---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/07/07: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:23 AM - Re: Soap (fox5flyer) 2. 05:01 AM - Re: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? (Bob) 3. 05:24 AM - Re: PolyBrush (dpremgood@aol.com) 4. 06:35 AM - Re: PolyBrush (Roger McConnell) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: PolyBrush (Tom Jones) 6. 06:54 AM - Re: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? (Roger McConnell) 7. 07:10 AM - New fuel proof Wing Tanks (RRTRACK@aol.com) 8. 07:16 AM - Re: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? (Andy Fultz) 9. 07:20 AM - Re: Tailwheel spring broke! (Michel Verheughe) 10. 07:43 AM - Re: PolyBrush (xfire) 11. 08:05 AM - Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks (fox5flyer) 12. 08:10 AM - 912 UL with IVO props (RRTRACK@AOL.COM) 13. 09:25 AM - Re: Tailwheel spring broke! (Lynn Matteson) 14. 09:59 AM - Re: Tailwheel spring broke! (Michel Verheughe) 15. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: PolyBrush (Dan Billingsley) 16. 11:34 AM - Re: Soap (RAY Gignac) 17. 01:54 PM - Re: 912 UL with IVO props (kitfoxmike) 18. 02:14 PM - (no subject) (JJProbasco@cs.com) 19. 02:44 PM - Re: Tailwheel spring broke! (Rexinator) 20. 02:48 PM - John McBean (Don Smythe) 21. 03:09 PM - Poly/Plastic tanks (Don Smythe) 22. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: 912 UL with IVO props (mic thiessen) 23. 03:33 PM - Re: Flap usage (Larry Martin) 24. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: 912 UL with IVO props (Noel Loveys) 25. 05:00 PM - Re: 912 UL with IVO props (kitfoxmike) 26. 05:05 PM - Re: Flap usage (kitfoxmike) 27. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: 912 UL with IVO props (Lowell Fitt) 28. 05:48 PM - Re: 912 UL with IVO props (crazyivan) 29. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: 912 UL with IVO props (Randy Daughenbaugh) 30. 06:09 PM - Re: Tailwheel spring broke! (Lynn Matteson) 31. 06:22 PM - Ft. Worth Trip Report (Really Long) (Guy Buchanan) 32. 06:24 PM - Re: 912 UL with IVO props (kitfoxmike) 33. 06:32 PM - Re: Poly/Plastic tanks (Guy Buchanan) 34. 10:40 PM - Most HP on a Kitfox? (darinh) 35. 11:32 PM - Re: Most HP on a Kitfox? (kurt schrader) 36. 11:40 PM - S5 first flight photos (Kerry Skyring) 37. 11:57 PM - Happy Easter (QSS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:04 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Soap About the only thing I can think of is that many of the types of car waxes use silicones, including the wash compounds. Silicones are very difficult to remove and tend to get into every crack, nick, and crevice. This in itself is no problem until you need to repaint, whether touchup or a new coat. Deke > > What is everyone using as soap mixed with water to wash your kitfox? I > picked up some turtle wax zip wax car wash to use. My Fox is paint with > aerothane! Anyone. > > Ray ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:10 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? From: "Bob" Welcome to the group. Here's a link to a nice summary of the LSA requirements for both you and the airplane: http://www.sportsplanes.com/About/LSARules/tabid/39/Default.aspx Long story short is that the gross weight which you (as builder) assign the airplane can not be more than 1320#, regardless of what it's designed to. For example, I'm building a Series 5 that has the 1400# wings, but I'll probably certify it as 1320#. Same airplane, but someday when I sell it that should increase the potential pool of buyers. The key to viability of this is the empty weight (EW) and if you're careful to stay to the simple vfr airplane you mentioned, we have members who've proven the airplane can have less than a 800# EW. The 1320#-800# gives 520# of useful load for two people and gas. It does take some planning and leaving off a lot of extra options, such as extra radios, bigger engines, etc. You can use virtually any engine you want, but the more expensive 912/912S is used because the final weight typically seems to be at least 80-100# less than some of the more common alternate engines (O-200 & Subies). Bob -------- Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105425#105425 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: PolyBrush From: dpremgood@aol.com Dan, I'm in the covering phase as well. All my polybrush is pink. Suggest you call the Polybrush people about this one. Doug Remoundos Classic IV -----Original Message----- From: dan@azshowersolutions.com Sent: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 11:58 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: PolyBrush I opened my first galon can of PolyBrush today and was surprised to see it a color of rust. Looking at the side of the can it said tinted, yet it didn't indicate what color.I have used PolyBrush in the past and it was a pink color. Is anyone familiar with this color / tint? These cans may very well be 3-4 years old and I just want to be on the cautious side b-4 I start using it. Anyone with this experience? Dan, Mesa, AZ ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. =0 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:31 AM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: PolyBrush Dan, In the can, it probable does look like a rust color or reddish brown but when you thin it to apply to the fabric it will look more pink. IMO Roger Mac _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: PolyBrush I opened my first galon can of PolyBrush today and was surprised to see it a color of rust. Looking at the side of the can it said tinted, yet it didn't indicate what color. I have used PolyBrush in the past and it was a pink color. Is anyone familiar with this color / tint? These cans may very well be 3-4 years old and I just want to be on the cautious side b-4 I start using it. Anyone with this experience? Dan, Mesa, AZ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:57 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: PolyBrush From: "Tom Jones" Dan, it sounds like your poly brush has seperated. Don't throw it out yet though. It is guaranteed for 4 years and the poly fiber folks have a trick to get it mixed back together. It involves skimming the oil off the top, doing some mixing, and mixing the oil back in...something like that any how...it has been a long time ago for me. If you have some unopened cans take them to the hardware store have have them shake them in a paint shaker. But most of all do like Doug said and call polyfiber, they will probably get you on track with it. Tom Jones Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105440#105440 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:33 AM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? I'll probably open a can of worms here but here goes. You need to be aware that if you register your homebuilt in the E-LSA category you can not get the repairman's cert unless you go through the 16 hr. course. If you are going to just be a Sport Pilot and not fly at night. And if you don't mind paying someone else to do your annual inspections then it's not a problem. Roger Mac -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSD Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 11:41 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? I know this has probably been covered here but I couldn't find it in a search. I've been told that a 6 or 7 can be built as an lsa but I've never seen any detail about what would have to be changed or left out. It's advertised to be 1400lbs gross with a 912S and 920lbs seems like quite a lot to have to drop. I would want to build a seven with a 912 and very basic VFR panal. I'm not a pilot yet and it's quite likely I'm missing the weight requirements concept. Does this just have to do with how it's registered and certifacated or how it's built? I guess I don't get it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105410#105410 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:04 AM PST US From: RRTRACK@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: New fuel proof Wing Tanks Here is company that makes new wing tanks for the Kitfox and Avid that fit in the existing wings between the ribs. They are 6 gallons each and are made to supply 12 gallons in each wing for a total of 24 gallons. wingtanks.com Mark Wisconsin Kitfox 5 Vixen 912 UL (IVO IFA prop on order) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:12 AM PST US From: "Andy Fultz" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? Don't register it as an ELSA. Just register it as an Experimental with a gross not exceeding 1320#. Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger McConnell Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? I'll probably open a can of worms here but here goes. You need to be aware that if you register your homebuilt in the E-LSA category you can not get the repairman's cert unless you go through the 16 hr. course. If you are going to just be a Sport Pilot and not fly at night. And if you don't mind paying someone else to do your annual inspections then it's not a problem. Roger Mac -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSD Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 11:41 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? I know this has probably been covered here but I couldn't find it in a search. I've been told that a 6 or 7 can be built as an lsa but I've never seen any detail about what would have to be changed or left out. It's advertised to be 1400lbs gross with a 912S and 920lbs seems like quite a lot to have to drop. I would want to build a seven with a 912 and very basic VFR panal. I'm not a pilot yet and it's quite likely I'm missing the weight requirements concept. Does this just have to do with how it's registered and certifacated or how it's built? I guess I don't get it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105410#105410 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:43 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel spring broke! On Apr 6, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > I had the original 2-leaf spring break on my IV while taxiing on rough > grass. Lynn, did both leafs break together and where was the place of fracture? Thanks. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:33 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: PolyBrush From: "xfire" I had a few cans that had been on the shelf for about 10 yrs. I just hit them with a power mixer for about 10 minutes and all was well.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105458#105458 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:44 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New fuel proof Wing Tanks Good contribution Mark. That's a keeper. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: RRTRACK@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 9:09 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: New fuel proof Wing Tanks Here is company that makes new wing tanks for the Kitfox and Avid that fit in the existing wings between the ribs. They are 6 gallons each and are made to supply 12 gallons in each wing for a total of 24 gallons. wingtanks.com Mark Wisconsin Kitfox 5 Vixen 912 UL (IVO IFA prop on order) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:46 AM PST US From: RRTRACK@AOL.COM Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 UL with IVO props Can the 912 UL be operated with the ultralight 3 blade 70" IVO IFA prop with out a clutch in the gear reduction? It shows to weigh 9.5 lbs. Lockwood wants $1000 to add the clutch to my gearbox. Desert Fox Flyers or KitfoxMike any suggestions here? Also, will the cruise pitch lug the engine too much. What rpm on the 912 UL would be best for cruise? Thanks for any help here. Mark Wisconsin Kitfox Vixen 912 UL (IVO IFA on order) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:15 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel spring broke! No, only the main leaf broke, and it broke right about where the "helper" or "booster" leaf ends. So that left me with sort of a tailskid of two leafs that kept the rudder off the ground. It still got dinged a bit with the tailwheel flopping around, but my speed was real slow when it happened, so that helped. Lynn do not archive On Apr 7, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > > On Apr 6, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: >> I had the original 2-leaf spring break on my IV while taxiing on >> rough grass. > > Lynn, did both leafs break together and where was the place of > fracture? Thanks. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:16 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel spring broke! On Apr 7, 2007, at 6:26 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > No, only the main leaf broke, and it broke right about where the > "helper" or "booster" leaf ends. Hum, it makes sense. Thanks Matt! Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:46 AM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: PolyBrush Thanks for the insight guys, I suspect it would be best to contact the PolyFiber Co. Dan xfire wrote: I had a few cans that had been on the shelf for about 10 yrs. I just hit them with a power mixer for about 10 minutes and all was well.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105458#105458 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:05 AM PST US From: "RAY Gignac" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Soap Thanks for all the replies on the soap. Thanks Ray >From: "fox5flyer" >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Soap >Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 07:22:01 -0500 > > >About the only thing I can think of is that many of the types of car waxes >use silicones, including the wash compounds. Silicones are very difficult >to remove and tend to get into every crack, nick, and crevice. This in >itself is no problem until you need to repaint, whether touchup or a new >coat. >Deke > > > > > What is everyone using as soap mixed with water to wash your kitfox? I > > picked up some turtle wax zip wax car wash to use. My Fox is paint with > > aerothane! Anyone. > > > > Ray > > _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as $771/month* https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:35 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props From: "kitfoxmike" You don't need the clutch. That's the prop I have. I set for 5400rpm, which is max, for take off. I don't have any washers added inside the motor. I run full out level and then lower rpm with the prop to 5200, pull back the throttle about a fingers length and maintain 5200. Been getting about 110kts ground speed gps, sometimes more, been playing with it. I do have another issue right now and that's my floats are giving troubles, they are sinking. I have the latest and greatest on the way, if you can believe 200 bucks for 4 of those buggers. But I need them. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105512#105512 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:54 PM PST US From: JJProbasco@cs.com Subject: Kitfox-List: (no subject) My 1450 # Model 5 kit came with the convertable wing tip option that allows an outer portion of each wing to be easily removed to effectively become a clipped wing (speed wing?) version. When in this configuration the gross weight limit is reduced. (I can't presently remember the lesser gross but I think it was in the 1320 # range) It seems the (clipped) speed wing configuration offers some weight savings potential for the purposes of sportplane eligibility. Does anyone have data on the typical stall speed and other characteristics for the shorter wing that would be sportplane relevant? I suspect the same could apply to the Models 6 and 7. Jeff Probasco ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:08 PM PST US From: Rexinator Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel spring broke! Has there been a poll concerning tail wheel springs and at what hours or landing count they broke? I'm sure it's a preflight item, but has anyone found a cracked spring during pre/post flight checks or are they not showing signs of impending failure? It seems I'm only reading of failures during use and the resulting damage. Rexinator Colorado Lynn Matteson wrote: > > No, only the main leaf broke, and it broke right about where the > "helper" or "booster" leaf ends. So that left me with sort of a > tailskid of two leafs that kept the rudder off the ground. It still > got dinged a bit with the tailwheel flopping around, but my speed was > real slow when it happened, so that helped. > > Lynn > do not archive > > On Apr 7, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > >> >> On Apr 6, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: >> >>> I had the original 2-leaf spring break on my IV while taxiing on >>> rough grass. >> ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:25 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Kitfox-List: John McBean John, Can you contact me off list. I need some quick help Don Smythe dosmythe@cox.net ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:22 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Kitfox-List: Poly/Plastic tanks Speaking of Poly fuel tanks, I have all of a sudden found concern. As some of you might remember, I had a suspect 582 injection oil tank that appeared to have cracks near the top filler. Today, a friend looked at the suspect cracks and pulled the cap to feel on the inside. He applied a little inside pressure and the Poly/Plastic/whatever tank split even more. So, the suspected cracks are real and the material appears to be very brittle. Also, about a year or so ago, my rotary valve tank cracked to the point of leaking badly. My point is, there are a zillion types of Poly/Plastic/ whatever material tanks on the market. We have no more idea what the material is than what's in our fiberglass tanks. The earlier post (to a web site) about the new tanks to replace our fiberglass tanks did not mention anything about the material they are made from or the process of manufacturing. I've now had two plastic tanks fail from cracking (injection and rotary). That only leaves the header tank that hasn't failed yet. Everyone might want to take a real close look at your installed Poly/Plastic tanks. These tanks are flight safety items and I'm now convinced they will break in a heartbeat. Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: RRTRACK@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 10:09 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: New fuel proof Wing Tanks Here is company that makes new wing tanks for the Kitfox and Avid that fit in the existing wings between the ribs. They are 6 gallons each and are made to supply 12 gallons in each wing for a total of 24 gallons. wingtanks.com Mark Wisconsin Kitfox 5 Vixen 912 UL (IVO IFA prop on order) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:16 PM PST US From: "mic thiessen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props Hi Mike what is your prop reduction...if you are running 5400 engine what is the prop speed? I have a 2.17 reduction on a Subaru. I cruise at 4000 rpm so my prop will be turning at 1843 rpm. At what speed is the prop the most efficient? I want to get the medium IVO 72" 3 blade. Any thoughts? Thanks Mic Fox IV Speedster C-FOXX >From: "kitfoxmike" >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props >Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 13:53:57 -0700 > > >You don't need the clutch. That's the prop I have. I set for 5400rpm, >which is max, for take off. I don't have any washers added inside the >motor. I run full out level and then lower rpm with the prop to 5200, pull >back the throttle about a fingers length and maintain 5200. Been getting >about 110kts ground speed gps, sometimes more, been playing with it. I do >have another issue right now and that's my floats are giving troubles, they >are sinking. I have the latest and greatest on the way, if you can believe >200 bucks for 4 of those buggers. But I need them. > >-------- >kitfoxmike >model IV, 1200 >speedster >912ul >Do not archive > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105512#105512 > > _________________________________________________________________ Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:33 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Flap usage Seeing how the airplane was designed to be flown STOL, and Dean Wilson (Avid) designed the flaperons to enhance this ability. I use full flaperons for all take off and landings. I have landed with complete control in 20+ mph direct crosswinds with no problems. (grass strip) . Larry ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:44 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props I have my own way of Finding leaks in floats. I had a compartment lid with a hole drilled in it and an automotive tubeless tire valve installed in it. With the floats in the water I used to pressurize the compartment with a bicycle pump put on the dive mask and look underneath to see where the bubbles come from. Patch with PRC from the outside... Water pressure will push the PRC into the leak and allow it to seal. The first place to check for leaks is right around the keep at the step To apply the PRC the floats should be dry so all you have to do is mark the area of the leaks with a crayon or talk stick. Usually drying can be helped with Methyl hydrate or acetone. That will help clean the surfaces for the PRC to stick to. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > kitfoxmike > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 6:24 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props > > > > > You don't need the clutch. That's the prop I have. I set > for 5400rpm, which is max, for take off. I don't have any > washers added inside the motor. I run full out level and > then lower rpm with the prop to 5200, pull back the throttle > about a fingers length and maintain 5200. Been getting about > 110kts ground speed gps, sometimes more, been playing with > it. I do have another issue right now and that's my floats > are giving troubles, they are sinking. I have the latest and > greatest on the way, if you can believe 200 bucks for 4 of > those buggers. But I need them. > > -------- > kitfoxmike > model IV, 1200 > speedster > 912ul > Do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105512#105512 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:59 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props From: "kitfoxmike" I have a 2.2 gear reduction, I figure the engine should run below 5200rpm, so that's where I keep it for cruise, and I don't like the idea of having an engine opened up all the way. I'm still experimenting with the prop, so that's what I'm going with right at this time. I have thought of shortening the prop up to an inch more. Noel, I have two issues with the floats, one if you let the floats set in the fuel in the bowls you can see that one floats a little lower the the other, this is my rich run lately. The other that started a couple days ago is on full throttle the engine would start running real bad, farten and spitten. If I pulled the throttle back lets say to 3/4, it would run better, a real eye opener, got my juices going, since this happened on take off. I had a hard time getting it to do it on the ground. So, I went up three times to find the problem, finally after landing I let it sit and and full throttled it and finally it did it on the ground, I pulled the throttle back and hit the mags, then I turned the fuel off real quick. After pulling the bowls I found the left side was overflowing with fuel and one of the floats stuck to the bottom. I ordered the newest floats and that's that. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105545#105545 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:27 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flap usage From: "kitfoxmike" The only thing I can say to that is, holy crap, I wouldn't fly any airplane with that kind of cross winds with flaps on. besides, if you were trully flying in that kind of winds without flaps, you can almost reach out and pick something up off the runway, because you will be supper slow allready. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105546#105546 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:14 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props Mike, Lots of folks have trouble running the Rotax at the recommended cruise RPM. The book says 5500 as does Eric Tucker the North American technical rep for Rotax. He's the guy that gives the Rotax Forums at the Fly-ins On the way to Arizona last week on one of the stops, one of our guys was in a friendly debate with one of the folks that doesn't like "Rotax" this regarding the RPMs run. Hal made the point that his - the guy's - planned 0200 with it's 4" stroke had a higher piston speed at 2700 RPM than his 912 with it's 2" stroke at 5500 PRM. It is Hal's contention, and I tend to agree, that it is piston speed that breaks engines, not RPM. These things are designed for 5800 RPM for five minutes and 5500 RPM all day. I suspect you are cheating yourself out of some performance with no real long term benefit. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxmike" Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props > > I have a 2.2 gear reduction, I figure the engine should run below 5200rpm, > so that's where I keep it for cruise, and I don't like the idea of having > an engine opened up all the way. I'm still experimenting with the prop, > so that's what I'm going with right at this time. I have thought of > shortening the prop up to an inch more. > > Noel, > I have two issues with the floats, one if you let the floats set in the > fuel in the bowls you can see that one floats a little lower the the > other, this is my rich run lately. The other that started a couple days > ago is on full throttle the engine would start running real bad, farten > and spitten. If I pulled the throttle back lets say to 3/4, it would run > better, a real eye opener, got my juices going, since this happened on > take off. I had a hard time getting it to do it on the ground. So, I went > up three times to find the problem, finally after landing I let it sit and > and full throttled it and finally it did it on the ground, I pulled the > throttle back and hit the mags, then I turned the fuel off real quick. > After pulling the bowls I found the left side was overflowing with fuel > and one of the floats stuck to the bottom. I ordered the newest floats > and that's that. > > -------- > kitfoxmike > model IV, 1200 > speedster > 912ul > Do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105545#105545 > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:31 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props From: "crazyivan" Mark - I have a 912 UL with the 72" ultralight Ivo and it works great. The Ivo is about 1.7 lbs lighter than the GSC and out performs it in all respects. No clutch needed. I bought this prop from John & Debra at Kitfox www.kitfoxaircraft.com and they confirmed the size from IvoProp. Since this prop was recommended by Kitfox and Ivo, I was not required by my FSDO to do a 5-hour test period on this "major change." You might sacrifice a little climb rate with the 70" prop but you should get a little higher cruise speed because you will be able to pitch it more. Let us know how it turns out. -------- Dave Speedster 912 UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105551#105551 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:54 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props Eric Tucker also makes the point in seminars that cylinder pressures are higher at lower RPM than they are at 5500 RPM. He says run 'em at 5500 RPM. I do still often loaf around at 4900 - 5000 RPM on my 912S. But when I am going some place it is 5500! Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props Mike, Lots of folks have trouble running the Rotax at the recommended cruise RPM. The book says 5500 as does Eric Tucker the North American technical rep for Rotax. He's the guy that gives the Rotax Forums at the Fly-ins On the way to Arizona last week on one of the stops, one of our guys was in a friendly debate with one of the folks that doesn't like "Rotax" this regarding the RPMs run. Hal made the point that his - the guy's - planned 0200 with it's 4" stroke had a higher piston speed at 2700 RPM than his 912 with it's 2" stroke at 5500 PRM. It is Hal's contention, and I tend to agree, that it is piston speed that breaks engines, not RPM. These things are designed for 5800 RPM for five minutes and 5500 RPM all day. I suspect you are cheating yourself out of some performance with no real long term benefit. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxmike" Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props > > I have a 2.2 gear reduction, I figure the engine should run below 5200rpm, > so that's where I keep it for cruise, and I don't like the idea of having > an engine opened up all the way. I'm still experimenting with the prop, > so that's what I'm going with right at this time. I have thought of > shortening the prop up to an inch more. > > Noel, > I have two issues with the floats, one if you let the floats set in the > fuel in the bowls you can see that one floats a little lower the the > other, this is my rich run lately. The other that started a couple days > ago is on full throttle the engine would start running real bad, farten > and spitten. If I pulled the throttle back lets say to 3/4, it would run > better, a real eye opener, got my juices going, since this happened on > take off. I had a hard time getting it to do it on the ground. So, I went > up three times to find the problem, finally after landing I let it sit and > and full throttled it and finally it did it on the ground, I pulled the > throttle back and hit the mags, then I turned the fuel off real quick. > After pulling the bowls I found the left side was overflowing with fuel > and one of the floats stuck to the bottom. I ordered the newest floats > and that's that. > > -------- > kitfoxmike > model IV, 1200 > speedster > 912ul > Do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105545#105545 > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:36 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel spring broke! I just did the math, and mine broke at the 587th takeoff/landing mark...give or take a couple. : ) Lynn On Apr 7, 2007, at 5:44 PM, Rexinator wrote: > > Has there been a poll concerning tail wheel springs and at what > hours or landing count they broke? I'm sure it's a preflight item, > but has anyone found a cracked spring during pre/post flight checks > or are they not showing signs of impending failure? > > It seems I'm only reading of failures during use and the resulting > damage. > > Rexinator > Colorado > > > Lynn Matteson wrote: > >> >> No, only the main leaf broke, and it broke right about where the >> "helper" or "booster" leaf ends. So that left me with sort of a >> tailskid of two leafs that kept the rudder off the ground. It >> still got dinged a bit with the tailwheel flopping around, but my >> speed was real slow when it happened, so that helped. >> >> Lynn >> do not archive >> >> On Apr 7, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: >>> >>>> I had the original 2-leaf spring break on my IV while taxiing >>>> on rough grass. >>> > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:05 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Kitfox-List: Ft. Worth Trip Report (Really Long) Hi all, I just returned to Ramona (San Diego) from Ft. Worth, Texas; a 28 hour round trip to give my original builder a two hour ride. The trip started with an afternoon flight to Thunder Ridge, northwest of Phoenix, AZ, for the Desert Fox Fly-in. Being new to the place I did my usual conservative approach, at pattern altitude with all the right calls. (I was briefly non-plussed by the car on the runway, but they got out of the way soon enough.) After parking my plane behind Stan Specht's out adjacent to the runway I wandered in, taking in the sight of Stan and Cara Foster's beautiful desert spread garnished with ten or so Kitfoxes, a few Rans, and a Sky Ranger. (Don't ask.) Tom Laurence was tinkering with his Sky Ranger so I introduced myself. In ten minutes I was introduced to nearly a dozen more participants, all swapping stories about their ride in earlier that day from Nevada and other points north. I didn't have much to add, except for my experience at Wickenburg, 35 miles north of Thunder Ridge, where I had been told on Unicom that there was no 100LL because a flight of ten Kitfoxes had come in earlier in the day and sucked them dry! (Fortunately the kind and extravagant lady at the FBO went to the effort of sumping their tanks to dredge up 10 gallons of 100LL for me to add by gas-can.) This brought a laugh because the flight of ten was, of course, Lowell's group coming through en-masse. What followed was a weekend of eating, drinking, flying and lies, with a little seriousness thrown in for good measure. Some impressions: Most of the lies, outrageous as they are, are probably true. Heard on the radio during Saturday morning's mass flight: "Buckeye traffic, flight of five Kitfoxes for left 35." "Hey Stan, I saw a canal off to the right. I'm goin' to check it out." "Me too." "I'm in." "I'm with you." "Fox 1 here. How many planes are still with me." "Hell I'm not goin' to miss this. Fox 1 away." "There it is! Hal's in." "Hey Hal, that canal looks pretty skinny. You sure you gonna fit?" "YeeeeHaaawwww" "Mark's in." "Hey Hal, you goin' under that bridge?" "Looks pretty low." "Waaaahoooo!" "Hey do you guy's know you're headed right at each other?" "I'll go high." "Man look at the spray." A rush, yanking and banking between the hills, making sure the tips stay out of the trees; my first time. As I was the lone 582, my flight graciously let me set the pace and stayed with me throughout. Back to Thunder Ridge for more good food. On the way back I'm flying low, probably 100', when Hal goes by lower by at least 80'. It looks fun so I hammer it and drop to his six. He then shows me some more "Kitfoxin'" as we duck and weave through the foothills, stirring up dust. My favorite is shooting the ridges, up and over the top at zero-g, then back down the other side: thrilling. High speed pass at Thunder Ridge. Wind the 582 to 6700 and hold it at 30' all the way down the runway. Break left, and teardrop right for 17. The great food, especially breakfast. Waking up at daybreak in the hanger to a beautiful sunrise. Looking over the shoulder at one of the Desert Fox crew showing pictures of his new kit, then his previous plane, then the wreckage, then his seriously gruesome wounds, then his recovery. He introduces himself: Michael Gibbs, back flying and little worse for wear. His attitude is incredible. I am inspired. Sunday morning everybody got up, loaded, said their good-by's, and left. I made a more leisurely departure, as I had 11 or so hours ahead of me to Ft. Worth. The trip was uneventful, except to tell Lynn that you can wind your way through the mountains east of Phoenix, finally negotiating Guadeloupe pass, and never go over 7500'. (You can also stay south, going west to Tucson without having to wind your way between the passes.) I stayed the night at Cavern City, near Carlsbad, New Mexico, but couldn't get a rental car to go see the Caverns. The next day I flew on to Ft. Worth, where I met Bob Ducar, the original 11 year veteran of my Kitfox build. The next day he flew me around the Dallas/Ft. Worth class B delighting in his airplane while I navigated and worked the radios. I showed him some "Kitfoxin" at one of the many reservoirs, yankin' and bankin' along the shore at low level, then flying slow with the doors open. We then went back to the airport where I showed him some short field work and then it was back to the hangar for pictures and stories. Bob was so excited he called his wife and exclaimed, "Hey honey, I'm getting another airplane!" She put that thought to rest, but Bob's happiness made the whole trip worthwhile. After lunch Bob reciprocated with a tour of Lockheed Martin, showing me the Joint Strike Fighter fabrication facility among other things. Very impressive. That night a cold front swept through leaving behind 40 mph tail winds. Not one to let a good thing go to waste I high-tailed out of Ft. Worth early the next morning. You'll get a laugh out of this. So I'm cruising along at 80 MIAS and 115 on the GPS. Hmmm, I think. I thought it was supposed to be a 40 mph tail wind. Sure looks fast out the window. Squint at the GPS. Squint some more. "Damn, what's that "kt" next to the 115?" Nah, it can't be. (Fiddle with the GPS menus.) "SUMBITCH! The GPS is showin' KNOTS! I wonder when that happened?" Set to mph the GPS showed 132 over the ground! That damn GPS has been on knots since day one! I've been pissin and moanin' about my speed for the past nine months and the damn GPS has been on knots the whole time. How embarrassing. I guess it could have been worse. No wonder Lowell thought I was going fast back at Thunder Ridge. I had tail winds all the way there, and all the way home. I attribute it to good, clean, living. See you at Cameron Park! Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:37 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props From: "kitfoxmike" I meant to say I don't like to go below 5200 rpm, I will say 5200 rpm is a nice smooth, quit setting. The IVO with 70" seems a little much in my opinion for the rpms. I would like a little more rpms. So my thought after getting the engine to run correctly, is to cut 1/4 inch off and see what happens, it is suppose to increase the rpms by doing this. I have a bunch more pitch that i can put into the prop, so I don't think it will hurt, but help. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105560#105560 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:55 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Poly/Plastic tanks At 03:08 PM 4/7/2007, you wrote: >So, the suspected cracks are real and the material appears to be >very brittle. Also, about a year or so ago, my rotary valve tank >cracked to the point of leaking badly. I'm not sure why it happens. My original polyethylene oil tank shattered in my hands before it was even used. I think it was about 10 years old. All I can think is that polyethylene hardens with age, though I haven't verified that. It is true, however, that if I put polyethylene tanks anywhere I would make sure they were easy to replace, without having to re-cover. Guy Buchanan K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:33 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Most HP on a Kitfox? From: "darinh" I am curious as to what is the most HP (horsepower) has been put on a Kitfox. I think the most I have seen is the 125 from the IO240. It is possible that some guys have done some work to their engines to get more than this but...so another question: what is the maximum hp that the kitfox is rated for? And, is the issue total hp from the engine or the weight of the engines that produce these larger hp outputs? I am asking because I am trying to determine what engine to use and I think I have narrowed it down to either a 914 turbo or the Ram Engines 140 hp EA81. I am leaning toward the EA81 simply because of price and I do like the extra hp that it puts out. However, Ram also offers this exact engine but with a low boost supercharger that kicks in around 4000 rpm and produces up to 200 hp at WOT (6200 rpm). That redline is a bit high for my blood but 170 hp at 5500 rpm would be awesome! What is the groups thoughts on this...can the Kitfox (this is a Series 7 by the way) handle this kind of power? I am not worried about the weight as it is less than the IO240. I am an engineer so I have contemplated using the static thrust produced by the engine and calcing the stresses in the frame members but thought it would be nice to see if anything like this has been done before. After all, I have seen an IO540 (260 hp) in a Super Cub before... All thoughts and comments are very appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105592#105592 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:41 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Most HP on a Kitfox? Hi Darin, Some of the Ea-81 guys have had engines up to 160 HP that I have heard of. Mine is rated as 143 hp. So it has been done to 160 anyway. >From my testing, I find the prop gyro forces are something to consdier too. If you have a lot of power, you need a prop that will handle it. Prop weight and gyro forces should be watched. Could be bigger stressers than engine weight alone. I say this because I have some cowl scratches from my spinner cause by my spin testing. My CAP 140 prop weighs 125 lbs. My engine mounts are fairly soft though.... If you can get the HP and stay under the IO-240 weight with a light enough prop, it would seem a good package to me. What thrust in pounds are you expecting to see from your desired engine? Kurt S. S-5 w/NSI 140 turbo --- darinh wrote: > I am curious as to what is the most HP (horsepower) > has been put on a Kitfox. I think the most I have > seen is the 125 from the IO240. It is possible that > some guys have done some work to their engines to > get more than this but...so another question: > > what is the maximum hp that the kitfox is rated for? 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:42 PM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Kitfox-List: S5 first flight photos It's obviously been a good couple of weeks for first flights. Congratulations to Tom. Here are a couple of shots of OE-AMJ during early flights from Stockerau near Vienna. Most problems, including intermittent rough running, appear to have been solved and the longest flight has been 56 mins. The test pilot reports 1000 fpm with pilot and full fuel and cruise of 98kts. These are to be confirmed with more testing and at the end of the process I will post all of the figures. I will be at the airfield later and will get better photos. It certainly is a nice plane and it has been interesting to see the test pilot become increasingly enthusiastic. Kerry. > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:59 PM PST US From: "QSS" Subject: Kitfox-List: Happy Easter HI Guys, have a happy Easter break and fly safe. 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