Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:59 AM - Re: Poly/Plastic tanks (Barry West)
2. 03:58 AM - Re: 912 UL with IVO props (crazyivan)
3. 04:26 AM - Re: Ft. Worth Trip Report (Really Long) (Lynn Matteson)
4. 04:48 AM - Re: Most HP on a Kitfox? (Brett Walmsley)
5. 05:05 AM - Most HP on Kitfox? (fox5flyer)
6. 05:52 AM - Re: 912 UL with IVO props (Kem Dunnebacke)
7. 06:20 AM - Re: clip wing Kitfox 5 (RRTRACK@aol.com)
8. 06:49 AM - Re: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? (Jose M. Toro)
9. 07:10 AM - Re: S5 first flight photos (Tom Jones)
10. 07:12 AM - Re: Poly/Plastic tanks (Bob)
11. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: 912 UL with IVO props (Cudnohufsky's)
12. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Poly/Plastic tanks (Barry West)
13. 09:13 AM - Fox Classix 4 (Harry Cieslar)
14. 09:57 AM - Re: Fox Classix 4 (Tom Jones)
15. 10:55 AM - Re: Fox Classix 4 (Don & Betty Stevenson)
16. 11:00 AM - Re: Most HP on a Kitfox? (darinh)
17. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Fox Classix 4 (Harry Cieslar)
18. 01:29 PM - Re: Most HP on Kitfox? (kurt schrader)
19. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Most HP on a Kitfox? (kurt schrader)
20. 04:11 PM - Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks (Jerry)
21. 04:24 PM - Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine (Lowell Fitt)
22. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks (Don Smythe)
23. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks (Guy Buchanan)
24. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks (Andy Fultz)
25. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks (Dee Young)
26. 07:01 PM - Re: Poly/Plastic tanks ()
27. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine ()
28. 07:06 PM - Re: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks (Dee Young)
29. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Poly/Plastic tanks ()
30. 07:20 PM - Re: 912 UL with IVO props (kitfoxmike)
31. 10:42 PM - My new Foxkit (JSD)
32. 10:54 PM - Re: Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine (Lowell Fitt)
33. 11:23 PM - Glassfiber tanks and ethanol (Kreem) (John Allen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Poly/Plastic tanks |
Don, I would guess your tanks are polyethylene. This is one of the
best materials for chemical resistance available. However, it can't
take much increase in temperature. For gas, and even gas with alcohol
in it, polyethylene should work fine but hot oil might be a problem.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 5:08 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Poly/Plastic tanks
Speaking of Poly fuel tanks, I have all of a sudden found concern. As
some of you might remember, I had a suspect 582 injection oil tank that
appeared to have cracks near the top filler. Today, a friend looked at
the suspect cracks and pulled the cap to feel on the inside. He applied
a little inside pressure and the Poly/Plastic/whatever tank split even
more. So, the suspected cracks are real and the material appears to be
very brittle. Also, about a year or so ago, my rotary valve tank
cracked to the point of leaking badly.
My point is, there are a zillion types of Poly/Plastic/ whatever
material tanks on the market. We have no more idea what the material is
than what's in our fiberglass tanks. The earlier post (to a web site)
about the new tanks to replace our fiberglass tanks did not mention
anything about the material they are made from or the process of
manufacturing.
I've now had two plastic tanks fail from cracking (injection and
rotary). That only leaves the header tank that hasn't failed yet.
Everyone might want to take a real close look at your installed
Poly/Plastic tanks. These tanks are flight safety items and I'm now
convinced they will break in a heartbeat.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: RRTRACK@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
Here is company that makes new wing tanks for the Kitfox and Avid
that fit in the existing wings between the ribs. They are 6 gallons each
and are made to supply 12 gallons in each wing for a total of 24
gallons.
wingtanks.com
Mark
Wisconsin
Kitfox 5 Vixen 912 UL (IVO IFA prop on order)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
See what's free at AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL with IVO props |
kitfoxmike - I can get 115+ mph with my 72" IvoProp straight and level with a compromise
cruise/climb pitch. I can get maybe a few more mph with a cruise pitch.
I don't think the top speed would be effected very much by chopping the
prop down; drag rises as the square of the speed and with 80 hp, you are probably
topped out at around 115 or so. I believe you will lose a substantial amount
of climb rate, though.
Give Ivo a call and see what they think.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105602#105602
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| Subject: | Re: Ft. Worth Trip Report (Really Long) |
Thanks for the report, Guy...man that sounds like fun! I can't wait
for my trip west, including Hondo, Cameron Park, and whatever else I
can squeeze in.
Halfway calm winds here today, so I'm going up for my version of a
"sunrise service" : )
Lynn
do not archive
> I had tail winds all the way there, and all the way home. I
> attribute it to good, clean, living.
>
> See you at Cameron Park!
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Most HP on a Kitfox? |
I don't want to make anyone mad here, but lots of extra horsepower is not always
your best friend. It seems that certain airframes and gross weights have a HP
number that will be in harmony. I think the kitfox family was designed around
the 80 to 100 HP engine range. Remember extra horsepower means increased stress
on the airframe.....and the pilot. Increased HP requires increased skill.
Again, not trying to stir up a hornet nest, but flying these airplanes is supposed
to be fun and relaxing.
--------
Brett
Model IV 1200/912UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105608#105608
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| Subject: | Most HP on Kitfox? |
Good morning Kurt. Was the weight of your prop a misprint or did I miss
the meaning of what you were illustrating? Mine weighs 22 lbs including
spinner.
Maybe I should finish my coffee then read it again? :-)
Deke
do not archive
Kurt sez:
"I say this because I have some cowl scratches from my
spinner cause by my spin testing. My CAP 140 prop
weighs 125 lbs. My engine mounts are fairly soft
though...."
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL with IVO props |
Kitfoxmike can you contact me off list please 252-638-5828 would like to ask what
model Ivo you have the light or the med.?thanks kem 3163K
--------
kitfox IV PLAY Speedster H-30
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105616#105616
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| Subject: | Re: clip wing Kitfox 5 |
The Kitfox 5 with the shorter wings have a gross weight of 1200#. And may
have to high of a stall and top speed to qualify for LSA. The longer wings
registered at 1320# or less should be fine for LSA. Would be interesting to hear
from some one with the short wing 5 to learn the stall and top speeds.
Mark
Wisconsin
Kitfox Vixen 912 UL
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | Re: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane? |
Max gross weight for lsa is 1320 pounds. You will need to "loose" 80 pounds.
----- Original Message ----
From: JSD <sctmch@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2007 12:40:39 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: How does one build a 7 as a sportplane?
I know this has probably been covered here but I couldn't find it in a search.
I've been told that a 6 or 7 can be built as an lsa but I've never seen any detail
about what would have to be changed or left out. It's advertised to be
1400lbs gross with a 912S and 920lbs seems like quite a lot to have to drop. I
would want to build a seven with a 912 and very basic VFR panal. I'm not a pilot
yet and it's quite likely I'm missing the weight requirements concept. Does
this just have to do with how it's registered and certifacated or how it's built?
I guess I don't get it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105410#105410
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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| Subject: | Re: S5 first flight photos |
And congrats to you and your crew Kerry. It is a great feeling isn't it. say
hi to everyone at the airport for me.
Tom Jones
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105630#105630
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| Subject: | Re: Poly/Plastic tanks |
Happy Easter to all!
I'm still up in the air on what to install, but have learned that the car and boat
makers skipped PE and went to HDPE because there are important differences
in chemistry and molecular density. Any material we choose to use will have
limitations and I'm sure every mechanic on the group can tell stories about changing
Cessna aluminum tanks, Beech bladders, or re-sealing Mooneys. Anybody
have experience with HDPE tanks?
Bob
do not archive
--------
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105631#105631
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL with IVO props |
Mike,
If you do not mind posting the info to the list I would like to hear what
prop, pitch, gearbox ratio etc you are running.
Thanks,
Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kem Dunnebacke" <jboatm16@netzero.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:52 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912 UL with IVO props
>
> Kitfoxmike can you contact me off list please 252-638-5828 would like to
> ask what model Ivo you have the light or the med.?thanks kem 3163K
>
> --------
> kitfox IV PLAY Speedster H-30
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105616#105616
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Poly/Plastic tanks |
Bob, I have no experience with HDPE as a tank but with other uses. It is
stronger than ordinary polyethylene and can take a little higher temperatur.
Chemical resistance is better also. Again, it should work great as a fuel
tank but may be effected by high temperature oil.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <dswaim1119@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Poly/Plastic tanks
>
> Happy Easter to all!
>
> I'm still up in the air on what to install, but have learned that the car
> and boat makers skipped PE and went to HDPE because there are important
> differences in chemistry and molecular density. Any material we choose to
> use will have limitations and I'm sure every mechanic on the group can
> tell stories about changing Cessna aluminum tanks, Beech bladders, or
> re-sealing Mooneys. Anybody have experience with HDPE tanks?
> Bob
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105631#105631
>
>
>
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|
I am thinking of purchasing a partly completed Classic 4 kit, frame on
wheels, wings, no covers. I am unable to find any builder sites which
document building a KF. Does anyone have any idea how many hours it
would take to finish such a product with basic instruments and a
firewall forward setup if I can find one. The only suggestion I could
find was 1000 hrs from kit in the box stage. Despite extensive
discussion's on every conceivable topic, I was unable to find a single
builders log. Can anyone help? Thanks.
Falcon in Ontario.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fox Classix 4 |
I was a first time builder of a Classic 4. From the frame on wheels with wings
rigged to finished was 1000 hrs. Total from opening the box was 1200 hrs. My
firewall foreward and engine was an air cooled plug and play and the only electrical
accessory is the starter. If you use a more complex engine, that part
takes considerably longer.
I think I could build the same plane in 600-700 hours now that I have it figured
out. lots of thinking and head scratching on the first one.
tom Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105682#105682
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fox Classix 4 |
Hi Harry, I'm located in Caledon Ontario and may have what your looking for. Contact
me off list at shericom@rogers.com so we can talk. Don Stevenson
I am thinking of purchasing a partly completed Classic 4 kit, frame on
wheels, wings, no covers. I am unable to find any builder sites which
document building a KF. Does anyone have any idea how many hours it
would take to finish such a product with basic instruments and a
firewall forward setup if I can find one. The only suggestion I could
find was 1000 hrs from kit in the box stage. Despite extensive
discussion's on every conceivable topic, I was unable to find a single
builders log. Can anyone help? Thanks.
Falcon in Ontario.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Most HP on a Kitfox? |
Kurt,
I haven't looked into the thrust seriously yet so I don't know the answer to that.
I am not too worried about the 140 hp engine as I know guys have flown this
on the Kitfox without problems...the 200 hp is a bit different but as I said,
I would limit the rpm to something lower than the 6200 redline, say 5500 which
should produce something around 170 hp.
Brett,
I agree, horsepower is not everything but when you fly from high airstrips with
high density altitues, sometimes it can be everything. I also agree that these
are supposed to be fun airplanes to fly...well, fun is in the eye of the pilot
and I think the power in the backcountry of Idaho would be fun. That said,
I need to do a bit more thinking and research to determine the exact engine
for my 7 but I know the 912S is not the one...I want better performance than this
engine will give. The 914 would be great but the nearly $27k price tag isn't
so great.
Thanks for the comments,
Darin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105698#105698
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fox Classix 4 |
Thanks, many more hrs than anticipated. I thought things should go
pretty quick;y once the frame was set up and wings attached. No hope of
flying quickly. Sound like a great plane, but I better look for more
finished product. Thanks again. Harry
Tom Jones wrote:
>
> I was a first time builder of a Classic 4. From the frame on wheels with wings
rigged to finished was 1000 hrs. Total from opening the box was 1200 hrs.
My firewall foreward and engine was an air cooled plug and play and the only
electrical accessory is the starter. If you use a more complex engine, that part
takes considerably longer.
>
> I think I could build the same plane in 600-700 hours now that I have it figured
out. lots of thinking and head scratching on the first one.
> tom Jones
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105682#105682
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Most HP on Kitfox? |
Right Deke,
I meant 25 lbs all included. Somehow an extra 100 got
in there, which would really screw up my W&B.
Guess staying up with my relatives until after
midnight did effect me after all. Not enough coffee
for me either.... :-( Now that I retired, I hope to
convert back to human hours sometime soon. Not there
yet. Probably not my last typo either.
But the point of gyroscopic forces still applies.
Just a liiiiitle bit weaker 100 lbs lighter.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- fox5flyer <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net> wrote:
> Good morning Kurt. Was the weight of your prop a
> misprint or did I miss the meaning of what you were
> illustrating? Mine weighs 22 lbs including spinner.
> Maybe I should finish my coffee then read it again?
> :-)
> Deke
> do not archive
>
> Kurt sez:
> "I say this because I have some cowl scratches from
> my
> spinner cause by my spin testing. My CAP 140 prop
> weighs 125 lbs. My engine mounts are fairly soft
> though...."
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Most HP on a Kitfox? |
Darin,
This was my thinking way back when I got my engine.
It may be "only" 140 hp, but it stays there up to
12-14,000 feet, due to the turbo, before starting to
die off. Makes it something like a normally asperated
180 HP engine at altitude.
I would agree that you should get what you can in HP
for the weight, keeping the weight down, then use only
what is needed for -this- takeoff. Remember that if
you go heavy, you may end up dragging around some lead
that does nothing for you except keep it balanced.
The RAM system is worth looking at IMHO.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- darinh <gerns25@netscape.net> wrote:
> Kurt,
>
> I haven't looked into the thrust seriously yet so I
> don't know the answer to that. I am not too worried
> about the 140 hp engine as I know guys have flown
> this on the Kitfox without problems...the 200 hp is
> a bit different but as I said, I would limit the rpm
> to something lower than the 6200 redline, say 5500
> which should produce something around 170 hp.
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks |
What was the company that makes the new fuel tanks.
Also does anyone have a copy of How to Fly a Kitfox by Ed Downs
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine |
This is an interesting subject of which I am by no means an expert, but all
ears (eyes). I have long felt that the Rotax 912 engine was a perfectly
design for the IV and earlier model Kitfoxes. The 912 ULS coming later and
being a marked improvement on that.
Then the V through Seven Series airplanes came in with no real clear winner
in engine choice. Any one of the several choices have advantages and
disadvantages. Rotax - light weight, but arguably under powered. Certified
and auto conversions - more powerful, but significantly heavier.
My impression on reading posts over the past few years seems to indicate
that with the larger airplanes and the more powerful engines cruise speed is
definitely enhanced. How much of that is due to the airframe improvements -
electric trim, smooth cowl etc., I can only guess. But, and correct me if I
am wrong, short takeoff distances and enhanced climb does not seem to be
one of the benefits of the more powerful, heavier engines.
What I would like to see is several similar airplanes of different engine
configurations fly together in and out of all sorts of places, all in
exactly the same conditions. Pilot proficiency would then be the only
variable and we could get some real numbers. I personally have trouble with
stop watches and charts. I get questions from time to time as to my cruise
speeds. I really don't have a good answer as it depends a lot on
conditions. I do, however, know how I do with respect ot the guys I fly
with - especially on the long cross country legs - ability to keep up and
fuel burn. We also climb out of some interesting places and also will
sometimes delay a climb over approaching terrain until the last moment for
competitive excitement. There have been times we have misjudged and been
forced into a 360 or two.
Another problem with coming to a consesus is that most guys that make engine
choices tend to like their choices and will defend them pretty vigorously.
And in most cases, they have not had the opportunity to fly their airplane
or a similar airplane with one of the other engines. So who's to know.
Lowell
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Most HP on a Kitfox?
>
> Kurt,
>
> I haven't looked into the thrust seriously yet so I don't know the answer
> to that. I am not too worried about the 140 hp engine as I know guys have
> flown this on the Kitfox without problems...the 200 hp is a bit different
> but as I said, I would limit the rpm to something lower than the 6200
> redline, say 5500 which should produce something around 170 hp.
>
> Brett,
>
> I agree, horsepower is not everything but when you fly from high airstrips
> with high density altitues, sometimes it can be everything. I also agree
> that these are supposed to be fun airplanes to fly...well, fun is in the
> eye of the pilot and I think the power in the backcountry of Idaho would
> be fun. That said, I need to do a bit more thinking and research to
> determine the exact engine for my 7 but I know the 912S is not the one...I
> want better performance than this engine will give. The 914 would be
> great but the nearly $27k price tag isn't so great.
>
> Thanks for the comments,
>
> Darin
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105698#105698
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks |
The company is http://wingtanks.com/. I looked the site over and could
not find any location,address or phone number of the company. Does
anyone know who and where they are located?
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
What was the company that makes the new fuel tanks.
Also does anyone have a copy of How to Fly a Kitfox by Ed Downs
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks |
At 04:03 PM 4/8/2007, you wrote:
>Also does anyone have a copy of How to Fly a Kitfox by Ed Downs
I have a copy. Do you mean an EXTRA copy? I think John sells them. I
know I bought mine from Skystar right before they went bankrupt. Must
have been what put them over...
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks |
Don,
I'm not sure who "they" are or exactly where "they" are located, but I do
know that Steve Winder at AIRDALE played a big part in the research and
developement. I have seen the tanks and all the bits to retrofit them at
the AIRDALE shop. Looks to be a really nice setup.
Andy Fultz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 6:33 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
The company is http://wingtanks.com/. I looked the site over and could
not find any location,address or phone number of the company. Does anyone
know who and where they are located?
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
What was the company that makes the new fuel tanks.
Also does anyone have a copy of How to Fly a Kitfox by Ed Downs
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks |
Steve is in and out of the Caldwell, Idaho airport area and I think has
an office there. He has a UK email address and spends quit a bit of time
in the UK. I think he may monitor this list from time to time but not
sure. I have seen posts from him in the past.
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe<mailto:dosmythe@cox.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
The company is http://wingtanks.com/<http://wingtanks.com/>. I looked
the site over and could not find any location,address or phone number of
the company. Does anyone know who and where they are located?
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry<mailto:vcmi@lewiston.com>
To: Kitfox List<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
What was the company that makes the new fuel tanks.
Also does anyone have a copy of How to Fly a Kitfox by Ed Downs
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Poly/Plastic tanks |
Don, I checked my oil tank and it says Naglene on it I think. It
is original and I have put through it 0ver 30 gallons quarts of oil
through it in last 3 years alone . Mind you I did change the RV
bottle on last engine after 450 hours TT. Last year i swapped it out
on Rotax exchange program for a brand new 582 with E box and it came
with a new RV bottle ( i hate to say but i think that they are 60$
alone )
Did you get your starter working ok yet ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 6:08 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Poly/Plastic tanks
Speaking of Poly fuel tanks, I have all of a sudden found concern. As
some of you might remember, I had a suspect 582 injection oil tank that
appeared to have cracks near the top filler. Today, a friend looked at
the suspect cracks and pulled the cap to feel on the inside. He applied
a little inside pressure and the Poly/Plastic/whatever tank split even
more. So, the suspected cracks are real and the material appears to be
very brittle. Also, about a year or so ago, my rotary valve tank
cracked to the point of leaking badly.
My point is, there are a zillion types of Poly/Plastic/ whatever
material tanks on the market. We have no more idea what the material is
than what's in our fiberglass tanks. The earlier post (to a web site)
about the new tanks to replace our fiberglass tanks did not mention
anything about the material they are made from or the process of
manufacturing.
I've now had two plastic tanks fail from cracking (injection and
rotary). That only leaves the header tank that hasn't failed yet.
Everyone might want to take a real close look at your installed
Poly/Plastic tanks. These tanks are flight safety items and I'm now
convinced they will break in a heartbeat.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: RRTRACK@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
Here is company that makes new wing tanks for the Kitfox and Avid
that fit in the existing wings between the ribs. They are 6 gallons each
and are made to supply 12 gallons in each wing for a total of 24
gallons.
wingtanks.com
Mark
Wisconsin
Kitfox 5 Vixen 912 UL (IVO IFA prop on order)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
See what's free at AOL.com.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine |
Lowell,
Numbers are all a help but really have to compare apples to apples as in
total weights and speed mods, fairings etc that have been done.
I have seen 912 Kitfox cruise at 80s mph and other at 120 mph ........
Anyone seen a 582 powered in the high 90s or over 100 yet ? My ASI reads
115 in cruise but TAS is about 90
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:22 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine
>
> This is an interesting subject of which I am by no means an expert, but
> all ears (eyes). I have long felt that the Rotax 912 engine was a
> perfectly design for the IV and earlier model Kitfoxes. The 912 ULS
> coming later and being a marked improvement on that.
>
> Then the V through Seven Series airplanes came in with no real clear
> winner in engine choice. Any one of the several choices have advantages
> and disadvantages. Rotax - light weight, but arguably under powered.
> Certified and auto conversions - more powerful, but significantly heavier.
>
> My impression on reading posts over the past few years seems to indicate
> that with the larger airplanes and the more powerful engines cruise speed
> is definitely enhanced. How much of that is due to the airframe
> improvements - electric trim, smooth cowl etc., I can only guess. But,
> and correct me if I am wrong, short takeoff distances and enhanced climb
> does not seem to be one of the benefits of the more powerful, heavier
> engines.
>
> What I would like to see is several similar airplanes of different engine
> configurations fly together in and out of all sorts of places, all in
> exactly the same conditions. Pilot proficiency would then be the only
> variable and we could get some real numbers. I personally have trouble
> with stop watches and charts. I get questions from time to time as to my
> cruise speeds. I really don't have a good answer as it depends a lot on
> conditions. I do, however, know how I do with respect ot the guys I fly
> with - especially on the long cross country legs - ability to keep up and
> fuel burn. We also climb out of some interesting places and also will
> sometimes delay a climb over approaching terrain until the last moment for
> competitive excitement. There have been times we have misjudged and been
> forced into a 360 or two.
>
> Another problem with coming to a consesus is that most guys that make
> engine choices tend to like their choices and will defend them pretty
> vigorously. And in most cases, they have not had the opportunity to fly
> their airplane or a similar airplane with one of the other engines. So
> who's to know.
>
> Lowell
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:00 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Most HP on a Kitfox?
>
>
>>
>> Kurt,
>>
>> I haven't looked into the thrust seriously yet so I don't know the answer
>> to that. I am not too worried about the 140 hp engine as I know guys
>> have flown this on the Kitfox without problems...the 200 hp is a bit
>> different but as I said, I would limit the rpm to something lower than
>> the 6200 redline, say 5500 which should produce something around 170 hp.
>>
>> Brett,
>>
>> I agree, horsepower is not everything but when you fly from high
>> airstrips with high density altitues, sometimes it can be everything. I
>> also agree that these are supposed to be fun airplanes to fly...well, fun
>> is in the eye of the pilot and I think the power in the backcountry of
>> Idaho would be fun. That said, I need to do a bit more thinking and
>> research to determine the exact engine for my 7 but I know the 912S is
>> not the one...I want better performance than this engine will give. The
>> 914 would be great but the nearly $27k price tag isn't so great.
>>
>> Thanks for the comments,
>>
>> Darin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105698#105698
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks |
ukav8r@micron.net<mailto:ukav8r@micron.net>
Try this email address for Steve Winder
Dee
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Fultz<mailto:andynfultz@bellsouth.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
Don,
I'm not sure who "they" are or exactly where "they" are located, but
I do know that Steve Winder at AIRDALE played a big part in the research
and developement. I have seen the tanks and all the bits to retrofit
them at the AIRDALE shop. Looks to be a really nice setup.
Andy Fultz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 6:33 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
The company is http://wingtanks.com/<http://wingtanks.com/>. I
looked the site over and could not find any location,address or phone
number of the company. Does anyone know who and where they are located?
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry<mailto:vcmi@lewiston.com>
To: Kitfox List<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New fuel proof Wing Tanks
What was the company that makes the new fuel tanks.
Also does anyone have a copy of How to Fly a Kitfox by Ed Downs
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Poly/Plastic tanks |
Those new tanks look decent .
Question --- I have a dash tank about 8 or 9 gallons in my IV -- what is it
made of?
It works well with no leaks .............
If these tanks are similar they will likely be decent. IF I have ethanol
issues I will buy a pair and try them as it sounds like a great solution
and a fast repair job. And if I have no issues with ethanol I wonder if I
can add another tank beside my 6 gal wings tanks now ? I know a few other
Kitfox guys near me that would opt for a larger tank in a jiffy.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry West" <barry@pgtc.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Poly/Plastic tanks
>
> Bob, I have no experience with HDPE as a tank but with other uses. It is
> stronger than ordinary polyethylene and can take a little higher
> temperatur. Chemical resistance is better also. Again, it should work
> great as a fuel tank but may be effected by high temperature oil.
>
> Barry West
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob" <dswaim1119@comcast.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 9:12 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Poly/Plastic tanks
>
>
>>
>> Happy Easter to all!
>>
>> I'm still up in the air on what to install, but have learned that the car
>> and boat makers skipped PE and went to HDPE because there are important
>> differences in chemistry and molecular density. Any material we choose to
>> use will have limitations and I'm sure every mechanic on the group can
>> tell stories about changing Cessna aluminum tanks, Beech bladders, or
>> re-sealing Mooneys. Anybody have experience with HDPE tanks?
>> Bob
>> do not archive
>>
>> --------
>> Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105631#105631
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 912 UL with IVO props |
gear ratio 2.2
prop IVO inflight 70" ultralight
912ul engine 95 vintage
speedster wings
So far ground speed with 5200rpm about an inch from full throttle gives me anywhere
between 100 and 105kts ground speed GPS, you do need to start with 5800 and
then trim the prop to lower the rpm. I need to make more test, since the plane
is grounded right at the moment, this will have to wait. Take off is way
cool, generally around 1800 ft per minute. But then again I need more air time
to test fully.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105798#105798
Message 31
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|
After all this time on the fence I bid on a 6/7 on Ebay. We went to see it and
were pretty impressed by Ed (the builder) and his project. I think it's probably
more than 65% done. He's moved on to another project and doesn't have the time
to finish this. I really couldn't believe nobody came along to outbid me with
all the extras included and all the time invested--then again everyone was
eating their Easter dinner (except me of course). I just couldn't be more thrilled!!!
Well maybe when it leaves the ground. I'm not a pilot but just found
a field where they like to start you out on stick & rudder& taildragger (and keep
you there). Well I've kind of been immersed in this for years and just needed
to come across the right deal at the right time. I'm in the trucking biz and
have limited time at home but take long vacations like two or three months
at a time. I guess I'll have it done in two or three years. I'm quite sure I'll
have a few questions for you guys. I would have liked to have started the project
from the beginning but my work situation doesn't fit that so this is just
great. I'll be the third owner of this kit and I'll get to be the one that flys
it. Sorry about the onrunning paragraph but that's how I write when I'm all
atwitter.--Scott
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105818#105818
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine |
Dave, I flew alongside Guy Buchanan. He is in the high 90s for sure if not
100. During the flight I asked the others what they thought he was doing,
the answer back - 100.
But your point is well taken. That is why I want to fly alongside someone
for comparison. All the variables are there to see. I just wonder how much
horsepower can compensate for the other variables and how a heavy high
horsepower airplane compares with a light lower horsepower airplane in climb
and cruise. What we need to do is all meet at Johnson Creek in Idaho and see
who can climb straight out and clear the ridge. I have seen it done by a
Kitfox.
Lowell
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <davef@cfisher.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine
>
> Lowell,
>
> Numbers are all a help but really have to compare apples to apples as in
> total weights and speed mods, fairings etc that have been done.
>
> I have seen 912 Kitfox cruise at 80s mph and other at 120 mph ........
>
> Anyone seen a 582 powered in the high 90s or over 100 yet ? My ASI reads
> 115 in cruise but TAS is about 90
>
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 7:22 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: (was) Most HP on a Kitfox? Which Engine
>
>
>>
>> This is an interesting subject of which I am by no means an expert, but
>> all ears (eyes). I have long felt that the Rotax 912 engine was a
>> perfectly design for the IV and earlier model Kitfoxes. The 912 ULS
>> coming later and being a marked improvement on that.
>>
>> Then the V through Seven Series airplanes came in with no real clear
>> winner in engine choice. Any one of the several choices have advantages
>> and disadvantages. Rotax - light weight, but arguably under powered.
>> Certified and auto conversions - more powerful, but significantly
>> heavier.
>>
>> My impression on reading posts over the past few years seems to indicate
>> that with the larger airplanes and the more powerful engines cruise speed
>> is definitely enhanced. How much of that is due to the airframe
>> improvements - electric trim, smooth cowl etc., I can only guess. But,
>> and correct me if I am wrong, short takeoff distances and enhanced climb
>> does not seem to be one of the benefits of the more powerful, heavier
>> engines.
>>
>> What I would like to see is several similar airplanes of different engine
>> configurations fly together in and out of all sorts of places, all in
>> exactly the same conditions. Pilot proficiency would then be the only
>> variable and we could get some real numbers. I personally have trouble
>> with stop watches and charts. I get questions from time to time as to my
>> cruise speeds. I really don't have a good answer as it depends a lot on
>> conditions. I do, however, know how I do with respect ot the guys I fly
>> with - especially on the long cross country legs - ability to keep up and
>> fuel burn. We also climb out of some interesting places and also will
>> sometimes delay a climb over approaching terrain until the last moment
>> for competitive excitement. There have been times we have misjudged and
>> been forced into a 360 or two.
>>
>> Another problem with coming to a consesus is that most guys that make
>> engine choices tend to like their choices and will defend them pretty
>> vigorously. And in most cases, they have not had the opportunity to fly
>> their airplane or a similar airplane with one of the other engines. So
>> who's to know.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:00 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Most HP on a Kitfox?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Kurt,
>>>
>>> I haven't looked into the thrust seriously yet so I don't know the
>>> answer to that. I am not too worried about the 140 hp engine as I know
>>> guys have flown this on the Kitfox without problems...the 200 hp is a
>>> bit different but as I said, I would limit the rpm to something lower
>>> than the 6200 redline, say 5500 which should produce something around
>>> 170 hp.
>>>
>>> Brett,
>>>
>>> I agree, horsepower is not everything but when you fly from high
>>> airstrips with high density altitues, sometimes it can be everything. I
>>> also agree that these are supposed to be fun airplanes to fly...well,
>>> fun is in the eye of the pilot and I think the power in the backcountry
>>> of Idaho would be fun. That said, I need to do a bit more thinking and
>>> research to determine the exact engine for my 7 but I know the 912S is
>>> not the one...I want better performance than this engine will give. The
>>> 914 would be great but the nearly $27k price tag isn't so great.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the comments,
>>>
>>> Darin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105698#105698
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Glassfiber tanks and ethanol (Kreem) |
"Bob" <dswaim1119@comcast.net> wrote:
"Since I'm .. about to start on the wings, plus we do
have 5-10% ethanol in our car gas in Maryland, so this
is extremely timely for me. ... My tanks are from the
very first lot of Series 5 parts, probably built in
1993, and never installed, so I've been researching
possible approaches before I install them. ...The
extreme "other end" approach is to make new tanks out
of plastic."
Bob, the wing structure of the Rans containing plastic
tanks is different from the Kitfox. My understanding
was that plastic tanks could be a problem in the
Kitfox wings. The plastic 6 gallon cans I use to fuel
mine have no structural properties and do expand and
contract when filled and emptied.
Since your tanks are out, maybe you could test them
directly. Mine were made about the same time as
yours. I tried short-term tests on mine with ethanol,
acetone, and MEK, and found no effect. Since Rotaxes
don't like lead, and I didn't want to pay a dollar per
gallon more for 100LL, plus TCP, I then decided to
just use CA car gas without sloshing. I have noticed
no problems in the year since.
Too bad someone on this list can't get some wrecked
Kitfox tanks from various periods and test them
long-term directly.
John Allen, Kitfox IV Speedster Rotax 912UL
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
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