Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:15 AM - Re: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons per hour (RRTRACK@AOL.COM)
2. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons per hour (Lowell Fitt)
3. 08:46 AM - making ribs (jerry evans)
4. 09:14 AM - Re: making ribs (fox5flyer)
5. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons per hour (Jimmie Blackwell)
6. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons per hour (Clint Bazzill)
7. 12:58 PM - Re: Gap seals (john beirne)
8. 01:09 PM - Kitfox With A Vair In The Air (Norm)
9. 04:07 PM - Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons per hour (kitfoxmike)
10. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: Gap seals (kirk hull)
11. 06:24 PM - Re: Kitfox With A Vair In The Air ()
12. 10:05 PM - San Diego to Ft. Worth (Guy Buchanan)
13. 11:52 PM - Intermittent 912 ULS problem (Kerry Skyring)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons |
per hour
I would like to see a comparison between WD and the GSC. I have a three
blade GSC on my Kitfox 5 with the UL 912. Sure like the looks of it, but does it
perform?
Mark
Wisconsin
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons |
per hour
Mark,
This question poses a few problems. Mostly getting responses from guys that
have used both on the same airplane.
I can give some general info which also brings in the problems with the
comparisons. This will be regarding Model IVs with 912UL engines. In the
beginning of the groiup summer flights we were a flight of 4 Kitfoxes and a
Rans s-6. The Rans doesn't count as it had a ULS and his experience was
with a Warp and a NSI CAP 140.
Of the four Kitfoxes one flew behind a 582 and that doesn't count either.
The three IVs with 912s, two had Warps and the other a GSC. One of the Warp
planes was definitely faster due to lots of fairings etc, but since we all
flew the same speed for group reasons that airplane was distinguished by
fuel economy, burning at least a gallon an hour less than the other two.
One of the other airplanes - the one with the Warp was extremely light at
604 lbs empty but was similar to the GSC in economy - tube gear, different
fairings. The big change came in when the GSC and light Warp went to the
PowerFin. Even after lots of time trying to find the most optimum pitch, a
major drop off in cruise, but after trimming the inch of each blade climbed
like you wouldn't believe with marginal improvement in cruise. Eventually
the one went back to his GSC and then to the cockpit adjustable IVO for
significantly improved performance and the other to the Warp.
What does this all mean, who knows for sure. The impression is that Warp
will improve on the GSC, most definitely on the PowerFin and the IVO the
best if you don't mind dealing with the complexity.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <RRTRACK@aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on
gallons per hour
>I would like to see a comparison between WD and the GSC. I have a three
> blade GSC on my Kitfox 5 with the UL 912. Sure like the looks of it, but
> does it
> perform?
> Mark
> Wisconsin
>
>
>
Message 3
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If one was to make false rib for the rudder and elevator would you use a 5 ply
or 3ply or a bass wood, what would work best for a model 2
Jerry Evans
kitfox 555
Message 4
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I used bass wood. Worked fine for me.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: jerry evans
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:45 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: making ribs
If one was to make false rib for the rudder and elevator would you
use a 5 ply or 3ply or a bass wood, what would work best for a model 2
Jerry Evans
kitfox 555
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons |
per hour
Mark
Just to add a bit of information to what Lowell provided. I had a GSC prop
and liked it ok. Changed to a ground adjustable light weight IVO and have
flown about 100 hours with it.
I have nothing against the GSC and actually I think it looks better on the
Kitfox than the IVO. However, the IVO is much easier to adjust. The pitch
on the IVO can be changed by turning one bold which adjusts all three blades
at the same time. This takes only a couple of minutes whereas the GSC is
more involved because it is necessary to adjust each blade individually.
My observation is that I gained about 5mph in cruise with the IVO and it is
definitely quieter than the GSC. The only down side I know of is that some
people think the IVO is prone to coming apart. My opinion is that the IVO
is safe so long as it is installed properly and checked regularly according
to the IVO specs. Another word of caution on the IVO should you decide to
get one; be sure you get the right crush plates. I had smooth hubs sent to
me where they should have been knurled. IVO did sent the correct plates
immediately.
To do over again, I would still go with the IVO.
This is just my opinion. Hope it helps.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on
gallons per hour
>
> Mark,
>
> This question poses a few problems. Mostly getting responses from guys
> that have used both on the same airplane.
>
> I can give some general info which also brings in the problems with the
> comparisons. This will be regarding Model IVs with 912UL engines. In the
> beginning of the groiup summer flights we were a flight of 4 Kitfoxes and
> a Rans s-6. The Rans doesn't count as it had a ULS and his experience was
> with a Warp and a NSI CAP 140.
>
> Of the four Kitfoxes one flew behind a 582 and that doesn't count either.
> The three IVs with 912s, two had Warps and the other a GSC. One of the
> Warp planes was definitely faster due to lots of fairings etc, but since
> we all flew the same speed for group reasons that airplane was
> distinguished by fuel economy, burning at least a gallon an hour less than
> the other two. One of the other airplanes - the one with the Warp was
> extremely light at 604 lbs empty but was similar to the GSC in economy -
> tube gear, different fairings. The big change came in when the GSC and
> light Warp went to the PowerFin. Even after lots of time trying to find
> the most optimum pitch, a major drop off in cruise, but after trimming the
> inch of each blade climbed like you wouldn't believe with marginal
> improvement in cruise. Eventually the one went back to his GSC and then
> to the cockpit adjustable IVO for significantly improved performance and
> the other to the Warp.
>
> What does this all mean, who knows for sure. The impression is that Warp
> will improve on the GSC, most definitely on the PowerFin and the IVO the
> best if you don't mind dealing with the complexity.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RRTRACK@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on
> gallons per hour
>
>
>>I would like to see a comparison between WD and the GSC. I have a three
>> blade GSC on my Kitfox 5 with the UL 912. Sure like the looks of it, but
>> does it
>> perform?
>> Mark
>> Wisconsin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons |
per hour
I have an Ivo Prop on my Model IV-1200. Have 1200 hours behind it, that
prop is great, almost all the Desert Fox Squadron flys with them. My is in
flight adjustable and have been with IVO prop since first flight in 1997.
IVO props do not break or come apart. Clint
From: "Jimmie Blackwell" <JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on
gallons per hour
<JimmieBlackwell@austin.rr.com>
Mark
Just to add a bit of information to what Lowell provided. I had a GSC prop
and liked it ok. Changed to a ground adjustable light weight IVO and have
flown about 100 hours with it.
I have nothing against the GSC and actually I think it looks better on the
Kitfox than the IVO. However, the IVO is much easier to adjust. The pitch
on the IVO can be changed by turning one bold which adjusts all three blades
at the same time. This takes only a couple of minutes whereas the GSC is
more involved because it is necessary to adjust each blade individually.
My observation is that I gained about 5mph in cruise with the IVO and it is
definitely quieter than the GSC. The only down side I know of is that some
people think the IVO is prone to coming apart. My opinion is that the IVO
is safe so long as it is installed properly and checked regularly according
to the IVO specs. Another word of caution on the IVO should you decide to
get one; be sure you get the right crush plates. I had smooth hubs sent to
me where they should have been knurled. IVO did sent the correct plates
immediately.
To do over again, I would still go with the IVO.
This is just my opinion. Hope it helps.
Jimmie
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on
gallons per hour
>
>Mark,
>
>This question poses a few problems. Mostly getting responses from guys
>that have used both on the same airplane.
>
>I can give some general info which also brings in the problems with the
>comparisons. This will be regarding Model IVs with 912UL engines. In the
>beginning of the groiup summer flights we were a flight of 4 Kitfoxes and a
>Rans s-6. The Rans doesn't count as it had a ULS and his experience was
>with a Warp and a NSI CAP 140.
>
>Of the four Kitfoxes one flew behind a 582 and that doesn't count either.
>The three IVs with 912s, two had Warps and the other a GSC. One of the
>Warp planes was definitely faster due to lots of fairings etc, but since we
>all flew the same speed for group reasons that airplane was distinguished
>by fuel economy, burning at least a gallon an hour less than the other two.
>One of the other airplanes - the one with the Warp was extremely light at
>604 lbs empty but was similar to the GSC in economy - tube gear, different
>fairings. The big change came in when the GSC and light Warp went to the
>PowerFin. Even after lots of time trying to find the most optimum pitch, a
>major drop off in cruise, but after trimming the inch of each blade climbed
>like you wouldn't believe with marginal improvement in cruise. Eventually
>the one went back to his GSC and then to the cockpit adjustable IVO for
>significantly improved performance and the other to the Warp.
>
>What does this all mean, who knows for sure. The impression is that Warp
>will improve on the GSC, most definitely on the PowerFin and the IVO the
>best if you don't mind dealing with the complexity.
>
>Lowell
>----- Original Message ----- From: <RRTRACK@aol.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:15 AM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on
>gallons per hour
>
>
>>I would like to see a comparison between WD and the GSC. I have a three
>>blade GSC on my Kitfox 5 with the UL 912. Sure like the looks of it, but
>>does it
>>perform?
>>Mark
>>Wisconsin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 7
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I fitted the elevator gap seals as suggested previously but I didnt get a chance
to test fly the aircraft until this weekend due to weather and work commitments
however I have flown five hours over the weekend and what a difference it
makes to the flare and landing rollout previously I had been bouncing down the
runway in the fox but now I produce nice three pointers consistently I am used
to larger aircraft (PC6 / PA31) and have always thought the kitfox handling
a bit washy Thanks for a great tip guys.
John.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102837#102837
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ra_kitfox_gbtnr_web_899.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Kitfox With A Vair In The Air |
After various set backs over the last two and a half years, thurs. March
the 22nd. the time seemed right for the first test hop after replacing
the Subaru EA 81 with a 164 cid non smog Corvair in my Series 5
Kitfox.. This first flight was short! About a half a patch. But I
have witnesses. Chase One and Ground Com. I got a cht warning light and
landed. The second flight was yesterday, the 23rd of Mar. It lasted
for a patch and a half. Chase Two and Ground Com were there also.
After much discussion the consensus is I need more space for the air to
exit the cowl, and a larger oil cooler. I have an eight fin installed. I
was offered one of the originals which looks more like an aircraft oil
cooler (Chase Two, found in a Junk Yard when he was interested in
Corvairs back in the seventies, he would loan it but not sell it) or a
twelve finned one he also has. More later. Norm, San Angelo Tx.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Best prop was: Fuel consumption based on gallons per |
hour
thanks for the report on the IVO, looks like I'll be ordering one in.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102880#102880
Message 10
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Can you post pics of the gap seal and any details on how you made them
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john beirne
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:56 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gap seals
I fitted the elevator gap seals as suggested previously but I didnt get a chance
to test fly the aircraft until this weekend due to weather and work commitments
however I have flown five hours over the weekend and what a difference it
makes to the flare and landing rollout previously I had been bouncing down the
runway in the fox but now I produce nice three pointers consistently I am used
to larger aircraft (PC6 / PA31) and have always thought the kitfox handling
a bit washy Thanks for a great tip guys.
John.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102837#102837
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ra_kitfox_gbtnr_web_899.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox With A Vair In The Air |
Norm: GREAT JOB! As far as I know you're the first flying Kitfox Corvair! I hope
to be not too far behind you with my Series 7. Thanks for answering the question
as to whether it's possible to balance the Vair on the KF fuselage. Is it
a tri-gear or a taildragger? Any special weight & balance problems? You're not
flying with several pounds of lead on your tail? The Kitfox group is gaining
a new subgroup. 164 cu in. direct drive 110 horsepower. We'll all be interested
to hear about your performance figures. Just in the last couple days someone
posted, asking about alternatives to Rotax power. It will probably be of interest
to this group that the Corvair can be acquired and completely rebuilt
for approx $3000. Great work, Norm. Stay safe and fly smart. John
From: Norm <nebchmp@wcc.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox With A Vair In The Air
After various set backs over the last two and a half years, thurs. March
the 22nd. the time seemed right for the first test hop after replacing
the Subaru EA 81 with a 164 cid non smog Corvair in my Series 5
Kitfox.. This first flight was short! About a half a patch. But I
have witnesses. Chase One and Ground Com. I got a cht warning light and
landed. The second flight was yesterday, the 23rd of Mar. It lasted
for a patch and a half. Chase Two and Ground Com were there also.
After much discussion the consensus is I need more space for the air to
exit the cowl, and a larger oil cooler. I have an eight fin installed. I
was offered one of the originals which looks more like an aircraft oil
cooler (Chase Two, found in a Junk Yard when he was interested in
Corvairs back in the seventies, he would loan it but not sell it) or a
twelve finned one he also has. More later. Norm, San Angelo Tx.
Message 12
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| Subject: | San Diego to Ft. Worth |
All,
At the end of this week I'll be flying from San Diego to
Phoenix for the Desert Fox Fly-in. I then intend to leave Sunday and
fly to Ft. Worth, Texas. As I will be travelling at highway speeds
I'll need to stop a few times on the way, and overnight at least
once. Do you have any recommendations for a comfortable, fun
overnight stop? (I'll be bringing camping equipment, just in case.)
Are there any other must-see stops or scenery I should note?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Intermittent 912 ULS problem |
We now have about 10 hours on the new 912 ULS in the S5 Kitfox.
Intermittently it will not reach full power, beginning to run rough at about
4,400 revs and not going over 5 thousand. Seems to occur mainly when the
engine is getting towards the upper limit of temperature during ground
running but has also occured during normal temperature in flight.
It will run normally delivering full power and then, after 15 minutes or so
this problem arises and then disappears again. A little unsettling. Because
it was intermittent we suspected spark but have changed ignition boxes,
cables, plugs and it remains. We are beginning to suspect carburettors and
perhaps mixture at this particular rev. range. Does anyone have similar
experience that might help us eliminate this? Thanks in advance.
Kerry,
Kitfox builders helper.
>
>
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