Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Another Kitfox flies! (avtar412)
2. 01:15 AM - Re: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > (Michel Verheughe)
3. 02:27 AM - Re: wingtip crack- class glass products - floats (D. Fisher)
4. 03:34 AM - Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > (Bob)
5. 04:29 AM - Re: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > (Michel Verheughe)
6. 04:48 AM - Re: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > (fox5flyer)
7. 06:11 AM - Re: Ram Engines Experience? (Michael Logan)
8. 08:37 AM - 912ULS heavy duty starter ? (alnanarthur)
9. 09:05 AM - Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (n85ae)
10. 09:29 AM - Turtledeck Flutter (n85ae)
11. 09:34 AM - Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (84KF)
12. 09:36 AM - Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (n85ae)
13. 10:01 AM - Re: Turtledeck Flutter (fox5flyer)
14. 10:02 AM - Re: 912ULS heavy duty starter ? (Clint Bazzill)
15. 10:45 AM - Re: Turtledeck Flutter (n85ae)
16. 11:20 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (Marco Menezes)
17. 12:27 PM - Re: 912ULS heavy duty starter ? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
18. 12:39 PM - Re: Re: Turtledeck Flutter (fox5flyer)
19. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Another Kitfox flies! (Lynn Matteson)
20. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > (Noel Loveys)
21. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: wingtip crack- class glass products - floats (Noel Loveys)
22. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > (Glenn Horne)
23. 03:01 PM - Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (vft@aol.com)
24. 04:05 PM - want kitfox (DEAN TINAGLIA)
25. 04:21 PM - Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > (akflyer)
26. 04:57 PM - Re: AD's question for airworthy cert (dcsfoto)
27. 06:08 PM - Weight & Balance issues ()
28. 06:45 PM - Re: AD's question for airworthy cert (pilotpat)
29. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: AD's question for airworthy cert (Clem Nichols)
30. 07:09 PM - Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (n85ae)
31. 07:41 PM - Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (Noel Loveys)
32. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (Jim Crowder)
33. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (Noel Loveys)
34. 08:51 PM - Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum (84KF)
35. 09:44 PM - Re: AD's question for airworthy cert (84KF)
36. 10:12 PM - Off topic Garbled e-mail from 84KF (me) (84KF)
37. 11:50 PM - Re: Off topic Garbled e-mail from 84KF (me) (Jim Crowder)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another Kitfox flies! |
:D Kerry, congratulations to Johann and your self. Having done the same just 1
year back I know the wonderful feeling you must have, well done. John A. New Zealand
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100946#100946
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > |
> From: john perry [eskflyer@lvcisp.com]
> If you have a problem with someone who cannot glass that is one thing but to
> insinuate that someone who builds boats does not know what they are doing
> is not very nice.
Question: What is exposed to sun, rain and gale winds 24/7, while being constantly
flexed by corrosive salty water masses?
Is it a bird? ... is it a plane? ... could it be a boat?
:-) Michel
do not archive
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack- class glass products - floats |
>>Question: What is exposed to sun, rain and gale winds 24/7, while being
>>constantly flexed by corrosive salty water masses?
>
> Is it a bird? ... is it a plane? ... could it be a boat?
<<
You glass guys have most likely run into a set of these floats, very
popular with the SuperCub guys.
Well a little big for Kitfox but these are my neighbour's product and
becoming very popular.
http://www.clamarfloats.com
It has been very popular so far and now a 3500 will be dressing up the
Murphy Mooses this year. Look for him as Sun n Fun if you are going.
After seeing the results,I would say that these have proven to be one of the
toughest floats on the market now.
I flew in there on Monday this week with 16 inches now - now it about 95%
gone.
And before you ask , he wil not be making anything under 2200s unless you
are willing to pay 25k for striaght floats. Personally I think there is
market for a 1400 to 1600 float for LSA stuff and there are some new ones to
surface in the next year or so.
That being said the Aerocet 1100s a decent float but could affoard to be a
little bigger displacement on the heavier Kitfoxes.
What would you pay for a set of floats ?
1400s straight or amphib ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:15 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >
>> From: john perry [eskflyer@lvcisp.com]
>> If you have a problem with someone who cannot glass that is one thing but
>> to
>> insinuate that someone who builds boats does not know what they are doing
>> is not very nice.
>
> Question: What is exposed to sun, rain and gale winds 24/7, while being
> constantly flexed by corrosive salty water masses?
>
> Is it a bird? ... is it a plane? ... could it be a boat?
>
>
> :-) Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > |
Whew, touchy bunch and methinks my answer was misconstrued a bit here. :)
No offense meant or taken, but my exact words were "...preferabley from somebody
who knows the difference between..." because there is a frequently a difference.
Hey, if you're comfortable working both, so much the better.
For those who don't know what this means, airplane work uses a lot less resin,
is more limited in types of resins to be used, typically uses more plies, of much
finer weaves, with strict ply control. I wasn't even referring to vacuum
bagging or autoclaves. Some marine/boat applications are identical, especially
in the high performance sailboats. If you want to see a boat application with
really high quality control, check out the mast or spar construction for some
of the racers! The fabric and resin control in some of the offshore racers
and racing motorcycle parts is fantastic!
However, there are a lot of people who do NOT know the difference. They'll get
whatever resin from Home Depot, have no idea about the cloth they buy or use
some old automotive cloth that was kept behind an oil furnace (oil can keep resin
from wetting the cloth), slop it on with a big old paintbrush of any type,
then fill it smooth with nice heavy automotive Bondo, and paint to match. I
can think of at least two homebuilts that had in-flight failures from this kind
of construction and have talked to FAA inspectors who see a lot of really heavy
composite homebuilts.
I grew up on Atwood Lake in Ohio and worked QC for several years in a CT composites
shop where our main products were rotorblades and other aircraft parts, so
I have some idea of both ends of the spectrum. Sorry if I offended, but I loved
the wit, too!
Bob
--------
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100953#100953
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > |
> From: Bob [dswaim1119@comcast.net]
> However, there are a lot of people who do NOT know the difference.
Of course, Bob! (Did you note the smiley at the end of my email?)
The key word here is; certification. If you have an aircraft or a boat that is
certified, it will be built according to some strict rules. If you have a boat
that is certified by e.g. Lloyds or DNV, you can be assured that it was not built
with just anything; the life of a seafarer is as important as the life of
an airman.
This being said, I am not sure you are right with the amount of resin used for
both application. When it comes to polyester resin and glassfiber, certification
authorities agree that the percentage of weight should be 70-30 with 70% of
glassfiber. That is what they have tested to give the best strenght-weight ratio,
I think.
One main difference must certainly be the weight, which is not so important for
seagoing craft. For an aircraft, strong but costly carbon fiber is certainly
the way to go if you can afford it. Kevlar is also a beautiful product. But there
are other improving techniques like my 27 feet sailboat that was built in
polyester and glassfiber but without catalyser. The hull is then put in an "oven"
and "baked" at 85 degrees C for 48 hours. The strenght is then supposed to
be 120% that of the catalyser technique. Of course, very few yards can afford
such an "oven" room.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > |
DO NOT ARCHIVE !!!
Need I say more?
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "john perry" <eskflyer@lvcisp.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >
>
> UHHH i dunno what ya talkin about that 3 inch whatever you said thingy is
> actually a shotgun blast from the last time we went snipe hunting and tilt
> is to the right you were facing backwards fring out the door when you
got
> the tip . and all that weight is from the duct tape and gorilla glue with
> the bluejean patch on top . dang cant you remember anything after burning
a
> few .
>
> Cant hardly wait to get back home and fly with ya bro
> Fly safe fly low fly slow
> John Perry
> Kitfox 2 N718PD
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:44 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >
>
>
> >
> > now I know why your bird flys with the left wing down all the
> > time....musta got a bit too much glass on that side.. I told you that a
> > full gallon of resin was not necessary for a lil ole 3" " linear
> > indication" (I hate the "c" word).....
> >
> > Didn't Dad teach you the difference between roving, mat and cloth and
the
> > appropriate times to use each... I swear us boat guys must be stupid or
> > something...maybe from huffing too much acetone...I guess we better seek
> > profesional help next time we need to fix something as elementary as
> > fibergalss.....
> >
> > --------
> > Leni
> > Avid C W/582
> > 1260 full lotus
> >
> > .......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Ram Engines Experience? |
I have experience with RAM engines and it has been nothing but good. I saw
the email from someone (I deleted it) that said he would not go to Ron again
because of bad quality control. At least he makes good on all the problems
that might come up. When you first start up and get swamped by work, like
we have put on Ron, you have to expand and it takes time to get all the
employees up to speed with quality. At least Ron owns up to his mistakes
and fixes them. I remember Lance at NSI saying every time I called with a
problem that it had never happened before, but he had a fix for it right
then (very strange). Of course you had to pay full price for the fix and
there were lots of others that had the same problem. Lance did not know
Subaru engines very well and his QC on the engine itself was terrible. Ron
KNOWS Subaru engines and is always striving to improve on them. He knows
what can be improved and what can't. He is also very willing to help out
with any problems you might have, whether you got your engine from him or
not.
Mike Logan
S5 formerly NSI SHO (boat anchor) now RAM (stump puller)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ram Engines Experience?
Does anyone have experience with the Ram Engines 140hp EA81 Subaru? I am
contemplating this engine for my Series 7 and would like to hear the good
and the bad about it as it would pertain to a series 5, 6 or 7. I have read
plenty about the NSI engines and people seem to either like them or hate
them but I understand this is a completely different setup from the NSI.
Ram actually reworks there engines completely and engineers them for
aircraft use (that is what is said on the website anyway). I would likely
be sticking a IFA prop on the end like the Airmasters or the IVO.
Any info would be great on this particular setup and actual performance
numbers would be even better.
Thanks guys (and gals if there are any),
Darin H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100807#100807
Message 8
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| Subject: | 912ULS heavy duty starter ? |
List,
I have a Kitfox 5 with an early 912ULS engine which does not have the
heavy duty starter.
Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the heavy duty starter.
I have only about 1/2 in. clearance between the back of my present
starter and one of the
engine mount tubes.
Allan Arthur
Kitfox 5, N40AA
Rotax 912ULS, Warpdrive 3 blade
Byron Airport, CA (C83) Hanger C8
Message 9
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| Subject: | Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
Just to stir up the corrosion pot again.
For what it's worth. I screwed some bare aluminum pieces (6061) to
the back fence about 6 years ago as a sanity check when building my
plane.
Through sun and dark, acid rain, sleet, hail, you name it. There's no
sign of any corrosion whatsoever ... I live in Chicago, so we do have
bad weather.
The only corrosion on my Kitfox has been a tiny bit on the landing gear
plates, and the engine mount where some powder coat got chipped off.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101021#101021
Message 10
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| Subject: | Turtledeck Flutter |
Anybody out there tried turbulating the airflow upstream of the turtledeck
to see if turtledeck flutter can be reduced?
Vortex generators, etc?
Deke, you mentioned to me once it was an experiment you had in mind
for future trial.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101027#101027
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
Jeff,
Through sun and dark, acid rain, sleet, hail, you name it.... I live in Chicago,
so we do have bad weather.
And then that stuff blows east across the big lake towards me and Lynn.
Now we know who to blame....
Steve :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101030#101030
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
I only accept responsibility for the hail ...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101032#101032
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Turtledeck Flutter |
I'm not sure who I'm talking to, but thanks for reminding me of it. Events
over the winter kept me from doing it, but I still intend to try it. Yes, I
was planning on VGs on top of the windshield somewhere, possibly about 6
inches back from where it makes the bend around the front carry through.
Hopefully I can get to it this summer.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Turtledeck Flutter
>
> Anybody out there tried turbulating the airflow upstream of the turtledeck
> to see if turtledeck flutter can be reduced?
>
> Vortex generators, etc?
>
> Deke, you mentioned to me once it was an experiment you had in mind
> for future trial.
Message 14
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| Subject: | 912ULS heavy duty starter ? |
The only thing that the heavy duty starter does is turn the engine faster.
If you have a good starting procedure its a waste of money. Clint Half
Moon Bay
From: alnanarthur <alnanarthur@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912ULS heavy duty starter ?
List,
I have a Kitfox 5 with an early 912ULS engine which does not have the heavy
duty starter.
Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the heavy duty starter.
I have only about 1/2 in. clearance between the back of my present starter
and one of the
engine mount tubes.
Allan Arthur
Kitfox 5, N40AA
Rotax 912ULS, Warpdrive 3 blade
Byron Airport, CA (C83) Hanger C8
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Turtledeck Flutter |
Hi Deke -
If you do test it out, post the results.
Regards,
Jeff hays
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101057#101057
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
What about that brown snow that fell on Northern Michigan in great abundance a
few weeks ago? I've heard the brown was contributed by Chicago.
do not archive
n85ae <n85ae@yahoo.com> wrote:
I only accept responsibility for the hail ...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101032#101032
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
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Message 17
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| Subject: | 912ULS heavy duty starter ? |
Allan,
I had to modify (Actually Skystar did it for me!) my motor mount in order to
use the heavy duty starter. I suspect that you will need the modification.
In the absence of other problems, I think you should consider Clint's
advice.
Randy Series 5/7 912S
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of alnanarthur
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912ULS heavy duty starter ?
List,
I have a Kitfox 5 with an early 912ULS engine which does not have the
heavy duty starter.
Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the heavy duty starter.
I have only about 1/2 in. clearance between the back of my present
starter and one of the
engine mount tubes.
Allan Arthur
Kitfox 5, N40AA
Rotax 912ULS, Warpdrive 3 blade
Byron Airport, CA (C83) Hanger C8
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Turtledeck Flutter |
Will do Jeff.
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Turtledeck Flutter
>
> Hi Deke -
>
> If you do test it out, post the results.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff hays
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101057#101057
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Another Kitfox flies! |
Congrats! Mine also flew for the first time a year ago...what a great
year it's been.
Lynn
do not archive
On Mar 16, 2007, at 3:17 AM, avtar412 wrote:
> <janderson412@hotmail.com>
>
> :D Kerry, congratulations to Johann and your self. Having done the
> same just 1 year back I know the wonderful feeling you must have,
> well done. John A. New Zealand
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100946#100946
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > |
The process you described for aircraft will produce a part with extremely
high strength.... But ( here we go again) BUT it permeable to water. Not
to the point where it will flow like a Tetley teabag but bad enough that
after filling with water it can delaminate if allowed to freeze. Boat
construction as you said uses a lot more resin. This also gives a good
strong product but is much heavier and of course is impermeable to water.
Boats will often have wrinkles and things in their design to make them more
rigid... Planes need the same thing but all the stiffeners need to be inside
out of the airflow.
Most people who use fibre glass know what is required to do either type of
work.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 8:04 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >
>
>
>
> Whew, touchy bunch and methinks my answer was misconstrued a
> bit here. :)
> No offense meant or taken, but my exact words were
> "...preferabley from somebody who knows the difference
> between..." because there is a frequently a difference. Hey,
> if you're comfortable working both, so much the better.
>
> For those who don't know what this means, airplane work uses
> a lot less resin, is more limited in types of resins to be
> used, typically uses more plies, of much finer weaves, with
> strict ply control. I wasn't even referring to vacuum
> bagging or autoclaves. Some marine/boat applications are
> identical, especially in the high performance sailboats. If
> you want to see a boat application with really high quality
> control, check out the mast or spar construction for some of
> the racers! The fabric and resin control in some of the
> offshore racers and racing motorcycle parts is fantastic!
>
> However, there are a lot of people who do NOT know the
> difference. They'll get whatever resin from Home Depot, have
> no idea about the cloth they buy or use some old automotive
> cloth that was kept behind an oil furnace (oil can keep resin
> from wetting the cloth), slop it on with a big old paintbrush
> of any type, then fill it smooth with nice heavy automotive
> Bondo, and paint to match. I can think of at least two
> homebuilts that had in-flight failures from this kind of
> construction and have talked to FAA inspectors who see a lot
> of really heavy composite homebuilts.
>
> I grew up on Atwood Lake in Ohio and worked QC for several
> years in a CT composites shop where our main products were
> rotorblades and other aircraft parts, so I have some idea of
> both ends of the spectrum. Sorry if I offended, but I loved
> the wit, too!
>
> Bob
>
> --------
> Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100953#100953
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack- class glass products - floats |
Definitely a market there... Not for my 'Fox ...MTOW 950 Lb.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D. Fisher
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:57 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: wingtip crack- class glass products - floats
>
>
>
>
> >>Question: What is exposed to sun, rain and gale winds 24/7,
> while being
> >>constantly flexed by corrosive salty water masses?
> >
> > Is it a bird? ... is it a plane? ... could it be a boat?
> <<
>
> You glass guys have most likely run into a set of these floats, very
> popular with the SuperCub guys.
> Well a little big for Kitfox but these are my neighbour's
> product and
> becoming very popular.
>
> http://www.clamarfloats.com
>
> It has been very popular so far and now a 3500 will be
> dressing up the
> Murphy Mooses this year. Look for him as Sun n Fun if you are going.
> After seeing the results,I would say that these have proven
> to be one of the
> toughest floats on the market now.
>
> I flew in there on Monday this week with 16 inches now - now
> it about 95%
> gone.
>
> And before you ask , he wil not be making anything under
> 2200s unless you
> are willing to pay 25k for striaght floats. Personally I
> think there is
> market for a 1400 to 1600 float for LSA stuff and there are
> some new ones to
> surface in the next year or so.
> That being said the Aerocet 1100s a decent float but could
> affoard to be a
> little bigger displacement on the heavier Kitfoxes.
>
> What would you pay for a set of floats ?
> 1400s straight or amphib ?
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:15 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >
>
>
> >> From: john perry [eskflyer@lvcisp.com]
> >> If you have a problem with someone who cannot glass that
> is one thing but
> >> to
> >> insinuate that someone who builds boats does not know what
> they are doing
> >> is not very nice.
> >
> > Question: What is exposed to sun, rain and gale winds 24/7,
> while being
> > constantly flexed by corrosive salty water masses?
> >
> > Is it a bird? ... is it a plane? ... could it be a boat?
> >
> >
> > :-) Michel
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
> >
> >
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://w
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
> >
> > </b></font></pre>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > |
John, I think he was saying that there was two ways of doing the glass work.
One
for boats and one for aircraft.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:15 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB >
>> From: john perry [eskflyer@lvcisp.com]
>> If you have a problem with someone who cannot glass that is one thing but
>> to
>> insinuate that someone who builds boats does not know what they are doing
>> is not very nice.
>
> Question: What is exposed to sun, rain and gale winds 24/7, while being
> constantly flexed by corrosive salty water masses?
>
> Is it a bird? ... is it a plane? ... could it be a boat?
>
>
> :-) Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
Please excuse the intrusion of a metal basher on the list:) but Hey! this is a
subject I know a bit about especially as my current project is practically all
aluminum:)
Basically, whether or not to do any corrosion proofing depends on where you live
and fly. For the most part unless you operate near salt water just keeping things
nice and clean will protect things very well. Just a small amount of salt
in the air can change that dramatically. When we built N24ZM we lived approx
15 miles from the ocean. and the airport it was based at was around 8 miles
inland. Most of our flying was inland as well and we never had a corrosion issue.
That changed when we moved up to MLB which is maybe 2 miles inland. We also
tended to fly low up and down the coast a lot. The result was that corrosion
would creep in anywhere the paint was scratched, nicked, or where the metal was
left unprotected. On the F1 everything gets etched, alodined, and primed with
a fluid resistant epoxy primer prior to paint.
Danny Melnik
F1 #25
Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
-----Original Message-----
From: n85ae@yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum
Just to stir up the corrosion pot again.
For what it's worth. I screwed some bare aluminum pieces (6061) to
the back fence about 6 years ago as a sanity check when building my
plane.
Through sun and dark, acid rain, sleet, hail, you name it. There's no
sign of any corrosion whatsoever ... I live in Chicago, so we do have
bad weather.
The only corrosion on my Kitfox has been a tiny bit on the landing gear
plates, and the engine mount where some powder coat got chipped off.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101021#101021
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.
Message 24
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|
Hey.....Anyone know of a kitfox for sale with 100hp Rotax engine, prefer
tri-gear series 5, however would consider taildrager, if loaded, ie
radios, lights, full panel, etc..must also meet sport license, ...as
1320 gw. speeds, and no cabin control of prop since new, plus well
built, a pure machine....have cash...thanks call 605 745 4449 or e mail
ann7ddt@aol.com<mailto:ann7ddt@aol.com> Dean Tinaglia
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: wingtip crack< FOR BOB > |
yeah john... and dont you try to confuse the issue with comments about "burning
one" you will start a whole new war....
I catagorically deny having any involvment in your above mentioned activities.
DO NOT ACHIVE
enough said
--------
Leni
Avid C W/582
1260 full lotus
.......DO NOT ARCHIVE.....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101120#101120
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| Subject: | Re: AD's question for airworthy cert |
First the AD Biweekly changes every two weeks. Yes ADs do not apply to our type
aircraft but the FAA wants that block filled in on the Form 8130-6.
will look like "2007-06"
S-SLA must be built from a kit, that the mfg has built and certified at least one
aircraft.
E-LSA is called the "wild west" it is what the "fat" ultralights that are not 51%
built are using.
S-SLA have 2" LIGHT SPORT placards.
E-LSA has 2" EXPERIMENTAL placards that is the easy way to tell diferance.
Go E-LSA if you did not build the and want to get a repairmans certificate
all you need to do is go to a short ( 2 or 3 weeks ) school and get a
E-LSA repairmans cert.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101128#101128
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|
| Subject: | Weight & Balance issues |
Is anyone out there with a tri-gear willing to share the recorded weights of their
three wheels? Two main gear weights and the nosegear weight. Your assistance
in sharing these weights would help me assess the viability of my current "rough"
setup. I just need a frame of reference for GENERAL weight adjustment.
Not planning on using the info for final weight and balance issues! Would certainly
appeciate anyone's help. I also think this would be very useful info for
anyone building a trigear. Does anyone have this kind of info on file? If so,
please indicate which model/series you own. It would be helpful to me because
I have major weight/balance issues caused by addition of Corvair engine/BRS chute/special
manifold mods/etc. John Sandt
Series 7 Sport / Corvair / BRS / Tri-gear / under construction
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: AD's question for airworthy cert |
Again, can't say it enought, What a great site this is and thanks to you guys for
your input. That is exactly what I needed, so I could fill in the block.
It was more my misunderstanding than anything else , as I just thought I didnt
need to enter that info, but the DAR explained to me what it was and along with
you guys giving me the site location, I was able to find it and go thru things.
Learning lots, mostly from my mistakes and you all bailing me out...Was
use to just flying the cherokee and Cessna till my friend got me into this kitfox
flying.. so here I am, probably will have a new quest for you soon. as
I need to write a flight plan. any ideas....later
--------
Pilotpat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101142#101142
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| Subject: | Re: AD's question for airworthy cert |
Re: ELSA repairman's certificate
All you need to get the repairman's certificate (which enables you to do the
annual inspection on your own ELSA plane) is to successfully complete the 16
hour course. The 2 or 3 week course enables you to inspect and work on your
SLSA plane. As I understand it, anyone, certificate or not, can work on any
experimental plane.
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: "dcsfoto" <david@kelm.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 6:56 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: AD's question for airworthy cert
>
> First the AD Biweekly changes every two weeks. Yes ADs do not apply to our
> type aircraft but the FAA wants that block filled in on the Form 8130-6.
> will look like "2007-06"
> S-SLA must be built from a kit, that the mfg has built and certified at
> least one aircraft.
> E-LSA is called the "wild west" it is what the "fat" ultralights that are
> not 51%
> built are using.
> S-SLA have 2" LIGHT SPORT placards.
> E-LSA has 2" EXPERIMENTAL placards that is the easy way to tell diferance.
> Go E-LSA if you did not build the and want to get a repairmans
> certificate
> all you need to do is go to a short ( 2 or 3 weeks ) school and get a
> E-LSA repairmans cert.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101128#101128
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
But more importantly Danny, did Skystar pay you guys for your comments
on the sales video :)
I still get pissed every time my Kitfox doesn't go up at 2000 fpm, and I couldn't
build my plane with just a hammer an pliers either :)
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101147#101147
Message 31
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| Subject: | Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
To cause corrosion you need an electrolyte... Salt water sounds pretty
good
to me. Fresh water is not an electrolyte and can even "wash" salt off a
plane.
I know one old bush pilot who used to regularly land his 4130 framed
Super
Cub in the brine. I asked him how come it didn't rust to bits. He told
me
after landing in salt water he would always fly through a few clouds
(VFR??)
on his way to home base. He said the fresh water of the cloud would
wash
the salt from his plane. Being a relatively new pilot I have decided
not to
plant my 'Fox into any salt water but it is stored in a garage about 30'
from the North Atlantic, a considerable source of salt.
Yes I love to fly low and slow at about 10' off the swells, keep an eye
out
for the big one! I always land in fresh water and not too often do I
fly in
rough weather so my plane is about as salt free as can be expected in
this
location.
I do have a bit of a question about the aluminium on the fence.... Is
the
steel part of the fence rusted where it came in contact with the
aluminium?
Also remember aluminium forms a thin protective layer of oxide over
itself
in short order. Unless there is an abundance of electrolyte (salt)
around
I'm not too surprised that it hasn't corroded to bits.
One of these days I'll have to try the funny round rubber things that
came
with the plane or maybe the boards. (skis)
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vft@aol.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum
Please excuse the intrusion of a metal basher on the list:) but Hey!
this is
a subject I know a bit about especially as my current project is
practically
all aluminum:)
Basically, whether or not to do any corrosion proofing depends on where
you
live and fly. For the most part unless you operate near salt water just
keeping things nice and clean will protect things very well. Just a
small
amount of salt in the air can change that dramatically. When we built
N24ZM
we lived approx 15 miles from the ocean. and the airport it was based at
was
around 8 miles inland. Most of our flying was inland as well and we
never
had a corrosion issue. That changed when we moved up to MLB which is
maybe 2
miles inland. We also tended to fly low up and down the coast a lot. The
result was that corrosion would creep in anywhere the paint was
scratched,
nicked, or where the metal was left unprotected. On the F1 everything
gets
etched, alodined, and primed with a fluid resistant epoxy primer prior
to
paint.
Danny Melnik
F1 #25
Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory
-----Original Message-----
From: n85ae@yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum
<javascript:parent.ComposeTo(> >
Just to stir up the corrosion pot again.
For what it's worth. I screwed some bare aluminum pieces (6061) to
the back fence about 6 years ago as a sanity check when building my
plane.
Through sun and dark, acid rain, sleet, hail, you name it. There's no
sign of any corrosion whatsoever ... I live in Chicago, so we do have
bad weather.
The only corrosion on my Kitfox has been a tiny bit on the landing gear
plates, and the engine mount where some powder coat got chipped off.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101021#101021>
php?p=101021#101021
_____
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
Steve,
When I attempt to read your emails, a lot of the characters are gibberish.
Other members have also commented on it. At first I was using Eudora as my
email client and I blamed that, but now I am using Outlook and still reading
your emails is a strain. They are never boring and I do enjoy reading them.
Still may I suggest that you set your software to send "Plain Text" when
posting List email. I believe that would fix the problem and remove an
annoyance to List readers. Since you read your postings with the same
software you use to send, they display normally and you are totally unaware
of the problem for most, or all of the rest of us.
Thanks,
Jim Crowder
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of 84KF
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum
Jeff,
Through sun and dark, acid rain, sleet, hail, you name it.... I live in
Chicago, so we do have bad weather.
And then that stuff blows east across the big lake towards me and Lynn.
Now we know who to blame....
Steve :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101030#101030
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
Hmmm hammer and pliers, Eh? If the pliers were Vise Grips you could
probably build a Harley...but you would need a big hammer :-) Sorry Mssrs.
Davidson.
See it
Do not archive it!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:39 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum
>
>
>
> But more importantly Danny, did Skystar pay you guys for your comments
> on the sales video :)
>
> I still get pissed every time my Kitfox doesn't go up at 2000
> fpm, and I couldn't build my plane with just a hammer an
> pliers either :)
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101147#101147
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protecting Aluminum |
Jim,
Sorry... I do realize that my post may show up somewhat "corrupted" when read through misc. e-mail clients. All I can say is when viewed using the actual Kitfox List web site http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=83b6acbe5602af72d6c023eab4688518
all will be right and legible.
I sometimes compose using Microsoft works, then cut and paste to the List Message
Body window, and this might be a cause of corrupted e-mail. It does not affect
the List site viewing.
I post right to the site, and forget that others receive through e-mail. While
I regret the e-mail corruption, it is not my intention to send e-mail to every
viewerreader. IMHO, the List site is the only way to go.
Thanks for the input.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101168#101168
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| Subject: | Re: AD's question for airworthy cert |
The following is from ..., well you should know by know...
44794 Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2004 / Rules and
Regulations
The FAA believes
that the maximum take-off weight is an
appropriate limiting parameter for lightsport
aircraft, because it is an objective
measure that can easily be determined
when the aircraft configuration is
specified.
----------------
44808 Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2004 / Rules and
Regulations
Operating limitations
specified in 91.319 for experimental
light-sport aircraft certificated under
21.191(i)(3) are more restrictive than
the operating limitations issued to
special light-sport aircraft.
-----------------
44808 Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2004 / Rules and
Regulations
In experimental certificate, the word
experimental indicates that there is
no known standard for the design or
production of the aircraft. Therefore, the
FAA believes that experimental
certificates are appropriate for kit-built
aircraft.
44808 Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2004 / Rules and
Regulations
Proposed paragraph (i)(2) addressed
operating a light-sport aircraft that was
assembled from an eligible kit. Proposed
21.0193(e)(5) stated that the assembler
of an aircraft, seeking certification under
paragraph (i)(2), had to provide the
instructions used to assemble the
aircraft. There was no requirement in
21.191(i)(2) that a person had to
assemble the aircraft in accordance with
the manufacturers assembly
instructions. In the final rule, therefore,
21.191(i)(2) now includes the
requirement that the aircraft kit be
assembled in accordance with the
manufacturers assembly instructions
that meet an applicable consensus
standard.
A commenter stated that experimental
certificates should not be issued for
light-sport aircraft that are not intended
for experimental use but are intended to
be mass-produced on production line.
The commenter said that the FAA
should create another status for aircraft
whose certification falls between
current type-certificated aircraft and
true experimental aircraft. The FAA
believes that the special light-sport
aircraft certificate serves this purpose.
In experimental certificate, the word
experimental indicates that there is
no known standard for the design or
production of the aircraft. Therefore, the
FAA believes that experimental
certificates are appropriate for kit-built
aircraft.
The same commenter noted that
proposed 21.191(i) would allow
certification of aircraft carrying persons
for compensation or hire that have never
been shown to meet any design or
production airworthiness standard. The
FAA notes that these aircraft will not be
permitted to be used for the full range
of compensation or hire operations
normally carried out by aircraft with
standard airworthiness certificates.
Operating limitations for these aircraft
will restrict their use, as specified in
91.319. The commenter also stated
that there is no rigid conformity
requirement for kit-built aircraft
certificated under this section. The FAA
disagrees and notes that an applicant
seeking to certificate a kit-built aircraft
under 21.191(i)(2) must also comply
with 21.193(e) and provide a statement
of compliance issued by the aircrafts
manufacturer that contains the
information generally required by
21.190(c). The commenter was also
concerned that an operator of a special
light-sport aircraft could decide to
obtain an experimental light sport
certificate when that operator no longer
intends to comply with the more
stringent operating limitations of the
special light-sport aircraft. The
commenter asserts that the operator
could still engage in many of the
operations permitted for special lightsport
aircraft without meeting those
more stringent limitations. The FAA
disagrees. Operating limitations
specified in 91.319 for experimental
light-sport aircraft certificated under
21.191(i)(3) are more restrictive than
the operating limitations issued
steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101172#101172
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| Subject: | Off topic Garbled e-mail from 84KF (me) |
I'm sorry that some e-mail clients do not reproduce some postings in the original
format as written. If there is a problem with reading postings using e-mail
as an elected source, (signed up for it..) then go right to the source...
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=83b6acbe5602af72d6c023eab4688518
The ability to accent and highlight statements is provided here, but when these
benefits are used, it does mess up e-mails.
I will (again) try to remember that not all use the 'site', but I see using the
'site' as the best source..., as originally intended..
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101173#101173
Message 37
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| Subject: | Off topic Garbled e-mail from 84KF (me) |
Steve,
Thanks for thinking of us email reading members. The Kitfox List was an
email list years before it was moved to Matronics. I even hosted the list
on the now extinct Colorado Super Net for quite a while. I think you would
be very surprised to learn how many of us read postings via email. It would
be interesting to know.
There are reasons for this. The Kitfox list is only a part of my life. I
read email from many sources. I even belong to another flying list. I also
actively receive email from five addresses currently. My email client is
programmed to check each of these every ten minutes when I am at my
computer. I do a lot of other work at my computer and often welcome a break
when email arrives. I then know very quickly when an email is posted
without going to each address. I also have a very effective spam checker
that automatically deletes most of the spam I receive even if it comes from
a mailing list as often happens. The posting I am replying to came through
with no garbage and I for one do appreciate that.
I will try to get along with whatever comes my way, but I do appreciate it
when it is clean. As a further thought, the three clients I have used are
very mainstream and are used on most PCs except for those who use the site
provided by their service provider such as AOL. I have no idea if they see
the garbage. I suspect the garbage we are speaking of appears on ALL email
clients. If not, I stand to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable. I
can always go to the Matronics site if I think it is worth the extra
trouble. Otherwise I guess that is what the delete key is for. I intend to
not beat this horse further and I want to remain a friend.
Jim Crowder
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of 84KF
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 11:12 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Off topic Garbled e-mail from 84KF (me)
I'm sorry that some e-mail clients do not reproduce some postings in the
original format as written. If there is a problem with reading postings
using e-mail as an elected source, (signed up for it..) then go right to the
source...
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=83b6acbe5602af72d6c023eab4
688518
The ability to accent and highlight statements is provided here, but when
these benefits are used, it does mess up e-mails.
I will (again) try to remember that not all use the 'site', but I see using
the 'site' as the best source..., as originally intended..
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101173#101173
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