---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/15/07: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Lesson Learned Hand prop (dave) 2. 05:56 AM - Lesson Learned (Dee Young) 3. 06:09 AM - Re: Lesson Learned Hand prop (Michel Verheughe) 4. 06:35 AM - Re: Lesson Learned Hand prop (Noel Loveys) 5. 07:09 AM - Re: Weight (Rexinator) 6. 08:06 AM - Re: Lesson Learned (Randy Daughenbaugh) 7. 08:29 AM - Skis on EBAY (dave) 8. 09:17 AM - Re: Weight (Marco Menezes) 9. 09:53 AM - Re: Weight (John) 10. 09:59 AM - Re: Lesson Learned Hand prop (dave) 11. 10:20 AM - Desert Fox Fly-In (Guy Buchanan) 12. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Weight WOW (dave) 13. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: Weight (john perry) 14. 10:48 AM - Re: HKS engines (Mnflyer) 15. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Weight WOW (debrun26@juno.com) 16. 11:27 AM - Re: Lesson Learned Hand prop (Michel Verheughe) 17. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: HKS engines (Noel Loveys) 18. 02:21 PM - Re: Lesson Learned Hand prop (Noel Loveys) 19. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: HKS engines (dave) 20. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: HKS engines (Lowell Fitt) 21. 03:59 PM - Weight (Mike) 22. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews (Rex Shaw) 23. 04:22 PM - Looking for Member (Jimmie Blackwell) 24. 04:34 PM - charging problem (369PL) 25. 04:37 PM - Re: Looking for Member (dave) 26. 04:38 PM - Re: HKS engines (Mnflyer) 27. 04:48 PM - Re: charging problem (Mnflyer) 28. 05:17 PM - Re: Re: HKS engines (edygert@charter.net) 29. 05:42 PM - Re: HKS engines (Mnflyer) 30. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: HKS engines (Lowell Fitt) 31. 06:08 PM - Re: Lesson Learned Hand prop (Jerry Liles) 32. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: HKS engines:VW (ron schick) 33. 07:18 PM - Re: header tank (dcsfoto) 34. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: HKS engines (Noel Loveys) 35. 09:07 PM - Re: charging problem (Noel Loveys) 36. 09:14 PM - Re: Re: HKS engines (Noel Loveys) 37. 09:26 PM - Re: Lesson Learned Hand prop (Noel Loveys) 38. 09:36 PM - Re: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews (john perry) 39. 11:26 PM - Re: Lesson Learned (John Allen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:43 AM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop David, Great report and luckily you are ok . YES !! Always treat props as live, as you found out a loose ground connection is all it takes. I routinely hand prop a 582 and 503 near daily . I think most engines can be hand proped. One bonus of a 2 stroke on a Kitfox is that you can prop from left side holding onto door frame or ona 912 from the right side with full access to the controls. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Estapa" Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:15 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned > > > This afternoon while working on my 5 with a 912 S I learned a Valuable > LESSON. My engine has been running extremely rough. (Only has just a > little over a hour on it.) I manually balanced carbs and did not help. > Tried pneumatically balancing carbs and engine was running so rough I > could not get the screw driver on the idle stop screws. We decided to > shut down and try turning screws with engine off to see if we could get > it close enough to try with engine running. When trying to restart the > battery final gave up. After charging for 45 minutes we were ready to try > again. My buddy in the cockpit said "why don't you pull it through a > couple of times to save battery (to pull fuel into the engine). Master > off, ignition switch off, and kill switches off. ( I had earlier in the > day pulled the prop through about 30 blades to burp the engine). I pulled > one blade when the engine caught with everything off. It probably only > ran for 2-3 seconds. The second blade brushed my nuckles. Fortunately I > still have all my body parts. Further investigation revealed that a wire > had come out of a connector on the ignition module and one ignition > system was not grounding. Fixed that, balanced carbs and now she is > smooth as silk. Sorry to be so long winded, but I thought this was > important. DON" EVER LET ANYONE CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU CAN'T PULL A GEARED > ROTAX ENGINE FAST ENOUGH TO CREATE SPARK. From now on I will remember my > training and consider the ignition live at all time when around the prop. > Next time I burp it I will do so as if I'm propping a non starter > airplane. Will take longer, but safer. This thing might fly real soon. > > David Estapa > Woodstock, GA > S5TD, N97DE > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:23 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned When doing my run up I check the right mag, the left mag, then shut down both mags. This is an easy check to help identify a problem. Dee Young Model II Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:01 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop > From: dave [dave@cfisher.com] > I think most engines can be hand proped. If you can spin the prop over 300 RPM, you can start a Jabiru ... yes. :-) Mind you, I wish I could. My marine engines have always been of the type with a hand starter in addition to the battery; I've never trusted electricity at sea. If I could hand prop my Kitfox, I would do it as I've learnt: A three men's job. One in the cockpit, the 'one-hand starter,' and the 'retainer.' Isn't that the 'military and safe way' to do it? Cheers, Michel do not archive
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:37 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop When working on GA engines I always use a clip lead to ground the p-terminal right on the mag. With the Rotax 582 in my own plane I always treat it as if it was primed to go. So far I've been lucky with that. One idea would be to remove the spark plug leads. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:40 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop > > > > David, > > Great report and luckily you are ok . > YES !! Always treat props as live, as you found out a loose ground > connection is all it takes. > I routinely hand prop a 582 and 503 near daily . > I think most engines can be hand proped. > One bonus of a 2 stroke on a Kitfox is that you can prop from > left side > holding onto door frame or ona 912 from the right side with > full access to > the controls. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Estapa" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 8:15 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned > > > > > > > > This afternoon while working on my 5 with a 912 S I learned > a Valuable > > LESSON. My engine has been running extremely rough. (Only has just a > > little over a hour on it.) I manually balanced carbs and > did not help. > > Tried pneumatically balancing carbs and engine was running > so rough I > > could not get the screw driver on the idle stop screws. We > decided to > > shut down and try turning screws with engine off to see if > we could get > > it close enough to try with engine running. When trying to > restart the > > battery final gave up. After charging for 45 minutes we > were ready to try > > again. My buddy in the cockpit said "why don't you pull it through a > > couple of times to save battery (to pull fuel into the > engine). Master > > off, ignition switch off, and kill switches off. ( I had > earlier in the > > day pulled the prop through about 30 blades to burp the > engine). I pulled > > one blade when the engine caught with everything off. It > probably only > > ran for 2-3 seconds. The second blade brushed my nuckles. > Fortunately I > > still have all my body parts. Further investigation > revealed that a wire > > had come out of a connector on the ignition module and one ignition > > system was not grounding. Fixed that, balanced carbs and now she is > > smooth as silk. Sorry to be so long winded, but I thought this was > > important. DON" EVER LET ANYONE CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU CAN'T > PULL A GEARED > > ROTAX ENGINE FAST ENOUGH TO CREATE SPARK. From now on I > will remember my > > training and consider the ignition live at all time when > around the prop. > > Next time I burp it I will do so as if I'm propping a non starter > > airplane. Will take longer, but safer. This thing might fly > real soon. > > > > David Estapa > > Woodstock, GA > > S5TD, N97DE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:12 AM PST US From: Rexinator Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Weight My M2 shows 543 empty on the data plate. Two 13 gal. wing tanks, one 2 gal. header behind seat, starter battery, 582 dual carb, gsc 3 blade grnd adj, c-box. Rex Hefferan Colorado N740GP ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:29 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned I too will be much more careful pushing the oil into the tank to check level prior to starting. I do do the mag check every flight. Thanks David! Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Daniels Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:26 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Holy C*** I could have been killed doing what I have been doing. I had understood that it was impossible to get a spark from that system by hand. Sure am happy you were not hurt. David Estapa wrote: > > > This afternoon while working on my 5 with a 912 S I learned a Valuable > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:45 AM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis on EBAY what will they sell for ? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item 0068252947&fromMakeTrack=true Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:05 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned > > > I too will be much more careful pushing the oil into the tank to check > level > prior to starting. I do do the mag check every flight. > > Thanks David! > > Randy > > . > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Daniels > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:26 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned > > > Holy C*** I could have been killed doing what I have been doing. I had > understood that it was impossible to get a spark from that system by > hand. Sure am happy you were not hurt. > > David Estapa wrote: >> >> >> This afternoon while working on my 5 with a 912 S I learned a Valuable >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:17 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Weight Hi Glenn. My Model 2 is also a little heavy at 535# per the AW certificate. Since initial wt and balance calcs, I've added a cargo pod and a few other odds and ends. I'm guessing it's about 550 now. Glenn Horne wrote: List, Glenn Horne here. I have a Model II with a 582. I would like to get some empty weight of other Model II w/ 582's. Mine seems to be little heavy empty.581 lb's. Thanks Glenn Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:48 AM PST US From: "John" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Weight Watch your ounces when building, save the pounds. I used every suggested weight saving in the manual except drilling holes in the brake rotors. Model III, 582 = 439.5 pounds empty. This helps make up for the pilots lack of exercise and weight conditioning. Also give a useful load of 660 pounds. Regards, John Stoner Alaska ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:49 AM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop Michel, Ahh the Jab is CDI and not magneto . Rotax are CDI but with the gear box you get 2.2 to 3.to 1 ratios to help spin the crankshaft that much faster. Ducati ignition needs about 270 to 300 rpm to actually be able to get the any spark at all. I would assume the Jab is simular. That being said the point igntion rotax 2 strokes will fire easier than the CDI igntion. Regardless, Hand proping can be dangerous but sometimes essential. On 2 strokes I always turn the prop at least 5 turns to loosen up the gear box oil. This really helps save the battery. I also check mags on startup , run up and shutdown. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop >> From: dave [dave@cfisher.com] >> I think most engines can be hand proped. > > If you can spin the prop over 300 RPM, you can start a Jabiru ... yes. :-) > Mind you, I wish I could. My marine engines have always been of the type > with a hand starter in addition to the battery; I've never trusted > electricity at sea. > If I could hand prop my Kitfox, I would do it as I've learnt: A three > men's job. One in the cockpit, the 'one-hand starter,' and the 'retainer.' > Isn't that the 'military and safe way' to do it? > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > > 

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> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:35 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Kitfox-List: Desert Fox Fly-In All, Does anyone have a data for the Desert Fox Fly-In in March? I'm trying to do some planning around that date. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:44 AM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Weight WOW John, nice. What is your climb rate ? I am betting well over 1500 fpm Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: John To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:53 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Weight Watch your ounces when building, save the pounds. I used every suggested weight saving in the manual except drilling holes in the brake rotors. Model III, 582 = 439.5 pounds empty. This helps make up for the pilots lack of exercise and weight conditioning. Also give a useful load of 660 pounds. Regards, John Stoner Alaska ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:24 AM PST US From: "john perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Weight WOW I thought mine was lite. I do have the drilled rotors though. Looks like you should have some great ski flying this winter John. My Bro has his covered now , there in Soldotna . He will be working on it this next hitch in from the slope . Take care fly safe John Perry DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:59 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines From: "Mnflyer" Hi Noel, if your asking me, the HKS I converted to is their only one the 700E, its 60 hp @6200 RPMs, I got my engine & mount from Lost Hill Aviation in Mo. It was fairly straight forward to install had to modify the upper round cowl with two bumps for cylinder clearance and modify the lower boot cowl to allow air out for cooling. The engine is a jewel it starts and runs very nice and smooth, does require about 6 min. to warm up to get to the required oil temp for takeoff. I used my 66" tech III GSC prop from the 582, pitch setting was reduced from 14 degrees to 13.5 degrees the takeoff roll increased by about 100' and the rate of climb went down by about 100' but my cruise increased by a solid 5 MPH. The fuel burn went from 4.25 to 4.5 gph with the 582 to 3 GPH MAX with the HKS, thats running at 5700 RPMs at cruise. I flew it 125 hrs since last April and I really like and now the TBO has been upped to 1000 hrs and the cost of parts to OH is about $1500, plus any good mechanic can overhaul it, no pressed togather crankshaft etc. I have absolutely no problems just change oil & filter and add gas, it has used NO oil in the 125 hrs. there isn't 15 CC of oil in the breather bottle in 125 hrs. The ignition and alternator are so quite that I can hear my radio clearly now unlike the Rotax (and I tried all the fixs for the Rotax still always had noise) nothing now and I like that. -------- GB MNFlyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87813#87813 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:29 AM PST US From: "debrun26@juno.com" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Weight WOW I just read John Stoner's weight and remember talking to him a year ago on the phone when I was looking for a KF to learn in. I think he said h is heighbor measured his take off distance on skiis at 75 feet. I guess that light weight pays off. I ended up getting a heavy searies 5 kF to learn in. It's been stuck in Snohomish, Washington ever since due to E l Nino. I don't wan't to drive it up the alcan to get it to Alaska but would love suggestions. Thanks Layne ________________________________________________________________________ FREE Reminder Service - NEW from AmericanGreetings.com Click HERE and never forget a Birthday or Anniversary again! http://track.juno.com/s/lc?s=197335&u=http://www.americangreetings.c om/products/online_calendar.pd?c=uol5752 I just read John Stoner's weight and remember talking to him a yea r ago on the phone when I was looking for a KF to learn in.  I thin k he said his heighbor measured his take off distance on skiis at 75 fee t.  I guess that light weight pays off.  I ended up getting a heavy searies 5 kF to learn in.  It's been stuck in Snohomish, Wash ington ever since due to El Nino.  I don't wan't to drive it up the alcan to get it to Alaska but would love suggestions.    Thanks Layne

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________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:30 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop On Jan 15, 2007, at 4:59 PM, dave wrote: > Ahh the Jab is CDI and not magneto . Er ... no Dave. I think I have coils and not capacitors. But I understand that it has to spin 300 RPM to create a spark at the plug. Please note that I don't know much about engines and the little I know is about marine diesels, an entirely different ball game. I do spin the prop by hand, at each preflight. I do it in the hangar, after checking oil and gascolator. I hand turn the prop 5 to 10 times, feeling the compression and listening for telltale breathing sound, or unusual noise. In the winter, I do it with the choke open. It brings fuel in the carb, which makes starting easier. Mind you, all this is what I was told to do by my Jabiru dealer and since he still has all his fingers, I assume it's safe. ;-) Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:35 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines I'm flying a model III-A (Probably a prototype Mod III) with the 582. I am planning a trip all the way across Canada in '09 and at the present time I'm a bit worried that the 582 may not be the best choice of engines. If I change out the engine I'll have to get it inspected again and may have to do another fly off. That means that if I change out it will have to be done before summer '08. I believe the carbs are altitude compensating. There are times here, at ~10' ASL the pressure altitude gets down way below sea level. On the trip I expect I may have to fly as high as 10,000' will the HKS carbs accommodate that. The other question is on the weight of the installation. Considering you removed your unnecessary plumbing what was your weight change overall?? Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mnflyer > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:19 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines > > > > Hi Noel, if your asking me, the HKS I converted to is their > only one the 700E, its 60 hp @6200 RPMs, I got my engine & > mount from Lost Hill Aviation in Mo. It was fairly straight > forward to install had to modify the upper round cowl with > two bumps for cylinder clearance and modify the lower boot > cowl to allow air out for cooling. The engine is a jewel it > starts and runs very nice and smooth, does require about 6 > min. to warm up to get to the required oil temp for takeoff. > I used my 66" tech III GSC prop from the 582, pitch setting > was reduced from 14 degrees to 13.5 degrees the takeoff roll > increased by about 100' and the rate of climb went down by > about 100' but my cruise increased by a solid 5 MPH. The fuel > burn went from 4.25 to 4.5 gph with the 582 to 3 GPH MAX with > the HKS, thats running at 5700 RPMs at cruise. I flew it 125 > hrs since last April and I really like and now the TBO has > been upped to 1000 hrs and the cost of parts to OH is about > $1500, plus any good mecha! > nic can overhaul it, no pressed togather crankshaft etc. > I have absolutely no problems just change oil & filter and > add gas, it has used NO oil in the 125 hrs. there isn't 15 CC > of oil in the breather bottle in 125 hrs. The ignition and > alternator are so quite that I can hear my radio clearly now > unlike the Rotax (and I tried all the fixs for the Rotax > still always had noise) nothing now and I like that. > > -------- > GB > MNFlyer > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87813#87813 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:57 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop CDI or not before you turn over a prop by hand check to make sure the mag switches are off. If you have the mag switches on your ignition key just put it in your pocket. Stranger things have happened. My 20 YO., V4, 90 horse outboard is supposed to have CDI on it and I've started it many times with a short piece of cord wrapped around the top flywheel. Most of the time it starts before I've pulled the chord completely through it's length. I don't want any one to end up with the nickname "Lefty" Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michel Verheughe > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:57 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop > > > > On Jan 15, 2007, at 4:59 PM, dave wrote: > > Ahh the Jab is CDI and not magneto . > > Er ... no Dave. I think I have coils and not capacitors. But I > understand that it has to spin 300 RPM to create a spark at the plug. > Please note that I don't know much about engines and the > little I know > is about marine diesels, an entirely different ball game. > > I do spin the prop by hand, at each preflight. I do it in the hangar, > after checking oil and gascolator. I hand turn the prop 5 to > 10 times, > feeling the compression and listening for telltale breathing > sound, or > unusual noise. In the winter, I do it with the choke open. It brings > fuel in the carb, which makes starting easier. Mind you, all this is > what I was told to do by my Jabiru dealer and since he still has all > his fingers, I assume it's safe. ;-) > > Cheers, > Michel > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:12 PM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines Noel, I have no HKS experience but I do have alot of Rotax experience. I can only go by what I have understood on HKS engines from others. For float operations you will be have les performance than your 582. I have no problem going on a 3 hour x country in "MY" 582 as I know the maintenance and history of it . Now across Canada? Sure I would do it in a 582 over a HKS anyday based on the great success that I have had on Rotax 2 strokes. If you are adamant on having a 4 stroke first choice would be 912 UL for your plane. They are proven and have good performance for what your intentions are and better fuel economy that your 582. ON top of that you will pick up 10 to 15 mph cruise on less fuel. That being said the 912 is a Rotax and a price comes with it. You can get decent 912s for 8 to 10k with low hours easily. That is my vote, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 5:09 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines > > I'm flying a model III-A (Probably a prototype Mod III) with the 582. I > am > planning a trip all the way across Canada in '09 and at the present time > I'm > a bit worried that the 582 may not be the best choice of engines. If I > change out the engine I'll have to get it inspected again and may have to > do > another fly off. That means that if I change out it will have to be done > before summer '08. > > I believe the carbs are altitude compensating. There are times here, at > ~10' ASL the pressure altitude gets down way below sea level. On the trip > I > expect I may have to fly as high as 10,000' will the HKS carbs accommodate > that. > > The other question is on the weight of the installation. Considering you > removed your unnecessary plumbing what was your weight change overall?? > > Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mnflyer >> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:19 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines >> >> >> >> Hi Noel, if your asking me, the HKS I converted to is their >> only one the 700E, its 60 hp @6200 RPMs, I got my engine & >> mount from Lost Hill Aviation in Mo. It was fairly straight >> forward to install had to modify the upper round cowl with >> two bumps for cylinder clearance and modify the lower boot >> cowl to allow air out for cooling. The engine is a jewel it >> starts and runs very nice and smooth, does require about 6 >> min. to warm up to get to the required oil temp for takeoff. >> I used my 66" tech III GSC prop from the 582, pitch setting >> was reduced from 14 degrees to 13.5 degrees the takeoff roll >> increased by about 100' and the rate of climb went down by >> about 100' but my cruise increased by a solid 5 MPH. The fuel >> burn went from 4.25 to 4.5 gph with the 582 to 3 GPH MAX with >> the HKS, thats running at 5700 RPMs at cruise. I flew it 125 >> hrs since last April and I really like and now the TBO has >> been upped to 1000 hrs and the cost of parts to OH is about >> $1500, plus any good mecha! >> nic can overhaul it, no pressed togather crankshaft etc. >> I have absolutely no problems just change oil & filter and >> add gas, it has used NO oil in the 125 hrs. there isn't 15 CC >> of oil in the breather bottle in 125 hrs. The ignition and >> alternator are so quite that I can hear my radio clearly now >> unlike the Rotax (and I tried all the fixs for the Rotax >> still always had noise) nothing now and I like that. >> >> -------- >> GB >> MNFlyer >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87813#87813 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:19 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines Noel, For the first year or two one of the guys in our group that flew the annual Idaho back country trip was in a Model IV with 582. First, I must say that we always flew at the speed of the slowest airplane. If my memory serves me his was not the determining factor in this. He did, however find it a bit more of a challenge gaining altitude to over fly the numerous mountain ranges that separated us from our various destinations. We would orbit above him coaching him through the canyons and over the saddles. He was pretty good at finding the lifts and it was like a college course watching him fly. He didn't like cutting broad corners as we sometimes did as we usually flew over the highways or roads, so sometiimes he deviated a bit from our course, keeping a bit closer to the roads. I remember one time that we lost sight of him in this fashion and a bit later one of the guys flying a railroad track announced what seemed to him to be a Cessna 195 closing on him on his nose. Well somehow our 582 driver had gotten ahead of us and was having some fun. I guess the point of this is that I gained a profound respect for that engine. With the exception of it being relatively more thirsty than the 912s it was a fine performer and with prudence and TLC, I believe it will get you where you want to go. Regarding fuel. with the 20 gal. max on the Rans that went with us. It was the Rans rather than the 582 that determined range and planned fuel stops. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:09 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines > > I'm flying a model III-A (Probably a prototype Mod III) with the 582. I > am > planning a trip all the way across Canada in '09 and at the present time > I'm > a bit worried that the 582 may not be the best choice of engines. If I > change out the engine I'll have to get it inspected again and may have to > do > another fly off. That means that if I change out it will have to be done > before summer '08. > > I believe the carbs are altitude compensating. There are times here, at > ~10' ASL the pressure altitude gets down way below sea level. On the trip > I > expect I may have to fly as high as 10,000' will the HKS carbs accommodate > that. > > The other question is on the weight of the installation. Considering you > removed your unnecessary plumbing what was your weight change overall?? > > Noel > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mnflyer >> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:19 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines >> >> >> >> Hi Noel, if your asking me, the HKS I converted to is their >> only one the 700E, its 60 hp @6200 RPMs, I got my engine & >> mount from Lost Hill Aviation in Mo. It was fairly straight >> forward to install had to modify the upper round cowl with >> two bumps for cylinder clearance and modify the lower boot >> cowl to allow air out for cooling. The engine is a jewel it >> starts and runs very nice and smooth, does require about 6 >> min. to warm up to get to the required oil temp for takeoff. >> I used my 66" tech III GSC prop from the 582, pitch setting >> was reduced from 14 degrees to 13.5 degrees the takeoff roll >> increased by about 100' and the rate of climb went down by >> about 100' but my cruise increased by a solid 5 MPH. The fuel >> burn went from 4.25 to 4.5 gph with the 582 to 3 GPH MAX with >> the HKS, thats running at 5700 RPMs at cruise. I flew it 125 >> hrs since last April and I really like and now the TBO has >> been upped to 1000 hrs and the cost of parts to OH is about >> $1500, plus any good mecha! >> nic can overhaul it, no pressed togather crankshaft etc. >> I have absolutely no problems just change oil & filter and >> add gas, it has used NO oil in the 125 hrs. there isn't 15 CC >> of oil in the breather bottle in 125 hrs. The ignition and >> alternator are so quite that I can hear my radio clearly now >> unlike the Rotax (and I tried all the fixs for the Rotax >> still always had noise) nothing now and I like that. >> >> -------- >> GB >> MNFlyer >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87813#87813 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:59 PM PST US From: Mike Subject: Kitfox-List: Weight The W&B data sheet for my KF2 SN89 shows 461 lbs. as the empty weight. Of course, when I am through rebuilding it, I will have to redo the Weight and Balance. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:03 PM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews I have 8" Douglas chrome steel rims. The original buffed down 2 ply ATV tyres always leaked. I put all the leaking down at the time to prickles from grass strips however when I fitted golf cart tyres we were getting slow loss of pressure over a few weeks more so in one tyre than the other. We were trying to run them tubeless. The leaking was very minimal but was from the area of the rim where the brake disc lugs were welded on. This had caused slight distortion on the inside of the rim. We have since fitted tubes and no more leaks as such but did have trouble with the tyres slowly turning on the rims eventually damaging the valve stem. The original tyres were running 8 to 9 PSI and the golf cart tyres we originally ran 12 PSI but due to the valve problem I have gone to 18 PSI and the valves remain perfectly straight and the tyres never need air. I'm very pleased with them indeed and intend to buy 2 spares in case they are hard to get next time. Rex Australia. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:55 PM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Looking for Member Hello list. I lost all my saved emails today and lost the address of a list member that I was corresponding with off line. At my ole age cannot remember the name, but the gent I am looking for flys a yellow Kitfox with floats. Please contact me. I have gas cap fairings almost ready and need an address. Jimmie ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:10 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: charging problem From: "369PL" I have a model 4 with a 582 rotax. My volt guage reads 12 to 16volts. In flight. the last time I flew it after about 10 min it droped to 12volts and stayed their. I currently have the regulator/rectifier #264 870 I am wanting to upgrade to the KEY WEST POWER SUPPLY or the KUNTZLEMAN POWER SUPPLY. Has anyone had any experience with these options? what are your recomendations? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87900#87900 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:16 PM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Looking for Member Jimme, I was talking to Paul today. I bet it was him :) Here is his email av8rps@tznet.com Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimmie Blackwell To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Looking for Member Hello list. I lost all my saved emails today and lost the address of a list member that I was corresponding with off line. At my ole age cannot remember the name, but the gent I am looking for flys a yellow Kitfox with floats. Please contact me. I have gas cap fairings almost ready and need an address. Jimmie ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:10 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines From: "Mnflyer" Hi Noel, the weight of the HKS for my installation was 9 lbs more than the 582 I removed I did add 3 lbs to the tail that gave me a total of 12 lbs more, I added a couple of other items such as elevator trim, an Aero Flash beacon etc which increased the weight a total of 15 lbs. The carbs on the HKS are the exact same carbs used on the Rotax 912s aside from jetting of course and they are altitude compensating, if you want more mixture control GreenSky Adventure of Fla has a mixture control that works on the HKS same control also works on the 582. As for performance if your plane flies good with a 582 be it on wheels, floats or skis it will fly as good or better with the HKS. The HKS is equal in every way to the 582, with the exception that it will run 1000+ hrs between overhauls, cost 1/2 to overhaul vs the 582, burns .66% of the fuel that a 582 will (3 gph vs 4.5) As for comparison to the 912: the 912 is 80 hp so yes it will preform better, but the 912 is double or more the cost of the HKS (in my book the 20hp is not worth the extra $7500.00) the cost to overhaul a 912 is just about as much as a new engine, there are service bulletins and AD's issued every 3 /4 weeks some costly some are nuisance but they are required, the HKS has one bulletin on the carb sockets same as the Rotax. The procedure for starting the HKS is turn on the master switch turn on the electric fuel pump push the starter button turn the ignition switches and let the engine warm up for about 6 min. to get the oil temp up shut down is also straight forward let the engine idle for 2 mins and turn off the ignition switches no need for special startup and shut down procedures to keep the engine from knocking the carbs off. Before I comitted to converting to the HKS I researched the various engines that were readily available and the HKS won out, having flow 100 hrs with a VW engine I'm not a fan of it, I really don't like liquid cooling and single ignition so the heavy Subs were out, that left the Rotax 912 and the Jabiru engines both are good engine but very expensive and again don't care for the liquid cooling of the 912. I had no problems with the 582 but it required constant maint. adjusting the carbs every spring and fall, changing spark plugs every 25 hrs, using oil and 4.5 gph fuel a 300 hr TBO and the constant thing of never really trusting it, as I posted I put 125 hr on the HKS this last year from April to Dec 28th if I had overhauled the 582 it would be 42% used up. I keep excellent records and the cost per hour to own and operate the HKS vs the 582 is $11.88 per hr to $23.76 per hr. for the 582. -------- GB MNFlyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87903#87903 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:22 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: charging problem From: "Mnflyer" Hi when I had a 582 in my Kitfox I changed it over to the Key west regulator and it is an excellent product the voltage never varied after installing it and the battery was always charged. -------- GB MNFlyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87907#87907 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:26 PM PST US From: edygert@charter.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines Hi Was that VW time in a Kitfox? If so what was the engine configuration,displacement,compression ratio, prop ,etc. Was engine maintenance,durability the main issue or performance? Thanks........ Ed Dygert in TN At 04:37 PM 1/15/2007 -0800, you wrote: > >having flow 100 hrs with a VW engine I'm not a fan of it, >..................................... > >GB >MNFlyer > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87903#87903 > > >-- >11:04 AM > > >-- >11:04 AM -- ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:06 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines From: "Mnflyer" Hi, no it was in another plane, mainly I didn't like the lack of electical system and the hand propping, sometimes it started right up and other times one had to pull and pull on the prop, it was extremely prone to carb icing, and burned plenty of fuel, it was a 1600 CC 50 hp engine and burned 4 gph of 100 LL, had to replace several spark plug threads with helicoils as the alum threads were easy to strip out using a torque wrench and antiseize but I really didn't like the single ignition. -------- GB MNFlyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87923#87923 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:21 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines there are service bulletins and AD's issued every 3 /4 weeks some costly some are nuisance but they are required, the HKS has one bulletin on the carb sockets same as the Rotax. > GB > MNFlyer I think the every three to four weeks is a bit of an exaggeration, but that said. I feel that I know just about everything there is to know about the 912. Lots of that has come from the service bulletins and I take great comfort in that. What I would worry greatly about is if the engine I am running doesn't have a service bulletin history. I don't think in my lifetime or any of my children's lifetime, for that matter, the perfect engine will be designed and built. In some instances silence is not golden. I know of others that made the decision to avoid the 912 for this very reason and ultimately to some regret. respectfully, Lowell > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87903#87903 > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:26 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop Noel removing the spark plug leads would certainly keep the engine from starting, however, the Ducati ignition modules can be ruined if they get enough charge and can't discharge through the plugs. Better to unplug the modules from the engine coil. Jerry Liles Noel Loveys wrote: > >When working on GA engines I always use a clip lead to ground the p-terminal >right on the mag. With the Rotax 582 in my own plane I always treat it as >if it was primed to go. So far I've been lucky with that. One idea would be >to remove the spark plug leads. > >Noel > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:39 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines:VW My VW is electric start, alternator, updraft carb with a HEAT SHIELD, ~3gph 87 octane, and I havent seen my plugs in ~55 hours. I'm not a fan of VW's either, but a motor is a neccasary evil and VW's are cheap. Yes HKS would probably be my second choice for a light Kitfox. Ron NB Ore >From: "Mnflyer" >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines >Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:41:27 -0800 > > >Hi, no it was in another plane, mainly I didn't like the lack of electical >system and the hand propping, sometimes it started right up and other times >one had to pull and pull on the prop, it was extremely prone to carb icing, >and burned plenty of fuel, it was a 1600 CC 50 hp engine and burned 4 gph >of 100 LL, had to replace several spark plug threads with helicoils as the >alum threads were easy to strip out using a torque wrench and antiseize but >I really didn't like the single ignition. > >-------- >GB >MNFlyer > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87923#87923 > > _________________________________________________________________ Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win? ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:59 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: header tank From: "dcsfoto" little rock ar tank looks great where are you at? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87938#87938 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:27 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines 20 gal U.S. is exactly what my plane carries. Usable fuel is probably a gallon or so less. I have on occasion carried an additional 12.5 Gal U.S. in the right float... Of course to use it I have to have a place to set down to refuel the main wing tanks. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Lowell Fitt > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:11 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines > > > > > Noel, > > For the first year or two one of the guys in our group that > flew the annual > Idaho back country trip was in a Model IV with 582. First, I > must say that > we always flew at the speed of the slowest airplane. If my > memory serves me > his was not the determining factor in this. He did, however > find it a bit > more of a challenge gaining altitude to over fly the numerous > mountain > ranges that separated us from our various destinations. We > would orbit > above him coaching him through the canyons and over the > saddles. He was > pretty good at finding the lifts and it was like a college > course watching > him fly. He didn't like cutting broad corners as we sometimes > did as we > usually flew over the highways or roads, so sometiimes he > deviated a bit > from our course, keeping a bit closer to the roads. I > remember one time > that we lost sight of him in this fashion and a bit later one > of the guys > flying a railroad track announced what seemed to him to be a > Cessna 195 > closing on him on his nose. Well somehow our 582 driver had > gotten ahead of > us and was having some fun. > > I guess the point of this is that I gained a profound respect > for that > engine. With the exception of it being relatively more > thirsty than the > 912s it was a fine performer and with prudence and TLC, I > believe it will > get you where you want to go. Regarding fuel. with the 20 > gal. max on the > Rans that went with us. It was the Rans rather than the 582 > that determined > range and planned fuel stops. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Noel Loveys" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:09 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines > > > > > > > I'm flying a model III-A (Probably a prototype Mod III) > with the 582. I > > am > > planning a trip all the way across Canada in '09 and at the > present time > > I'm > > a bit worried that the 582 may not be the best choice of > engines. If I > > change out the engine I'll have to get it inspected again > and may have to > > do > > another fly off. That means that if I change out it will > have to be done > > before summer '08. > > > > I believe the carbs are altitude compensating. There are > times here, at > > ~10' ASL the pressure altitude gets down way below sea > level. On the trip > > I > > expect I may have to fly as high as 10,000' will the HKS > carbs accommodate > > that. > > > > The other question is on the weight of the installation. > Considering you > > removed your unnecessary plumbing what was your weight > change overall?? > > > > Noel > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > Of Mnflyer > >> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:19 PM > >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi Noel, if your asking me, the HKS I converted to is their > >> only one the 700E, its 60 hp @6200 RPMs, I got my engine & > >> mount from Lost Hill Aviation in Mo. It was fairly straight > >> forward to install had to modify the upper round cowl with > >> two bumps for cylinder clearance and modify the lower boot > >> cowl to allow air out for cooling. The engine is a jewel it > >> starts and runs very nice and smooth, does require about 6 > >> min. to warm up to get to the required oil temp for takeoff. > >> I used my 66" tech III GSC prop from the 582, pitch setting > >> was reduced from 14 degrees to 13.5 degrees the takeoff roll > >> increased by about 100' and the rate of climb went down by > >> about 100' but my cruise increased by a solid 5 MPH. The fuel > >> burn went from 4.25 to 4.5 gph with the 582 to 3 GPH MAX with > >> the HKS, thats running at 5700 RPMs at cruise. I flew it 125 > >> hrs since last April and I really like and now the TBO has > >> been upped to 1000 hrs and the cost of parts to OH is about > >> $1500, plus any good mecha! > >> nic can overhaul it, no pressed togather crankshaft etc. > >> I have absolutely no problems just change oil & filter and > >> add gas, it has used NO oil in the 125 hrs. there isn't 15 CC > >> of oil in the breather bottle in 125 hrs. The ignition and > >> alternator are so quite that I can hear my radio clearly now > >> unlike the Rotax (and I tried all the fixs for the Rotax > >> still always had noise) nothing now and I like that. > >> > >> -------- > >> GB > >> MNFlyer > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87813#87813 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:00 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: charging problem That sounds like you may have a defective lighting coil in the engine get an AC meter an measure the output of the lighting coils before changing the rectifier regulator. If your battery isn't discharging fairly quickly on the ground the rectifier may not be the problem. Those things are grounded through the frame. A good solid ground is necessary to the operation of the regulator. Take it off clean the frame where it was mounted and the back of the regulator case with abrasive like sandpaper and reinstall it for another trial. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 369PL > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:04 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: charging problem > > > > I have a model 4 with a 582 rotax. My volt guage reads 12 to > 16volts. In flight. the last time I flew it after about 10 > min it droped to 12volts and stayed their. I currently have > the regulator/rectifier #264 870 > I am wanting to upgrade to the KEY WEST POWER SUPPLY or the > KUNTZLEMAN POWER SUPPLY. Has anyone had any experience with > these options? what are your recomendations? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87900#87900 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:45 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines Thanks for the exact kind of info I've been looking for... Lets see the score now is 3-0 for HKS Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mnflyer > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:08 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: HKS engines > > > > Hi Noel, the weight of the HKS for my installation was 9 lbs > more than the 582 I removed I did add 3 lbs to the tail that > gave me a total of 12 lbs more, I added a couple of other > items such as elevator trim, an Aero Flash beacon etc which > increased the weight a total of 15 lbs. The carbs on the HKS > are the exact same carbs used on the Rotax 912s aside from > jetting of course and they are altitude compensating, if you > want more mixture control GreenSky Adventure of Fla has a > mixture control that works on the HKS same control also works > on the 582. As for performance if your plane flies good with > a 582 be it on wheels, floats or skis it will fly as good or > better with the HKS. The HKS is equal in every way to the > 582, with the exception that it will run 1000+ hrs between > overhauls, cost 1/2 to overhaul vs the 582, burns .66% of the > fuel that a 582 will (3 gph vs 4.5) > As for comparison to the 912: the 912 is 80 hp so yes it will > preform better, but the 912 is double or more the cost of the > HKS (in my book the 20hp is not worth the extra $7500.00) the > cost to overhaul a 912 is just about as much as a new engine, > there are service bulletins and AD's issued every 3 /4 weeks > some costly some are nuisance but they are required, the HKS > has one bulletin on the carb sockets same as the Rotax. The > procedure for starting the HKS is turn on the master switch > turn on the electric fuel pump push the starter button turn > the ignition switches and let the engine warm up for about 6 > min. to get the oil temp up shut down is also straight > forward let the engine idle for 2 mins and turn off the > ignition switches no need for special startup and shut down > procedures to keep the engine from knocking the carbs off. > Before I comitted to converting to the HKS I researched the > various engines that were readily available and the HKS won > out, having flow 100 hrs with a VW engine I'm not a fan of > it, I really don't like liquid cooling and single ignition > so the heavy Subs were out, that left the Rotax 912 and the > Jabiru engines both are good engine but very expensive and > again don't care for the liquid cooling of the 912. > I had no problems with the 582 but it required constant > maint. adjusting the carbs every spring and fall, changing > spark plugs every 25 hrs, using oil and 4.5 gph fuel a 300 hr > TBO and the constant thing of never really trusting it, as I > posted I put 125 hr on the HKS this last year from April to > Dec 28th if I had overhauled the 582 it would be 42% used up. > I keep excellent records and the cost per hour to own and > operate the HKS vs the 582 is $11.88 per hr to $23.76 per hr. > for the 582. > > -------- > GB > MNFlyer > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87903#87903 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:57 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop Sounds logical... Thanks The main thing is to be careful.... You don't want to be the one that has an engine start unexpectedly. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Jerry Liles > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned Hand prop > > > > Noel removing the spark plug leads would certainly keep the > engine from > starting, however, the Ducati ignition modules can be ruined > if they get > enough charge and can't discharge through the plugs. Better > to unplug > the modules from the engine coil. > > Jerry Liles > > Noel Loveys wrote: > > > > > >When working on GA engines I always use a clip lead to > ground the p-terminal > >right on the mag. With the Rotax 582 in my own plane I > always treat it as > >if it was primed to go. So far I've been lucky with that. > One idea would be > >to remove the spark plug leads. > > > >Noel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:41 PM PST US From: "john perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews If you have the original 8 inch kitfox rims then they are Douglas wheels 6061 aluminum wheels welded together in the middle . Blue lable .125 thick . John Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: Rex Shaw To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:48 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews I have 8" Douglas chrome steel rims. The original buffed down 2 ply ATV tyres always leaked.. Rex Australia. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:28 PM PST US From: John Allen Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Lesson Learned One time the battery was dead, so, being used to Aeroncas and Taylorcrafts etc, I just hand propped the 912UL. It started right up. You have to be even more careful than with a small Continental because the Continental kind of sputters to a start while the Rotax lights off fast and has 3 blades coming round quick. A defective ground might make it hot and a defective throttle is supposed to cause the throttle to default to full power. So I guess the grounds and throttle connection needs to be checked, but the real lesson seems to be - like a loaded gun - be careful and always treat it like it is live when turning it over. JA KF IV Speedster. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! 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