---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/22/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:29 AM - Re: Rotax 532 vs HKS 700E (stratusavid) 2. 04:15 AM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Lynn Matteson) 3. 05:31 AM - Re: Who's goin' to Sun 'n' Fun? (Michael Logan) 4. 05:42 AM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Bob) 5. 08:42 AM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Guy Buchanan) 6. 11:08 AM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Lynn Matteson) 7. 12:26 PM - 582 Oil leak? (Jack L Bell) 8. 12:59 PM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Michel Verheughe) 9. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Lynn Matteson) 10. 04:49 PM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (wingnut) 11. 06:17 PM - Re: 582 Oil leak? (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 12. 06:38 PM - Re: 582 Oil leak? (Guy Buchanan) 13. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Lynn Matteson) 14. 07:16 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 04/21/07 (charles cook) 15. 07:29 PM - Kitfox With A Vair Update (Norm) 16. 08:20 PM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (wingnut) 17. 08:26 PM - Re: Kitfox With A Vair Update () 18. 11:54 PM - "Florida" Trip (John Allen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:37 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 532 vs HKS 700E From: "stratusavid" Mike has a great website covering the conversion of his Avid Flyer to the HKS. He is very happy with it. http://www.dairyaire.net/HKSa/hks.htm Dean [quote="thesupe(at)hotmail.com"] There is a Mike Ricketts on either this list or the Yahoo Avid list that has a HKS in either a Kitfox or an Avid if I'm not mistaken. Thanks, Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108423#108423 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:27 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My "Florida" trip...off topic What does the COMM-1 PC software cover? I'm using a Mac, and most software is geared to PC's/IBM's, unless you're talking a DVD. I've got the Sporty's Recreational Course on DVD, which has a LOT of weather training included. This trip to Florida was going to be my brush up before I attempt to fly to California in late May. I guess I learned what I don't know...or didn't apply. I guess I was just too rattled to think of using a slip at 9,000 feet. I was concerned about getting it down, and I had never used a slip except for during landings at approx. 60 mph. I did make sure I got it under Va just to be sure the control surfaces weren't going to rip off. When the bouncing began I was right at 108mph, and slowed from there to a controlled descent...well, as controlled as much as I could. I too find the following of chart features a game, and enjoy doing it. I guess I was more concerned with keeping the other plane in sight, and thus relied more on the GPS for direction. In hindsight, it would have better to not have a traveling partner, then I would have been left to my own resources, would have marked the chart with more checkpoints, made that call to FSS, and probably would have been told about a turbulent AIRMET...nope, no briefing...probably relying on the more experienced other pilot who hasn't owned his own plane in over 9 years, and hasn't done all that much flying lately. When I mentioned calling FSS and filing a flight plan, he reminded me we were just flying VFR...big mistake to accept that as an answer. When I look back on it, I've flown more hours in the past 10 months than he probably has in the past 4-5 years. I should have known better, and now I do, I hope. Lynn do not archive On Apr 22, 2007, at 1:34 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > At 12:25 PM 4/21/2007, you wrote: >> I would have preferred to just go around the areas that >> required radio contact...at least until I have confidence in my radio >> manners and expertise. > > Best thing I ever did for radio work was buy and use the COMM-1 PC > software for VFR flight. I still use it to brush up before a big > cross-country. I also do preparatory cross countries before big > cross countries. In the preparatory I do everything I would do on > the long one, but do it all in one hour. > >> There was no way in hades that I was going to slip at that altitude, >> or under those turbulent conditions. > > A slip would not be unsafe if you were flying at less than > maneuvering speed, Va, which I assume you were doing, given the > conditions. > >> Using the charts was problematic >> at best in Kentucky, because of the wide separation between towns, >> landmarks, whatever, and also the lack of good N-S and E-W section >> lines. > > I had a good friend teach me pilotage in the wilds of Wyoming. It > is amazing what you can identify on a chart and how you can cross- > correlate that information to find your location. If you ever get a > chance to do a mountain check-out, make sure the instructor helps > you with this. You can often quite easily identify mountain > geometry, stream and dry beds, lakes, and man-made objects > sufficient to identify your location. When I flew to Ft. Worth from > San Diego I used pilotage exclusively until I got to west Texas, > where it became so flat I started to rely more on the GPS. Even > then I kept a close track on where I was on the chart and made it a > game to identify landmarks and locate them and myself. > >> Before I go on another trip, I'll learn more about weather, and what >> conditions cause what, and be better prepared to observe what I'm >> getting into, and make a decision earlier as to when to go down, or >> stay down 'til another day, or 'til conditions improve. > > I can't remember, did you get a full weather briefing from Flight > Service before departure? If so, did they mention a turbulence AIRMET? > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:07 AM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Who's goin' to Sun 'n' Fun? I forgot my towel, what a pain. Had to get someone to take me in to town to a Wal-Mart. Weather was wonderful but not many Kitfoxs there. I flew down from Virginia with a neighbor in his Air Cam, boy was it COLD. Did I mention that it was cold? Mike Logan -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Who's goin' to Sun 'n' Fun? I'da forgot the lotion, Kurt...thanks. More than the weather, it's all the other things to remember...charts, batteries for the gadgets, a towel, W & B sheets.... Lynn do not archive On Apr 15, 2007, at 5:18 PM, kurt schrader wrote: > > > I'll probably drive in on Wednesday only. Too busy > right now to stay longer. Bring my cell phone, if > anyone wants to get together. > > (502)648-5484 > > Enjoy your trip Lynn! Ya' might need shorts, a hat > and sun lotion. Things hard to remember when it is > still cold out up there. > > Kurt S. S-5 > > Do not archive > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:27 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic From: "Bob" Lynn - Sounds like you had a a great adventure, even if you didn't get to Lakeland! Slips work, but I learned in a jump plane that if you want to come down fast, crank it over into a steep bank, relax the back pressure, and watch the airspeed. The descents can get scary fast IF you want them to, because not as much of the wing is lifting upward. Again, be careful of how fast the airspeed builds and keep it in the green arc. No reason to skirt using the radio or airports with traffic. The worst are SunNFun and Oshkosh which have lots of traffic and while I know that you'd memorized the 30+ pages of procedures, you ought to be able to use the radio. An ATC person will be saying stuff like "Pink Avid go to XXX" and you need to realize he's talking to you, not an Avid, while two other airplanes pass so close you can see the faces of the occupants. Even there isn't hard, it's just the difference between walking alone toward a goal versus in a crowd of strangers. You'll be loads more relaxed if you do pattern work with other planes this summer. Also, I don't think I've ever had a problem with a FSS on the radio, at least after getting them (contact can be tough sometimes.) Bob do not archive -------- Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108438#108438 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:11 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My "Florida" trip...off topic At 04:18 AM 4/22/2007, you wrote: >What does the COMM-1 PC software cover? I'm using a Mac Comm1 is software that helps you learn radio protocol. It uses scenarios to teach you the content and form of a radio exchange on the ground and in the air. For each scenario it first teaches you what the radio exchange should look like, it then puts you through a small multiple choice test to ascertain your knowledge of content, and asks you to make the aircraft replies using a PC headset. You then assess your form by listening to yourself, and comparing with how the "expert" sounds. I have found the scenarios to accurately simulate real radio situations and have therefore benefited greatly by it. Happy news! I checked the website, http://www.comm1.com/home.html, and found that Comm1 operates on Mac or PC! I purchased "Comm1 VFR" since that's all I do. I can't speak for their other products. By the way I'm glad everything turned out well for you and that it has turned into a learning and not debilitating experience. As a fairly recent pilot I well remember how scary the first excursions out of the nest can be. I'm still learning, and still regularly test my heart rate. Take care, Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:29 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My "Florida" trip...off topic Thanks, Guy...wow, somebody actually made software for the Mac..unbelievable. I'll check it out. By the way, I flew past Battle Creek, MI airport today (BTL), and the ATIS guy was reading so fast I could hardly make out when he left one subject and turned to another. I got curious and timed his delivery... 11.9 seconds. His "wind" description was: one-niner-zero-zero-niner- zero....no "at" in the description. I had to listen about ten times to get the information. I tuned in the tower frequency and there was no traffic to speak of. Why do they think they have to rattle off those numbers so damn fast that it takes multiple listenings to get all the numbers? Are they making an audition tape for a job at O'Hare? There was a guy at Jackson, MI (JXN) that was that way and they got so many complaints that he's no longer there....probably went to BTL! Lynn do not archive On Apr 22, 2007, at 11:36 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > At 04:18 AM 4/22/2007, you wrote: >> What does the COMM-1 PC software cover? I'm using a Mac > > Comm1 is software that helps you learn radio protocol. It > uses scenarios to teach you the content and form of a radio > exchange on the ground and in the air. For each scenario it first > teaches you what the radio exchange should look like, it then puts > you through a small multiple choice test to ascertain your > knowledge of content, and asks you to make the aircraft replies > using a PC headset. You then assess your form by listening to > yourself, and comparing with how the "expert" sounds. I have found > the scenarios to accurately simulate real radio situations and have > therefore benefited greatly by it. > Happy news! I checked the website, http://www.comm1.com/ > home.html, and found that Comm1 operates on Mac or PC! I purchased > "Comm1 VFR" since that's all I do. I can't speak for their other > products. > By the way I'm glad everything turned out well for you and > that it has turned into a learning and not debilitating experience. > As a fairly recent pilot I well remember how scary the first > excursions out of the nest can be. I'm still learning, and still > regularly test my heart rate. > > Take care, > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:09 PM PST US From: Jack L Bell Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil leak? I hadn't flown my fox in a bit, and on visiting the hangar, noted a bit of oil under the plane. Something new? It appears as though the 2 cycle oil is making it through the rear carb, soaking the air filter, and dripping on through. This is a gray head, ~160 hours. No sign of oil in the coolant, and the oil pump bottle is right on the mark. It's not a lot of oil, maybe a 1/2 oz. or so, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. It's been a month since I flew her, and that's the longest it's ever been.. has anyone seen this before? Thanks, -Jack ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:28 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My "Florida" trip...off topic On Apr 22, 2007, at 3:25 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > Later, on the return trip, I did tune into ATC frequency, so I could > hear first-hand the directions. I think it was a wise decision, Lynn. With only 250 hours as a pilot, I have little advice to give anyone. But I have nearly a life time with the maritime GOC radio license and have been for years a keen radio amateur, using all kind of communications. The "fear of the microphone" (and the keyer when you start Morse) is quite common. You pretty quickly overcome it. My advice to anyone is: Talk to ATC and fly with a flight plan for three reasons: safety, safety and safety. If you want, put "student" in the Remarks field of your flight plan. If you don't understand, say: "say again" as many times as needed. Radio communication courtesy says that no one should send faster than what is understood from the other side. In Norway, English is the ATC language. Some pilots don't feel too comfortable with the English vocabulary. If not understanding, pilots are advised to talk Norwegian, or anything else that could make sure instructions are understood for the three above-mentioned reasons. As a pilot, you only have to remember two things: Read-back and your callsign. Incidentally, I have heard a SAS training tape (actually a cockpit voice recording) from an approach to O'Hare. Scary! But then, we seldom dwell in those airspaces with our Kitfoxes. ... Here is a good one from Rod Machado's book: A pilot visits for the first time an airfield: Tower: - "Do you have information Hotel?" Pilot: - "Nah, I intend to stay with some friends!" ... ;-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:57 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic Thanks for the encouragement, Bob. I'm starting to go to busier 'ports, as of Friday. Went to a Class D on that day, and to a fairly busy "restaurant" airport today. Sat with a guy who used to live in New Mexico and he gave me some good advice about flying the western USA...get started early, stop early, and maybe go again later on in the day, if there's a stopping point maybe an hour away from there. He spoke of some of the winds encountered out there...so much that the tie down are made of cable because of the high winds and of course the rotting effect of the sun...boy oh boy, can hardly wait! : ) This airport that I went to was Plainwell, MI (61D) and has a 9-27 paved, and a 1-19 turf. That's the way all airports should be in my estimation...make it a 9-27 if that's the main wind direction, then throw in another runway made of turf, so as to have a choice, but a less-expensive means of building it...just a thought...or what the heck make 'em ALL turf! I agree about getting ahold of the FSS people...sometimes a lengthly wait, and part of the reason that on our recent flight we opted out of the info that we really needed. Lynn do not archive On Apr 22, 2007, at 8:42 AM, Bob wrote: > > Lynn - Sounds like you had a a great adventure, even if you didn't > get to Lakeland! > > Slips work, but I learned in a jump plane that if you want to come > down fast, crank it over into a steep bank, relax the back > pressure, and watch the airspeed. The descents can get scary fast > IF you want them to, because not as much of the wing is lifting > upward. Again, be careful of how fast the airspeed builds and keep > it in the green arc. > > No reason to skirt using the radio or airports with traffic. The > worst are SunNFun and Oshkosh which have lots of traffic and while > I know that you'd memorized the 30+ pages of procedures, you ought > to be able to use the radio. An ATC person will be saying stuff > like "Pink Avid go to XXX" and you need to realize he's talking to > you, not an Avid, while two other airplanes pass so close you can > see the faces of the occupants. Even there isn't hard, it's just > the difference between walking alone toward a goal versus in a > crowd of strangers. You'll be loads more relaxed if you do pattern > work with other planes this summer. Also, I don't think I've ever > had a problem with a FSS on the radio, at least after getting them > (contact can be tough sometimes.) > Bob > do not archive > > -------- > Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108438#108438 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:45 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic From: "wingnut" Lynn, I'm in the same boat when it comes to talking to ATC. I feel like my brain goes out to lunch every time I press the PTT button. One thing that has helped me tremendously is listening to actual ATC traffic on www.liveatc.net. It helped me so much that I downloaded several clips and made a CD that I can listen to on the way to work. One thing I noticed right away is that most commercial pilots do the readback a little different from the text book. Instead of starting with their tail number, they do the readback then end it with the tail number. It seems like a more natural response to me. Luis Rodriguez 824KF do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108521#108521 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:03 PM PST US From: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil leak? A friend of mine has a 582 on a powered parachute that did the same thing. It was a rotary valve shaft seal leaking. Jim >From: Jack L Bell >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil leak? >Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:24:34 -0500 (CDT) > > > >I hadn't flown my fox in a bit, and on visiting the hangar, >noted a bit of oil under the plane. Something new? > >It appears as though the 2 cycle oil is making it through the >rear carb, soaking the air filter, and dripping on through. > >This is a gray head, ~160 hours. No sign of oil in the coolant, >and the oil pump bottle is right on the mark. It's not a lot of oil, >maybe a 1/2 oz. or so, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. > >It's been a month since I flew her, and that's the longest it's >ever been.. has anyone seen this before? > >Thanks, > >-Jack > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John. Enter to win today. http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:16 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil leak? At 12:24 PM 4/22/2007, you wrote: >It's been a month since I flew her, and that's the longest it's >ever been.. has anyone seen this before? I have some oil leaking from the carb side as well. I'm fairly certain it's the injection oil, as the rotary oil looks good. I'm told there's a check valve in the oil pump that can get particulates in it and thereafter pass oil under gravity feed. I'm trying to confirm. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:15 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic Hi Luis- Haven't heard from you for awhile...thanks for responding. The readback first and tail number last seems better to me too. Good idea on the taped/CD'd clips. Maybe I'll tape myself making calls until they become second nature. Lynn do not archve On Apr 22, 2007, at 7:47 PM, wingnut wrote: > > Lynn, I'm in the same boat when it comes to talking to ATC. I feel > like my brain goes out to lunch every time I press the PTT button. > One thing that has helped me tremendously is listening to actual > ATC traffic on www.liveatc.net. It helped me so much that I > downloaded several clips and made a CD that I can listen to on the > way to work. One thing I noticed right away is that most commercial > pilots do the readback a little different from the text book. > Instead of starting with their tail number, they do the readback > then end it with the tail number. It seems like a more natural > response to me. > > Luis Rodriguez > 824KF > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108521#108521 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:08 PM PST US From: charles cook Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 04/21/07 HKS engine Mike look on Barnstomers.com experimental classifieds and you will find a couple of HKS operators on model II aircraft. One of them was a conversion from a 582 engine. Charles Kitfox-List Digest Server wrote: * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-04-21&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-04-21&Archive=Kitfox =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/21/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:10 AM - My "Florida" trip...off topic (Lynn Matteson) 2. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: cabin doors (kirk hull) 3. 05:44 AM - Re: Re: cabin doors (Lynn Matteson) 4. 05:46 AM - Re: Re: cabin doors (Larry Huntley) 5. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: cabin doors (Noel Loveys) 6. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: cabin doors (Guy Buchanan) 7. 06:36 AM - Re: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods (Guy Buchanan) 8. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: cabin doors (Noel Loveys) 9. 06:49 AM - Re: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods (Tom Jones) 10. 07:39 AM - Rotax 532 vs HKS 700E (Mike) 11. 07:53 AM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Michel Verheughe) 12. 09:13 AM - Re: Rotax 532 vs HKS 700E (kurt schrader) 13. 10:21 AM - Re: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods (Guy Buchanan) 14. 10:46 AM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (dcsfoto) 15. 10:46 AM - Re: Rotax 532 vs HKS 700E (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 16. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: cabin doors (kirk hull) 17. 11:57 AM - Re: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods (Dacha) 18. 12:26 PM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Lynn Matteson) 19. 02:21 PM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Michel Verheughe) 20. 06:22 PM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Lynn Matteson) 21. 10:44 PM - Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:11 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: My "Florida" trip...off topic Off topic, other than telling how GREAT a plane the Kitfox is in saving one's bacon during less-than-perfect flying conditions. This is a description of my recent attempt to fly to the Sun 'n' Fun Fly-in, held in Lakeland, Florida. A friend, Nihl, was flying in his own plane, a very nice 1963 Cessna 150. I was flying my own Kitfox Model IV Speedster with a Jabiru 2200 engine for power. We left the Napoleon, MI airport (3NP), at 7:30 am local time, last Monday, and flew the 230 statute miles to Sporty's Pilot Shop at Batavia, OH, in 96 minutes. Along the way I was showing 108mph Indicated airspeed, while my GPS was showing 177mph ground speed...we had a 70 mph tailwind! Nearing Dayton, Ohio's airspace, Nihl called to notify ATC that we wished to transit their airspace, saying we were a flight of two. The controller could not locate a flight of two, and we discovered that Nihl's transponder did not transmit. I was asked to squawk 0346, which I did and the controller told us that my transponder worked, but his did not. Still not being real comfortable with use of the radio, I was letting Nihl handle the radio chores, while I became the designated transponder operator. ( I was handling my own "self-announce" at the untowered airports) Landing at Sporty's was a bit tricky, as the wind was almost a direct crosswind, but both planes landed ok. We spent about an hour at Sporty's, Nihl buying charts and fuel...I did not need fuel. During our stopover at Sporty's, the wind increased, and became more of a direct crosswind, and I was nervous about taking off using the regular runway. I asked for permission to use what I found out was called "high-speed turnoffs" for part of my takeoff "runway". This was granted, so I taxied onto the normal taxiway, turned around, and started out, using about 50 feet of the normal taxiway, turning left onto the high-speed turnoff which is at 45 degrees to the taxiway and the main runway, and crossing the main runway, I lifted off with an approximately 45 degree crosswind. This worked out quite well for me. Nihl, with his heavier plane, used the runway with no problems. My flight instructor had told me before I left that since I was used to following section lines as part of my Michigan-based VFR navigation procedures, that I would not find a recognizable section line in Kentucky, and he was right. Suddenly there were no more straight lines to follow, just curves, and hills and wandering rivers. I had my chart and my GPS, so navigation was no problem. Nihl called and told me we were clear to fly at 5500 feet elevation, which became too bumpy, so I asked him to ask for permission to go to 7500, which was granted. Minutes later, he called to say "Lynn, go to 5500 feet IMMEDIATELY!" I did, and it turned out traffic was the reason for the command. A few minutes later the traffic was gone...whatever it was...and we were cleared to go back up to 7500. It was getting very bumpy, and I could see puffy clouds coming up, and avoided then, but could feel the bumps as they passed by. Seeing a bank of clouds that I wanted to avoid, I climbed even higher...we were no longer under the jurisdiction of the ATC by this time. I was getting closer to the ridge of clouds, and was at 9500 feet, close to my Sport Pilot-mandated ceiling of 10,000 feet, and could see that I was not going to make it over the clouds even if I bent the rules "for safety", so I decided to head down. All this last 10 minutes or so, the turbulence was getting greater, and as I descended, I was getting hammered, and Nihl came on the radio and said he was going to land, pointing out an airport below. I had the airport in sight, and was thinking the same thing. I was well into the yellow band of my airspeed indicator, and had to flatten out the descent to keep the speed down into the green, even though this meant spending more time getting bounced around. At one point I noticed that my GPS had lost power, due to the cigar lighter power supply becoming loose due to the vibration, bouncing, bumping, and slamming around that the plane was getting. I had to circle the field to try and find the windsock, and saw that it was straight out and at a 90 degree angle to the left side of the runway, and I saw no other choices for landing. I came in with left wing down as much as I could try to hold it there, and the plane was really getting tossed. The left wheel made contact, bounced a bit, and the left wing came up, slamming the right wheel down with the plane starting to point to the left. I got lucky as hell that the plane didn't groundloop, or cartwheel or anything else. I got stopped pointing into the wind at the left side of the runway, completed the rest of the turn to the left and back taxied off at the first turnoff and pulled the plane up to a closed hangar for shelter from the wind. I got out to assess the damage, and found that the right wheel pant was slightly damaged due to the tire being flexed sideways (during that hard hit) and grabbing the fairing and causing the fairing to be pulled into and bent upwards, inside the pant, and dragging on the tire. I unscrewed the fairing and left it off and tied the plane down with help from a guy at the airport. During this time, Nihl was trying to get down, and on his third attempt was successful. We later discovered that we had landed at Scott County Airport (SCX), near Oneida, Tennessee. More later on what a great facility, and great people they have down there. In retrospect, I'm surprised that the tire didn't roll off the rim. I have tubeless tires with no tubes, and even though there are good deep bead retention grooves in the wheels, I'm tempted to put tubes in them if for nothing other than making it easier....if I can find tubes with bent stems....to check tire pressure. Next: Staying at the airport, making decisions, and getting back. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:33 AM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors My classic 4 came with the strut mounts as part of the kit but I did not know it was safe to open the doors in flight. Do a lot of people open them in flight or just leave them open when taking off. _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors Ok now I have the pictures. The installation was done with two small pieces of angle. I used some metal (about .032") which I bent into angle. The angle is is held to the cross tube behind the pilot and to the frame of the back of the door. I put the strut on the back of the door because I fly floats and have to enter from the front. The angle extrusions are slotted With a Dremel tool right at the angle to allow them to be mounted on the tubes with small gear clamps. Every thing is out in the open where it is easy to inspect. Surprisingly none of the four gear clamps have loosened at all. The brackets have a hole drilled in them which the ball end of the two ball and socket ends is bolted through. The height of the bracket on the door is important. It should be higher than the distance of the lower bracket form the door closed position to give an over centre positive close to the door when the door is pulled down. The position of the door bracket is set to allow an almost a full closure of the strut while closing the door. This strut is 9 in. long, 10.5 in over all and has the ball and socket joints with the balls at both ends. I got this strut from a local salvage yard and have no idea what it came out of. I'm sure you can find the complete unit at an automotive supply shop if you don't have a salvage yard you can browse. The next picture is a close up of the bracket on the cross tube. It strut ball is mounted far enough into the plane so as not to interfere with the operation of the door. I put this on my door as occasionally I like to fly and always taxi with the door open. If the salvage yard had two of these struts I would have installed both of them. It has worked well for the past year or so so I guess the next thing to do is paint the brackets to make them look as if they belonged there. I'm far from a fortune teller but I do see another trip to the salvage yard for me in the near future. Removing the door is easy as there is a little metal clip that holds the socket of the strut over the ball. I just have to make sure to keep the clips with the strut. Clear as Mud?? Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of xfire > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:55 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors > > > > > [quote="Float Flyr"]I put one on the pilot side without > drilling any holes.... I'll send a couple of pictures tomorrow. > > > > Noel > > > > -- > > > Noel, can you please send the pics to me also > > Thanks > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107902#107902 > > > ========= > Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ========= > bsp; available href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:45 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors I've opened mine in flight , but only at or about 50mph. Lynn p.s. The installation of the struts is a lot cleaner if using the pre- made parts probably available from John McBean. My parts came with my kit. The mounting "angles" are actually a piece of tubing with the mounting flange welded on (you can make these if you can weld), then cut lengthwise. The roundness of the tubing gives a better contact with the door frame. On Apr 21, 2007, at 7:57 AM, kirk hull wrote: > My classic 4 came with the strut mounts as part of the kit but I > did not know it was safe to open the doors in flight. Do a lot of > people open them in flight or just leave them open when taking off. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:42 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors MessageMy 4 Has no struts,but the doors fly in the up position when open in flight. It is a long reach over nothing to reach out and close the left one ,but if you slip a bit it will come down and close by itself. You just have to latch it. I usually don't open it til after takeoff as the wheels throw stuff on the glass. I guess it wouldn't make any difference if you are flying off dry pavement. Larry Huntley 4-1200 ----- Original Message ----- From: kirk hull Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 7:57 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors My classic 4 came with the strut mounts as part of the kit but I did not know it was safe to open the doors in flight. Do a lot of people open them in flight or just leave them open when taking off. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors Ok now I have the pictures. The installation was done with two small pieces of angle. I used some metal (about .032") which I bent into angle. The angle is is held to the cross tube behind the pilot and to the frame of the back of the door. I put the strut on the back of the door because I fly floats and have to enter from the front. The angle extrusions are slotted With a Dremel tool right at the angle to allow them to be mounted on the tubes with small gear clamps. Every thing is out in the open where it is easy to inspect. Surprisingly none of the four gear clamps have loosened at all. The brackets have a hole drilled in them which the ball end of the two ball and socket ends is bolted through. The height of the bracket on the door is important. It should be higher than the distance of the lower bracket form the door closed position to give an over centre positive close to the door when the door is pulled down. The position of the door bracket is set to allow an almost a full closure of the strut while closing the door. This strut is 9 in. long, 10.5 in over all and has the ball and socket joints with the balls at both ends. I got this strut from a local salvage yard and have no idea what it came out of. I'm sure you can find the complete unit at an automotive supply shop if you don't have a salvage yard you can browse. The next picture is a close up of the bracket on the cross tube. It strut ball is mounted far enough into the plane so as not to interfere with the operation of the door. I put this on my door as occasionally I like to fly and always taxi with the door open. If the salvage yard had two of these struts I would have installed both of them. It has worked well for the past year or so so I guess the next thing to do is paint the brackets to make them look as if they belonged there. I'm far from a fortune teller but I do see another trip to the salvage yard for me in the near future. Removing the door is easy as there is a little metal clip that holds the socket of the strut over the ball. I just have to make sure to keep the clips with the strut. Clear as Mud?? Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of xfire > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:55 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors > > > > > [quote="Float Flyr"]I put one on the pilot side without > drilling any holes.... I'll send a couple of pictures tomorrow. > > > > Noel > > > > -- > > > Noel, can you please send the pics to me also > > Thanks > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=107902#107902 > > > ========= > Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ========= > bsp; available href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > ========= > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 4/19/2007 5:56 PM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:45 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors Some guys have strutted the doors from the front the hose clamps would have to be placed through between the glass and the frame. Because the installation isn't permanent you can move from front to back in a few minutes. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GONER752@aol.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors Noel, Thanks for posting the pic's. I've been wanting to strut the doors, but really couldn't imagine any mounts pop riveted to tubing lasting against the forces of the struts.Good job.These are keepers for me. Greg G 375KL Mod 2 582 _____ See what's free at AOL.com . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:28 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: cabin doors At 04:57 AM 4/21/2007, you wrote: >My classic 4 came with the strut mounts as part of the kit but I did >not know it was safe to open the doors in flight. Do a lot of >people open them in flight or just leave them open when taking off. I open mine in flight. I don't like distractions during takeoff. I have the struts aft so they vibrate a little when open above 65 mph. They are bubble doors and generate quite a bit of lift. You have to be careful opening them lest they rip out of your hands and you have to pull hard to close them. It's a great view, though! Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:28 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Classic IV wing modsClassic IV wing mods At 08:39 PM 4/20/2007, you wrote: >Are there any special tricks to removing the wings, or is it just >finding enough people to hold it up while I remove the bolts. I used a 6' step ladder to support the outboard end. I then disconnected the lower strut bolt and half pulled the upper spar === message truncated == --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:10 PM PST US From: Norm Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox With A Vair Update After only three short flights of 10, 19; and 6 minutes my Fox has been grounded while I replaced the oil cooler, (replaced the eight row with a twelve row) and modified the plenum around the oil cooler. I also redesigned the intake runners to the manifolds. On 4/18 I had a great flight of 50 minutes. I could have gone longer however the ground crew thought I was having entirely to much fun for one day. I didn't note the VSI on take off. Best AS was 90 mph 3170 rpms MAP 25.1. I need to get to 3400 rpms to get about 100 hp. The oil temp. is still higher then I want it to be ( 238-248) so I need to clean up the air passage way to improve cooling. I throttled back to 2550 rpms MAP 17.5 and the AS was 70 mph. I have a few pounds I can lose, (both from the plane and myself) that might help the speed a bit. I'm not planning on entering any races however. Still no pictures, the photographer wasn't around that day. Later, Norm ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:25 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: My "Florida" trip...off topic From: "wingnut" You understand that I wasn't taping myself? Check out the web site I posted (www.liveatc.com). You can listen to live ATC from dozens of airports around the world being streamed over the Internet. You can even download archived broadcasts. It's some of those archived broadcasts that I burned to a CD. Nothing like hearing the pros do it. > Haven't heard from you for awhile...thanks for responding. > The readback first and tail number last seems better to me too. Good > idea on the taped/CD'd clips. Maybe I'll tape myself making calls > until they become second nature. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108555#108555 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:06 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox With A Vair Update Norm: That's a lot of direct drive RPM's for 90 MPH! What kind of prop are you running on your Kitfox/Corvair and what is the pitch set to? Is it safe to say that you are running a very low pitch?(hence the low top end)? John From: Norm Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox With A Vair Update After only three short flights of 10, 19; and 6 minutes my Fox has been grounded while I replaced the oil cooler, (replaced the eight row with a twelve row) and modified the plenum around the oil cooler. I also redesigned the intake runners to the manifolds. On 4/18 I had a great flight of 50 minutes. I could have gone longer however the ground crew thought I was having entirely to much fun for one day. I didn't note the VSI on take off. Best AS was 90 mph 3170 rpms MAP 25.1. I need to get to 3400 rpms to get about 100 hp. The oil temp. is still higher then I want it to be ( 238-248) so I need to clean up the air passage way to improve cooling. I throttled back to 2550 rpms MAP 17.5 and the AS was 70 mph. I have a few pounds I can lose, (both from the plane and myself) that might help the speed a bit. I'm not planning on entering any races however. Still no pictures, the photographer wasn't around that day. Later, Norm ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:32 PM PST US From: John Allen Subject: Kitfox-List: "Florida" Trip Re Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: My "Florida" trip Pilotage Radio Use Turbulence Crosswinds Some thoughts: A pilot is supposed to access "all information" before flight. Of course by the time you are done, you have to start over due to conditions becoming stale during the time lapse. All joking aside, there are some important things to check. That includes weather conditions, your route, prohibited airspace, alternatives, and the condition of the aircraft, including making sure parts like seats are properly fastened (like pilot seats on many Cessnas that can slide back upon takeoff). Remember, the pilot in command usually is assigned the blame. Many of us who started flying before GPS, and without radios, learned pilotage. Still good to know. You can find landmarks almost anywhere, can determine your heading and groundspeed and make compass corrections (if those were not calculated on preflight or differ due to changed conditions or a wrong forecast). Other options besides GPS are vectors from ATC, or intersecting readings from two VOR's. One should be able to determine and hold a proper compass heading over featureless terrain. Radio use is just like landings, it takes practice. Like you, I liked to stay out of busy places and was not comfortable with radio use, because I learned and flew without ever using it much. But, it can be convenient to pass through certain airspace and usually you will not get reprimanded if your technique is not perfect. Visit an ATC facility sometime. If you fly into bad conditions, there is usually a real good option, better exercised earlier rather than later: the 180. Normally it is better where you came from and you can go back there. Proceeding is not worth dying for or breaking up an airplane, although people do both in T-storms or severe weather conditions of some type that, often, they could have flown away from. The longer you continue into the bad conditions, the more restricted your options usually become. If you arrive someplace that has a crosswind beyond the plane's (or pilot's) limitations and have to land soon, you may have a couple of alternatives to potential damage from a beyond-limits crosswind landing. If you have an AFD or GPS (and it is not too bumpy to read it and you know where you are) you may be able to find a strip with more favorable runways. Another option some pilots have used in a strong crosswing is to land across the runway/taxiway or on the ramp, depending upon the facilities and conditions, as the rollout should be short. After landing, you may need to let the plane weathervane and get help walking the wings in and tying down to avoid blowing over on taxi. Being closer in is an advantage for that. Some runways have sheltered areas on the runway due to terrain or buildings. You can look for clues or drag the runway first, but watch for windshear in the transition. __________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.