---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/14/07: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:43 AM - Speeds question: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL () 2. 04:47 AM - Classic IV wing mods (Don Smythe) 3. 04:47 AM - =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A__Kitfox-List=3A_Re=3A_CCI_VG=27s_on_the_Avid_Flyer_STOL? (Darrel Morisse) 4. 05:51 AM - Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Bob) 5. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Clem Nichols) 6. 06:37 AM - Re: Kitfox 5 Flight tests (RRTRACK@aol.com) 7. 07:00 AM - Re: Classic IV wing mods (frank goggio) 8. 07:14 AM - Re: Kitfox 5 Flight tests () 9. 07:22 AM - more on VGs Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL () 10. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Larry Huntley) 11. 11:05 AM - Model 5 STC (Randy Tavishati) 12. 12:09 PM - Re: Kitfox powder coat surface rusting?? (George Michaels) 13. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL (Clem Nichols) 14. 03:11 PM - Re: Classic IV wing mods (Don Smythe) 15. 03:58 PM - Who's goin' to Sun 'n' Fun? (Lynn Matteson) 16. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox powder coat surface rusting?? (Noel Loveys) 17. 06:15 PM - Re: Locktite on spinner bolt. (GONER752@AOL.COM) 18. 06:28 PM - Re: Model 5 STC (Roger McConnell) 19. 06:31 PM - Re: Model 5 STC (dcsfoto) 20. 07:12 PM - Re: Locktite on spinner bolt. (kirk hull) 21. 07:41 PM - Re: Who's goin' to Sun 'n' Fun? (helicop) 22. 08:46 PM - Re: Locktite on spinner bolt. (Randy Daughenbaugh) 23. 10:48 PM - Re: Model 5 STC (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:15 AM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Speeds question: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Larry, Great work on the VG's What are your GPS speed changes while doing these tests ? I have a number of VGs from different manufactures here that I have planned to do testing on and hopefully this spring. My IV flies so darn well as it is with out gap seals or VGs that I have been reluctant to really do much. I do like the speed increase thoughts though. One more thing is what kind of tach are you using ? I have a rotax tach ( which I am about to take out as it is not accurate at all 200 to 800 rpm variations) and a tiny tach. Also I have a fuel flow meter which in combination will help give more accurate testing. One more test you should try is Wide open straight and level before and after. Looking forward to more results and some of my own. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Martin To: fox5flyer@idealwifi.net Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Deke, The cruise speed remained +10 with the vgs on the wing. I usually cruise (stol wing - no where to go) at 5400 rpm (582/3:1 box) and I always had a comfortable 74 ias. Now, I can hold 74 with only 4900-5000 rpm. Setting 5400 puts it at 85 ias, but with the stol wing, the drag is already starting to build at this speed. The gain in speed comes from the tail now doing its job, and allowing the wing to do its. Larry ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:44 AM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Kitfox-List: Classic IV wing mods I have a person that is interested in clipping my long wing Classic IV to make it a speed wing. Not for speed but to get it in his garage. Has anyone ever done this to a finished Kitfox? I can walk the process through in my mind and it doesn't look like it would be that difficult. I can't remember for sure but I don't think the internal wing bracing extends to the last rib so that would not be an issue. Seems like, cut with a razor blade all around at the next rib, hack the spar/trailing edge and reattach the wing tip with a little bit of Poly Fiber finishing tape/paint. Job done in a day or two. Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:58 AM PST US From: "Darrel Morisse" Subject: Kitfox-List: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A__Kitfox-List=3A_Re=3A_CCI_VG=27s_on_the_Avid_Flyer_STOL? --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL From: "Bob" Great report Larry! Guy - HStab VGs typically go on the lower surface, but knowing that doesn't really help you. The height, angle, shape, %chord location, and spacing all play a part and those are the proprietary details. VG's aren't that expensive to try and there are multiple suppliers who sell them in both plastic and metal. From there, it gets into all sorts of claims about what is best and I'm glad Larry found what works for him. Bob -------- Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106861#106861 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:57 AM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Ditto that message, Deke. My EA81 powered model IV is nose-heavy, and even with the gaps on the tail sealed and a 5 pound lead ballast on the tail spring I still have difficulty doing soft 3-pointers even with the stick all the way back. I'm wondering if VG's on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer wouldn't help that as well as my cruise speed.. Clem Nichols Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Darrel Morisse To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:47 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Thanks Larry. I have a S5 so the wings are different than yours. I've been hesitant to start gluing VGs all over the wings until I could see results from others who have already done the trials. I just don't have the time. This is what is good about your report. Would it be fair to say, in your opinion, that just using them on the bottom side of the HZ would see a benefit? Mine is the airfoiled type. I don't want to put any on the wings until I see what happens on the HZ. Deke -----Original Message----- From: "Larry Martin" Sent 4/13/2007 1:10:31 PM To: fox5flyer@idealwifi.net Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Deke, The cruise speed remained +10 with the vgs on the wing. I usually cruise (stol wing - no where to go) at 5400 rpm (582/3:1 box) and I always had a comfortable 74 ias. Now, I can hold 74 with only 4900-5000 rpm. Setting 5400 puts it at 85 ias, but with the stol wing, the drag is already starting to build at this speed. The gain in speed comes from the tail now doing its job, and allowing the wing to do its. Larry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:10 AM PST US From: RRTRACK@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 Flight tests All tests were done at 2500 MSL, 40 degrees OAT, and around 1000# take off weight. Today the winds are forecast at 5 mph so I should be able to find the correct air speeds using my GPS. My new IVO IFA did not arrive so I will have to wait to test it. I may try changing the pitch on the 68" GSC and see what it is capable of. Also will be adding a oil thermostat when I change the oil and filter this weekend. In outside temperatures under 60 degrees the oil temps never gets over 180 degrees. Takes a long time to warm up the oil to 120 degrees for take off as well. Oil pressure around 58# at cruise. Mark Wisconsin Kitfox 5 Vixen 912 UL ( VG's are next after the new IVO IFA Prop ) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:40 AM PST US From: "frank goggio" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Classic IV wing mods don.I had a model 4-1200 that I did this to, I cut the outboard rib bay off each side with a hacksaw,.could not tell any difference as to take off performance, actually handled better to me,speed increased,would roll much better,did not float as much on landing,then again I took most of the washout in the tips out and most of the dihedral out,would roll nearly as fast as a Pitts s2, this was with a 80 hp rotax with warp drive prop,i liked the plane,don't have it now,driving a rv6a now but keep up with the list, frank goggio Fayetteville nc I have a person that is interested in clipping my long wing Classic IV to make it a speed wing. Not for speed but to get it in his garage. Has anyone ever done this to a finished Kitfox? I can walk the process through in my mind and it doesn't look like it would be that difficult. I can't remember for sure but I don't think the internal wing bracing extends to the last rib so that would not be an issue. Seems like, cut with a razor blade all around at the next rib, hack the spar/trailing edge and reattach the wing tip with a little bit of Poly Fiber finishing tape/paint. Job done in a day or two. Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:09 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 Flight tests Mark, A friend of mine on this list have a piece of plastic like lexan over his oil cooler with hole s drilled in it. He says it works great . He has same on his radiator. If Jim reads this he might tell you more about the hole sizing and spacing. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: RRTRACK@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 5 Flight tests All tests were done at 2500 MSL, 40 degrees OAT, and around 1000# take off weight. Today the winds are forecast at 5 mph so I should be able to find the correct air speeds using my GPS. My new IVO IFA did not arrive so I will have to wait to test it. I may try changing the pitch on the 68" GSC and see what it is capable of. Also will be adding a oil thermostat when I change the oil and filter this weekend. In outside temperatures under 60 degrees the oil temps never gets over 180 degrees. Takes a long time to warm up the oil to 120 degrees for take off as well. Oil pressure around 58# at cruise. Mark Wisconsin Kitfox 5 Vixen 912 UL ( VG's are next after the new IVO IFA Prop ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:00 AM PST US From: Subject: more on VGs Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Clem, I have tried VGs once putting them an inch ahead of the hinge line on the bottom of the horiz stab. I was on floats and was trying to tease the elevator into thinking it was larger like the super cub guys do. To be honest i never found much differance at all that I remember. The reason I did this is when on Aerocet Amphibs the plane was siiting about zero AOA on wheels and it was harder to get it to rotate. On water it was fine sitting at 3 degrees. I think for anyone who wants to try it is 100$ well spent and we can all learn from them. I do have Harrison Vg;s here - http://www.landshorter.com/ and I have feathers VGs here from http://www.stolspeed.com/ and they have had great success with them. I would like to try them both and find out how they actually work. mine is a IV pics and movies here http://www.cfisher.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Clem Nichols To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Ditto that message, Deke. My EA81 powered model IV is nose-heavy, and even with the gaps on the tail sealed and a 5 pound lead ballast on the tail spring I still have difficulty doing soft 3-pointers even with the stick all the way back. I'm wondering if VG's on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer wouldn't help that as well as my cruise speed.. Clem Nichols Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Darrel Morisse To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:47 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Thanks Larry. I have a S5 so the wings are different than yours. I've been hesitant to start gluing VGs all over the wings until I could see results from others who have already done the trials. I just don't have the time. This is what is good about your report. Would it be fair to say, in your opinion, that just using them on the bottom side of the HZ would see a benefit? Mine is the airfoiled type. I don't want to put any on the wings until I see what happens on the HZ. Deke -----Original Message----- From: "Larry Martin" Sent 4/13/2007 1:10:31 PM To: fox5flyer@idealwifi.net Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Deke, The cruise speed remained +10 with the vgs on the wing. I usually cruise (stol wing - no where to go) at 5400 rpm (582/3:1 box) and I always had a comfortable 74 ias. Now, I can hold 74 with only 4900-5000 rpm. Setting 5400 puts it at 85 ias, but with the stol wing, the drag is already starting to build at this speed. The gain in speed comes from the tail now doing its job, and allowing the wing to do its. Larry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:05 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Clem, My plane is pretty much the same bird w/ the same characteristics. Where are you located Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY ----- Original Message ----- From: Clem Nichols To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Ditto that message, Deke. My EA81 powered model IV is nose-heavy, and even with the gaps on the tail sealed and a 5 pound lead ballast on the tail spring I still have difficulty doing soft 3-pointers even with the stick all the way back. I'm wondering if VG's on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer wouldn't help that as well as my cruise speed.. Clem Nichols Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Darrel Morisse To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:47 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Thanks Larry. I have a S5 so the wings are different than yours. I've been hesitant to start gluing VGs all over the wings until I could see results from others who have already done the trials. I just don't have the time. This is what is good about your report. Would it be fair to say, in your opinion, that just using them on the bottom side of the HZ would see a benefit? Mine is the airfoiled type. I don't want to put any on the wings until I see what happens on the HZ. Deke -----Original Message----- From: "Larry Martin" Sent 4/13/2007 1:10:31 PM To: fox5flyer@idealwifi.net Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Deke, The cruise speed remained +10 with the vgs on the wing. I usually cruise (stol wing - no where to go) at 5400 rpm (582/3:1 box) and I always had a comfortable 74 ias. Now, I can hold 74 with only 4900-5000 rpm. Setting 5400 puts it at 85 ias, but with the stol wing, the drag is already starting to build at this speed. The gain in speed comes from the tail now doing its job, and allowing the wing to do its. Larry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 4/13/2007 8:04 PM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:06 AM PST US From: "Randy Tavishati" Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 5 STC A question for you technical guys. Is there an STC that allows you to increase the gross weight on a model 5 from the early 1,400 pound gross to 1,550 which was in the later model? Thanks, Randy ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:36 PM PST US From: George Michaels Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox powder coat surface rusting?? Good useful Info by everyone! Of course not what I wanted to hear. All the wood for speed wing and other areas are epoxied in-place as well as most things assembled aft of the the fire wall. So do I trash everything or is there a way to remove epoxy with out destroying the attachments? George Well stated Jerry. The only thing I would like to add is rusting usually requires an electrolyte like water or even water vapour. Ferrous metals kept in a really dry location (say Nevada) won't rust without the aid of a humidifier in the hangar. With any miniscule amount of moisture in the air and microscopic cracks in the powder coat filiform corrosion will creep under the "good" coating. The sooner corrective action is taken the better. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Jerry Liles > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 2:48 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox powder coat surface rusting?? > > > > A powder coat works to prevent rusting by providing a barrier > to Oxygen > . It otherwise has no antirust capabilities such as is provided by > chromate epoxy paints. If powder coat is applied over rust, > or is too > thin, or incomplete, or the barrier is broken rust will > progress quite > happily beneath the powder coat. The only thing you can do is remove > the powder coat, remove the rust, apply a phosphate > conversion coating > to take care of any residual corrosion in pits, and paint with a > corrosion inhibiting paint. > > Jerry Liles ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:54 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL On I-65 in Central Kentucky, about 20 miles from Mammoth Cave National Park, if that helps. Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Huntley To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Clem, My plane is pretty much the same bird w/ the same characteristics. Where are you located Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY ----- Original Message ----- From: Clem Nichols To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Ditto that message, Deke. My EA81 powered model IV is nose-heavy, and even with the gaps on the tail sealed and a 5 pound lead ballast on the tail spring I still have difficulty doing soft 3-pointers even with the stick all the way back. I'm wondering if VG's on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer wouldn't help that as well as my cruise speed.. Clem Nichols Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Darrel Morisse To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:47 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Thanks Larry. I have a S5 so the wings are different than yours. I've been hesitant to start gluing VGs all over the wings until I could see results from others who have already done the trials. I just don't have the time. This is what is good about your report. Would it be fair to say, in your opinion, that just using them on the bottom side of the HZ would see a benefit? Mine is the airfoiled type. I don't want to put any on the wings until I see what happens on the HZ. Deke -----Original Message----- From: "Larry Martin" Sent 4/13/2007 1:10:31 PM To: fox5flyer@idealwifi.net Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CCI VG's on the Avid Flyer STOL Deke, The cruise speed remained +10 with the vgs on the wing. I usually cruise (stol wing - no where to go) at 5400 rpm (582/3:1 box) and I always had a comfortable 74 ias. Now, I can hold 74 with only 4900-5000 rpm. Setting 5400 puts it at 85 ias, but with the stol wing, the drag is already starting to build at this speed. The gain in speed comes from the tail now doing its job, and allowing the wing to do its. Larry href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 4/13/2007 8:04 PM ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:12 PM PST US From: "Don Smythe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Classic IV wing mods To All, I need your assistance. This morning I asked about clipping my long wings back to the Speedster configuration. Frank answered that he had actually done that and reported nothing but good news. I started wondering if we might not be talking apples and oranges. Frank had a 912 and I have a 582. Can I expect the same good news as was Franks case with the 912? I have agreed to sell my airplane to an individual that wants the wings clipped primarily so he can keep it in his garage. I have also agreed to perform the work since he is not familiar with any of the processes. Now, I want everybody to throw some opinions at me about doing this with a 582 engine. I certainly don't want to kill a perfectly good airplane by performing the speedster mod. Does anyone fly a 582 with the speedster mod? Please contact me off list with some information and specs. Thanks and Desperate, Don Smythe ----- Original Message ----- From: frank goggio To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:01 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Classic IV wing mods don.I had a model 4-1200 that I did this to, I cut the outboard rib bay off each side with a hacksaw,.could not tell any difference as to take off performance, actually handled better to me,speed increased,would roll much better,did not float as much on landing,then again I took most of the washout in the tips out and most of the dihedral out,would roll nearly as fast as a Pitts s2, this was with a 80 hp rotax with warp drive prop,i liked the plane,don't have it now,driving a rv6a now but keep up with the list, frank goggio Fayetteville nc I have a person that is interested in clipping my long wing Classic IV to make it a speed wing. Not for speed but to get it in his garage. Has anyone ever done this to a finished Kitfox? I can walk the process through in my mind and it doesn't look like it would be that difficult. I can't remember for sure but I don't think the internal wing bracing extends to the last rib so that would not be an issue. Seems like, cut with a razor blade all around at the next rib, hack the spar/trailing edge and reattach the wing tip with a little bit of Poly Fiber finishing tape/paint. Job done in a day or two. Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:17 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: Who's goin' to Sun 'n' Fun? Anybody going to S&F? I'm heading out on Monday morning, with expectations of taking two days for the trip...1026 statute miles from lower Michigan. A friend with a just-purchased 1963 Cessna 150 is going as my wingman...sort of. : ) The weather looks good for Monday all the way down to Fla, with 20-25 mph tailwinds forecast for 3000 and 6000 feet. By the way, I made a full-load (camping gear, fuel etc.) trial run on Friday, and with a tailwind of about 30 mph, saw 150 mph GPS groundspeed...OK,OK, so I did point it downhill a tiny little bit, just to see that number. :) If anybody wants to get together down there, I'm planning to camp in the Homebuilt Camping (HBC) area. It'll be my first attempt at a major fly-in, and I've got the 36-page(!) NOTAM all printed out and edited out the fluff down to about 21 pages. Deke, I'll give you a holler before I go, unless I forget in the excitement. Lynn Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200 do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:21 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox powder coat surface rusting?? Epoxy is a resin. You may be able to release it with careful use of heat. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Michaels Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 4:39 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox powder coat surface rusting?? Good useful Info by everyone! Of course not what I wanted to hear. All the wood for speed wing and other areas are epoxied in-place as well as most things assembled aft of the the fire wall. So do I trash everything or is there a way to remove epoxy with out destroying the attachments? George Well stated Jerry. The only thing I would like to add is rusting usually requires an electrolyte like water or even water vapour. Ferrous metals kept in a really dry location (say Nevada) won't rust without the aid of a humidifier in the hangar. With any miniscule amount of moisture in the air and microscopic cracks in the powder coat filiform corrosion will creep under the "good" coating. The sooner corrective action is taken the better. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of > Jerry Liles > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 2:48 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox powder coat surface rusting?? > > > > A powder coat works to prevent rusting by providing a barrier > to Oxygen > . It otherwise has no antirust capabilities such as is provided by > chromate epoxy paints. If powder coat is applied over rust, > or is too > thin, or incomplete, or the barrier is broken rust will > progress quite > happily beneath the powder coat. The only thing you can do is remove > the powder coat, remove the rust, apply a phosphate > conversion coating > to take care of any residual corrosion in pits, and paint with a > corrosion inhibiting paint. > > Jerry Liles ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:40 PM PST US From: GONER752@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Locktite on spinner bolt. Rex, Most "lead" pencils today are actually graphite. I am not personally aware of aluminum corrosion being caused by drawing on it with a pencil, but then, what I know is always subject to correction or education.:-) Regards, Greg G. 375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:20 PM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 5 STC Not sure but I think STC's only applied to certified aircraft. Jon McBean maybe able to answer your question on increasing the gross weight, if it's even possible. Roger Mac _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Tavishati Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 5 STC A question for you technical guys. Is there an STC that allows you to increase the gross weight on a model 5 from the early 1,400 pound gross to 1,550 which was in the later model? Thanks, Randy ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:11 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Model 5 STC From: "dcsfoto" you do not need an STC. STCs only apply to aircraft that have type certificates talk to john at Kitfox he will tell you what you need to have a safe airplane Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106972#106972 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:12 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Locktite on spinner bolt. All I know about it is that in A&P school it was strictly forbidden to use a pencil on any aircraft aluminum but that was about 15 years ago. Also when doing inspections at the airline we would look to be sure that no one was using a pencil. _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GONER752@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:15 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Locktite on spinner bolt. Rex, Most "lead" pencils today are actually graphite. I am not personally aware of aluminum corrosion being caused by drawing on it with a pencil, but then, what I know is always subject to correction or education.:-) Regards, Greg G. 375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive _____ See what's free at AOL.com . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:30 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Who's goin' to Sun 'n' Fun? From: "helicop" I am on my way there. I am sitting in my camper in a WalMart parking lot tonight in Jax, but I will be there in the campground on Monday. If you come in the campground, I have a Montana Travel Trailer and a Ford F250 White Pickup, both with Montana license plates. Say hey if you are near and we will be glad to wet your whistle or feed you. Gary Goss Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106987#106987 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:20 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Locktite on spinner bolt. Hey, there must be a metallurgist out there. I always thought it was that the graphite scratched the oxide surface off of the aluminum and left a spot for corrosion. But why would that be worse than scratching the oxide off with a scotch brite pad? Cause water or salt can displace the graphite? I really don't know. Or is it just an old wives tale? Randy - looking for enlightenment. . _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:12 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Locktite on spinner bolt. All I know about it is that in A&P school it was strictly forbidden to use a pencil on any aircraft aluminum but that was about 15 years ago. Also when doing inspections at the airline we would look to be sure that no one was using a pencil. _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GONER752@aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:15 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Locktite on spinner bolt. Rex, Most "lead" pencils today are actually graphite. I am not personally aware of aluminum corrosion being caused by drawing on it with a pencil, but then, what I know is always subject to correction or education.:-) Regards, Greg G. 375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive _____ See what's free at AOL.com . ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:49 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 5 STC At 11:04 AM 4/14/2007, you wrote: >A question for you technical guys. Is there an STC that allows you >to increase the gross weight on a model 5 from the early 1,400 pound >gross to 1,550 which was in the later model? The other posters are right. STC's only apply to certified aircraft. You can, as the builder, specify any gross weight you want. Now as to the structural mods required to go from Skystar's 1400 pound gross to 1550 pound gross you're asking a questing hashed out several times this year with, as I recall, no definitive answer. I certainly wish someone could find definitive design information for these aircraft. It would be a shame if it all just disappeared. John, did you get Skystar's and Denney's design information when you purchased the assets? Is such information available? Can we put together definitive information regarding the design changes to go from 1050 to 1200 for the IV, and from 1400 to 1550 for the V? Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.