Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:38 AM - plane sale (Charlie)
2. 03:11 AM - Bleeding brakes- Picture of oil and oiler pump (D. Fisher)
3. 03:25 AM - Re: plane sale (Bob)
4. 03:27 AM - Re: Bleeding brakes- Picture of oil and oiler pump (QSS)
5. 05:36 AM - SELLING PLANE (Charlie)
6. 06:38 AM - Re: Bleeding brakes- Picture of oil and oiler pump OT (Noel Loveys)
7. 07:21 AM - flase ribs (jerry evans)
8. 08:05 AM - Re: flase ribs (n85ae)
9. 08:09 AM - Re: flase ribs (Ron Liebmann)
10. 08:10 AM - Re: flase ribs (kurt schrader)
11. 08:36 AM - Re: Wheel dollies (Rex Hefferan)
12. 09:06 AM - Re: Move on (avidflyer)
13. 09:08 AM - Re: Wheel dollies (84KF)
14. 09:28 AM - Re: Droop tips -Crusie speeds mods. (Lowell Fitt)
15. 09:43 AM - Re: Move on (84KF)
16. 11:21 AM - Re: flase ribs (Michel Verheughe)
17. 11:53 AM - Re: flase ribs (fox5flyer)
18. 12:15 PM - Re: Source code in posts - Off topic (n85ae)
19. 12:41 PM - Re: flase ribs (Michel Verheughe)
20. 01:12 PM - Mielage: Fuel consumption based on gallons per hour (L Klingmuller)
21. 02:30 PM - Re: flase ribs (Noel Loveys)
22. 02:54 PM - Re: Droop tips -Crusie speeds mods. (kitfoxmike)
23. 04:28 PM - Re: Bing Carb Flooding (W & R Beck)
24. 05:12 PM - Re: Bing Carb Flooding (Don Smythe)
25. 05:14 PM - Re: Bing Carb Flooding (fox5flyer)
26. 06:30 PM - false ribs (Clem Nichols)
27. 06:37 PM - Please read this sort of OT (avidflyer)
28. 06:51 PM - Re: flase ribs (Clem Nichols)
29. 06:57 PM - Re GSC prop on ebay (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
30. 07:37 PM - Rotax For Sale (Jerry)
31. 07:47 PM - Re: Please read this sort of OT (84KF)
32. 09:51 PM - Re: SELLING PLANE (ron schick)
Message 1
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The time to hang up the head set has finally arrived for me
So due to the liability exposure I'm going to scrap my non flying 10 year
old 600 hour
mod 4 with 582 engine
If any one wants it for parts its free if you pick it up , I cannot deliver
it
There are no log books or parts lists or registration
Its as is where is
Location is Kingston , NY
cfbflyer@localnet.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Bleeding brakes- Picture of oil and oiler pump |
Here you go http://cfisher.com/aeroshell.html
Took a pic of oil bottle I use and Mil Spec oil to cut the confusion.
If you need to know Matco instructions on how to bleed - look here
http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/PRESS_BLEED.jpg
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Fisher" <d@cfisher.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>
> Lowell,
> Exactly .............. pump the fluid from the bleeeder with a oil can.
> You will oush the air up to the master.
> If you have loops in the line anywhere air will be pushed UP .
>
> Doing it the way FLoyd mentioned might work but it would take alot more
> line, alot more time and might not get air trapped in a loop in the line.
>
> Works for me fine with oil can , fast and efficeint and simple with no
> need to run lines from brakes to Masters. I could see this getting messy
>
> Make sure you use Mil spec fliud 5606 i think is the number.
>
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 5:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>
>
>>
>> Dave, I don't understand the logic here. If the bleeders are on the
>> bottom, attach the tube, crack the bleeder then pump. All the air will
>> be expelled. Explain where the residual air will be found.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "D. Fisher" <d@cfisher.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 11:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>>
>>
>> Floyd, That might work on a application with the bleeders pointed up but
>> with the bleeder at the bottom of caliper I think you woudl find it hard
>> to get all the air out.
>>
>> Air in system equals a spongy pedal.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Floyd Johnson
>> To: Kitfox-List
>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 10:57 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>>
>>
>>
>> A trick I learned, while I was on the Maintinance Committee for my
>> Flying club, was to run a piece of clear plastic oxygen hose from the
>> bleeder at the brake, and back to the filler on the resiuvoir (sp). Just
>> pump the brake pedal and the air will exit the end of the hose, while the
>> fluid returns to the tank. Simple and works like a charm. Oh, and don't
>> use the hose for your oxygen after bleeding your brakes. He! He!.
>>
>>
>> Floyd Johnson
>> kitfox69@earthlink.net
>> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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That's quite an offer, but it may be enlightening to talk to the folks at EAA HQ
before letting the plane be broken.
Many liability suits against homebuilders of the lighter lower-cost airplanes like
ours have largely fizzled because our pockets are too shallow. Of course,
your finances may vary and you can get sued by somebody down the road for anything.
The fact is that the potential liability for selling one of your Kitfox
instruments that a jury is later wrongly persuaded to blame for an accident
(example: the Governor Carnahan accident) is pretty much the same as if your
intact airplane were flown into a tree.
One of the things that benefits us is that courts consider "assumed risk" of people
getting into the airplane. If somebody climbs into a Lancair IV-P or an
RV-7/-9, they might persuade a court that they assumed it was as safe as an American
Eagle turboprop. If somebody got into a fabric covered homebuilt taildragger
that weighs less than a Honda Goldwing, especially out of a dirt field
where Kitfoxes frequent, no jury in the land will buy that argument.
If my last name was Forbes, I'd make sure the airplane was burned 100% to ashes
or donate it to a museum. However, homebuilders have generally been found to
be so small financially that the attorneys are going straight after the deeper
pocket insurance companies of component suppliers like Rotax or the airport,
especially if the plane was built to plans.
Not trying to start a big liability thread, or one about lawyers, or what people
think of lawsuits, as those have been hashed and re-hashed. Just suggesting
a phone call. Sometimes it's good to be the little fish.
Bob
do not archive
--------
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101572#101572
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Bleeding brakes- Picture of oil and oiler pump |
Thanks Dave.
Regards
Graeme
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Fisher" <d@cfisher.com>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:10 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes- Picture of oil and oiler pump
>
> Here you go http://cfisher.com/aeroshell.html
>
> Took a pic of oil bottle I use and Mil Spec oil to cut the confusion.
>
> If you need to know Matco instructions on how to bleed - look here
> http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/PRESS_BLEED.jpg
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Fisher" <d@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>
>
>>
>> Lowell,
>> Exactly .............. pump the fluid from the bleeeder with a oil can.
>> You will oush the air up to the master.
>> If you have loops in the line anywhere air will be pushed UP .
>>
>> Doing it the way FLoyd mentioned might work but it would take alot more
>> line, alot more time and might not get air trapped in a loop in the line.
>>
>> Works for me fine with oil can , fast and efficeint and simple with no
>> need to run lines from brakes to Masters. I could see this getting messy
>>
>> Make sure you use Mil spec fliud 5606 i think is the number.
>>
>> Dave
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 5:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dave, I don't understand the logic here. If the bleeders are on the
>>> bottom, attach the tube, crack the bleeder then pump. All the air will
>>> be expelled. Explain where the residual air will be found.
>>>
>>> Lowell
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "D. Fisher" <d@cfisher.com>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 11:31 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>>>
>>>
>>> Floyd, That might work on a application with the bleeders pointed up
>>> but with the bleeder at the bottom of caliper I think you woudl find it
>>> hard to get all the air out.
>>>
>>> Air in system equals a spongy pedal.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Floyd Johnson
>>> To: Kitfox-List
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 10:57 AM
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A trick I learned, while I was on the Maintinance Committee for my
>>> Flying club, was to run a piece of clear plastic oxygen hose from the
>>> bleeder at the brake, and back to the filler on the resiuvoir (sp). Just
>>> pump the brake pedal and the air will exit the end of the hose, while
>>> the fluid returns to the tank. Simple and works like a charm. Oh, and
>>> don't use the hose for your oxygen after bleeding your brakes. He! He!.
>>>
>>>
>>> Floyd Johnson
>>> kitfox69@earthlink.net
>>> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 18/03/2007 3:34 PM
>
>
Message 5
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The time to hang up the head set has finally arrived for me
So due to the liability exposure I'm going to scrap my non flying 10 year
old 600 hour
mod 4 with 582 engine
If any one wants it for parts its free if you pick it up , I cannot deliver
it
There are no log books or parts lists or registration
Its as is where is
Location is Kingston , NY
cfbflyer@localnet.com
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Bleeding brakes- Picture of oil and oiler pump OT |
Your can is bigger than mine!!! ;-(
Noel
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D. Fisher
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:41 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes- Picture of oil and oiler pump
>
>
>
> Here you go http://cfisher.com/aeroshell.html
>
> Took a pic of oil bottle I use and Mil Spec oil to cut the confusion.
>
> If you need to know Matco instructions on how to bleed - look here
> http://matco.elixirlabs.com/users/matco/images/PRESS_BLEED.jpg
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Fisher" <d@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
>
>
> >
> > Lowell,
> > Exactly .............. pump the fluid from the bleeeder
> with a oil can.
> > You will oush the air up to the master.
> > If you have loops in the line anywhere air will be pushed UP .
> >
> > Doing it the way FLoyd mentioned might work but it would
> take alot more
> > line, alot more time and might not get air trapped in a
> loop in the line.
> >
> > Works for me fine with oil can , fast and efficeint and
> simple with no
> > need to run lines from brakes to Masters. I could see this
> getting messy
> >
> > Make sure you use Mil spec fliud 5606 i think is the number.
> >
> > Dave
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 5:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
> >
> >
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> >>
> >> Dave, I don't understand the logic here. If the bleeders
> are on the
> >> bottom, attach the tube, crack the bleeder then pump. All
> the air will
> >> be expelled. Explain where the residual air will be found.
> >>
> >> Lowell
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "D. Fisher" <d@cfisher.com>
> >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 11:31 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
> >>
> >>
> >> Floyd, That might work on a application with the bleeders
> pointed up but
> >> with the bleeder at the bottom of caliper I think you
> woudl find it hard
> >> to get all the air out.
> >>
> >> Air in system equals a spongy pedal.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Floyd Johnson
> >> To: Kitfox-List
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 10:57 AM
> >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Bleeding brakes
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> A trick I learned, while I was on the Maintinance
> Committee for my
> >> Flying club, was to run a piece of clear plastic oxygen
> hose from the
> >> bleeder at the brake, and back to the filler on the
> resiuvoir (sp). Just
> >> pump the brake pedal and the air will exit the end of the
> hose, while the
> >> fluid returns to the tank. Simple and works like a charm.
> Oh, and don't
> >> use the hose for your oxygen after bleeding your brakes. He! He!.
> >>
> >>
> >> Floyd Johnson
> >> kitfox69@earthlink.net
> >> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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If I put false ribs in the stabs to increase lift, do I put them in the elevator
and rudder or can I not put them in the rudder and elevator and just have them
in the stabs? Because I have the rudder already covered and not the stabs.
Jerry Evans
kitfox 555
Message 8
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[quote="kitfox555(at)sbcglobal.ne"]If I put false ribs in the stabs to increase
lift, do I put them in the elevator and rudder or can I not put them in the rudder
and elevator and just have them in the stabs? Because I have the rudder
already covered and not the stabs.
Jerry Evans
kitfox 555
> [b]
The purpose of the false ribs is primarily to streamline the horiz/vert stab. The
lift would be unchanged because the airfoiling is symmetric. The
rudder and elevator are still essentially flat (i.e. unchanged).
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101611#101611
Message 9
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Hi Jerry,
The false ribs are not there to provide any lift. If they are of a
symetrical design, they will provide stability.
I have them in my fin but not the rudder but they are in my stab &
elevator. If you put them in the fin & stab only, I think that that
set-up would work fine.
Take Care, Ron N55KF
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: flase ribs
If I put false ribs in the stabs to increase lift, do I put them in
the elevator and rudder or can I not put them in the rudder and elevator
and just have them in the stabs? Because I have the rudder already
covered and not the stabs.
Jerry Evans
kitfox 555
Message 10
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|
I'll give a "stab" at this Jerry. :-)
If the front part, the stab, is a slab, it will have a
bit more drag and leave a larger boundry layer behind
it which will slightly reduce the control surface
effectiveness. The control surface will have to move
a bit more to move out of the boundry layer and move
the slipstream. But more importantly, the stab is
more effective and "hunts" less if it is not a slab.
ie, ribs in the stab give more stability.
If the control surface has ribs, it will fill in the
boundry layer better behind the stab and be more
effective and less draggy whether it is behind a slab
or a ribbed stab. So control surface ribs give more
elevator and rudder effectiveness.
Then there is appearance to consider. Your choice
there.
Either surface ribbed will be an improvement. Both
ribbed is better. Ribs reduce drag just a little and
increase the surfaces effectiveness at its job.
Hope that helps as a first opinion.
Kurt S. S-5
Retired at last, but somehow more busy.
--- jerry evans <kitfox555@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> If I put false ribs in the stabs to increase lift,
> do I put them in the elevator and rudder or can I
> not put them in the rudder and elevator and just
> have them in the stabs? Because I have the rudder
> already covered and not the stabs.
>
> Jerry Evans
> kitfox 555
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel dollies |
I can't answer your question. but might I suggest you could make a simple cradle
bent from heavy gage sheet metal that could span the gap? If it turns out the
minimum tire size is still too large work for your Kitfox tires this idea could
work as an adapter. It might be tricky getting them under the tires.
I have a couple of those basic car dollies that you have to jack a car up to place
under the tire. They work well enough, but it's almost a 2 person job to
get a kitfox on them. The 1st one is easy, but the plane wants to roll away when
I jack up the other side. :)
Rex
Colorado
--------
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101620#101620
Message 12
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[/quote]
I humbly ask that everyone please reconsider this redistribution of service. The
problem is not the service (email/web/etc). We need to focus on being kind
and courteous to everyone and realize that we all have different backgrounds
and interests. Everyone is welcome here, regardless of their interest or experience.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft[/quote]
Not quite a true statement based on the banning of two members I can think of off
the top of my head.
Please reply to my off list email I sent directly to you yesterday.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101625#101625
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel dollies |
Thanks Rex,
"I have a couple of those basic car dollies that you have to jack a car up to
place under the tire."
Yes, exactly. and not what I want to have to do. The 'gap filler' you speak of
is probably the solution and I can visualize what you describe. perhaps even
just a front or rear filler alone might work.
...off to the drawing board, and the scrap pile.
Thanks
steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101626#101626
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Droop tips -Crusie speeds mods. |
Dave,
I have an opinion here, that was brought into question by a recent
conversation. It has been my belief that one of the major drag contributors
to the Model IV and earlier airplanes is using the flaperons for trim.
Flaps are by design drag inducers and if you have to pull a bit of flaps to
drop the nose a bit in cruise you are adding at least some drag. I have the
elevator trim in my IV and intend to fly today. I will try it both ways.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "D. Fisher" <d@cfisher.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:31 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Droop tips -Crusie speeds mods.
Well seeing that everyone is quick to post facts today , I have been asking
if anyone has actually changed from a Droop style tip to a newer hoerner
style tip with no success. Can I conclude that this has just been for
aesthetic only.?
I have mixed feelings at they both have there pros and cons.
Surely with all the years of expertise here we can come to a conclusion.
If is possible for a 582 Kitfox to cruise at 100 mph ? I am at 102 to 104
now WOT at low altitude (1500 asl) and 88 to 90 at cruise setting on
wheels.
Not sure what more can be done to get another 10% . Original Kitfox info I
think say cruise at 7500 asl is 105 mph. 582 just seems to hit a brick
wall and/or run out of torque.
Would be productive for all Kitfox Owners to be able to pick up a few extra
mph ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: D. Fisher
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Droop tips -- opinions
So what is concensous on Droops tips,?
Has anyone actaully chnaged tips and have and results to share ?
----- Original Message -----
From: D. Fisher
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 9:29 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Droop tips
I am looking for anyone that has changed from Droop tips to the more
current hoerner style tip on a IV.
What was gained or lost if anything ?
I have mixed thoughts on Droop tips. Personally would a winglet tip
( invested tip) now give better STOL ?
Open for comments.
Dave
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 15
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"Everyone is welcome here, regardless of their interest or
experience."
No...they are not.
"I have invested a large amount of time and money"
Thank you for the time, ..some of the $ was mine.
I hope the International Kitfox community is not watching how a few hot heads egotists
attempt to dictate what is proper for the majority.
But then, it is the American way ...right?
steve
This site does has it's finer points, but...
For a breath of fresh air check out..... http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101634#101634
Message 16
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On Mar 19, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
> The false ribs are not there to provide any lift.
Although I came to flying only four years ago and with my meagre 250
hours, I consider myself still as a rookie, I will humbly object to the
above statement.
A flight simulator I use allows me to select between several airfoils
when constructing an aircraft. The simulator may not be reliable but
the data coming from NACA surely is.
A symmetrical NACA airfoil has a much higher coefficient of lift and
drag than a flat plate. What is special with a symmetrical airfoil is
that both lift and drag are symmetrical around 0 degrees of angle of
incidence; while an asymmetrical airfoil may have a positive lift down
to minus four degrees.
When the rudder is centred, false ribs won't do much of a difference.
But when it is off-centred, it works like an asymmetrical airfoil (the
MAC is no longer in the longitudinal section) and creates more lift
(authority to sway) but also more drag (authority to return to the
central position).
For the elevator and the horizontal stabiliser, it is slightly
different. As I have learnt from this honourable list, the angle of
incidence of horizontal stabiliser differs from the wing's angle of
incidence by what is called, the decalage. If you are flying level at
cruise speed, the angle of incidence of the wings' root may be e.g. 6
degrees and the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabiliser, 3
degrees. It may vary but the point is; the stabiliser must have a
lesser angle than the wing to make sure it doesn't stall first, which
could be catastrophic. Maybe the angle may be as low as 0 degrees, in
which case, no lift nor induced drag is created. But if there is a
slight angle - and there will certainly be at low speed - the use of
false ribs should add some lift to the horizontal stabiliser.
Of course, I would welcome any objection to my above statement. It is
mostly gathered from what I read here and I am avid to learn even more.
My only request would then be: Please, don't spilt this list because of
a flame! Thank you.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 17
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Good post Michel. You've gained a lot of aviation knowledge in a very short
time.
Thanks,
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flase ribs
>
> On Mar 19, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
> > The false ribs are not there to provide any lift.
>
> Although I came to flying only four years ago and with my meagre 250
> hours, I consider myself still as a rookie, I will humbly object to the
> above statement.
> A flight simulator I use allows me to select between several airfoils
> when constructing an aircraft. The simulator may not be reliable but
> the data coming from NACA surely is.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Source code in posts - Off topic |
Oh, this is too good to pass up. I have to post a reply to this!
I once flamed Deke online, emailed everybody on the list, started an
enormous flame war, started a new list and recruited a ton of list
members to the new group. Left, resigned never to come back.
Why did I come back ..?
Since then I have got married, had kids, now I deal with two kids both
less than four years old, and a wife who's often grumpy from keeping
the kids in line. The most sleep I've had in the past almost 4 years is
about almost 6 hours. List stuff, is simply not a big deal in my life.
Also, I decided I didn't really hate "(names witheld)" so much after all.
This list is a refreshing breath of fresh air in my day! :)
The worst of the worst of the worst online, can't you just simply click
delete? (here, I'll post a new quote - "Morons can't click delete")
Even if you start a new, and successfull list elsewhere, it is merely a
matter of time, until you - become the list oldtimer over there, with
your own grumpy, and elitist attitude who the newbies on the list
are flaming as a no-it-all. :)
I know, I've done that myself. That's why I'm staying here.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101676#101676
Message 19
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On Mar 19, 2007, at 8:53 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> Good post Michel. You've gained a lot of aviation knowledge in a very
> short time.
Thank you Deke but, reading again my post, I realise that I wrote sway
when I meant yaw.
Roll, pitch and yaw are the three rotations while heave, sway and surge
are the three movement, isn't it?
Michel
do not archive
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| Subject: | Mielage: Fuel consumption based on gallons per hour |
The subject of fuel consumtion has so many variables: speed, engine, altitude,
airplane, weight, inclusion/exclusions, averages, etc, etc
Now here is a chanllange for those who have been flying some longer x-country flights
and have computed AVERAGE trip milages.
What is your average MILAGE e. g. st miles/gal or n miles/gal??
Here some recent data for an RV-6A based on total gl used for the total GPS milage
flown from Denver / Tucson / southern Calf/ Albuquerque/Denver (includes
one hour of sight seeing and all taxiing etc)
Total GPS milage: 2000 nml
Total fuel: 102 gl
Average milage: 22.5 gl/st ml
Message 21
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Michel
Certainly no objection just a couple of observations.
You said @ 0 deg there would be no lift nor induced drag I'm not too sure
how you define induced drag. One of the problems with a mass moving through
a fluid ( air ) is there is always drag induced by the movement.
The other observation I would like to make is that many planes e.g. the
CH701 actually have "upside down" airfoils on the tail to actually push the
tail down and apply load to the wings. I'm interested in if you have tried
this design on your simulator.
BTW what sim are you using where you can use NACA foils???
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Michel Verheughe
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:49 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flase ribs
>
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
> > The false ribs are not there to provide any lift.
>
> Although I came to flying only four years ago and with my meagre 250
> hours, I consider myself still as a rookie, I will humbly
> object to the
> above statement.
> A flight simulator I use allows me to select between several airfoils
> when constructing an aircraft. The simulator may not be reliable but
> the data coming from NACA surely is.
> A symmetrical NACA airfoil has a much higher coefficient of lift and
> drag than a flat plate. What is special with a symmetrical airfoil is
> that both lift and drag are symmetrical around 0 degrees of angle of
> incidence; while an asymmetrical airfoil may have a positive
> lift down
> to minus four degrees.
>
> When the rudder is centred, false ribs won't do much of a difference.
> But when it is off-centred, it works like an asymmetrical
> airfoil (the
> MAC is no longer in the longitudinal section) and creates more lift
> (authority to sway) but also more drag (authority to return to the
> central position).
>
> For the elevator and the horizontal stabiliser, it is slightly
> different. As I have learnt from this honourable list, the angle of
> incidence of horizontal stabiliser differs from the wing's angle of
> incidence by what is called, the decalage. If you are flying level at
> cruise speed, the angle of incidence of the wings' root may be e.g. 6
> degrees and the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabiliser, 3
> degrees. It may vary but the point is; the stabiliser must have a
> lesser angle than the wing to make sure it doesn't stall first, which
> could be catastrophic. Maybe the angle may be as low as 0 degrees, in
> which case, no lift nor induced drag is created. But if there is a
> slight angle - and there will certainly be at low speed - the use of
> false ribs should add some lift to the horizontal stabiliser.
>
> Of course, I would welcome any objection to my above statement. It is
> mostly gathered from what I read here and I am avid to learn
> even more.
> My only request would then be: Please, don't spilt this list
> because of
> a flame! Thank you.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Droop tips -Crusie speeds mods. |
couple things here: first speeds of 100 mph, is that with a gps or indicated?
second, flaps, I don't use them, I think there a waist. But, I would be interested
in the best possision for the flaps for the least drag. I've also tried to
get the top speed and had the flaps adjusted within two inches from where I
think is neutral and had no effect on speed.
Just a side note on landing without flaps, today I landed with calm winds and from
touch down to stop was right around 200ft. I have this way of doing it that
I slow to 50 over the numbers and just as I flair I put in a little throttle
and the nose flairs up and then I hold that and pull the throttle off slowly
and let the airplane land, by that time the fox is moving very slow and after
touch I hit the brakes lightly and stop it, very short. forget the flaps.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101716#101716
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Bing Carb Flooding |
Folks:
I will be interested to hear what others say about this as I have had the
same intermittent problem with my 350 hour greyhead, and on the rear carb
only. Wierd. LEAF advised me to check the fuel levels -1/2"- in the bowls,
and the plunger that the floats work against to shut off fuel; its viton tip
should be clear of debris and not worn. My was clean and not worn and float
levels are good, but I found the rear float in the rear carb binding in the
down position. If you pushed it down with fuel in the bowl it would not
float back up. So I changed the rear float in each carb for the new style
that has beveled corners. Now there is no possibility that either float will
bind in either carb. But I still don't know if that was the problem. I
suspect not. The annual will be finished on the plane soon and we'll have to
see how it goes then.
Robert
> Hi ! Guys,
> I have a Bluehead 582 about 150 hours old so I would not
> expect worn parts and they certainly look ok. However every now and then
> the back carby floods. When it does I get rough running down low. If the
> motor is not running then I get some dribbling out of those two little
> holes
> in the vent loop. It only does it several weeks apart. If I pull the bowl
> I
> can't find anything either in the bowl or needle and seat. It's a worry
> because it drips on the muffler. In flight I just give it full throttle
> and
> back off again and it's fine. On the ground if I pull the bowl off I find
> nothing and all is fine when I put it back. Being intermittent like that
> it
> makes it very hard to find. It's always only the back bowl and
> theoretically
> nothing can get to the needle and seat anyway. I have a filter and a
> gascolator. Any common problems like this or any ideas would be
> appreciated. Thanks in advance, Rex.
> rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Bing Carb Flooding |
Rex,
I've had a similar problem several times. I've never been able to quite
figure out the exact cause but, it has to do with very very carefully
seating the bowls. I now use one finger on the bottom of the bowl and
look/feel for a perfect fit. My old problems went away. Also, another
point is that I switched to new carb floats that have a bevel on the edges.
They float better without causing any obstructions. Not sure if this might
be your problem but sounds familiar.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:07 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Bing Carb Flooding
>
> Hi ! Guys,
> I have a Bluehead 582 about 150 hours old so I would not
> expect worn parts and they certainly look ok. However every now and then
> the back carby floods. When it does I get rough running down low. If the
> motor is not running then I get some dribbling out of those two little
> holes
> in the vent loop. It only does it several weeks apart. If I pull the bowl
> I
> can't find anything either in the bowl or needle and seat. It's a worry
> because it drips on the muffler. In flight I just give it full throttle
> and
> back off again and it's fine. On the ground if I pull the bowl off I find
> nothing and all is fine when I put it back. Being intermittent like that
> it
> makes it very hard to find. It's always only the back bowl and
> theoretically
> nothing can get to the needle and seat anyway. I have a filter and a
> gascolator. Any common problems like this or any ideas would be
> appreciated. Thanks in advance, Rex.
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Bing Carb Flooding |
I don't know if this has anything to do with the problem or the fix, but
back when I had my Model II with gray head 582 I had a big problem (from the
git-go) with the engine running very rough at idle, but as the rpms went up
the engine would smooth out, but not until it got over 3k. At 2k idle it
would shake so badly that the floats would overfill the bowls and fuel would
pour out the vents. Obviously, this overfilling of the bowls just
exacerbated the problem so it was difficult to see what the actual problem
was, especially since the float levels were set to factory settings. I
fooled around with it for awhile changing needles, balance, etc., and while
a friend was over we were discussing what to do because everything was brand
new and we felt that there was probably nothing actually wrong with the
carbs. As we talked about it one of us said something about the idle jets
maybe being too rich as the carbs may have been assembled for a different
altitude. I thought it was worth a try so I ordered from Spruce a set of
idle jets the next size leaner and voila! Smoothed right out! End of
problem. Of course, I had to make the usual twice a year change to the
mains to compensate for the wild temp swings here in Michigan, but actually
never had any fuel related problems again for 400 hours.
Hope this might help a little bit.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "W & R Beck" <trevorkebb@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bing Carb Flooding
>
> Folks:
>
> I will be interested to hear what others say about this as I have had the
> same intermittent problem with my 350 hour greyhead, and on the rear carb
> only. Wierd. LEAF advised me to check the fuel levels -1/2"- in the
bowls,
> and the plunger that the floats work against to shut off fuel; its viton
tip
> should be clear of debris and not worn. My was clean and not worn and
float
> levels are good, but I found the rear float in the rear carb binding in
the
> down position. If you pushed it down with fuel in the bowl it would not
> float back up. So I changed the rear float in each carb for the new style
> that has beveled corners. Now there is no possibility that either float
will
> bind in either carb. But I still don't know if that was the problem. I
> suspect not. The annual will be finished on the plane soon and we'll have
to
> see how it goes then.
>
> Robert
>
>
> > Hi ! Guys,
> > I have a Bluehead 582 about 150 hours old so I would not
> > expect worn parts and they certainly look ok. However every now and
then
> > the back carby floods. When it does I get rough running down low. If the
> > motor is not running then I get some dribbling out of those two little
> > holes
> > in the vent loop. It only does it several weeks apart. If I pull the
bowl
> > I
> > can't find anything either in the bowl or needle and seat. It's a worry
> > because it drips on the muffler. In flight I just give it full throttle
> > and
> > back off again and it's fine. On the ground if I pull the bowl off I
find
> > nothing and all is fine when I put it back. Being intermittent like that
> > it
> > makes it very hard to find. It's always only the back bowl and
> > theoretically
> > nothing can get to the needle and seat anyway. I have a filter and a
> > gascolator. Any common problems like this or any ideas would be
> > appreciated. Thanks in advance, Rex.
> > rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
Message 26
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Michel:
Glad to learn about decalage. (If nothing else, I spelled false
correctly.) :>)
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
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| Subject: | Please read this sort of OT |
Some of you are under the impression that I want to rip this list apart and take
a bunch of members with me... NOTHING could be farther from the truth..
My intention is to stay a member of this list and learn as much as possible...
The "other" site is a place we can go to chat, flame, and carry on without pissing
off anyone.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101784#101784
Message 28
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Michel seems to be off line at the moment (what a fount of information!), so
let me butt in and probably make a fool of myself. As I understand it, the
drag associated with a mass moving through air is parasitic drag unless lift
is being produced in which case it is induced drag (plus the inevitable
amount of parasitic drag). The angle of attack of the horizontal stabilizer
(either positive or negative) in level flight is determined by the relative
positions of the center of lift and the center of gravity. If the COG is in
front of the COL then the tail of the plane has to exert a downward pull in
order for the plane to be stable and fly level without constant back
pressure on the stick. This, I think, is the way most small planes are
designed. If, on the other hand, the COG is behind the COL, then the tail
would have to produce lift to avoid a constant nose-high attitude. At least
this is how it's been explained to me.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: flase ribs
>
> Michel
>
> Certainly no objection just a couple of observations.
>
> You said @ 0 deg there would be no lift nor induced drag I'm not too sure
> how you define induced drag. One of the problems with a mass moving
> through
> a fluid ( air ) is there is always drag induced by the movement.
>
> The other observation I would like to make is that many planes e.g. the
> CH701 actually have "upside down" airfoils on the tail to actually push
> the
> tail down and apply load to the wings. I'm interested in if you have
> tried
> this design on your simulator.
>
> BTW what sim are you using where you can use NACA foils???
>
> Noel
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Michel Verheughe
>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 3:49 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flase ribs
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2007, at 4:09 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
>> > The false ribs are not there to provide any lift.
>>
>> Although I came to flying only four years ago and with my meagre 250
>> hours, I consider myself still as a rookie, I will humbly
>> object to the
>> above statement.
>> A flight simulator I use allows me to select between several airfoils
>> when constructing an aircraft. The simulator may not be reliable but
>> the data coming from NACA surely is.
>> A symmetrical NACA airfoil has a much higher coefficient of lift and
>> drag than a flat plate. What is special with a symmetrical airfoil is
>> that both lift and drag are symmetrical around 0 degrees of angle of
>> incidence; while an asymmetrical airfoil may have a positive
>> lift down
>> to minus four degrees.
>>
>> When the rudder is centred, false ribs won't do much of a difference.
>> But when it is off-centred, it works like an asymmetrical
>> airfoil (the
>> MAC is no longer in the longitudinal section) and creates more lift
>> (authority to sway) but also more drag (authority to return to the
>> central position).
>>
>> For the elevator and the horizontal stabiliser, it is slightly
>> different. As I have learnt from this honourable list, the angle of
>> incidence of horizontal stabiliser differs from the wing's angle of
>> incidence by what is called, the decalage. If you are flying level at
>> cruise speed, the angle of incidence of the wings' root may be e.g. 6
>> degrees and the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabiliser, 3
>> degrees. It may vary but the point is; the stabiliser must have a
>> lesser angle than the wing to make sure it doesn't stall first, which
>> could be catastrophic. Maybe the angle may be as low as 0 degrees, in
>> which case, no lift nor induced drag is created. But if there is a
>> slight angle - and there will certainly be at low speed - the use of
>> false ribs should add some lift to the horizontal stabiliser.
>>
>> Of course, I would welcome any objection to my above statement. It is
>> mostly gathered from what I read here and I am avid to learn
>> even more.
>> My only request would then be: Please, don't spilt this list
>> because of
>> a flame! Thank you.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Michel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re GSC prop on ebay |
there is a gsc prop on Ebay under ultralight and also just a gsc hub AND
spiner mal
************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
Message 30
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I have a Rotax 583 fwf engine, mount, exhaust, psru, prop and all
related hardware for sale. It was removed to install 2200 Jabiru.
Would like to sell to someone in need of an engine. Price negotiable,
best offer, plus shipping. It is in Lewiston, Idaho.
Thanks Jerry
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Please read this sort of OT |
If anyone is interested, Avidflyer and I will be "discussing" (cough...cough...)
the "Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2004 / Rules and
Regulations", also known as the "Final Rule"
He has agreed to actually read the document, when time permits, and present his
opinions. What is encouraging is that the man was honest enough to admit that
at this time he has NOT read it... as I suspect many of the group here has
not either.
That's good enough for me as it shows that he is a free thinker, and not reliant
on others to make decisions for him. Some of us live our lives based on our
own thinking and judgement. Some, incapable of that, just sit back.., accept
the words of others at factual, and when asked to prove those words, merely
retort "well..., that's what I was told." or as here, tend to quote the very
commercial publication who's statements are being contested. Hello?
Stay abreast of this in the following days at http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/
And... please offer any input or questions you care to.
Sugested reading beforehand is "Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday,
July 27, 2004 / Rules and Regulations" available for download, .pdf format, from
the AOPA site:
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/regsport.html
Look for it in the "Related Documents" at the bottom of the page.
steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101801#101801
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Charlie I hope the 600 hours were all enjoyed by you, and admire your
passing on the parts. Mine is currently flying partly due to parts such as
yours. Surely others are in the building / repairing stage and will make
good use of what you offer. Wish you weren't on the wrong coast. Ron
North Bend, Oregon 541KF
>From: "Charlie" <cfbflyer@localnet.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: SELLING PLANE
>Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 07:34:42 -0500
>
>
>The time to hang up the head set has finally arrived for me
>So due to the liability exposure I'm going to scrap my non flying 10 year
>old 600 hour
>mod 4 with 582 engine
>
>If any one wants it for parts its free if you pick it up , I cannot deliver
>it
>There are no log books or parts lists or registration
>Its as is where is
>Location is Kingston , NY
>
>cfbflyer@localnet.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Its tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline
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