Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information) (Noel Loveys)
2. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: ASIs (Noel Loveys)
3. 07:30 AM - Re: Oshkosh trip fuel economy figures/picture (Noel Loveys)
4. 08:26 AM - Re: Oshkosh trip fuel economy figures/picture (Lynn Matteson)
5. 08:27 AM - Re: KingFox Tires (check this wild video) (dave)
6. 08:46 AM - Re: ASIs (kitfoxmike)
7. 08:58 AM - Re: ASI's and Altimeter Calibration (Noel Loveys)
8. 09:21 AM - Re: KingFox Tires (check this wild video) (Noel Loveys)
9. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information) (Lowell Fitt)
10. 10:03 AM - Lynn's skis. WAS: Oshkosh trip ... (Michel Verheughe)
11. 10:10 AM - GPS. WAS: ASIs (Michel Verheughe)
12. 10:17 AM - Re: Lynn's skis. WAS: Oshkosh trip ... (dave)
13. 10:35 AM - Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs (dave)
14. 10:37 AM - Kitfox 4-1200 for sale (Chuck & Deanna Schieffer)
15. 11:01 AM - Re: Kitfox 4-1200 for sale (kitfoxmike)
16. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox 4-1200 for sale ( Kitfox vs. RV ) (RRTRACK@aol.com)
17. 11:27 AM - Re: Kitfox 4-1200 for sale ( Kitfox vs. RV ) (kitfoxmike)
18. 11:35 AM - Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs (kurt schrader)
19. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: ASIs (kurt schrader)
20. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: ASIs (Barry West)
21. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: ASIs (wwillyard@aol.com)
22. 01:40 PM - Need airport access ideas...help (Tom Jones)
23. 02:21 PM - Re: Need airport access ideas...help (kitfoxmike)
24. 02:24 PM - Re: Need airport access ideas...help (Alan Daniels)
25. 02:50 PM - Re: Need airport access ideas...help (Ray B. McKinley)
26. 03:05 PM - Re: Need airport access ideas...help (kitfoxmike)
27. 04:25 PM - Re:airport access (GONER752@aol.com)
28. 04:42 PM - Warming Cold Engine (Leroy Kopecky)
29. 05:19 PM - Re: Lynn's skis. WAS: Oshkosh trip ... (Lynn Matteson)
30. 06:14 PM - More on GPS's (Lynn Matteson)
31. 06:37 PM - Re: Need airport access ideas...help (Tom Jones)
32. 06:52 PM - Re: Warming Cold Engine (Tom Jones)
33. 06:59 PM - Re: Warming Cold Engine (Lynn Matteson)
34. 07:04 PM - Re: Warming Cold Engine (floran higgins)
35. 08:33 PM - Re: Need airport access ideas...help (Guy Buchanan)
36. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: Need airport access ideas...help (Guy Buchanan)
37. 09:36 PM - Re: Need airport access ideas...help (kurt schrader)
38. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: Need airport access ideas...help (Alan Daniels)
39. 10:03 PM - Re: Re: ASIs (kurt schrader)
40. 10:10 PM - Re: Re: Need airport access ideas...help (James Shumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information) |
Torgeir:
Where I did my training was about two miles directly off the end of RWY 31
at Gander Intl.. All our training planes were more or less fully equipped.
They were the best planes in the world.... They had everything except
pilots!
On day one we were warned never to turn on a transponder. They were all
mode C without the encoders... They sent the frame sets for the altitude
without altitude info. Apparently on at least one occasion someone turned
on a transponder and gave a transport cat aircraft some interesting seconds
on take off. Definitely not a good idea.
BTW all the encoders and encoding altimeters I've seen are connected to
static lines.
I double your call for the cross vented static ports. And someone else
called for a drip loop on the static lines not altogether a bad idea
especially with the cross port system.
On my first flight last year I was doing a few circuits. On the water my
ASI was jumping around like a cat on a hot roof. Once I got airborne it
would settle out but read too high. When doing my post flight inspection I
found the static port, a plastic fitting, was hanging on, half in half out,
by the static line. I still have to get another port and install a proper
cross port static set up.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Torgeir Mortensen
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 9:24 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information)
>
>
> <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Barry and Dave,
>
>
> the first step is to check the airspeed indicator, such
> indicators often
> have a S shape in the graph. I.E. Show too low at low speed
> near perfect
> in the middle and much to high at max. speed.
>
> Then look at the aircraft side, a crossvented static port
> (this is a must
> for some "correct" static pressure). Also the pitot line must
> be without
> leak, etc.
>
> As an example, a frozen pitot head will give increasing speed as you
> climb! Or, vice versa.
>
> Cockpit static source may give some large altimeter error as well.
>
> It is not just enough to check the altimeter against the encoder
> altimeter, you'll also need to check that the altimeter is
> within the
> required specifications with a ramp tester, and the as a
> whole system.
> This is really important for those flying in/into controlled
> airspace,
> lot's of other aircraft with TCAS (traffic collision
> avoidness system).
> Our altimeter and transponder is important items under such
> conditions.
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:08:25 +0100, barry@pgtc.com
> <barry@pgtc.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks Dave, I think we both need an answer. Anybody have
> an explanation
> > to these different problems, Dave's reads too low and mine
> reads too
> > high?
> >
> > Barry
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: dave dave@cfisher.com
> > Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:31:45 -0500
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information)
> >
> >
> >
> > Barry, Mine reads at 90MPH TAS about 105 +
> > I have no external static port.
> > Now If i open the door the ASI drops to about 95 mph
> > Then if I stick my arm out the door fully exteneded and my
> ASI reads
> > about
> > 90 mph.
> > I guess you could say that doing this makes the cabin at th proper
> > pressure
> > as it would be with a proper external static port.
> >
> > At lower speeds 75 mph or les it seems fairly accurate to
> about 45 mph
> > then
> > the ASI reads low.
> >
> > Movies here http://www.cfisher.com
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 9:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information)
> >
> >
> >>
> >> My airspeed indicator is just the opposite, it is accurate
> up to about
> >> 90
> >> mph then starts reading too high, as much as 15 mph at 100
> (which has to
> >> be while decending.)
> >>
> >> I operated without a static port, just using the pressure
> behind the
> >> panel, until recently when I put a static port in anticipating
> >> installation of a transponder, but this seemed to have no
> effect. I
> >> will
> >> learn more when the system is calibrated and certified.
> But there must
> > be
> >> something wrong with the airspeed indicator. Does anyone have any
> >> suggestions?
> >>
> >> Barry West
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 7:03 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information)
> >>
> >>
> >>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >>>
> >>> Paul,
> >>>
> >>> Any chance that water got in the static line?
> >>>
> >>> Kurt S.
> >>>
> >>> --- Paul Seehafer <av8rps@tznet.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Mark,
> >>>>
> >>>> I've noticed that the airspeed indicator for my
> >>>> Model IV is off by sometimes 10 - 15 mph (e.g;
> >>>> reading 85-90 when I'm really going 100 mph). Weird
> >>>> thing is that it is not consistent at all......
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
> >>> with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
> >>> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on
> > MicrosoftR
> > Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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How much do you guys trust the altitude feature of your GPS? Just check and
see if your altimeter approximates the reading on your GPS before and after
take off and that should give you an idea as to how effective your static
ports are. If the altimeter reads high, say 10% then your ASI will probably
also read too fast. Probably close to 10% too high.
Also how long has it been since any one has calibrated their Altimeter ??
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Verheughe
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:48 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ASIs
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2007, at 5:46 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
> > This of course depends upon your Mod C being
> > calibrated
>
> Well ... yes, Kurt and Noel. My thinking actually comes from my first
> blunder. The previous owner of my plane flew only G airspace. Here,
> near Oslo, it's pretty much controlled so the first thing I
> did was to
> install a transponder mode C. On the first flight, I asked the local
> tower: "Radar check, please!" He gave me my position and altitude.
> "Cool!" I thought, "this is exactly what my altimeter shows!
> It must be
> pretty accurate."
> Then, later one, someone told me: "Not quite so! It only
> means that you
> were both using the same QNH."
> Indeed, because both altimeter and the transponder's altitude encoder
> are connected to the same static port.
>
> In this case, we wanted to know if the ASI needs calibration,
> or if it
> is a static port problem. I suggested then a process of elimination.
> Knowing that the indicated airspeed is wrong and assuming that the
> altitude encoder is correct, if the indicated altitude matches the
> reported altitude, then one would assume that the static port is not
> really sensing the static air pressure. Does that make sense?
>
> Kurt, of course, one could ask the controller for airspeed read out,
> but then, it would be ground speed and usually we can find that from
> e.g. a GPS. In any case, it won't tell if it is most likely an ASI
> problem, or a static port problem.
>
> Incidentally, I also have a static port problem, my indicated
> airspeed
> is too high by about 5 MPH. And yes, I have the port aft,
> left side of
> the fuselage, as recommended by Denney (Skystar, in your case! :-)
> When I have a bit of time, I'll try to have a double port,
> one on each
> side.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Oshkosh trip fuel economy figures/picture |
Nice looking job!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
lynnmatt@jps.net
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh trip fuel economy figures/picture
Michel-
How's this then, Michel? I'd rather see the skis than me too. You'll
notice
I "borrowed" your idea of curving the side members inward to allow for a
shorter axle extension...good idea!
Lynn
p.s. Michel, Dave, and John Perry all sent me photos/diagrams/drawings
from
which I gathered the best ideas to build my skis...the lawyers will be
getting in touch with me soon...: )
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh trip fuel economy figures/picture |
Thanks, Noel.
Lynn
do not archive
On Feb 9, 2007, at 10:27 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Nice looking job!
>
>
> Noel
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: KingFox Tires (check this wild video) |
Hey Lynn,
Good stuff !!
Enjoy the off piste` now :)
Dav
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KingFox Tires (check this wild video)
>
> Dave and others-
> I made my first "not-defined-as-an-airport" landing today...on the
> frozen lake across from my house. Slipped it in over the trees,
> parked it, went home for some hot soup, and later took off for the
> hangar...fun stuff.
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Feb 8, 2007, at 1:00 PM, dave wrote:
>
>> Gary,
>>
>> you can get those videos at you tube http://www.youtube.com/
>> profile?user=kitfoxflyer
>>
>> as well as http://www.cfisher.com
>>
>> I am on Skis now .......... The King fox tire wer fine up till
>> about 8 inches of snow and then alot of rolling resistance.
>> Now it all windpacked and hard and Tires would be good for alot of
>> places.
>>
>> And you still got floats on ?
>>
>>
>> Hopefully this will encourage others to get some videos up as well.
>>
>> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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ASI, hummm...
I use to worry about mine. Ya, I have the static port on the side, but I have
a transponder also. I remember when I had my transponder calibrated for use,
they wouldn't do it unless I changed the altitude indicator, seems the higher
graduate was broken. But otherwise it worked just fine, I jokenly said, that's
the nose bleed level, I don't go up that high, they didn't care, so I got a
used one and put it in.
Back to the ASI, I can care less what mine says, wide open I go 90kts GPS. At
least that is what my ground speed comes out to, at about 100ft off the ground
and taking a 4 point average. I still don't care about ASI when crusing. Ok,
when do I care about the ASI, when doing a base to final turn 20ft off the ground
and over the numbers, yup, I glance at it to make sure I'm at least 60mph,
it's amazing how nice our foxes slow down doing a 60degree turn over the numbers.
How about the altitude indication, again I don't care to much, the only time is
to make sure I'm at proper altitude, lets say 1000 over structure or when I'm
told to fly at a certain altitude for sequencing. Other than that I know what
I need to fly to approach to land without looking at that round dial. I sometimes
chuckle to my wife when doing a short approach and when turning base to
final just over the lights, or fence, whatever your discription is, I end up
being right on the vasi lights when I level out on the final.
On the altitude indication, have you ever got off the ground at less than 200ft
and hold full throttle and push forward on the stick and run along the ground
2 ft off and hit about 80 indicated and pull up and look at the altitude indicator,
it doestn't move, what??? yup, all of the sudden when your at about 200ft
it will finally move. All these guages are for a guide, think of them as
running on a rubber band and the response is going to be after you have already
done it. If you fly as much as I do, over 250hrs a year, you will begine to
realise this is very true, you end up not even relying on them, just using them
for a reference.
I also Bass fish and I have a nice Ranger boat. When I was doing turnaments I
would want my boat to go faster to impress the other person in the boat, so what
I did and a lot of other guys did with their boat was to enlarge the hole in
the outdrive for the speedo, wow instand speed increase, sure impressed the
fella that you had for a partner that day. I think when we pull the static port
off the back of the panel and use cabin static, we are doing the same thing.
Try it if you haven't, you pull the static off the guages and you have instant
speed increase.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93947#93947
Message 7
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| Subject: | ASI's and Altimeter Calibration |
Your concern is well founded. No doubt about it a lot of errors can be
caused by having the static ports in the wrong place. In our small planes
the speed isn't critical and few of us get up above 10.000' so some error
can be expected without too much of a problem.
Larger aircraft will have several parts of the fuselage tested for the right
spot to place a static port and some even have the static port built into
the pitot probe. If you have the opportunity to see an Aeronca Champ
sometime have a look at it's static probe. It's right below, or is that
above the pitot tube. The advantage is it's not in the prop wash and also
not affected by slipping.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Jim Corner
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:02 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: ASI's and Altimeter Calibration
>
>
>
>
> The current discussion brings up a concern I have never completely
> understood regarding calibration of the altimeter and transponder
> encoder.
>
> As I understand it the process uses a calibrated vacuum source to
> connected to the static line to:
>
> 1) ensure that the altimeter reads correctly over its range
> of operation
>
> 2) ensures that the output of the encoder agrees with the altimeter
> when corrected to standard atmosphere pressure
>
>
> My concern is that in actual dynamic operation ( i.e. flying ) the
> location of the static source can and does affect ASI and Altimeter
> readings.
>
> Is it that the static port location does not effect the
> altimeter and
> encoder readings sufficiently to be of concern even though ASI
> readings are affected?
>
> Perhaps the calibration process tests in some way that I am unaware,
> the location of the static port?
>
> Am I missing something it the calibration process?
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | KingFox Tires (check this wild video) |
Now, that's flying!!!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:48 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KingFox Tires (check this wild video)
>
>
>
> Dave and others-
> I made my first "not-defined-as-an-airport" landing today...on the
> frozen lake across from my house. Slipped it in over the trees,
> parked it, went home for some hot soup, and later took off for the
> hangar...fun stuff.
>
> Lynn
> do not archive
> On Feb 8, 2007, at 1:00 PM, dave wrote:
>
> > Gary,
> >
> > you can get those videos at you tube http://www.youtube.com/
> > profile?user=kitfoxflyer
> >
> > as well as http://www.cfisher.com
> >
> > I am on Skis now .......... The King fox tire wer fine up till
> > about 8 inches of snow and then alot of rolling resistance.
> > Now it all windpacked and hard and Tires would be good for alot of
> > places.
> >
> > And you still got floats on ?
> >
> >
> > Hopefully this will encourage others to get some videos up as well.
> >
> > Dave
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information) |
>
>
You can eliminate instrument variables as a reason by using the manometer
and calculator. If that checks out OK, the problem would be elsewhere in
the plumbing and or location of the static port.
Lowell
> Thanks Dave, I think we both need an answer. Anybody have an explanation
> to these different problems, Dave's reads too low and mine reads too high?
>
> Barry
>
----- Original Message -----
From: <barry@pgtc.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ASIs (was Vixen Information)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Lynn's skis. WAS: Oshkosh trip ... |
On Feb 9, 2007, at 6:33 AM, lynnmatt@jps.net wrote:
> How's this then, Michel?
Sweeeeeet, Lynn! They look pretty much like mine, except for the two
"cross-over" bars you have. Do you also find that the tiny wheels at
the end of the skis increase your longitudinal stability as you land?
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 11
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On Feb 9, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> How much do you guys trust the altitude feature of your GPS?
Unless it is differential GPS, about 300 feet, Noel. And it's not
likely to change. Something to do with the geoidal height table,
somewhat coarse in your "worldwide" instrument and the fact that the
angles made by the satellites over the horizon give poor triangulation
in the Y-axis (altitude).
Cheers,
Michel
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn's skis. WAS: Oshkosh trip ... |
Yes,
Very nice Skis
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:02 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Lynn's skis. WAS: Oshkosh trip ...
>
> On Feb 9, 2007, at 6:33 AM, lynnmatt@jps.net wrote:
>> How's this then, Michel?
>
> Sweeeeeet, Lynn! They look pretty much like mine, except for the two
> "cross-over" bars you have. Do you also find that the tiny wheels at
> the end of the skis increase your longitudinal stability as you land?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs |
I have a 196 garmin and find it to be fairly accurate ( +/- 50 feet)
most of the time.
I have had at time erratic readings of 200 to 800 feet fklying over
Georgian Bay here in Ontario.
Why ? No idea here , but it only happens afew times but once over land
again it seems to be ok. ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS. WAS: ASIs
>
> On Feb 9, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>> How much do you guys trust the altitude feature of your GPS?
>
> Unless it is differential GPS, about 300 feet, Noel. And it's not likely
> to change. Something to do with the geoidal height table, somewhat coarse
> in your "worldwide" instrument and the fact that the angles made by the
> satellites over the horizon give poor triangulation in the Y-axis
> (altitude).
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Kitfox 4-1200 for sale |
I am getting close to finishing up an RV so will be selling my Kitfox
model 4 with a Rotax 912. About 690 hours E & A, Dynon D10, grove gear,
Nav/Com and located in Southern CA. I will be asking $23K. If anyone
knows an interested party, please contact Chuck at 805-531-9855 or
csschieffer@yahoo.com.
Thanks,
Chuck
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 4-1200 for sale |
Chuck,
I'm building an RV as well, but I don't think I can part with my fox. I guess
I'll have to wait till the RV is done and decide, but I think I will be keeping
both. After all the RV will be a 7A, for cross country and I do like the tail
wheel kitfox, I doubt I will want to give up the fun this little airplane gives
me.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=93986#93986
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 4-1200 for sale ( Kitfox vs. RV ) |
Good advise, keep both planes if possible! I have a great RV-6A and a
Kitfox. The Kitfox will get a lot more use as it is perfect for low scenic flights
and uses about $10 per hour of fuel (912 UL) compared to $35 per hour on the
RV (0-360). But the RV will get you there fast, like a time machine!
Mark
Wisconsin
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 4-1200 for sale ( Kitfox vs. RV ) |
I don't think it should be kitfox vs. RV, because I think if you have both then
you have the best of both worlds. Like you said, for flying scenic, the fox
outshines, but for flying long distances, the RV shines. I wouldn't think of
putting my RV into some of the stripes in the back country, but I wouldn't think
twice of putting the fox back there.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: GPS. WAS: ASIs |
Probably the infamous "Georgian Bay Triangle". :-)
But at a guess, I'd say you are seeing some reflecting
signals off the water confusing your GPS a bit. I
don't know for sure, but the GPS freq doesn't
penetrate water well and may bounce off. All the
signals are weak to begin with, so it could be one
reason.
VOR and other signals can bend as they cross shore
lines too and can cause some position error. When I
flew across the bigger ponds, we had to watch for
this. Only was a problem when far enough out to
receive just one navaid.
Kurt S. S-5
--- dave <dave@cfisher.com> wrote:
> I have a 196 garmin and find it to be fairly
> accurate ( +/- 50 feet) most of the time.
>
> I have had at time erratic readings of 200 to 800
> feet fklying over Georgian Bay here in Ontario.
> Why ? No idea here , but it only happens a few
> times but once over land again it seems to be ok. ?
>
> Dave
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
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--- kitfoxmike <customtrans@qwest.net> wrote:
...........
> How about the altitude indication, again I don't
> care to much, the only time is to make sure I'm at
> proper altitude, lets say 1000 over structure or
> when I'm told to fly at a certain altitude for
> sequencing......
Well, there goes my theory that if I cruise at a hard
altitude, +/- 250 feet, I'll miss both the VFR and IFR
traffic. ;-)
Kurt S.
Ha ha
Do not archive
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
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Here is my airspeed caliration from the initial flight testing. It is
essentially the same after installing a static port. Not yet having a
transponder, I don't know about altitude. Like most of you, I never had any
concern about calibrated or indicated airspeed but it would be nice to know.
Maybe the problem will be resolved when the transponder is working.
indicated 0 20 40 60 80 100 110
calibrated 0 21 42 60 80 95 102
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: ASIs
>
> How much do you guys trust the altitude feature of your GPS? Just check
> and
> see if your altimeter approximates the reading on your GPS before and
> after
> take off and that should give you an idea as to how effective your static
> ports are. If the altimeter reads high, say 10% then your ASI will
> probably
> also read too fast. Probably close to 10% too high.
>
> Also how long has it been since any one has calibrated their Altimeter ??
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Michel Verheughe
>> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:48 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ASIs
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2007, at 5:46 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
>> > This of course depends upon your Mod C being
>> > calibrated
>>
>> Well ... yes, Kurt and Noel. My thinking actually comes from my first
>> blunder. The previous owner of my plane flew only G airspace. Here,
>> near Oslo, it's pretty much controlled so the first thing I
>> did was to
>> install a transponder mode C. On the first flight, I asked the local
>> tower: "Radar check, please!" He gave me my position and altitude.
>> "Cool!" I thought, "this is exactly what my altimeter shows!
>> It must be
>> pretty accurate."
>> Then, later one, someone told me: "Not quite so! It only
>> means that you
>> were both using the same QNH."
>> Indeed, because both altimeter and the transponder's altitude encoder
>> are connected to the same static port.
>>
>> In this case, we wanted to know if the ASI needs calibration,
>> or if it
>> is a static port problem. I suggested then a process of elimination.
>> Knowing that the indicated airspeed is wrong and assuming that the
>> altitude encoder is correct, if the indicated altitude matches the
>> reported altitude, then one would assume that the static port is not
>> really sensing the static air pressure. Does that make sense?
>>
>> Kurt, of course, one could ask the controller for airspeed read out,
>> but then, it would be ground speed and usually we can find that from
>> e.g. a GPS. In any case, it won't tell if it is most likely an ASI
>> problem, or a static port problem.
>>
>> Incidentally, I also have a static port problem, my indicated
>> airspeed
>> is too high by about 5 MPH. And yes, I have the port aft,
>> left side of
>> the fuselage, as recommended by Denney (Skystar, in your case! :-)
>> When I have a bit of time, I'll try to have a double port,
>> one on each
>> side.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Michel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>How much do you guys trust the altitude feature of your GPS?
Not much. Not even close to field elevation and fluctuates while the GPS is stationary.
Bill W.
Do not archive
________________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Need airport access ideas...help |
One of the main reasons I chose to build a Kitfox was the ability to fold it up
and keep it at home. This made owning an airplane affordable for me.
I will be ready to start flying soon and have found that I am locked out of our
local airport. The county's policy is that Keys to the airport gates are issued
only to hanger and tie down tennants. The airport manager does not see this
as an issue. She said I can ask someone at the FBO to open a gate each time
I want in or out. This is not acceptable to me. Not only is it a huge inconvienence
for both me and the FBO, I am restricted to having airport access during
the FBO's business hours only...9 to 5 Mon through Sat...closed Sun.
I plan to attend the Airport Advisory Committee's meeting on Feb. 13 to ask that
they propose a change in this policy to the County commisioners. I would like
to hear some good ideas on arguments for me to present. I plan to be nice
and polite.
Tom Jones, Classic 4, Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94024#94024
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
I know you didn't want to pay extra for parking, but what is the charge for parking
an aircraft outside? You might throw it by them that you want to tie it up
outside and just fold it up and take it home for maintainance. Which would
end up being every night, but you don't need to tell them that. I think my airport
is 50 a month, I don't think that is too bad.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94034#94034
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
I have an idea. Move to Ontario Oregon ONO. We actually like airplanes
here. We have no sales tax, no property tax on planes, and we only
charge less than 12 cents a square foot per year for space to build a
hangar, or $150 a year for a nice tie down space. We usually have hangar
space for $100 to $125 a month, but they are all full now. We have no
gates or fences, we have picnic tables, grass, and trees. We have a very
nice community with a very low cost of housing and the best flying
weather in the country, and we are within an hour flying of some of the
best flying in the world. IMHO
Do not archive
>
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| Subject: | Need airport access ideas...help |
Hi I am moving to the Bend OR area for that very reason the airport which I
am close to has a very limited access and you only get the code if you pay a
monthly tie down fee. I keep my Kitfox at home and do not feel obligated to
pay there fee. There for I am obligated to find a lonely country road and
fly from it. This is far from acceptable as I pay taxes that support the
locale airport and should have access to it weather or not I keep the plane
there or not.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Daniels
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Need airport access ideas...help
I have an idea. Move to Ontario Oregon ONO. We actually like airplanes
here. We have no sales tax, no property tax on planes, and we only
charge less than 12 cents a square foot per year for space to build a
hangar, or $150 a year for a nice tie down space. We usually have hangar
space for $100 to $125 a month, but they are all full now. We have no
gates or fences, we have picnic tables, grass, and trees. We have a very
nice community with a very low cost of housing and the best flying
weather in the country, and we are within an hour flying of some of the
best flying in the world. IMHO
Do not archive
>
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
ONO, sounds great, but unfortunatly, I need my business to keep my hobby going.
But, flying down and visiting would be high on my list of places to go this summer.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94048#94048
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| Subject: | re:airport access |
Tom,
One possible offer could be a form of a "user fee" for the key. Since you
won't be tying down, perhaps this
"fee" would be something less than that of an outside tiedown spot. I can
sort of understand them wanting to limit access to the field. A lot of smaller
airports are actually being mandated to fence and gate the perimeter for
"homeland security" issues. Especially if the airport received any federal
monies, for improvements and such. I suspect they are probably required to keep
a
record of airport access. I could also be talking out of my south end, just
guessing here. Anyway, another option that comes to mind is finding a friendly
farmer neighbor with a suitable field. He might even be interested in going
for a ride, once in awhile.
Greg Gerace
375KL
Mod 2
582
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| Subject: | Warming Cold Engine |
I didn't see this topic listed anywhere so I'm going to ask for
assistance. My KFIV has been sitting in an unheated hanger for about 2
months. I'm doing some maintenance on it and the cold weather is
slowing the process. Anyway, I'd like to try starting it in about 2
weeks or so, but am concerned that the engine won't start.
I was thinking of some safe and effective ways to warm the engine so it
has a reasonable chance of starting. Here are some of the thoughts I've
had and I'd like reactions and suggestions:
1. Oil dipstick heater
2. Space heater close to engine
3. Possibly installing an engine block heater
Thanks for any advice.
LeRoy Kopecky
Frigid Wisconsin
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn's skis. WAS: Oshkosh trip ... |
I think that they do, Michel. They probably act like keels on a boat,
eh? The first landing I made with them was about a week after we had
a pretty intense ice storm here, and the grass runway was pretty
crunchy ice, covered with snow. I treated the landing like a soft
field landing, keeping the tail low, so of course the tails of the
skis touched before the main wheels...the sound was very unusual. It
reminded me of the old curb feelers that were sold back in the
fifties. For those that don't recall or never heard of them, they
were a device that was clamped to the bottom of the fender of your
car, and it would touch/rub the curb when you were parking the car.
It was essentially a bicycle spoke with a 1/4" blob of metal on the
rubbing end, and a small clamp on the other end. The rubbing against
the curb would resonate through the body of the car, letting you know
you were close enough to the curb...it was about 12" long, but I
digress...
Lynn
do not archive
On Feb 9, 2007, at 1:02 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> On Feb 9, 2007, at 6:33 AM, lynnmatt@jps.net wrote:
>> How's this then, Michel?
>
> Sweeeeeet, Lynn! They look pretty much like mine, except for the
> two "cross-over" bars you have. Do you also find that the tiny
> wheels at the end of the skis increase your longitudinal stability
> as you land?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 30
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During my recent return flight from Oshkosh, I stopped at Delta Co
(ESC) at Escanaba, Michigan, but when later looking at the flight log
(Garmin 296) of my trip, the stop at ESC did not show up. The track
feature showed that I was there, and zooming in showed my ground
maneuvers, but the log showed that I flew from Oshkosh to Clare Co
(80D), Michigan...409 miles and 5.4 hours...NOT! In looking at the
Green Bay Sectional later, I noticed that there was a note stating:
"Magnetic disturbance of as much as 14 exists at ground level at
Escanaba"
I asked the Garmin Tech Support team if this could have caused my
"non-stop", and their reply was:
"We have seen where external sources can have an effect on the
units. Having
a magnetic field that is that powerful could possibly cause problems
with
the unit. This could cause the unit to lose satellites reception and
many
other potential problems."
So the question is this: Have any of you had your GPS's flight log
fail to show a stop, or have you ever shown a stop that you didn't
really make? I have flown near an airport, turned around and flown
back and had the unit show a stop there, when in fact I did not stop,
and the tracks show this as a non-stopping incident.
Lynn
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
Okay, thanks, tese are some ideas i will think about.
kitfox Mike, renting an outside tie down may work, I'll go down tomorrow and ask
how much for a spot.
Alan, I miss the small town airports a lot, Ellensburg may be considered small
by some but the Washington westside money is moving in and changing it to Issaqua
East. (no offence Don P.). I lived in lexington OR for 15 years. 1/5th
owner in a cherokee 180. 600 feet from door step to runway. Hanger $25/month,
all fixed costs split 5 ways and only two of us ever used the airplane. Silent
partners are nice.
Ray, I lived in La Pine for 10 years. Do you have contacts in Bend. I can give
you the local EAA news letter and Kitfox owner info if you want.
The hay field accross the road from where I live now will probably see some kitfox
use after my airplane gets into phase 2. I'm a new tail wheel pilot and don't
think my insurance would think kindly of that option yet.
Picture attached.
Lets hear some more arguments for a key to the airport for now. Do not archive.
Tom Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94078#94078
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4487_353.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Warming Cold Engine |
Leroy, I think you have a VW, right? I would just charge the battery up good and
put in some fresh room temperature oil. A blanket over the cowl and a light
bulb under will warm the engine if your're talking minus F temp and worried
about squeeking the engine.
Tom Jones
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Warming Cold Engine |
I didn't start my engine for 26 days (I had the flu, and was building
skis at home) in a likewise non-heated hangar. I use a Pelonis
ceramic disc heater, under the cowl, pointed up between my exhaust
pipes (Jabiru 2200), and pointed at the oil cooler. After about 3
hours of heating in below zero to 10 F above weather, it starts
without a problem. At the time of starting, the oil temp will be
about 130-140, and the cylinder head temps will be about the same. I
use the heater almost every time I fly, just to bring things up to
temp quicker.
Lynn
On Feb 9, 2007, at 7:37 PM, Leroy Kopecky wrote:
> I didn't see this topic listed anywhere so I'm going to ask for
> assistance. My KFIV has been sitting in an unheated hanger for
> about 2 months. I'm doing some maintenance on it and the cold
> weather is slowing the process. Anyway, I'd like to try starting
> it in about 2 weeks or so, but am concerned that the engine won't
> start.
>
> I was thinking of some safe and effective ways to warm the engine
> so it has a reasonable chance of starting. Here are some of the
> thoughts I've had and I'd like reactions and suggestions:
>
> 1. Oil dipstick heater
>
> 2. Space heater close to engine
>
> 3. Possibly installing an engine block heater
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> LeRoy Kopecky
> Frigid Wisconsin
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ===========================================================
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| Subject: | Re: Warming Cold Engine |
I put a hair dryer in the front of the cowl and place a blanket over the
cowl.
The engine is warm enough to start after 30 minutes to an hour depending
how cold it is.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Leroy Kopecky
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:37 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Warming Cold Engine
I didn't see this topic listed anywhere so I'm going to ask for
assistance. My KFIV has been sitting in an unheated hanger for about 2
months. I'm doing some maintenance on it and the cold weather is
slowing the process. Anyway, I'd like to try starting it in about 2
weeks or so, but am concerned that the engine won't start.
I was thinking of some safe and effective ways to warm the engine so
it has a reasonable chance of starting. Here are some of the thoughts
I've had and I'd like reactions and suggestions:
1. Oil dipstick heater
2. Space heater close to engine
3. Possibly installing an engine block heater
Thanks for any advice.
LeRoy Kopecky
Frigid Wisconsin
Message 35
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| Subject: | Need airport access ideas...help |
At 02:50 PM 2/9/2007, you wrote:
>This is far from acceptable as I pay taxes that support the
>locale airport and should have access to it weather or not I keep the plane
>there or not.
I agree. I hate to say this, but I think you should contact the local
District Attorney. I believe if it's public property you should
legally have access without payment.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
At 06:37 PM 2/9/2007, you wrote:
>Lets hear some more arguments for a key to the airport for now. Do
>not archive.
As I told Ray, you might want to contact the local DA. I'm trying to
remember if you have a legal right to access to public property. (Law
school was a long time ago.) I know they've got security concerns,
but I don't think paying a tie-down fee quite qualifies as a background check.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
Hi Tom,
What do they do for people who fly in after FBO hours?
Is no one allowed to commute thru this airport and
stay over? Isn't this policy reducing local support
for business? What if a businessman from another city
wants to fly in or out after FBO hours?
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net> wrote:
> One of the main reasons I chose to build a Kitfox
> was the ability to fold it up and keep it at home.
> This made owning an airplane affordable for me.
>
> I will be ready to start flying soon and have found
> that I am locked out of our local airport.....
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
If the airport has taken FAA money it is required to provide public
access. Some funds require 20 years of public access and other types,
especially land acquisitions are in perpetuity. Security is an issue
particularly if the airport has scheduled airline flights, but usually
the GA area is separate but is still an issue. Most airports I am aware
of regulate keys or access cards, but many do not track who comes and
goes. That is usually done with video surveillance. I don't think you
will have a problem getting a key or card. They may charge you the
security portion of the tie down fee, but it should be minimal. So far I
have been able to pass Homeland Security checks without fences or gates
by using the AOPA airport watch program. I will fight restricting the
airport to the very end. We have people come and walk around the planes
while eating lunch or bring the kids out to watch the planes. I have
spent over 3 million in the last four years helping make this a nice
airport, and its all for the pilots and public and they sure can use it
here. Most light GA planes weigh less than a VW bug. What are they going
to do, knock down an outhouse. I thought that the story of Chicken
Little was a child's story about overreacting. I did not realize it was
to become official government policy. In police work we called it gang
or crowd mentality, and it is alive and well in government.
Do not archive
>
Message 39
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Hi Barry,
I assume your were still on the ground at 20 knots?
;-)
Seems that you are getting some compression at the
static port at low speed and suction at higher speeds.
Your static port position and fuselage pitch attitude
probably are doing that, ie, you need a different port
location?
Another possibility is prop wash effects. That can be
tested by doing airspeed checks in climb and glide.
No change in accuracy at a given speed = not prop
wash.
In all cases, a static port out on the wing strut well
below the wing and out of propwash instead of on the
fuselage would help. Harder to make this change
though. Wish I had done it this way....
You might occasionally see aircraft with some small
object like a little 1/8th inch high "V" or buldge
very near the static port used to modify the boundry
layer and gain accuracy. This takes a lot of testing
to make work. Something that can be done with a
little tape for testing and hardly noticable for a
perminate fix after you found a shape that worked, but
involves a lot of time.
Kurt S.
--- Barry West <barry@pgtc.com> wrote:
> Here is my airspeed caliration from the initial
> flight testing.....
>
> indicated 0 20 40 60 80 100 110
> calibrated 0 21 42 60 80 95 102
>
> Barry
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
Tony=0A =0ASounds like you have a very nice airport manager and will be abl
e to work something out. Going to the Airport Commission might surprise yo
u how slooow things can happen in government. If you convince the advisory
board then they must put the business on the agenda and publish the agenda
and then their recommendations can be sent to the City council who can the
n send it to their legal council who can then return it with amendments and
then if it doesn't have to be reconsidered because of the feelings of some
local pilots feeling of fairness then you might get the change in a few mo
nths...probably in time for next (2008) summers flying season. =0A=0AThey
may have to provide public access to the public airport...but they can requ
ire specific rules be followed and insurances paid for etc. It will be a
lot easier and more rewarding to work with the manager. You may get the ke
y without the tiedown if you pay the daily fee.=0A=0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A=0A-
---- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Alan Daniels <aldaniels@fmtcblue.com>=0A
=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Need airport access ideas...help=0A=0A=0A-
=0A=0AIf the airport has taken FAA money it is required to provide public
=0Aaccess. Some funds require 20 years of public access and other types,
=0Aespecially land acquisitions are in perpetuity. Security is an issue
=0Aparticularly if the airport has scheduled airline flights, but usually
=0Athe GA area is separate but is still an issue. Most airports I am aware
=0Aof regulate keys or access cards, but many do not track who comes and
=0Agoes. That is usually done with video surveillance. I don't think you
=0Awill have a problem getting a key or card. They may charge you the =0As
ecurity portion of the tie down fee, but it should be minimal. So far I =0A
have been able to pass Homeland Security checks without fences or gates =0A
by using the AOPA airport watch program. I will fight restricting the =0Aai
rport to the very end. We have people come and walk around the planes =0Awh
ile eating lunch or bring the kids out to watch the planes. I have =0Aspent
over 3 million in the last four years helping make this a nice =0Aairport,
and its all for the pilots and public and they sure can use it =0Ahere. Mo
st light GA planes weigh less than a VW bug. What are they going =0Ato do,
knock down an outhouse. I thought that the story of Chicken =0ALittle was a
child's story about overreacting. I did not realize it was =0Ato become of
ficial government policy. In police work we called it gang =0Aor crowd me
ntality, and it is alive and well in government.=0A=0ADo not archive =0A>
===
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