---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/18/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:12 AM - Re: Re: 100LL and TCP100LL and TCP (dave) 2. 04:13 AM - Re: 912S alternator Was: Re: Kitfox list just like the Lancair List - Not building or fhying related do not archive (Dave G.) 3. 09:50 AM - Re: 100LL and TCP (johnciolino@comcast.net) 4. 01:00 PM - Dual Throttle (parahawk) 5. 02:26 PM - Re: Dual Throttle (dave) 6. 02:33 PM - Glide range (Joel) 7. 02:56 PM - Re: 912S alternator Was: Re: Kitfox list just like the Lancair List - Not building or fhying related do not archive912S alternator Was: Kitfox list just like the (Nolan Donahue) 8. 03:26 PM - Re: Dual Throttle (Jose M. Toro) 9. 03:48 PM - Any Foxes For Sale (jareds) 10. 05:03 PM - Re: Dual Throttle (Ron Liebmann) 11. 10:06 PM - Re: Dual Throttle (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:52 AM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL and TCP100LL and TCP I agree to not use 100LL on 2 strokes regularly. Occasionaly is not going to cause much concern. This list is great for separating the facts from fiction. And the guys who run hundreds of hours a year are solid proof of what works and what does not. I used over 1300 US gals of Gas in One 582 last year alone and it was all regular pump gas. My plugs are at 122 hours now since July 2006 ands still going strong. I have Met the owner of this site and attended his Rotax Class. Highly creditable Rotax Guru. AS a matter of Fact Daniel And Bob Robertson in Canada are the only 2 Rotax guys that have the respect from many. They both run Rotax Shops and teach Rotax School . Hope this helps you all in successful operations . Dave Here is some creditable info on 100LL and Rotax 2 strokes. http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed2.htm Aviation Fuels It is possible but not recommended to use 100LL AVGAS, since the the lead content will increase deposits in the combustion chamber and on crankshaft ball bearings, inducing premature wear. Its higher octane rating does not bring any significant advantage to the engine's operation. Now for 4 strokes that same site tells about the same. http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed4.htm Aviation Fuels It is possible but not recommended to use 100LL AVGAS, since the the lead content is like cholesterol to your engine: it will accelerate wear on the valve seats, create deposits in the combustion chamber and sediments in the lubrication system and gearbox. Increased maintenance is necessary to compensate. Unlike "conventional" aircraft engines, lead is absolutely not essential to the proper lubrication and operation of a Rotax 4-stroke aircraft engine. The increased octane rating also has no marked advantage for the operation of your engine. To be avoided: a.. "Regular" fuel except if used in the 912 A/F/UL and burned entirely on the day of purchase; b.. "Premium" fuel which is more than 3 weeks old c.. AVGAS except when the required automotive fuel is not available ----- Original Message ----- From: "john perry" Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:28 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL and TCP100LL and TCP > > I agree I run my 582 on 100LL all the time and never a problem. I do > make shure my egt's are right on and my water temp is around 170 all the > time . > Have never seen any deposits on the crank bearings or ever had any issues > with lead on the rings . > John Perry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Gibbs" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:02 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 100LL and TCP100LL and TCP > > >> >> Noel sez: >> >>>The reasons for using 100 LL for Contis, Lycs and even P&W are well >>>documented.... Your 912 is neither of those and while it can use 100LL in >>>small quantities extended use may damage your engine or shorten your >>>TBO... >> >> Baloney. My 912S ran exclusively on 100LL and still does (in another >> airplane). Many of the Rotax engines used by members of the Desert Fox >> squadron do as well. No damage, no shortened life. >> >> My next one will, too. Unlike auto fuel, at least we know what's in >> 100LL. >> >> Mike G. >> N728KF >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:38 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: 912S alternator Was: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox list just like the Lancair List - Not building or fhying related do not archive The diagram on Page 10-2 of the illustrated parts cat. for the 912 clearly shows a magnet excited alternator, no field coil. This arrangment is similar to the two strokes. However, pages 12-2 and 13-2 show the AUX alternator, which is clearly a conventional field excited alternator similar to your car. Hope this helps. The document referred to can be downloaded from http://www.rotec.com/sdocintro.htm Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:47 AM PST US From: johnciolino@comcast.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 100LL and TCP Noel, I mix TCP with 100LL according to recommended ratio. I use the big syringe Alcor sells which is marked in gallons. I note the number of gals I add to each tank when I fill up and squirt the approrpiate amount of TCP in each tank. John Ciolino N9294Y -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Noel Loveys" Do you use the 100LL straight or with TCP? Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johnciolino@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 100LL and TCP Roger, I have 600 hrs over 10 years on my Model IV-1200 with the Rotax 912UL. I've run 100LL and TCP for 500 of those hours; mogas (without ethanol) prior to that. I have never had any problems with this combination. My exhaust is a light gray power and the plugs have a light gray deposits on them. The plugs are pretty clean during the annual inspection however, I can find the NGK plugs locally for $1.59 each so I change mine every year and can't comment on the long term affects on the plugs. I also change my oil and filter every 25 hours and like someone else mentioned the oil is relatively clean. But with only 25 hrs on it that may be the case no matter what gas and/or additive I use. I used Honda mineral based motorcycle oil (i.e. non-synthetic) but have recently switched to Penzoil motorcycle oil. Bottom line is that I have had no problems in 600 hours. I just jinxed myself. John Ciolino N9294Y -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Roger Standley" Hi List, Is anyone running 100LL and TCP in a 912UL? Any problems? How do you get the TCP to mix uniformly with the 100LL. Any problem mixing the 100LL / TCP and mogas that has ethanol? I recently moved my IV-1200 to a County airport where they are very prejudiced against mogas and encourage using 100LL. Roger N499KF href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Noel,
 
I mix TCP with 100LL according to recommended ratio. I use the big syringe Alcor sells which is marked in gallons.  I note the number of gals I add to each tank when I fill up and squirt the approrpiate amount of TCP in each tank.
 
John Ciolino
N9294Y
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Do you use the 100LL straight or with TCP?
 
 

Noel

 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of johnciolino@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:59 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com; kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 100LL and TCP

Roger,
 
I have 600 hrs over 10 years on my Model IV-1200 with the Rotax 912UL.  I've run 100LL and TCP for 500 of those hours; mogas (without ethanol) prior to that.
 
I have never had any problems with this combination.  My exhaust is a light gray power and the plugs have a light gray deposits on them.  The plugs are pretty clean during the annual inspection however, I can find the NGK plugs locally for $1.59 each so I change mine every year and can't comment on the long term affects on the plugs.
 
I also change my oil and filter every 25 hours and like someone else mentioned the oil is relatively clean. But with only 25 hrs on it that may be the case no matter what gas and/or additive I use.  I used Honda mineral based motorcycle oil (i.e. non-synthetic) but have recently switched to Penzoil motorcycle oil.
 
Bottom line is that I have had no problems in 600 hours. I just jinxed myself.
 
John Ciolino
N9294Y
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Roger Standley" <taildragon@msn.com>
 
Hi List,
 
Is anyone running 100LL and TCP in a 912UL? Any problems? How do you get the TCP to mix uniformly with the 100LL. Any problem mixing the 100LL / TCP and mogas that has ethanol?
 
I recently moved my IV-1200 to a County airport where they are very prejudiced against mogas and encourage using 100LL.
 
Roger
N499KF






href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:21 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Dual Throttle From: "parahawk" Has anybody added a left side panel mounted throttle to fly the airplane right handed ?? Thanks for the info -------- Flying is the highest form of life on earth. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88672#88672 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:07 PM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dual Throttle I know a guy with a Kitfox 1 that has dual conrtols. I can likely get you a picture of it sometime . Basically it a bell crank on engine side of firewall that both throttle controls attach too from the dash. Then there is a point on it where it attaches to the carb . ( it a 503 single carb) . Easier solution - if you like flying right handed , sit on right side :) Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "parahawk" Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Dual Throttle > > Has anybody added a left side panel mounted throttle to fly the airplane > right handed ?? > Thanks for the info > > -------- > Flying is the highest form of life on earth. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88672#88672 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:18 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Glide range From: "Joel" My Pocket PC reset and I am reconfiguring the Anywhere Map GPS program and don't remember the glide info. Anyone have numbers for a model 5? -------- Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88690#88690 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:06 PM PST US From: Nolan Donahue Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912S alternator Was: RE: Kitfox list just like the Lancair List - Not building or fhying related do not archive912S alternator Was: Kitfox list just like the I'm not sure exactly what type of charging system the 912 has (I think it's an alternator bult into the flywheel) but no matter what type it is, most airplanes will not charge a dead or nearly dead battery because the solenoid that connects the battery to the rest of the electrical system requires battery power. So when you flip the master switch, if the battery has no juice, the battery cannot be connected to the alternator, generator, stator etc it makes no difference if the engine is running or not. Some of the master relays may require more juice than others but they all need some. It's like when you try to start your car with a dead battery, and you hear the solenoid clicking, without enough juice to fully engage the solenoid. Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:45 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dual Throttle This does not exactly answers your question, but I have seen many people that fly from the right seat in order to have the stick on the right hand. To do so, you must have breaks on the right seat. If necessary, I think it's easier to move break actuators than to move throttle. Jose ----- Original Message ---- From: parahawk Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:59:35 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Dual Throttle Has anybody added a left side panel mounted throttle to fly the airplane right handed ?? Thanks for the info -------- Flying is the highest form of life on earth. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88672#88672 Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:06 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Kitfox-List: Any Foxes For Sale My great uncle wayne dietrich inspired me to fly as a little kid with his cub He wants to buy a fox He used to have a dakota from edgeley ND If you know of a plane for sale let me know by emailing me direct. Price and photos and local. Good ole cowboy who still breaks our horses in his box canyon near mount rushmore. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:54 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dual Throttle One of the first things that I did with my kit was to remove the center throttle mount and move it to the left side so I could fly right handed. I had many hours in J-3's in the past and was used to flying that way. Ron N55KF Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "parahawk" Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Dual Throttle > > Has anybody added a left side panel mounted throttle to fly the airplane > right handed ?? > Thanks for the info > > -------- > Flying is the highest form of life on earth. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88672#88672 > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:44 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dual Throttle At 12:59 PM 1/18/2007, you wrote: >Has anybody added a left side panel mounted throttle to fly the airplane >right handed ?? >Thanks for the info My flight buddy has a left hand / left seat throttle on his K-IV / 912. He made a very simple two cable throttle system from scratch. My question, however, and I don't mean to be rude, is why don't you just fly left handed? I fly both right and left handed and it doesn't seem to make a difference. I mean, I'm scary with either hand, and I'm by no means ambidextrous. I didn't do it on purpose, it's just that when I learned in the 152 I flew left hand wheel, then when I went to the Decathlon I had to fly right hand stick, then when I flew the Kitfox it was left hand stick. I don't think it took more than a few minutes to become comfortable either way. Flying right handed in the left seat seems challenging to me, because you then have to do all the panel work with your left hand. You also end up switching hands any time you want a chart, or a drink, or when you have to slap your passenger to stop their screaming. I agree with Dave, it would be easier to sit on the right side. (Assuming your panel was made that way.) Just tell everyone you learned to fly in England. They'll understand. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.