---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/19/07: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:25 AM - test-disregard (fox5flyer) 2. 06:04 AM - Re: Trailering (Floyd Johnson) 3. 07:07 AM - Trailer Info (Floyd Johnson) 4. 07:42 AM - Re: Trailering (Tom Jones) 5. 08:27 AM - Re: Annual Condition Inspection Check list (akflyer) 6. 08:51 AM - Emailing: Inspection Checklist- Airplane (Clem Nichols) 7. 10:41 AM - Wheels with Brakes now available for the 8" King Fox tires (Kevin Ridsdale) 8. 11:07 AM - Re: changing thread names etc (Tom Jones) 9. 01:04 PM - GSC Propeller (Barry West) 10. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Trailering (kirk hull) 11. 01:51 PM - Re: GSC Propeller (kurt schrader) 12. 02:15 PM - Re: Coordinated turns to base and final (Rueb, Duane) 13. 02:35 PM - Re: GSC Propeller (Noel Loveys) 14. 02:51 PM - changing thread names etc (fox5flyer) 15. 03:51 PM - Re: GSC Propeller (D. Fisher) 16. 04:34 PM - Re: GSC Propeller (Don Smythe) 17. 05:01 PM - Re: GSC Propeller (TC) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:38 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: test-disregard test ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:37 AM PST US From: "Floyd Johnson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering One of the most important things to do when trailering your KitFox is to take the weight off the tailwheel. I don't know if this has been suggested recently, but the bouncing of the trailer places many more "G's" on the fusalage than a hard landing. I built my own trailer and installed two steel straps back where the tubes go thru to either side. I made them long enough to take the strain off the tailwheel and run a long 1/4inch bolt thru with a wingnut to secure it. It is simple and does the job well. If anyone is interested, I'll provide some pictures. I can also provide photos of the trailer with some details should anyone care to build their own. It is open, but capable of trailering my plane, a MOD IV 1200, on wheels, skis, and floats. Regards, Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: david yeamans Sent: 2/18/2007 11:13:36 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering Rexinator, I'm glad you replied. I was strongly inclined to do so. some time ago on the foxlist, can't remember who it was, but someone moved and hauled his Kitfox in a uhall truck to there new home. when they arrived he opened the truck, and his kitfox was the same as demolished. Before loading the kitfox, he swung the wings back, fasten them to the stand-offs rolled it up in the truck and away he went. All that bouncing for a long hall, and all that leverage on the wings took it toll, along with other over torqued stress on the rest of the airplane. A boat trailer would have been the safest. i moved my Kitfox from the lake of the ozarks at Osage beach, Mo. to pleasanto, Ks, 150 mile away. I hauled my fusealage on a Bob cat trailer mounted on blocks of styrofoam, and had my wings laying on ropes streched tight just below the ceiling of a uhall truck. When I arrived, everything was OK. Becareful when tranporting your airplane, you can do more damage than you realize. David , Kitfox IV 1200 , Rotax, 912 UL From: Rexinator Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 7:00 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering Maybe I'm guilty of stating the obvious, but I haven't noticed yet this time around that anyone mentioned the risk of G loads from the suspension on a heavy duty trailer. A lightly loaded heavy duty suspension will give a rough ride for your airplane. A trailer that is truly custom designed to carry a relatively light weight but large bulky load such as our Kitfoxes should have the axle suspension rated for the weight of the load plus some small percent, say 10%. You should factor in other things you may regularly carry with the aircraft. Fuel tanks plus fuel and tools for instance. I would think of trailering like flying at gross weight into potentially very rough weather. I have an open car carrier rated to 6,000 lbs, but I am careful to travel over smooth roads and go very slow where there are rough surfaces. I also reduced air pressure in the trailer and gear tires. My ratcheting cargo straps were many with just a little slack to allow the gear to absorb shock loads as well. Since you should want an enclosed trailer you will also want to secure the airplane so that it can not jostle around inside and bang against the enclosure. Thus a properly rated suspension is more essential for the long trips. I think I read somewhere that a pothole can easily transmit over 12 G's through your suspension which of course WILL cause damage if it gets to the airframe. I would imagine an adjustable air suspension would work best. Tandem axles on a trailer gives a much smoother ride. The point is to consider the suspension when deciding on a ========================http://www.matron====================== bsp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:14 AM PST US From: "Floyd Johnson" Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailer Info OK Guys, I'll get some pictures of my trailer to you as soon as I can dig it out of the snow. It is supposed to warm up here this weekend, so I'll make an effort to take pictures and send them to you. Regards, Floyd Floyd Johnson kitfox69@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:25 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering From: "Tom Jones" Floyd, I would like to see the pictures of your trailer. I am pondering how to build the tail support now so that would be of special interest to me. thanks, Tom Jones do not archive. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'018#96018 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:45 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Annual Condition Inspection Check list From: "akflyer" Lowel, If you can scan it in (your current check list) and email or fax it to me, I can clean it up, make a PDF of it and anyone would be able to download a clean PDF for future use. I would have to get it done before I head back home from work at the end of the day tomorrow. I have scanned in the entire Avid build manual and have that in PDF format also. If someone has a kitfox manual, they can send it to me and I can PDF it for all to be able to use if need be.. Just an offer... -------- Leni Avid C W/582 1260 full lotus .......DO NOT ARCHIVE..... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'027#96027 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:11 AM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Kitfox-List: Emailing: Inspection Checklist- Airplane Here is a sample checklist you may find helpful. It was provided by Mike Huffman of Sport Aviation Specialties, an ELSA DAR. Clem Nichols The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Inspection Checklist- Airplane ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:03 AM PST US From: Kevin Ridsdale Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheels with Brakes now available for the 8" King Fox tires Good news The wait is finaly over the wheels for the 8" King Fox tires for Mippi are now available. It comes with an external caliper brake that is rated at 2200 in-lbs at 450 PSI. /It used 1.25 inch taper roller bearings on each wheel it is rated for 750 lbs static load with a 3G overload ultimate load. Cost is $295.75 each plus shipping. send your inquiries to MiPPi Ultralights 734-377-2670 or ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:42 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: changing thread names etc From: "Tom Jones" I read the list on the internet http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=ab1531ee468c5f957cadfc1a88256cd1 so I don't have to start and stop the email subscription when I travel. I have come to prefer this method over the emails because this is so easy and well organized. Some aspects of this system do continue to be somewhat of a mystery to me though. My question is to those that read the email versions. Are my replies coming with a topic heading? Can you easily tell what topic I am replying to? Do I need to do something different to make life easier for those trying to follow the threads I reply to? Tom Jones, computer neyophite Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'065#96065 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:40 PM PST US From: "Barry West" Subject: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller I would be remiss if I did not make other owners of GSC props aware of this. I think the people at GSC are good competent people and don't want to say nor do anything to hurt their business but feel I must get this message out. Yesterday I took off from the airport and right after leveling at 2500 all three blades departed the hub. I landed the 912 S powered Kitfox with out any problems. This was an updated three blade with the aluminum bases and a bolt going through the aluminum base and the wood blade. The blades came out clean, leaving wood on the barbs of the bases, on the long wood screws that ran parallel to the blades and a chunk of wood behind each bolt. There was a big bump when it occurred and the engine was definitely moved within the mounts but seems to have returned to its original position. One carb came out of its socket and this is probably what kept the engine from over revving. I have already communicated with Lockwood and GSC and will speak to John McBean soon. Barry West ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:52 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering I set up the tail support to be a stand for the tail to sit in. this way the tail spring helps cushion out some of the bumps. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:41 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering Floyd, I would like to see the pictures of your trailer. I am pondering how to build the tail support now so that would be of special interest to me. thanks, Tom Jones do not archive. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'018#96018 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:59 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller Thanks for the info Barry. Glad you are still here to tell us. Someone is definately looking out for you, besides the expert airmenship too. Kurt S. --- Barry West wrote: ......... > Yesterday I took off from the airport and right > after leveling at 2500 all three blades departed the > hub.............. Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:53 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Coordinated turns to base and final From: "Rueb, Duane" Lynn: Yes, you are cross controlling in the pattern when you do a slip on approach. A forward slip will have you crossing the most, a side slip the least. The critical factor here is air speed and proficiency. What the books that say never do this mean, is never do this until you have gained enough proficiency to do it with the understanding that air speed is involved and must be maintained at a level sufficiently above stall to avoid one. Now, normally when we do these on approach, we have an excess of altitude, so that air speed is probably also a little high. Stalling near the ground is the worst maneuver that we could do there, and one of the best to practice at a safe altitude for the purpose of both recognizing how they happen, and to practice the best recovery techniques. Since we are usually taught to fly coordinated first, the books tend to emphasize this, and make it seem that one would never do otherwise. What they should say, is not to do any un-coordinated maneuver near the ground unless you are proficient enough to understand how to do so safely. Some aircraft are better than others at doing cross control maneuvers, and may be restricted to flap settings when crossing. Practice these at altitude so you understand how your plane behaves before doing them on an approach. Duane Rueb -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:10 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coordinated turns to base and final Isn't a slip a cross-control? And if I'm doing it on final, because I came in too high, am I not in the pattern? Lynn On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote: > It's interesting how the books warn, "DON'T CROSS CONTROL IN THE > PATTERN!" But they don't say why you would be cross controlled in > the pattern in the first place. Clem has given the perfect example; > it's often caused by descending turns, and how they feel different > than level turns. > > Guy Buchanan > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:22 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller I know if it were me I would need the seat pads in the plane replaced too. Don't bother playing the lottery for a while.... You've used up a fair supply of good luck! Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > kurt schrader > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:21 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller > > > > > Thanks for the info Barry. Glad you are still here to > tell us. Someone is definately looking out for you, > besides the expert airmenship too. > > Kurt S. > > --- Barry West wrote: > ......... > > Yesterday I took off from the airport and right > > after leveling at 2500 all three blades departed the > > hub.............. > > > > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews > at Yahoo! Games. > http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 > > > > > > > Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). > http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:08 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: changing thread names etc Tom, probably the vast majority of the list members are still using the email version of Matronics, including myself. It's what we've always used, it's what we're used to, and we're comfortable with it. It's very simple to edit in/out parts of the previous message so that the reader knows exactly what is being discussed. The subject line alone doesn't always reflect that. As for the internet forum version, it's fine too if that is what you prefer. However, it would help everyone concerned if you used the "quote" feature when replying to a message. There's a quote button on every message and it's simple to use. Please don't forget the "do not archive" also when appropriate. Deke List Admin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:06 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: changing thread names etc > > I read the list on the internet http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=ab1531ee468c5f957cadfc1a88256cd1 so I don't have to start and stop the email subscription when I travel. I have come to prefer this method over the emails because this is so easy and well organized. Some aspects of this system do continue to be somewhat of a mystery to me though. > > My question is to those that read the email versions. Are my replies coming with a topic heading? Can you easily tell what topic I am replying to? Do I need to do something different to make life easier for those trying to follow the threads I reply to? > > Tom Jones, computer neyophite > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'065#96065 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:46 PM PST US From: "D. Fisher" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller Did it look like this ? http://www.cfisher.com/gsc/ All props can depart at anytime, That is why i have a 1/8" atached to engine and airframe in case of separation. You lose your engine in a Kitfox and I think you will be outta control . I have hands on experience in blade departures as well. The one in picture was not mine. Glad it all worked out for you. Practice does not make perfect but it sure is better than without. I did some dead stick videos on youtube as well. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry West To: Kitfox List Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:51 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller I would be remiss if I did not make other owners of GSC props aware of this. I think the people at GSC are good competent people and don't want to say nor do anything to hurt their business but feel I must get this message out. Yesterday I took off from the airport and right after leveling at 2500 all three blades departed the hub. I landed the 912 S powered Kitfox with out any problems. This was an updated three blade with the aluminum bases and a bolt going through the aluminum base and the wood blade. The blades came out clean, leaving wood on the barbs of the bases, on the long wood screws that ran parallel to the blades and a chunk of wood behind each bolt. There was a big bump when it occurred and the engine was definitely moved within the mounts but seems to have returned to its original position. One carb came out of its socket and this is probably what kept the engine from over revving. I have already communicated with Lockwood and GSC and will speak to John McBean soon. Barry West ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:58 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller Dave, Please re-read what you posted and explain. A 1/8" what? All props can depart at anytime, That is why i have a 1/8" atached to engine and airframe in case of separation. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:17 PM PST US From: "TC" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller Hey Barry, How many hours were on the blades? Was the aircraft always hangared? Did the prop ever see weather? Just fyi, concerning the bolt through the blade roots GSC advised the hubs for the 912 have always been that way. Thanks, Ted _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry West Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:52 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: GSC Propeller I would be remiss if I did not make other owners of GSC props aware of this. I think the people at GSC are good competent people and don't want to say nor do anything to hurt their business but feel I must get this message out. Yesterday I took off from the airport and right after leveling at 2500 all three blades departed the hub. I landed the 912 S powered Kitfox with out any problems. This was an updated three blade with the aluminum bases and a bolt going through the aluminum base and the wood blade. The blades came out clean, leaving wood on the barbs of the bases, on the long wood screws that ran parallel to the blades and a chunk of wood behind each bolt. There was a big bump when it occurred and the engine was definitely moved within the mounts but seems to have returned to its original position. One carb came out of its socket and this is probably what kept the engine from over revving. I have already communicated with Lockwood and GSC and will speak to John McBean soon. Barry West ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.