Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:48 AM - Re: new kitfox2 (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:59 AM - Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement (Bob)
3. 06:24 AM - KitFox 2 (Mike)
4. 06:28 AM - cont.A65 (dwight purdy)
5. 06:44 AM - Vixen: Nose Dragger Towbar (FlyboyTR)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement (Lowell Fitt)
7. 07:42 AM - Re: dead-stick topic (FlyboyTR)
8. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: dead-stick topic (Aerobatics@aol.com)
9. 08:32 AM - Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement (kentk)
10. 09:16 AM - Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement (Joel Mapes)
11. 09:41 AM - Re: KitFox 2 (Don Pearsall)
12. 09:52 AM - Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement (jdmcbean)
13. 10:02 AM - Norwegian Stalls (was: dead-stick topic) (Michael Gibbs)
14. 10:13 AM - Re: KitFox 2 (Mike)
15. 11:20 AM - Re: kitfox2 new builder (skyflyte@comcast.net)
16. 12:43 PM - Rotax engines (jdmcbean)
17. 02:04 PM - Kitfox Model V for Sale (Grant Fluent)
18. 02:06 PM - Re: Rotax engines (dave)
19. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement (Lynn Matteson)
20. 02:49 PM - Re: Manual or electric trim? (nealscherm@comcast.net)
21. 02:58 PM - landing gear shock cord (pilotpat)
22. 03:03 PM - Re: Norwegian Stalls (Michel Verheughe)
23. 03:10 PM - Re: Vixen: Nose Dragger Towbar (Tom Jones)
24. 03:34 PM - Re: landing gear shock cord (Michel Verheughe)
25. 03:35 PM - Re: landing gear shock cord (Tom Jones)
26. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Manual or electric trim? (Noel Loveys)
27. 04:08 PM - Re: landing gear shock cord (Noel Loveys)
28. 04:25 PM - Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power. (wingnut)
29. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Manual or electric trim? (Alan Daniels)
30. 05:18 PM - Re: Re: Vixen: Nose Dragger Towbar (Alan Daniels)
31. 05:37 PM - Re: Model 4 engine swap (Lyle Persels)
32. 05:42 PM - Re: landing gear shock cord (dave)
33. 05:45 PM - Re: Norwegian Stalls (dave)
34. 05:46 PM - Re: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power. (dave)
35. 05:57 PM - Re: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power. (QSS)
36. 06:11 PM - Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement (kentk)
37. 07:02 PM - Re: landing gear shock cord (mike)
38. 07:36 PM - Re: Norwegian Stalls (Malcolmbru@AOL.COM)
39. 08:05 PM - Re: landing gear shock cord (ron schick)
40. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement (Mdkitfox@AOL.COM)
41. 09:53 PM - Re: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power. (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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On Jan 6, 2007, at 5:36 AM, kurt schrader wrote:
> Michel. Can you take Lynn's pics, reduce them and
> post them to the old Sportflight site?
Certainly, Sire!
Lynn, send them to me directly, thank you.
Michel
Jester to the court of one pope and two cardinals
do not archive (unless you are a list's sinner)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement |
It's an important part, not too hard to remake, and someday there will be a "next"
owner who may not know to check this on pre-flight. If your A&P or FAA inspector
see an example of workmanship like this, they'll start looking a lot closer,
too. Besides, when it does crack, probably at the second hole, do you
want to have to try to get it out once assembled? Easier to just re-make it now.
Tip for next time: use the file lengthwise along the edges, not across it,
and the edge will stay straight.
Bob
A&P
--------
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85828#85828
Message 3
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I have just purchased a Kitfox 2, SN 89, which was damaged in a
departure stall. The wings were badly damaged, while the fuselage
structure suffered only minor damage, along with the prop, which was
wood. It has a 532 installed. Does anyone know where I can get
plans, and perhaps parts for rebuilding the wing? The main front
spar appears to be a tube with some kind of I-beam inside. It will
need to be replaced.
I am also planning on putting airfoils on both the vertical and
horizontal stabs, and sealing the gap in the rudder and and elevator.
Mikey
Message 4
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Question: Is there a reason why I never see a Kitfox with an A65? My guess
would be no electric or bad power to weight. How about a c-85?
I recently picked up a model lll and would like to put a four stroke in
it. Have not measured the with of either. Can you tell me what needs to be
done in the way of cowlings? Anyone have pictures of there's ?
Thanks, dwight
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Vixen: Nose Dragger Towbar |
Our Vixen has a unique bracket configuration on the nose wheel for ground ops.
The builder also built a custom towbar that is simple and effective. However,
the brackets extend from below the wheel pant and then stick out like little
wings (where the towbar attaches). So far a very strong system...
Our problem is that we (90% of the time) usually work off of grass strips and here
in L.A. (lower Alabama) we have lots of rain, soft boggy runways/taxiways,
etc. When my nose wheel boggs a little the "wings" catch mother earth and start
digging in...then act like a plow! Not good! :(
I am getting ready to redesign the towbar system and would like to know what others
are using for their swiveling nose wheels. [Question]
Once this retro is complete, I would be willing to part with the existing brackets.
Its actually a neat system that is very effectiveit just doesnt do well
on soft muddy ground! I will take and post a couple of pictures after my next
trip to the airport.
Thanks,
Travis :)
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen
N-789DF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85841#85841
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement |
Thanks for the direct link to the image. First congratulations on your
choice of airplane - the best Kitfox ever in my opinion for all the things
Kitfoxes are designed to do.
My suggestion would be to replace the part. A taper on a fitting like that
is designed to spread the forces evenly to the end. By essentially cutting
a notch on this one it creates a stress riser which could result in a
premature failure.
Where are you? Tell us about your project.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "kentk" <kentk25@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 9:42 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement
>
>
> roncarolnikko(at)hotmail. wrote:
>> Kent please hit the attach button and show us the part. May or may not
>> be a
>> problem, but we like to over analyse. Ron NB Ore
>>
>
>
> Is the image not showing up for anyone but me? If that is the case, here
> is the link to the photo:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=3526
>
> Regards,
> Kent
>
> --------
> kentk25[at]yahoo
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85817#85817
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: dead-stick topic |
Just a short response/comment about dead stick landings. Of all major component
failures in your airplaneIll take an engine-outhands down! wing, elevator,
tail, etcfailsor at worst it chooses its own direction of travel away from the
plane all the piloting skill in the world isnt going to help, unless you have
a BRS, etc. I have always been a believer in being the PIC and being able to
fly the plane without the assistance of forward thrust. Dead stick landings
in a C-177 Cardinal were common practiceand actually quite fun. In the 90s we
shifted from GA to Quicksilvers and Challengers (about 2500+ hours). Here we
found people that had fly-ins with field events. Dead stick landings were our
specialtyalways! 9 out of 10 landings I could drop the wheels within 10 feet
of the linethe 1 out of 10 I fell short a few feet! Good stuff!
My CFI (1970) was a crazy WWII pilot. His stories of walking away from the crash
left a deep impression on me. I will try to quote something he said. If you
cant control your aircraft at MCA, with or without an engine, or put the #%&@
wheels where YOU want them, with or without an engine, or instantly respond
to an inflight emergencywhat gives you the right to think you can fly at 150
knots! Planes dont crash into the airthey crash into the @%#$ ground! Going
up in the only option you haveyoure coming down and youd #$% well better know
how to put your plane exactly where you want it I dont think I will ever forget
his words. may he RIP. :(
This diatribe is longer than I had planned. Sorry! However, I have always practiced
dead-stick landings, and we are now practicing them in our Kitfox Vixen.
During an emergency, time is what you usually dont have. Wasting it (time)
trying to figure out what you should do could easily be your killer! Always
have a plan, always FLY the planewith or without the engine! As my old CFI (Tommy)
said, Going up is optionalyoure coming down!
Travis :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen
N-789DF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85858#85858
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: dead-stick topic |
Well imagine the first time you practice a deadstick because the engine
really did quit.... that's scarey :-)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement |
lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Thanks for the direct link to the image. First congratulations on your
> choice of airplane - the best Kitfox ever in my opinion for all the things
> Kitfoxes are designed to do.
>
> My suggestion would be to replace the part. A taper on a fitting like that
> is designed to spread the forces evenly to the end. By essentially cutting
> a notch on this one it creates a stress riser which could result in a
> premature failure.
>
> Where are you? Tell us about your project.
>
> Lowell
>
> ---
Well, first of all, thank you everyone for the excellent advice. I really don't
want to use any inferior parts on my plane, but was also concerned about availability
of replacement parts.
Last year I aquired this KitFox Model 4-1200 from a friend who originally purchased
it back in '94. He had worked on the fuselage, but not much else. I live
in College Station, TX and have an ASEL Private Pilot License. My flight experience
is mostly Cessna 172 and 150s. I have some low wing hours, but prefer
the high wing. I have zero tail dragger experience.
So, at this point I am focused on building the wings. The kit did not include
the engine nacelle (nor anything FWF for that matter), so I am undecided as to
which powerplant to use and which prop arrangement is best. I am very much in
the research phase at this point.
Regards,
Kent
--------
kentk25[at]yahoo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85868#85868
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| Subject: | Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement |
Hi Kent,
I used the BlueSky spar inserts on my model 5 and am very pleased with the
results. I thought that if any one area of the aircraft should be over
designed the spar attach point was it. My aeronautical engineer son agreed.
Joel
Model 5 912uls
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
Message 11
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Mikey, it sounds like you have a big project ahead of you. Have you tried
contacting John McBean at http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/
He may have the plans and perhaps some parts.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:23 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: KitFox 2
I have just purchased a Kitfox 2, SN 89, which was damaged in a
departure stall. The wings were badly damaged, while the fuselage
structure suffered only minor damage, along with the prop, which was
wood. It has a 532 installed. Does anyone know where I can get
plans, and perhaps parts for rebuilding the wing? The main front
spar appears to be a tube with some kind of I-beam inside. It will
need to be replaced.
I am also planning on putting airfoils on both the vertical and
horizontal stabs, and sealing the gap in the rudder and and elevator.
Mikey
Message 12
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| Subject: | Rear spar attach reinforcement |
Regarding Spar Attach Reinforcement,
Not to say one way is better then another.. but remember that the aircraft
was load tested and flight tested with these reinforcements. The
reinforcements didn't fail and to date there has not been an in-flight
structural failure of a Kitfox..
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joel Mapes
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rear spar attach reinforcement
Hi Kent,
I used the BlueSky spar inserts on my model 5 and am very pleased with the
results. I thought that if any one area of the aircraft should be over
designed the spar attach point was it. My aeronautical engineer son agreed.
Joel
Model 5 912uls
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
--
11:11 AM
--
11:11 AM
Message 13
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| Subject: | Norwegian Stalls (was: dead-stick topic) |
>First sign of a Norwegian stall? Your helmit sticks to the skylight...
I think we need a picture of Michel in his cockpit with his Viking
helmet on. :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Do not archive.
Message 14
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I just talked to John, and he was extremely helpful! He will be
providing a copy of the original instruction manual, which should be
very helpful. He also answered several questions I had about
increasing the height of the vertical stabilizer and rudder, as well
as installing an airfoil on the horizontal and vertical surfaces.
Parts-wise, it appears as though some of the parts that will be hard
for me to fabricate may be available.
Mikey
On Jan 6, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Don Pearsall wrote:
> <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Mikey, it sounds like you have a big project ahead of you. Have you
> tried
> contacting John McBean at http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/
>
> He may have the plans and perhaps some parts.
>
>
> Don Pearsall
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:23 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: KitFox 2
>
>
> I have just purchased a Kitfox 2, SN 89, which was damaged in a
> departure stall. The wings were badly damaged, while the fuselage
> structure suffered only minor damage, along with the prop, which was
> wood. It has a 532 installed. Does anyone know where I can get
> plans, and perhaps parts for rebuilding the wing? The main front
> spar appears to be a tube with some kind of I-beam inside. It will
> need to be replaced.
>
> I am also planning on putting airfoils on both the vertical and
> horizontal stabs, and sealing the gap in the rudder and and elevator.
>
> Mikey
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | kitfox2 new builder |
I had this problem many years ago, and after a lot of adjustments, i found the
problem. The leather washer had compressed a bit with use, and adjusting the
bolt holding the handle to the washer/welded on washer didn't work. The metal
pieces were hiting each other before the leather washer could do its job. A thicker
leather washer cured the problem.
Mike Cannon
Model II 490MC
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Frank Miles" <f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
Jerry,
It is held in place by friction. You have to tighten the control handle until
in flight air pressure will no longer move it. Looks like a poor system but it
does work.
Frank
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jerry evans
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: kitfox2 new builder
What have you all done with the flap controller I'm playing around with it today
and it seems to be loose ,does it hold when you put on flaps or do you have
to hold it up? Mine has the leather in it, but seems like it should have clicks
or something, any advise?
Jerry Evans
kitfox 555
--
1:34 PM
--
1:34 PM
<html><body>
<DIV>I had this problem many years ago, and after a lot of adjustments, i found
the problem. The leather washer had compressed a bit with use, and adjusting
the bolt holding the handle to the washer/welded on washer didn't work.
The metal pieces were hiting each other before the leather washer could do its
job. A thicker leather washer cured the problem.</DIV>
<DIV>Mike Cannon</DIV>
<DIV>Model II 490MC</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Frank Miles"
<f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net> <BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jerry,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> It is held in place by friction. You
have to tighten the control handle until in flight air pressure will no longer
move it. Looks like a poor system but it does work.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Frank<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT face="Times
New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On</SPAN></B></st1:PersonName><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"> Behalf Of </SPAN></B>jerry evans<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, January 05, 2007 8:59 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">kitfox-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Kitfox-List: kitfox2 new builder</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
12pt">What have you all done with the flap controller I'm playing around with
it today and it seems to be loose ,does it hold when you put on flaps or
do you have to hold it up? Mine has the leather in it, but seems like
it should have clicks or something, any advise?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>Jerry Evans <BR>kitfox 555<IMG id=_x0000_i1025 height=18 src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif" width=18> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; o: p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
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face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR:
black; browse: p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
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size=2 color=black face='Courier New'><span style=" font-size:10.0pt;color:black;="================<o:p"></SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE><B><FONT
face="Courier
New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; bsp: ; NEW:
p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
size=2 color=black face='Courier New'><span style=" font-size:10.0pt;color:black; Forums!<o:p Web></SPAN></FONT></B></PRE><PRE><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; href: 'http://forums.matronics.com'>http://forums.matronics.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font
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Message 16
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Just a quick note.. we have been notified of a Rotax Price increase
effective Feb 1st . We are placing an engine order on the 22nd of this
month if anyone is interested give us a shout.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
Message 17
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| Subject: | Kitfox Model V for Sale |
Hello List Members,
I thought I would pass along some info that I
received about a Kitfox Model V for sale in South
Dakota See the attached photo.
Grant Fluent
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax engines |
John , The talk is 8% increase by Rotax.
Can you confirm ?
Also what is the cost for Douglas 8 " wheels with the alum tigged on to
attach the rotor ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: jdmcbean
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax engines
Just a quick note.. we have been notified of a Rotax Price increase
effective Feb 1st . We are placing an engine order on the 22nd of this
month if anyone is interested give us a shout.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement |
I also bought a IV from Texas, without engine or cowl. I settled on a
2200 Jabiru engine and Skyfox cowl after doing a lot of engine
research. I'm very well satisfied with the way mine turned out, and
its performance, and ease of operation.
Lynn
Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:31 AM, kentk wrote:
>
>
> lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> Thanks for the direct link to the image. First congratulations on
>> your
>> choice of airplane - the best Kitfox ever in my opinion for all
>> the things
>> Kitfoxes are designed to do.
>>
>> My suggestion would be to replace the part. A taper on a fitting
>> like that
>> is designed to spread the forces evenly to the end. By
>> essentially cutting
>> a notch on this one it creates a stress riser which could result in a
>> premature failure.
>>
>> Where are you? Tell us about your project.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>> ---
>
>
> Well, first of all, thank you everyone for the excellent advice. I
> really don't want to use any inferior parts on my plane, but was
> also concerned about availability of replacement parts.
>
> Last year I aquired this KitFox Model 4-1200 from a friend who
> originally purchased it back in '94. He had worked on the
> fuselage, but not much else. I live in College Station, TX and
> have an ASEL Private Pilot License. My flight experience is mostly
> Cessna 172 and 150s. I have some low wing hours, but prefer the
> high wing. I have zero tail dragger experience.
>
> So, at this point I am focused on building the wings. The kit did
> not include the engine nacelle (nor anything FWF for that matter),
> so I am undecided as to which powerplant to use and which prop
> arrangement is best. I am very much in the research phase at this
> point.
>
> Regards,
> Kent
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric trim? |
Hey All,
I am working on the manual trim on my series 7 and am not particularly satisfied
with the arrangement. I had a Vixen before and I liked the electric trim it
used. I am at a point were I could go with either one.
Any sugesstions or recomendations? I know there was a problem with the early actuators
breaking, but did anyone find one that was satisfactory?
All opinions appreciated,
Neal
<html><body>
<DIV>Hey All,</DIV>
<DIV>I am working on the manual trim on my series 7 and am not particularly satisfied
with the arrangement. I had a Vixen before and I liked the electric trim
it used. I am at a point were I could go with either one.</DIV>
<DIV>Any sugesstions or recomendations? I know there was a problem with the early
actuators breaking, but did anyone find one that was satisfactory? </DIV>
<DIV>All opinions appreciated,</DIV>
<DIV>Neal</DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
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Message 21
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| Subject: | landing gear shock cord |
Hi all, been watching the postings for a month or so now and am new at this.
I have a classic iv kitfox (curently working on) and am doing the bungee cord
landing gear. The book says 6 wraps , but I can only get Five, Is there some
special tool or method or someone with special tips on how to do this in order
to get six wraps? Thanks in advance
or does anyone have a Grove landing system , they want to get rid of and make it
easy?
pilotpat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85913#85913
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Norwegian Stalls |
On Jan 6, 2007, at 7:02 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
> I think we need a picture of Michel in his cockpit with his Viking
> helmet on. :-)
Ok, I will provide that.
Meanwhile, I went flying today, did some stalls (mush down) and
listened to 'the sound.'
Unfortunately, I'll need to have someone else to fly the plane, in
order to find the cause but, so far, I wonder if it is not my elevator.
But first, a question: Is this correct?: When we stall gently (mush
down), the plane starts stalling the wings first then, if we keep the
stick in the stomach, and provided we get enough elevator authority to
get the nose up and the speed down, the horizontal stab (and the
elevator) will stall too, and the nose will drop.
If this is correct, then I think the noise I experience is happening
when the horizontal stab stalls and the elevator shakes.
Am I getting anywhere?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Vixen: Nose Dragger Towbar |
The "How to Fly a Kitfox" book says the Vixen will "Follow you around like a puppy
if you pull it by the prop hub. it seems to me a handle on the rear of the
fuselage would make it easy to push around on the ground.
I put some wheels on a scoop shovel and I just scoop up the tail wheel of my classic
4 with and pull it around even with the wings folded. That might work on
a nose wheel too.
Tom Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85917#85917
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear shock cord |
On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:57 PM, pilotpat wrote:
> The book says 6 wraps , but I can only get Five
Hello Pilotpat,
You will certainly get many advice from this list, as some of us has
managed to do it properly and apparently without too much effort.
Others, like me, had a hell of a time working this, as I replaced mine
last summer. That made me wonder: Are we all working with bungees of
the same length? My new ones were quite shorter than the ones I removed
after 13 years of good service. I attributed that to natural
stretching. But ... was it really?
Anyway, it's certainly a two man's job, a lot of sweat, and a vise
wrench to hold the bungee as you take a new turn. How are your end
fitting? Loops or hooks? When I pulled hard the last turn of the latter
(cone spring hook), it came loose. So I went for the loop type.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear shock cord |
Pat
Yes, six wraps are needed. The trick is to not loose any slack you gained on one
wrap while making the next wrap. There are several ways to do it and I suspect
you will get some more replys soon.
I wrapped up the jaws of my waterpump plires with electrical tape so as not to
damage the cord. I worked from under neath the plane and held each wrap tight
in place with the pliers with one hand while I fed the cord around the truss
and pulled the next wrap tight with the other hand.
Tom Jones
Classic 4
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85920#85920
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric trim? |
I take it you are talking about elevator trim.
There are several GA planes some what similar to the 'Fox that use
manual
trim tabs... The Champ and Super Cub come to mind. They just use a
push
pull cable similar to a throttle cable only much lighter to adjust the
tab
by means of a bell crank on the tab itself.
Electric trim is a nice selling point but personally I consider it
unnecessary complication.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nealscherm@comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 7:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Manual or electric trim?
Hey All,
I am working on the manual trim on my series 7 and am not particularly
satisfied with the arrangement. I had a Vixen before and I liked the
electric trim it used. I am at a point were I could go with either one.
Any sugesstions or recomendations? I know there was a problem with the
early
actuators breaking, but did anyone find one that was satisfactory?
All opinions appreciated,
Neal
Message 27
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| Subject: | landing gear shock cord |
Install floats... Save yourself scraped knuckles and a lot of choice four
letter words. There have been some good ideas posted here over the last
year. Some include lubricating the posts you wrap the bungee around with
baby oil...I think some one else suggested talcum powder on the bungee
itself.
The last two years I put mine on wheels and never got the chance to fly so
this year it's going to over winter on the pontoons.
Still not a sign of ice on the bay. Five years ago there would have been
Ski-Doos everywhere...Thirty years ago there would have been few Ski-Doos
but there would have been a lot of Land Rovers every where.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pilotpat
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 7:27 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: landing gear shock cord
>
>
>
> Hi all, been watching the postings for a month or so now and
> am new at this. I have a classic iv kitfox (curently working
> on) and am doing the bungee cord landing gear. The book says
> 6 wraps , but I can only get Five, Is there some special
> tool or method or someone with special tips on how to do this
> in order to get six wraps? Thanks in advance
>
> or does anyone have a Grove landing system , they want to get
> rid of and make it easy?
>
> pilotpat
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85913#85913
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power. |
I'm adding a PDA GPS to my Model 4 and I'm kind of stuck on how to wire power to
the PDA. I have a cigarette lighter adapter for the PDA but I don't really have
a good place for a cigarette lighter plug in my panel (not to mention how
ugly it would look). Ideally, I'd like to do some kind of permanent setup with
the PDA's power cable, tucked and tie wrapped neatly into the rest of the harness.
Problem is, the PDA is 5V so I can't just wire it into the buss. I suppose
that I can hack the lighter adapter and tie wrap it to the frame somewhere
behind the panel but Id like something a little more aircraft quality.
I know there are other PDA users out there so I was wondering if someone had a
suggestion.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85932#85932
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| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric trim? |
I have built and flown with both trim systems. The 7 trim works well,
but requires a bit more back pressure due to the weight and mechanism.
One of John's flap interlink systems takes care of that if it is a
problem. The manual system is faster to use, but can be a little hard to
fine tune the trim in flight. There is a little friction in the system,
but once you get used to it you will really like it. The electric works
great also. Weight is about the same, manual is a little more complex to
install. On the manual system I have found that the front adjustment
that replaces the electric ram on the manual system needs to be adjusted
to the short end of the adjustment range for best and fastest flight. We
did all sorts of test to see where the trim tab was in relation to the
elevator. The simplest way to quick check it is to put a piece of tape
next to the trim lever and mark were it is in normal cruise flight. Then
when back on the ground return the trim lever to were you marked it and
then hold the elevator to neutral and see were the tab is. You will want
to make changes and see were you like it best. This is part of that 40
hour test thing. Bottom line for me is that both trim systems are good.
I would use whichever system I had and would be happy with it. If you
need an elevator for the electric system I have a spare.
nealscherm@comcast.net wrote:
> Hey All,
> I am working on the manual trim on my series 7 and am not particularly
> satisfied with the arrangement. I had a Vixen before and I liked the
> electric trim it used. I am at a point were I could go with either one.
> Any sugesstions or recomendations? I know there was a problem with the
> early actuators breaking, but did anyone find one that was satisfactory?
> All opinions appreciated,
> Neal
> *
>
>
> *
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Vixen: Nose Dragger Towbar |
If I am going to push a Vixen backwards I need a tow bar. Do NOT push
down on the horizontal stab as you risk damage to the electric trim, and
the Vixen does not have a handle back there. What I did was modify the
front axle so that I could use a modified standard collapsible tow bar.
I cut the lugs off the tow bar and welded on smaller rods that would go
inside the kitfox axle, then drilled the axle nuts and the yoke so I
could safety wire the nuts and do away with the cotter pins that
prevented the 1/2 inch rods from going inside the axle. For me it is a
must have to steer the plane while backing into the hangar to get it
around other planes. Going forward is simple.
Tom Jones wrote:
>
> The "How to Fly a Kitfox" book says the Vixen will "Follow you around like a
puppy if you pull it by the prop hub. it seems to me a handle on the rear of
the fuselage would make it easy to push around on the ground.
>
> I put some wheels on a scoop shovel and I just scoop up the tail wheel of my
classic 4 with and pull it around even with the wings folded. That might work
on a nose wheel too.
> Tom Jones
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85917#85917
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Model 4 engine swap |
Thanks to all who responded to my question about the necessity for
FAA blessing my swap from a 912 UL to a 912 ULS. I'll try to respond
to each question or comment:
Jimmie B.: No I didn't have any concerns about the engine at
450
hours. Everything I know about the engine suggests that it's
extremely reliable and trouble free and is likely to perform well far
beyond the recommended 1200 hour TBO. I was a bit tired of tinkering
with the characteristic low rpm roughness, and I wanted to see what
the increased horsepower would do for the already excellent
performance. I'm not aware of any expensive repairs that are
frequently encountered in higher time 912 UL engines.
Jacques V.: Required mods are rather minimal. While the engine
mount
dimensions are identical, it was necessary to replace the engine
mount with a new one with greater wall thickness in the tubing and a
couple more diagonal braces. The deeper oil tank along with changed
fittings might give you some trouble. I opted to use the oil tank
from the old UL rather than modify the cowl and I also found it
advantageous to use different oil fittings in a couple of places.
Because of my instrumentation, I used the old temperature senders
rather than the ones provided with the engine. I had a Warp Drive 70"
three-bladed prop. I had to buy a new hub and mounting hardware to
fit the revised mounting dimensions. Warp Drive very slightly
modified the blade hubs and checked and refurbished the blades at no
charge. Good people! Then there were a couple of minor electrical
changes and that's about it. John McBean is very helpful with specifics.
Finally, with regard to FAA involvement. My FAA registration
does
list the engine type as Rotax (all). The restrictions on my
airworthiness certificate state that in case of changes, I need only
comply with FAR Part 43, Appendix 1. Appendix 1, as I read it,
defines powerplant major alterations relating to engine alterations,
but not to an engine change. Presumably changing one engine for an
identical engine would not constitute a powerplant major alteration.
Changing from powerplant to another almost identical powerplant when
both are classified identically in the FAA registration=97well that's
not specifically spelled out and may be subject to varying
interpretations by different FSDOs. I'll probably make a call and
discuss it with the local office.
Thanks to all for your help and suggestions.
Lyle
On 01 4, 07, at 9:55 AM, Jimmie Blackwell wrote:
> Lyle
>
> I am considering changing my 912UL out for a Jabiru, so would sure
> like to know how this turns out.
>
> My 912UL does not have quiet as many hours as yours but was
> wondering if you were starting to have some concerns about it. My
> thought is to sell my 912 UL before it starts developing expensive
> problems.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jimmie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyle Persels" <>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 7:44 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 4 engine swap
>
>
>>
>> I'm nearing completion of replacement of the Rotax 912 UL with a
>> 912 ULS in my Model 4. Does this constitute a major change that
>> will require a new FAA inspection, signoff, certificate, and test
>> period? Or can I just go fly?
>>
>> Oh, by the way, my old 912 UL with about 440 hours is for sale.
>> No price set. What's it worth?
>>
>> Lyle Persels
>>
===========
===========
===========
>>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear shock cord |
When I took off my floats this year and put tube gear back on, I used 5
wraps only. It sits a little low on one side now but it flys fine. If I
recall one bungee was 60 inches and the other 64 inches. They are Mil spec
bungees and seem ok here. All these Kitfox movies were shot with the 5
wraps only http://www.cfisher.com 3 rd link on left side.
I have used 6 before and they are stiffer but the 5 does seem to work. I
have flown with me 210 lbs and another 210 pounder and full fuel and never
noticed the bungees to be much different other than a softer ride but
certainly not mushy. I have no idea what the proper length of the bungees is
supposed to be and maybe mine are too short ?
Good Luck and get a buddy to help it will make it allot easier.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "pilotpat" <pkelly20@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:57 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: landing gear shock cord
>
> Hi all, been watching the postings for a month or so now and am new at
> this. I have a classic iv kitfox (curently working on) and am doing the
> bungee cord landing gear. The book says 6 wraps , but I can only get
> Five, Is there some special tool or method or someone with special tips
> on how to do this in order to get six wraps? Thanks in advance
>
> or does anyone have a Grove landing system , they want to get rid of and
> make it easy?
>
> pilotpat
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85913#85913
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Norwegian Stalls |
Michel
Did you get that post i sent in on this earlier ? Same thing bascially
that I found was a thud from the rear.
- Disturbed air from the wing hitting the horiz stab ?
I only heard this while doing deadstick stalls and headset off.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Norwegian Stalls
>
> On Jan 6, 2007, at 7:02 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
>> I think we need a picture of Michel in his cockpit with his Viking helmet
>> on. :-)
>
> Ok, I will provide that.
> Meanwhile, I went flying today, did some stalls (mush down) and listened
> to 'the sound.'
> Unfortunately, I'll need to have someone else to fly the plane, in order
> to find the cause but, so far, I wonder if it is not my elevator. But
> first, a question: Is this correct?: When we stall gently (mush down), the
> plane starts stalling the wings first then, if we keep the stick in the
> stomach, and provided we get enough elevator authority to get the nose up
> and the speed down, the horizontal stab (and the elevator) will stall too,
> and the nose will drop.
> If this is correct, then I think the noise I experience is happening when
> the horizontal stab stalls and the elevator shakes.
> Am I getting anywhere?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power. |
I have a 4 way cig adapter under dash on right side and the adapters plug
into that for Intercom, radio and GPS....
the Adapter is hard wired into master.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power.
I'm adding a PDA GPS to my Model 4 and I'm kind of stuck on how to wire
power to the PDA. I have a cigarette lighter adapter for the PDA but I don't
really have a good place for a cigarette lighter plug in my panel (not to
mention how ugly it would look). Ideally, I'd like to do some kind of
permanent setup with the PDA's power cable, tucked and tie wrapped neatly
into the rest of the harness. Problem is, the PDA is 5V so I can't just wire
it into the buss. I suppose that I can hack the lighter adapter and tie wrap
it to the frame somewhere behind the panel but I?Td like something a little
more ?~aircraft?T quality.
I know there are other PDA users out there so I was wondering if someone had
a suggestion.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85932#85932
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power. |
I have the Garmin iQue and had similar issues to yourself. In the end I
fitted the lighter in behind the dash and fed the supply wire out to the
docking station through a small hole in the dash. Looks OK and is a
permanent fixture. I can use the lighter for other things such as air
compressors, lights etc when camping. Its a good compromise.
Regards
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 10:23 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power.
I'm adding a PDA GPS to my Model 4 and I'm kind of stuck on how to wire
power to the PDA. I have a cigarette lighter adapter for the PDA but I don't
really have a good place for a cigarette lighter plug in my panel (not to
mention how ugly it would look). Ideally, I'd like to do some kind of
permanent setup with the PDA's power cable, tucked and tie wrapped neatly
into the rest of the harness. Problem is, the PDA is 5V so I can't just wire
it into the buss. I suppose that I can hack the lighter adapter and tie wrap
it to the frame somewhere behind the panel but I?Td like something a little
more ?~aircraft?T quality.
I know there are other PDA users out there so I was wondering if someone had
a suggestion.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85932#85932
--
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement |
Lynn Matteson wrote:
> I also bought a IV from Texas, without engine or cowl. I settled on a 2200 Jabiru
engine and Skyfox cowl after doing a lot of engine research. I'm very well
satisfied with the way mine turned out, and its performance, and ease of operation.
>
> Lynn
> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200
>
>
Lynn,
Do you know if anyone has documented the performance of various engines vs. various
prop cominations? It would really be nice to help the homebuilder choose
which configuration will most likely suit their aircraft and performance preferences.
I suspect that such an animal does not exist, unless the EAA might have
something along those lines.
Regards,
Kent
--------
kentk25[at]yahoo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85957#85957
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear shock cord |
If you use tie wraps to hold each wrap and cut them when you have all six wraps.
I was in the plane and a friend was below . The person below would hold the
tension and I would tie the tie wrap and then repeat process. Takes less than
a 1/2 hour to do both. Good luck. Mike
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 14:57:10 -0800, pilotpat wrote
>
> Hi all, been watching the postings for a month or so now and am new at this.
I have a classic iv kitfox (curently working on) and am doing the bungee cord
landing gear. The book says 6 wraps , but I can only get Five, Is there some special
tool or method or someone with special tips on how to do this in order
to get six wraps? Thanks in advance
>
> or does anyone have a Grove landing system , they want to get rid of and make
it easy?
>
> pilotpat
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85913#85913
>
Mike Gibbard
REO Bellaire
7953 W old State Rd Central Lake
231-544-5241 Home Office
231-676-3788 Cell Phone
231-544-5015 or 231-533-6114
mike@mikegibbard.com
http://www.mikegibbard.com
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Norwegian Stalls |
every time I drink hot chocolate I get a sharp pain in my eye??
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: landing gear shock cord |
Jeez my book says seven! It's hard as a rock and a pain to do. One wrap
then wedge, next wrap then move wedge, next wrap move wedge, etc... Ron NB
Ore
>From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: landing gear shock cord
>Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:41:37 -0500
>
>
>When I took off my floats this year and put tube gear back on, I used 5
>wraps only. It sits a little low on one side now but it flys fine. If I
>recall one bungee was 60 inches and the other 64 inches. They are Mil spec
>bungees and seem ok here. All these Kitfox movies were shot with the 5
>wraps only http://www.cfisher.com 3 rd link on left side.
>
>I have used 6 before and they are stiffer but the 5 does seem to work. I
>have flown with me 210 lbs and another 210 pounder and full fuel and never
>noticed the bungees to be much different other than a softer ride but
>certainly not mushy. I have no idea what the proper length of the bungees
>is supposed to be and maybe mine are too short ?
>
>
>Good Luck and get a buddy to help it will make it allot easier.
>
>
>Dave
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "pilotpat" <pkelly20@comcast.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:57 PM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: landing gear shock cord
>
>
>>
>>Hi all, been watching the postings for a month or so now and am new at
>>this. I have a classic iv kitfox (curently working on) and am doing the
>>bungee cord landing gear. The book says 6 wraps , but I can only get
>>Five, Is there some special tool or method or someone with special tips
>>on how to do this in order to get six wraps? Thanks in advance
>>
>>or does anyone have a Grove landing system , they want to get rid of and
>>make it easy?
>>
>>pilotpat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85913#85913
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement |
Kent,
After viewing the picture I would recommend remaking the attach bracket.
While the one you made would 'probably' be okay, why take a chance. They're
cheap parts and easier to do now rather than later. I used the 'cuff' thinking
they would be an improvement, but the original design has never been an
issue. I have a model V and probably have the original spar reinforcement pieces,
but I recently moved and finding them may take a while. If you want them
(and I can find them) they're yours, no charge. Does anyone know if the Series
V(1400 lbs version) part is the same as the model IV part?
Rick
Series V Speedster - N39RW
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power. |
Just a thought here. This may not be significant for you. There was a post
in the Lancair list some time ago about using PDAs and Laptops in airplanes.
It seems that if the memory is hard drive based, there isn't enough air
pressure to keep the read/write arm on the hard drive from coming in contact
with the drive disk above about 10,000 ft. Several guys reported disk
crashes - destroyed the disk - in their personal experience.
I found that an IPOD that I intended to use to record the sometimes crazy
air to air talk in our group trips would crash predictably on every trip We
were often at or above 10,000 ft.. The stated altitude limit is 10,000 ft.
and is a hard drive problem. If your PDA has solid State memory or if your
not flying in the Western third of the US - probably no problem. Most Ipod
users will find that after a return to a lower altitude, the thing works
normally again.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:23 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Question for PDA GPS users: Hooking up power.
>
> I'm adding a PDA GPS to my Model 4 and I'm kind of stuck on how to wire
> power to the PDA. I have a cigarette lighter adapter for the PDA but I
> don't really have a good place for a cigarette lighter plug in my panel
> (not to mention how ugly it would look). Ideally, I'd like to do some kind
> of permanent setup with the PDA's power cable, tucked and tie wrapped
> neatly into the rest of the harness. Problem is, the PDA is 5V so I can't
> just wire it into the buss. I suppose that I can hack the lighter adapter
> and tie wrap it to the frame somewhere behind the panel but I?Td like
> something a little more ?~aircraft?T quality.
>
> I know there are other PDA users out there so I was wondering if someone
> had a suggestion.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85932#85932
>
>
>
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