---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/27/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:47 AM - Re: Rotax service (George Wells) 2. 02:18 PM - Re: Updated GPS info - Plotting on Google Earth. HOW TO DO (Michel Verheughe) 3. 04:33 PM - CO2 in Cockpit (Rex Shaw) 4. 04:42 PM - Good bye for a while. (QSS) 5. 04:52 PM - Re: Updated GPS info - Plotting on Google Earth. HOW TO DO (Noel Loveys) 6. 05:06 PM - Re: 582 Exhaust Fumes (Noel Loveys) 7. 05:18 PM - Tyres (Rex Shaw) 8. 06:10 PM - Re: Good bye for a while. (jeff puls) 9. 06:51 PM - Re: Good bye for a while. (john perry) 10. 06:58 PM - Re: Good bye for a while. (helicop) 11. 10:18 PM - Re: Good bye for a while. (Rick) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:56 AM PST US From: "George Wells" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax service I Agree -- Bob has been great with parts and questions I have had. Being in Canada is not a problem. George Wells ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:14 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Updated GPS info - Plotting on Google Earth. HOW TO DO On Feb 27, 2007, at 2:54 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > That's what I've been saying for a long time now.... GPS is great... > But > .... Charts and dead reckoning works without batteries. Of course, Noel! Now, I have been flying for only four years but I have sailed, and navigate for some 45 years. Here is my experience: Navigation starts by position assessment. Before the accuracy of the GPS, it was based on several observations, radio or visual bearings, recognition of the coastline or buoyage, and ... flair. The idea is; if only one input doesn't agree with the total picture - turn 180 degrees then start thinking! Mind you, you don't always need to know where you are. Sometimes knowing where you are not, suffice. For example, as long as you don't see the coast, there is little chance you will run ashore. The problem with the GPS and digital moving maps is that you put all your navigational assets in one basket. Just as you keep at any time an eye open for a landing place in case your uncertified engine should stop, you should also know where you are, in case your GPS stops. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:35 PM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: CO2 in Cockpit Just wanted to get an idea from the 582 flyers how many have a fully closed cowling in front? I have the "Radial" look with a monster opening in the front. I have struggled with exhaust fumes getting into the cockpit. I have limited the airflow a bit but am considering closing off all the front of cowling except around the prop shaft. I have read that the input pressure in the engine compartment may be too much with only a little outlet at the bottom and no where for fumes to go. C02 detector used to get pretty high Hi ! Jareds, Rex here from Australia. I have a MKIV with cowling like yours and a 582. Occasionally I have noticed fumes on climb out only. I put in a cheap detector after flying with a friend that has a notorious nose for CO2. In fact he is our club flying instructor and most highly respect him. Anyway after putting in this cheap detector about six months ago I haven't noticed any fumes. it seems to have scared them off. Also despite looking a few times I've not seen any change in colour on the detector either. I've always cosidered the fumes momentary and insignificant but my friend did make me a little nervous and so I put in the detector to check. I have Grove gear and so no holes there and as I say have only rarely noticed fumes on climb out only. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:00 PM PST US From: "QSS" Subject: Kitfox-List: Good bye for a while. Hi Guys, I have unfortunately come to a cross roads in my flying and have after much thought decided to sell my fox. I have been unable to come to terms with the crash or for that matter get back into my comfort zone. I have always had a passion for flying and to own my own aircraft has been a dream come true but the enjoyment has now been replaced by negative thoughts and an idle aircraft. The pity is that I know Im a good pilot and that the rebuild has resulted in a strong and reliable aircraft. Its just the demon on my shoulder wont allow me to accept it. I will miss the friendly banter and good natured shots across the bow that have resulted from the many topics discussed and encourage you all to continue in this manner. The list administrators should be proud of their flock and the respect shown for each others opinions. Thanks Deke, your a good bloke and even handed moderator. Thanks you also Mat for your tireless work and for providing a resource that allows us all to tell lies about our flying prowess and our beautiful birds. To all who help with encouragement and parts during my rebuild, my sincere thanks because without you my fox would still be sitting in the back paddock. I will drop in from time to time to see whats being discussed and possibly just to say hi. I never thought I would say it but, "Mat, please remove me from the list". Cheers to all Graeme ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:50 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Updated GPS info - Plotting on Google Earth. HOW TO DO "Putting all your navigational assets in one basket" is a really nice way of putting it. I use the GPS mostly to track my flight but.... Yes there are times that I've just pointed my nose using the GPS. Takes into account little things like drift. Boy do I have a story I could tell there! All my flying is VFR which means that I see where I'm going. The beauty of using the charts is from the charts I choose land marks and then fly, out the window, from one landmark to the next. Knowing how to dead recon is a valuable asset even though I seldom ever get to use it. Wait 'till I get to the prairies in two years! Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michel Verheughe > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 6:46 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Updated GPS info - Plotting on > Google Earth. HOW TO DO > > > > On Feb 27, 2007, at 2:54 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > That's what I've been saying for a long time now.... GPS is > great... > > But > > .... Charts and dead reckoning works without batteries. > > Of course, Noel! > Now, I have been flying for only four years but I have sailed, and > navigate for some 45 years. Here is my experience: Navigation > starts by > position assessment. Before the accuracy of the GPS, it was based on > several observations, radio or visual bearings, recognition of the > coastline or buoyage, and ... flair. The idea is; if only one input > doesn't agree with the total picture - turn 180 degrees then start > thinking! > > Mind you, you don't always need to know where you are. Sometimes > knowing where you are not, suffice. For example, as long as you don't > see the coast, there is little chance you will run ashore. > > The problem with the GPS and digital moving maps is that you put all > your navigational assets in one basket. Just as you keep at > any time an > eye open for a landing place in case your uncertified engine should > stop, you should also know where you are, in case your GPS stops. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:35 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Fumes The fellow who built my plane left a good size opening along th4e bottom of the aft cowl to allow air coming in the front to escape. If there is any problem with that set up it is the space between the front Fake Townsend ring and the rear cowls. This can create a lot of turbulence over the rear cowls which can effect your cruise speed. There are others on this list who can speak about this with a lot more authority than I can. I do however think the length of your exhaust pipes is very important. If they are too short fumes can be sucked in through the bungee openings. I expect there may also be smaller openings along the bottom of the fuselage on aircraft that sport the Grove spring gear. I am surprised that no one, myself included, hasn't tried fitting an extruder pipe to the exhaust. What it effectively does is creates an envelope of cold air around the hot exhaust. This will make the engine exhaust a lot quieter with absolutely no back pressure. BTW this is the same technology used in the first generation "Hush jets"! DHC Beavers and some Pipers (Aztec) have been using extruders for years. Actually I think you will find the extruders on the Aztec works so well they didn't bother with an exhaust silencer. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jareds > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:58 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Fumes > > > > Just wanted to get an idea from the 582 flyers how many have a fully > closed cowling in front? > I have the "Radial" look with a monster opening in the front. I have > struggled with exhaust fumes getting into the cockpit. I > have limited > the airflow a bit but am considering closing off all the front of > cowling except around the prop shaft. I have read that the input > pressure in the engine compartment may be too much with only a little > outlet at the bottom and no where for fumes to go. C02 > detector used to > get pretty high until i put some harley building skills to > use by using > header wrap around the muffler links and putting plastic paper inside > the firewall. > > 1 Any thoughts on closing the cowl front completely.. any > disadvantages > like heat dispation? > 2 Do you think this will cure the fumes issue? > > Thanks in advance to all the good ideas i'm sure i'll be getting. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:46 PM PST US From: "Rex Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tyres KitFoxers, I recently purchased a Model IV Speedster. The kit came with wheel pants, but the builder never installed them, opting for large tundra tires instead. I would like to install the wheel pants. I've read somewhere that the tires that go under the pants are a different size than the stock tires. But I've never seen it written anywhere as to what that size is. So, some questions: -- What is the "standard" Kitfox tire size? --What size tire goes under the wheel pants? -- What pressures does everybody typically run in their tires? The builder included the wheel pants. In reading the installation instructions, there is a spindle that is used to support the outboard end of the pants. Hi ! Nick, Rex here from Australia. I have a MKIV with Grove gear. I have Douglas 8" steel rims. I think some have Aluminium. The tyres originally on mine were buffed down 2 ply ATV tyres. In my opinion these are a total disaster. They get prickle punctures if you go within a mile of the grass and they do slightly touch inside the wheel pants. I think they were something like 22 x 7 x 8. I'm not real sure now. Anyway I've now had Lawn Mower / Golf Cart tyres fitted for a couple of years. I really love them. So much so I have bought new spares for when I wear them out in case I can't find them anymore. However they hardly show any wear at all in the 2 years I've been running them.. Well they are Goodyear Made in USA Softrac RS 4 Ply 18 x 6.50 x 8. They don't touch inside the pants and don't get punctures. The one problem I did have was a valve getting bent over and just starting to tear enough to leak. I was running the original ATV tyres at 9 PSI. When I first put on these new tyres I was running 14 PSI because my friend talked me into the low pressure to reduce bouncing but as we all know it's not bouncing anyway. This is when the tyres turned a little and I got the valve trouble. Since then I have run 18 PSI with no sign of trouble. Originally I set them up without tubes but was getting slow leakage where the rims had some slight distortion on the inside from the disc brake mounting lugs being welded on. So I put in the tubes. The other point here is that some brainless person at Douglas had drilled the valve holes in the rims dead oppossite a wheel stud. This makes it very arkward indeed to get to the valve to either adjust or check pressures especially with the wheel pants on, so I have now got new tubes ready for next fitting that have short bent valve stems. I think these will work fine. I see you've got feedback re the mounting spindles so I won't answer that as I can't tell you any better. Yes these tyres are treaded and the originals were smooth but I notice no difference and as I said I absolutely love them . Other than the leaks as tubeless and the bent valve I never have to touch them and the troubles are now behind me with running tubes and 18PSI. With the original tyres we were always fiddling with them adjusting pressure, repairing prickle punctures etc. The last problem is getting to the valve and my bent valve stems should fix that. Hope this info helps. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:35 PM PST US From: "jeff puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Good bye for a while. Graeme, I wish you would reconsider. I was involved in a pretty bad helicopter crash and I was the designated pilot in command. The last thing I saw out of the corner of my eye as we rolled over was the other pilot being ejected out of the aircraft. I thought that if I would go over and jump in another aircraft I would be fine. I did that the same day. It didn't help. I know about the demons and they seem like they will never go away. I remember being on the pad at 2:00 in the morning on ice and just the slight move of the collective would make the aircraft shift. I was going to give up flying. But guess what, with time that feeling went away. Each time you fly you get a little more confidence back. The crash was in 1981 and sometimes it feels like yesterday. But today I enjoy flying more than I ever have. Don't give it up, it will work out. Jeff Classic IV ----- Original Message ----- From: QSS To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:41 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Good bye for a while. Hi Guys, I have unfortunately come to a cross roads in my flying and have after much thought decided to sell my fox. I have been unable to come to terms with the crash or for that matter get back into my comfort zone. I have always had a passion for flying and to own my own aircraft has been a dream come true but the enjoyment has now been replaced by negative thoughts and an idle aircraft. The pity is that I know Im a good pilot and that the rebuild has resulted in a strong and reliable aircraft. Its just the demon on my shoulder wont allow me to accept it. I will miss the friendly banter and good natured shots across the bow that have resulted from the many topics discussed and encourage you all to continue in this manner. The list administrators should be proud of their flock and the respect shown for each others opinions. Thanks Deke, your a good bloke and even handed moderator. Thanks you also Mat for your tireless work and for providing a resource that allows us all to tell lies about our flying prowess and our beautiful birds. To all who help with encouragement and parts during my rebuild, my sincere thanks because without you my fox would still be sitting in the back paddock. I will drop in from time to time to see whats being discussed and possibly just to say hi. I never thought I would say it but, "Mat, please remove me from the list". Cheers to all Graeme ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:47 PM PST US From: "john perry" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Good bye for a while. Graeme We will all miss you and your humor . Come back when you can and chat with us all. Take care my friend May the friendly skies find you once more flying high. John Perry ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:18 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Good bye for a while. From: "helicop" Graeme, I have been around awhile, and I am old enough to be Jeff's great grandfather. Although I have not experienced what you and Jeff have gone thru, I can only imagine what you are going thru. It may even get harder, before it gets easier, but you have a great group here to support you. Even though I dont know you, I am sure the sound of a plane overheard still turns your head to see what it is, or someone that you know. I would encourage you to stay in the group, and let us all help you get thru this. There are several ways we can do this: 1. I could send you an mp3 file of me singing various selections. You would get so sick at your stomach, that you would promise God that you would go back flying if you could just stop that obnixious noise in your head. 2. I can have several severely ugly women come to your neighborhood and ask all the neighbors where that cute pilot fellow is, and they "haint leavin till he takes em a ride." 3. And last but not least, we will all swear that you quit aviation to take up a career doing James Brown Lives. I don't want to put pressure on you, but I think you may want to reconsider. Just think of the high level background check to get a security clearance to be put back on the list. Not to mention a new initiation fee, and back dues. Whatever your decision is, we sure hope that you will reconsider, and stay here and help the rest of us sort out life. Helicop Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=97768#97768 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:22 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Good bye for a while. Sorry to hear it. There is a poem. Cant remember the exact words. Something about once having flown we will always cast our eyes upward for there we have been and there we will always long to be. Hope you make the trip back my friend. Good luck in what ever you fill you time with. Best wishes Rick ( no plane any more ....I too look up a lot) -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of QSS Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 4:42 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Good bye for a while. Hi Guys, I have unfortunately come to a cross roads in my flying and have after much thought decided to sell my fox. I have been unable to come to terms with the crash or for that matter get back into my comfort zone. I have always had a passion for flying and to own my own aircraft has been a dream come true but the enjoyment has now been replaced by negative thoughts and an idle aircraft. The pity is that I know Im a good pilot and that the rebuild has resulted in a strong and reliable aircraft. Its just the demon on my shoulder wont allow me to accept it. I will miss the friendly banter and good natured shots across the bow that have resulted from the many topics discussed and encourage you all to continue in this manner. The list administrators should be proud of their flock and the respect shown for each others opinions. Thanks Deke, your a good bloke and even handed moderator. Thanks you also Mat for your tireless work and for providing a resource that allows us all to tell lies about our flying prowess and our beautiful birds. To all who help with encouragement and parts during my rebuild, my sincere thanks because without you my fox would still be sitting in the back paddock. I will drop in from time to time to see whats being discussed and possibly just to say hi. I never thought I would say it but, "Mat, please remove me from the list". Cheers to all Graeme ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.