---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/04/07: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:24 AM - Re: epoxys (Michel Verheughe) 2. 06:10 AM - Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem (W & R Beck) 3. 06:43 AM - Re: Fuel flow, summary so far. (Bob) 4. 06:57 AM - Re: Vixen Information (Bob) 5. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: CG, sensation, and axes motion (Bradley M Webb) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Vixen Information (RRTRACK@aol.com) 7. 07:12 AM - Re: Landing Gear for Kitfox II (Mike) 8. 07:27 AM - Re: epoxys (Guy Buchanan) 9. 07:59 AM - Re: epoxys (Lowell Fitt) 10. 08:01 AM - Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem (Lowell Fitt) 11. 08:05 AM - Rad shutters (Marco Menezes) 12. 08:14 AM - Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem (Nick Scholtes) 13. 09:18 AM - Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem (James Shumaker) 14. 09:26 AM - Re: epoxys (Randy Daughenbaugh) 15. 09:40 AM - Re: Re: CG, sensation, and axes motion (Randy Daughenbaugh) 16. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: Vixen Information (Alan Daniels) 17. 10:02 AM - Re: Skiplane trip...coming home.. (Les Chambers) 18. 10:28 AM - Re: epoxys (Michel Verheughe) 19. 10:43 AM - Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem (Michael Gibbs) 20. 11:12 AM - Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem (kitfoxmike) 21. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem (W & R Beck) 22. 02:29 PM - Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem (Wwillyard@aol.com) 23. 04:23 PM - Re: epoxys (Noel Loveys) 24. 04:44 PM - Re: RPM indicators for Rotax engines. (Noel Loveys) 25. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: Skiplane trip...coming home.. (Noel Loveys) 26. 05:06 PM - Re: epoxys (Dan Billingsley) 27. 09:17 PM - Re: RPM indicators for Rotax engines. (Mdkitfox@aol.com) 28. 09:39 PM - Re: epoxys (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:22 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: epoxys On Feb 4, 2007, at 12:48 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > Can you elaberate on it's hazards and maybe stear me to a MSDS. Bradley has a point about microballoons being a potential health hazard if inhaled, Lowell. But how much of a hazard? As an illustrator, before the age of the digital art, I used often glassfiber erasers when inking. I was told to be very careful with the dust it made. Then, in the yachting industry (as I designed sailboats, I had to experience the making of them) there was a lot of GRP hulls that had to be trimmed, etc. and a lot of polyester and glassfiber dust in the air, in those places. Some wore masks, some didn't. But glass is silicate and I read that the lungs of Egyptian mummies are not very pretty to look at; A lot of soot from indoor cooking, and a lot of silicate from the desert sand. So, I think we should be careful with microballoons and all kind of silicate dust. But we don't need to be hysterical, it is not like asbestos. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:33 AM PST US From: "W & R Beck" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem Thanks, Lowell, the keyring idea appeals to my friend. I take it from your post that this is a common problem, just 'the way things are' with the 912 choke. That gives a sense of relief. The Nylaflow tubing in the bent tubes is another good idea, takes away a bit of the friction, right? Like the nylon tubing in the V brake bent tubes of my mountain bike. One question: why did the tubing need to be slit? To reduce its diameter so it would fit? Robert Beck Go Bears means 'go polar bears in your fight for survival in the frigid north'. Do not archive > Hey, what's this go Bears stuff - just kidding. > > The choke is a tough one. I'll tell you what I did. First, I drilled a > hole throught the base of the knob and threadded a key ring through that. > A finger through the ring gives a much better purchase. Another thing I > did was to take a piece of Nylaflow tubing - some really fine stuff and > slit it with a Dremel type cut off wheel and threaded it into the bent > tubes with the unslit - good side toward the bend. All in all the ring > was the hand saver. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "W & R Beck" > To: "Kitfox List" > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 5:23 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem > > > Folks: > > A quick question: I have a friend with a completed Classic IV who is > getting close to first engine start. Recently we have been going over his > Rotax 912 installation with a fine tooth comb. Today we tackled his > cockpit mounted 'choke' (enrichener) control, which had I noticed is > extremely difficult to pull, and hold, out (choke ON). It is set up to > the right of the throttle and has quite a small knob. Skystar supplied. At > first I suspected his cable routing or binding in the cables but they sure > looked alright, with relatively gentle bends to each carb. Next we > disconnected the choke lever return springs at each carb. MUCH easier but > still not baby-smooth. Then we disconnected the cables from the choke > levers on the carbs. The levers are free and not binding in any way. > > We buttoned it all back up, adjusted the throws so each lever is being > pulled equally through its entire stroke, attached the springs and, man, > that choke control seems to take 50+lbs or more of force to actuate. Those > 2 little return springs add up to powerful resistance. In fact, my friend > cannot pull it out and needs to grab it with a wrench. I am pretty beefy > and I can pull it out but it seems like way too much effort to do so and > too much effort to hold it out. Part of the problem is the very small knob > on the control supplied by Skystar. If it were the size of a ping-pong > ball it would be much easier. > > Since his basic installation seems sound, done and modified per Skystar, > and no individual items in the system seem to be binding, it got me > wondering if others have run into the same problem. Do you need to be a > gorilla to actuate the choke? Anything to suggest or a modification to > make? How do you 912 drivers handle starting with the right hand all taken > up straining at the choke? > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Robert Beck > > Go Bears! > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:09 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel flow, summary so far. From: "Bob" In Cessnas, Kitfoxes, and the like, your head, the CG, and the CL are all within a few inches. Basically, the airplane maneuvers about this small sphere that your head is in and yaw is not as pronounced. In the Glasair, Lancair, and some of the other pocket rockets, the pilot's inner ear is actually pretty far aft of this; naturally the pilot can better feel yaw. As an interesting aside, yaw dampers in airliners typically only have max rudder authority of a few degrees, but turn them off and people in the ends of the cabin can get sick or have trouble standing. The Kitfox was designed to be a light airplane and here comes the tie-in to altering an airplane's design. We all like to have "stuff" that adds weight. If we put that weight in the center of the airplane, it diminishes our useful load. However, as we add say a heavier engine in the front and ballast in the tail, bigger tailwheel, aft batteries, etc, we don't just diminish the useful load, we diminish the inertial stability of the design that the flight controls are sized to manipulate. Handling a cross-wind gust at low speed can come closer to the limits of rudder control, ground-loops become easier, and spin recovery takes more effort. Keeping your airplane light will help keep the inertia, and controllability, as it was designed to be. Bob Aero Eng, A&P Do not archive -------- Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92786#92786 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:14 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Vixen Information From: "Bob" Mark - I just came across your post and also have a very early Vixen (s/n 27). I learned from John McBean that the first 30 had a gross weight of only 1200 pounds. A clue is that the spar tube in front of the pilot's heads is 1" diameter. As for sweeping the wings forward, it should keep you closer to the aft cg. Good for trim loads and cruise speed, limiting for how much weight can go in the cargo compartment, and watch the weight and balance as it makes it easier to exceed the aft limit. Bob -------- Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92788#92788 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:00 AM PST US From: "Bradley M Webb" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CG, sensation, and axes motion Excellent points, especially as I just installed a heavier motor. I had to move the battery to the tail to balance it, so it is particularly relevant to what I've done. I can feel it, but I seem to respond to the visual cues, rather than the feeling of a slip/skid. Probably the way I was trained way back somewhere. It's interesting to fly the 707 during refueling at work, and sit in the back by the tail. The sensations are weird. As he pulls the nose up, the tail goes down, then up. Almost twice the movement as the middle. The front is "normal" feeling, but the back is backwards. Takes a bit to get used to it. Most call it the pit seat, and hate to sit there. I'm a roller coaster lover, so I think it's fun, especially in turbulence. Had a mission earlier this much in moderate turbulence over Nashville. I was in the pit seat, and after 2 hours, there were only three of us left who were not green and on oxygen. It wears you out badly, though. Haven't been that tired in a while. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel flow, summary so far. In Cessnas, Kitfoxes, and the like, your head, the CG, and the CL are all within a few inches. Basically, the airplane maneuvers about this small sphere that your head is in and yaw is not as pronounced. In the Glasair, Lancair, and some of the other pocket rockets, the pilot's inner ear is actually pretty far aft of this; naturally the pilot can better feel yaw. As an interesting aside, yaw dampers in airliners typically only have max rudder authority of a few degrees, but turn them off and people in the ends of the cabin can get sick or have trouble standing. The Kitfox was designed to be a light airplane and here comes the tie-in to altering an airplane's design. We all like to have "stuff" that adds weight. If we put that weight in the center of the airplane, it diminishes our useful load. However, as we add say a heavier engine in the front and ballast in the tail, bigger tailwheel, aft batteries, etc, we don't just diminish the useful load, we diminish the inertial stability of the design that the flight controls are sized to manipulate. Handling a cross-wind gust at low speed can come closer to the limits of rudder control, ground-loops become easier, and spin recovery takes more effort. Keeping your airplane light will help keep the inertia, and controllability, as it was designed to be. Bob Aero Eng, A&P Do not archive -------- Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92786#92786 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:43 AM PST US From: RRTRACK@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Vixen Information Hi BOB Thanks for the reply. All the weight and balance scenarios is near the rear of the CG limits. I will keep close watch of the CG when loading the baggage compartment. My Vixen is disappointing on cruise speeds. It cruises at 80 Knots at 5000 RPM indicated. I think about 90 knots at 5500 RPM. The struts are faired and it has the fiberglass main landing gear and all the wheel pants on. John McBean suggested the tack may be off. I get about 5200 RPM static and it had 430# of static thrust. What it does do well is land slow. It stalls at 35 MPH with full flaps and lands just under 40 MPH. Also the climb rate is around 1100 FPM with a 170# pilot and 10 gal of fuel. I have the 68" GSC three blade prop. How does this compare to your Vixen performance? Mark Wisconsin ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:43 AM PST US From: Mike Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Landing Gear for Kitfox II Alan, Thanks for the response. I would be interested in the gear, if it will fit. If you can send me some dimensions, and a picture, I can figure out whether they will work. Also, I have some indication that the KF# gear has a wider track, which would contribute to stability. If I need to make some changes to the fuselage to fit the gear, or relatively modest changes to the gear, I can do so. I am replacing a lot of the tube structure in that part of the fuselage anyway. (Actually, my friend who is an A&P, and a certified PV welder will do the work). Mike On Feb 4, 2007, at 12:47 AM, Alan Daniels wrote: > > > Correction they might be for a model 3. I don't know if it will > fit. I can measure them up to see if they will work. > > Alan > > Mike wrote: >> >> I am rebuilding a badly damaged KitFox II, S/N 89. One of the >> problems is that the right landing gear was partially rebuilt, and >> is not the same as the left landing gear, which was undamaged. I >> would like to avoid building a jig to make a new gear, and >> wondered if anyone had a gear available, and in good condition. I >> don't need the tire, wheel, or brakes. Alternatively, does anyone >> have a drawing, sketch, or the necessary dimensions to allow me to >> make a new one? >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:29 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: epoxys At 05:00 PM 2/3/2007, you wrote: >but I do remember that the result >of that discussion was that the small glass beads are like breathing diamond >dust, and really chews up the lining in the lungs, a similar thing to what >happened to miners years back with no protection. I treat anything inorganic and small as a hazard, even if there's no notice. My weak understanding is that silicosis results from inhaled inorganic matter that's so small it can make it all the way to the alveoli where it is encapsulated by the lungs, thereby blocking off that region. It can't be expelled because it's beyond the "pipes", in an area where you can't generate enough velocity to expel it. (That's what normally happens with "larger" particles.) Some organic matter can be absorbed by the lungs. Anything inorganic small enough to "float" in the air I treat as a hazard. I don't think microballoons will actually float, but the problem is that in a typical batch of microballoons a significant fraction are broken. It's the "pieces" I worry about, and I don't know that I could see them if they were floating. (If you buy Q-cell, the percentage of broken balloons is certified to be very low.) I hope someone can come up with definitive information, but in my case I'll stay on the side of caution. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:52 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: epoxys Thanks Michel, I just get troubled with statements out of the blue like "don't use .... I would think if the hazard was strong enough for a statement like that there would be some research out there - sort of like MEK and cancer. A scary urban legend, but not based on any research I have been able to find including the MSDS. Sometimes I get the idea poeple wish we could all stay in bed in filtered air eating organic food with little taste and somehow find life enjoyable and fulfilling. I guess if a guy saw this stuff at work everyday for thirty five years, it might prove a problem but the occasional use while in the building process...? Another search did find the MSDS on a produce called Syl Cell Microballoons and others. See link below. I have experienced the acute affects to a slight degree. The trick to mixing is to proportion the resin in a cup, add the micro and then simply walk forward around the work area while mixing you will be moving into an area of clean air as you mix. No problem. I do use a mask while sanding. http://www.eagerplastics.com/silcelmsds.htm http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/pdf/msds/3MGlassBubbles.pdf http://msds.ogden.disa.mil/msds/owa/web_msds.display?imsdsnr=191069 Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:23 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: epoxys > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 12:48 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: >> Can you elaberate on it's hazards and maybe stear me to a MSDS. > > Bradley has a point about microballoons being a potential health hazard > if inhaled, Lowell. But how much of a hazard? > > As an illustrator, before the age of the digital art, I used often > glassfiber erasers when inking. I was told to be very careful with the > dust it made. Then, in the yachting industry (as I designed sailboats, I > had to experience the making of them) there was a lot of GRP hulls that > had to be trimmed, etc. and a lot of polyester and glassfiber dust in the > air, in those places. Some wore masks, some didn't. > > But glass is silicate and I read that the lungs of Egyptian mummies are > not very pretty to look at; A lot of soot from indoor cooking, and a lot > of silicate from the desert sand. > > So, I think we should be careful with microballoons and all kind of > silicate dust. But we don't need to be hysterical, it is not like > asbestos. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:43 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem One more thing I forgot. I used a length of black vinyl tubing threaded over the keyring to match the black. I canit recall if it was a left over piece of the tubing used for the pitot tube line or some drip irrigation tubing. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "W & R Beck" Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 6:03 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem > > > Thanks, Lowell, the keyring idea appeals to my friend. I take it from your > post that this is a common problem, just 'the way things are' with the 912 > choke. That gives a sense of relief. > > The Nylaflow tubing in the bent tubes is another good idea, takes away a > bit of the friction, right? Like the nylon tubing in the V brake bent > tubes of my mountain bike. One question: why did the tubing need to be > slit? To reduce its diameter so it would fit? > > Robert Beck > > Go Bears means 'go polar bears in your fight for survival in the frigid > north'. > > Do not archive > > >> Hey, what's this go Bears stuff - just kidding. >> >> The choke is a tough one. I'll tell you what I did. First, I drilled a >> hole throught the base of the knob and threadded a key ring through that. >> A finger through the ring gives a much better purchase. Another thing I >> did was to take a piece of Nylaflow tubing - some really fine stuff and >> slit it with a Dremel type cut off wheel and threaded it into the bent >> tubes with the unslit - good side toward the bend. All in all the ring >> was the hand saver. >> >> Lowell >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "W & R Beck" >> To: "Kitfox List" >> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 5:23 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem >> >> >> Folks: >> >> A quick question: I have a friend with a completed Classic IV who is >> getting close to first engine start. Recently we have been going over his >> Rotax 912 installation with a fine tooth comb. Today we tackled his >> cockpit mounted 'choke' (enrichener) control, which had I noticed is >> extremely difficult to pull, and hold, out (choke ON). It is set up to >> the right of the throttle and has quite a small knob. Skystar supplied. >> At first I suspected his cable routing or binding in the cables but they >> sure looked alright, with relatively gentle bends to each carb. Next we >> disconnected the choke lever return springs at each carb. MUCH easier but >> still not baby-smooth. Then we disconnected the cables from the choke >> levers on the carbs. The levers are free and not binding in any way. >> >> We buttoned it all back up, adjusted the throws so each lever is being >> pulled equally through its entire stroke, attached the springs and, man, >> that choke control seems to take 50+lbs or more of force to actuate. >> Those 2 little return springs add up to powerful resistance. In fact, my >> friend cannot pull it out and needs to grab it with a wrench. I am pretty >> beefy and I can pull it out but it seems like way too much effort to do >> so and too much effort to hold it out. Part of the problem is the very >> small knob on the control supplied by Skystar. If it were the size of a >> ping-pong ball it would be much easier. >> >> Since his basic installation seems sound, done and modified per Skystar, >> and no individual items in the system seem to be binding, it got me >> wondering if others have run into the same problem. Do you need to be a >> gorilla to actuate the choke? Anything to suggest or a modification to >> make? How do you 912 drivers handle starting with the right hand all >> taken up straining at the choke? >> >> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Robert Beck >> >> Go Bears! >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:08 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Kitfox-List: Rad shutters Those who have installed rad shutters on their 582's cooling system: Did you purchase and if so, where? Did you fabricate and if so do you have plans or pics you can send? Help is appreciated, as always. Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:35 AM PST US From: Nick Scholtes Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem Robert, I've had this exact problem many times before (although not specifically on a 912, as I'm a KitFox newbie!), but on other cable-actuated systems. The problem of where the cable is very hard to actuate, but when you take it apart everything seems very smooth and easy-to-operate. Often, and to my surprise, lubing the cable fixes the problem, even though the cable operates "smoothly" when it's disconnected. Best thing I can figure is that when the cable isn't connected, it sees no friction from rubbing on the sides of the sheath, but when it's under tension it gets pulled hard against the side of the sheath, and the friction starts. The amount of friction that can be seen under this scenario, as you point out, can be really huge. There are several ways to apply lubricant, a pressure lube system is a good choice. There are also several lubes to choose. I've tried many of them, from WD-40 to specially supplied "Cable Lubricant with Graphite" to "Dri-Slide" to a lube that comes out very thin and liquidy and then that solidifies into a grease. Many, especially the ones labeled specially for cable application, seem to work poorly, in my experience. Also, in my experience (your mileage may vary) is that a thin penetrating lube like WD-40 will work really well, for a few days, and then it seems to "go away". The best success I've found is to use this specialized stuff that I get from McMaster that sprays out of the can really thin and watery, and then later sets up into a grease. But, the grease is actually kinda' sticky, so then at that point follow it up with a shot of WD-40 down the pressure luber, and the cable will perform great for years. If you want the specifics of where to get the special grease stuff, let me know. Best, Nick ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:38 AM PST US From: James Shumaker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem You might check the brass cable holder piston in the handle. I found that one of the slots was not cut deep enough and was causing a binding. This c hanged the pull required from impossible to very firm.=0A=0AJim Shumaker=0A =0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: W & R Beck =0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 6:03: 42 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem=0A=0A=0A--> K itfox-List message posted by: "W & R Beck" =0A=0A =0AThanks, Lowell, the keyring idea appeals to my friend. I take it from yo ur =0Apost that this is a common problem, just 'the way things are' with th e 912 =0Achoke. That gives a sense of relief.=0A=0AThe Nylaflow tubing in t he bent tubes is another good idea, takes away a bit =0Aof the friction, ri ght? Like the nylon tubing in the V brake bent tubes of =0Amy mountain bike . One question: why did the tubing need to be slit? To =0Areduce its diamet er so it would fit?=0A=0ARobert Beck=0A=0AGo Bears means 'go polar bears in your fight for survival in the frigid =0Anorth'.=0A=0ADo not archive=0A=0A =0A> Hey, what's this go Bears stuff - just kidding.=0A>=0A> The choke is a tough one. I'll tell you what I did. First, I drilled a =0A> hole throug ht the base of the knob and threadded a key ring through that. =0A> A finge r through the ring gives a much better purchase. Another thing I =0A> did was to take a piece of Nylaflow tubing - some really fine stuff and =0A> sl it it with a Dremel type cut off wheel and threaded it into the bent =0A> t ubes with the unslit - good side toward the bend. All in all the ring =0A> was the hand saver.=0A>=0A> Lowell=0A>=0A> ----- Original Message ----- =0A> From: "W & R Beck" =0A> To: "Kitfox List" =0A> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 5:23 PM=0A> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem=0A>=0A>=0A> Folks:=0A> =0A> A quick question: I have a friend with a completed Classic IV who is =0A> getting close to first engine start. Recently we have been going over his =0A> Rotax 912 installation with a fine tooth comb. Today we tackled hi s =0A> cockpit mounted 'choke' (enrichener) control, which had I noticed is =0A> extremely difficult to pull, and hold, out (choke ON). It is set up to =0A> the right of the throttle and has quite a small knob. Skystar suppl ied. At =0A> first I suspected his cable routing or binding in the cables b ut they sure =0A> looked alright, with relatively gentle bends to each carb . Next we =0A> disconnected the choke lever return springs at each carb. MU CH easier but =0A> still not baby-smooth. Then we disconnected the cables f rom the choke =0A> levers on the carbs. The levers are free and not binding in any way.=0A>=0A> We buttoned it all back up, adjusted the throws so eac h lever is being =0A> pulled equally through its entire stroke, attached th e springs and, man, =0A> that choke control seems to take 50+lbs or more of force to actuate. Those =0A> 2 little return springs add up to powerful re sistance. In fact, my friend =0A> cannot pull it out and needs to grab it w ith a wrench. I am pretty beefy =0A> and I can pull it out but it seems lik e way too much effort to do so and =0A> too much effort to hold it out. Par t of the problem is the very small knob =0A> on the control supplied by Sky star. If it were the size of a ping-pong =0A> ball it would be much easier. =0A>=0A> Since his basic installation seems sound, done and modified per Sk ystar, =0A> and no individual items in the system seem to be binding, it go t me =0A> wondering if others have run into the same problem. Do you need t o be a =0A> gorilla to actuate the choke? Anything to suggest or a modifica tion to =0A> make? How do you 912 drivers handle starting with the right ha nd all taken =0A> up straining at the choke?=0A>=0A> Any ideas would be gre atly appreciated.=0A>=0A> Robert Beck=0A>=0A> Go Bears!=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A = ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:22 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: epoxys You should also put a small amount of microballoons in the adhesive when you are gluing two dissimilar metals together to prevent the actual contact of the two metals and thus prevent galvanic corrosion. Thanks for the MSDS Lowell. It doesn't sound like they are very bad. Randy ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:05 AM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CG, sensation, and axes motion I regret that Bob put "d n arkive" on his post. I too feel his post is a "keeper". I erased the Obliviating phrase below in his post to keep it in the archives. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradley M Webb Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 8:08 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CG, sensation, and axes motion Excellent points, especially as I just installed a heavier motor. I had to move the battery to the tail to balance it, so it is particularly relevant to what I've done. I can feel it, but I seem to respond to the visual cues, rather than the feeling of a slip/skid. Probably the way I was trained way back somewhere. It's interesting to fly the 707 during refueling at work, and sit in the back by the tail. The sensations are weird. As he pulls the nose up, the tail goes down, then up. Almost twice the movement as the middle. The front is "normal" feeling, but the back is backwards. Takes a bit to get used to it. Most call it the pit seat, and hate to sit there. I'm a roller coaster lover, so I think it's fun, especially in turbulence. Had a mission earlier this much in moderate turbulence over Nashville. I was in the pit seat, and after 2 hours, there were only three of us left who were not green and on oxygen. It wears you out badly, though. Haven't been that tired in a while. Bradley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel flow, summary so far. In Cessnas, Kitfoxes, and the like, your head, the CG, and the CL are all within a few inches. Basically, the airplane maneuvers about this small sphere that your head is in and yaw is not as pronounced. In the Glasair, Lancair, and some of the other pocket rockets, the pilot's inner ear is actually pretty far aft of this; naturally the pilot can better feel yaw. As an interesting aside, yaw dampers in airliners typically only have max rudder authority of a few degrees, but turn them off and people in the ends of the cabin can get sick or have trouble standing. The Kitfox was designed to be a light airplane and here comes the tie-in to altering an airplane's design. We all like to have "stuff" that adds weight. If we put that weight in the center of the airplane, it diminishes our useful load. However, as we add say a heavier engine in the front and ballast in the tail, bigger tailwheel, aft batteries, etc, we don't just diminish the useful load, we diminish the inertial stability of the design that the flight controls are sized to manipulate. Handling a cross-wind gust at low speed can come closer to the limits of rudder control, ground-loops become easier, and spin recovery takes more effort. Keeping your airplane light will help keep the inertia, and controllability, as it was designed to be. Bob Aero Eng, A&P -------- Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92786#92786 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:56 AM PST US From: Alan Daniels Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Vixen Information I would check your airspeed. Sounds like a static port problem giving you slow speeds. RRTRACK@aol.com wrote: > Hi BOB > Thanks for the reply. All the weight and balance scenarios is near > the rear of the CG limits. I will keep close watch of the CG when > loading the baggage compartment. My Vixen is disappointing on cruise > speeds. It cruises at 80 Knots at 5000 RPM indicated. I think about 90 > knots at 5500 RPM. The struts are faired and it has the fiberglass > main landing gear and all the wheel pants on. John McBean suggested > the tack may be off. I get about 5200 RPM static and it had 430# of > static thrust. > What it does do well is land slow. It stalls at 35 MPH with full > flaps and lands just under 40 MPH. Also the climb rate is around 1100 > FPM with a 170# pilot and 10 gal of fuel. I have the 68" GSC three > blade prop. How does this compare to your Vixen performance? > Mark > Wisconsin > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:11 AM PST US From: "Les Chambers" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Skiplane trip...coming home.. Hi Lynn, I really enjoyed your write-up and appreciate your sharing those experiences on the List. Many little things you mentioned will help others as they venture out in the future. Your home-stretch reminded me of a January trip I once made from (near Kansas City) to Alma, MI. to see an old Army buddy. MO winters are mild compared to yours and I had never heard about Lake-Effect snow, either! I learned a lot trying to get around the south end of Lake Mich. Seems like I had to go east to Ohio before I could even begin to scud-run thru the snow back up north to Alma. Anyway, thanks again for your interesting story. Les Chambers Classic IV (almost done?) Butler, MO. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn Matteson To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh Skiplane trip...coming home...OFF TOPIC Part II of my recent trip to Oshkosh for the Annual Skiplane Fly-in: I got up Sunday morning to the view of a little more snow on the ground at Oshkosh, and enough mist or blowing snow to keep the tower obscured for a couple hours. I opened the hangar, fueled up, got a new Airport Directory and a Green Bay sectional, clearance to taxi, and took off on 31 to the north. The directory says that 31 is full of cracks and vegetation, but the Kitfox must have picked a good section (snow covered) and the wind helped get it up quick. I flew northward, missing all the towered airports, and set my sights for the edge of Lake Michigan all the way around to the Bridge. About the time I had got as far as Menominee (MNM), Michigan and was flying at 5,500' altitude, I had finally seen the "elusive" zero F. reading on my OAT (outside air temperature) gauge. I say elusive, because in previous attempts to climb up high enough to witness 0=B0 or lower, I'd always run into a temperature inversion, and the higher I climbed, the warmer it got. This was several days, to weeks, before this trip to Oshkosh. I wasn't going to be disappointed on this flight. The clouds were becoming thicker, and I was climbing to get over them and have clear skies in which to fly. I still had the required (for my Sport Pilot license) view of the earth below me, but down there was snow and who knows what, so I stayed up high, and enjoyed the sun. As I flew further north, the OAT finally hit the minus sign, and another goal was mine. I don't know why this was a particular goal of mine, I just wanted to see it. Like when you are home and the weather says it's going to zero, I like to watch my digital temp gauge and see it happen...exciting life I lead, eh? Anyway, I got the below-zero reading, even got a shot with my camera at -4. I eventually hit -6, but by then it was more a pain in the ass and cold in the feet, than anything I wanted to see more of. I was getting chilly all over by then, and started to think of getting down and getting warm in a nice airport somewhere. The next stopping place was Delta Co (ESC) at Escanaba, Michigan. I made a radio call and flew the pattern and landed there. I went into the pilot's lounge and warmed up a bit and some guy came in and was checking out the weather for me, and we got to talking about Kitfox's and he said there was one on the grounds. He drove me to where it was, we met the owner, and shot the breeze, then it was time to head out. Driving back to my plane, we saw a turboprop plane being towed out of a hangar, and passengers lining up to board. I got back in my plane and departed. During the climbout, I noticed low clouds and what looked like snow in the direction that I wanted to go, which was right over a bay with freighters seemingly frozen in port...I took a picture, and diverted north, aiming for large openings in the clouds. To do this, I had to head slightly west, and climb, and finally I was over the clouds, and I could head back to my east heading. I knew that I was now in line with the runway that I had just left, and possibly in the path of that passenger jet that was boarding at Escanaba. I made a report of my position, just in case he was coming. I kept glancing over my shoulder, and thinking of the opening sequence of the 1980 movie "Airplane!". That opening shot shows a view above the clouds, plays the music from the movie "Jaws", and you see a fin zig-zagging just above the clouds, when finally the fin and attached airplane emerges from the clouds. This is what I was thinking was going to happen any second now..that this jet was going to emerge with me in its jaws, and I wasn't going to make much of a meal for him...enough to annoy his day and ruin mine. That moment passed, and I was flying over pretty sparsely populated area now, with nothing but trees under me. As I later told my flight instructor, I wasn't too worried, because I couldn't see all the trees because of the clouds. I could see enough to keep within the letter of the laws of the FAA, but not enough to make me worry about the stupidity of taking this direction home, with not much of a chance for a great landing area should I need that...hindsight is a great educator. I got some great shots of the beautiful patterns of frozen lake, and drifting snow, and ice floes. I passed the last airport for the next 40-50 miles and set my sights on the Mackinac/ Mackinaw Bridge. When the bridge came into view I took several pictures, got up some courage, and cut across the Lake and headed for the Lower Peninsula. At the point that I crossed the Lake, I had to cover about 20 miles of open water. This was also a less-than- brilliant move on my part, because I misjudged how far it really was. I could see the bridge, and knew that it was about 5 miles long, and just misjudged how far I would have to glide if engine problems occurred at that point...I think "get-there-itis" was clouding my thinking at that point. But I made it, and was glad to finally be heading straight south toward home. It was 3:08 PM when I was finally over the Lower, and I set my sights on one more hour of flying and then about one hour of find a suitable stayover spot for the night. I had of course been watching my fuel supply and all looked well at that point, with only an hour left to fly, and about two hours worth of fuel in which to do it. I set my sights on Clare Co. (80D) airport, mainly because it showed in the Airport Facility Directory that lodging was "adjacent" to the field. I was to find out that this was wrong. As I made my descent from about 5000' I witnessed the first of two low fuel warnings that I encountered during this trip. I leveled off during the descent with the runway in sight, and the light did not go off, so I continued my descent, knowing that I had about 15 minutes of fuel remaining in my header tank. When I reached pattern altitude, and leveled off, the light went out and I landed on the snow-covered runway. I taxied to a small restaurant and got some coffee, and inquired about the possibility of lodging, got the bad news, and decided to head for Mt Pleasant, 30 miles down the road. My thoughts were that the fuel would equalize in both tanks by the time I departed, and that if I didn't dawdle, I would have enough light to depart and get into Mt Pleasant (MOP) before the "civil evening twilight" rule made me stop for the night. When I checked the plane, I could see no fuel in the sight gauges at all. In retrospect, I think the plane was at a slight angle up or down, and that this was causing me to not see any on the sight gauges. I asked at the restaurant about getting some auto gas (the Jabiru engine can run on it, but I prefer avgas) and one kindly (but slow-moving) gentleman offered to drive me to get his can and some fuel. Let me tell you, when this pilot gets into "we better get moving along" mode (some would say that's putting it mildly), it seems like everything goes into slow-motion. Well, that's where we were that late, sun going down, times-a-wasting Sunday afternoon/early evening. This guy seemed to poke along without a care, getting the can from his shed, putting it in the car, brooming the snow off his boots, and the sun was going down. We got going again, down a long road, slowly coming up on a hill with a stop sign, him telling me "ya gotta watch out for snowmobiles here", then over the hill down the road and finally at the gas station with the sun going down. Back at the field, he told me to just put the can in the back of his car when I was done, would accept no money for his troubles...just "help somebody else out sometime"...I woulda loved the guy if I wasn't trying to get to someplace to stay for the night...and the sun was going down. I borrowed a step-stool from the restaurant, and hoisted the can above the wing. That's when I discovered how well the guy maintained his gas can. There apparently was no gasket on the filler spout, as the gas was going into the tank, and all over the wing at about a 3:2 ratio...maybe 3 parts into the tank and 2 parts all over and under the wing, and all over the flaperon, and onto the fuselage...and the sun was going down. Well, I got the fuel carefully wiped up with some snow, and then a rag slowly dragged over the surface so as to not cause a spark, and proceeded to get on my way. I tucked the rag under one of the braces of my skis, not wanting to bring it into the plane, and knowing that it wouldn't stay there long enough to cause any problems for me, at least. I left Clare Co. airport without incident, and headed for Mt Pleasant and got there just as the sun blinked out. I had made my first solo cross-country flight to this airport, and was glad to see Bob, an airport worker who remembered me and who had taken shots of my plane on that first visit. He recalled the Dale Earnhardt theme of my plane's paint job. He called the Holiday Inn to get a shuttle ride for me and we set out to tie the plane down. He couldn't find the tie- down locations in the snow, so he motioned me...I was taxiing behind him in the plane...to follow him to a 120 x 120 hangar for the second night in a row of hangar living for the plane. This time the cost was much more reasonable...$15 for the night as opposed to $50 the night before at Oshkosh. The next morning I checked the tanks and both showed over 5 gallons...more than enough for the 1-hour, 15 minute flight home. As I descended to my home strip from about 4000', the low-fuel light came on again, and went out as soon as I leveled off at pattern altitude. The next time I go to the hangar I'll fill the tanks and see just how low I was. From what I could tell from the limited fill-ups of fuel, either putting on the skis, taking off the wheel pants, flying into the wind for the most part, or just plain flying faster, the fuel economy has fallen from several readings of about 3.4 gph, to about 4.5 gph. Granted, this trip is a small cross section of information from which to get any real data, but it just might point out what drag can do to fuel economy. And of course, the last leg (south) I was into about a 45 degree head wind, so most of the trip was Bob Seger in nature....against the wind. Lynn ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:15 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: epoxys On Feb 4, 2007, at 4:58 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > Sometimes I get the idea poeple wish we could all stay in bed in > filtered air eating organic food with little taste and somehow find > life enjoyable and fulfilling. Good Lord, don't stay in bed, Lowell; most accidents happen at home, didn't you know that? A much safer place to be is ... in a Kitfox! :-) Cheers, Michel PS: Went flying both yesterday and today. Lovely winter flying! Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:33 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem Robert, I found the force required to pull the enrichment valve on my 912S surprisingly high also. In my Model IV-1200, though, I had the throttle mounted on my center console and the enrichment valve handle (also on the console) was actually a lever of sorts that allowed me to pull it a lot easier. Your description of the force required doesn't surprise me. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:42 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem From: "kitfoxmike" You will be better off getting the new stile choke cable and hooking up both carbs. I had the old stile and it too was hard to pull, the new stile is stiff also, but it now starts better with both carbs choking. -------- kitfoxmike Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=92845#92845 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:01 PM PST US From: "W & R Beck" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 Choke Actuation Problem Thanks to ALL who replied to my question on the 912 choke. All good, sound advice and my friend and I will look into all of the suggestions: lubing, modifying the slot in the control, attaching a key ring, nylon tubing inserts, etc, etc. Boo-Hee, good advice! Robert Beck Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:14 PM PST US From: Wwillyard@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Choke Actuation Problem Robert, I made a larger diameter knob, still pulls very firm but fingers don't hurt anymore. Good Luck. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:08 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: epoxys The glass fabric is to an extent dangerous to good health. The epoxy resins are supposed to be quite toxic. Common horse sense says to wear a good respirator... Preferably one withy a remote air supply. So much for theory. I use a respirator with the canisters on the front. When at home I use a similar respirator but I also try to sand outdoors with my back to the breeze. BTW when god created respirators he made them totally uncomfortable.... I hate wearing one but I wouldn't be without it. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michel Verheughe > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:58 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: epoxys > > > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 4:58 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > Sometimes I get the idea poeple wish we could all stay in bed in > > filtered air eating organic food with little taste and somehow find > > life enjoyable and fulfilling. > > Good Lord, don't stay in bed, Lowell; most accidents happen at home, > didn't you know that? A much safer place to be is ... in a > Kitfox! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > PS: Went flying both yesterday and today. Lovely winter flying! > > Do not archive > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:32 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RPM indicators for Rotax engines. Hi Torgeir: Following the wiring diagram of my R582-UL the lighting coils are completely separate from the ignition coils. So loading the lighting system shouldn't and in fact, doesn't make any difference to my Kitfox tach. My analogue reading tach is quite linear in it's error. Approximately 200RPM/1000RPM or 20% always consistent and always low. My tiny tach is powered by a built in battery and triggered by pulses passing through the plug wires. The pulses are no doubt digitized, de bounced, frequency counted, divided by 2 (2 firings per revolution) and then the end result displayed. I believe the highest resolution is 10rpm. As with most things digital trends are quite difficult to follow ( how fast an RPM is increasing/decreasing) and steady RPM are easy to attain. For that reason I still have my old erroneous Kitfox analogue tach in the dash as well as the digital tach. BTW. My understanding of the original tach is that it also reads pulses not signal amplitude. Apparently there was a problem with them burning out with too much current passing through them so a nice healthy resistor was placed in series to protect the input of the meter. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Torgeir Mortensen > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:06 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: RPM indicators for Rotax engines. > > > > > Hi there, > > For a long time, I've been looking into this RPM problem > related to our > Rotax engines. > > You know, I've had it, on my "very" old (sorry lady), engine setup. > > Well, this RPM indication problem is NOT related to the > "simple" Rotax RPM > indicator! > > Hey, this very same principle is used in the most reliable > RPM setups we > know about out there! > > There is only two wires going into the RPM indicator, just a > signal and no > power(?). > > OK., since the signal is just an alternating voltage, we > simply "steal" a > little of this energy for the indicator, using a full wave > (or half wave) > rectifier for power, then we measure the RPM(frequency) of this > alternating voltage, you see, -simple. > > > The thing is that our "well known" charging system is the problem! > > Before any protest here, ( :) ); Try this: > > Make sure that you can see the problem, yes -your RPM > indicator is reading > to low (as always -and normal)! This might be confirmed with > the hand > hold optical device. > > Now, discharge your battery a little (well -make sure there's > enough juice > for a restart of the engine), start your engine, switch on a > little of the > load that you have, LDG lights etc. -if necessary. > > What kind of RPM reading do you see now? Right, normal - but > how can this > be? > > This is something we'll discuss, but first some confirmation, > from those > with the problem.. > > > Torgeir. > > > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:05 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Skiplane trip...coming home.. Lynn: I am double envious. First the trip seemed to be a total adventure and secondly I wish I could write as well. Keep up the good work! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Chambers Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:31 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Skiplane trip...coming home.. Hi Lynn, I really enjoyed your write-up and appreciate your sharing those experiences on the List. Many little things you mentioned will help others as they venture out in the future. Your home-stretch reminded me of a January trip I once made from (near Kansas City) to Alma, MI. to see an old Army buddy. MO winters are mild compared to yours and I had never heard about Lake-Effect snow, either! I learned a lot trying to get around the south end of Lake Mich. Seems like I had to go east to Ohio before I could even begin to scud-run thru the snow back up north to Alma. Anyway, thanks again for your interesting story. Les Chambers Classic IV (almost done?) Butler, MO. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lynn Matteson Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh Skiplane trip...coming home...OFF TOPIC Part II of my recent trip to Oshkosh for the Annual Skiplane Fly-in: I got up Sunday morning to the view of a little more snow on the ground at Oshkosh, and enough mist or blowing snow to keep the tower obscured for a couple hours. I opened the hangar, fueled up, got a new Airport Directory and a Green Bay sectional, clearance to taxi, and took off on 31 to the north. The directory says that 31 is full of cracks and vegetation, but the Kitfox must have picked a good section (snow covered) and the wind helped get it up quick. I flew northward, missing all the towered airports, and set my sights for the edge of Lake Michigan all the way around to the Bridge. About the time I had got as far as Menominee (MNM), Michigan and was flying at 5,500' altitude, I had finally seen the "elusive" zero F. reading on my OAT (outside air temperature) gauge. I say elusive, because in previous attempts to climb up high enough to witness 0=B0 or lower, I'd always run into a temperature inversion, and the higher I climbed, the warmer it got. This was several days, to weeks, before this trip to Oshkosh. I wasn't going to be disappointed on this flight. The clouds were becoming thicker, and I was climbing to get over them and have clear skies in which to fly. I still had the required (for my Sport Pilot license) view of the earth below me, but down there was snow and who knows what, so I stayed up high, and enjoyed the sun. As I flew further north, the OAT finally hit the minus sign, and another goal was mine. I don't know why this was a particular goal of mine, I just wanted to see it. Like when you are home and the weather says it's going to zero, I like to watch my digital temp gauge and see it happen...exciting life I lead, eh? Anyway, I got the below-zero reading, even got a shot with my camera at -4. I eventually hit -6, but by then it was more a pain in the ass and cold in the feet, than anything I wanted to see more of. I was getting chilly all over by then, and started to think of getting down and getting warm in a nice airport somewhere. The next stopping place was Delta Co (ESC) at Escanaba, Michigan. I made a radio call and flew the pattern and landed there. I went into the pilot's lounge and warmed up a bit and some guy came in and was checking out the weather for me, and we got to talking about Kitfox's and he said there was one on the grounds. He drove me to where it was, we met the owner, and shot the breeze, then it was time to head out. Driving back to my plane, we saw a turboprop plane being towed out of a hangar, and passengers lining up to board. I got back in my plane and departed. During the climbout, I noticed low clouds and what looked like snow in the direction that I wanted to go, which was right over a bay with freighters seemingly frozen in port...I took a picture, and diverted north, aiming for large openings in the clouds. To do this, I had to head slightly west, and climb, and finally I was over the clouds, and I could head back to my east heading. I knew that I was now in line with the runway that I had just left, and possibly in the path of that passenger jet that was boarding at Escanaba. I made a report of my position, just in case he was coming. I kept glancing over my shoulder, and thinking of the opening sequence of the 1980 movie "Airplane!". That opening shot shows a view above the clouds, plays the music from the movie "Jaws", and you see a fin zig-zagging just above the clouds, when finally the fin and attached airplane emerges from the clouds. This is what I was thinking was going to happen any second now..that this jet was going to emerge with me in its jaws, and I wasn't going to make much of a meal for him...enough to annoy his day and ruin mine. That moment passed, and I was flying over pretty sparsely populated area now, with nothing but trees under me. As I later told my flight instructor, I wasn't too worried, because I couldn't see all the trees because of the clouds. I could see enough to keep within the letter of the laws of the FAA, but not enough to make me worry about the stupidity of taking this direction home, with not much of a chance for a great landing area should I need that...hindsight is a great educator. I got some great shots of the beautiful patterns of frozen lake, and drifting snow, and ice floes. I passed the last airport for the next 40-50 miles and set my sights on the Mackinac/ Mackinaw Bridge. When the bridge came into view I took several pictures, got up some courage, and cut across the Lake and headed for the Lower Peninsula. At the point that I crossed the Lake, I had to cover about 20 miles of open water. This was also a less-than- brilliant move on my part, because I misjudged how far it really was. I could see the bridge, and knew that it was about 5 miles long, and just misjudged how far I would have to glide if engine problems occurred at that point...I think "get-there-itis" was clouding my thinking at that point. But I made it, and was glad to finally be heading straight south toward home. It was 3:08 PM when I was finally over the Lower, and I set my sights on one more hour of flying and then about one hour of find a suitable stayover spot for the night. I had of course been watching my fuel supply and all looked well at that point, with only an hour left to fly, and about two hours worth of fuel in which to do it. I set my sights on Clare Co. (80D) airport, mainly because it showed in the Airport Facility Directory that lodging was "adjacent" to the field. I was to find out that this was wrong. As I made my descent from about 5000' I witnessed the first of two low fuel warnings that I encountered during this trip. I leveled off during the descent with the runway in sight, and the light did not go off, so I continued my descent, knowing that I had about 15 minutes of fuel remaining in my header tank. When I reached pattern altitude, and leveled off, the light went out and I landed on the snow-covered runway. I taxied to a small restaurant and got some coffee, and inquired about the possibility of lodging, got the bad news, and decided to head for Mt Pleasant, 30 miles down the road. My thoughts were that the fuel would equalize in both tanks by the time I departed, and that if I didn't dawdle, I would have enough light to depart and get into Mt Pleasant (MOP) before the "civil evening twilight" rule made me stop for the night. When I checked the plane, I could see no fuel in the sight gauges at all. In retrospect, I think the plane was at a slight angle up or down, and that this was causing me to not see any on the sight gauges. I asked at the restaurant about getting some auto gas (the Jabiru engine can run on it, but I prefer avgas) and one kindly (but slow-moving) gentleman offered to drive me to get his can and some fuel. Let me tell you, when this pilot gets into "we better get moving along" mode (some would say that's putting it mildly), it seems like everything goes into slow-motion. Well, that's where we were that late, sun going down, times-a-wasting Sunday afternoon/early evening. This guy seemed to poke along without a care, getting the can from his shed, putting it in the car, brooming the snow off his boots, and the sun was going down. We got going again, down a long road, slowly coming up on a hill with a stop sign, him telling me "ya gotta watch out for snowmobiles here", then over the hill down the road and finally at the gas station with the sun going down. Back at the field, he told me to just put the can in the back of his car when I was done, would accept no money for his troubles...just "help somebody else out sometime"...I woulda loved the guy if I wasn't trying to get to someplace to stay for the night...and the sun was going down. I borrowed a step-stool from the restaurant, and hoisted the can above the wing. That's when I discovered how well the guy maintained his gas can. There apparently was no gasket on the filler spout, as the gas was going into the tank, and all over the wing at about a 3:2 ratio...maybe 3 parts into the tank and 2 parts all over and under the wing, and all over the flaperon, and onto the fuselage...and the sun was going down. Well, I got the fuel carefully wiped up with some snow, and then a rag slowly dragged over the surface so as to not cause a spark, and proceeded to get on my way. I tucked the rag under one of the braces of my skis, not wanting to bring it into the plane, and knowing that it wouldn't stay there long enough to cause any problems for me, at least. I left Clare Co. airport without incident, and headed for Mt Pleasant and got there just as the sun blinked out. I had made my first solo cross-country flight to this airport, and was glad to see Bob, an airport worker who remembered me and who had taken shots of my plane on that first visit. He recalled the Dale Earnhardt theme of my plane's paint job. He called the Holiday Inn to get a shuttle ride for me and we set out to tie the plane down. He couldn't find the tie- down locations in the snow, so he motioned me...I was taxiing behind him in the plane...to follow him to a 120 x 120 hangar for the second night in a row of hangar living for the plane. This time the cost was much more reasonable...$15 for the night as opposed to $50 the night before at Oshkosh. The next morning I checked the tanks and both showed over 5 gallons...more than enough for the 1-hour, 15 minute flight home. As I descended to my home strip from about 4000', the low-fuel light came on again, and went out as soon as I leveled off at pattern altitude. The next time I go to the hangar I'll fill the tanks and see just how low I was. From what I could tell from the limited fill-ups of fuel, either putting on the skis, taking off the wheel pants, flying into the wind for the most part, or just plain flying faster, the fuel economy has fallen from several readings of about 3.4 gph, to about 4.5 gph. Granted, this trip is a small cross section of information from which to get any real data, but it just might point out what drag can do to fuel economy. And of course, the last leg (south) I was into about a 45 degree head wind, so most of the trip was Bob Seger in nature....against the wind. Lynn ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:02 PM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: epoxys The best respirator I have found lies in an Israeli M-15 gas mask. You can find good deals on them and the filters on E-Bay. They are full face, comfortable, and they have a generous field of vision. I can also attach a fresh air hose to the canister area as it came with an adaptor. Just a thought. My 2 cents on wearing protection...when in doubt...do it. Dan, KF-IV Building Mesa, AZ Noel Loveys wrote: The glass fabric is to an extent dangerous to good health. The epoxy resins are supposed to be quite toxic. Common horse sense says to wear a good respirator... Preferably one withy a remote air supply. So much for theory. I use a respirator with the canisters on the front. When at home I use a similar respirator but I also try to sand outdoors with my back to the breeze. BTW when god created respirators he made them totally uncomfortable.... I hate wearing one but I wouldn't be without it. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michel Verheughe > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 2:58 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: epoxys > > > > On Feb 4, 2007, at 4:58 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > Sometimes I get the idea poeple wish we could all stay in bed in > > filtered air eating organic food with little taste and somehow find > > life enjoyable and fulfilling. > > Good Lord, don't stay in bed, Lowell; most accidents happen at home, > didn't you know that? A much safer place to be is ... in a > Kitfox! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > PS: Went flying both yesterday and today. Lovely winter flying! > > Do not archive > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:23 PM PST US From: Mdkitfox@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RPM indicators for Rotax engines. In a message dated 2/3/2007 7:38:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, torgemor@online.no writes: There is only two wires going into the RPM indicator, just a signal and no power(?). I have the Rotax RPM indicator for my 912S and while the engine has only 2 wires going to the tach, the Tach has 3 terminals. They're numbered 1,2,3. Does anyone have any idea which terminals get wired to the engine and what's the extra terminal for anyway? Thanks, Rick Series V Speedster - N39RW ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:30 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: epoxys At 04:22 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote: >BTW when god created respirators he made them totally >uncomfortable.... I hate wearing one but I wouldn't be without it. When I bought one for painting I splurged and bought the best canister unit I could find with the best filters. It turned out to be surprisingly comfortable, so much so that I pretty much forget it's on if I really get into the task. It's nice, because I can then wear it from the time I pull the paint until after I'm done cleaning up. The filtration is so good there's absolutely no trace of odor, even when painting lacquer. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. 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