---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/25/07: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:13 AM - Re: Trim failure (avtar412) 2. 04:13 AM - Re: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints (fox5flyer) 3. 05:13 AM - Re: Irons for covering (Noel Loveys) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints () 5. 09:21 AM - Re: Trim failure (n85ae) 6. 09:29 AM - Re: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints (Noel Loveys) 7. 12:00 PM - Re: Infrared temp measurements for Irons for covering (A Smith) 8. 03:18 PM - Re: Irons for covering (Dave G.) 9. 07:36 PM - Re: Irons for covering (kurt schrader) 10. 07:38 PM - Re: Irons for covering (dpremgood@aol.com) 11. 09:11 PM - alcoholic gas tanks () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:52 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trim failure From: "avtar412" Comutator was all oily, must have been from the bearing. Cleaned it up with contact cleaner and worked well today for 1.7 hrs. ~john a~ NZ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109125#109125 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:32 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints Guy, back when I had my 582 I had a similar problem. Using anti seize just made a big mess as the stuff blew all over everything. I finally got fed up with it, pulled the two units off, and worked the two parts together with valve grinding compound for about 30 minutes. I kept at it until I was sure I was getting full contact on the two parts. Then I applied a thin coat of anti seize. After that it was much better but not perfect, something I'm not sure you'll ever achieve with that sort of setup. Deke Morisse K5/Soob/CAP NE Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:48 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints > > At 05:55 PM 4/24/2007, you wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, what makes you think they are not sealing > > good enough? > > I tore the exhaust system apart today to have it re-coated and found > the manifold / elbow joint had two areas that were clearly blowing. > They had yellow deposits, (the same as inside the manifold,) running > through the joint. I did a lot of work today and improved the mating > significantly, but would like it to seal, if possible. > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:59 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Irons for covering Thanks Lowell I've never had a problem with the cloth pulling too tight Except once when I used a fairly heavy cloth on a rudder...I cant remember the weight off hand. The wax is so easy to wipe off the face of the iron there is no residue left. I do have to be careful not to allow it to get into the steam vents though. Fish eye has never been a problem with any of the finishes I've used. What is a problem here though is our damp climate. You have to wait for a warm dry day for a lot of the finishes or you will get blushing. A good cold winter day with a hot wood fire also works but you are up all night keeping the fire burning. Noel Loveys, RPP Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA Aerocet 1100s noelloveys@yahoo.ca > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Lowell Fitt > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:37 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Irons for covering > > > > > Noel, I just ordered an infrared thermometer and it claims > 1% accuracy. It > is a recognized mane brand unit and think the claims are valid. > > Your mention of the temps you test for makes me wonder if you > have seen the > Poly Fiber manual. It recommends calibrating at 200, > 225,250 and 350. > There are procedures at each of these temps in the covering > process. My 912 > manual calls for a maximum shrink temp of 300, this, I > understand is due to > the light weight structure that can deform with the 350 max > Polyfiber > recommends. > > I understand the wax concept as it is similar to the cones > that jewelry > manufacturers use to calibrate their furnaces, but I would be a bit > concerned about wax residue on the fabric. It could cause > fish eye in the > final finish. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Noel Loveys" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Irons for covering > > > The Iron I use is a Proctor Silex. I can get a pretty > accurate 350F with > it. I don't use a thermometer. They can be hard to calibrate. Even > testing using boiling water is not as reliable as you may > expect. Water > seldom, if ever, boils at 212F. Altitude and low pressure > areas can have a > pretty good boil going on at temperatures below 180F or as > high as 220F. > They say you can't cook an egg or make a good cup of tea in > the Rockies for > that reason. > > I think if I was to use a thermometer I would use a glass > candy thermometer. > The accuracy of these thermometers should be very high. > Remember to cushion > the thermometer in several layers of newsprint paper... After > all they are > glass. The down side is it will take several minutes to make > a reading and > then you will want to calibrate your iron to make resets a bit faster. > > I don't use a thermometer. I use a special wax sticks. A > throw back to > then I used to set the thermal back printing decks on photo paper > processors. There are several wax sticks which melt at various exact > temperatures and the ones marked 300F and 350F get regular > usage. Once the > 300 wax stick melts and the 350F stick barely melts I'm > there. The melted > wax wipes off easily, makes checking the temp easy and as a > bonus the wax > cleans the face of the iron. I can even tell the hot and > cool parts of the > iron's surface. > > I am, however, wondering if any one is using a laser > thermometer and if so > how is the accuracy. I think that may be an accurate > alternative to the old > candy thermometer. > > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jerry evans > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:46 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Irons for covering > > > I'm in the covering stage on my kitfox 2 with the Stitts > Dacron 1.7 oz. and > I'm having trouble finding the right Iron, the first one only > went up to 325 > took it back the next one a black and Decker goes from > 223 to 253 and > 331 to 355 at one setting is there a good one out there I can > calibrate > closer or is it necessary I have a digital deep fryer > thermometer seem to > be accurate in boiling water. Anyone know? > > Jerry Evans > kitfox 555 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:11 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints Deke and Guy , That sounds like a good solution. I must be lucky as I use never-seize and really once it sets -sort of- it is fine. I know if the ball and socket do not seat properly they will leak. I have fixed them before on sleds with a 75% success rate but if they do not fit perfect you might be better to get new parts That being said, perhaps a new elbow would help -they run about 150$ from Rotax. Y pipe and muffler each are more. Is it possible that the mating surfaces are dented, out of round not seating ? Also is there exhaust leakage or oil drips ? I find that the Exhaust Manifold Gaskets will make more of a mess if your cylinders were not aligned or manifold it not true to cylinders. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "fox5flyer" Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints > > Guy, back when I had my 582 I had a similar problem. Using anti seize > just > made a big mess as the stuff blew all over everything. I finally got fed > up > with it, pulled the two units off, and worked the two parts together with > valve grinding compound for about 30 minutes. I kept at it until I was > sure > I was getting full contact on the two parts. Then I applied a thin coat > of > anti seize. After that it was much better but not perfect, something I'm > not sure you'll ever achieve with that sort of setup. > Deke Morisse > K5/Soob/CAP > NE Michigan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Guy Buchanan" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:48 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints > > >> >> At 05:55 PM 4/24/2007, you wrote: >> > Just out of curiosity, what makes you think they are not sealing >> > good enough? >> >> I tore the exhaust system apart today to have it re-coated and found >> the manifold / elbow joint had two areas that were clearly blowing. >> They had yellow deposits, (the same as inside the manifold,) running >> through the joint. I did a lot of work today and improved the mating >> significantly, but would like it to seal, if possible. >> >> >> Guy Buchanan >> San Diego, CA >> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:00 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trim failure From: "n85ae" Probably should be part done as a regular maintenance item. Not sure the frequency. Probably after some number of hours operation. Mine gummed up about 50 hours old. I bench ran the motor for an hour to seat the brushes and recleaned it after that also. Regards, Jeff Hays Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109185#109185 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:45 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints Just as an idea... I haven't had to do this. When you put your joint together use the "Never-Sieze" and then pack the joint with fibre glass chord that they use for sealing the doors on wood stoves. This stuff looks like woven rope but is mad of fibre glass if nothing else it should keep the "Never-Sieze" from making too much of a mess on your engine. Ships for hundreds of years used a similar device called oakum to keep the ocean out... Think of the chord as oakum for your exhaust. It might just work for you and the stuff is CHEAP, which is why I would give it a try. Noel Loveys, RPP Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA Aerocet 1100s noelloveys@yahoo.ca > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > davef@cfisher.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:21 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints > > > > Deke and Guy , > > That sounds like a good solution. I must be lucky as I use > never-seize and > really once it sets -sort of- it is fine. I know if the > ball and socket do > not seat properly they will leak. I have fixed them before > on sleds with a > 75% success rate but if they do not fit perfect you might > be better to get > new parts That being said, perhaps a new elbow would help > -they run about > 150$ from Rotax. Y pipe and muffler each are more. > Is it possible that the mating surfaces are dented, out of > round not seating > ? > > Also is there exhaust leakage or oil drips ? I find that the Exhaust > Manifold Gaskets will make more of a mess if your cylinders > were not aligned > or manifold it not true to cylinders. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "fox5flyer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:08 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints > > > > > > > Guy, back when I had my 582 I had a similar problem. Using > anti seize > > just > > made a big mess as the stuff blew all over everything. I > finally got fed > > up > > with it, pulled the two units off, and worked the two parts > together with > > valve grinding compound for about 30 minutes. I kept at it > until I was > > sure > > I was getting full contact on the two parts. Then I > applied a thin coat > > of > > anti seize. After that it was much better but not perfect, > something I'm > > not sure you'll ever achieve with that sort of setup. > > Deke Morisse > > K5/Soob/CAP > > NE Michigan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Guy Buchanan" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:48 PM > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust Ball Joints > > > > > >> > >> At 05:55 PM 4/24/2007, you wrote: > >> > Just out of curiosity, what makes you think they are > not sealing > >> > good enough? > >> > >> I tore the exhaust system apart today to have it re-coated > and found > >> the manifold / elbow joint had two areas that were clearly blowing. > >> They had yellow deposits, (the same as inside the > manifold,) running > >> through the joint. I did a lot of work today and improved > the mating > >> significantly, but would like it to seal, if possible. > >> > >> > >> Guy Buchanan > >> San Diego, CA > >> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:29 PM PST US From: "A Smith" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Infrared temp measurements for Irons for covering Spray on antipersperant will work on the iron also. For the most part IR equipment was built to lie to us. I do some IR photography for my work. I also got very good results with a candy thermometer. I used white heat sink compound, (a lot) around the bulb. Made sure the bulb was in contact with the iron. I sat all this on several dishtowls to insulate it. When I covered I used 5 irons. Size, shape ect. It was a little time consuming but worth it. Never had problems. Yes covering will colapse structures. Buddy folded his wing on his Challenger. Albert ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:39 PM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Irons for covering I have a Black and Decker iron I stole from the missus. (she bought a new one). I have an infrared thermometer and one of the open coil coverite ones and a glass thermometer from way back in the days of prohibition, They all read roughly the same. The iron drifts up and down about 10 deg. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:12 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Irons for covering After fooling with 2 irons for a bit, I bought a hobby shop tacking iron that guarantees within 3% accuracy. It was about $30 and has lights on it that tell you when it is up to temperature and flash if it falls out of the 3% range. I found it quite accurate, but you must go slowly, or it will not be able to keep up the heat. Great in the corners though. I used this almost entirely using N-S-E-W passes to ensure even temps. One day I caught the cord and knocked it down. When I plugged it in to begin work, the thing melted down! It worked fine on planes but wasnt up to being Marined..... Breaking things is part of a Marines job after all. Kurt Schrader S'5 NSI turbo and CAP 140 prop Florida and Panama City Panama Shameless ad, trying to develop an airport reirement community down here in Panama..... __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Irons for covering From: dpremgood@aol.com Jerry, I used a Black and Decker household iron (I forget the model No.) with a manual thermostat. I bought a 'MiniTemp' infrared temperature sensor to calibrate the iron. The beauty of this thing is that it takes a second to see what the temperature of the iron is. One can also see the temperature variation in the iron instantaneously. I strongly suggest reading the Polyfiber Manual THUROUGHLY before beginning your covering process. Regards, Doug Remoundos Classic IV Montreal, Canada -----Original Message----- From: kitfox555@sbcglobal.net Sent: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:15 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Irons for covering I'm in the covering stage on my kitfox 2 with theStitts Dacron 1.7 oz.and I'm having trouble finding the right Iron, the first one only went up to 325 took it back the next one a black and Decker goes from 223 to 253 and 331 to 355 at one setting is there a good one out there I can calibrate closer or is it necessary I have a digital deep fryer thermometerseem to be accurate in boiling water. Anyone know? Jerry Evans kitfox 555 [Image Removed] ________________________________________________________________________ from AOL at AOL.com. =0 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:03 PM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: alcoholic gas tanks Hey gang, I'm one of the new guys. I'm taking the bold action of installing Steve Winder's crosslinked poly gas tanks into my Kitfox Seven to avoid the evils of alcoholic gas tank degeneration (if it really exists). I've received the plastic tanks and cut the old fiberglass tanks out of my wing. Wasn't near as bad as I had anticipated. "Airedale" Steve has been very helpful. He does respond to e-mail. The new tanks look very good. Anyway, within the next few days I hope to install the tanks into one wing and will be able to give ground level info if anyone is interested. Cost per wing $500. There's more info @ WingTanks.com than was originally posted there. Have really enjoyed the dialogue here on the list. John Sandt / Kitfox 7 Builder / Tri-gear / Corvair / Ridgecrest, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.