---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/31/07: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:13 AM - Re: Re: stitching ribs (Dave G.) 2. 06:03 AM - Dimension of speedster tips (Gill Levesque) 3. 06:58 AM - Jet Man? (KITFOXZ@aol.com) 4. 07:07 AM - Re: Dimension of speedster tips (Michel Verheughe) 5. 07:11 AM - Re: Jet Man? (mscotter@comcast.net) 6. 07:30 AM - Re: Lowell .......... : stitching ribsstitching ribs (Michael Gibbs) 7. 08:37 AM - Re: Dimension of speedster tips (Jimmie Blackwell) 8. 08:56 AM - Re: Jet Man? (kurt schrader) 9. 09:33 AM - Re: Dimension of speedster tips (kurt schrader) 10. 10:09 AM - Kitfoxes in Southern New Zealand? (sourdostan@aol.com) 11. 12:08 PM - Re: Dimension of speedster tips (Lowell Fitt) 12. 12:34 PM - Re: Kitfoxes in Southern New Zealand? (Lowell Fitt) 13. 01:46 PM - Re: Dimension of speedster tips (Michel Verheughe) 14. 01:47 PM - Re: Oshkosh Skiplane trip...off topic? (Michel Verheughe) 15. 02:18 PM - Re: Dimension of speedster tips (Barry West) 16. 02:55 PM - Re: Jet Man? (KITFOXZ@aol.com) 17. 03:52 PM - Fuel flow, summary so far. (Torgeir Mortensen) 18. 05:20 PM - Re: Fuel System Questions=gasolator (Cudnohufsky's) 19. 05:28 PM - Re: stitching ribs (john perry) 20. 05:34 PM - Re: Looking for a Kitfox (Bill Pleso) 21. 05:52 PM - Re: Fuel flow, summary so far. (James Shumaker) 22. 06:01 PM - Fuel Valves (Rex Shaw) 23. 06:08 PM - Enough! (Fox5flyer) 24. 06:20 PM - Re: Fuel flow, summary so far. (Lowell Fitt) 25. 06:28 PM - Re: Dimension of speedster tips (Paul) 26. 06:50 PM - Model IV for sale (Bill Pleso) 27. 06:53 PM - Re: Fuel flow, summary so far. (Noel Loveys) 28. 09:52 PM - Re: Fuel flow, summary so far. (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:47 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: stitching ribs Hi Dave, you sure know how to start a debate! I heard back from John Falconar about the Hipec method. He states that I can use his covering method on the structure I have primed with Stits epoxy primer and epoxy varnish with the proviso that I scuff up areas of attachment a little. Now the Hipec method does not ask for any stitching or finish tapes. I have seen a Coot with just this method and it's held up very well to ten years of hangar rash. A young and energetic has built a Rans S6 using it and he's pleased with it. I haven't decided yet, but if I use the Polyfiber method it would make sense to use the full method. If someone wanted to avoid the extra work of finish tapes and lacing it would make sense to use a method that does not ask for them I would think. In my case the extra work will not be a determining factor. I have the Hipec book coming and will decide when I have all the information. I did have occasion to pull some fabric free of structure and in peel it come free with only moderate effort. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "dave" Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:05 PM > I fly mine with out stitching over 250 to 300 hours per year and no > troubles. > If I was to recover would i stitch ? Possibly but in a 582 I doubt it. > The 1 inch wide capstrip does a excellent job at adhesion. > Look at many Ultralights with 1/2 " Round tube with fabric "glued to them > only" not to mention alum ribs that are only 1/2 " ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:18 AM PST US From: Gill Levesque Subject: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips Hi All, I want to build a set of fiberglass speedster wing tips for my Model 4!( droop tips now) Could some one with time on their hands measure their tips for me and give me some Dimensions! 1......angle from bottom to top surface 2......distance from inboard edge to out board edge (top suface only needed) 3...... radius at leading edge 4...... thickness of fibreglass I am going to carve these tips from blue foam and glass them ,then remove the foam! Has anyone done this ?Any suggestion are greatly appreciated! Many thanks Gil Levesque Model 4 1050 Rotax 582 --------------------------------- Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:26 AM PST US From: KITFOXZ@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Jet Man? Has anyone seen this? Comments? _http://www.jet-man.com/actuel.html_ (http://www.jet-man.com/actuel.html) John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Outback, (out back in the garage) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:43 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips > From: Gill Levesque [canpilot03@yahoo.ca] > I am going to carve these tips from blue foam and glass them > ,then remove the foam! I don't know what "blue foam" is, Gil, but you should first test if it doesn't dissolve in the polyester or epoxy. I think that, for that respect, you're safer with epoxy. Why do you want to remove the foam after? If you leave it there, it makes a great sandwich construction and you can use a thinner layer of glassfiber , hence lighter. Working with glassfiber reinforced plastics, the general thumb rule is that you must have at least 70% of the weight as glassfiber. Because that is what gives strenght. The plastic is only to glue and keep in place the glassfiber. Cheers, Michel
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:10 AM PST US From: mscotter@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jet Man? I wanna see him do a loop! -------------- Original message -------------- From: KITFOXZ@aol.com Has anyone seen this? Comments? http://www.jet-man.com/actuel.html John P. Marzluf Columbus, Ohio Outback, (out back in the garage)
I wanna see him do a loop!
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: KITFOXZ@aol.com
Has anyone seen this?  Comments?
 
 
 
 
 
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:17 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lowell .......... : stitching ribsstitching ribs Dave sez: >How a bout a survey who is stitched and who is not? >I only stating that a vast majority of Kitfoxs are not stitched. >No BS from me , just the facts... I'm trying to figure out how to reconcile these statements. None of us have any idea if the majority of Kitfoxes are rib-stitched or not. You don't either or you wouldn't be proposing a survey. Such a survey would have to encompass more than just this list because we probably constitute a small subset of all Kitfox builders and operators. I'm pretty confident that very few 'fox builders or flyers have conducted any studies at all on the adhesive characteristics of Poly-tac, so all they have to offer is anecdotal evidence along the lines of, "Well, I have eleventy-seven hours on mine and they are fine." Poly-Fiber, on the other hand, know very well how the product behaves and they have told us how to use it, yet you dismiss their recommendation out of hand. Are you afraid this is just a marketing ploy to sell more stitching lace? If Kitfox, LLC recommends installing a widget in a certain way and I decide that I don't think it is necessary, I may do it differently but I sure wouldn't be trying to talk others into my deviation from the instructions. Would I have some liability if another builder follows my advice (which worked fine for me) and suffers damage as a result? Maybe, but hey, I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on television... I'm trying to figure out what your motivation is for dissuading other potential stitchers. Are you offended by airplanes that are stitched when you walk past them on the ramp? Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:22 AM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips Gil I will try to get the measurements you need tomorrow or Friday, Wx permitting. Wx here in Central Texas is to cold for this cowboy to go flying or even be in the hangar. Please elaborate a little more on the measurement you need for the, "radius at leading edge". Jimmie ----- Original Message ----- From: Gill Levesque To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:55 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips Hi All, I want to build a set of fiberglass speedster wing tips for my Model 4!( droop tips now) Could some one with time on their hands measure their tips for me and give me some Dimensions! 1......angle from bottom to top surface 2......distance from inboard edge to out board edge (top suface only needed) 3...... radius at leading edge 4...... thickness of fibreglass I am going to carve these tips from blue foam and glass them ,then remove the foam! Has anyone done this ?Any suggestion are greatly appreciated! Many thanks Gil Levesque Model 4 1050 Rotax 582 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:05 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jet Man? Yes John, Saw it. Wondered if it wasnt being used by Force Recon. Found they are using something similar... Is that a VLJ (very light jet) or what? Bet you have to run like a gooney bird to take off. :-) (Ok, ok, he gets dropped) Kurt S. USMC (ret) Do not archive --- KITFOXZ@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone seen this? Comments? > > _http://www.jet-man.com/actuel.html_ > (http://www.jet-man.com/actuel.html) > > > > > John P. Marzluf > Columbus, Ohio > Outback, (out back in the garage) Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:16 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips Hi Gill, You might check with John McB first and see what his costs from the factory. Also John was going to produce some clear tips where you could install your wing lights inside and keep the tips clean from drag. Easy for walk around inspections too. Third, I think 2 layers of light weight S glass over the foam and leave the foam there would work. (AKA Michels idea) You can carve hunks out of the foam and leave "ribs" to lighten it up, if you want. I have been thinking of adding foam ribs to mine to reduce the concave upper surface problem mine has. Leaving the foam in assures you retain the shape. I have epoxied over foam, smoothed and light sanded to get a good surface, then glassed over that for a very nice finish on my rudder gap seal. Worked well. Not sure about the weight on a larger surface, but you can sand down the inside after you remove the foam if you go that way. Just some ideas... Kurt S. --- Gill Levesque wrote: > Hi All, > > I want to build a set of fiberglass speedster wing > tips for my Model 4!( droop tips now) ......... > I am going to carve these tips from blue foam and > glass them ,then remove the foam! > Has anyone done this ?Any suggestion are greatly > appreciated! > Many thanks > Gil Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:42 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfoxes in Southern New Zealand? From: sourdostan@aol.com I'm working at McMurdo Station, Antarctica, and will be leaving here February 12th to return to Christchurch, New Zealand. Is there anyone on the list that lives on the south island of New Zealand? If so, I'd like to hear from you to see about getting together. I've already made contact with John Anderson on the north island. I've found another Kitfoxer here, so at least I've had another person to talk to about my passion. There are quite a few pilots here, not to mention the ones that fly the HC-130s, twin otters, and Basler turbo DC-3 "skier" aircraft. They all land on the ice strips here, and the C-17s land on a permanent snow runway this time of year--quite interesting. And then there are the helos--well, you know where they land. Soon it'll be time to get back to Colorado and try my luck at flying my Model IV Speedster again after being gone for five months. Stan Specht McMurdo Station Antarctica do not archive ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:36 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips Gil, For some reason I didn't get your original post, just a couple of replies. What you are suggesting will work fine in my experience. I think the trick will be making them both the same so you don't introduce a roll tendency. The foam will help there. You may want to make some templates with the profile you want and match the left and right to minimize twist. For final finish, the glass airplane folks will use a thick mix of microballoons and epoxy to fill the weave. It is very light weight and very easy to sand. It sounds like a fun project. I'd say go for it. Lowell > --- Gill Levesque wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I want to build a set of fiberglass speedster wing >> tips for my Model 4!( droop tips now) > ......... >> I am going to carve these tips from blue foam and >> glass them ,then remove the foam! >> Has anyone done this ?Any suggestion are greatly >> appreciated! >> Many thanks >> Gil > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:25 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfoxes in Southern New Zealand? Stan, Wow. Talk about an adventure. I seem to think there is one builder on the South Island. I have a good friend there, but he is into boats, however. I sailed with him on a trans Pacific yacht race. We visited him a couple of years ago and you are definitely in for a treat. He is in Lyttleton - just South of Christchurch. I took a hundred or more pictures while there and every one was a keeper and are all used on the screensaver on my Mac. Gorgeous is an understatement and the folks there are supurb. Lowell do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfoxes in Southern New Zealand? > I'm working at McMurdo Station, Antarctica, and will be leaving here > February 12th to return to Christchurch, New Zealand. Is there anyone on > the list that lives on the south island of New Zealand? If so, I'd like to > hear from you to see about getting together. I've already made contact > with John Anderson on the north island. I've found another Kitfoxer here, > so at least I've had another person to talk to about my passion. There are > quite a few pilots here, not to mention the ones that fly the HC-130s, > twin otters, and Basler turbo DC-3 "skier" aircraft. They all land on the > ice strips here, and the C-17s land on a permanent snow runway this time > of year--quite interesting. And then there are the helos--well, you know > where they land. Soon it'll be time to get back to Colorado and try my > luck at flying my Model IV Speedster again after being gone for five > months. > > Stan Specht > McMurdo Station > Antarctica > > do not archive > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:20 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips On Jan 31, 2007, at 9:06 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > For final finish, the glass airplane folks will use a thick mix of > microballoons and epoxy to fill the weave. It is very light weight > and very easy to sand I did the finish on my customised cowling with West Systems microballoons and epoxy. Great stuff! Go for it, Gil! Michel ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:19 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh Skiplane trip...off topic? On Jan 31, 2007, at 3:18 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > ..my gyrations with the damned SCAT hose had caught the fuel valve and > pulled it closed. Wow! Scary stuff, Lynn! Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:09 PM PST US From: "Barry West" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips Blue foam works fine. Barry West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips >> From: Gill Levesque [canpilot03@yahoo.ca] >> I am going to carve these tips from blue foam and glass them >> ,then remove the foam! > > I don't know what "blue foam" is, Gil, but you should first test if it > doesn't dissolve in the polyester or epoxy. I think that, for that > respect, you're safer with epoxy. Why do you want to remove the foam > after? If you leave it there, it makes a great sandwich construction and > you can use a thinner layer of glassfiber , hence lighter. Working with > glassfiber reinforced plastics, the general thumb rule is that you must > have at least 70% of the weight as glassfiber. Because that is what gives > strenght. The plastic is only to glue and keep in place the glassfiber. > > Cheers, > Michel > > > 

>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:59 PM PST US From: KITFOXZ@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jet Man? In a message dated 1/31/2007 11:58:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes: Yes John, Saw it. Wondered if it wasn=B4t being used by Force Recon. Found they are using something similar... Is that a VLJ (very light jet) or what? Bet you have to run like a gooney bird to take off. :-) (Ok, ok, he gets dropped) Kurt S. USMC (ret) Do not archive Only USMC Force Recon boys would have the b*lls to suit up in that VLJ and leap out of a PGA! (perfectly good aircraft) I would like to see him land without the chute! One of my favorite fun movies is The Rocketeer. John P. Marzluf also USMC VMAQ2 10 years! Columbus, Ohio Outback, (out back in the garage) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:44 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel flow, summary so far. From: "Torgeir Mortensen" Hi Folks, I've just finished two new sketches of the "failure modes", then the old "original" Denney setup and the cross vented main tank setup as I'll like to see it. The first drawing show a leaky gasket in the right tank, in this situation we'll be able to use fuel from the right tank until empty. The next drawings has some explanation text included in the drawing itself. This first drawing show the situation with a leaky right hand fuel cap gasket, the second drawing is same situation -with left side this time, the third drawing is the original Denney fuel system setup as far as I'll know, and finally the fuel system of to day but cross vented as I'll like it to be. Now folks, remember this failure modes can be tested safely on ground for everyone to see... You could also test the benefit of a cross vented system.. There is one thing to be said in general, if your system is kept in good condition (maintenance well) both system will serve you fine. However, if things "worn" over time -no one can assure for correct function.. Next time I'll like to address some other items in the fuel system. (PS. Will be travelling for some days.) Torgeir. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:58 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel System Questions=gasolator All, Thanks for all the replys. Another question, I was under the impression that a gascolator's filtering screen was such that it would allow fuel to pass but not water. I found this artical that seems to elude to that thought. Thoughts? Lloyd http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html Do not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:39 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel System Questions=gasolator > > Good question Lloyd. The setup you have sounds like pretty much of a > stock > S5 or most other Kitfoxes. If the header tank has a belly drain (as > designed) then it is the lowest spot in the system and shouldn't need a > gascolator. You might want to install a quality fuel filter on the > engine > side of firewall as a last point of defense, but that's a personal thing. > Deke > > >> All, >> Earlier in the thread on fuel systems there was mention of gasolators, I > was >> wondering what people are running on thier 912's. I have a 5 with duel > wing >> tanks and the header behind the seat. Currently do not have a gascolator > but >> was looking to add one. >> Any thoughts? >> >> Lloyd > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:51 PM PST US From: "john perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: stitching ribs This is a quote from you DAVE " I have no trouble flying without stitching. And remeber Poly fibrre is most likely being over cautious for liability reasoning. I don't think that if you not stitched that there is any case for alarm at all. " Dave DAVE you are talking out of both sides of your ass and neither one is winning. When I suggested using the same sparkplugs but a different part number than rotaxes you hammered on me for not Buying and following rotaxes recommended parts . SO where are you going to make up your mind on this . You cannot say to only use rotax parts but when it comes to your wings and the fabric manufacturer I" Dave" know whats best and dont listen to the factory they are only saying this for liability reasons . And to change the subject while I am at it I would really like to see you land and take off in a TRUE 1 FOOT OF WATER. The damage done would be something to behold lol. Now if you are skip landing and the flying off that is another thing . But to say you are landing and taking off from this is a little bit much on the story telling side. John Perry ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:47 PM PST US From: "Bill Pleso" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Looking for a Kitfox Subject: Kitfox-List: Looking for a Kitfox Don, Is he looking for one that is already built or a project (never been built [about 2% complete])? Bill Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:05 PM PST US From: James Shumaker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel flow, summary so far. Excellent Torgier=0A=0AAnother keeper for my archives and another change to be made on my plane.=0A=0AJim Shumaker ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:00 PM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Valves You're right, I shouldn't have said "suck" fuel. Probably no issue, but I figured the valve was easy to plumb in, and I like the idea of being in control of it, and I have a little redundancy if one tank goes, or a cap gets left off or skewed. With the different sized tanks, I can control the weight imbalance to a certain extent. Haven't needed to yet, but just in case. I just basically designed my system to know exactly what I have, and the ability to control it, or fix a possible problem by switching tanks. It's not totally fool proof, but. I do like the idea of you guys who can just use both at the same time, and the header stays full with no input. I may go that route at some point, just to not mess with it. But I'd like to have equal volume tanks on both sides. Bradley As a matter of fact I have a valve in each wing tank line to the header but never use them. I also have a main valve at the bottom centre of the panel that I also never use except for maintainence. I do check the valves are on before flying but I figure by leaving them on I can't forget to turn them on. I know I'm relying on the needles and seats but they are fine except once just a couple of weeks ago when the back carby was flooding on climb out. However turning the valves off while in the hanger would not have affected that. I do like all the valves I have however. I can't see any reason to not have them and they could be very handy. Just my opinion and preference. Rex. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:59 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Enough! OK OK OK, enough already. I hate having to put on my Moderator hat, but when things start getting personal it's time this whole rib stitching thing winds up and we move on. Anybody that has anything to add to this, do it privately off list, OK? Enough! Deke Morisse Kitfox List Janitor This is a quote from you DAVE " I have no trouble flying without stitching. And remeber Poly fibrre is most likely being over cautious for liability reasoning. I don't think that if you not stitched that there is any case for alarm at all. " Dave DAVE you are talking out of both sides of your ass and neither one is winning. When I suggested using the same sparkplugs but a different part number than rotaxes you hammered on me for not Buying and following rotaxes recommended parts . SO where are you going to make up your mind on this . You cannot say to only use rotax parts but when it comes to your wings and the fabric manufacturer I" Dave" know whats best and dont listen to the factory they are only saying this for liability reasons . And to change the subject while I am at it I would really like to see you land and take off in a TRUE 1 FOOT OF WATER. The damage done would be something to behold lol. Now if you are skip landing and the flying off that is another thing . But to say you are landing and taking off from this is a little bit much on the story telling side. John Perry ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:27 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel flow, summary so far. Torgeir, I think I see a problem with your figure (fuel_4). My water manometer shows a column of water 4.5" tall will create the pressure at the pitot tube to register 100 mph. which is a bit more than the avarage Kitfox will fly (sorry to the 5 through 8 guys, but average is average and you guys will come in later). A rough estimate gives a column of fuel at say 6 inches at that speed. Conversely an airplane flying at 100 mph will has the ability to lift a column of fuel about 6 inches. What that indicates to me - if the header tank is full and the left tank is full as you show, there will be fuel to some level in both the fuel line and the vent line on the right side due to head pressure from the full tank. The level will be somethiing like 6: below the tank fuel level. As I measure it I have about 10 inches from the level of the fuel tank outlet to the header tank inlet. There is insufficient pressure generated from the "pitot tube" type air vent on the non leaking tank to force a breach into the header tank as long is there is at least some fuel in the (leaking gasket) tank and the airspeed is no higher than, say 115 mph. Air at .04 psi won't lift a column of fuel 10 inches. Further all aircraft sold after about 1994 - the aircraft capable of higher speeds have the header tanks low behind the seats with a pressure head of more like 18 to 20 inches. With these airplanes the .04 psi from the intact fuel cap won't force air in the fuel line or vent line more than about 11inches below the fuel level in the system even at VNE. I doubt there is any way to introduce air into the full tank to header tank feed line in our airplanes in the scenario you illustrate. Also the diagram of the header tank reflects the round header tank of several models ago consistent with the diagram of (Fuel_5) The newer header tank has the inlets from both tanks on the top surface as well as the vent line. Provision is made for a quick drain on the bottom and fuel outlet about an inch or two above that on the forward facing side. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torgeir Mortensen" Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel flow, summary so far. > Hi Folks, > > I've just finished two new sketches of the "failure modes", then the old > "original" Denney setup and the cross vented main tank setup as I'll like > to see it. > > The first drawing show a leaky gasket in the right tank, in this situation > we'll be able to use fuel from the right tank until empty. The next > drawings has some explanation text included in the drawing itself. > > This first drawing show the situation with a leaky right hand fuel cap > gasket, the second drawing is same situation -with left side this time, > the third drawing is the original Denney fuel system setup as far as I'll > know, and finally the fuel system of to day but cross vented as I'll like > it to be. > > Now folks, remember this failure modes can be tested safely on ground for > everyone to see... You could also test the benefit of a cross vented > system.. > > There is one thing to be said in general, if your system is kept in good > condition (maintenance well) both system will serve you fine. However, if > things "worn" over time -no one can assure for correct function.. > > > Next time I'll like to address some other items in the fuel system. > > (PS. Will be travelling for some days.) > > Torgeir. > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:06 PM PST US From: "Paul" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips I also want to do the same, but I was thinking of modifying the drop tips Paul N102DG ----- Original Message ----- From: Gill Levesque To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:55 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Dimension of speedster tips Hi All, I want to build a set of fiberglass speedster wing tips for my Model 4!( droop tips now) Could some one with time on their hands measure their tips for me and give me some Dimensions! 1......angle from bottom to top surface 2......distance from inboard edge to out board edge (top suface only needed) 3...... radius at leading edge 4...... thickness of fibreglass I am going to carve these tips from blue foam and glass them ,then remove the foam! Has anyone done this ?Any suggestion are greatly appreciated! Many thanks Gil Levesque Model 4 1050 Rotax 582 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Now you can have a huge leap forward in email: get the new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:26 PM PST US From: "Bill Pleso" Subject: Kitfox-List: Model IV for sale For years I have wanted to build my own plane. I found a Model IV that was only about 1 - 2% complete. I wanted one like that so I didn't have to re-do a lot. We have several foster children and 2 adopted children (along with a thundering heard of our own) and I thought it would be a fun family project and a positive outlet for some of the foster kids. Unfortunately my wife recently became disabled, so all of my free (did I say free) time is spent helping with the kids, not to mention our income being cut in half. I don't want the plane to sit and rot, so it's with a tear in my eye that I say the kids come first and the plane will have to go. I have a great many extras and would be glad to go into more detail off-line. I have a Mosler VW conversion, the mount, cowl and 2 props. I realize that some people think that VW's and Kitfoxes don't mix, so I would be willing to sell the plane with or without the engine. The enclosed picture was taken the day we got the plane and most of what has been done was to take it apart and re-do it, so the plane looks pretty much the same now. I live in New Bern, N.C. which is very near rhe coast. Anyone who is interested can contact me off-line. Thanks, Bill ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:37 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel flow, summary so far. Torgeir: On the second diagram you showed the left tank dribbling fuel into the header tank. I expect that you won't get a pressurized head of air over the fuel in the tank but neither will you get a vacuum to hold the fuel up in the tank. Let alone suck air from the empty tank. Even though the cap isn't properly fitted the pitot effect should be enough to brake the low pressure ( hardly a vacuum) on the top of the wing. Why bother connecting a vent from the header to the cross vent in the last diagram? Once you have the cross vent tube installed the air pressure on top of the fuel should be consistent across both wing tanks regardless of whether or not one cap is not properly installed.. The header will self purge because you don't fill both tanks at exactly the same speed to trap air in the header.... That is assuming of course you ran or drained the header dry. One other thing... On my plane the inlets to the header tank are "almost" at the very top of the header tank.... The vent comes off the same level as the inlets. Nice diagrams. I do like the idea of the cross vent. Then again I like the idea of controlling the fuel flow too. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Torgeir Mortensen > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:22 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel flow, summary so far. > > > Hi Folks, > > I've just finished two new sketches of the "failure modes", > then the old > "original" Denney setup and the cross vented main tank setup > as I'll like > to see it. > > The first drawing show a leaky gasket in the right tank, in > this situation > we'll be able to use fuel from the right tank until empty. The next > drawings has some explanation text included in the drawing itself. > > This first drawing show the situation with a leaky right hand > fuel cap > gasket, the second drawing is same situation -with left side > this time, > the third drawing is the original Denney fuel system setup as > far as I'll > know, and finally the fuel system of to day but -cross vented > as I'll like > it to be. > > Now folks, remember this failure modes can be tested safely > on ground for > everyone to see... You could also test the benefit of a > cross vented > system.. > > There is one thing to be said in general, if your system is > kept in good > condition (maintenance well) both system will serve you fine. > However, if > things "worn" over time -no one can assure for correct function.. > > > Next time I'll like to address some other items in the fuel system. > > (PS. Will be travelling for some days.) > > Torgeir. > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:36 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel flow, summary so far. At 03:52 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote: >The first drawing show a leaky gasket in the right tank, in this situation >we'll be able to use fuel from the right tank until empty. The next >drawings has some explanation text included in the drawing itself. I agree with Lowell. My calc's, (already posted,) show you can't push air down to the header tank using dynamic pressure from the pitot vent. Therefore, though you can empty one tank, you can't drive air into the header and out the other tank, precluding its feed. You should therefore have about a 9" difference in fuel levels right to left until the lower level hits the header tank. On my aircraft that means you get to use one tank of fuel, right or left, since my header sits low behind the seat. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.