank with gas in
> the left also. I finally deceided to run to see if the gas would
> transfer. Luckly for me, it stopped on final at our airport. The left
> tank had gas in it. It would not start, we added gas to the right tank,
> and after a few minutes on choke, it started.
>
> Question...what would cause the tanks not to flow evenly. We had check
> the lines, and they all flowed. I would think the tanks would level up
> when sitting on the ground, but they do not seem to cross flow.
>
> Suggestions please.
>
> Howard
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
I've recently completed some repair on the 4130 framework of a Rans S14 I
own (in addition to my Kitfox). I had tried without success to get a local
professional to do it with a TIG welder which is apparently the preferred
method nowadays. After it became apparent that I was on my own, I purchased
a couple of books on welding and accessed all the information I could find
on the internet. From what I could gather, 4130 should be welded either
with TIG or with oxy-acetylene. Why not MIG? I never figured that out, but
that seemed to be the consensus. Not owning a TIG welder, and not
interested in spending over $1000 to purchase one, I resorted to my old
oxy-acetylene welder. The info I had recommended using Oxweld 32 rods which
are available from Aircraft Spruce. (They also sell a package of 4130
scraps which are helpful in practicing your technique.) My technique in
adjusting the flame (something I came across on another website) was to set
the acetylene pressure at 2 psi, light the gas, and then screw in the oxygen
regulator just enough to get the proper flame from the torch. My O2
regulator is not calibrated for very low pressure, and it didn't show any at
all when turned on in this manner, but this is what you want when welding
.035" material. This gives you a setup similar to the $370 Henron torch you
may have seen demonstrated at Sun-N-Fun or Oshkosh. Also you'll want to use
either a #0 or #1 tip on your torch to avoid burn-through. My sources
recommended not welding with TIG unless the temperature was 70 degrees or
above, and also recommended preheating before welding which is obviously
done with the gas unit. It was also recommended to withdraw the torch
slowly, which amounts to a bit of heat-treating. To any professional or
advanced amateurs on the list what I have just written may sound like a
bunch of nonsense, but it worked for me.
FWIW
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis for Kitfox's
>
> <<....I'm gonna practice with both the MIG welder
> and the gas, to determine which I like best>>
>
> I will take oxy/acetylene over Mig even though our Kitfoxes are Mig
> welded.
> 035 wall is thin and best to do some joints like t joints and try to break
> them apart.
> See where weld or tube breaks. Also you can drill the weld -- if it too
> hard it will be hard to drill and most likely be brittle. you can
> normalize joints with a torch and with MIG your joints can cool too fast.
>
>
> Hope that helps .
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> PS get some pics for us on these wheel skis in the making .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis for Kitfox's
>
>
>>
>> Makes sense to me, Michel...kinda like a fuse for the landing gear. I've
>> got the Grove gear on mine, which is supposed to be a bit stronger than
>> the tube gear, so I'm not sure whether this will give under the same
>> circumstances as the tube gear or not.
>>
>> Incidentally, I drove a couple hundred miles south into Ohio today, and
>> bought a tube notcher and a tube bending kit. When I got home, my Spruce
>> order was on the porch, which included my 4130 tubing and gas welding
>> rod....I'm starting my skis tomorrow...YEEEEHAWWWW!
>> Ok, Lynn, calm down....I'm gonna practice with both the MIG welder and
>> the gas, to determine which I like best. I got some advice from a
>> welding instructor at Sun 'n' Fun last year on which gas and type of
>> wire to use with the MIG, and lo and behold, that's exactly what I had
>> on hand at home. I bought the gas rod that Spruce claims is the best for
>> 4130....if you can believe them, so I've got some choices to play with.
>>
>> Lynn
>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 2:41 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 1:36 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>>> I was actually referring to your friend...Paul?...who welded your
>>>> skis.
>>>
>>> Yes, here is the story, Lynn. I got some good photos of wheel
>>> penetrating skis from a Norwegian Avid pilot. With the photos in the
>>> background, I went to make a technical drawing, at scale (scaling on
>>> the tyre diameter) of what I felt was a good reproduction of the Avid
>>> Flyer's skis. Then I asked my friend Paul, who has been a welder for 40
>>> years, to make them for me, from the drawings and the photos. But
>>> first, I took him for a flight, we looked at the gear construction, the
>>> axis, etc. Then he made them.
>>> I even trusted them enough to go flying with me after the first trial
>>> that I have published on my web page. Incidentally, he is also the guy
>>> who welded my Jabiru engine mount. Those who have seen it say that it
>>> is a beautiful welding job.
>>> Should I hit a rock under the snow, I don't know what will give up
>>> first. But, from taking the plane in and out of the hangar, it becomes
>>> evident to me that a side force on one end of the ski will give a big
>>> twisting moment and will probably damage the entire gear. So, my wish
>>> is that it would only bend the ski and not the gear. Does that make
>>> sense?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Michel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Skis for Kitfox's |
I've got a bunch of experience gas welding on building exhaust
headers back in my racing days, so that should help with the thin
stock, but certainly not with the 4130. Yes, I've been told that the
gas is best over the MIG, like you said, Dave.
Pics will be done, including self-portraits while the flame is
going...big show-off!
I once had an assignment for photo class that required shooting under
4 different light sources/color temperatures of light. One that I
used was gas welding...it was a really cool picture that showed a
spark shooting straight up, then jutting off at an angle, then
bursting like a roman candle...time exposure of course. I had to
really set the torch hot and burn the metal to do that, and any real
weldor would have caught the wrong welding technique, but the effect
was dramatic.
Lynn
On Dec 29, 2006, at 9:51 PM, dave wrote:
>
> <<....I'm gonna practice with both the MIG welder
> and the gas, to determine which I like best>>
>
> I will take oxy/acetylene over Mig even though our Kitfoxes are
> Mig welded.
> 035 wall is thin and best to do some joints like t joints and try
> to break them apart.
> See where weld or tube breaks. Also you can drill the weld -- if
> it too hard it will be hard to drill and most likely be brittle.
> you can normalize joints with a torch and with MIG your joints can
> cool too fast.
>
>
> Hope that helps .
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> PS get some pics for us on these wheel skis in the making .
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis for Kitfox's
>
>
>>
>> Makes sense to me, Michel...kinda like a fuse for the landing
>> gear. I've got the Grove gear on mine, which is supposed to be a
>> bit stronger than the tube gear, so I'm not sure whether this
>> will give under the same circumstances as the tube gear or not.
>>
>> Incidentally, I drove a couple hundred miles south into Ohio
>> today, and bought a tube notcher and a tube bending kit. When I
>> got home, my Spruce order was on the porch, which included my
>> 4130 tubing and gas welding rod....I'm starting my skis
>> tomorrow...YEEEEHAWWWW!
>> Ok, Lynn, calm down....I'm gonna practice with both the MIG
>> welder and the gas, to determine which I like best. I got some
>> advice from a welding instructor at Sun 'n' Fun last year on
>> which gas and type of wire to use with the MIG, and lo and
>> behold, that's exactly what I had on hand at home. I bought the
>> gas rod that Spruce claims is the best for 4130....if you can
>> believe them, so I've got some choices to play with.
>>
>> Lynn
>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 2:41 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>>
>>> <michel@online.no>
>>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 1:36 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>>> I was actually referring to your friend...Paul?...who welded
>>>> your skis.
>>>
>>> Yes, here is the story, Lynn. I got some good photos of wheel
>>> penetrating skis from a Norwegian Avid pilot. With the photos in
>>> the background, I went to make a technical drawing, at scale
>>> (scaling on the tyre diameter) of what I felt was a good
>>> reproduction of the Avid Flyer's skis. Then I asked my friend
>>> Paul, who has been a welder for 40 years, to make them for me,
>>> from the drawings and the photos. But first, I took him for a
>>> flight, we looked at the gear construction, the axis, etc. Then
>>> he made them.
>>> I even trusted them enough to go flying with me after the first
>>> trial that I have published on my web page. Incidentally, he is
>>> also the guy who welded my Jabiru engine mount. Those who have
>>> seen it say that it is a beautiful welding job.
>>> Should I hit a rock under the snow, I don't know what will give
>>> up first. But, from taking the plane in and out of the hangar,
>>> it becomes evident to me that a side force on one end of the ski
>>> will give a big twisting moment and will probably damage the
>>> entire gear. So, my wish is that it would only bend the ski and
>>> not the gear. Does that make sense?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Michel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Rotax 912-S flyers, What RPM do you look for on Climbout |
?
I have been reading the Rotax manual and it says the RPM limit is 5500 - 5800 for
only one minute, and continuous below 5500 RPM. Are you guys proping your
planes to takeoff and maximum rate of climb speed below 5500 RPM at full throttle
? Or are you seeing higher RPM's than that and pulling the power back in
the climb ?
Thanks,
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84411#84411
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: dead-stick topic |
Michel,
When I was in training it was considered risky to practice engine out
procedures by doing actual dead stick flight. Most of the training
flights were by flight schools and were done from tower controlled
airports. Possible dead stick practice accidents were enough of a
deterent to the schools considering they might be done by solo students
if taught by instructors.
I see no problem practicing them if you are allowed by the airport
authorities or have your own airstrip as long as safe procedures.are
followed. I intend to do them myself one day.
Rex
Snowy Colorado
Michel Verheughe wrote:
> On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:20 PM, dave wrote:
>
>> well why not do some stalls and take off the headset to hear the
>> sounds you described before and all i heard was the air leaks !!
>
>
> That would certainly be a good way to find out where the sound is
> coming from, Dave. However, I have a problem. One year ago, I was
> talking to this list about dead-stick landing and after I was told
> that I never tried it after doing it with my instructor, I was told
> that I should. Then I obeyed and I did, and I enjoyed it. In fact,
> each time I am alone and the weather is stable, I land dead-stick. A
> while ago, I told that to the Jabiru Engine list. There, I got the
> opposite reaction. I was told that it was dangerous to cut out a
> perfectly running engine and that I could try dead-stick with the
> engine at idle.
> Now, I am confused and I don't know if I should or I should not.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
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