Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:32 AM - changing thread names etc (akflyer)
2. 06:29 PM - Re: varnish before or after? (jerry evans)
3. 07:23 PM - Re: changing thread names etc (Lowell Fitt)
4. 08:08 PM - Re: Trailering (david yeamans)
5. 08:43 PM - Re: changing thread names etc (akflyer)
6. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: Need airport access ideas...help (James Shumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | changing thread names etc |
I know some of you are very passionate about chaning a thread name, but do you
really know when you should do it???
The purpose of a forum with THREADS is so someone can ask a question or bring up
an issue, and you can talk about it by replying IN THAT THREAD. This keeps
the entire "conversation" inline and easy to follow. If at some point in the
thread you happen to se a fellow reply and it jogs your memory on another unrelated
story, you THEN start another thread about that OFF TOPIC reply.
A little wandering here and there in a thread kinda helps to keep it interesting
for me, but other thin skinned individuals seem to really get tore up about
about it. We need to be thoughtful of thse guys as some of them are getting
up in age and WE darn sure dont want to be the ones that send them to the hospital
with chest pains as the off topic stuff can be quite strenuous to read.
I see ALOT of guys that are creating a new thread, putting was bla bla bla in the
tittle then carring on the same conversation that should have stayed in the
original thread. These threads can get to be many pages long, and that is fine.
I am a member of lots of different forums on lots of different subjects and
this one is by far the worst one for changing thread titles I find one long
thread much easier to read and find information in, that 57 scattered threads
with 2 posts each... not to mention trying to read a digest in the moring with
your first cup of coffe.. is this... was that...
I know, I know.. if I dont like I can leave right.. well guess what, there WAY
TO MUCH valuble info traded every day for me to want to leave. I just want to
try and help make it better.
just my $1.25... I know its alot but I typed way too much for it to only be .02
--------
Leni
Avid C W/582
1260 full lotus
.......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-823#95823
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: varnish before or after? |
I'm gluing first then varnishing the glue. If anyone knows I'd like to hear
I cannot find this advice in my old assembly manual and figured I'd ask
the list. Do you varnish new ribs before or after gluing them in?? It might
be better to reply to occom@ns.sympatico.ca rather than start an argument if
it can go both ways.
Do not archive
Jerry Evans
kitfox 555
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: changing thread names etc |
I have some thoughts regarding Leni's post - this will be mostly be in the
"etc." catagory.
First let me say that I am probably one of the old guys - probably in more
ways than I want to admit. Actually I have never really worried too much
about changning thread names. This is probably due to the version of the
list I prefer. What I do have trouble with, though, is the posts,
apparently to the forum version of the list, where the original post or at
least a previous post is not appended. There have been lots of times I
found I had no idea what was being talked about. And unless the subject was
very compelling or the poster had a compelling history in my mind, I just
hit the delete key as clicking on the forum link on the bottom just is not
my way of doing things.
Maybe this is age related, but I think more accurately it is habit related.
This list has been part of my morning routine since 1994 the year after I
started building. Until recently that was the way it was done with all
participants. Send a post and it arrives at all subscribers mail boxes and
any reply is appended to the previous post. I read everything. If a new
subject heading was made - no problem. I understand that not removing the
previous posts on a reply can make large archival files and leaving the
appended posts on long threads is discouraged, but on every post I received
I could easily bring myself up to speed on what is being discussed. Maybe
just a bad habit and old dogs and new tricks, I suppose.
There seems to be a "new breed" (not my term, I might add) of contributors
that as Leni suggests are participating on lots of forums and are quite
comfortable with this new version of an old list. What I wonder as I
continue to hit the delete key is this. Is it incumbant on the "old" guys
to adapt to the way the new gius like doing things, or should it be the
other way around. I think a bit of respect for some tradition would be
quite appropriate. Not to mention respect for the habits of the likely 300
or so old time lurkers who are used to the way it has always worked.
I could probably name about 20 past contributors who would be on my must
read list when they posted who are no longer with us or may still lurk with
rare posts. Experienced builders with lots of wise counsel to offer who
found for one reason or another that staying with the list was simply not
worth the effort. I have also had private notes from valued current list
members who have signed off in frustration only to come back in the hope
things had improved, and others who are a click away from leaving forever.
I confess at times to those feelings as well.
I don't know what the ansewers are, but I think some serious thought might
be given to what people hope the list is or will become. It is informal
despite the "List Janitors" as they refer to themselves or "List Nazis" as
the more free spirited have called them, but it is never-the-less evolving
and as I see it it can go only two ways, for better or for worse. I suspect
that some of this has to do with the lag in new builders precipitated by the
demise of Skyster Aircraft and the build up to speed of Kitfox LLC. Where
in the past most participants were builders, it would appear that the more
vocal of recent participants did not in fact build their airplanes and that
in itself has changed the domographic of the list at least in those who
participate. We are told from time to time that we have about 400 list
subscribers and we can probably count only about 20 or thirty that
contribute regularly.
I did a brief count one day and found that one newly added member had
contributed close to 400 times in his first three months of participation
and this person was not a builder but a recent buyer, actually new to the
Kitfox. The posts were often interesting, but just as often simply off the
mark as far as good usable information was concerned - much reminiscent of
a forum type chat room.
I have met and enjoyed lots of folks through the e-mails posted and feel I
have good friends in most parts of the US and elsewhere who I have never met
face to face, and there are a dozen or so more who I do most of my flying
with who are not on the list and I have spent long hours in their company as
well - flying along side and on the ground.
This is not a swan song, but I feel compelled to remind everyone that we
each have a part in making this list work. If the majority is of the
opinion that it should be more of a chat room filled with banter and such,
that will be fine with me in my absense and I suspect others as well. If it
is to remain as a technical forum with posts related to the building and
flying of Kitfox aircraft (Avid and others welcome) Then that is fine also
and mirrors the feelings of most that have sent me private e-mails.
Thanks to Leni for introducing a bit of philosophical list talk.
P.S. After re-reading my post, the thought came to me that Mat Dralle
administers lots of lists. It might work for those interested in a more
chatty version to contact him and start a forum more suited to their needs.
I lurked - and still do - on the Matronics version of the Lancair list and
haven't had a post from that list for a year or more. Maybe that one could
be renamed the Kitfox-Avid pilots list or something similar and there would
be something for everyone.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 7:31 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: changing thread names etc
>
> I know some of you are very passionate about chaning a thread name, but do
> you really know when you should do it???
>
> The purpose of a forum with THREADS is so someone can ask a question or
> bring up an issue, and you can talk about it by replying IN THAT THREAD.
> This keeps the entire "conversation" inline and easy to follow. If at
> some point in the thread you happen to se a fellow reply and it jogs your
> memory on another unrelated story, you THEN start another thread about
> that OFF TOPIC reply.
> A little wandering here and there in a thread kinda helps to keep it
> interesting for me, but other thin skinned individuals seem to really get
> tore up about about it. We need to be thoughtful of thse guys as some of
> them are getting up in age and WE darn sure dont want to be the ones that
> send them to the hospital with chest pains as the off topic stuff can be
> quite strenuous to read.
>
> I see ALOT of guys that are creating a new thread, putting was bla bla bla
> in the tittle then carring on the same conversation that should have
> stayed in the original thread. These threads can get to be many pages
> long, and that is fine. I am a member of lots of different forums on lots
> of different subjects and this one is by far the worst one for changing
> thread titles I find one long thread much easier to read and find
> information in, that 57 scattered threads with 2 posts each... not to
> mention trying to read a digest in the moring with your first cup of
> coffe.. is this... was that...
>
> I know, I know.. if I dont like I can leave right.. well guess what, there
> WAY TO MUCH valuble info traded every day for me to want to leave. I just
> want to try and help make it better.
>
> just my $1.25... I know its alot but I typed way too much for it to only
> be .02
>
> --------
> Leni
> Avid C W/582
> 1260 full lotus
>
> .......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-823#95823
>
>
>
Message 4
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Rexinator,
I'm glad you replied. I was strongly inclined to do so. some
time
ago on the foxlist, can't remember who it was, but someone moved and
hauled his Kitfox in a uhall truck to there new home. when they
arrived
he opened the truck, and his kitfox was the same as demolished.
Before loading the kitfox, he swung the wings back, fasten them
to
the stand-offs rolled it up in the truck and away he went. All that
bouncing
for a long hall, and all that leverage on the wings took it toll, along
with
other over torqued stress on the rest of the airplane. A boat trailer
would have been the safest.
i moved my Kitfox from the lake of the ozarks at Osage beach,
Mo.
to pleasanto, Ks, 150 mile away. I hauled my fusealage on a Bob cat
trailer mounted on blocks of styrofoam, and had my wings laying on
ropes streched tight just below the ceiling of a uhall truck. When I
arrived,
everything was OK.
Becareful when tranporting your airplane, you can do more damage
than you realize.
David , Kitfox
IV 1200 , Rotax, 912 UL
From: Rexinator
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering
Maybe I'm guilty of stating the obvious, but I haven't noticed yet
this
time around that anyone mentioned the risk of G loads from the
suspension on a heavy duty trailer. A lightly loaded heavy duty
suspension will give a rough ride for your airplane. A trailer that is
truly custom designed to carry a relatively light weight but large
bulky
load such as our Kitfoxes should have the axle suspension rated for
the
weight of the load plus some small percent, say 10%. You should factor
in other things you may regularly carry with the aircraft. Fuel tanks
plus fuel and tools for instance. I would think of trailering like
flying at gross weight into potentially very rough weather.
I have an open car carrier rated to 6,000 lbs, but I am careful to
travel over smooth roads and go very slow where there are rough
surfaces. I also reduced air pressure in the trailer and gear tires.
My
ratcheting cargo straps were many with just a little slack to allow
the
gear to absorb shock loads as well.
Since you should want an enclosed trailer you will also want to
secure
the airplane so that it can not jostle around inside and bang against
the enclosure. Thus a properly rated suspension is more essential for
the long trips. I think I read somewhere that a pothole can easily
transmit over 12 G's through your suspension which of course WILL
cause
damage if it gets to the airframe. I would imagine an adjustable air
suspension would work best. Tandem axles on a trailer gives a much
smoother ride. The point is to consider the suspension when deciding
on
a trailer.
Rex
Colorado
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: changing thread names etc |
The point of my post was not to start another "list" or "Forum" but to try and
make the currentone more user friendly. When you look at the forum page scroll
down the first page and you may see what I meen. in more than one case, ther
is a thread asking a question, and a different thread withthe answer. My goal
would be to get those two together.
AS far as respect. For the most part, I was brought up to respect my elders and
even a suggestion for an argument could get you something you did not want..
or something that may take a few seconds to minutes to wake up from... Just ask
eskflyer lol..
With that being said, just as we have gone (for the most part) from open cockpit
bi-planes to space travel, so have the workings of the net. For the most part,
things have been changed to make it faster and easier to use. I also resist
change and was pretty pissed when my puter did an automatic update to IE 7..
till I figured out how to use it and make it do what I wanted.
I did have my emails set get every update.. now it is a sometimes hard to follow
digest. In reality, it is much easier to just click your favorites and have
a cool forum come up that you can EASILY see the topics and read through... till
you see.... is this.... was that ..... should have been this but was really
named that...
If you want to talk about a fuel tank, you can
1) search "fuel tank" or scroll down the page till you see the topic, click it,
then read it and see if your question was answered. If not reply to THAT thread
bringing it and your NEW question about the fuel tank to the top for all to
see and maybe learn from.
2) start another thread cause you are more like me and want someone to answer YOUR
question within the next 30 seconds cause you dont have all day to sit around
and surf the net... wait.. I do surf all day...but I want it answered right
now anyway.
3) look for a thread that sounds like something you want to look at, then start
another thread that begins with "was fuel tank now.. does any one know anything
about a tank that may hold fuel"
or
4) get discusted cause it has been brought up approximately 3478 times in the
last year so you start a thread that begins with "was fuel tank now is hey dumb
a$$ do a search for it.
As you can see they all will eventually get your question answered but one of the
options is pretty clean and does not start more clutter.
I say we need to meet in the middle.. I want to learn from you about thse wonderful
planes, and maybe you can get up to speed and learn something that makes
the forum humm along a little easier.
your call on what you choose to do, just tossing out an idea, not a fight starter.
I do hope you can see that I have a wee bit of a sence of humour and would really
like to see other try and find theirs and not get so uptight about the littlest
of things..
--------
Leni
Avid C W/582
1260 full lotus
.......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-961#95961
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Need airport access ideas...help |
Tom=0A =0AWhen dealing with cities and other government entities 2 years is
a normal response time and one year is almost instantaneous. This quick t
ime frame is reserved for billing. One other little item to know, if you w
ant to get your request okay-ed by the commission, you first need to convin
ce the airport manager that HE should recommend your request to the commiss
ion. The reason is that the airport commissioners may not have any knowled
ge about flying, or airports. They may just be citizens who are doing a ci
vic duty or putting in time to work their way up to the city council and th
en maybe to Mayor and beyond. So guess who they are looking to for guidanc
e. I had no idea how much wisdom I would gain when I became an airport com
missioner at SNS. =0A =0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: Tom Jones <nahsikhs@elltel.net>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0A
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 7:44:47 AM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: N
"Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>=0A=0A=0A> Sounds like you have a very nic
e airport manager and will be able to work something out. Going to the Airp
ort Commission might surprise you how slooow things can happen in governmen
t. If you convince the advisory board then they must put the business on th
e agenda and publish the agenda and then their recommendations can be sent
to the City council who can then send it to their legal council who can the
n return it with amendments and then if it doesn't have to be reconsidered
because of the feelings of some local pilots feeling of fairness then you m
ight get the change in a few months...probably in time for next (2008) summ
ers flying season. =0A=0A=0AYou are right about the slowness Jim. I went t
o the county on Jan. 12th to ask for a gate key figureing there might be a
security check or such that might take a couple weeks. Instead of getting
a key I was told I could go to the next Airport Advisory board meeting sche
duled for Feb. 13 and give input on the Key policy. I told the airport man
ager I would be there. I went to the meeting last night to find an empty c
onference room. The meeting was canceled due to lack of agenda items. Cra
p, I guess I was the only agenda item but not important enough to be notifi
ed the meeting was cancelled. I'll quit wineing now. Do not archive.=0ATo
m Jones=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matro
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