Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:35 AM - Re: Identification and spares for amphib floats (Michael Laundy)
2. 05:13 AM - 582 2 stroke oil useage (Don Smythe)
3. 05:30 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage ()
4. 05:37 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage (Don Smythe)
5. 05:48 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage ()
6. 06:05 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage (Clem Nichols)
7. 06:31 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage ()
8. 09:16 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage (Guy Buchanan)
9. 09:31 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage (Don Smythe)
10. 09:44 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage (Don Smythe)
11. 11:26 AM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage (Guy Buchanan)
12. 02:48 PM - Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage (Noel Loveys)
13. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: cabin doors (Noel Loveys)
14. 06:29 PM - Re: Re: cabin doors (GONER752@aol.com)
15. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: cabin doors ()
16. 08:40 PM - Re: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods (rez)
17. 11:07 PM - Re: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Identification and spares for amphib floats |
Dave,
Many thanks for the info, and also thanks to the other guys who replied. I have
got a box of bits and pieces with the floats and seem to have most of the
hardware. I guess the bullwheel is the bit which goes under the pilot's seat and
connects to the retract lever. The only bit which seems to be missing is the
connection between the retract lever and the bull wheel.
If you have a photo of how yours is set up that would sure help. Also if you
can let me know if there are any particular problems in setting up the retract
mechanism.
I now have the web address of Matco, and I am pretty sure I can get what I need
from them to refurbish the wheels and brakes.
I would also be interested to see what strengthening you put on the nose wheel
castoring as it looks like a weak area. If you could send me a picture of that
it would be great.
Many thanks
Mike
davef@cfisher.com wrote:
Hi Mike,
Your floats are Aerocet 1100s.
Aerocet has ZERO to do with these anymore. Parts are scarce but your brakes
are Matco if same as mine. There is a guy that bought the Old stock and has
it for sale but I not sure name.
I can find out the info it you like. Do you have all the gear retract hardware
?
I made all of mine and the bullwheel and they are a great float.
Nosewheels on them were wheelchair wheels 1.75 x 7" if i recall. I have solid
rubber 6 inch wheel for nosewheels and I have welded the SS casters up with
additional bracing.
The nose gear wheels will limit you to the size of nosewheel that will fit as
well as they are narrow. They will serve you well if you look after them.
I probably have over 500 landings on grass runways alone so that may of helped
mine take more of a beating than some .
There are a great aerodynamic float compared to a draggy full lotus and you should
have a blast with them.
Hope this helps and welcome to the wonderful world of float flying with Amphibs
:)
I enclosed a pic of my IV Kitfox on them at my dock .
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Laundy
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 6:32 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Identification and spares for amphib floats
I am enclosing a photo of my amphib floats which I am refurbishing with the intention
of fitting them on my Kitfox mk 3. Can anyone identify the floats and
maybe give me the address of the manufacturer, or put me in touch with anyone
who may be able to supply spares. There is no manufacturing plate on the floats,
the only ref no I can find is
1100AM-02L-0492 stencilled inside the port float (I guess that refers to the
buoyancy)
The brake manufacturer is "MATCO MFG SLC UT" I will need a new set of pads,
and seals for the caliper.
Other bits needing replacing are the nose wheels, and some cabling (which I can
probably get made locally).
If anyone has a similar set of floats I would greatly appreciate any info on
how to set up the controls for the retraction of the gear, and maybe photos of
the set up.
many thanks
Mike
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Message 2
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| Subject: | 582 2 stroke oil useage |
I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per hour.
Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per hour. Anybody have
a close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don Smythe
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
Don,
A rotax 582 oil injection will use about 70 to 1 average.
I think the highest it uses it 50 to 1 under full throttle.
That help ? Still no oil bottle ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per hour.
Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per hour. Anybody have
a close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don Smythe
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
I'm looking for the actual amount of oil used not ratio's. For instance
1/2 pint per hour. I just can't find the number or get my brain
working.
The oil tank is on the way from John.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: davef@cfisher.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
Don,
A rotax 582 oil injection will use about 70 to 1 average.
I think the highest it uses it 50 to 1 under full throttle.
That help ? Still no oil bottle ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per
hour. Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per hour.
Anybody have a close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don Smythe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
Well since you American you might not understand litres ?
500 mil to 25 litres
in US talk about 2 cups 16 oz to about 6 gallons US
that close ?
and that is about 50 to 1 ratio
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I'm looking for the actual amount of oil used not ratio's. For
instance 1/2 pint per hour. I just can't find the number or get my
brain working.
The oil tank is on the way from John.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: davef@cfisher.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
Don,
A rotax 582 oil injection will use about 70 to 1 average.
I think the highest it uses it 50 to 1 under full throttle.
That help ? Still no oil bottle ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per
hour. Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per hour.
Anybody have a close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don Smythe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
Don:
Assuming that you use roughly 4.5 gallons of fuel per hour of which 1/70
is oil (based on a 70:1 average ratio), it figures that you will be
using about 9 ounces of oil per hour.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I'm looking for the actual amount of oil used not ratio's. For
instance 1/2 pint per hour. I just can't find the number or get my
brain working.
The oil tank is on the way from John.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: davef@cfisher.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
Don,
A rotax 582 oil injection will use about 70 to 1 average.
I think the highest it uses it 50 to 1 under full throttle.
That help ? Still no oil bottle ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per
hour. Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per hour.
Anybody have a close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don Smythe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
Clem ,
You are right if you have fuel flow gauge to confirm .
Mine runs 18 to 23 ltires per hour = 4.5 to 6 us gal a hour. I wil
guess 60 to 70 to a ratio there
Wide open it burn 29 to 30 lt/hour = 7 to 7.5 gal a hour.; i will
guess 50 to one ratio here
Simple enough. If you not sure . just use pre mix.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Clem Nichols
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
Don:
Assuming that you use roughly 4.5 gallons of fuel per hour of which
1/70 is oil (based on a 70:1 average ratio), it figures that you will be
using about 9 ounces of oil per hour.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I'm looking for the actual amount of oil used not ratio's. For
instance 1/2 pint per hour. I just can't find the number or get my
brain working.
The oil tank is on the way from John.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: davef@cfisher.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
Don,
A rotax 582 oil injection will use about 70 to 1 average.
I think the highest it uses it 50 to 1 under full throttle.
That help ? Still no oil bottle ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per
hour. Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per hour.
Anybody have a close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don Smythe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
At 05:12 AM 4/20/2007, you wrote:
>I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per
>hour. Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per
>hour. Anybody have a close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don,
From hours 38 to 70 I kept accurate count of fuel and oil
usage. During that period I averaged 2.2 hours per flight from a
towered field and used, on average, 4.2 gph 100LL and 0.58 pph oil,
for a ratio of 58:1. However, during my trip to Ft. Worth, (from San
Diego, CA,) my average fuel use over 30.4 hours was 4.46 gph 100LL
and 0.71 pph oil, for a ratio of 50:1. I did not calculate an average
leg length for the Ft. Worth trip, but it was probably much closer to
4 hours per flight, with much less taxi and idle time. Thus the lower
oil ratio for the Ft. Worth trip.
During the Ft. Worth trip I tried to keep the RPM at or
below 5900, which I estimated to be 75% power based on running at 90%
of max speed, which I checked periodically during the trip. (There is
a cubic relationship between power and speed.) My average speed was
89 mph over about 2681 statute miles, for a mileage of 19.8 mpg of
100LL. (I had tailwinds the whole way. The distance was estimated,
not GPS actual.)
I carry 27 gallons of fuel, for an estimated fuel endurance
of 6.1 hours. I have the two liter Nalgene oil bottle which gives me
an estimated oil endurance of 6.0 hours. I start to get worried at 4
hours and have never flown over 4.5 hours on a tank. (It's too
disconcerting to watch the fuel slosh to nothing on the sight gauges!)
For the Ft. Worth trip I launched with a full case of oil,
(about 25 pounds,) and used all but two. It's a damn shame to use so
much payload but that's the price we pay for being cheap!
Hope this helps,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
Guy,
Excellent report. Got way more information than I asked for.
Thanks,
Don Smythe
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Buchanan
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
At 05:12 AM 4/20/2007, you wrote:
I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per
hour. Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per hour.
Anybody have a close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don,
From hours 38 to 70 I kept accurate count of fuel and oil
usage. During that period I averaged 2.2 hours per flight from a towered
field and used, on average, 4.2 gph 100LL and 0.58 pph oil, for a ratio
of 58:1. However, during my trip to Ft. Worth, (from San Diego, CA,) my
average fuel use over 30.4 hours was 4.46 gph 100LL and 0.71 pph oil,
for a ratio of 50:1. I did not calculate an average leg length for the
Ft. Worth trip, but it was probably much closer to 4 hours per flight,
with much less taxi and idle time. Thus the lower oil ratio for the Ft.
Worth trip.
During the Ft. Worth trip I tried to keep the RPM at or below
5900, which I estimated to be 75% power based on running at 90% of max
speed, which I checked periodically during the trip. (There is a cubic
relationship between power and speed.) My average speed was 89 mph over
about 2681 statute miles, for a mileage of 19.8 mpg of 100LL. (I had
tailwinds the whole way. The distance was estimated, not GPS actual.)
I carry 27 gallons of fuel, for an estimated fuel endurance of
6.1 hours. I have the two liter Nalgene oil bottle which gives me an
estimated oil endurance of 6.0 hours. I start to get worried at 4 hours
and have never flown over 4.5 hours on a tank. (It's too disconcerting
to watch the fuel slosh to nothing on the sight gauges!)
For the Ft. Worth trip I launched with a full case of oil,
(about 25 pounds,) and used all but two. It's a damn shame to use so
much payload but that's the price we pay for being cheap!
Hope this helps,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
Guy,
You just reminded me of something I once noticed and mentioned on
the list (long time ago). I'm going to suggest that maybe not all of
your 2 liter oil tank is "useable" oil. Just something to keep in mind.
The 582 oil pump system is supposed to be gravity fed only. Whether
the pump has the capability of lifting oil or not, I don't know. In my
installation I placed a bullet level from the pump inlet over to the
poly oil tank with the tail wheel on the ground (worst case). The
bullet level hit the oil tank up almost 3" from the bottom (can't
remember exactly). To me, that means the last 3" of oil in that tank is
below the point where gravity is doing it's job. Say you are flying
along and get to the 3" level and every thing is still fine. Land,
lower the tail and you just lost oil to the pump.
This is just something to add to the list of things to think about.
Don Smythe
>>I carry 27 gallons of fuel, for an estimated fuel endurance of 6.1
hours. I have the two liter Nalgene oil bottle which gives me an
estimated oil endurance of 6.0 hours. I start to get worried at 4 hours
and have never>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 582 2 stroke oil useage |
At 09:44 AM 4/20/2007, you wrote:
>The 582 oil pump system is supposed to be gravity fed only. Whether
>the pump has the capability of lifting oil or not, I don't know.
In the spirit of finding out I am now looking for a working 582 oil
pump I can beg or borrow to do some testing. Anyone having one or
guessing someone else might have one please let me know off line.
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | 582 2 stroke oil useage |
@ 4 U.S. gal / hr. just a shade over one cup per hour (.267qt/hr) 60:1
Close to 7 fl.oz./hr.
@ 5 U.S. Gal./Hr. (wide open) almost right on 1/3 of a quart I think
your
quart is 28 Fl.oz. so that would be around 9 fl.oz. / hr.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I'm looking for the actual amount of oil used not ratio's. For instance
1/2
pint per hour. I just can't find the number or get my brain working.
The oil tank is on the way from John.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: davef@cfisher.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
Don,
A rotax 582 oil injection will use about 70 to 1 average.
I think the highest it uses it 50 to 1 under full throttle.
That help ? Still no oil bottle ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe <mailto:dosmythe@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 2 stroke oil useage
I can't seem to recall how much 2 stroke oil the 582 pumps per hour.
Looking for a ball park average for taxi/flight per hour. Anybody have
a
close average number based on some actual flight testing.
Don Smythe
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 13
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Ok now I have the pictures.
The installation was done with two small pieces of angle. I used some
metal (about .032") which I bent into angle. The angle is is held to
the
cross tube behind the pilot and to the frame of the back of the door. I
put
the strut on the back of the door because I fly floats and have to enter
from the front. The angle extrusions are slotted With a Dremel tool
right
at the angle to allow them to be mounted on the tubes with small gear
clamps. Every thing is out in the open where it is easy to inspect.
Surprisingly none of the four gear clamps have loosened at all. The
brackets have a hole drilled in them which the ball end of the two ball
and
socket ends is bolted through.
The height of the bracket on the door is important. It should be higher
than the distance of the lower bracket form the door closed position to
give
an over centre positive close to the door when the door is pulled down.
The position of the door bracket is set to allow an almost a full
closure of
the strut while closing the door.
This strut is 9 in. long, 10.5 in over all and has the ball and socket
joints with the balls at both ends. I got this strut from a local
salvage
yard and have no idea what it came out of. I'm sure you can find the
complete unit at an automotive supply shop if you don't have a salvage
yard
you can browse.
The next picture is a close up of the bracket on the cross tube. It
strut
ball is mounted far enough into the plane so as not to interfere with
the
operation of the door.
I put this on my door as occasionally I like to fly and always taxi with
the
door open. If the salvage yard had two of these struts I would have
installed both of them. It has worked well for the past year or so so I
guess the next thing to do is paint the brackets to make them look as if
they belonged there.
I'm far from a fortune teller but I do see another trip to the salvage
yard
for me in the near future.
Removing the door is easy as there is a little metal clip that holds the
socket of the strut over the ball. I just have to make sure to keep the
clips with the strut.
Clear as Mud??
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of xfire
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:55 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors
>
>
> <leonard.perry@acsalaska.net>
>
> [quote="Float Flyr"]I put one on the pilot side without
> drilling any holes.... I'll send a couple of pictures tomorrow.
>
>
>
> Noel
> >
> > --
>
>
> Noel, can you please send the pics to me also
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107902#107902
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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Noel,
Thanks for posting the pic's. I've been wanting to strut the doors, but
really couldn't imagine any mounts pop riveted to tubing lasting against the
forces of the struts.Good job.These are keepers for me.
Greg G
375KL
Mod 2
582
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 15
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Greg,
I don't have lift struts but just a clip on each door and i can fly with
one or both doors half open or full open.
There it really no force at all on them.
"pop rivets" can be extremely strong depending on the rivet and the
install .
Many many planes are made of alum and " pop rivets " only.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: GONER752@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors
Noel,
Thanks for posting the pic's. I've been wanting to strut the doors,
but really couldn't imagine any mounts pop riveted to tubing lasting
against the forces of the struts.Good job.These are keepers for me.
Greg G
375KL
Mod 2
582
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| Subject: | Re: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods |
I'm a longtime lurker, this is my first post. I would like to put my KF2 in the
garage for long term storage, two or three months. It won't fit, but it seems
like it would be pretty easy to remove the wings. Are there any special tricks
to removing the wings, or is it just finding enough people to hold it up
while I remove the bolts.
Jim
N9065F
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods |
Jim,
I think you have a handle on it already from your post. Disconnecting the
fuel lines and electrical if any would be the first step. The removal
would be essentially the reverse of the initial wing installation. As I
recall, I made a tee support for the outboard end so the bolt holes would
remain concentric. Another suggestion would be to remove the bolts one at a
time and replace them with a pin punch of smaller diameter so the guys
lifting wouldn't have to lift for so long a time. The pin punches could be
lifted out quickly,just at the time of removal.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "rez" <rrr.cavu@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods
> I'm a longtime lurker, this is my first post. I would like to put my KF2
> in the garage for long term storage, two or three months. It won't fit,
> but it seems like it would be pretty easy to remove the wings. Are there
> any special tricks to removing the wings, or is it just finding enough
> people to hold it up while I remove the bolts.
>
> Jim
> N9065F
>
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