Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff (Marin Streeter)
2. 04:40 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield (fox5flyer)
3. 05:05 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield (Lynn Matteson)
4. 05:15 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff (Lynn Matteson)
5. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff (GENTRYLL@aol.com)
6. 06:37 AM - Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke Rotax (Tom Jones)
7. 06:38 AM - Re: Feul tanks (Larry Martin)
8. 07:26 AM - bing 64 carb (kitfoxmike)
9. 07:54 AM - Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff (n85ae)
10. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield (Larry Huntley)
11. 08:15 AM - Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield (n85ae)
12. 08:16 AM - Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield (Michael Gibbs)
13. 08:19 AM - Re: Flap usage (n85ae)
14. 08:52 AM - Re: Flap usage (kitfoxmike)
15. 09:15 AM - Re: bing 64 carb (Guy Buchanan)
16. 09:51 AM - Re: bing 64 carb (kitfoxmike)
17. 10:06 AM - Re: bing 64 carb (kitfoxmike)
18. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield (Larry Huntley)
19. 10:49 AM - KF IV 1050/582 for sale (Christoph Graf)
20. 12:04 PM - Kitfox 5 Flight tests (RRTRACK@aol.com)
21. 12:11 PM - Re: bing 64 carb (Don Smythe)
22. 12:19 PM - Re: Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke Rotax (Don Smythe)
23. 12:25 PM - Re: Feul tanks (Don Smythe)
24. 12:28 PM - Re: Kitfox 5 Flight tests (mic thiessen)
25. 12:51 PM - Re: Kitfox 5 Flight tests (RRTRACK@aol.com)
26. 01:17 PM - Re: bing 64 carb (kitfoxmike)
27. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: bing 64 carb (Don Smythe)
28. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: bing 64 carb (Don Smythe)
29. 03:46 PM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?CCI_VG's_on_the_Avid_Flyer_STOL? (Larry Martin)
30. 04:01 PM - Re: bing 64 carb (kitfoxmike)
31. 04:14 PM - Re: bing 64 carb (Noel Loveys)
32. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: bing 64 carb (Noel Loveys)
33. 04:51 PM - Re: Re: New fuel proof Wing TanksRe: New fuel proof Wing TanksRe: New fuel proof Wing TanksNew fuel proof Wing Tanks (Jerry)
34. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: bing 64 carb (Don Smythe)
35. 06:16 PM - Fuel tanks (jdmcbean)
36. 07:00 PM - Re: Flaperon Covering Removal (Mdkitfox@aol.com)
37. 07:42 PM - Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Guy Buchanan)
38. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: bing 64 carb (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff |
That's why I have always used Lexan or Polycarbonate. Plus it's stronger
for a bird strike. I just replaced the windshield and had no cracks or
breaks.
Marin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
--- GENTRYLL@aol.com wrote:
> Now we are understanding the problem. The original
> "glass" that comes with
> a Kitfox kit is Lexan. If you have to order a
> replacement from LP Aero it
> will be acrylic. I had 4 shipped to me before I
> received one that UPS could not break.
I just retired from UPS. When I made my side door
glass it took me 5 trys to have 2 that did not crack.
Must be something in the UPS training.... :-(
Kurt
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield |
I think whether it's Lexan or Rhino, it's still polycarbonate. My
second windshield on my M2 was by Manchester, also polycarbonate.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Huntley
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield
What ser # was yours? Mine is (I think) 1805. We must be pretty close
together. Sounds like whatever polycarbonate was available is what was
used. I stress relieved mine and it was in place about 2 yrs ago w/ 400
hrs when it became so scratched and rough that I changed it. I found
some Rhino locally and used it again. Wonder if there is much
difference? Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: GENTRYLL@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield
My kit was a 1992 and it had Lexan written on the paper. My
windshield broke from the tight radius bend at the end of the spar on
top down a line at maximum curvature on both sides to the bottom. In
each case it broke in the garage while I was in the back working on the
header tank behind the seat. During installation, I did not stress
relieve with heat as was later reccommended to me as it wasn't mentioned
in the installation instructions
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Date: 4/9/2007 10:59 PM
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield |
You beat me to it, Lowell. : ) Plus the fact that if I'm building
storm windows, my "pucker factor" is a WHOLE lot less than when I'm
building an airplane. Different materials, different tools. One size
does not fit all.
Lynn
do not archive
On Apr 10, 2007, at 7:38 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> One thing no one has mentioned yet. The AeroPlastics windsheld is
> Acrylic. It is an entirely different amimal than Lexan. Acrylic
> will crack easily if not treated well. Lexan on the other hand is
> used for break resistant glazing. It has a rubbery consistency and
> will take a lot more abuse than Acrylic. You can form it cold in a
> sheet metal brake. Acrylic will break in a brake :-) and has to be
> heat bent usually with a hot wire.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 1:54 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield
>
>
>>
>> Actually when I first started building, I used to spend a lot of time
>> agonizing about things like this, which are really non-issues.
>> Since I built
>> my Kitfox, I also built an entire set of lexan storm windows for
>> our house
>> and I feel like I've cut and drilled several miles of the stuff
>> (exaggeration)
>> and I have NOT once cracked or splintered any of it. I have even
>> worked
>> with the stuff in the winter. It's really simple. I use a step
>> drill for drilling
>> most of the time, but also I have ground some regular bits. I made
>> a little
>> camper trailer, and cut windows for it with the bandsaw as well.
>> Never
>> any trouble.
>>
>> I've read some many posts between this and the Zenith list over
>> the years
>> you would think it's like working with fine crystal, but it's
>> really not.
>>
>> Actually I think slipping with a dremel and scoring it, is MUCH more
>> likely that the odds of wrecking a piece with a bandsaw.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106107#106107
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff |
I love my UPS guy...well, almost...but when it came time to get a
windshield for my IV, I bought it from LP while at Sun 'n' Fun in '05
but drove to Pennsylvania to pick it up on the way home to Michigan.
The way they packaged that thing and handled it gave me a primer for
how I later handled it...with extreme care!
Lynn
do not archive
On Apr 10, 2007, at 11:40 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> --- GENTRYLL@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Now we are understanding the problem. The original
>> "glass" that comes with
>> a Kitfox kit is Lexan. If you have to order a
>> replacement from LP Aero it
>> will be acrylic. I had 4 shipped to me before I
>> received one that UPS could not break.
>
> I just retired from UPS. When I made my side door
> glass it took me 5 trys to have 2 that did not crack.
> Must be something in the UPS training.... :-(
>
> Kurt
>
>
> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff |
The way they finally got it there without breaking it was to fill the bottom
of the box with expanding foam and then stuck the windshield in it while it
was still in the liquid form. The rest of the box was filled with paper. I
think my serial number is 1378.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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| Subject: | Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke Rotax |
The slide valve piston in the Bing 54 Carb has a tang with a little window on the
manifold side that hangs lower in the venturi by a few milimeters than the
air cleaner side of the piston does. At full throttle should that tang be completly
up out of the venturi?
The instructions I have say adjust it so that the slide valve is completly at the
top of the venturi. The drawing along with the instructions shows the air
cleaner side completly at the top of the venturi but the tang hanging down a couple
milimeters into the venturi. How are some of you running?
Tom Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106241#106241
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Don,
One of my tanks is leaking bad enough that I don't use it and removed
the lines to avoid using it. I don't know if it cracked or was eatened
by ethanol. I've never had to use ethanol, but the previous owner did.
When I got the airplane, the tanks appeared to be weeping. While
disabling the tank, and pulling out the quantity indicator, I looked
into real good with a light under the tank. It looked like the was
"divots" or just like if you poured gas on strofoam type of texture on
the bottom of the tank, and pushing from underneath, was soft. So I am
assuming it is damage from ethanol. I have considered what I'll do
when/if the other tank fails. Currently, I have a 3 gal plastic header
tank (was a chemical applicator tank) and a 14 gal fiberglass wing tank.
99.9% of my flying is local, so I try not to keep fuel in the wing when
it's not being used. I typically land with fuel only in the header,
and I refuel with as much as I think I'll need before going flying.
Larry
Message 8
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Group,
I have been fighting a weard problem with my rotax and thought I would relay so
far what I have found.
First off I've had issues with the left carb flooding out whenever I would remove
the bowl, hit and miss that it would flood out when I started after repairs.
been going on as long as I can remember.
second problem has been an over rich system, black out the exhaust and all over
the bottom of the plane.
Recently I've been trying to correct the rich mixture, which I account for sinking
floats. I also started having problems with an engine miss when at full throttle
after removing the bowls and cleaning out the carb with carb cleaner.
I took the badly sinking float and put it in a miny oven at about 80degrees to
try and get the fuel out. Good idea, but maybe not, after about 15 minutes I
checked the float and it was on the bottom of the oven with holes blown out throughout
the float, bummer, I ordered a whole new set of floats, but they weren't
gonna be here for 5 days, I ordered on friday with 3 working days for ship.
Now what am I gonna do, you see I have this addiction that I need to satisfy,
fly every day, sometimes twice.
So I researched and found JB weld is fuel proof. So I smeard quick JB on all the
eareas that blew out. walla, I have a float, in fact it floated better than
the rest. I installed and on take off the engine started farten and buckin.
After much trial and error I finally got it to do it on the ground. I hit
the mags and turned off the fuel. Removed the left carb and found the float I
fixed was stuck on the bottom. Rats, no flying until wednesday, crap.
Well I am a deep thinker and one thing I did notice on the left carb is the pin
that holds the float was missing a piece on the bottom, the only way to discribe
it is it looks like a pop rivet with out the shank. Last night I pulled the
bowl and really wanted to fix the float sticking problem. So I took an aluminum
pop rivet that I found in my tool box at the hanger that looked the right
size and knocked the pin out and walla the thing slid down the shaft, except
it was a little long, so I took a file and filed the end a little to match the
other stops on the other pins. I installed the float and It wouldn't catch
on the bottom. Being 7:30 at night I rushed to put the cowls back on and made
it to the runway at 7:45, about 15 minutes after sunset, you sport pilots would
have had to wait till the next day. I run the engine up, worked great, got
clearance and shot up in the air, ran good with no miss, flew another 20 minutes
without any problem.
Landed and could see that I'm still runing rich, so I hope the new floats help
out. I also have a vibration off idle, I think that might be from the rich condition.
But the heavy miss at wide open throttle and my flood out at times after
removing the bowls is fixed.
kitfoxmike
912ul
model 4 speedster
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106258#106258
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield - Fluff |
Ok, all you old hens. Next time I WON'T use my bandsaw. I'll use my
acetylene torch to cut the stuff!
Same old list stuff, 100 different ways to slow yourself down.
:)
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106268#106268
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield |
You are right ,but I think there is probably some variation with
brands,but don't really know. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: fox5flyer
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield
I think whether it's Lexan or Rhino, it's still polycarbonate. My
second windshield on my M2 was by Manchester, also polycarbonate.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Huntley
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield
What ser # was yours? Mine is (I think) 1805. We must be pretty
close together. Sounds like whatever polycarbonate was available is what
was used. I stress relieved mine and it was in place about 2 yrs ago w/
400 hrs when it became so scratched and rough that I changed it. I found
some Rhino locally and used it again. Wonder if there is much
difference? Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: GENTRYLL@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield
My kit was a 1992 and it had Lexan written on the paper. My
windshield broke from the tight radius bend at the end of the spar on
top down a line at maximum curvature on both sides to the bottom. In
each case it broke in the garage while I was in the back working on the
header tank behind the seat. During installation, I did not stress
relieve with heat as was later reccommended to me as it wasn't mentioned
in the installation instructions
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Date: 4/9/2007 10:59 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield |
What a bunch of sissies! This stuff is NOT so difficult. Ship your windows
to me, I'll cut them for you. :)
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106275#106275
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield |
Larry sez:
>What ser # was yours? Mine is (I think) 1805. We must be pretty
>close together.
Mine original Model IV was serial number 1803 and it came with Lexan.
Mike G.
N728KF
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My control response goes away, and feels like it's gone at the 20 degree
notch. I've heard it is possible to stall a flaperon at extreme deflection.
I think that sounds like a foolish way to land a Kitfox. :)
Cheers,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106276#106276
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Jeff,
I agree, full flaps on my 4 reduces aileron control, period. I'm a control freak
when flying and any reduction in control scares me. Another note, when I get
a cross wind at my airport, it's not a steady wind, if it comes in from the
north there is a 800ft hill and the wind can get pretty squarly, you need all
the aileron you can muster for the sudden and abrubt changes, sometimes you get
mild sheer winds, where you drop out. If it comes in from the south, it's
very choppy and you can get whirlwinds. You have a bunch of hangars. Again you
need full aileron control for the sudden changes that can happen without any
notice and you need to correct for a sudden wing drop, at 10 ft off the ground
this can get the fluids flowing real good. I usually only have 20 percent of
my flaps on when landing at most, and that's with calm winds. Any other time
I will use them to slow and then remove them after I'm slowed down. Take off,
I just don't need them, I get off real quick without them.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106280#106280
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
At 07:25 AM 4/11/2007, you wrote:
>Landed and could see that I'm still runing rich, so I hope the new
>floats help out.
I enjoyed your entertaining post. You're quite the nut but it sounds
like you get the job done. :-D I wonder, though, why do you think the
new floats will affect the mixture? (I understand they will if they
sink, as in they will flood the engine, but I never knew that you
could actually change the mixture with them.)
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
Well, I guess because the fuel in the bowls are runing high this will cause a richer
mixture, simple carb function. I use to see this in auto engines all the
time, what fixed the problem was fuel injection.
I'm glad I entertain people on this network.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106300#106300
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
guy,
try to understand the carb here, no you're not effectively richening the mixture,
as far as the needles are concerned. But what is happening is the fuel is
high in the bowl, any vibration, any off center, would cause fuel to go over the
top of the bowl and go into the intake of the engine. Thus richin the mixture.
Why do you think they have a float level adjustment. When I removed the
bowl after turning off the fuel the level was right up there.
I've run this engine for 500 hrs and had good burn, now it's running rich, I haven't
changed anything. So I want to get rid of the known variable, the floats
and then start changing settings after that. It already has new needles, arms,
and pins.
Sorry you think I'm a nut.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106304#106304
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| Subject: | Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield |
That is interesting. I wonder how many different brands they used. Mine is a
4-1200. Is yours also? Can't remember when but seems like Aug 92.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:15 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trimming Acrylic Windshield
>
> Larry sez:
>
>>What ser # was yours? Mine is (I think) 1805. We must be pretty close
>>together.
>
> Mine original Model IV was serial number 1803 and it came with Lexan.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
>
>
> --
> 10:44 PM
>
>
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| Subject: | KF IV 1050/582 for sale |
Hi all
I have for sale my KF IV/1050/582 N registration, with Transponder,Comm, Strobe
,Intercomm, IVO in flight adj prop, ELT, all eng instruments, 220 hrs.
Includes professional trailer.
Aircraft is in very good condition
Will pay half the shipping costs from Switzerland.
Price US$ 27000.-
Call me off list for pictures :
chrigra@gmx.ch
regards
Christoph
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| Subject: | Kitfox 5 Flight tests |
After three days of flight testing my Kitfox 5 Vixen, 912 UL, 68" three
blade GSC @16.5 degrees pitch
I am starting to get some real data to work with.
STATIC PORT - I believe the ASI is not reading correctly. The slow cruise
speeds and very low stall speeds are not likely correct. I have been advised to
disconnect the static port line and test the ASI again.
With static port 5000 rpm = 78 knots (level flight 2000 ft MSL)
5500 rpm = 87 knots "
No static port 5000 rpm = 88 knots "
" 5500 rpm = 100 knots "
*need to test with GPS to see what the true air speed is. To windy/bumpy to
get good results so far.
**note at 5500 rpm the throttle is about 3/4 in, it would run well over 6000
rpm if pushed to full throttle, I think there is a lot of horsepower not
being used at cruise. The IFA prop (IVO on order) should really help on the
cruise speeds. But at 100 knots right now (pretty good) how much more?
STALL TESTS
with static port clean = 32 knots (1,000# T/O #)
full flaps = 28 knots "
no static port clean = 35 knots "
full flaps = 30 knots "
TACHOMETER TESTS
Tested the tach against an optical tach and found the tach to be reading
around 200 high at idle and 90 rpm's high at 5000 rpm. Not a Rotax tach, not
sure what make it is (no manufacture name).
THRUST TEST
Full throttle static (5200 rpm indicated) produced 420# of thrust.
Mark
Wisconsin
Kitfox Vixen 912 UL (very impressed with this engine)
Avid "B" STOL 582 (great fun airplane)
RV-6A 0-360 (time machine)
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginemaintenance/bingcarbtuning.htm
See above site about carb adjustment. See the small notes about rich/lean
depending on float height.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: bing 64 carb
>
t it sounds
> like you get the job done. :-D I wonder, though, why do you think the new
> floats will affect the mixture? (I understand they will if they sink, as
> in they will flood the engine, but I never knew that you could actually
> change the mixture with them.)
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| Subject: | Re: Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke |
Rotax
Tom,
I adjust my carb heights so when the throttle is fully open and against
the metal to metal stops on the throttle there is about 1/16" slop on the
cables on top of the carbs. This prevents you from slamming the throttle
wide open and placing tension on the small ball on the end of the cable
(carb end). This will put the slides all the way up except for the 1/16"
mentioned. With this setup I'm almost certain that the slides are
completely up and out of the venturi. As I said, this procedure allows the
metal to metal contact at the throttle just before (1/16") reaching the end
of the slide travel.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:37 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Carb slide position at full throttle on a two stroke
Rotax
>
> The slide valve piston in the Bing 54 Carb has a tang with a little window
> on the manifold side that hangs lower in the venturi by a few milimeters
> than the air cleaner side of the piston does. At full throttle should
> that tang be completly up out of the venturi?
>
> The instructions I have say adjust it so that the slide valve is completly
> at the top of the venturi. The drawing along with the instructions shows
> the air cleaner side completly at the top of the venturi but the tang
> hanging down a couple milimeters into the venturi. How are some of you
> running?
>
> Tom Jones
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106241#106241
>
>
>
Message 23
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Larry,
I believe your description of divits and softness is about the first
I've heard. I really don't want it to be the fault of Ethanol for
obvious reasons but can't come up with any other thoughts as to what it
could have caused that. Maybe the original owner soaked the tanks in
MEK for a week to remove Kreem????
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Martin
To: Kitfox-List@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Feul tanks
Don,
One of my tanks is leaking bad enough that I don't use it and
removed the lines to avoid using it. I don't know if it cracked or was
eatened by ethanol. I've never had to use ethanol, but the previous
owner did. When I got the airplane, the tanks appeared to be weeping.
While disabling the tank, and pulling out the quantity indicator, I
looked into real good with a light under the tank. It looked like the
was "divots" or just like if you poured gas on strofoam type of texture
on the bottom of the tank, and pushing from underneath, was soft. So I
am assuming it is damage from ethanol. I have considered what I'll do
when/if the other tank fails. Currently, I have a 3 gal plastic header
tank (was a chemical applicator tank) and a 14 gal fiberglass wing tank.
99.9% of my flying is local, so I try not to keep fuel in the wing when
it's not being used. I typically land with fuel only in the header,
and I refuel with as much as I think I'll need before going flying.
Larry
Message 24
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| Subject: | Kitfox 5 Flight tests |
great info...How did you test your thrust?
mic
>From: RRTRACK@aol.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 Flight tests
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:03:40 EDT
>
>After three days of flight testing my Kitfox 5 Vixen, 912 UL, 68" three
>blade GSC @16.5 degrees pitch
>I am starting to get some real data to work with.
>
>STATIC PORT - I believe the ASI is not reading correctly. The slow cruise
>speeds and very low stall speeds are not likely correct. I have been
>advised to
>disconnect the static port line and test the ASI again.
>
>With static port 5000 rpm = 78 knots (level flight 2000 ft MSL)
> 5500 rpm = 87 knots "
>No static port 5000 rpm = 88 knots "
> " 5500 rpm = 100 knots "
>
>*need to test with GPS to see what the true air speed is. To windy/bumpy to
>get good results so far.
>
>**note at 5500 rpm the throttle is about 3/4 in, it would run well over
>6000
>rpm if pushed to full throttle, I think there is a lot of horsepower not
>being used at cruise. The IFA prop (IVO on order) should really help on the
>cruise speeds. But at 100 knots right now (pretty good) how much more?
>
>STALL TESTS
>with static port clean = 32 knots (1,000# T/O #)
> full flaps = 28 knots "
>no static port clean = 35 knots "
> full flaps = 30 knots "
>
>TACHOMETER TESTS
>Tested the tach against an optical tach and found the tach to be reading
>around 200 high at idle and 90 rpm's high at 5000 rpm. Not a Rotax tach,
>not
>sure what make it is (no manufacture name).
>
>THRUST TEST
>Full throttle static (5200 rpm indicated) produced 420# of thrust.
>
>Mark
>Wisconsin
>Kitfox Vixen 912 UL (very impressed with this engine)
>Avid "B" STOL 582 (great fun airplane)
>RV-6A 0-360 (time machine)
>
>
>************************************** See what's free at
>http://www.aol.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Fine Dining & Fancy Food. Check Out This Collection Of Good Eats.
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cidD6BDB4586E357F!378
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 5 Flight tests |
I used a 440# fish & game scale from Fleet & Farm. Cost was around $30. I
attach a chain to the airplane and my bumper hitch and put the scale near the
hitch leaving a safety section of chain under the scale. On a taildrager I put
the tail wheel up on a ramp so it is in level flight position to get a more
accurate reading. And always have a pilot at the controls in case something
breaks free.
I have been using it for years to test prop pitch and make sure the engine
is running well after maintenance.
Mark
Wisconsin
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
Thanks Don,
Good read. I went out to the airport and installed my floats. I didn't run the
engine to check floats, but I did make sure the arms set straight out when pushed
against the needle lightly. I installed the bowl and turned on the fuel,
waited and waited and then removed the bowl and had an exceptable level, about
half inch from top. Not sure if this measurment is for the 64 as well or not.
Replaced spark plugs and went flying. Did much better, I would say 80percent.
Still a small amount of vibration off idle, but exceptable. Will do more
adjustments, maybe turn in the idle mixture a little, calibrate the two carbs,
see what I get.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106348#106348
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
Did you check the blades which might cause the vibration. I had one blade
on a GSC that slipped just a tad and caused vibration. Also, check the two
carb slides are in sync. A quick and dirty way is open the slides gently
until a smooth socket will just gently slip into opening. Check the other
carb at the same time and adjust one or the other with the top cable adjust.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans@qwest.net>
would say 80percent. Still a small amount of vibration off idle, but
exceptable. Will do more adjustments, maybe
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
Pardon me folks. I don't think I read the carb post's too well. My
comments were about the Bing 54 carbs not 64. I'm not familiar with the
64's at all.
Sorry,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans@qwest.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 4:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: bing 64 carb
had an exceptable level, about half inch from top. Not sure if this
measurment is for the 64 as well or not.
Message 29
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| Subject: | =?iso-8859-1?Q?CCI_VG's_on_the_Avid_Flyer_STOL? |
CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL
This is a report of my findings using CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL
wing aircraft.
Background:
The aircraft is an Avid Flyer TD STOL wing with a Rotax 582, 3:1
gearbox, Culver 74x48 prop. Built according to the kit/plans with no
modifications except for "Grove" landing gear. (heavier) Published
allowable center of gravity is 11.185 to 16.5. This aircraft was at
13.5". Designed stall speed at approximately 900lbs in flight weight is
32.5 mph.
The landing characteristics of this airplane were such that in order
to affect a comfortable flare, power and additional speed was required
beyond what I consider to be normal. In addition, there was
insufficient nose up trim available on approach. On take-off, it was
evident that the wings could fly sooner, but the airplane would not lift
off. The tail could not be brought up before lift off speed, and would
take off quicker from the 3-point attitude. The stall characteristics
were such that when the airplane was gradually slowed to minimum speed,
the airplane would sink, well above the designed wing stall speed. (Not
with standing of course that indicated airspeed is most inaccurate at
high angle of attack) The wing would not "break" at the stall, as most
wings will. When the nose of the aircraft was "lobed" up and speed was
allowed to bleed rapidly, the wing would exhibit traditional stall
characteristics. It was determined that the elevator was not working
sufficiently.
After discussion with the designer of the aircraft, the center of
gravity was moved to the published aft limit of 16.5" with the assurance
that the aircraft was tested well beyond the published limit. For
reasons of liability at that time, the published limit was set very
conservatively. The aircraft was tested beyond 19.0", which can be
safely used. (37% mac) The change in center of gravity helped
considerably, but still not sufficient. Further to the designer's
recommendation, the elevator area was increased approximately 15% by
extending the elevator aft. There is no room physically to change the
horizontal stabilizer angle of incidence. Short of making a new one,
modifications were complete.
The flying characteristics at this point were much improved as
measured by the following: A much shorter take off ground roll, the
tail could be raised on take off with full flaps; almost sufficient
elevator trim was available on approach with full flaps; and power off,
full flap approaches could be safely made at normal speeds. The stall
characteristics were similar, but at a slower indicated airspeed.
Almost content with the airplane, but still not to the standard of
performance that I thought it was capable of. I followed the studies
of vortex generators.
In the pursuit of finding the truth of if and how VGs would enhance
performance, I read many studies and opinions. Some say that they help,
others called it snake oil, etc. Art at CCI
(http://www.vortexgenerator.net) was not in a hurry to sell me anything,
but offered me aerodynamic and physics proofs and rebuttals. To say
that he was patient is a huge understatement. Finally, he managed to
overcome my skepticism, and I ordered a set with a money back guarantee.
Art was first concerned about getting more lift from the tail, and we
placed the VGs per his instructions on the flat surfaced (non airfoil)
horizontal stab.
The results of the VGs on the stab were nothing short of incredible
and better result than the sum of what was done before this point. The
tail was now producing more lift at all angles of attach. Subjectively,
the tail felt more "alive". The take off run was even shorter, with the
tail coming off the ground with the application of power. The increase
of lift was objectively measured by comparing the neutral trim, hands
off, level altitude minimum speed with and without the VG's on the tail
surface. A 10mph slower speed could hold level altitude with the VGs
on. This was a dramatic increase in tail effectiveness. So much so,
that I was able to remove 5# of ballast and move the CG .80" forward
and have the same control feel. The stick position was physically
further forward at all speeds, thus proving the elevators were working
more effectively. The trim was effective at approach speed even with
the cg further forward. (.5" cg change affects a considerable difference
in this aircraft) The stall characteristics were such that the wing
would stall at a higher angle, a noticeably slower IAS, and much more
aft stick movement remained during the stall. Art then wanted to test
the effectiveness of stabilizer end plates. There was a small
subjective gain in effectiveness, but no objective, measurable results
could be recorded. Most likely this was due to installation error
inherent in the airspeed system. In addition to the enhanced low speed
qualities, an unexpected gain in normal cruise speed of approximately
11% was attained. The top speed was approximately the same, but this is
due to the large drag caused by the undercamber of the STOL wing. The
airplane reaches a drag point similar to mach drag, in which the
airplane will not accelerate above, or in the case of the Avid Stol, a
disproportional increase in power only yields a minute increase in
speed. It is not practical to fly at this speed. However; in the
normal cruise range with a cruise rpm of 5400 yielded 84 mph with the
vg's on the tail. Without the vgs, the same rpm yielded 74mph. This is
explained by the efficiencies of the tail.
The next step was to install VG's on the wing. Research shows that
there is a wide range of "ideal" or "sweet spot" placement with respect
to percentage of wing cord. Experience gained from others suggest that
in a range from 4% to 12%, one would find that spot. CCI suggested 10%
as a starting point. I initially placed them as per the supplied
directions except I started at 7% and planned to move forward to 4% then
aft to 10% to test the effectiveness. The results of the VG's at 7%
were immediately noticeable. The take-off roll was shorter. In slow
flight, the stall occurred at a much higher angle of attach and the IAS
was 5 mph slower. Again, I caution putting much emphasis in IAS,
especially at high AOA due to position error. There is no argument that
the AOA was much higher than ever before, and the airspeed needle was
slower than previous witnessed. At 75+% power the nose attitude was
extremely high and could remain this way flying at the verge of the
stall. The Avid has "flaperons" which trail the wing. They are always
flying, even in a stall. Therefore a subjective opinion of aileron
control cannot be rendered. The Avid does not spin well and enters into
a spiral instantly, so fast that I choose not to spin. I did fly a spin
series, hoping that due to the higher AOA that was possible, it may
spin. Unfortunately the spin qualities did not change, and with rudder
application and a pivot of the wings, it becomes unstalled and spirals
picking up speed very rapidly. Thus I still don't spin.
There was a gain in airspeed at the high end. It appears that the "stol
wing drag point" was been changed to a higher speed. The old
"aerodynamic drag point" is now easily overcome. I also noticed by way
of control feel, and wing attitude that the center of pressure is moved
forward on the wing. I replaced 5# in the tail to the original CG.
The airplane was designed to be flown STOL. Dean Wilson designed the
flaperons to enhance this ability. I use full flaperons for all take
off and landings. I have landed with complete control in 20+ mph direct
crosswinds with no problems. (grass strip) The VG's do not detract from
landing control nor do they negatively affect any of the flight
characteristics. I am completely satisfied with the VG's and help from
CCI. Due to the satisfaction with the results, and my too busy
schedule, I have not changed the VG placement from 7%. I would still
like to, but it has to take a lower priority for the time being.
Please feel free to contact me for further information. I heartily
endorse CCI VG's (http://www.vortexgenerator.net) if you want to fly the
Avid the way it was made to fly!
Larry Martin
My93Avid@yahoo.com
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
Thanks Don for the carb trick, will check that. On the prop, anything is possible,
I wanted to do the repairs on the engine first before going after the prop.
I was told already to switch two blades and try. I think I'll do that, that
will also make any missplaced prop blade get back in line.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106399#106399
Message 31
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You certainly can to an extent lean out an engine by adjusting the level of
fuel in the float bowls. If the floats float higher the fuel in the bowl
regulates itself lower and there by makes the venturi work harder to get
fuel, thus leaning the engine. This principle works on all kinds of
carburettors except pressure carbs used on some radial engines.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Guy Buchanan
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:42 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: bing 64 carb
>
>
>
> At 07:25 AM 4/11/2007, you wrote:
> >Landed and could see that I'm still runing rich, so I hope the new
> >floats help out.
>
> I enjoyed your entertaining post. You're quite the nut but it sounds
> like you get the job done. :-D I wonder, though, why do you think the
> new floats will affect the mixture? (I understand they will if they
> sink, as in they will flood the engine, but I never knew that you
> could actually change the mixture with them.)
>
>
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
If the engine was running properly before the floats went down like the
Titanic. Then I guess it's reasonable to assume that replacing the floats
will correct your mixture problems. For what a set of floats cost I would
probably replace both sets because the other set is probably just as old as
the set that went south.
I'm sorry you're not a nut
You may consider me a "Wing Nut"
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kitfoxmike
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 2:36 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: bing 64 carb
>
>
> <customtrans@qwest.net>
>
> guy,
> try to understand the carb here, no you're not effectively
> richening the mixture, as far as the needles are concerned.
> But what is happening is the fuel is high in the bowl, any
> vibration, any off center, would cause fuel to go over the
> top of the bowl and go into the intake of the engine. Thus
> richin the mixture. Why do you think they have a float level
> adjustment. When I removed the bowl after turning off the
> fuel the level was right up there.
>
> I've run this engine for 500 hrs and had good burn, now it's
> running rich, I haven't changed anything. So I want to get
> rid of the known variable, the floats and then start changing
> settings after that. It already has new needles, arms, and pins.
>
> Sorry you think I'm a nut.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106304#106304
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: New fuel proof Wing TanksRe: New fuel proof Wing |
TanksRe: New fuel proof Wing TanksNew fuel proof Wing Tanks
About the book, Flying a Kitfox, I just want to read it, not steal it,
or buy a copy from someone who has it or an extra. I would even send
money to hold if someone would let me read theirs, I am trying to learn
all I can, as I about ready to fly my 2-4 with the new Jabiru 2200. Too
much infor is not enough!!! Jerry
And the wingtanks look good on the website.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
Remember, my comments were mistakenly about the Bing 54 not the 64. I don't
know anything about the 912's but on a 582 you need to correct both carbs
and prop at the same time since one will effect the other.
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans@qwest.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: bing 64 carb
>
> Thanks Don for the carb trick, will check that. On the prop, anything is
> possible, I wanted to do the repairs on the engine first before going
> after the prop. I was told already to switch two blades and try. I think
> I'll do that, that will also make any missplaced prop blade get back in
> line.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106399#106399
>
>
>
Message 35
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I have been trying to stay away from this discussion but have found it
necessary to point out a few issues that I do not believe are being
considered.
1 The Kitfox wing was structrually tested with the
current tanks and the tanks ARE part of the wing structure unlike many
other designs where the tank is cradled beneath the surface.
2 The Tank IS part of the airfoil shape of the TOP part
of the wing.
3 It is also part of the Drag/Anti-drag component of the
wing.
Safety of Flight - Kitfox does not endorse or promote the use of aftermarket
tanks for safety of flight issues.
I can go on but those are the highlights
The current tanks (from 1996) have been using different resins then those
prior to 96 and have not been sloshed with anything unless the builder did
it.. There are many, many Kitfoxs flying with these tanks using auto gas
without issues..
I feel most the issues come from letting the fuel sit for extended periods..
is this because of Ethanol or from some of the other additives (solvents)
that gets burned in auto gas (tolulene, acetone, etc) From talking with
some folks that work in refineries it is amazing what legally gets put in
the fuel and because of its low percentages not required to be reported.
What is that same fuel doing inside the carbs and engine seals while sitting
for extended periods ?
Is Ethanol a problem ? We all know it is to some extent but it is an issue
on all kinds of different systems not just tanks.
That all being said.. We have found a product that is reported to be
resistant to solvents and ethanol and does not flake or sheet off We are
actively testing this product and other materials.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon Covering Removal |
To all who responded - thank you.
I started off using heat, but got worried about the foam ribs. The chemical
route worked. I found a gel stripper that had properties close to those
ya'll recommended and it worked. It's from Wal Mart and it took only 15 minutes
to attack the adhesive. Then just lift off pieces, rinse and it's done.
It's a dirty filthy job, but someone has to do it. I guess it's part of the
experience!
Rick
Series V Speedster - N39RW
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL |
At 03:45 PM 4/11/2007, you wrote:
>Art was first concerned about getting more lift from the tail, and
>we placed the VGs per his instructions on the flat surfaced (non
>airfoil) horizontal stab.
Larry,
Thank you for the great report. Where did you place the VG's
on the stab?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: bing 64 carb |
At 10:05 AM 4/11/2007, you wrote:
>But what is happening is the fuel is high in the bowl, any
>vibration, any off center, would cause fuel to go over the top of
>the bowl and go into the intake of the engine. Thus richin the mixture.
I understand. It's not enough to flood, but more than you get via the
jets. How is it getting into the venturi? In the 54 the vent is
overboard and the jets are immersed. There's no other path to the
venturi. Does the 64 have some path to the venturi that's above fuel
level? Or is it that the additional hydraulic pressure of the high
fuel level makes it easier for the venturi suction to pull fuel
through the main and needle jet?
>Sorry you think I'm a nut.
Now don't take it personally; I meant it in a kind way. Your
enthusiasm makes me happy.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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