Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Re: U.S. Nav web site (Fox5flyer)
2. 05:55 AM - Very much on topic (Don Smythe)
3. 06:31 AM - Update : Wheel Skis and other Kitfox parts on EBAY (dave)
4. 08:46 AM - Mil 6000 (Clint Bazzill)
5. 02:01 PM - Cooling liquid EVANS NPG+ (john beirne)
6. 02:01 PM - Fuel Flow, continued. (Torgeir Mortensen)
7. 02:56 PM - Re: Cooling liquid EVANS NPG+ (Randy Daughenbaugh)
8. 03:09 PM - Re: U.S. Nav web site (kurt schrader)
9. 03:14 PM - Re: Fuel Flow, continued. (Michel Verheughe)
10. 03:34 PM - Re: Fuel Flow, continued. (QSS)
11. 03:34 PM - Re: Fuel Flow, continued. (Robert Harris)
12. 03:55 PM - Fuel Pump needed (Rex Shaw)
13. 04:23 PM - Re: Fuel Flow, continued. (Guy Buchanan)
14. 04:24 PM - Re: Fuel Flow, continued. (Alan Daniels)
15. 05:14 PM - Re: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews (Lowell Fitt)
16. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews (john perry)
17. 06:24 PM - Upgrade IV to V ? (parahawk)
18. 07:41 PM - skinny mastadon (kitfox)
19. 10:00 PM - Re: Liquid Cooling (Kfyellowbird@cs.com)
20. 10:57 PM - Re: Liquid Cooling (avtar412)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: U.S. Nav web site |
Hey Kurt, the URL didn't show up on my message. Could you add it again?
Deke
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Here is an interesting web site for flying in the U.S.
> Sorry, I don't see anything yet for other
> countries....
>
> You can enter the airport ID to the right, or click on
> a chart below right, then drag the map to see the area
> you want. Once centered, you can use the slider bar,
> bottom right on the chart, to zoom in or out. The
> current weather can be selected by placing the cursor
> over any airport with a "weather circle" over it.
>
> Just a handy site for you all.
>
> Kurt S. S-5
Message 2
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| Subject: | Very much on topic |
I wrote this day before yesterday but waited until today to hit the SEND
key.
This Kitfox list used to be based on the principles of being
Informative, Educational, Safety, Pilot awareness, Kitfox building,
Kitfox problem areas / resolutions and other important issues.
I have noticed lately that the list is turning into nothing more
than a chat room. Comments like "Right on", "It's cold up here",
"Thanks", and on, and on, and on, should be person to person and off
list. New members are either causing this to happen or will eventually
cause even newer members to follow suit and develop bad posting habits.
I also notice some people haven't yet understood the importance of
adding the words "Do Not Archive" to your email. In the distant
future if someone is trying to research worthwhile information they will
have to wade through hundreds of "Thanks", "It's cold", etc, etc.
Please do not get me wrong, I'm not saying the issues discussed have
no place on the list because they do. I'm saying the numerous replies
that offer nothing should either be sent directly to the person or
simply not sent.
This list has been one of the best resources for a Kitfox owner for
a very long time. Please try to limit the unnecessary chat that
contributes nothing. Every one of us has made the mistake of sending
something in error or forgot to add DO NOT ARCHIVE. Mistakes are OK.
I know this post is going to cause a few to get up on their hind
quarters and start yelling back. Just before you hit the send button
stop and think. Yelling back is just going to add more unnecessary
traffic to this already chat room. This is not a chat room it's a place
for facts and informative information.
A recent post concerning fuel and ethanol shows a person actually
went out and did some serious shop testing and reported some good
"facts" as to his findings.
One last thing, I'm seeing less and less of the old timers post any
valuable information. I for one don't really care to post anymore
because of the multitude of replies that will follow.
If anyone feels they are pointed out here and needs to vent, do it
off list dosmythe@cox.net
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Don Smythe
Message 3
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| Subject: | Update : Wheel Skis and other Kitfox parts on EBAY |
Those Skis sold for 617 $ plus shipping so I would guess a 700 $ in
total.
Congrats to who got them and hopefully someone one this list got a heads
up to these skis I posted.
If anyone wants skis like this for the King fox tires , let me know and
I will build them.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:57 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheel Skis and other Kitfox parts on EBAY
The auction ends today for thse wheel skis. 202.53 now .
If you want Wheel skis these should be a good deal anything under 500
$
I am sure Lynn could attest to the costs plus time to make his own.
by the Lynn how is your Skis ?
If I was to make a set like this I would not sell under 500$ Most
Skis sell for $ 750 up for a Pair.
If you are considering Skis - this is a good deal for someone.
Dave
Hope that link works, if not just SEARCH for " KITFOX " on
ebay.com
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.c
om%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=kitfox&category0
Message 4
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I am looking for some Mil 6000, contact me off line at
clint_bazzill@hotmail.com
Second question, I am interested in putting a alternator in my Model IV, I
have the round cowl, it looks like it will fit with a little fiberglas
trimming. Any of you out there with information? Clint
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
Spaces
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cooling liquid EVANS NPG+ |
While not available on this side of the pond (at least I have never seen it) this
coolant comes to the attention of the FAA in the most recent Bi-Weekly AD listing,
I have, however seen mention of it in the Rotax list so I suppose some fox owners
here may be using it. Incidentally this AD refers to The Stemme S10-VT Motor
glider and not to Rotax engines or kitfox aircraft
John.
Extract from FAA Bi-Weekly 2007-02
The mandatory continuing airworthiness information (MCAI) states that:
During certification works it was found that the cooling liquid EVANS NPG+ is flammable.
The liquid cooling circuit of the Stemme S10-VT is not designed to be
filled with a flammable liquid without prior modifications. For that reason,
this Emergency AD requires the replacement of the EVANS NPG+ cooling liquid.
In addition, the operation limit of the cylinder head temperature must be temporary
changed to 120C / 248F.
Actions and Compliance
(e) Prior to further flight as of January 29, 2007 (the effective date of this
AD), unless already done, do the following actions.
(1) Replace the EVANS NPG+ cooling liquid in accordance with the instructions of
Stemme F&D Service Bulletin A31-10-076 Am. Index: 01.a, dated October 9, 2006
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89597#89597
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow, continued. |
The Kitfox tank system with two wing tanks and one header tank, is using
both the head pressure and the gravity to ensure adequate fuel pressure
for our engine.
At first this might seem simple and easy, -but is it?
Let's have a look at the system as it is today; with two wing tanks, the
previous wing tank valves removed and the header vented to the right tank.
Now, can you see that the header tank is filled by the gravity only??
If everything is as it "should" be this system will work fine.
Here is a principle drawing of a "normal" working system; Fuel_1.jpg
However, what will happen and how -if we forgot to install one of the tank
cap (let's assume the left) ?
OK., everyone know that our tank will start loosing fuel, but how? Well,
remember that our right tank is at "static pressure", in addition it is
pressurized "a little" by the head pressure entering through our "vent"
line installed in the fuel cap.
So here's a pressure difference of approx.: (0.2 - 0.3) psi air pressure
between each wing tank, the high pressure is in the right tank, therefore
fuel transfer from right to the left tank will take place.
You see, here the left tank will continue overfill until the right tank is
empty. After the right tank is exhausted, the level in the header will
decrease to the "height" position of the input line coming from left main
tank.
Now, we'll have a continuos airflow from right to the left main preventing
much fuel from the left tank to flow into the header, soon the header is
empty -and the engine stop.
This next one drawing show the same system with a missing left fuel cap;
Fuel_2.jpg
Next time (in a couple of days), we'll have a look at other and more
interesting failure modes in this same system, and later on the old
system...
Torgeir
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Cooling liquid EVANS NPG+ |
John,
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this with the list.
I can testify that the 912S will boil over at random times if you use normal glycol/water
antifreeze. It happened to me Christmas day of 2005 with an outside
temp of about 32F. This was after flying all the previous winter and all summer
with the same antifreeze. The way it was explained to me was that boiling
bubbles form on the inside surfaces of the coolant openings of the heads.
Most of the time these bubbles collapse, but if they don't, they can allow a hot
spot to form and the steam insulates the spot and allows further over heating.
I don't know, but it did happen.
I got the Evans coolant from Aircraft Spruce along with a gallon of their flush.
No problems since.
It does make sense that the Evans propylene glycol based coolant is flammable.
My overflow reservoir is of course plastic......
Which side of the pond are you on?
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john beirne
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Cooling liquid EVANS NPG+
While not available on this side of the pond (at least I have never seen it) this
coolant comes to the attention of the FAA in the most recent Bi-Weekly AD listing,
I have, however seen mention of it in the Rotax list so I suppose some fox owners
here may be using it. Incidentally this AD refers to The Stemme S10-VT Motor
glider and not to Rotax engines or kitfox aircraft
John.
Extract from FAA Bi-Weekly 2007-02
The mandatory continuing airworthiness information (MCAI) states that:
During certification works it was found that the cooling liquid EVANS NPG+ is flammable.
The liquid cooling circuit of the Stemme S10-VT is not designed to be
filled with a flammable liquid without prior modifications. For that reason,
this Emergency AD requires the replacement of the EVANS NPG+ cooling liquid.
In addition, the operation limit of the cylinder head temperature must be temporary
changed to 120C / 248F.
Actions and Compliance
(e) Prior to further flight as of January 29, 2007 (the effective date of this
AD), unless already done, do the following actions.
(1) Replace the EVANS NPG+ cooling liquid in accordance with the instructions of
Stemme F&D Service Bulletin A31-10-076 Am. Index: 01.a, dated October 9, 2006
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89597#89597
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: U.S. Nav web site |
OK, I'll try that again...
http://skyvector.com/
I suspect that it was missing for the same reason I am
retiring, but I just can't remember what it is.... :-)
Kurt S.
--- Fox5flyer <fox5flyer@i-star.com> wrote:
> Hey Kurt, the URL didn't show up on my message.
> Could you add it again?
> Deke
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow, continued. |
On Jan 22, 2007, at 11:00 PM, Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> This next one drawing show the same system with a missing left fuel
> cap; Fuel_2.jpg
Torgeir, your second drawing comes as a corrupted file on my computer.
Could you check and send it again, please?
Med vennlig hilsen,
Michel
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow, continued. |
Thanks for this excellent description Togier. The senario you described is
exactly what caused my engine failure.
Regards
Graeme Toft
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:00 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow, continued.
> The Kitfox tank system with two wing tanks and one header tank, is using
> both the head pressure and the gravity to ensure adequate fuel pressure
> for our engine.
>
> At first this might seem simple and easy, -but is it?
>
> Let's have a look at the system as it is today; with two wing tanks, the
> previous wing tank valves removed and the header vented to the right tank.
>
> Now, can you see that the header tank is filled by the gravity only??
>
> If everything is as it "should" be this system will work fine.
>
> Here is a principle drawing of a "normal" working system; Fuel_1.jpg
>
> However, what will happen and how -if we forgot to install one of the tank
> cap (let's assume the left) ?
>
> OK., everyone know that our tank will start loosing fuel, but how? Well,
> remember that our right tank is at "static pressure", in addition it is
> pressurized "a little" by the head pressure entering through our "vent"
> line installed in the fuel cap.
>
> So here's a pressure difference of approx.: (0.2 - 0.3) psi air pressure
> between each wing tank, the high pressure is in the right tank, therefore
> fuel transfer from right to the left tank will take place.
>
> You see, here the left tank will continue overfill until the right tank is
> empty. After the right tank is exhausted, the level in the header will
> decrease to the "height" position of the input line coming from left main
> tank.
>
> Now, we'll have a continuos airflow from right to the left main preventing
> much fuel from the left tank to flow into the header, soon the header is
> empty -and the engine stop.
>
> This next one drawing show the same system with a missing left fuel cap;
> Fuel_2.jpg
>
> Next time (in a couple of days), we'll have a look at other and more
> interesting failure modes in this same system, and later on the old
> system...
>
>
> Torgeir
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow, continued. |
On my fox I installed valves on the left and right fuel lines going to the
header tank and everthing else is the same as Torgeir's nice diagram. What
will happen if I turn off one of the valves off? Would there be a differenc
e if I turn off the right side vs left side? Can I remove a cap and shut of
f the valve and be okay? I take this very serious as I know of a person tha
t left their cap off their fox and had an engine out. After they replaced t
he cap they were able to fly the again with no extra fuel needed so not sur
e if they just lost pressure or if they lost fuel while flying.=0ARobert N2
00KF=0A0200 Model V=0ASan Diego=0ADo not Archive=0A=0A=0A----- Original Mes
sage ----=0AFrom: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>=0ATo: "kitfox-list
@matronics.com" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Monday, January 22, 200
7 2:00:09 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Flow, continued.=0A=0A=0AThe Kitf
ox tank system with two wing tanks and one header tank, is using =0Aboth t
he head pressure and the gravity to ensure adequate fuel pressure =0Afor o
ur engine.=0A=0AAt first this might seem simple and easy, -but is it?=0A=0A
Let's have a look at the system as it is today; with two wing tanks, the
=0Aprevious wing tank valves removed and the header vented to the right tan
k.=0A=0ANow, can you see that the header tank is filled by the gravity only
??=0A=0AIf everything is as it "should" be this system will work fine.=0A
=0AHere is a principle drawing of a "normal" working system; Fuel_1.jpg=0A
=0AHowever, what will happen and how -if we forgot to install one of the ta
nk =0Acap (let's assume the left) ?=0A=0AOK., everyone know that our tank
will start loosing fuel, but how? Well, =0Aremember that our right tank i
s at "static pressure", in addition it is =0Apressurized "a little" by the
head pressure entering through our "vent" =0Aline installed in the fuel c
ap.=0A=0ASo here's a pressure difference of approx.: (0.2 - 0.3) psi air pr
essure =0Abetween each wing tank, the high pressure is in the right tank,
therefore =0Afuel transfer from right to the left tank will take place.=0A
=0AYou see, here the left tank will continue overfill until the right tank
is =0Aempty. After the right tank is exhausted, the level in the header w
ill =0Adecrease to the "height" position of the input line coming from lef
t main =0Atank.=0A=0ANow, we'll have a continuos airflow from right to the
left main preventing =0Amuch fuel from the left tank to flow into the hea
der, soon the header is =0Aempty -and the engine stop.=0A=0AThis next one
drawing show the same system with a missing left fuel cap; =0AFuel_2.jpg
=0A=0ANext time (in a couple of days), we'll have a look at other and more
=0Ainteresting failure modes in this same system, and later on the old
=0Asystem...=0A=0A=0A=0ATorgeir=0A=0A=0A=0A-- =0AUsing Opera's revolutionar
y e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/=0A=0A=0A =0A___________________
_________________________________________________________________=0ADon't g
et soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast=0Awith the Yahoo! Search weat
her shortcut.=0Ahttp://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Message 12
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| Subject: | Fuel Pump needed |
That tank would probaly work great. It would fit on the right seat.
Just
need a small transfer pump? JIm
What about a little Facet Pump No 40171 This one has valves both ways
so you get no flow in or out when no power to pump.
Rex.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow, continued. |
At 02:00 PM 1/22/2007, you wrote:
>Now, we'll have a continuos airflow from right to the left main preventing
>much fuel from the left tank to flow into the header, soon the header is
>empty -and the engine stop.
Torgeir,
Thanks for staying with this. It's important. It's pretty clear
from your example that we want a cross vent so the tank ullages are both at
the same pressure, the way Cessna does it. And in retrospect it would have
been easy to do, too. All you would have had to do was duplicate the tank
inboard vent on the other side, then run a tube straight across the back
spar from vent to vent. T off that for the header vent and presto, no fuel
transfer once the vent transfers vapor.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow, continued. |
A simple safety that will help in the event of leaving a fuel cap off
is to put a fuel cap fairing on. This also stops or reduces fuel loss
around a leaking fuel cap gasket, especially in rough air. I was lucky
that I had done this as one of my sons did his first solo cross country
in the Kitfox, and in the excitement of the trip and an interruption
while fueling with someone wanting to look at the plane he forgot to put
one fuel cap on. On the 1 1/2 hour flight back over the mountains he did
not loose more than a gallon or so and returned without problems. I did
not put them on for that reason, but sometimes you get lucky. On some
Cessna high wing planes I understand that it can not only empty the fuel
tank in something like 7 minutes, but the sucking also holds up the fuel
sensor giving the pilot a full fuel indication until the deafening
silence starts.
I should say that is an assumption I have made about the fuel cap
fairing, but I have not done wind tunnel or computer testing. If someone
has the capability to do so I would be interested in the results. You
know what they say about assumptions.
> *
> *
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews |
REx, I have been looking at the dougles site and am a bit confused as all
their wheels seem to be four lug. Mine are six lug. Can you help?
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews
If you have the original 8 inch kitfox rims then they are Douglas wheels
6061 aluminum wheels welded together in the middle . Blue lable .125 thick .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: Rex Shaw
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews
I have 8" Douglas chrome steel rims. The original buffed down 2 ply ATV
tyres always leaked..
Rex
Australia.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews |
Douglas does not sell a six hole rim . the only thing to buy is the 8x8 , 3
hole at 90 mm and jig up and drill the other holes yourself , and weld on
the mounting lugs for the brake rotors . these rims are sold in 10 different
hole styles but NO 6 HOLE .
John Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: King Fox tire reviewsKing Fox tire reviews
>
> REx, I have been looking at the dougles site and am a bit confused as
> all their wheels seem to be four lug. Mine are six lug. Can you help?
Message 17
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| Subject: | Upgrade IV to V ? |
I have a Kitfox IV-1200 which I bought used and it's a 6 or 7 out of 10.
I have a chance to upgrade to a very nice V Vixen model which is a 10 and fits
the LSA category. I had no chance to fly this bird yet and have to travel to do
so.
Are there major differences between the IV and V in terms of performance and flight
characetristics, adverse yaw, performacne etc. ???
In other words, is it worth the upgrade ??
Thanks
--------
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89655#89655
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ransj
lqaejx
ctyurr kqrsjkg
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Liquid Cooling |
I purchased one from Skystar. I would think the new Kitfox would have them
available.
Lowell 560KF
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Liquid Cooling |
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/airsoob/photos/browse/32fc
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89691#89691
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